[Jeff_in_Dayton]

Since some were asking about new single family housing developments I really really tried to look for some examples, focusing on a fast growing county beyond the hill country you see in those Frankfurt and Rosbach pix

....heading into the once-backwoods areas beyond the hills in the backround of this skyline....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/EURO%20spawl/EUS.jpg


....I took a look at Neu-Anspach.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp1.jpg

This is one of those merged municipalities I mentioned in that other thread, where a collection of villages where combined into a new commune. This one includes Anspach (the “old “ Anspach), Rod am Berg (to the left of the pix) and Hausen.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp2.jpg


A view from the ground, over some new development (including a little high rise) toward Rod am Berg, which itself is growing outward. This area is gaining population at over 15% to 20%, over a 10-15 year period.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp3.jpg


To give you some scale, I noted the original village cores in yellow, so you can seen the impressive growth of this area. What looks like a new single family housing area is in the big yellow circle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp4.jpg

A close-up of the circled area, showing how the Germans mix use and housing types. This development appears to be single family, with little cul-de-sacs at the end of the streets, but the cul-de-sacs open onto what appears to be a pedestrian or bikeway path system. And there is apparently attempt to reserve open space for greenways.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp5.jpg

Your hill country home in Neu-Anspach…..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp6.jpg

Here is an example of a duplex in the Neu-Anspach area. I really love those nice big windows the Germans have. A bit of lawn and some decorative landscaping sets it all off

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp7.jpg


And an example of a single family home, being offered by a local real estate agent (you buy, they build). This place is around 9085 SF, asking $522,596 USD, which apparently includes the lot

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp8.jpg


The floor plans are in German, but I think you can figure them out. Note the generous bathroom space….

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp9.jpg

Shovel ready lot at the edge of town

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp10.jpg

But I think multifamily is pretty common there too…these rowhouses are probably big inside, but pretty dismal outside

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp11.jpg

An old pix of the train station (probably the 50s or early 60s). Note the “Schienenbus”, or rail-bus, waiting on the siding. This was the German Federal Railroads old local passenger/commuter equipment for rural areas .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp12.jpg

Modern commuter service, which runs into downtown Frankfurt only during the rush hour (this is somewhere to the south of Neu Anspach: Frankfurt’s more intensely developed suburbia is beyond the hills in the distance, which are a nature preserve of sorts)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Taunusbahn_Wehrheim.jpg/800px-Taunusbahn_Wehrheim.jpg


A look at the industrial/commercial district from the air…they use inventor and industrialist names for the streets…Bosch, Diesel, etc, located close to a train station.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp13.jpg

And, again, some good land use planning, reserving environmentally sensitive corridors for greenways, provision of a path system, and also, in this case, and keeping open space between villages as routes for new highways.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp14.jpg


@@@@@@@@@


And another quick example, showing how a rural village grows to accommodate increasing population, in this case multifamily, but also lots of greenspace, too. This is Steinfurth, probably 20-30 KM north of Frankfurt, outside of the commuter rail net, but it probably does have bus service. I think you are pretty much at the edge of exurbia here....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Jeff59c/quickies/asp15.jpg

…the red outlined area is the prewar village core, with new development climbing the hills beyond

http://www.steinfurth-online.de/bilder/Steinfurth/aa-aktansi/10.jpg

http://www.steinfurth-online.de/bilder/Steinfurth/aa-aktansi/11.jpg
(rose covered cottages as this town is a big rose-growing center)

And Steinfurth’s most famous American visitor: Elvis Presley doing some civil works stuff on a war memorial

http://www.elvisforever.de/steinfurth.jpg

[Chicago103]

It still looks alot better than American exurbia, at least a brain is used in the land use planning of it all. The floor plans of that house still look quite modest and the house is small compared to many american exurban houses, sure there is a large bathroom but instead of it being a "master bath" attached to the master bedroom it seems all three bedrooms share that bath and only a half bath downstairs.

What I like is that they incorporate commuter trains, mixed use in housing and pedestrian and bike access in the construction, cul-de-sacs that restrict cars but not pedestrians and bikes. I guess what I like about it is that these Germans dont see things in black and white, they understand you can have your suburban yard and house but still not have everything centered around the car and not everything need be about isolation and privacy. These neighborhoods are the equivalent of suburban/exurban lite "new urbanist" developments in suburban areas of the US, and many of them would count as TOD's which is the exception and not the rule for US equivalent developments this far from the central city center. I cant say living this way would be my cup of tea but at least its not wastefull and completly isolated, detached and auto-centric like the american norm.

[Minato Ku]

Paris like the other city of its size is pretty sprawl

Freeway and motorway maps (The municpality of Paris is in the first ring but the city is larger)
http://mapage.noos.fr/marla13/paris_transport/carte5.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4533/coreofparisur8.jpg
limite de departement : departments border
Ceinture vert : green belt
Parc naturel regional : Regional natural reserve
Coeur d'agglomeration : core of urban area (real city)
agglomeration central : the rest of urban area (real suburbs)
autres agglomerations : other urban areas (Include in Paris of Metro area)
espace rural : rural area

Core of urban area
6,718,400 inhabitants (2005)
728 km²
9,229 inh/km²

Urban area
10.2 million inhabitants (2005)
2,723 km²
3,700 inh/km²

[sprtsluvr8]

It still looks alot better than American exurbia, at least a brain is used in the land use planning of it all. The floor plans of that house still look quite modest and the house is small compared to many american exurban houses, sure there is a large bathroom but instead of it being a "master bath" attached to the master bedroom it seems all three bedrooms share that bath and only a half bath downstairs.


What is positive about everyone sharing a bath? When I lived in London it took me forever to find a flat with a private bathroom that was under 1,000 pounds/month. I'm all for everyone having their own bathroom! I don't see that as a good thing.

[Jeff_in_Dayton]

Good grief, Paris is HUGE. Interesting to see those older built up areas so extensive outside the ring road where the old fortifications where.

I'm thinking these village-suburbs Im posting would be equivilant to the autres agglomerations...

[villelumiere]

Good grief, Paris is HUGE. Interesting to see those older built up areas so extensive outside the ring road where the old fortifications where.

I'm thinking these village-suburbs Im posting would be equivilant to the autres agglomerations...


I first went to live there in 1989. Like all people I expected it to be pretty and Montmartrish and Springtime in Paris etc and it was. However it was/is also absolutely massive. It is almost counter intuitive to imagine a city so spellbindlingly attractive can also be so big. One doesn't go together with the other if you see my point.

My other counter intuitive experience was chicago. I was an adult before becoming in any way familiar with US cities. I expected Chicago downtown to be a miniature version of Downtown Manhattan. Man alive what a surprise when I actually saw it.

[Chicago103]

What is positive about everyone sharing a bath? When I lived in London it took me forever to find a flat with a private bathroom that was under 1,000 pounds/month. I'm all for everyone having their own bathroom! I don't see that as a good thing.

Those are two very different things, you are refering to a basically SRO/YMCA setting where multiple units share a bathroom. I was refering to a single family house (one unit) where there are fewer bathrooms then bedrooms based on the assumption that you would either be living with family or someone close. Bathrooms in a house are private bathrooms because noone outside of your house has access to it regardless of the person-bathroom ratio of those living in the house.

[sprtsluvr8]

Those are two very different things, you are refering to a basically SRO/YMCA setting where multiple units share a bathroom. I was refering to a single family house (one unit) where there are fewer bathrooms then bedrooms based on the assumption that you would either be living with family or someone close. Bathrooms in a house are private bathrooms because noone outside of your house has access to it regardless of the person-bathroom ratio of those living in the house.

Right, I understand...I was presenting a cultural difference between the U.S. and much of Europe which is extreme to us but common in the Isles (and you didn't say "less bathrooms than bedrooms", you said there is "sure there is A large bathroom").

But even in a private residence...what is wrong with a family of 4 having one bathroom for Mom and Dad, one for Junior and one for little Christina? It sucks having to even just share one with your sister...that was my burden until college. Bathrooms generally don't add a lot of square footage to a house unless they are Joan Crawford-sized, so I believe in a goodly number of them. Let the people have their Johns!:rant:

[Nexus6]

Right, I understand...I was presenting a cultural difference between the U.S. and much of Europe which is extreme to us but common in the Isles

In Germany it is not common at all to have a shared bathroom between apartments. However, within an apartment or a single home you usually have not more than 1-2 bathrooms. 2 bathrooms is probably the average (a small one for guests, a larger one for the family). If the home has 3 floors than it its not uncommon though to have 1 bathroom on each floor which would be 3 in total.


what is wrong with a family of 4 having one bathroom for Mom and Dad, one for Junior and one for little Christina?

Population density. Germany for instance has suffered several severe famines in the 20th century with millions of deaths. And with Germany's agrarian hinterland now in Polish and Russian hands every square meter of land has to be put to efficient use.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/World_population_density_map.PNG/800px-World_population_density_map.PNG

[rockyi]

.....and not everything need be about isolation and privacy.

Isolation? I just find it funny that you post this statement while enclosed in your apartment 1000 ft above the streets. (aren't those fixed windows in the Hancock?)
Just curious, how often do you have long chats with your neighbors?

[sapphireblueeyes]

delete

[Chicago103]

Isolation? I just find it funny that you post this statement while enclosed in your apartment 1000 ft above the streets. (aren't those fixed windows in the Hancock?)
Just curious, how often do you have long chats with your neighbors?


I am talking isolation in relation to the neighborhood and its context within the city/area. I don't have long chats with my neighbors but thats not because of me, me and my roommate are home more than anyone else on the 91st floor, our neighbor is a celebrity (Jerry Springer) and we run into him every now and then but opportunities for conversation are rare unless we happen to be coming and going at the same time. We know a few other people on our floor but overall yes it can be rather quiet at times. However whenever we leave our building we are in the center of activity for the entire city and even if we don't leave the building there are communal areas on the 44th floor where we run into people we know. I would say there is more sense of community on the lower floors (45-64) than higher up because there are more units per floor, we used to live on 50 and there were alot more people around, even something as mundane as the number of people who use the laundry room, on 91 the laundry room seems small and lonely, keep in mind though there are only 8 units on 91 whereas on 50 there were 24 units.

My point is at least I have the chance to interact with other people without using a car, for me its as simple as an elevator ride, in some isolated exurbs there literally is no true communal space for miles. Where I live might be micro-isolation by circumstance in relation to my floor but in the exurbs there is micro and macro isolation by design.

[YRB]

It sucks having to even just share one with your sister...that was my burden until college.
Why? I honestly don't understand. (I'm not an American)

[Xelebes]

Right, I understand...I was presenting a cultural difference between the U.S. and much of Europe which is extreme to us but common in the Isles (and you didn't say "less bathrooms than bedrooms", you said there is "sure there is A large bathroom").

But even in a private residence...what is wrong with a family of 4 having one bathroom for Mom and Dad, one for Junior and one for little Christina? It sucks having to even just share one with your sister...that was my burden until college. Bathrooms generally don't add a lot of square footage to a house unless they are Joan Crawford-sized, so I believe in a goodly number of them. Let the people have their Johns!:rant:

3 bathrooms, to me, sounds like overkill to me. I don't see a use for more than 2 bathrooms. Mind you, I come from a family of 8, not 4.