[jonnyz1245]

I am looking at buying a unit in the Wyatt or the Encore.

I have heard contradicting things regarding offering 10% off a new unit. Some say go for it, other say it will never happen.

I ama frist time buyer and obviously want to get a fair deal. I know PDX is not taking a hit like the rest of the USA but I do see a lot of inventory in pearl condos compared to last year and two years ago...

so, should I write up and offer for a unit at 5% or 10% off, 2 years HOA fees and seller pays closing? It is an all cash deal so no financing snafus to worry about.

thanks for your help

[mhays]

I haven't heard of this and don't really know.

The all-cash part could be worth something. But only if you give them the full price in advance, or at least put it all in escrow so there's no risk to them. Maybe it would help their cash flow and financing situation, i.e. save an equivalent amount for the developer. On the other hand, if you have the money a long way out, you can invest it too.

But I wouldn't expect prices to fall that much even if the market gets more squishy. They probably think they can sell the units for full price or similar.

In truth, they'll probably say no*, and you can simply take a chance that prices will come down later, which I don't think will happen to any great extent. *They won't offer to "call if prices come down" because that would be negotiating from weakness.

[360Rich]

A lot of time on new construction, the seller/builder will give you upgrades (nicer fixtures, granite, free washer/dryer etc.) rather than drop the sales price.

Reduced or free HOA fees may be possible as well.

Lowering the sales price is typically the last thing a builder of new construction wants to do, as all other future buyers will know your purchase price, and expect the same. If they offer you upgrades, it easier to conceal from other buyers.

Are you working with a buyers agent? If so, they may be able to give you some insight as to what others have gotten, or what the builder may be willing to do, through their network of contacts.

The "all cash deal" is overrated. If you have proof of a pre-approved mortgage, and you don't have a bunch of contingencies written into your offer, a conventionally funded purchase turns out to be the same in the end (cash at closing).

Best of luck. I envy your position.

On a side note; If you have cash saved up to purchase a condo in full, have you considered taking out a mortgage (in the 6% range), and investing the cash elsewhere? Historically, a 6% rate of return has been beatable in the broad market.

[Leo]

Price drops usually don’t happen until the unit is already built; I think they’re relatively rare in the preconstruction phase (discounted upgrades are more likely). In addition, I think Portland’s boom-bust cycle is lagging behind most other metro areas, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some of Portland’s developers still act as if this boom will last forever (particularly Robert Ball, since he has no condo experience outside the current boom).

I would try it and see what happens. What is the worst thing that could happen? Unless preconstruction contracts are flying off the shelves, you will get a chance to raise your offer if the 90% bid is rejected. (Personally, I think the Wyatt is overpriced, so I would guess you won’t be the only one with a reduced bid.)

[jonnyz1245]

as you said, what is the worst thing that can happen.

I know contracts are not flying off the shelf. I have been over there a couple times in the last month and sales have been slow but steady. according to updated price sheets I have, about 10 units sold in the last 3 or 4 weeks for a total of 49 out of 245.

I know that about 20 of those sales came from early sales for the units with the huge decks. some units on the third or 4th floor have 400-800 square foot decks. I am sure those went on day 1 or 2.

I agree that it is overpriced but I also think it is a nice building and the units will maintain value well over the years.

I was in a model a couple weeks ago and it was super nice. finishes were very nice and the kitchen are spectacular for a condo/loft.

I would be thrilled with a 10% price cut on the unit I am looking at. I think at that price it will be about 5 % over market price compared to like used units in the area.

thanks

[MarkDaMan]

are you talking about The Wyatt? 49 sales already would be impressive since they've hardly marketed it. Unlike the Encore which for the past three months has been in every local rag, big signs on the Metropolitan fence, and I could have swore I saw a TriMet ad the other day too.

[nwd]

The Encore is also has an ad in last week's New Yorker.

[Leo]

Just make sure you look at the floorplans carefully ... Robert Ball does some weird stuff (bedrooms under other people’s kitchens or next to trash chutes / elevator shafts). I owned a unit in Marshall Wells (it’s a converted warehouse, not new construction), and the noise from the hallway and adjoining units was terrible, mostly because of the floorplan layout.

There were also a lot of flippers in his Marshall Wells and Avenue projects. Just because you see it under contract now doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t be available in a few months ...

[jonnyz1245]

I know that in the Wyatt, the floorplans are pretty much the same. From floor to floor, the plans are stacked meaning kitchen the 8th floor in #803 is below kitchen in the 9th floor in 903.

how was your experience in Marshall wells with the management company? did Ball manage it or farm it out?

I still think I can wrangle a few $ off in HOA fees or from asking price. If they won't budge, I will walk. The one thing I learned in life is that if someone doesn't want your $, there is always someone else that will...

[PDX City-State]

From a very reliable source who lives in MW: Robert Ball bought the condo owners out of all responsibility for that building a year ago for one million. The story is that he was kinda pushy--said he wanted out, and didn't really give anyone a choice. Pretty much said it was in their best interest because they wouldn't get a dime should there be a problem. A couple of months later, there was a 'discovery' that the entire south side of the building had to be repaired because of poor construction. I for one wouldn't buy into his buildings. There are many such Robert Ball stories.

[Leo]

From a very reliable source who lives in MW: Robert Ball bought the condo owners out of all responsibility for that building a year ago for one million.

I can verify this story. The HOA was discussing Ball’s offer a few days before the sale of my unit closed. The HOA board was stacked with Ball’s personal friends, so the vocal objections of the owners (myself included) were summarily ignored and the board took the offer. Now they’re looking at $1.5-2.0 million to fix the South side of that building. I’m glad I sold my place before the board made this decision.

Ball was extremely pushy at denying responsibility for present and future issues in the building, essentially arguing that it was "good enough." It would not surprise me if it turns out that he had known about the crumbling South wall (as well as any other lurking issues) beforehand.

The management of the building was farmed out to MultiServices, who manage many of the buildings in the Pearl. The management was acceptable, but definitely not exceptional in any respect. However, construction defects (and there were many) of any kind were generally a pain in the a$$ to get fixed in that building (these are not handled by MultiServices). I lived there for 2 years and was unable to get all of my unit’s issues resolved – this even after I finally resorted to calling them three times a day for four weeks in a row! The only people that ever seemed to get anything fixed were the friends of Robert Ball...