[Complex01]

LOL, I swear if I ever need a good laugh i just have to look around the SSP Forum, there are some stories that play out on here...

Happy Christmas Ya'll...

:cheers:

[alexjon]

I wasn't trying to be smug with my last comment. Though you're overrating a bit Jon, as this is simply a discussion, though 21o is getting heated, on a medium that allows for it.

It's possible to be civil in any discussion.

[KevinFromTexas]

Wow! I mean, wow! If we had any doubt before that the Hyatt was shorter than the Marriott, then this single photo will squash that question. The Hyatt's mechanical penthouse is clearly higher than the Marriott's roof. Since Seije here on the forum was able to view the blueprints and get the heights for the Hyatt for us, that must mean that the Marriott is shorter than 441 to the roof.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/dgg1975/IMG_1140RForum.jpg

Frost just leases a majority of space in that building which is why it has its name on top. Frost had nothing to do with the design or building of that building. This is like a regional urban high rise myth now. lol

Very true. Frost Bank never developed the building or even had any kind of involvement with Cousins Properties (the developer of the building) in the development phase. The building was developed mostly on speculation. The market was calling for space, but they hadn't named an anchor tenant until a year and a half into construction. Originally the building was going to be called Congress at Fourth, referring to its location. The building broke ground on November 27, 2001 (my 21st birthday). Frost Bank signed on sometime in April of 2003 to take 52,000 square feet of space. With that they became the largest tenant in the building, which earned them the rights to the building's name.

Here's the article I wrote on May 13, 2003 when the story broke that Frost Bank would be a tenant in the building.

News: Major tenant signs at Congress at Fourth

Austin: Frost National Bank of San Antonio has taken 52,000 square feet of office space at Congress at Fourth in downtown Austin. The bank is now the anchor tenant for the building, which will change its name to Frost Bank Tower. The building, which will be the tallest building in Austin, is scheduled to be occupied in the first quarter of 2004.

Yes I do. Look at this picture. The restaraunt level of Tower of the Americas is supposed to be around 550'. If the spires were 546', then they should be lining up with the restaraunt level on the Tower. They're not even close, and heck the Tower is even farther back in the picture. Imagine if it was moved forward and adjacent to the Marriott. That would only make the Tower get bigger, and the Marriott seem even smaller.

That is really interesting. It certainly looks like you're right about that. Here are the heights that I've seen listed for the Tower of the Americas. These were listed in a very extensive booklet that was sold in lobby of the Tower of the Americas a few years ago.

750 feet to the top of the antenna.
622 feet to the top of the roof.
579 feet to the indoor observation floor.
560 feet to the outdoor observation deck.
550 feet to the restaurant level.

Now, I took these back in July from the Tower of the Americas outdoor deck, and as you can see the Marriott is clearly shorter, even to the spires.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/KevinFromTexas/San%20Antonio/P1090762EDIT.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/KevinFromTexas/San%20Antonio/P1090729EDIT.jpg


What I'm curious to see now is the view from the Tower of the Americas with the Hyatt topped out and comparing it to the Marriott nextdoor.

[ydoc14]

Original by Cobaltski @ Flickr

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7191/21207556506eb548d625bsj0.jpg

[ScizzoTX]

I'm back in SA for the holidays and had some time around 2PM to take this photo from Alamo stadium. I cropped it and blew it up to get a close-up view of the Hyatt, Marriott and tower together... Clearly the mechanical penthouse on the Hyatt is higher than the roof of the Marriott. It also looks like a lot of the color panels have been added to the facade.

Sorry for the washed out/low-res photo. Hopefully I'll get a chance to go out during better lighting to take some updated photos of the Hyatt with my good camera.



http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u289/scottlharrisosn/DSC_0004.jpg



Also, I drove by the Broadway site earlier today and it looks like they've started excavation of some sort, or at least site prep (there appeared to be a 10 foot deep hole). Does anyone have an update on that building?

[ydoc14]

I'm back in SA for the holidays and had some time around 2PM to take this photo from Alamo stadium. I cropped it and blew it up to get a close-up view of the Hyatt, Marriott and tower together... Clearly the mechanical penthouse on the Hyatt is higher than the roof of the Marriott. It also looks like a lot of the color panels have been added to the facade.

Sorry for the washed out/low-res photo. Hopefully I'll get a chance to go out during better lighting to take some updated photos of the Hyatt with my good camera.



http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u289/scottlharrisosn/DSC_0004.jpg



Also, I drove by the Broadway site earlier today and it looks like they've started excavation of some sort, or at least site prep (there appeared to be a 10 foot deep hole). Does anyone have an update on that building?

It looks like all of the windows are now multicolored, they must've put up multicolored curtains. Looks good I think :tup:

[KevinFromTexas]

Also, I drove by the Broadway site earlier today and it looks like they've started excavation of some sort, or at least site prep (there appeared to be a 10 foot deep hole). Does anyone have an update on that building?

Cool pic. The Hyatt is definitely taller then, at least to the roof.

As for the work at the Broadway, that sounds like they may have been taking soil samples. Were these just drilled holes? If so, then that's what that sounds like.

[JACKinBeantown]

It's too bad (and maybe it was intentional) that the tallest part of the Hyatt completely blocks the Marriott as far as its effect on the skyline from this angle and the reverse.

[ydoc14]

It looks like the top of the cabana structure is the same height as the Marriott's roof, which would make the Marriott around 387' to the roof?

[Mopacs]

The official heights of the ToA always seemed off to me. Perhaps its my perception or the slenderness of the tower, but it appears significantly taller than the surrounding Marriott and even Weston. We're talking from both the observation level and from distant perspectives.

[ydoc14]

The official heights of the ToA always seemed off to me. Perhaps its my perception or the slenderness of the tower, but it appears significantly taller than the surrounding Marriott and even Weston. We're talking from both the observation level and from distant perspectives.

That'd be cool if it was 750' to the roof and not the antenna haha, but it probably is 622'. Even so that's almost 200' taller than the Weston.

[ScizzoTX]

As for the work at the Broadway, that sounds like they may have been taking soil samples. Were these just drilled holes? If so, then that's what that sounds like.

No, the entire site is now a 10 foot deep hole with 2 dirt ramps leading down from surface level. I also saw a couple of people surveying in the pit as well... I think it's safe to say the Broadway is officially under contstruction.

I went by the site today and took a couple of pictures. I'll post them in the other SA thread in a minute.

[KevinFromTexas]

^ Oh, well then that does sound like they've started work. If they've already dug out then yes.

[kornbread]

No, the entire site is now a 10 foot deep hole with 2 dirt ramps leading down from surface level. I also saw a couple of people surveying in the pit as well...
That's one hell of a soil sample!

[KevinFromTexas]

I was in San Antonio on the 9th and took about 60 pics around downtown. We walked around downtown and of course headed down to the Riverwalk. It was beautiful.

Here's a few shots I took of the Grand Hyatt.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/2127807719_b5c1b6e2a2_o.jpg

The very top.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2128585084_d24ec6ba87_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2128584908_2597755ea1_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2128569504_2dc587fd81_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2067/2127792183_bcfe0b682c_o.jpg

[sirkingwilliam]

That's one hell of a soil sample!

lol

[Complex01]

I will be back in SA starting tommorw. I have lots of free time so i will have to check out all these updates and what not. That and i will be at the bar, he he...

:cheers:

[ydoc14]

I will be back in SA starting tommorw. I have lots of free time so i will have to check out all these updates and what not. That and i will be at the bar, he he...

:cheers:

Take some daytime pics of the Grand Hyatt if you can por favor :)

[ICEVET]

After reading the reluctance of the powers-that-be (review boards, etc) to sign off on certain high-rise projects downtown, I thought I'd share with the forum an old story.

Back in the 60s (when I was a teen) we had a family friend who worked downtown at the local office of a nationwide stock brokerage firm. While she was not an executive or a manager, she did rub elbows with the senior members of the firm on a daily basis. She and I shared an interest in local affairs, especially discussing possible reasons why Dallas and Houston had roared past San Antonio in terms of population, business activity and industrial development.

Some of the managers had told her that the Exxon corporation (it may have been Humble refining at the time) were actually thinking of locating their corporate HQ in SA. They were supposed to be extremely interested in a parcel of property south of downtown somewhere in the vicinity of Mission Conception and the old Mission ballpark. It was further reported that the parcel allegedly belonged to the city. The city dads saw a golden opportunity, but not the kind you would expect them to see today. Instead of donating the parcel outright to the oil company with a generous package of tax incentives, they jacked up the price to more than three times its market value. Exxon (or whatever it was called at the time), decided to pick up their toys and go play somewhere else. Of course, they built an incredible tower in downtown Houston.

Whether the prime motive of the city at that time was just to make a killing on the parcel or to dissuade the company ffrom locating here, their actions were a reflection of their mindset at the time, which was to keep the town a sleepy tourist destination with the military/fed as the only other economic generator. This also was the result of the city historically being in the stranglehold (both politically and economically) of about a half-dozen or so wealthy families. I'm interested to know if any members have also heard this story, and whether they can confirm it. I personally have no reason to think it is apocryphal.

I think we've come a long way since then (Toyota, Valero, Tesoro, USAA, AT&T, Clear Channel, etc.) but I also think there is still evidence that some of the old kind of thinking is alive and well with regard to downtown. Other forum members have indicated that the real estate in downtown SA is now the most expensive in the state. Tourism is responsible for that. So now about the only kind of businesses that can comfortably afford to locate and build downtown are hotels and other nationwide chains that thrive on tourism, and actually make their money by doing business downtown. I don't think the only motive in promoting tourism (and limiting the height of buildings) at the expense of everything else is to preseve the flora on the river. I actually believe that the city does not want major businesses putting up office towers downtown for fear that increased traffic and pedestrian congestion would drive away tourists. (Have they ever heard of New York?) It's probably the number one destination for tourists in several categories. It's a shame, but they've created a huge disincentive for major businesses to put towers downtown. I think the forum members who state we will not see more major office towers for 10-15 years are, unfortunately, right on.

Meanwhile, we give the green light to condo and apartment towers, which is O.K., in terms of maintaining the vitality of the area. By the way, whatever happened to the Kress project at 319 E. Houston? That would have made a nice little addition to our skyline. It was supposed to have closed more than six months ago, and we've heard not a peep.


Start off every day with a smile, and get it over with.

[Complex01]

:previous:

That is a very good story. Thank you ever so much for sharing it. I agree with it fully. It does make a lot of sence. I have heard something along those lines as to why the city is the way it is. Good stuff...

[ydoc14]

(Vidorra) Traffic cam from today, 12/24

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6753/640cctv0037s141184ih37aay7.jpg

[kornbread]

...Other forum members have indicated that the real estate in downtown SA is now the most expensive in the state. Tourism is responsible for that. So now about the only kind of businesses that can comfortably afford to locate and build downtown are hotels and other nationwide chains that thrive on tourism, and actually make their money by doing business downtown. I don't think the only motive in promoting tourism (and limiting the height of buildings) at the expense of everything else is to preseve the flora on the river. I actually believe that the city does not want major businesses putting up office towers downtown for fear that increased traffic and pedestrian congestion would drive away tourists. (Have they ever heard of New York?) It's probably the number one destination for tourists in several categories. It's a shame, but they've created a huge disincentive for major businesses to put towers downtown. I think the forum members who state we will not see more major office towers for 10-15 years are, unfortunately, right on.
...

I would question whether SA has the most expensive real estate downtown or any where else for that matter.

I think the city would love to have more office buildings in downtown. The problem is there is little demand and there are no incentives for the demand to be in the CBD. That is why no space will be built in the near future.

There are plenty of areas in the CBD to develop away from the hotels. If anything property owners who are hoping to cash in big are a bigger roadblock than the city is.

[sirkingwilliam]

Didn't Andres say the South Bank complex downtown recently sold for (can't remember the amount) and that that was the highest piece of properties sold in the state of Texas per square foot?

[sirkingwilliam]

They're working on the 11th floor at Vidorra.

[BSofA04]

Has anyone else noticed that the main crane for the Grand Hyatt has been taken down? I was driving home from work today and noticed that it was gone.

[Complex01]

:previous:

I think its been down for a while. It was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Anyhow i was downtown today taking pics, and my camera died, what the hell. Saddness all around...

:(

[ICEVET]

Didn't Andres say the South Bank complex downtown recently sold for (can't remember the amount) and that that was the highest piece of properties sold in the state of Texas per square foot?

Actually, he was the forum member I was specifically referring to in my original message, but memories are short, and you and I may be the only ones who honed in on that remarkable bit of trivia.

[KevinFromTexas]

Does anyone know if the Staybridge in Sunset Station is officially completed yet? Are they still doing any kind of construction? Is it open for business?

[alexjon]

:previous:

I think its been down for a while. It was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Anyhow i was downtown today taking pics, and my camera died, what the hell. Saddness all around...

:(

If it was a battery problem, I could point you to some downtown places that have the cheapest batteries you can find in the inner loop... shhhhh.

[jaga185]

the staybridge is open for business already.

[ydoc14]

All taken on 12/28 by paul is just dandy @ Flickr (who I think is Boquillas on here...guess I did your job for ya :haha: )

The first picture leaves me speechless.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/2145120152_f1cdb31bde_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2094/2144316699_e4fdaf499b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2108/2144325859_b63ba4115a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2144314975_1d4f29ae3b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2136/2145109330_e9a9dd3f25_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2003/2144321277_6bb9c71c21_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2016/2144321989_3bdfe1a333_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2223/2145133412_737c06bcc0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2172/2144332543_a55510d5ac_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/2145111150_9e61e1b246_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/2144338873_8abf3940ce_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/2144342377_35e943dc25_b.jpg

[Boquillas]

Wow, Ydoc14, that was fast! :worship: And good detective work-- I am indeed Paul is Just Dandy. I don't go by Paul here because, well, I want to avoid confusion with another *ahem* "popular" forumer. Well, I was going to repost these on this forum, but now I don't have to. But check out the complete thread here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=143453

[Dom"n"Converse]

All those power lines make downtown look so hideous.

[KevinFromTexas]

the staybridge is open for business already.

Cool thanks. Yeah, they had a "Now Open" banner on the upper floors back in July when I went up into the tower, but I wasn't sure if they'd finished all the work just yet, especially interior stuff.

Great pics there Boquillas. That first shot is really amazing. All of them are great, but the one I was really happy to see was the one of the Hyatt from the tower. That mechanical penthouse really is up there, and no doubt higher than the roof of the Marriott. I'm curious, do you remember if the Hyatt blocks the view of the Alamo or not? I hope it doesn't, I always enjoyed being able to see it from the Tower of the Americas. And I see Vidorra is up to the 11th, not the 9th floor. Sweet!

[Boquillas]

Thanks, Kevin! Yes, the Alamo is still visible from the tower, although most of the tourists still can't recognize it from the side and back. :rolleyes: I was hoping the Grand Hyatt would be visible from the elevator [it isn't], because that would be the most accurate way of judging its height vis a vis the Marriot Rivercenter. When the top of the penthouse is at the same level as the horizon, then it would be at eye level, and if the Marriot's pyramids were any higher or lower, then we would have our answer. I think the restaurant uses a different elevator-- one that faces east. If so, you could accurately judge the relative heights of the two hotels from that elevator. So, SA forumers-- get out there and eat in the tower restaurant, and report back! As for me, I'm flying out of this burgh tomorrow and back to the frozen wasteland of Montana. But expect some Dallas pics in late Feb!

[potts]

All those power lines make downtown look so hideous.

I must agree. I've always wondered why San Antonio has such an over-abundance of power lines. To me it looks like a sprawling megapolis in India or Iran. Throw in some cow-drawn buggies and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between SA and Mumbai.

[sirkingwilliam]

To be fair, none of those power lines in any of those pictures is in the downtown area. Downtown for the most part is powerline free.

[verbl]

STUNNING. thank you these are great pics

[sirkingwilliam]

Great work Paul.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2017/2144321635_31b4597320_b.jpg

This area east of downtown (East Town and Dignowity Park) has so much potential.

[KevinFromTexas]

Thanks, Kevin! Yes, the Alamo is still visible from the tower, although most of the tourists still can't recognize it from the side and back. :rolleyes: I was hoping the Grand Hyatt would be visible from the elevator [it isn't], because that would be the most accurate way of judging its height vis a vis the Marriot Rivercenter. When the top of the penthouse is at the same level as the horizon, then it would be at eye level, and if the Marriot's pyramids were any higher or lower, then we would have our answer. I think the restaurant uses a different elevator-- one that faces east. If so, you could accurately judge the relative heights of the two hotels from that elevator. So, SA forumers-- get out there and eat in the tower restaurant, and report back! As for me, I'm flying out of this burgh tomorrow and back to the frozen wasteland of Montana. But expect some Dallas pics in late Feb!

Yeah, now that you mention it I've never been in the elevator facing the Marriott and Hyatt. For a minute I actually questioned whether there was even one on that side. I do know the elevator on the west side does go up to the restaurant. I've never been up to the restaurant, but one time while I was coming down our elevator stopped for the restaurant level to let someone get on. It was funny because the mood of that level was completely different from the observation deck. Next time I go up, (or anyone else), I'll ask to see if the one facing downtown is available. However, it may just be that they only use both when it gets busy.

I'm glad to hear that the view of the Alamo is still there. The last time I was up in July I actually overheard someone on the deck ask where the Alamo is. Someone, their dad I think, pointed it out, which I thought was cool. Actually, one of the first things I was interested in seeing the first time I really got to explore downtown was going to the backside of the Alamo and walking around and exploring it. You always see the typical touristy shots of it, but it's neat to see what it looks like from the rear.

Here's a pic I took from the TotA deck in July.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/KevinFromTexas/San%20Antonio/P1090705EDIT.jpg

All those power lines make downtown look so hideous.

To be fair, none of those power lines in any of those pictures is in the downtown area. Downtown for the most part is powerline free.

I sort of have a love hate relationship with power lines. In downtown I can't stand them, bad for photos with them being distracting, and of course they're unsightly. In certain places they can be almost artistic in a photo, like Boquillas' photos above. Looking down the wide street with the power lines framing it and sort of leading your eye to the subject (downtown). Also the sort of raw urban gritty industrial, utilitarian look can be cool in certain places.

The picture below was taken on Austin's east side, just a few blocks east of I-35 in Northeast Austin. I liked how the power lines kind of frame the view to the west of the UT Campus highrises.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/KevinFromTexas/Austin%20pics/P1140887EDIT.jpg

If it makes you feel any better, we have power lines, at least a group of them, across the street from our new tallest building. I suspect they'll be buried once the building is complete, but for now, yeah, they're there.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/KevinFromTexas/Austin%202007%20forum%20meet/P1150810EDIT.jpg

[KevinFromTexas]

I found this, and thought some of you might like to see it. I thought it was pretty neat. I've been uploading my pictures onto Emporis that I took back in July in San Antonio. While looking for some info about the Municipal Auditorium, I ran across some original drawings for the Tower Life Building.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/apl/blakeschoice/ayres.html

[ydoc14]

I found this, and thought some of you might like to see it. I thought it was pretty neat. I've been uploading my pictures onto Emporis that I took back in July in San Antonio. While looking for some info about the Municipal Auditorium, I ran across some original drawings for the Tower Life Building.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/apl/blakeschoice/ayres.html

Interesting, looks like the antenna was considerably smaller and there was another crown (correct word escapes me) at the very top.

[KevinFromTexas]

I don't think the antenna was added until the 50s. I've seen a few old skyline shots with it missing that were from before then.

[texastarkus]

I don't think the antenna was added until the 50s. I've seen a few old skyline shots with it missing that were from before then.

I always felt that was/is the classiest building in the state.

[KevinFromTexas]

What's the name of that round building in downtown near the tower with the flower design on the roof?

I found an article from 1989 talking about the construction wrapping up on the then NBC Bank Plaza (known as the Bank of America Plaza today).
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE6D81F38F934A35756C0A96F948260&sec=&spon=

[S.A.]

What's the name of that round building in downtown near the tower with the flower design on the roof?

I believe its La Villita Assembly Hall.

[Complex01]

Hi all. Here are the pics I took while I was in San Antonio. Enjoy, I am headed back to my home, Houston... :cool:

DownTown

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/SA1.jpg

Vistana


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vistana1.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vistana2.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vistana3.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vistana4.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vistana6.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vistana5.jpg


Grand Hyatt

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Grand1.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/alamov1.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/alamov2.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/grand2.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/sunset1.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Grand3.jpg

Vidorra

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/vidorra7.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/sunset2.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vidorra6.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vidorra5.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vidorra4.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vidorra3.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/Vidorra1.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/vidorra2.jpg

Random

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/alamov4.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/alamov3.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/am4ever7/alamov5.jpg


Hope you enjoyed...

:yes:

[METALMiKE]

Thanks man those are awesome.

[Boquillas]

Thanks for the great set of pics! Lots of progress with Vistana! It's sizeable at 4 stories--imagine that sucker at 17 stories! Thanks again!

[ydoc14]

Based on the last three pics...downtown has shaped up nicely!

[ydoc14]

What's the name of that round building in downtown near the tower with the flower design on the roof?

I found an article from 1989 talking about the construction wrapping up on the then NBC Bank Plaza (known as the Bank of America Plaza today).
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE6D81F38F934A35756C0A96F948260&sec=&spon=

It's the Weston Centre :)

[KevinFromTexas]

Great pics again, Complex01.

I believe its La Villita Assembly Hall.

Thanks, that's it! I tried and tried to find the name, but didn't turn anything up.

It's the Weston Centre :)

That's right. For some reason I thought it was Bank of America Plaza. I actually have a few old (1990s) postcards of San Antonio that show downtown from that side with an 'NBC Plaza' sign above a parking garage.

[ydoc14]

Taken by U-EET @ Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2020/2168303795_a08c9e8158_o.jpg

[ydoc14]

Pure speculation here...but what if the 424' figure is for the roof and not the mech. penthouse. If it was, that could make sense as to why the roof looks around 20' shorter than the Marriott's roof (assuming in this case the Marriott's roof is indeed 441'). I guess it's either the Marriott is shorter than it's supposed to be, or the Hyatt is taller than it's supposed to be.

[verbl]

Sweet pic, one of the best I have seen! thanks a lot keep up the stellar work

[alexjon]

Are they on time so far?

[sirkingwilliam]

Does anyone have a recent rendering for the Courtyard going up on St. Mary's?

[ydoc14]

Didn't wanna start a new thread for this, not really an update though, but this pic was in this weeks Business Journal and it looks to be a view from the Weston Centre which I thought was kinda cool to see.

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/107277-400-0.jpg?rev=2

[kornbread]

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/107277-400-0.jpg?rev=2
Remember the Sprint phone commercial?

man in photo: "Let's just say it's my way of 'sticking it' to the man!"
forum poster: "but you ARE the man"
man in photo: "I know"
forum poster: "So you're 'sticking it' to yourself"
man in photo: "maybe..."

[ydoc14]

Here's a better view from the Weston Centre ;)

Taken by dreamr426 @ Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2352/2180657868_9cb0f411df_b.jpg

[MichaelB]

I found this, and thought some of you might like to see it. I thought it was pretty neat. I've been uploading my pictures onto Emporis that I took back in July in San Antonio. While looking for some info about the Municipal Auditorium, I ran across some original drawings for the Tower Life Building.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/apl/blakeschoice/ayres.html

Kev... great link... so as to not highjack this threat... might you post this to one of the Austin threads.... there is great infomation on UT tower and other UT buildings

[KevinFromTexas]

What key words are you typing in to find that? Great find!

[verbl]

Hey my fellow SA lovers, I was wondering if at all one of you guys( or girls ) who were familiar with the editing function on wikipedia could possibly put a more flattering picture of San Antonio on the website. From all the great pics you guys put up on this site i'm sure that you can put up a picture that will show our city they way it should be seen, and not like it is now it looks like we live in squaller we all know that is not true. Well fellas we should do this we can make it look great plz lets make it happen if I have any pics i will gladly send them to whom ever needs them. thank you

[ydoc14]

Hey my fellow SA lovers, I was wondering if at all one of you guys( or girls ) who were familiar with the editing function on wikipedia could possibly put a more flattering picture of San Antonio on the website. From all the great pics you guys put up on this site i'm sure that you can put up a picture that will show our city they way it should be seen, and not like it is now it looks like we live in squaller we all know that is not true. Well fellas we should do this we can make it look great plz lets make it happen if I have any pics i will gladly send them to whom ever needs them. thank you

I was just looking at the SA wikipedia site. Somebody put the Weston Centre and the Marriott Rivercenter up in the downtown section...however they put the Marriott as being the tallest building, and I'm bugged that the Weston Centre is really the tallest. The heights really need to be nailed down guys, but there's nothing we can do except keep guessing what they are.

Yeah I'll try and see what I can do to the SA site picture wise and info wise ;) I'm thinking about putting something in about the Marriott being shorter, etc.

[ydoc14]

What's the typical ceiling height for a hotel room? 10'? Trying to further guesstimate the Marriott here...

[Schertz1]

I was just looking at the SA wikipedia site. Somebody put the Weston Centre and the Marriott Rivercenter up in the downtown section...however they put the Marriott as being the tallest building, and I'm bugged that the Weston Centre is really the tallest. The heights really need to be nailed down guys, but there's nothing we can do except keep guessing what they are.

Yeah I'll try and see what I can do to the SA site picture wise and info wise ;) I'm thinking about putting something in about the Marriott being shorter, etc.


Do spires, now, all of a sudden not count? If they count the Marriott is still the tallest.

[ydoc14]

Do spires, now, all of a sudden not count? If they count the Marriott is still the tallest.

No, I'm still counting the spires in my reasoning...look at them in pics, they're not that tall. I doubt that the Weston would be significantly higher though. The Weston may almost come to the spires, or barely go over them, who knows :shrug:

I probably wont put anything about it on Wiki since we don't know for sure. I'll just look into the pictures.

[Boquillas]

Hey my fellow SA lovers, I was wondering if at all one of you guys( or girls ) who were familiar with the editing function on wikipedia could possibly put a more flattering picture of San Antonio on the website. From all the great pics you guys put up on this site i'm sure that you can put up a picture that will show our city they way it should be seen, and not like it is now it looks like we live in squaller we all know that is not true. Well fellas we should do this we can make it look great plz lets make it happen if I have any pics i will gladly send them to whom ever needs them. thank you

I don't see anything wrong with the picture at all. What's wrong with it, if you don't mind me asking? (I didn't take it, by the way, just curious.)

[ydoc14]

I looked at changing pictures. To use a picture, the person who took it has to give permission for it to be used on Wikipedia.

[verbl]

I looked at changing pictures. To use a picture, the person who took it has to give permission for it to be used on Wikipedia.
Darn.. well I think we can up up with something

[verbl]

I don't see anything wrong with the picture at all. What's wrong with it, if you don't mind me asking? (I didn't take it, by the way, just curious.)

Look at the other pics of the largest cities they take the pics that show off the best parts of DT and make it look the best it can. Our pic makes SA look like a small desert town imo or something

[ydoc14]

Darn.. well I think we can up up with something

What we need is somebody on here to go take a skyline shot from the Hillcrest/Babcock area (Balcones Heights). This angle is the best imo, and I haven't seen one from here since the GH got topped out.

[MichaelB]

I don't see anything wrong with the picture at all. What's wrong with it, if you don't mind me asking? (I didn't take it, by the way, just curious.)

I was curious, so I looked.... I would agree the main pic needs to change. Any photo with an Expressway in the foreground is not very iniviting. (much less a good photo) What does it say about the city? There are such better more inviting views of downtown. Something closer that could show the texture of the skyline! Even the photos of Houston street could be better. How could they not have a mission? ( certainly they could loose at least one of the THREE hotel shots!) Glad you guys are on top of it!

[Boquillas]

I think it's a pretty darn good photo. The composition is quite strong. Wikipedia is not a travel guide. I don't see why we should have some false or misleading representation of the city on an information website. We as San Antonians need to escape this mentality of eschewing unfavorable comparisons and embrace our real identities. That's the only way progress will be made in the city. Not by hiding behind some romantic, idealized misrepresentation. You want towers? You won't get any by continuing to claim that everything is great in downtown San Antonio.

[arbeiter]

I think it's a pretty darn good photo. The composition is quite strong. Wikipedia is not a travel guide. I don't see why we should have some false or misleading representation of the city on an information website. We as San Antonians need to escape this mentality of eschewing unfavorable comparisons and embrace our real identities. That's the only way progress will be made in the city. Not by hiding behind some romantic, idealized misrepresentation. You want towers? You won't get any by continuing to claim that everything is great in downtown San Antonio.

I agree, but the picture isn't very flattering no matter how you slice it.

[Boquillas]

Oh, I don't think it's flattering. But it's such a nontraditional view of the city--looking east from UTSA downtown-- that it is interesting. I particularly like the clouds, and the triangle of grass. I think the most flattering views of the city-- where it looks its densest, are from the median (turning lane) of Fredericksburg Rd southeast of the Medical intersection. This is where Fred Rd ascends the second of three "steps" in the Balcones Escarpment, and DT is appropriately foreshortened, disguising the gap between the TofA and the rest of DT. But one would have to be crazy to walk out to the turning lane and take a shot from there...

[verbl]

I mean all the pics that our fellow posters have put up here on this site blow that pic away and if I knew how to edit I would have put one up there from the person who took it ( with their permission of course ). Good point about wiki not being a travel guide but on the other hand if you look a the phoenix pic it looks good and imo we have a better skyline that they do but people who have seen that on wiki wont know that SA's is better due to the sorry pic we have.

[MichaelB]

Re: Boquillas

I'll spare everyone the debate on photographic compositoion...

However, IMHO... there are two issues here. One is your feeling that there are issues that need to be addressed within SA... and you wanting folks to be a bit more real about it. OK. got it. The forum is a great place to debate that. The other, however, is a question of how you come together to present your city in the best possible light to guests from around the world. Each has it's own place.

I Can't imagine you would not want to put your best foot forward on a site where many people will get all the info they will ever know about SA! I would not want to air my cities "unflatering laundry" in such a way. Every city is a beautiful city if you know where to look.... why not give folks a clue... instead of a view of a blah traffic laden highway with an unlandscaped foreground and the promise of a more interesting cityscape somewhere beyond the big white baracade! ( oh, crap I went there, sorry)

[ydoc14]

Besides the pics, the downtown section needs to be completely re-written, badly. For crying out loud whoever wrote it put that the Rivercenter mall is in the central business district :jester:

Well, I love to write, so I think I'll take a stab at it.

[verbl]

Re: Boquillas

I'll spare everyone the debate on photographic compositoion...

However, IMHO... there are two issues here. One is your feeling that there are issues that need to be addressed within SA... and you wanting folks to be a bit more real about it. OK. got it. The forum is a great place to debate that. The other, however, is a question of how you come together to present your city in the best possible light to guests from around the world. Each has it's own place.

I Can't imagine you would not want to put your best foot forward on a site where many people will get all the info they will ever know about SA! I would not want to air my cities "unflatering laundry" in such a way. Every city is a beautiful city if you know where to look.... why not give folks a clue... instead of a view of a blah traffic laden highway with an unlandscaped foreground and the promise of a more interesting cityscape somewhere beyond the big white baracade! ( oh, crap I went there, sorry)

A fair and honest post. I agree with you 100% I wish I could have said it better myself but you took the words right out of my mouth:)

[KevinFromTexas]

Skylines look best shot from a park near downtown. I think if you can combine nature/green with urban than you're doing good.

Look at the skyline pages for Texas cities:

Fort Worth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FortWorthTexasSkylineW.jpg
Dallas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dallas%2C_Texas_Skyline_2005.jpg
Houston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Houston_Skyline.jpg
Austin (This one is new)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Milago.jpg
El Paso's :uhh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DowntownEP.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:El_Paso_Skyline2.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:El_paso_city.jpg (this is the best)

[verbl]

Skylines look best shot from a park near downtown. I think if you can combine nature/green with urban than you're doing good.

Look at the skyline pages for Texas cities:

Fort Worth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FortWorthTexasSkylineW.jpg
Dallas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dallas%2C_Texas_Skyline_2005.jpg
Austin (This one is new)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Milago.jpg
El Paso's :uhh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DowntownEP.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:El_Paso_Skyline2.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:El_paso_city.jpg (this is the best)

great pic of Fort Worth. The Austin one looks great as well, all the pics have one thing in common and that is GREAT COMPOSITION. the pic of Austin uses the thirds concept to the T. ( lol my photojournalism class )

[ydoc14]

Ok here's what I've got so far. I haven't put it on Wiki yet because I want yall to read it and see if anything should be changed, added, etc.



Downtown San Antonio is the heart of the city’s culture and tourism. Beautiful, historic, and festive, downtown is home to the famous River Walk and The Alamo.

Bordered by I-10/U.S. 90, I-35, and I-37/U.S. 281, downtown is easily accessible from Austin, Dallas, El Paso, Fort Worth, Houston, Laredo, and other cities throughout the state. Major streets, such as Broadway, East Commerce, Fredericksburg, South Flores, San Pedro, and West Martin, link downtown to the rest of the city.

The downtown skyline is most noticeably characterized by six prominent skyscrapers: Tower of the Americas, Marriott Rivercenter, Weston Centre, Grand Hyatt San Antonio, Tower Life, and Bank of America Plaza. Tower of the Americas, the tallest at 622’, is an observation tower, icon, and forty-year old landmark.

Downtown consists of several districts such as the Alamo District (home to its namesake, The Alamo), the Central Business District (known for the Weston Centre and Bank of America Plaza), the Convention Center District (home to the Henry B. Gonzales Convention Center, along with two 1000+ room hotels – Marriott Rivercenter [with adjacent Rivercenter Mall] and Grand Hyatt San Antonio), the Houston Street District (known for its urban revitilization and the global headquarters of AT&T), the King William Historic District and La Villita District (home to some of the city’s original neighborhoods with La Villita dating back to the founding of San Antonio), the Market Square District (located in the western portion of downtown and is home to El Mercado [an outdoor shopping venue resembling the public markets of Mexico]), the River Bend District (the most visited district in downtown--home to the River Walk and its multitude of shops, restaraunts, and hotels), and River North & SoFlo (the two newest districts to undergo aggressive revitilization geared toward urban living).

Several celebrations are also held downtown throughout the year, with the largest being Fiesta. A river parade is also held annualy during the Christmas season to celebrate the lighting of the River Walk with thousands of Christmas lights. And, when the San Antonio Spurs win a NBA Championship, the city holds a river parade to celebrate.

[KevinFromTexas]

That sounds good.

[verbl]

^^^ I second that

[Boquillas]

Hey--I've nothing to say re: the content of the Wikipedia article. I'm only discussing the photo, which I don't have any issues with. Question my sense of aesthetics if you want, but I think there are more worthwhile things we as a community can put our energy into than concerning ourselves with a photo on an information website that casts the city in a less than flattering light according to skyscraper enthusiasts. Other visitors to the site have different priorities vis-à-vis what content is of import to them, and aesthetic considerations may be on a lower rung for the majority of visitors than it is for architecture fans.

[KevinFromTexas]

^ Agreed. Tourists may visit San Antonio and love the buildings, but I doubt many of them actually care at all about architecture or recognize quality architecture when they see it (read cheap hotel designs). They may love the street scape and the Riverwalk, but otherwise be repulsed by density. (I know people like this).

[kornbread]

Which is yours and which is original?

Is this to replace the downtown section? I think what's written sounds horrible.

There is really nothing useful at all written there. Some is really puzzling. For example:

...downtown is easily accessible from Austin, Dallas, El Paso, Fort Worth, Houston, Laredo, and other cities throughout the state...

I'm not sure what this is trying to say. Because they share an interstate?

and

Downtown consists of several districts...


I've never referred to these places as districts, nor seen them referred to that way publicly anywhere. Convention Center district? If someone is standing by the Hilton waiting to cross Alamo, at what point do they cross from the River Bend district to the convention center to la villita district?

There's also details that don't really speak about city in a meaningful way such as the streets and skyline (Tower is the exception).

If you want to rewrite the downtown section, I would not use what's there as a starting point, I would look for examples elsewhere (see Fort Worth).

[ydoc14]

Which is yours and which is original?

Is this to replace the downtown section? I think what's written sounds horrible.

There is really nothing useful at all written there. Some is really puzzling. For example:

I'm not sure what this is trying to say. Because they share an interstate?

and


I've never referred to these places as districts, nor seen them referred to that way publicly anywhere. Convention Center district? If someone is standing by the Hilton waiting to cross Alamo, at what point do they cross from the River Bend district to the convention center to la villita district?

There's also details that don't really speak about city in a meaningful way such as the streets and skyline (Tower is the exception).

If you want to rewrite the downtown section, I would not use what's there as a starting point, I would look for examples elsewhere (see Fort Worth).

Yeah I think the whole FW page is good. I say forget just the downtown part of the SA page, the whole thing needs to be redone.

[ydoc14]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/images/gbl_logo.gif
New Hyatt will not open as scheduled

Web Posted: 01/12/2008 12:51 AM CST

Stacia Willson
KENS 5 Eyewitness News

With 37 stories and more than a thousand rooms, the new Grand Hyatt Hotel won’t be ready on time.

Construction has fallen behind on the multi-million dollar hotel, and it won’t open in three weeks.

Just last week, employees at the Hyatt Regency said everything was on schedule for the hotel to open on Feb. 6. But today, the company sent a statement admitting things have fallen behind by at least three weeks.

Construction is in full swing at the newest location, but there is still plenty of work that needs to be done.

The statement says the final stage of construction is not yet “appropriate for customers” and that “it is more prudent to allow three more weeks to finish out the job.”


More coverage
KENS video: http://www2.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/video/NewsOnDemand/index.cfm?videos=50612 (Watch the broadcast)



Last week, those representing Faulkner USA, the company handling the construction, issued a statement assuring the public that the keys would be handed over by next month.

Meanwhile, KENS 5 has learned that at least one event has already been cancelled. About 500 to 600 people planning on attending a gala at the Hyatt on Feb. 23 have been redirected to the Marriot River Center.

That is raising questions about additional reservations, including bookings for March Madness. The Hyatt Downtown is designated as the headquarters hotel for the Final Four college basketball championships.

Numerous calls to Faulkner were not returned.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA011108.HYATT.kens.13aa061b.html

[texboy]

I had a feeling that was going to happen...Im kind of shocked actually that it isn't later, with all the rain we had last year, its a wonder that thing isn't TWO MONTHS behind schedule!

[Complex01]

Very sad to hear...

Tragic to say the least...

:(

[KevinFromTexas]

I had a feeling that was going to happen...Im kind of shocked actually that it isn't later, with all the rain we had last year, its a wonder that thing isn't TWO MONTHS behind schedule!

That and that worker falling. In case anyone is wondering, I don't like Faulkner.

At least one of the residential highrises in Austin is about 45 days behind schedule. I would blame this also on the weather. With at least 13 inches of rain more last year than we're used to getting, it's no big wonder why it's behind schedule.

[matttwentyeight]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA011308.01.GrandHyatt.28fa49e.html

Hyatt implements backup plan

Web Posted: 01/12/2008 10:52 PM CST

Melissa S. Monroe
Express-News
Although the builder of the city's new convention center hotel insists it will be ready by Feb. 6, officials of the luxury Grand Hyatt San Antonio aren't taking any chances of a late opening.
City officials confirmed Saturday that Hyatt alerted the city this week that it's relocating meetings it had scheduled up to Feb. 25 to other hotels in the city — 19 days from when the hotel is supposed to be open.

But Grand Hyatt's general contractor, Austin-based FaulknerUSA, maintains it's going to be ready by Feb. 6, when penalties kick in.

"Hyatt prefers not to take a chance rather than deal with it at the 11th hour. They have already booked meeting space at the Convention Center," said Michael Sawaya, the city's director of convention sports and entertainment facilities.

The 1,000-room hotel in downtown San Antonio is owned by Hotel Investments LP, which includes partial owners of Hyatt and FaulknerUSA. The luxury-hotel project was plagued with an abundant amount of rain last year and legal disputes.

The $285 million hotel will boast about 90,000 square feet of meeting space and 147 residential condos adjacent to the Convention Center.

Despite its challenges along the way, FaulknerUSA's spokespeople maintain the hotel will be open early next month.

"FaulknerUSA is scheduled to turn the keys over to Hyatt on Feb. 6," said Bruce Kates, a spokesman for FaulknerUSA.

Hyatt officials could not be reached by deadline.

But Scott Lane, the Grand Hyatt's director of sales and marketing, previously said the hotel is booked to more than 70 percent occupancy in its opening month. He also said the hotel was on pace to have the highest amount of bookings for any Hyatt opening.

Sawaya said he wasn't sure which groups were being moved to other Hyatt and Marriott hotels.

One possibility is a retailing conference scheduled for Feb. 11-13 at the Grand Hyatt, which is supposed to lure 300 people.

Sawaya added FaulknerUSA hasn't alerted the city it won't open on time. He said the contractor could face monetary fines if it's not open by Feb. 6.

The project's challenges are not all bad news for some.

"We are ready to help with any of their customers," said Marriott's area general manager, Arthur Coulombe.

mmonroe@express-news.net

[KevinFromTexas]

One thing though is that the building doesn't necessarily have to be 100 percent finished before its grand opening. I doubt construction would be going on while hotel guests are present, but it wouldn't be unheard of to have even that happen. Some of the residential buildings in Austin that are still wrapping up construction actually have a handful of residents living in the building already. Basically they're there as guinea pigs to work out the kinks.

[arbeiter]

One thing though is that the building doesn't necessarily have to be 100 percent finished before its grand opening. I doubt construction would be going on while hotel guests are present, but it wouldn't be unheard of to have even that happen. Some of the residential buildings in Austin that are still wrapping up construction actually have a handful of residents living in the building already. Basically they're there as guinea pigs to work out the kinks.

I've heard of this - I think hotels even offer special rates for that. I know they do when they're renovating an existing building.

[ydoc14]

Taken by jritch77 @ Flickr on 1/11

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/2200926690_86f01ee65f_b.jpg

Not really an update picture, but still taken by the same person:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2309/2200135685_e4e7985cb8_b.jpg

[KevinFromTexas]

What building is that infront of the Drury Plaza Hotel? It looks like it's under construction with that yellow skin.

[ydoc14]

What building is that infront of the Drury Plaza Hotel? It looks like it's under construction with that yellow skin.

It's still the Drury Plaza - they built more rooms on top of the garage.

[J.Dskyhigh]

I was looking through some proposals and was just wondering if anyone knows the status of that 319 houston st. building? I saw the location and thought a 300 footer would look great in that area.