[JACKinBeantown]

Nice!

[oldmanshirt]

I agree! Some very unique angles! :)

[ydoc14]

Great pics, especially the one looking straight up BOAP, I rarely find any pictures of that in my searching :tup:

[KevinFromTexas]

For all the wrong things going on on the city's fringes, and all the flack the city catches for it, San Antonio really does do the right thing in downtown. Great density there. Great looking city.

[jowens]

For all the wrong things going on on the city's fringes, and all the flack the city catches for it, San Antonio really does do the right thing in downtown. Great density there. Great looking city.

I agree Kevin. The downtown area definately has good density. This weekend I noticed a nice view of downtown from the 410 loop on the northwest side around the Babcock road exit. From that view, the downtown core is very solid and not "spread out".

Being from Austin, I'll show favoritism, but comparing the 2 downtowns is like comparing apples and oranges. I love them both.:)

[oldmanshirt]

This weekend I noticed a nice view of downtown from the 410 loop on the northwest side around the Babcock road exit. From that view, the downtown core is very solid and not "spread out".

The area from Fred Rd over to Bandera from just inside 410 down to Woodlawn or the Deco Dist provides the best views of the skyline imo, hands down. The view from hwy 90 just southwest of downtown is the only other place that comes close.

[texboy]

I definitly think San Antonio's downtown has the potential to be THE BEST in the state...yes better than Austin's. I feel that once this River North and the mission reach start getting off the ground, you just won't be able to compete with SA. Itll have all of the components, Cultural, residential, commercial, retail, recreational, tourism etc.....I cannot WAIT!

[verbl]

I definitly think San Antonio's downtown has the potential to be THE BEST in the state...yes better than Austin's. I feel that once this River North and the mission reach start getting off the ground, you just won't be able to compete with SA. Itll have all of the components, Cultural, residential, commercial, retail, recreational, tourism etc.....I cannot WAIT!


Me as well, but Austin is getting some of the best lookers I have seen in a while. On the other SA is my home and the river north will be VERY awesome:) :) :)

[KevinFromTexas]

Yes, and now if we can only get the old farts on the HDRC to warm up a bit to something different. I'm not saying change downtown San Antonio, just please, please, don't stifle growth with harsh restrictions. I am of course talking about the denied permit for demolishing the 601 N. St. Mary's Building. Not bad a building, but having nothing happen either way, either no demolition and nothing new, or no restoration, is hurting downtown. Something's gotta give.

[Schertz1]

They may be forced to incorporate the old face into the new building. When built, the AT&T HQs was faced with the same problem and it turned out well. I am more concerned with why they want to demolish; what will be built?

[sakyle04]

They may be forced to incorporate the old face into the new building. When built, the AT&T HQs was faced with the same problem and it turned out well. I am more concerned with why they want to demolish; what will be built?

The only "face" i am concerned about at this moment is Kevin's avatar face. Yamma Hamma!! I can't get through a page without shuddering.

[STLtoSA]

Is there any visible construction work still going on at the Grand Hyatt? I was wondering if they're still doing some inside touch ups. Anyone know?

I met with the Convention Center's Project Manager for the Grand Hyatt a couple of weeks ago and he said that they will be working for quite some time to finish up the hotel and its amenities. Don't even ask about the condos, they will still be some time.

The Convention Center is now setting its sites on a major expansion. But first they are trying to get Market Street realigned.

[oldmanshirt]

The Convention Center is now setting its sites on a major expansion. But first they are trying to get Market Street realigned.

I was thinking today how cool it would be if SA could land a political convention in the near future, like Denver and St. Paul this year. Anybody know how far in advance they book those things?

[Raining Inside]

I was thinking today how cool it would be if SA could land a political convention in the near future, like Denver and St. Paul this year. Anybody know how far in advance they book those things?

It would be great if SA could land a political convention. But both parties typically choose the location based on political goals rather than the merits of the host city. If/when Texas becomes a swing state SA would get serious consideration.

[ArizonaTexan]

I was thinking today how cool it would be if SA could land a political convention in the near future, like Denver and St. Paul this year. Anybody know how far in advance they book those things?

It takes right about 2 years to book a convention. In 1998 San Antonio was a possible host city for the Republican Nat. Convention along with New Orleans, Indianapolis, Philadelphia and New York. Philadelphia was chosen in November of 1998 to host the 2000 convention.

(San Antonio also bid for the 2000 DNC but didn't make the short list as it did for the Republican Convention. LA was chosen to host the DNC in March '99).

[Paul in S.A TX]

It takes right about 2 years to book a convention. In 1998 San Antonio was a possible host city for the Republican Nat. Convention along with New Orleans, Indianapolis, Philadelphia and New York. Philadelphia was chosen in November of 1998 to host the 2000 convention.

(San Antonio also bid for the 2000 DNC but didn't make the short list as it did for the Republican Convention. LA was chosen to host the DNC in March '99).

Didn't San Antonio make the short list for one of the conventions but lost out to San Diego at the end?

[ArizonaTexan]

Didn't San Antonio make the short list for one of the conventions but lost out to San Diego at the end?

I don't know if SA bid for the RNC in '96 which ultimately went to San Diego (probably did) but SA did lose to Chicago in '96 to host the DNC. Chicago and SA were the two finalists.

[sakyle04]

found at http://thevistana.com
http://thevistana.com/vistanacam/LVTheVistana20080623165700000N.jpg

[JACKinBeantown]

Still waiting for that one awesome photo that covers all of downtown SA in one shot. Maybe it's from the Trinity tower, maybe I-10 northwest of downtown, maybe somewhere else. Who's got it?

[Boquillas]

Hold yer horses! I'll be in town on the 10th! In the meantime, SA forumers get out there and snap! I know a lot of you take good pics-- I've seen 'em! You guys need to put us back in the My City Photos section!! I can't come in from MT twice a year now with the price of gas these days...;)

[verbl]

These were taken from my grandfather's penthouse condo lol..... Over by the VIA depot and SAC.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/verbl1/granpashouse.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/verbl1/grandpashouse2.jpg
And another pic of the BOA from a cool angle. All photos were taken by me of course.:)
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/verbl1/boa-1.jpg

[sakyle04]

:previous: Nice photos!!! G-ma has a sweet pad!! :haha:

You took these in the late afternoon/evening. Notice the color of the glass on the Grand Hyatt....? Cool greenish look. But notice the one unit that doesn't have the paper up on the window (second floor from top nearest the Tower)? Eventually, I think they will all be that much darker green/blue then.

[ydoc14]

Awesome pics verbl!! Hey, how 'bout I take those two pics and try to stitch them together into a pano and repost them on here, they're just begging to be put together haha.

[Boquillas]

Nice shots verbl! Anyone else think the NW corner of DT needs some talls?

[verbl]

Awesome pics verbl!! Hey, how 'bout I take those two pics and try to stitch them together into a pano and repost them on here, they're just begging to be put together haha.

I have no idea how to do that but if anyone can do it and wants to you have my blessing. And to the other post...The NW side of DT surely does need some bigs lol

[oldmanshirt]

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1985/dtfromnwbp1.jpg
This is my first pano, btw, luckily I had some good material to work with :yes:

As for NW DT getting more development, I read in the E-N a couple of days ago that one of the hospitals downtown (can't remember which) is planning something like $500 million worth of expansion, including a new trauma tower. I can try to find the article if anyone's interested.

EDIT: Its actually $900 million http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA062508.3B.uhs.EN.2f9c3f2.html

[ydoc14]

^^^ Good, that's what mine came out looking like too haha.

[ydoc14]

Taken by Danger Mouse 5 @ Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2613759552_c15abfb062_b.jpg

[oldmanshirt]

^^I like that one. 3 years ago there would have been nothing in that picture except the ToA.

[JACKinBeantown]

Nice pics! Thanks for posting. Anybody have one with Vidorra prominently displayed in the skyline?

[ydoc14]

You know what would be really cool verbl...if you had a night shot from your grandpa's penthouse ;)

[Complex01]

^^I like that one. 3 years ago there would have been nothing in that picture except the ToA.

That is very true. Crazy how cities change so quickly. Very Nice...

:yes:

[ydoc14]

D.E.N.S.I.T.Y.

Taken by Barry Pace @ Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2162/2616449230_d375b4608a_b.jpg

[KevinFromTexas]

I'll be in San Antonio next month also. Looking forward to visiting the Tower of the Americas and taking pics around downtown.

[swissspice]

Interesting story to go along with ydoc14's picture:

When they started that project, I thought for sure they'd demolish that tiny sliver of an empty building shell between the St. Mary's school and the Holiday Inn, but they never did. When they bought the school building, they paid $2.1 million. The guy who owns that building next to it thought there was no way they'd build without his land, and held out for $7 million. As we can see, he guessed wrong. It turned out to be cheaper to go higher to make up for the lost width. So, now I guess we're stuck with that vacant sliver.

[sakyle04]

Interesting story to go along with ydoc14's picture:

When they started that project, I thought for sure they'd demolish that tiny sliver of an empty building shell between the St. Mary's school and the Holiday Inn, but they never did. When they bought the school building, they paid $2.1 million. The guy who owns that building next to it thought there was no way they'd build without his land, and held out for $7 million. As we can see, he guessed wrong. It turned out to be cheaper to go higher to make up for the lost width. So, now I guess we're stuck with that vacant sliver.

we're still counting on that sliver becoming downtown's newest 1-lane bowling alley. :haha:

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

Downtown is really lacking in the one lane bowling alley department

[sakyle04]

Downtown is really lacking in the one lane bowling alley department
:previous:
:haha: :haha:

ya, i don't think we can ever consider ourselves a legitimate major city until we have more stand-alone, 1-lane, downtown bowling alleys. forget light-rail...bring on the 7-10 split.

seriously - if you had to guess, what will that space become? i am going with a Subway or Starbucks - they seem to be able to operate in really tight quarters.

[verbl]

You know what would be really cool verbl...if you had a night shot from your grandpa's penthouse ;)

I do have some shots at night but I was using a regular snapshot 7 megapixel camera and those shots came out very bad. But it's cool you said that 'cuz the first thing I thought of was how cool the night pics were gonna be:) :) :)

[alexjon]

Any word on a new AT&T HQ?

Oh, wait.

;) (I kid)

[oldmanshirt]

Any word on a new AT&T HQ?

Oh, wait.

;) (I kid)

*Sigh* Like a joke about something being lamer than FDR's legs, that was way too soon.

[alexjon]

Nahhhh, it's San Antonio, we'll be fine.

[oldmanshirt]

Oh yeah, totally. I just like using random Family Guy references and I've been sitting on that one for awhile ;)

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

I hate you. :)

[sakyle04]

from the MySa Downtown blog (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/downtown/):
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/downtown/20080629bull3.jpg

[oldmanshirt]

Sweet. The Emily Morgan reallllllly needs something with height behind it. It looks so unfinished, especially from the back.

[sakyle04]

I had this thought today while staring at a map of SA...

If you trace the city limits all the way around, you get something that looks a whole lot like a mushroom...or a muffin.

Stump = downtown and southside
Cap = 90 to the west, 10 to the east and blooming up all the way to 46.

Why did I post this? I don't know. Weird.

[oldmanshirt]

I had this thought today while staring at a map of SA...

If you trace the city limits all the way around, you get something that looks a whole lot like a mushroom...or a muffin.

Stump = downtown and southside
Cap = 90 to the west, 10 to the east and blooming up all the way to 46.

Why did I post this? I don't know. Weird.

Hmm, maybe you have mushrooms on your mind for some reason. . . .

[sananto]

Any word on a new AT&T HQ?Yea,,, They will probably build a 90 story structure in downtown Dallas. Spend $1 billion to move and then pass the cost on to their customers to pay for everything. :slob:

BTW I have no idea why city officials were surprised. It was rumored even before Stephensen became CEO.

[sakyle04]

Click on this link (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/realestate/2008/07/wonderful_views_from_the_futur.html) to get to the MySA real estate blog.

They've got a link there to a panoramic view of the SA skyline from what will be the 17th floor of the Broadway....maybe someone can figure out how to post it on here for all to see....?

[KevinFromTexas]

Very nice view.
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/realestate/Broadway%2017th.jpg
Source: http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/realestate/2008/07/wonderful_views_from_the_futur.html

[sakyle04]

^^^^

Thanks, Kevin...

[oldmanshirt]

Wow. Great pic. I'm already mentally adding in the high-rises I'm thinking will go up in the next 5-10 years :)

[JACKinBeantown]

Nice! That's the one I've been waiting for. Is there a larger version?

[ydoc14]

Skyline view from the west (Lackland AFB). Sorry for the big size, but the skyline didn't show up very good in the smaller versions.

Taken by Justin Self @ Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2650503872_8683205692_o.jpg

[JACKinBeantown]

That is big.

[sakyle04]

Vistana update from 07/09/2008...
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z83/theburkholders/LVTheVistana20080602081500000N-1.jpg

webcam from http://thevistana.com

[sakyle04]

Didn't know where else to put this...

San Antonio added 32,680 residents between July 2006 and July 2007, increasing its population to 1,328,984 from 1,296,304, according to the Census Bureau figures being released today.

Source: MySa.com

[kornbread]

Didn't know where else to put this...


There's a city compilations thread for SA. That seems like the obvious place for this type of news and Toyota halting production for 3 months. I'm just thankful you didn't start a new thread.

[sakyle04]

There's a city compilations thread for SA. That seems like the obvious place for this type of news and Toyota halting production for 3 months. I'm just thankful you didn't start a new thread.

As my African friends would say: "Not too many new threads - three many!!"

[ydoc14]

Taken by Trefoil @ Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2654993337_a23d1c3f6c_b.jpg

[Raining Inside]

:previous: Nice. That one is wallpaper worthy.

[JACKinBeantown]

It's a lovely photo... quite artistic, nice lighting on the clouds and a fine balance of large sky juxtaposed against small skyline.

Now I want to see the buildings!

[alexjon]

I think SA is merely lacking in density. We could add a couple of 600'-700' buildings and a bunch of 300-400'... oh wait, I said this already haha.

Sigh.

[sakyle04]

a Neisner Building update has been posted on the MySa real estate blog...LINK (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/realestate/2008/07/neisner_welcomes_towneplace_su.html)...

they have updates on timelines, a quote from Andres, and a couple of renderings, including this one:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z83/theburkholders/photo.jpg
(photo from Parsons via above MySa.com address)

[sakyle04]

A four-story hotel is slated for 1024 S Laredo... This last week's SA Biz Journal showed that it had received a city building permit for a $2M structure.

Hardly earth-shattering news, but another surface parking lot is going away.

FYI, S Laredo runs along I-35 on the west side of downtown - this address puts it 2 blocks south of Durango and 2 blocks west of S Flores and Guenther.

[Paul in S.A TX]

DT SA does have density, just maybe not in the 600-700 ft dept.

[oldmanshirt]

I think SA is merely lacking in density. We could add a couple of 600'-700' buildings and a bunch of 300-400'... oh wait, I said this already haha.

Sigh.

I don't know if you can say its lacking density, maybe its just a relative lack of density outside of the Riverwalk. Certainly there's little density visible from the freeway or from certain angles in pictures, but in the places where SA is dense, it blows anything else in TX out of the water, IMO.

Of course height is an issue, and probably always will be, but to me density makes up for a lack of height more effectively than height makes up for a lack of density. A city like Charlotte looks impressive from the highway, but look at an aerial photograph and you notice there's an awful lot of parking lots separating those 600' and 700'ers. SA was just built around a different set of values, and I for one am cool with that :)

[KevinFromTexas]

Very nice picture up there. Love the clouds and deep blue.

[texastarkus]

That's one of the nicest SA skyline photos I've seen. Nice Job!

[sakyle04]

from MySa (http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/realestate/stories/MYSA071208.1G.Homefront.2c49daf.html):
Vidorra is mentioned as incorporating some green features in the building. Nothing too incredible. I would expect more from Tower 2. Of course, Vidorra is pretty affordable, so maybe the economics for Tower 2 will say cut the green features to keep the price down...


The condos will feature several green features:

•Reflective surfaces on balconies to prevent heat build-up

•Energy Star appliances

•Hypoallergenic, recycled carpet pad

•Insulated roof system to reduce heat trapped by the roof

•Collection areas for homeowners to recycle

•Low-flow toilets

•Water-conscious landscaping materials

For more information, visit www.vidorraliving.com.

Creighton A. Welch

[alexjon]

DT SA does have density, just maybe not in the 600-700 ft dept.

That's what I meant, thanks for repeating it.

I know we're very dense on the river level and in most of downtown, but the skyline does indeed reveal that above that, there's not much. Admittedly, there isn't much to see as far as scenery goes, but it'd still be nice to have some towers go up.

Just no market for them.

[oldmanshirt]

from MySa (http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/realestate/stories/MYSA071208.1G.Homefront.2c49daf.html):
Vidorra is mentioned as incorporating some green features in the building. Nothing too incredible. I would expect more from Tower 2. Of course, Vidorra is pretty affordable, so maybe the economics for Tower 2 will say cut the green features to keep the price down...


The condos will feature several green features:

•Reflective surfaces on balconies to prevent heat build-up

•Energy Star appliances

•Hypoallergenic, recycled carpet pad

•Insulated roof system to reduce heat trapped by the roof

•Collection areas for homeowners to recycle

•Low-flow toilets

•Water-conscious landscaping materials

For more information, visit www.vidorraliving.com.

Creighton A. Welch

I wonder how long we can go without hearing any word on tower 2 before we have to officially label it a stale proposal or even write it off completely? You have to wonder, given that we know the market for potential buyers will be reduced by at least 700 by the end of the year. . .

I really don't mean to go all Johnny Raincloud, but the fact that months have gone by without hearing anything on Vidorra 2 just seems ominous to me.

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=vidorraii-sanantonio-tx-usa

emporis lists it as never built

[sakyle04]

I wonder how long we can go without hearing any word on tower 2 before we have to officially label it a stale proposal or even write it off completely? You have to wonder, given that we know the market for potential buyers will be reduced by at least 700 by the end of the year. . .

I really don't mean to go all Johnny Raincloud, but the fact that months have gone by without hearing anything on Vidorra 2 just seems ominous to me.

our "people who know things" insist that it is still coming - but not before vidorra 1 is finished and 80% sold. that makes february 2009 the earliest we could expect any sort of announcement. patience...

[oldmanshirt]

Thanks, sakyle. Patience isn't really one of my strong-suits :p

That's the first I've heard about them not wanting to start tower 2 before 1 is finished. Makes since, considering Koontz-McCombs has said similar regarding the Devine condos not starting until the Broadway is finished.

[sakyle04]

Thanks, sakyle. Patience isn't really one of my strong-suits :p

That's the first I've heard about them not wanting to start tower 2 before 1 is finished. Makes since, considering Koontz-McCombs has said similar regarding the Devine condos not starting until the Broadway is finished.

ever known someone who is trying to sell a house in a subdivision that hasn't been built out yet? can't get a good price since people can walk down the street and customize a new unit from the beginning rather than taking on your 2 yeard-old place...i like to think of it that way, even if it isn't really the same thing.

i would assume that the good folks trying to sell the units in Tower 1 wouldn't really be helped by an entirely new tower being announced - the same units in Tower 2 would sell (best views/floors) as they had in Tower 1 and you would be left with a glut of 5th - 8th floor units with views to the east. ;)

better this way.

also, remember that tower 2 would probably have to be pre-sold just like tower 1 (60%) before construction...it will be a couple of years.

[Schertz1]

Emporis typically has bad or no information to begin with. It's also poorly updated, especially if you do not life in a "hip" city.

[oldmanshirt]

ever known someone who is trying to sell a house in a subdivision that hasn't been built out yet? can't get a good price since people can walk down the street and customize a new unit from the beginning rather than taking on your 2 yeard-old place...i like to think of it that way, even if it isn't really the same thing.

i would assume that the good folks trying to sell the units in Tower 1 wouldn't really be helped by an entirely new tower being announced - the same units in Tower 2 would sell (best views/floors) as they had in Tower 1 and you would be left with a glut of 5th - 8th floor units with views to the east. ;)

better this way.

also, remember that tower 2 would probably have to be pre-sold just like tower 1 (60%) before construction...it will be a couple of years.

All very true. Thanks for setting me straight :tup:

[KevinFromTexas]

Emporis typically has bad or no information to begin with. It's also poorly updated, especially if you do not life in a "hip" city.

I'm actually the main editor for San Antonio at Emporis. I know the data there for San Antonio isn't complete, and isn't always up to date. Unless you live in the city you're trying to update, it's very hard to keep tabs on everything. The best thing would be for someone who actually lives in San Antonio and is dedicated to keeping tabs on its data, to sign up as an editor there. I've tried to keep updated on stuff in downtown, but most of the stuff outside of downtown is harder to keep track of, especially if you don't live there. I would love it if someone else joined up and contributed who actually lives in San Antonio and is familiar with all the developments inside and outside of downtown. I know for sure there are a lot of high rises that are outside of downtown that are missing from the database. There's no way there's only 90 high rises in San Antonio. I'm not sure of the exact number that are missing, but there are a good bit. It's kind of hard to add something to the database if you don't even know if it exists!

[MichaelB]

I'm actually the main editor for San Antonio at Emporis. I know the data there for San Antonio isn't complete, and isn't always up to date. Unless you live in the city you're trying to update, it's very hard to keep tabs on everything. The best thing would be for someone who actually lives in San Antonio and is dedicated to keeping tabs on its data, to sign up as an editor there. I've tried to keep updated on stuff in downtown, but most of the stuff outside of downtown is harder to keep track of, especially if you don't live there. I would love it if someone else joined up and contributed who actually lives in San Antonio and is familiar with all the developments inside and outside of downtown. I know for sure there are a lot of high rises that are outside of downtown that are missing from the database. There's no way there's only 90 high rises in San Antonio. I'm not sure of the exact number that are missing, but there are a good bit. It's kind of hard to add something to the database if you don't even know if it exists!

Nicely put Kev. You are such a gentleman.

[ydoc14]

Here's a cool Vidorra shot: http://flickr.com/photos/78321917@N00/2672165705/

[sakyle04]

All very true. Thanks for setting me straight :tup:

i hope i wasn't setting you straight...:rolleyes: i wake up with cold sweats having nightmares about being the forum know-it-all who must always be right. :haha:

i got bored at work and i guess i got a little wordy..:yes:

(and, if i may ask, where did the name "oldmanshirt" come from....always one of my favorites, but i tend to think of my neighbor in his guayaberra.)

[sakyle04]

Nicely put Kev. You are such a gentleman.

here here!!


kevin, you emporis editor's don't get paid nearly enough!! :haha:

:worship:

[KevinFromTexas]

here here!!


kevin, you emporis editor's don't get paid nearly enough!! :haha:

:worship:

We don't get paid anything. About the only "profit" would be a photo that gets licensed for something, even then I'm not rolling in the money. I'm not looking to make money off it, it's all for fun.

[oldmanshirt]

i hope i wasn't setting you straight...:rolleyes: i wake up with cold sweats having nightmares about being the forum know-it-all who must always be right. :haha:

i got bored at work and i guess i got a little wordy..:yes:

(and, if i may ask, where did the name "oldmanshirt" come from....always one of my favorites, but i tend to think of my neighbor in his guayaberra.)

Hey, no problem. You gave me some good stuff to think about. I'm not real well-verse in the ins and outs of real-estate, so it was good info.

oldmanshirt refers to this horrible-looking plaid shirt I own that was made circa early 80s. I wore it a few times in college and my roommate started referring to it as my "Old Man Shirt". But yeah, its a pretty hideous shirt, my wife hates it and won't let me wear it, and I only wish it were half as cool as a guaybera ;)

[sakyle04]

We don't get paid anything. About the only "profit" would be a photo that gets licensed for something, even then I'm not rolling in the money. I'm not looking to make money off it, it's all for fun.

rolling in dough - don't lie... :haha:

[sakyle04]

Hey, no problem. You gave me some good stuff to think about. I'm not real well-verse in the ins and outs of real-estate, so it was good info.

oldmanshirt refers to this horrible-looking plaid shirt I own that was made circa early 80s. I wore it a few times in college and my roommate started referring to it as my "Old Man Shirt". But yeah, its a pretty hideous shirt, my wife hates it and won't let me wear it, and I only wish it were half as cool as a guaybera ;)

that's an awesome shirt. :tup:

[Schertz1]

If I do not come across as a gentlemen....fine. It was not my intention; nor was it my intention to piss anyone off. The fact - as Kevin also stated - is there are several buildings in downtown and elsewhere that are not listed or have no listed height. Maybe someone in San Antonio should be an editor for emporis and have access to update the compilation page here. I nominate Kingwilliam. He alway seems to know what's going on in town.

[oldmanshirt]

I'm actually the main editor for San Antonio at Emporis. I know the data there for San Antonio isn't complete, and isn't always up to date. Unless you live in the city you're trying to update, it's very hard to keep tabs on everything. The best thing would be for someone who actually lives in San Antonio and is dedicated to keeping tabs on its data, to sign up as an editor there. I've tried to keep updated on stuff in downtown, but most of the stuff outside of downtown is harder to keep track of, especially if you don't live there. I would love it if someone else joined up and contributed who actually lives in San Antonio and is familiar with all the developments inside and outside of downtown. I know for sure there are a lot of high rises that are outside of downtown that are missing from the database. There's no way there's only 90 high rises in San Antonio. I'm not sure of the exact number that are missing, but there are a good bit. It's kind of hard to add something to the database if you don't even know if it exists!

I'd be interested, but my knowledge of existing high-rises (outside of the top 15-20) is somewhat lacking. I could definitely keep on top of new, proposed, and u/c projects, given that I'm on here like 15 hours a day :D

[kornbread]

also, remember that tower 2 would probably have to be pre-sold just like tower 1 (60%) before construction...it will be a couple of years.

If all that is true, then here are a few things to consider:
- Construction for tower 1 began in Dec 2006 (supposedly 60% sold). If they are waiting to announce tower 2 when 80% of tower 1 is built, that means they have not been able to sell an additional 20% in a year and a half.
- Announced condo projects on Houston St have been abandoned in favor of hotels.
- The condo projects that are proceeding downtown are on a much smaller scale. Larger scale projects seem to be favoring apartments.

Personally, I think developers were waiting to see how successful Vidorra would be and what it has shown is that the market just isn't there. The Vidorra developers hedged their bets as well by phasing in units. I would be surprised if Phase 2 is ever built. Wasn't there some federal or city funding involved with Vidorra as well?

I think that residences will still be developed on a more manageable scale in River North, off Broadway and on Flores (maybe even near UTSA downtown). It would be nice to just see those neighborhoods get established over the next 10 years.

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

according to their site it looks like they've only sold out of 2 or 3 floor plans and neither of the penthouses have sold. But it looks like both floorplans of the townhomes have sold.

[KevinFromTexas]

If I do not come across as a gentlemen....fine. It was not my intention; nor was it my intention to piss anyone off. The fact - as Kevin also stated - is there are several buildings in downtown and elsewhere that are not listed or have no listed height. Maybe someone in San Antonio should be an editor for emporis and have access to update the compilation page here. I nominate Kingwilliam. He alway seems to know what's going on in town.

That would be great. Anyone who wants to help out, please do. About the editing of the compilation thread here though. That's more tricky. For one, it would take a moderator to edit the thread. People can only edit their own posts, moderators can edit others. Even after a new thread is created, whoever took over editing it would have to learn how to do the codes for listing each project (if it was decided to keep that format of listing the projects).

As for joining Emporis as an editor. Click on the link below. Follow the instructions and fill out the form.
https://community.emporis.com/pu/jo/?lng=3

oldmanshirt refers to this horrible-looking plaid shirt I own that was made circa early 80s. I wore it a few times in college and my roommate started referring to it as my "Old Man Shirt". But yeah, its a pretty hideous shirt, my wife hates it and won't let me wear it, and I only wish it were half as cool as a guaybera ;)

Haha, funny story. I had wondered what your forum name was about. :D The avatar makes it even funnier. lol

[sirkingwilliam]

If all that is true, then here are a few things to consider:
- Construction for tower 1 began in Dec 2006 (supposedly 60% sold). If they are waiting to announce tower 2 when 80% of tower 1 is built, that means they have not been able to sell an additional 20% in a year and a half.
- Announced condo projects on Houston St have been abandoned in favor of hotels.
- The condo projects that are proceeding downtown are on a much smaller scale. Larger scale projects seem to be favoring apartments.

Personally, I think developers were waiting to see how successful Vidorra would be and what it has shown is that the market just isn't there. The Vidorra developers hedged their bets as well by phasing in units. I would be surprised if Phase 2 is ever built. Wasn't there some federal or city funding involved with Vidorra as well?

I think that residences will still be developed on a more manageable scale in River North, off Broadway and on Flores (maybe even near UTSA downtown). It would be nice to just see those neighborhoods get established over the next 10 years.

Vidorra was never 60% sold upon start of construction. Where'd you get that?

Also, what condo projects on Houston St. were dropped in favor of Hotels? The only one was the Neisner building, which I assume you read about in the Nest Fest blog, which dropped condo plans after the building was sold to a new developer.

There was no city funding for Vidorra. The only money given was for the quiet zone, which wasn't much as the developer is paying for most of it themselves.

[kornbread]

Vidorra was never 60% sold upon start of construction. Where'd you get that?

Also, what condo projects on Houston St. were dropped in favor of Hotels? The only one was the Neisner building, which I assume you read about in the Nest Fest blog, which dropped condo plans after the building was sold to a new developer.

There was no city funding for Vidorra. The only money given was for the quiet zone, which wasn't much as the developer is paying for most of it themselves.

See SAKyles post. However, that's the number that's been thrown around here for a while. I never really believed it happened when ground was broken. I think that was mostly ceremonial. So what was the percentage and where are they now? The point is, the sales results have not been a catalyst for more projects.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/MYSA061006_1G_REvidorracondos_20dc5fdf_html.html


Presidian Cos. is expected to break ground on the first tower in September, if 60 percent of the units are presold.

Presidian, which is the first downtown condo developer to throw a hat east of Interstate 37, got a seven-year, $2.7 million tax credit from the city.


The main idea with redeveloping Houston Street was to attract locals back to downtown. This included residences. There was a nice article a while back that basically said it wasn't happening so now the attention has turned to visitors and hotels. Neisner is the first. What will happen with Kress and San Lorenzo? And, even though Vistana is technically on Houston St., I think it's location is more tied to UTSA than any dynamic happening on Houston.

I'm pretty sure the was some type of government funding involved with Vidorra beyond the quiet zone. I'll research this and post what I find.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/MYSA120905_03C_Condo_1c203d46_html.html

Financing from the International Bank of Commerce and Fannie Mae has been arranged. The funds will become available once 60 percent of the condos are under contract, and construction is scheduled to begin then, Leddy said.

The market is showing that you have to crawl before you walk. I see smaller projects happening and no phase 2 any time soon, if ever.

[texboy]

This would beg the question though Kornbread, what if the developers were holding back on telling us their numbers in order to get a jump on the market with their second project. What you are doing right now is purely speculating. We have heard no solid numbers from ANY of the projects going on right now in downtown. Please do not assume that just bc Vidorra II has not begun construction, that sales figures are low for this project. Just because tower two hasn't started yet, doesn't mean it won't ever. There are alot of logistical things to get through before beginning construction on a structure. For all we know they could be still in the planning stages of tower two at this point. Alot of times developers won't begin a second project (ie Koontz McCombs) until their first project is done.

[sakyle04]

The market is showing that you have to crawl before you walk. I see smaller projects happening and no phase 2 any time soon, if ever.

First, that was a great post.

I think that the above quote is the part which you have really nailed. I think we have seen a very slow embracing of the new DT/urban lifestyle here in SA. That probably has to do with our corporate mix and available developable suburban land vs. downtown SA land prices more than anything else, but it still is starting to look like fact that we in SA are just not really biting on high-rise living (from a buying standpoint) on the same level as similar cities.

That said, SA is crawling. And crawling does lead to walking...Alteza and Vidorra will grow the momentum in their own way and Vistana will expose a large number of potential buyers to the product without forcing them into a 30-year mortgage. River North looks like it will begin to be a little "safer" introduction into the urban idea, as people will not be in the core per se, but still participating in a more DT lifestyle.

Renters will become buyers eventually (and if nothing else they contribute to a more livable DT simply in their numbers which create a greater demand for services for a residential population). The real question is whether there will be reasonably affordable space in DT proper. South Flores is booming because it is only 150% the price per sf of the suburbs. Alteza is closer to 400% on a rough estimate. Vidorra is around 200%.

If we can get a few projects on the drawing board that would allow people to live in DT at 200% their current cost per sf I think we might have a tipping point. if we can't, then we will see more of the same - a growing urban identity with residential urbanity existing just outside the true core of DT.

(As a personal example, my wife and I spent 150% per sf over a suburban option to live close to DT...we would have lived in DT proper but were priced out and therefore chose to live 1.5 miles out in a single-family home.)

[alexjon]

I think part of River North will be affordable, just given the modelling they're doing. Using the examples of the Pearl District and the up-and-coming South Lake Union areas of Portland and Seattle, respectively, I'd say they'll throw in a mix. They've been following the examples and suggestions from the developers of those areas very closely.

However, I need to point out that this cart usually precedes the horse as it did with Portland's downtown redevelopment. They had every intention of getting to DT first and branching out to the Pearl District area, but it didn't go that way. The Pearl District came first and has lead to growth in the downtown Portland core.

Developers like a clean-slate, so I'd expect a lot of crawling until a rough build-out of River North and the inner eastside. The west end of DT and the inner westside may start out prior to a DT renaissance, but I wouldn't think those would go too quickly unless rail came through pretty quickly.

Downtown SA is crawling, but give it 5-10 years and it'll suddenly boom to keep pace with other inner areas.

[sakyle04]

However, I need to point out that this cart usually precedes the horse as it did with Portland's downtown redevelopment. They had every intention of getting to DT first and branching out to the Pearl District area, but it didn't go that way. The Pearl District came first and has lead to growth in the downtown Portland core.


Is this, then, as I assumed...? Was Pearl a sort of safe introduction into the urban living scene?

New construction, new infrastructure, new shops and restaurants (obviously re-use of old but the feeling is new)....almost all of the amenities of a new suburb except you happen to live on the third floor above a Starbucks and an attorney???

[kornbread]

First, that was a great post.

I think that the above quote is the part which you have really nailed. I think we have seen a very slow embracing of the new DT/urban lifestyle here in SA. That probably has to do with our corporate mix and available developable suburban land vs. downtown SA land prices more than anything else, but it still is starting to look like fact that we in SA are just not really biting on high-rise living (from a buying standpoint) on the same level as similar cities.

That said, SA is crawling. And crawling does lead to walking...Alteza and Vidorra will grow the momentum in their own way and Vistana will expose a large number of potential buyers to the product without forcing them into a 30-year mortgage. River North looks like it will begin to be a little "safer" introduction into the urban idea, as people will not be in the core per se, but still participating in a more DT lifestyle.

Renters will become buyers eventually (and if nothing else they contribute to a more livable DT simply in their numbers which create a greater demand for services for a residential population). The real question is whether there will be reasonably affordable space in DT proper. South Flores is booming because it is only 150% the price per sf of the suburbs. Alteza is closer to 400% on a rough estimate. Vidorra is around 200%.

If we can get a few projects on the drawing board that would allow people to live in DT at 200% their current cost per sf I think we might have a tipping point. if we can't, then we will see more of the same - a growing urban identity with residential urbanity existing just outside the true core of DT.

(As a personal example, my wife and I spent 150% per sf over a suburban option to live close to DT...we would have lived in DT proper but were priced out and therefore chose to live 1.5 miles out in a single-family home.)

Thanks and right back at you. It couldn't have been stated better.