[Waders]

It is quite unfortunate that the hospice project faced so many oppositions. :(

And in a democratic society, people can use all kinds of reasons, no matter how "strange" that may sound. A hospice would affect "proper student life"? :koko: Shouldn't student spend time to study?

The proposed location of the hospice has been shuffled around eight potential sites around UBC over the past two years.

Two of the proposed locations near Place Vanier and St. John's College, both student residences, was met with opposition from students in 2009. Students believed that the construction of a hospice nearby would infringe on students' rights to a "proper student life," according to a Facebook page called "Building a Hospice Near Vanier hurts UBC Students".

Source: http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/thescene/2011/01/13/st-johns-hospice-cant-find-its-roots-ubc

[SpikePhanta]

Maybe the citizens of the building have a huge late night chinese new year party to show that the location isnt fit because it would be too loud for the hospice.


(im not serious.)

[invisibleairwaves]

Not to defend the students, but everyone knows that student residences and partying go hand-in-hand, and placing the hospice next to that wouldn't have been good for the hospice's users. At least that move was made with some degree of practicality attached to it, rather than moronic superstition. The students come across as being just as selfish as the condo owners though.

Surely they can find a location somewhere on UBC's gigantic chunk of land that won't piss someone off?

[zivan56]

If I may try and read too much into your post, you don't seem to be seeking to change an opinion, influence, or even convince anyone. You're just throwing down an ultimatum, and gambling for submission for fear of an unruly mob.

People are people, if you think any one group is too different then it's because your group and their groups haven't spent enough time around each other.

Take the race out of it, and how is this different than any other resident/NIMBY vs developer article?

and if this incident is truly rooted in a cultural belief, then it's a great thing we're hearing about it in the news. The earlier the better, the smaller the conflict the better. Presuming these beliefs are seen as a problem by normal people, then we have identified a specific group to educate and engage about the norm here with a relevant specific topic to discuss.

I think you are reading way too much into it and putting words in my mouth.

"gambling for submission for fear of an unruly mob."

In English, please? Where did I mention an ultimatum?

What does race have to do with this? Where did I mention this?

I agree they need to be educated.

You conveniently left out most of my post BTW. Please either refer to my whole post, or I will assume you agree with the rest of it.



Anyways, building it near students would be horrible for the people living in the hospice due to the noise. It really needs to be in a quiet residential area with transit service nearby.

[golog]

In an article about the Metro Vancouver regional plan, they mentioned UBC lobbied to be designated as a regional centre but the final draft only called them a 'centre'... sounded very political, and might have had something to do with Skytrain to UBC vs Skytrain to Surrey

[Zassk]

^ Agreed, sounds like denial on the part of Metro... not sure what their issue is with UEL becoming a population centre... is it because UEL is unincorporated?

[Nutterbug]

I can understand the thinking and feeling of the concerned residents, not necessary agree with their approach.
Not sure how immigration policy got into the argument.

Each culture has its own belief about "good" and "bad".
Asian people, especially Chinese, has extremely strong belief about life and death. That's why they don't like to talk about "death" or even "sickness".
You can call the current UEL issue "bad luck", "bad Feng Shui or just "culture superstitions', but development planners need to pay more attention and sensitivity to this type of thing in a multculture society. There is a lot of "taboo" in different cultures.

If you look up the definition of "feng shui" in Wikipedia,



In layman's terms, I don't think seeing all the sick / dying people would made one feel happy. The long term psychological effect is impact to one's health.

I know this type of objections happened a lot in China, even in Hong Kong. Government usually would listen and either modify, cancel the development plan or change the location.
As Canada society becomes more and more multicultural, this type of argument will be more common.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

If you move to a new country or community, are you supposed to adapt to it, or are they supposed to adapt to you?

[Nutterbug]

Anyways, a SUCCESS spokesman clears the air and sets the record straight that it's all about selfish NIMBY assholes and not about Chinese culture:

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Asian+community+fears+being+tainted+protesters+Chan+says/4118115/story.html

[nova9]

Anyways, a SUCCESS spokesman clears the air and sets the record straight that it's all about selfish NIMBY assholes and not about Chinese culture:

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Asian+community+fears+being+tainted+protesters+Chan+says/4118115/story.html

so that's great that everyone got to take a dig at the chinese community and then let it go because, oh, it turns out it had nothing to do with race. perfect.

(that's not directed at you)

I called NIMBYism from the get-go, I just couldn't get a loud enough voice to shout over the racial remarks.

[Waders]

That's why I said the condo residents used the wrong strategy.
Using the "culture difference" card only managed to stir up controversy.
It would have been more convincing to follow student's approach and use the "proper resident life" card.
Anyway all these reasons are just excuse for NIMBYism.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I don't really see how proper resident life would be a good argument either. That end of campus is like a ghost town anyways. ;) That area has been fought over as a quiet area of campus for the last decade, and a hospice would be an ideally located in such a setting. Such facilities already occupy many quiet residential neighbourhoods across the GVRD.

Compared to right next to Place Vanier that location is pretty ideal. Student culture is under a fair bit of duress already; while people may look down on its alcoholism and other "colour" it's a perfectly legitimate culture for that area of the city. Very few accommodations would be made regarding late noise and the like due to the fact that students already are starting to feel hemmed in by the residential development on campus and due to increased scrutiny by the RCMP.

I can't help but think that residential in this area has been more trouble than it's been worth. First there were noise complaints due to Arts County Fair and the outdoor concerts at Thunderbird Stadium which ultimately resulted in residents asking for the stadium to be moved. Now this. :shrug:

[SFUVancouver]

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2010/vch2010_1308.jpg
Source (http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2010/vch2010_1308.jpg)

How much do you want to bet this will show up in advertising materials for a future development project?

[hollywoodnorth]

UBC launches green energy project
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/02/26/bc-ubc-biomass.html

[SFUVancouver]

^ That was exactly what the City was originally proposing for the neighbourhood energy utility for Southeast False Creek before some nutters in the False Creek Resident's Association got it into their heads that the thing would require a giant smokestack that would beltch black smoke and soot. I saw one of their 'information' stations on the Seawall one day and it featured a photo of the sugar cane refinery in Maui, which is an immense rusted out hulk shooting black smoke into the sky. We had a good discussion/argument about the issue and my point that they were being deceitful was acknowledged. They countered that the number of trucks that would be required to haul in wood pellets and haul away "smouldering ash" would "drive up local pollution levels, endanger children and public safety, and ruin property values". So, I would expect these people to be equally up in arms about UBC's plan to run those death machine wood chip trucks through the city en route to the university campus.

For what it's worth, too, the emissions profile of natural gas, which is what is burned at the SEFC NEU to top up the heating levels for the NEU's hotwater system, is only GHG friendly when you look at point source pollution. Natural gas' emissions profile at the point of combustion only represents the gas that made it from the well to the burner and not the staggering amount that is leaked or flared along the way. I recall reading in a Terasan document, which I haven't had in my possesion for years, that about 90% of natural gas' emissions come prior to combustion, which is why they are confident that they have the ability to dramatically lower the emissions profile of the fuel through reduced flaring, better leak management, and a shorter time between refining and combustion.

Anyway, good for UBC.

[allan_kuan]

In that case... would a train hauling in waste wood chips be better? Instead of several engines hauling wood there's just one or two powerful ones instead.

Unfortunately, UBC does not have a branch freight line, so that's more of a fantasy for now.

[jsbertram]

In that case... would a train hauling in waste wood chips be better? Instead of several engines hauling wood there's just one or two powerful ones instead.

Unfortunately, UBC does not have a branch freight line, so that's more of a fantasy for now.

However, they will have a SkyTrain line someday from Commercial/Broadway.
By the time the UBC SkyTrain line is built, the original Skytrain cars can be converted into freight cars and the deliveries can be done overnight when the passenger service isn't running.

[SpikePhanta]

However, they will have a SkyTrain line someday from Commercial/Broadway.
By the time the UBC SkyTrain line is built, the original Skytrain cars can be converted into freight cars and the deliveries can be done overnight when the passenger service isn't running.

Thats a pretty cool idea actually, using skytrain lines for freight :tup:

[hollywoodnorth]

Thats a pretty cool idea actually, using skytrain lines for freight :tup:

old news / old idea / already being done

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarGoTram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram#Cargo_trams

[SpikePhanta]

Well then, i've been under a rock!

[Jebby]

Im curious, how much of pacific spirit park can be torn down for new developments. I used to live in UBC and I'm really sad theyve gotten rid d so much forest across from Hampton Place

[allan_kuan]

Actually I wonder... would it be more cost effective to have one of the two theoretical tubes of the Millennium Line extension to UBC larger to accommodate a standard freight car, and have a switch station beside VCC-Clark where the load gets transferred between CN / CP and the electric railway?

[dubsH]

I'm surprised at how much construction's still going on at UBC. There are two highrises (1 almost topping out, another in what appears to be excavation), and numerous low-rise buildings. There must be at least 6 or 7 cranes on campus.

[agrant]

Im curious, how much of pacific spirit park can be torn down for new developments. I used to live in UBC and I'm really sad theyve gotten rid d so much forest across from Hampton PlaceGood question. I remember when the park extended right up to Wesbrook Mall, both north and south of 16th. That whole Hampton Place area used to be trees not too long ago.

[jsbertram]

Actually I wonder... would it be more cost effective to have one of the two theoretical tubes of the Millennium Line extension to UBC larger to accommodate a standard freight car, and have a switch station beside VCC-Clark where the load gets transferred between CN / CP and the electric railway?

The problem is that the standard freight car still needs a locomotive (electric of course) to pull it (or them) around.

If you build only one tube large enough for standard railway cars, it could be used for both EB and WB freight traffic. If the freight traffic and passenger traffic in the tube are in the same direction (ie: to UBC), there might not be a problem. However, when the the freight traffic is 'wrong railing' (ie: from UBC) the tube will have to be cleared of passenger traffic while the standard railway cars are 'wrong railing' in the tube from UBC to False Creek Flats. If both EB and WB tubes are built to handle larger freight cars this becomes less of an issue.

However, the extra cost of building larger-diameter tubes to accommodate standard freight cars is likely to be greater than the cost of rebuilding rebuilding some of the end-of-life original Expo86 passenger cars as freight cars. By reusing the original Expo86 cars as freight cars, every car already has the LIM motors and automated controls needed to move it on the SkyTrain tracks without needing an operator. It may be possible to get by with only a dozen or so SkyTrain freight cars, and the rest of the original Expo86 cars can be retired (scrapped) at the end of their shelf life.

It may be possible to have a trans-shipping centre at UBC so the automated freight cars can come & go whenever they can be slotted in between the passenger trains. The trans-shipping centre would be a branch off the main SkyTrain line so the freight cars can be unloaded & loaded without interfering with the passenger car traffic. Because they are automated, when a freight car is ready to go, it can be sent over the SkyTrain line at any time of day (excepting the rush hours).

I should do some more thinking about this.

[allan_kuan]

Would it be possible to do shipping at night then?

The more I think about it though it seems like the most cost-effective method would be to use a trans-shipment station near VCC-Clark where the load gets transferred between the two different types of railway cars.

[jlousa]

Why bother with skytrain? Why not just barge the fuel to ubc and transport it the last mile by truck.

[allan_kuan]

The problem I see with that is how all the people at Wreck Beach would be complaining about the loss of privacy... and in addition I don't know how easy it is to build a new port facility on the coastline with the current environmental opposition.

EDIT: So I decided to find some measurements... The width and height of a Bombardier Mark I car is 2.5 M wide by 3.1 M high. I assume the Mark II car is slightly wider than that with a possible width of 2.75 M and a heigh of 3.25 M or something like that?

In comparison, the normal width of a car used for wood chip storage is 3.25 M wide by 4.86 M high.

Hmm... that's quite a significant difference. So a railway tunnel would have to be 0.5 M wider and 1.61 M higher... Best to stick with custom cars I guess then.

[squeezied]

This was posted in the Videography thread, but I think this deserves a repost here:

Dpp3quce1Vo

[trofirhen]

That's why I said the condo residents used the wrong strategy.
Using the "culture difference" card only managed to stir up controversy.
It would have been more convincing to follow student's approach and use the "proper resident life" card.
Anyway all these reasons are just excuse for NIMBYism.
:previous:

The "proper resident life card" ? Did you make that up, is it a snide joke, or does it really exist? I'd love to know more. Thank you. :)

[trofirhen]

old news / old idea / already being done

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarGoTram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram#Cargo_trams

:previous:
Thank you for these links. Looked at 'em and they both focus on Dresden, as it happens. But it looked reasonable enough, and "doable" enough to me.

But if you could elaborate, just what is being transported, where, and for what. For example, I don't get the wood-chips part.

[Alex Mackinnon]

This is a bizarre discussion in my opinion.

To make a bigger tunnel cross section would probably cost a few hundred million. The rails and all load bearing infrastructure would probably have to be upgraded to handle the potentially heavier rolling stock, or custom rolling stock would have to be made to deliver the wood chips without exceeding the axle loads on the tracks. The problem with nonstandard rolling stock is that you would need to rehandle the wood chips for the last 10km of delivery.

Then at UBC's end you would need a shunt line to wherever this bio energy plant is. I'll assume its near the student union building, say 500m. Another $40-$50 million.

At the VCC end you need either a tie in to the existing rail yard, or another shunt line with some form of silo to load the skytrain rolling stock. Say $20mil.

I don't think theres a remote chance of other companies wanting to use this service since all the branch lines in Vancouver seem to be in some state of dying. They would also need custom rolling stock, and the cost of making a branch to use this service.

So we've taken a $20mil generating station and added $60-160mil on to the price tag... to replace a truck or two of wood chips every day?

I've been fairly conservative with my guesses and they are just guesses. But honestly, that could buy enough wind turbines to produce 30MW of peak load or about 6MW of averaged load or a hell of a lot of geothermal heating pipes and a few wind turbines to offset your local electrical load. Or heck, just make some trolley bus frankenstein of a hopper truck. $3mil, tops.

/rant over

[allan_kuan]

well it was just following the green discussion and how to address the slightly less environmentally method that they'll pick that'll look out of place with the sort of infrastructure that they're building...

[entheosfog]

I don't usually follow this thread so I'm a little unaware of what this is going to be but it's located at Wesbrook and Agronomy:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3158/dscn2014h.jpg

[djun]

That's the new UBC Pharmaceutical Sciences building.

A picture of what it will look like in 2012 from the Ubyssey site:

http://ubyssey.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Pharmacy.jpg

[hollywoodnorth]

thanks for the pics and render :) nice looking building for sure

[allan_kuan]

Hmm interesting. Looks unusual to say the least. I guess the necessity to enclose the building entirely is to make it secure and protect the drugs and other substances from sunlight and other environmental variables?

[officedweller]

Looks like Library Square with a building within a building.
You wouldn't think that that much screening would be required.
Laboratory buildings on campus usually have half height windows - so that's normally sufficient to allow temperature control.

[Zassk]

The facade matches many of the older buildings in the medical section of the campus.

I doubt the motivation is any more complicated than that.

[entheosfog]

Sitka, located on Wesbrook, still below grade so not much to see anyway. I didn't feel like parking to take a better pic:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8522/dscn2086i.jpg

[Dylan Leblanc]

Is this the location of Sitka? http://www.google.com/maps?q=%34%39%2e%32%36%32%36%33%30,+%2d%31%32%33%2e%32%34%31%38%35%32+(Sitka)&ll=%34%39%2e%32%36%32%36%33%30,%2d%31%32%33%2e%32%34%31%38%35%32&z=17&t=h

I want to make sure it's correct in the database.

[djun]

Yup, that's the location.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Great thanks! entheosfog's photo helped me nail it. I used to live around the corner on Oyama Ct. about 10 years ago, the neighbourhood has sure changed!

[Dylan Leblanc]

Looks like this one is also U/C out at UBC in the new Wesbrook village area.

Sage - http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=94686

http://reimers.ca/gallery/258460638_1.jpg
http://reimers.ca/results.php?page=6&filter=ListPrice%20DESC&site=2&categ_name=66&propCity=Vancouver&propTypeL=s%3A15%3A%22Apartment%2FCondo%22%3B

[Zassk]

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=211236780244635591430.0004a28dfaf9dd0eab80c&ll=49.26254,-123.224459&spn=0.033944,0.079308&t=h&z=14

[djh]

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=211236780244635591430.0004a28dfaf9dd0eab80c&ll=49.26254,-123.224459&spn=0.033944,0.079308&t=h&z=14

That makes a LOT of sense.

How would one navigate skytrain around the golf course? I would imagine that it would probably be overground from University Boulevard and west, so how to cross a golf course - isn't that route you plotted all golf course, oe no? And is that land owned by a native band, in which case, how easy or difficult would it be for the province to gain right-of-way privileges?

(BTW, how do you make annotated google maps?)

[Zassk]

That makes a LOT of sense.

How would one navigate skytrain around the golf course? I would imagine that it would probably be overground from University Boulevard and west, so how to cross a golf course - isn't that route you plotted all golf course, oe no? And is that land owned by a native band, in which case, how easy or difficult would it be for the province to gain right-of-way privileges?

(BTW, how do you make annotated google maps?)

The route that I drew cuts across the last hole of the golf course, but it could be rerouted a few meters further west so that it's not on the golf course property.

My main proposal is to make the SkyTrain turn the other way where University Blvd curves, skirt along the edge of UHill school and Acadia residence and emerge on Wesbrook Blvd. A station there would serve the residences, frat houses, Hamptons, both high schools, Wesbrook Village, and Thunderbird sports.

P.S. To make a map, signin/create your Google account, then go to Google maps and click "My Maps" -> "Create New Map".

[wrenegade]

I like the idea, but personally I think it would make more sense for the UBC Line to continue down University Blvd, have a stop at or around University Blvd & Wesbrook Mall, then continue down Wesbrook at terminate at a Wesbrook Village Station. It kinda seems backwards to prioritize Wesbrook Village station over the UBC Station in my opinion.

[hollywoodnorth]

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=211236780244635591430.0004a28dfaf9dd0eab80c&ll=49.26254,-123.224459&spn=0.033944,0.079308&t=h&z=14

great idea .... and great map. I think this should be considered by Translink if they move forward with RRT

[Zassk]

I like the idea, but personally I think it would make more sense for the UBC Line to continue down University Blvd, have a stop at or around University Blvd & Wesbrook Mall, then continue down Wesbrook at terminate at a Wesbrook Village Station. It kinda seems backwards to prioritize Wesbrook Village station over the UBC Station in my opinion.

Either way is fine to me, but Wesbrook Village is actually quite a bit further east than UBC station, so it would be a strange path.

My thought was that, as the campus expands toward Wesbrook Village, you basically end up with two stations serving the larger campus, plus both of the neighbouring communities.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I've always though running the tracks to the Thunderbird area of campus would make a fair bit of sense, the running it up mall to the SUB. It would kill about 700m of walking for events at the stadium, and allow the parkade to be used as a park and ride in the summer.

Also, the engineering area of campus would love it :yes:

[jsbertram]

That makes a LOT of sense.

How would one navigate skytrain around the golf course? I would imagine that it would probably be overground from University Boulevard and west, so how to cross a golf course - isn't that route you plotted all golf course, oe no? And is that land owned by a native band, in which case, how easy or difficult would it be for the province to gain right-of-way privileges?

(BTW, how do you make annotated google maps?)

If TBM construction is used, there's nothing to 'navigate around' since the tube is already 50'-75' underground.

The Canada Line tunnel was built using TBM machines from Olympic Station to Waterfront Station. No need to 'navigate around' False Creek - just bore the tube under it. The curved section from Yaletown Station to Granville Street simply stayed deep enough that the ground supporting the buildings overhead (like the Brava condos, the VanCity Theatre, the Chateau Granville) barely moved. From the reports I've read the worst amount of ground settling was less than 1/4 mm - the corner of one older building sank by roughly the thickness of a fingernail. The engineers were aware of this but weren't too worried about this, since the building was going to be knocked over anyhow for the expansion of Emery Barnes Park.

With TBM construction, once you are deep underground, and have sufficient separation from the buildings above so that the ground supporting those buildings doesn't move, you can bore the TBM tunnel under anything you want - golf courses, condos, schools, water (like False Creek), and streets (like University Blvd or 10th Ave).

Of course its easier to bore new subway tunnels under already existing infrastructure like roads, but sometimes it is necessary to go under -or close to- existing buildings to simplify the routing of the subway.

[officedweller]

I like the idea, but personally I think it would make more sense for the UBC Line to continue down University Blvd, have a stop at or around University Blvd & Wesbrook Mall, then continue down Wesbrook at terminate at a Wesbrook Village Station. It kinda seems backwards to prioritize Wesbrook Village station over the UBC Station in my opinion.

Agreed - and it provides more an an opportunity for expansion along 41st Ave in the distant future.

[allan_kuan]

Actually that [41st Ave Line] should be its own separate line with separate tunnels. =S

[djh]

If TBM construction is used, there's nothing to 'navigate around' since the tube is already 50'-75' underground.

The Canada Line tunnel was built using TBM machines from Olympic Station to Waterfront Station. No need to 'navigate around' False Creek - just bore the tube under it. The curved section from Yaletown Station to Granville Street simply stayed deep enough that the ground supporting the buildings overhead (like the Brava condos, the VanCity Theatre, the Chateau Granville) barely moved. From the reports I've read the worst amount of ground settling was less than 1/4 mm - the corner of one older building sank by roughly the thickness of a fingernail. The engineers were aware of this but weren't too worried about this, since the building was going to be knocked over anyhow for the expansion of Emery Barnes Park.

With TBM construction, once you are deep underground, and have sufficient separation from the buildings above so that the ground supporting those buildings doesn't move, you can bore the TBM tunnel under anything you want - golf courses, condos, schools, water (like False Creek), and streets (like University Blvd or 10th Ave).

Of course its easier to bore new subway tunnels under already existing infrastructure like roads, but sometimes it is necessary to go under -or close to- existing buildings to simplify the routing of the subway.

Yes. IF you use a TBM.
I specifically ignored that IF, because a) TBM construction is way more expensive than building an at-grade (or elevated) guideway, and b) this is a highly-cost-sensitive project which would probably be criticized for "wasting" money if an expensive technology were used when a cheaper one would suffice, and c) there would be little objection to an at-grade or eleveated guideway along University Boulevard due to the lack of residents to complain about their "ruined" views. Yes, I'd love to see a TBM used, but I doubt it's necessary.

From what I remember in studies, and from comparison to the southernmost section of the Canada Line, it's possible that the route might be single-track to UBC. Therefore, wouldn't it make more sense to have the track go past the residential area before hitting a terminus at UBC, as suggested in Zassk's map? Just a thought.

[trofirhen]

If TBM construction is used, there's nothing to 'navigate around' since the tube is already 50'-75' underground.

The Canada Line tunnel was built using TBM machines from Olympic Station to Waterfront Station. No need to 'navigate around' False Creek - just bore the tube under it. The curved section from Yaletown Station to Granville Street simply stayed deep enough that the ground supporting the buildings overhead (like the Brava condos, the VanCity Theatre, the Chateau Granville) barely moved. From the reports I've read the worst amount of ground settling was less than 1/4 mm - the corner of one older building sank by roughly the thickness of a fingernail. The engineers were aware of this but weren't too worried about this, since the building was going to be knocked over anyhow for the expansion of Emery Barnes Park.

With TBM construction, once you are deep underground, and have sufficient separation from the buildings above so that the ground supporting those buildings doesn't move, you can bore the TBM tunnel under anything you want - golf courses, condos, schools, water (like False Creek), and streets (like University Blvd or 10th Ave).

Of course its easier to bore new subway tunnels under already existing infrastructure like roads, but sometimes it is necessary to go under -or close to- existing buildings to simplify the routing of the subway.
:previous:

Agreed. I think tunnels are the best way to go, with the least impact on the environment, visual and otherwise.

Agreed - and it provides more an an opportunity for expansion along 41st Ave in the distant future.
:previous:
I also think a crosstown midtown line will one day be needed, and 41st is a good choice, probably the best, for such. However, (and cut-and-cover is a lot cheaper, though messy) I think the line should be underground. Guideways along 41st would render much of the street hideous.

Yes. IF you use a TBM.
I specifically ignored that IF, because a) TBM construction is way more expensive than building an at-grade (or elevated) guideway, and b) this is a highly-cost-sensitive project which would probably be criticized for "wasting" money if an expensive technology were used when a cheaper one would suffice, and c) there would be little objection to an at-grade or eleveated guideway along University Boulevard due to the lack of residents to complain about their "ruined" views. Yes, I'd love to see a TBM used, but I doubt it's necessary.
:previous:
.

IMHO it's the $$$ aspect, as you say, that is prohibitive. Nevertheless, be there complaining residents or not, I still much prefer the tunnel method.

[Porfiry]

The Translink consultation doc says any tunnelling at UBC would be cut-and-cover.

[allan_kuan]

Actually I disagree about SkyTrain being moved south to serve Westbrook. That forces everyone else from the East to go an indirect route (e.g. a private subway system) akin to the debate about Guildford and the Surrey Rapid Transit system. A better solution would be to do some sort of cyclical streetcar system like what some of the UBC urban planning professors want. It'd fit in well being a local system designed to serve the polycentric UBC neighbourhoods.

[wrenegade]

Actually I disagree about SkyTrain being moved south to serve Westbrook. That forces everyone else from the East to go an indirect route (e.g. a private subway system) akin to the debate about Guildford and the Surrey Rapid Transit system. A better solution would be to do some sort of cyclical streetcar system like what some of the UBC urban planning professors want. It'd fit in well being a local system designed to serve the polycentric UBC neighbourhoods.

This is actually a pretty good idea. Wesbrook is a pretty wide street and with a couple areas along it's length where stations could work, street LRT is probably much more appropriate. Not to mention probably quite a bit cheaper.

[trofirhen]

The Translink consultation doc says any tunnelling at UBC would be cut-and-cover.
:previous:
What about getting it up the escarpment? If it's cut and cover under 10th going up, isn't that a rather steep grade?

[allan_kuan]

I doubt that's considered a part of UBC though... besides the local residents would raise a loud siren alarm over that. =O

[officedweller]

:previous:
What about getting it up the escarpment? If it's cut and cover under 10th going up, isn't that a rather steep grade?

He said "at" UBC (I interpret that to mean west of Blanca).

From what I remember in studies, and from comparison to the southernmost section of the Canada Line, it's possible that the route might be single-track to UBC. Therefore, wouldn't it make more sense to have the track go past the residential area before hitting a terminus at UBC, as suggested in Zassk's map? Just a thought.

Good point if it's single track - but I think they'd be nuts to single track a UBC terminus - just because of the crush loads of arriving and departing passengers at the one destination would mean an overflowing platform.

If UBC is the penultimate station (with dual track), they could single track to Wesbrook Village and even short turn some trains at UBC.

[LeftCoaster]

What about a loop, something like this:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/463/ubcloop.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/ubcloop.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Allowing the midtown line and the Broadway line to meet at UBC.

[Porfiry]

:previous:
What about getting it up the escarpment? If it's cut and cover under 10th going up, isn't that a rather steep grade?

The doc says "A section on University Boulevard is assumed to be cut and cover.", so that'd be somewhere west of Blanca.

[allan_kuan]

Interesting concept. However, that's a lot of boring that they'll have to do.

[jsbertram]

The doc says "A section on University Boulevard is assumed to be cut and cover.", so that'd be somewhere west of Blanca.

It seems odd to me to use TBMs to bore 10 KM from VCC Station to Blanca, only to switch to cut 'n' cover for the last 2 1/2 KMs through UEL and UBC.

With the difference in cost of TBM vs. cut 'n' cover being around 10%, the extra costs involved in changing between these two tunneling methods may be the same as (or greater than) just using TBM all the way to UBC.

[jlousa]

The cost difference might not be much for cut and covering only the last 2.5Km but the time savings would be significant as you could have the 2.5K done at the same time as the boring is taking place.

[Zassk]

We're not going to see a 41st Avenue line for the next 30+ years. I see no point in planning the UBC line around that. That would be like pointing the end of the Evergreen Line toward Belcarra just because there might be growth there in the next 30 years. In that distant future, older lines can be reconfigured and rebuilt to meet whatever reality exists then. The city will be much larger by the time such things come to pass, and therefore will be able to afford to build or rebuild subway lines at that time.

[jsbertram]

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=211236780244635591430.0004a28dfaf9dd0eab80c&ll=49.26254,-123.224459&spn=0.033944,0.079308&t=h&z=14

I was thinking that with TBM construction, you aren't restricted to using the space under, over, or on existing roadways, so why bother staying on the U.Blvd alignment?

Here's one idea of the Skytrain bore using Thunderbird Blvd and West Mall:
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4710/ubcsubwayublvdwmall.png

and a variant using Thunderbird Blvd and Main Mall:
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2332/ubcsubwayublvdmainmall.png

But since the TBM bore can go under the golf course, you can build a different route so that the Skytrain runs the length of UBC and connects to the new high-density developments on either side of 16th Ave:
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6173/ubcsubway16themall.png

This last variant could give you stations at SUB / University Blvd, Thunderbird Blvd, and 16th Ave / Wesbrook Mall.

By running the Skytrain route along the length of UBC, it is closer to the centre of of the campus and allows for stations to be located closer to where the future growth of the campus will be.

[allan_kuan]

I don't think that covers enough territory though. Specifically it misses University Bvld, the main significant corridor into UBC. Note that the golf course to the north of the bvld. may eventually get redeveloped by the Musqueam FN for more housing, and also note that there's a significant commercial centre just to the east of the intersection with Westbrook Mall. At the moment all three alignments miss those two important areas.

In addition, I have strong doubts as to whether the university or the region will be willing to fund that deviation. If anything it'll only serve the interests of the university and its residents at a possible doubling or tripling of any theoretical length and costs for that segment.

A UBC circulatory streetcar, on the other hand, may be able to cover additional territory and provide better service at a much cheaper cost and would fit in nicely with UBC's generally large road right of ways. In addition it'd also be a good "test case" of the theories of UBC's urban planning department.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1555/ubctransport.png
(This map is my creation, save for the underlying imagery, which comes from OpenStreetMap.)

[BCPhil]

I don't think that covers enough territory though. Specifically it misses University Bvld, the main significant corridor into UBC. Note that the golf course to the north of the bvld. may eventually get redeveloped by the Musqueam FN for more housing, and also note that there's a significant commercial centre just to the east of the intersection with Westbrook Mall. At the moment all three alignments miss those two important areas.

In addition, I have strong doubts as to whether the university or the region will be willing to fund that deviation. If anything it'll only serve the interests of the university and its residents at a possible doubling or tripling of any theoretical length and costs for that segment.

A UBC circulatory streetcar, on the other hand, may be able to cover additional territory and provide better service at a much cheaper cost and would fit in nicely with UBC's generally large road right of ways. In addition it'd also be a good "test case" of the theories of UBC's urban planning department.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1555/ubctransport.png
(This map is my creation, save for the underlying imagery, which comes from OpenStreetMap.)

I think that would really help circulate students really well around the school. But I would put the stations at Westbrook and University (where your point grey station is), and a second station at West Mall and University (where your Vanier station is). The second one would be optional but it would pretty close to many residents, thus offering students a shorter walk home if they are coming into the school after being in the city at night (work, partying, whatever). It could be single tracked, and basically allow better loading and unloading at the more popular station University Station, and function as the turn around point for trains. But that's just an option. You are going to need a tail track off University station to turn trains around (University would be too busy for just one platform), so you could extend it a hundred meters and have a second station.

What I do think a lot of people are forgetting is what you said about the golf course. I believe it is first nations land, and when the lease is up, they want to redevelop it. So that is one of the main reasons for cut and cover, it allows them to add a station near the present golf course when it is redeveloped as a high density neighborhood, thus contributing to the ridership of the line. Be it student housing, rental apartments, leasehold condos or office space, that will be a busy station when the golf course is gone.

The other thing, concerning the 41st ave line, is that it would be better as LRT/streetcar. It is quite a busy bus, cuts through much of the city and Kerrisdale, but isn't a regional destination like Broadway/UBC. I don't think it would ever need to by Skytrain. And LRT at grade would function quite well on SW Marine Dr parkway hitting some pretty good speeds, and the local service on the rest of the route is what is needed most.

[allan_kuan]

I actually curved UBC Vancouver up there just in the rare chance that when the SUB gets rebuilt that they actually include a provision for a SkyTrain station underneath. I have no idea as to how plans are progressing there though. =S

[whatnext]

It wasn't noted here, but compassion triumphed over superstition and UBC approved the hospice last week. If you're looking for a good deal on a condo, maybe check out listings in the Promontory to see if the NIMBY's put their money where their mouth is.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/ubc-hospice-plans-approved-despite-residents-objections/article2052151/

[Kodii]

I actually curved UBC Vancouver up there just in the rare chance that when the SUB gets rebuilt that they actually include a provision for a SkyTrain station underneath. I have no idea as to how plans are progressing there though. =S

I'm not entirely sure if a second station on the Endowment Lands would even be necessary. Though, if there is one, the "Vanier" location would be more idea (Main Mall and University Boulevard). The new SUB isn't located where your UBC Vancouver station currently is.

I would also move your streetcar down to West Mall (or even Lower Mall) rather than Main Mall, to bring it closer to the residences. I like the concept though.

[radacal]

UBC Faculty of Law Building (Allard Hall) is officially open.

[officedweller]

Here some pics of the new Pharmacy Building under construction from a guy at Glotman Simpson Engineers:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24096204@N03/

[officedweller]

Don't think this one has been mentioned:

Djavad Mowafaghian Centre for Brain Health
Adjacent to UBC Hospital. Designed by Stantec.

http://www.centreforbrainhealth.ca/Default.htm

http://www.centreforbrainhealth.ca/__shared/assets/cbh_building_view220075.jpg
http://www.centreforbrainhealth.ca/__shared/assets/cbh_building_view220075.jpg

http://www.centreforbrainhealth.ca/__shared/assets/cbh_building_view320078.jpg
http://www.centreforbrainhealth.ca/__shared/assets/cbh_building_view320078.jpg

[Alex Mackinnon]

That one took me a little bit to figure out since the location isn't posted in the description.

The building is going up in the parking lot on Wesbrook Mall in front of the UBC Hospital. Looks like a pretty slick use of space.

[Echowinds]

The above building hides the old hospital quite well from site along Westbrook Mall. I can't say I am a fan of the architecture of the hospital. This new building alongside the Pharmacy building will make Westbrook Mall more dignified.

It's quite a busy year in UBC, building wise. Lots of new buildings and infrastructure built. The notorious potholes on the asphalt pathways are the most notable, as they are now paved with bricks on several major paths. The University Commons, the area around East Mall and University Boulevard will get a lot nicer once the new SUB gets going, the aquatic centre renewed, the roads repaved, and the transit center gets put into place (hopefully with some sort of rapid transit integration) in several years time.

They also just opened "North America's Greenest Building".
http://www.sustain.ubc.ca/sites/default/files/CIRSspotlight_0.JPG
http://www.sustain.ubc.ca/ubc-opens-north-americas-greenest-building

Loads of new housing for both the market and students too.

[Vestry]

Construction starting next to the Kenny Building and Continuing Studies Building.
Student housing going up.

[entheosfog]

A few while I was waiting at a light. These are across the street from one another:
Sitka:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2062/dscn2483gu.jpg

and the Centre for Drug Research and Development, or something like that:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3748/dscn2484bc.jpg

[dubsH]

Sitka went up fast! The building across the street is the Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences building - lol that'll be my new building to use next year. Anticipated opening is September 2012.

[NewWester]

I like to think of the new Pharm building as the Science Hive (take a look at the Western Face and you shall see). Of course I think the Life Sciences Building looks like a Scientist Terrarium on the inside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/the-bh/388703875/

[entheosfog]

Sika:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8990/dscn2765x.jpg

[BIMBAM]

Sitka went up fast! The building across the street is the Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences building - lol that'll be my new building to use next year. Anticipated opening is September 2012.

Another UBC pharmacy student is a skyscraper page fan? I'm a U1 this year, looking forward to moving into the building. Tony, when throwing around names, actually mentioned it might be called nicknamed "The Hive", amongst others like "The Molecule".

[dubsH]

Another UBC pharmacy student is a skyscraper page fan? I'm a U1 this year, looking forward to moving into the building. Tony, when throwing around names, actually mentioned it might be called nicknamed "The Hive", amongst others like "The Molecule".

Ya. I was on a tour inside the building and it's pretty sweet how they built this all from scratch (was just a big hole after the Olympics last year). "The Hive" part looks awesome, that's where the Welcome Back BBQ will be held if it's done in time this year.

Edit: I'll try to get some interior pics from my phone when I upload them.

[deasine]

I'm amazed to see the development of the Pharmacy building.

[BIMBAM]

Oh please do post pictures!

[entheosfog]

I would have gotten pics of that building as well but Sika is much easier to photograph from a vehicle stopped at a light when travelling south...

[BIMBAM]

Oh that's fine, I was responding to dubsh who says they've got interior pics.

[osirisboy]

Interesting little article about the 4 most expensive new buildings at UBC

http://ubyssey.ca/news/four-most-expensive-buildings-ever-at-ubc777/

I found the second one interesting, over 1,100 beds in 17 floors, thats a good chunk of student housing. (excavation has recently begun on it)

[entheosfog]

Here's a quickie of it!
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7222/dscn2782g.jpg

[officedweller]

Is that the Pharnacy Building?
I thought it was supposed to be clad in a concrete grid?

The floor to ceiling heights look really low.

[NewWester]

Someone ought to nab a photo of the west side of it: it's the most interesting. (That someone probably should be me as I work next door...)

[djun]

Yeah I'm wondering where the exterier concrete is too... The floor to ceiling height is low. The Life Sciences building next door has 5 floors and the new pharmacy is more or less the same height but has 8 floors!

[NewWester]

The apparent top "floor" isn't actually. It's just windows covering a thin space containing all the airflow ducting and fans (labs buildings devote a fearsome space to moving and cleaning waste air). At most, the new pharm building has 7 above grade floors, and even then I'm doubting that a bit... the office/common space sections (see leading corner) have apparently taller ceilings consistent with 5 floors. I wonder if the labspace windows are deceiving?

LSC does have very high ceilings though...

[Echowinds]

I rather like the glass on the pharmacy building. It's pretty much a rectangular glass box, which strongly contrasts the concrete modernist buildings around the hospital.

[BodomReaper]

Taken on April 20:

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/BodomReaper666/DSC05853.jpg

[JonLuke]

UBC photo update - all photos taken on Friday by me:

Ponderosa Commons:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/774/img1767bl.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2136/img1766y.jpg
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8947/img1659w.jpg

Lower Mall and Agronomy - not sure what this is:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8979/img1662gi.jpg

New Totem Park residences:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8779/img1665qn.jpg

Tower at Thunderbird and Wesbrook:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8488/img1667ib.jpg

Wesbrook Village:
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1192/img1668dn.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6969/img1670m.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3680/img1672m.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5010/img1674wd.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3415/img1678kb.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4206/img1680zef.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2230/img1681km.jpg
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7227/img1684n.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6323/img1685ei.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4857/img1688xk.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1327/img1689lpd.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/262/img1692rx.jpg

Sage:
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1364/img1694us.jpg
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1687/img1697ig.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4057/img1690sj.jpg

Site adjacent to Sage:
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1839/img1698dr.jpg

Not sure what's going up here (16th between East Mall and Wesbrook):
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/697/img1703jn.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/725/img1705qs.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7043/img1675n.jpg

Pharmaceutical Sciences:
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8379/img1707dm.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7480/img1708x.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3961/img1711rc.jpg
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9537/img1719w.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2017/img1721du.jpg

Sika:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/46/img1714nc.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4550/img1712ra.jpg

Centre for Brain Health:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2332/img1727y.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5728/img1726nf.jpg

Steam to hot water conversion system (running through much of the campus, mostly along Main Mall):
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3918/img1729xw.jpg
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7266/img1730mw.jpg

Recently completed CIRS:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1443/img1732x.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3852/img1734v.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8783/img1735dg.jpg

Earth and Ocean Sciences:
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9246/img1738yn.jpg
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6546/img1740s.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5576/img1742i.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2148/img1744s.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/532/img1746j.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2192/img1747xm.jpg

Looks like some work is taking place on the Scarfe building:
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6019/img1750c.jpg

Main Mall and University Boulevard revitalization:
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/160/img1756oi.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4389/img1752j.jpg

Somewhat recently completed Sauder renovation and expansion:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3616/img1759h.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/363/img1763sc.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1552/img1769su.jpg

Law (Allard Hall):
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7223/img1774r.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/11/img1778hj.jpg
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7241/img1779uc.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3089/img1782cf.jpg

Site adjacent to Allard Hall:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/428/img1776hm.jpg

Hillel House Centre for Jewish Campus Life:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6200/img1786k.jpg

Student Union Building:
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4170/img1788v.jpg

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the update.

[sacrifice333]

Excellent update!