[Raraavis]

Russia Plans World's Longest Tunnel, a Link to Alaska (Update4)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=home&sid=a0bsMii8oKXw

By Yuriy Humber and Bradley Cook

April 18 (Bloomberg) -- Russia plans to build the world's longest tunnel, a transport and pipeline link under the Bering Strait to Alaska, as part of a $65 billion project to supply the U.S. with oil, natural gas and electricity from Siberia.

The project, which Russia is coordinating with the U.S. and Canada, would take 10 to 15 years to complete, Viktor Razbegin, deputy head of industrial research at the Russian Economy Ministry, told reporters in Moscow today. State organizations and private companies in partnership would build and control the route, known as TKM-World Link, he said.

A 6,000-kilometer (3,700-mile) transport corridor from Siberia into the U.S. will feed into the tunnel, which at 64 miles will be more than twice as long as the underwater section of the Channel Tunnel between the U.K. and France, according to the plan. The tunnel would run in three sections to link the two islands in the Bering Strait between Russia and the U.S.

``This will be a business project, not a political one,'' Maxim Bystrov, deputy head of Russia's agency for special economic zones, said at the media briefing. Russian officials will formally present the plan to the U.S. and Canadian governments next week, Razbegin said.

The Bering Strait tunnel will cost $10 billion to $12 billion, and the rest of the investment will be spent on the entire transport corridor, the plan estimates.

``The project is a monster,'' Yevgeny Nadorshin, chief economist with Trust Investment Bank in Moscow, said in an interview. ``The Chinese are crying out for our commodities and willing to finance the transport links, and we're sending oil to Alaska.''

In Alaska, a supporter of the project is former Governor Walter Joseph Hickel, who plans to co-chair a conference on the subject in Moscow next week.

``Governor Hickel has long supported this concept, and he talks about it and writes about it,'' said Malcolm Roberts, a senior fellow at the Anchorage-based Institute of the North, a research policy group focused on Arctic issues. Hickel governed Alaska from 1966 to 1969 as a Republican and then from 1990 to 1994 as a member of the Independence Party.

Alaska's current officials, however, are preoccupied with other issues, including a plan to develop a pipeline to transport natural gas from the North Slope to the lower 48 U.S. states, Roberts said.

The U.S. government's Federal Railroad Administration isn't directly involved in talks about the link, agency spokesman Warren Flatau said today.

Finance Agencies

Tsar Nicholas II, Russia's last emperor, was the first Russian leader to approve a plan for a tunnel under the Bering Strait, in 1905, 38 years after his grandfather sold Alaska to America for $7.2 million. World War I ended the project.

The planned undersea tunnel would contain a high-speed railway, highway and pipelines, as well as power and fiber-optic cables, according to TKM-World Link. Investors in the so-called public-private partnership include OAO Russian Railways, national utility OAO Unified Energy System and pipeline operator OAO Transneft, according to a press release which was handed out at the media briefing and bore the companies' logos.

Russia and the U.S. may each eventually take 25 percent stakes, with private investors and international finance agencies as other shareholders, Razbegin said. ``The governments will act as guarantors for private money,'' he said.

The World Link will save North America and Far East Russia $20 billion a year on electricity costs, said Vasily Zubakin, deputy chief executive officer of OAO Hydro OGK, Unified Energy's hydropower unit and a potential investor.

Transport Electricity

``It's cheaper to transport electricity east, and with our unique tidal resources, the potential is real,'' Zubakin said. Hydro OGK plans by 2020 to build the Tugurskaya and Pendzhinskaya tidal plants, each with capacity of as much as 10 gigawatts, in the Okhotsk Sea, close to Sakhalin Island.

The project envisions building high-voltage power lines with a capacity of up to 15 gigawatts to supply the new rail links and also export to North America.

Russian Railways is working on the rail route from Pravaya Lena, south of Yakutsk in the Sakha republic, to Uelen on the Bering Strait, a 3,500 kilometer stretch. The link could carry commodities from eastern Siberia and Sakha to North American export markets, said Artur Alexeyev, Sakha's vice president.

The two regions hold most of Russia's metal and mineral reserves ``and yet only 1.5 percent of it is developed due to lack of infrastructure and tough conditions,'' Alexeyev said.

Cluster Projects

Rail links in Russia and the U.S., where an almost 2,000- kilometer stretch from Angora to Fort Nelson in Canada would continue the route, would cost up to $15 billion, Razbegin said. With cargo traffic of as much as 100 million tons annually expected on the World Link, the investments in the rail section could be repaid in 20 years, he said.

``The transit link is that string on which all our industrial cluster projects could hang,'' Zubakin said.

Japan, China and Korea have expressed interest in the project, with Japanese companies offering to burrow the tunnel under the Bering Strait for $60 million a kilometer, half the price set down in the project, Razbegin said.

``This will certainly help to develop Siberia and the Far East, but better port infrastructure would do that too and not cost $65 billion,'' Trust's Nadorshin said. ``For all we know, the U.S. doesn't want to make Alaska a transport hub.''

The figures for the project come from a preliminary feasibility study. A full study could be funded from Russia's investment fund, set aside for large infrastructure projects, Bystrov said.

To contact the reporters on this story: Yuriy Humber in Moscow at yhumber@bloomberg.net ; Bradley Cook in Moscow at bcook7@bloomberg.net .

Last Updated: April 18, 2007 16:38 EDT

[urban_encounter]

:hmmm:


interesting....

[Tom In Chicago]

Awesome!!!

[mariokarter]

the world is never going to run out of oil...as the price keeps rising it makes so many crazy oil sources/ways of getting oil fesable.

[Chicago103]

I know there lots of oil interests involved in this project but I am fascinated by it because its going to include high speed rail and a highway. This means one could conceivably take a train (or drive!) to Europe from the United States. Imagine being able to take a train from Chicago all the way to Alaska, through the Bering Strait tunnel and then through Siberia, Moscow, Eastern and Western Europe and then through the English Channel tunnel and end up in London!!!! That would be one hell of a long route to get there but it would also be some trip!

[Xelebes]

I know there lots of oil interests involved in this project but I am fascinated by it because its going to include high speed rail and a highway. This means one could conceivably take a train (or drive!) to Europe from the United States. Imagine being able to take a train from Chicago all the way to Alaska, through the Bering Strait tunnel and then through Siberia, Moscow, Eastern and Western Europe and then through the English Channel tunnel and end up in London!!!! That would be one hell of a long route to get there but it would also be some trip!

Patagonia-Highland or Horn-Good Hope, sir?

[raggedy13]

Would probably increase Russian tourism quite a bit. Living in BC, I might just have to consider taking a road trip to Russia sometime... :D

[James Bond Agent 007]

I hope I'm wrong, but if this gets built, I'll eat my hat.

[mthq]

Sounds cool and all, but once the tunnel pops up in Alaska, does this mean we're suddenly getting free highspeed rail, a highway, pipeline, etc etc? If so... mkay, cool, I guess.

btw, you wear a hat, 007?

[PuyoPiyo]

Wow, that would be amazing, just imagine drive to Southeast Asia, China, Middle East, Korea, Europe, Russia, many different countries at the east. Now I wonder why we never really drive to South America through the Central America?

But I know if we connect the tunnel from Alaska to Russia, we will be more attracted to drive there instead of drive to South America...

[PuyoPiyo]

I found good website show pictures of the projects!

http://www.gr8st8.com/main_pages/bering_tunnel.htm

[arkhitektor]

Now I wonder why we never really drive to South America through the Central America?


The reason that I've never driven to Buenos Aires is the same reason that I'd never drive to Russia. Why would I drive 7,500 miles when I could just fly for 1/100th the time and far less money. We have boats and planes that make something like this needless. I can see a pipeline maybe, but a road or train connection is a pipe dream, and wouldn't ever be used even if it were built.

[Raraavis]

How would one keep roads and train tracks across Alaska or Siberia open and clear of snow and ice? Why would you spend tens of billions on a road that was open one month a year?

[-GR2NY-]

It won't happen mark my words. Plus who the hell would drive that? We states people don't even drive to Alaska as-is, let alone drive there and enter the worlds longest tunnel only to end up in the middle of buck snort nowhere again. All for the same price as an airline ticket? Forget about it.

[AJphx]

The article didn't say passenger travel would be the main use. It is more for freight and energy transport.

It honestly doesn't seem far-fetched considering the tunnel would only need to be a little more than twice as long as the Channel Tunnel. I had forgotten how narrow the Bering Strait is.

[Busy Bee]

I might be alone in saying this but it kind of sounds like a Trojan Horse. I mean , I'm not so sure we should get so squishy [i.e. dependent] on Russia, they still aren't what you would consider our best buddies. I don't listen to or subscribe to ultra-conservative media, but even I am a little suspicious of Putin and closely watching Russian government activity is still in the best interest of the US.

[Xelebes]

If it gets built, it will be a boon for Edmonton... and Yakutsk/Aldan/Anadyr.

[Kimo]

This sounds really exciting! I would drive to Moscow from Edmonton for a vaction if I could.

[arkhitektor]

This sounds really exciting! I would drive to Moscow from Edmonton for a vaction if I could.

Really? Why would you? Why would anyone drive over 10,000 miles through artic nothing to get to Russia. I won't even drive to Phoenix and its only a 10-hour drive from me. The reason: Its much cheaper, easier and faster to simply fly.

[Chicago103]

Maybe driving wouldnt be very practical but what about a high speed train ride? I imagine the only people that would drive would be alaskans and siberians going to and fro. It will boost the economy of Alaska and that part of siberia for sure. A train ride might be expensive but there is something to be said for a journey that stays on the ground for the whole time. If you are travelling to the orient from the United States it might be somewhat practical, imagine taking a train from Chicago to Beijeng. The thing I said about London was sort of theoretical in that the roads and trains of the eastern and western hemispheres will be connected and one could in theory travel from Chicago to London via train, not that many would or that it would be practical.

[SapphireBlueEyes]

This is nonsense. Also, Chicago103 is applauding this? Umm, Chicago103, driving through this tunnel would make us more fuel dependent. Sure, cut the apron strings to the middle east and rely on Russia? I trust Putin as far as I can throw him!
This could be a ploy to somehow set up an attack on the U.S. Not a good idea, not at all!

-SapphireBlueEyes-

[Eigenwelt]

This could be a ploy to somehow set up an attack on the U.S. Not a good idea, not at all!

-SapphireBlueEyes-

Do me a favor and never, ever, ever breed. Thank you.

As far as why would anyone drive across siberia: because some people like road trips and not everyone considers the destination of a trip to be the goal.

I like road trips. No, I love road trips. Driving 3,700 miles through a barren landscape appeals to me in ways I can not fully express with words. On the flip side I hate commuting by car. I prefer mass transit for my day to day travels and daily errands.


Spring Break 2025: Beach Party Vladivostok!

[Chicago103]

Do me a favor and never, ever, ever breed. Thank you.

As far as why would anyone drive across siberia: because some people like road trips and not everyone considers the destination of a trip to be the goal.

I like road trips. No, I love road trips. Driving 3,700 miles through a barren landscape appeals to me in ways I can not fully express with words. On the flip side I hate commuting by car. I prefer mass transit for my day to day travels and daily errands.


Spring Break 2025: Beach Party Vladivostok!

SapphireBlueEyes was not the first person to express concerns over Russia's intentions with this in all fairness. I do support the project mostly for the high speed rail opportunities and being able to connect the eastern and western hemispheres. I wish we could just erase all this foreign policy nonsense on whether or not we trust Russia or the oil complications and just focus on what this means for connecting humanity but we cannot. There are valid concerns, hopefully neither Putin nor Bush will be in power when this project is realized.

[R@ptor]

Highspeed Rails? Driving from the the US to Western Europe? Seriously folks :haha: Have you ever looked at a map and realized the distances in Siberia or are familar with road conditions in even the better developed parts of Russia (I doubt you can even call that roads). Add to that temperatures around -30 to -50 year round and you get the picture. If this tunnel will be built, it will only be built for the purposes stated in the article...and that is a industrial transport and pipeline link.

[Chicago103]

Highspeed Rails? Driving from the the US to Western Europe? Seriously folks :haha: Have you ever looked at a map and realized the distances in Siberia or are familar with road conditions in even the better developed parts of Russia (I doubt you can even call that roads). Add to that temperatures around -30 to -50 year round and you get the picture. If this tunnel will be built, it will only be built for the purposes stated in the article...and that is a industrial transport and pipeline link.

I agree with the roads part but what about the Trans-Siberian railway? I have limited knowledge of it but why cant that same principle apply to modern High Speed Rail?

[Lecom]

SapphireBlueEyes and Busy Bee, thank you very much for your highly entertaining input. I was literally waiting for for some trolls to make an obligatory stop on this thread to post some Russophobia.

[Xelebes]

Highspeed Rails? Driving from the the US to Western Europe? Seriously folks :haha: Have you ever looked at a map and realized the distances in Siberia or are familar with road conditions in even the better developed parts of Russia (I doubt you can even call that roads). Add to that temperatures around -30 to -50 year round and you get the picture. If this tunnel will be built, it will only be built for the purposes stated in the article...and that is a industrial transport and pipeline link.

Y'know, -30C isn't really that bad.

[Xelebes]

Really? Why would you? Why would anyone drive over 10,000 miles through artic nothing to get to Russia. I won't even drive to Phoenix and its only a 10-hour drive from me. The reason: Its much cheaper, easier and faster to simply fly.

10 hours isn't much. The 13 hour drive to Vancouver isn't so bad. I'm guessing it's an 18 hour drive to Whitehorse from here. 30 hours to Fairbanks... 50 hours to the tunnel...

[Kitchissippi]

With global warming, Siberia could end up being one of the most liveable places on Earth. Enough space for all the people displaced by rising sea levels!

[Canadian Mind]

you folks that talk about siberia being -30 to -50 year round are daft. it isn't that cold during the summer. And even if it is that cold, winter or summer, us canucks do that on a daily basis.

ho here has driven for more than a full day (24 hours +) in the middle of winter? I have, got me only 1000 miles, but whatever.


as for the distance from Edmonton to Moscow, it would be like driving from Edmonton to Montreal and back, again, not that far. To you yanks these distances may seem a bit extreme, and maybe call us canadians crazy, but remember, out country is wider then yours in every way but down (you guys have a deep fucking canyon). As such, we are used to long distance traveling.

I for one would love to ride my bike from here to Europe someday. would likely take 3 or four months, but thats why i'd start in summer to avoid siberian cool.

[bnk]

very interesting factoid.

Tsar Nicholas II, Russia's last emperor, was the first Russian leader to approve a plan for a tunnel under the Bering Strait, in 1905, 38 years after his grandfather sold Alaska to America for $7.2 million. World War I ended the project.

That was over a century ago.

This kind of reminds me of a great book I read about the panama canal.

It literaly took many decades on and off to finish this project.

BTW they plan on expanding the canal with new locks, while keeping the older ones within 10-15 years or so.

At first they tried to make it a sea level canal like suez, obviously without sucess.

Good read.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:yyxfaRreeT30pM:http://brainfuel.tv/postimages/path_between_the_seas.jpg

[Nowhereman1280]

Just for the record, the bering strait is well outside of the arctic circle. It is nowhere near as cold are you are making it out to be.

Also, I don't think anyone here really realizes how momentous this could be. Most people don't realize this, but freight trains are actually the most efficiant and cost-effective way to trasport large quantities of goods. Far cheeper than airplanes, and much faster than Cargo ships (even with having to go way out of the way to the north a train averaging 50 miles and hour would be faster than a freighter averaging 10 miles an hour...). If built, I bet most trade from the rest of the world to the US would begin entering via this tunnel.

Trains would also have the added benefit of not having to be unloaded at port facilities, which takes quite a bit of time and energy. A factory in China could make a load of widgets and pack them into a sea container and instead of having to take it to a port via truck or train, then take it off and stack in in a heap until the appropriate freighter arrives, then go back dig up the container and put it on the ship when it gets there, then take a couple weeks to get across the Pacific then unload it in LA and put it on another train or truck and deliver it to whoever wanted the widgets... Well with the tunnel, you could just stick it in the crate, throw it on the next America bound train, and it would go straight to America and avoid all of the hassles of storage and waiting for boats in a port...

Get the picture? This could be a revolution in globalism, the ability to get goods from anywhere in the Eurasia landmass directly to the Americas without using anything more than a train? The economic benefits would be enormous for all those involved.

By the way, the worst winter weather rarely stops freight trains, it is much more likely that a major storm will force a freighter to go way out of its way, than for a winter storm to stop train traffic.

This would also mark the first time humans would be able to cross the berring straight on foot since the land bridge flooded... Talk about symbolic of the global age and reunification of humanity...

[Kitchissippi]

The US got most of its present-day global economic might from sitting in the middle of world trade between Asia and Europe. This scheme puts Russia in the same position, with untapped resources in Siberia to boot.

This tunnel could end up being a Trojan Horse. Either Russia becoming the new economic king, or the final corporate takeover of the former communist nation.

[MtnClimber]

you folks that talk about siberia being -30 to -50 year round are daft. it isn't that cold during the summer. And even if it is that cold, winter or summer, us canucks do that on a daily basis.

ho here has driven for more than a full day (24 hours +) in the middle of winter? I have, got me only 1000 miles, but whatever.


as for the distance from Edmonton to Moscow, it would be like driving from Edmonton to Montreal and back, again, not that far. To you yanks these distances may seem a bit extreme, and maybe call us canadians crazy, but remember, out country is wider then yours in every way but down (you guys have a deep fucking canyon). As such, we are used to long distance traveling.

I for one would love to ride my bike from here to Europe someday. would likely take 3 or four months, but thats why i'd start in summer to avoid siberian cool.


Extreme distances haha. I think people in the Lower 48 particularly those back east have little concept for long distances. I reguarly make the trip from Seattle to Alaska by CAR! not ferry, and its not to bad. I think people out west have more tolerance for driving long distances.

That being said i doubt the average American or Canadian could tolerate a drive all the way to Moscow!! Of all places. Heck just a drive up to Alaska can be a pain in the ass from Seattle.

Just imagine driving to freaking Valdivostok or some place comparable. I could see this being a large boom for places like China however. If the high speed rail thing got going, it would be intersting to see how this would effect Northwest port cities like Vancouver and Seattle. It seems that it would be a boom to more interior cities like Fairbanks and Edmonton.

It may not be practical to drive all the way to Moscow, but going to places such as Vladivostok and NE Asia seems somewhat doable by train. I doubt this project will ever move forward any time soon.

[anm]

I might be alone in saying this but it kind of sounds like a Trojan Horse. I mean , I'm not so sure we should get so squishy [i.e. dependent] on Russia, they still aren't what you would consider our best buddies. I don't listen to or subscribe to ultra-conservative media, but even I am a little suspicious of Putin and closely watching Russian government activity is still in the best interest of the US.

not to sidetrack the tread, but IMO it would be in the best interest of the US citizens to watch closly the activities of their own government... much more closely than they have done so far (for the record - I am no admirer of Mr. Putin)

[Kimo]

Really? Why would you? Why would anyone drive over 10,000 miles through artic nothing to get to Russia. I won't even drive to Phoenix and its only a 10-hour drive from me. The reason: Its much cheaper, easier and faster to simply fly.

It would be an trip to tell my grand kids about. Sometimes the destination is not the vacation, the journey is.

[Chicago103]

This would also mark the first time humans would be able to cross the berring straight on foot since the land bridge flooded... Talk about symbolic of the global age and reunification of humanity...

On bike? On foot? I doubt there would be a bike or pedestrian lane in a 64 mile long tunnel! Unless by on foot you meant without travelling in the air or on the water.

[big W]

I would personally do the drive if I could. I love the journey and would drive from Edmonton to any place in Asia, Europe and Africa. I have done the drives all across Canada and the US and the trip is the funnest part. Just going with a couple of the boys and hitting weird and wonderful places. Now this is not saying I would never fly but rather that I would do this journey a couple times.

[MtnClimber]

not to sidetrack the tread, but IMO it would be in the best interest of the US citizens to watch closly the activities of their own government... much more closely than they have done so far (for the record - I am no admirer of Mr. Putin)

Don't compare Russia to USA.

[PuyoPiyo]

My words to you who hate drive trip, I hate fly. VERY boring than the cars! Been in the airplane for over 10 hours from San Francisco to Tokyo, Japan. That is the most worst ride I ever had, all I can do is sit and stare how long will we get to Tokyo or to San Francisco.

I wouldn't mind to drive for 19 hours to Las Vegas as far as I could pass Portland, Crater Lake, Mt. Shasta, Reno, Carson City, then finally Las Vegas.

My little advice for drive trip: Don't stay in the car too much, try get out of the car and get around the town that you passed.

[cornholio]

Some people have said this but anyways...this project will hapen, the only question is if its going to be sooner or later. Also when this project final hapens it wont include a highway and it wont include highspeed rail, this i can gurantee. This project will be most likely a two rail tunnel for freight, with a pricy train or two a day for pasengers...and obviously it will include pipelines etc.

Edit: I did a quick map to show how useful a link via the bering sea would be. Just imagine the transport of goods from asia to north america and even south america and vice vesa at 10 times the speed and a fraction of the cost? The Bering strait actualy would have almost the most direct conection between China-Asia and North Amrican-South America.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/alesmarv/worldmap.jpg?t=1177151441

One more adition, i just noticed that the straight line right through directly links the midle east and the east coast of america, some might think this is bad and sure it would be a even biger undertaking building up pipeline capacity along the coridor through various countries, but just imagine the profits that this tunnel would generate. I real think its a no brainer, the only thing holding it back is politics and the complexity of it. Also think of the enviromental benefits of taking thousands of ships of the ocean.

[Tex1899]

I have to agree with Cornholio - the pipeline has the greatest chance of being built. I'd say the chances aren't quite as good for the freight railway, and a slim-to-none chance of a highway being built.

And whoever said people on the East Coast aren't prone to driving long distances is right. In my previous job people in PA and CT told me they considered driving more than an hour to be a far drive. I think nothing of getting up on a Saturday morning, driving from Houston to Dallas to meet a buddy for lunch, and then driving home that evening. A 3.5-hour trip (one-way) is not that bad. There are many in Texas who agree. And probably all across the southeast, too. Maybe it's because we're used to getting up early on a Saturday morning, driving to the game, tailgating, and then driving home that night...

[anm]

Don't compare Russia to USA.
Don't be rude. Instead, please check out this thread http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=130057

[JManc]

this would be inconceivable 20 years ago. i'd drive from houston to moscow. does russia have any stucky's or motel 6's along the highway? or is it just boris's gas and vodka?

[R@ptor]

this would be inconceivable 20 years ago. i'd drive from houston to moscow. does russia have any stucky's or motel 6's along the highway? or is it just boris's gas and vodka?

As I said earlier there are no real 'highways' whatsoever in all of eastern Siberia, but only gravel and mud roads.

This is a photo of the main highway between Vladivostok and Chabarovsk, 3000 miles south from the proposed tunnel.

http://dreamers1.com/russia/Ulan_Ude/Vladivostok-to-Ulan_Ude.25.JPG

[ardecila]

Ah, nice cornholio. When we use a Mercator projection we tend to blow things out of proportion (literally). The trip between, say, Chicago and Beijing is probably shorter flying over the Bering Strait than it is heading due west.

[JManc]

As I said earlier there are no real 'highways' whatsoever in all of eastern Siberia, but only gravel and mud roads.

This is a photo of the main highway between Vladivostok and Chabarovsk, 3000 miles south from the proposed tunnel.

i was being funny but even then, a dirt road shouldn't be a problem in am SUV

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2003/hummer.h2/03.hummer.h2.f34.500.jpg

[Xelebes]

i was being funny but even then, a dirt road shouldn't be a problem in am SUV

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2003/hummer.h2/03.hummer.h2.f34.500.jpg

I'd take a pickup truck over a SUV on those roads.

[Derek]

i would totally drive that!! i love road trips

in fact, id drive all the way to Western Europe;)

[Raraavis]

There are no roads going west from Fairbanks. It would require building hundreds of miles new roads across very difficult terrain. Very Expensive.

As for it not being that cold. I once visited Kotzebue Alaska just north of the Bering Strait in late April. When I landed about 10 am it was -13 F (- 25 C) it didn't seem like the kind of weather I would want to drive thousands of miles across the wilderness in.

http://www.smart-traveler.info/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Map_of_Alaska.gif

[Derek]

im an adventurer;)

[miketoronto]

There is not going to be a highway in this project.

And there is a major reason there won't be. People can't drive long distances in a tunnel like that.

One of the reasons the tunnel between England and France only has rail service, is because they found driving through that tunnel would do something to people's minds, and cause them to lose control of their cars or something like that.

So there will not be a highway with this.

[niwell]

^I think it actually has more to do with ventilation (car exhaust), but the end result is the same.

As others have mentioned, if this ever gets built, it will likely in no way be designed with passenger vehicles in mind. Strictly freight and energy transportation infrastructure. I doubt the validity of even passenger rail unless oil prices are high enough to render air travel untenable.

[ardecila]

The nice thing there is, freight and passenger rail use the SAME infrastructure. So the thing can be designed as all rail/pipeline and the tracks can be used at a later date for passenger rail if warranted.

[jlousa]

Even if it is freight only, no reason you couldn't drive your car onto a train car and ride over.:tup:

[big W]

Even if it is freight only, no reason you couldn't drive your car onto a train car and ride over.:tup:

What do you think this is a James Bond movie where he escapes to the safe haven of the west?

[Nowhereman1280]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/alesmarv/worldmap.jpg?t=1177151441


This map is perfect. It shows exactly how much time and money could be saved and made by using a Bering Strait tunnel. This tunnel would probably have to be more than just two rails, one going each way, the amount of volume this tunnel would generate would be enormous. Many airplanes actually do use air routes over the north pacific and Alaska to go from say NY or Toronto or Chicago to Tokyo or other Japanese cities.

There is no way they would continue to use Freighter ships that are slower than trains and have to take a less direct route given the option to send it across the bering strait...

[jlousa]

What do you think this is a James Bond movie where he escapes to the safe haven of the west?


What I was pictureing was more along the lines of the chunnel train where you drive your car onto a special traincar at a station, and then you drive off on the other side.

[hoosier]

What I was pictureing was more along the lines of the chunnel train where you drive your car onto a special traincar at a station, and then you drive off on the other side.

If the new rail line went through Fairbanks that might be feasible.

I do not want new highways built, but I can live with rail line construction, so long as it does not cut through national parks or preserves.

[TheMeltyMan]

I would definitely consider a drive from Pennsylvania because i'm filled with wanderlust. I've always been interested in places like Siberia, Kamchatka, etc over Paris, the Bahamas and well known places. I would gladly spend three times as much to drive to the Far East than fly there if I had a fair job and a couple months vacation time.

A drive to Patagonia takes miles of paperwork and visas while a very lengthy trip to Moscow (hypothetically) would only take a single visa!

[You Need A Thneed]

If the new rail line went through Fairbanks that might be feasible.

I do not want new highways built, but I can live with rail line construction, so long as it does not cut through national parks or preserves.

They would pretty much have to build a highway to the project so it could be built. Once there's a highway to both ends of the project to service the construction, you might as well connect the roads.

[daftmax]

Crazy :D ...

[Nowhereman1280]

The more I look at that picture of the globe, the more I realize this has to be built. Its just so beautifully efficient and time saving. I mean we're talking a massive development in world connectivity. A direct link between the US and China, the worlds largest trading partners, by rail? SWEET!

I really hope this gets built even if I can't drive through it.

Honte, I can understand (and agree) you being against new highways being built, but why would you be against it in this case? This is the kind of connection that, instead of encouraging people to drive cars and ruin the environment, would actually facilitate more efficient, therefore less environmentally harmful, trade. The volume of cars passing through this would be relatively low, primarily just people taking road trips, not people commuting to work everyday in Russia. Other than that, only semi's would use it. Surprisingly enough, semi's are actually relatively efficient ways to transport goods. Not as efficient as trains however.

This would also drop over seas shipping rates for consumers as well. Imagine ordering something from China, instead of having to wait a month for it to ship by sea, or having to pay exhorbanate sums to have it flown in, you could just wait two weeks and it would show up via train...

[TheMeltyMan]

Even if this is just a train, its still going to need an access road or auxiliary track for vehicles but these could end up as dead ends on either side of the Bering.

[Cirrus]

Why a tunnel instead of a bridge?

[TheMeltyMan]

The Deadliest Catch on Discovery has taught me that the Bering Sea has some bastard sea currents. Also, it'd take two 20+ mile suspension bridges supported by insanely tall pillars. Engineers have even been hitting their heads for a couple decades trying to sell the idea of a 10 mile suspension bridge across the strait of Gibralter. There is also the problem of rusting which on its own would take countless workers just by itself. It just seems more plausible that they'd follow suit with the chunnel. Its about the equivalent of two chunnels on either side of the Diomede Islands and totally possible with enough resources.

[You Need A Thneed]

The Deadliest Catch on Discovery has taught me that the Bering Sea has some bastard sea currents. Also, it'd take two 20+ mile suspension bridges supported by insanely tall pillars. Engineers have even been hitting their heads for a couple decades trying to sell the idea of a 10 mile suspension bridge across the strait of Gibralter. There is also the problem of rusting which on its own would take countless workers just by itself. It just seems more plausible that they'd follow suit with the chunnel. Its about the equivalent of two chunnels on either side of the Diomede Islands and totally possible with enough resources.

The Ice Floes through the straight are massive too. Would tear apart any "normal" bridge. To make it work, they'd have to borrow ice proofing ideas from the confederation bridge (Canada), but beef it up so much more - to handle the much larger ice flowing for much more of the year.

[cornholio]

^^With a bridge would it be posible to make it part of a masive tidal plant(or whatever their called). Could generate some masive amounts of clean energy and it would be conected to the power grid if they are going to build the infrustructure like they say.

They had a show abvout it on the discovery chanel a while back and said that a bridge was posibel but it would require huge pillars because of the ice floes.

[Jularc]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0704/map.bering.strait/tunnel3.jpg


Tunnel dream: Undersea project would link Alaska, Russia

• $65 billion project would go under Bering Strait
• Proposed tunnel would be 68 miles long, in waters up to 180 feet deep
• Chunnel, linking Britain and France is only 30 miles long
• Project would take 20 years to build



April 25, 2007

MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- For more than a century, entrepreneurs and engineers have dreamed of building a tunnel connecting the eastern and western hemispheres under the Bering Strait -- only to be brought up short by war, revolution and politics.

Now die-hard supporters are renewing their push for the audacious plan -- a $65 billion highway project that would link two of the world's most inhospitable regions by burrowing under a stretch of water connecting the Pacific with the Arctic Ocean.

Russians and Americans alike made their pitch for the project at a conference titled "Megaprojects of Russia's East," held Tuesday in Moscow.

"It's time to the rewrite the old slogan 'Workers of the world unite!"' said Walter Hickel, a former Alaska governor and interior secretary under President Richard Nixon. "It's time to proclaim, 'Workers -- Unite the world!"'

A Russian Economics Ministry official tossed cold water on the idea, saying he wanted to know who planned to pay the mammoth bill for the project before seriously discussing it. But Hickel was unfazed in his speech, saying the route would unlock hitherto untapped natural resources -- and bolster the economies of both Alaska and Russia's Far East.

The proposed 68-mile tunnel would be the longest in the world. It would also be the linchpin for a 3,700-mile railroad line stretching from Yakutsk -- the capital of a gold- and mineral-rich Siberian region roughly the size of India -- through extreme northeastern Russia, in waters up to 180 feet deep and into the western coast of Alaska. Winter temperatures there routinely hit minus 94 F.

By comparison, the undersea tunnel that is now the world's longest -- the Chunnel, linking Britain and France -- is only 30 miles long.

That raises the prospect of some tantalizingly exotic routes -- train riders could catch the London-Moscow-Washington express, conference organizers suggested.

Lobbyists claimed the project is guaranteed to turn a profit after 30 years. As crews construct the road and rail link, they said, the workers would also build oil and gas pipelines and lay electricity and fiber-optic cables. Trains would whisk cargos at up to 60 mph 260 feet beneath the seabed.

Eventually, 3 percent of the world's cargo could move along the route, organizers hope.


Private investment called for


Maxim Bystrov, deputy head of the federal agency for managing Special Economic Zones, injected a note of sobriety to the heady talk of linking East and West by road and rail. He said his ministry would invest in the project only when private investors said they were committed to building it.

"As a ministry employee I am used to working with figures and used to working with projects that have an economic and financial base," Bystrov said. "The word 'prozhekt' has a negative meaning in Russian. I want this 'prozhekt' to turn into a 'project."'

The idea has a long history. Russia's last czar, Nicholas II, twice approved the implementation of a similar plan, perhaps eying the gold- and oil-rich territory that the Russian Imperial government had sold to the United States just before the turn of the 20th century.

The First World War and the Bolshevik Revolution doomed both attempts.

Despite the allure, there were signs Tuesday that there is no light at the end of this particular tunnel. A top economic adviser to President Vladimir Putin, as well as the Russian railway minister, who had been billed to speak, pulled out at the last minute.


$120 million in study costs alone


The feasibility study alone would cost $120 million and would take two years to complete, organizers said. Actual construction of the road-rail-pipeline-cable effort could take up to 20 years.

Still, Vladimir Brezhnev, president of Russian construction conglomerate Transstroi, said that the technology to tackle the construction work existed.

"Perhaps not all of us will be involved in this," he told conference participants. "But as an engineer I wish I could be."

A statement adopted at the conference Tuesday called on the governments of Russia, the United States, Japan, China and the European Union to endorse the tunnel as part of their economic development strategies. It urged government officials to raise the issue at the G-8 summit in Germany in June.

George Koumal, president of the Interhemispheric Bering Strait Tunnel and Railroad Group -- the noncommercial organization pushing for the project -- said that while many have seen England from France and vice versa across the Channel, there is little communication between the people living on either side of the Bering Strait.

"There are very few people who have stood on the beach in Alaska," he said. "Seemingly you can stretch out your hand and touch Mother Russia."



© 2007 Cable News Network (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/04/24/russia.alaska.tunnel.ap/index.html)

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ So there will be a road component... Not surprising I guess, you can't just have a rail tunnel with no access except for the tunnel itself. I guess its at a minimum a safety issue with only having one way to get through the tunnel. Have to have at least two tubes or any disaster or fire could destroy the entire tunnel...

[mglan80]

Doesn't Russia still use 6' gauge for their trackage? There would have to be massive transfer facilities on each side to transfer cargo to the correct gauge. Or do they switch out the trucks or something?

[Lee_Haber8]

There's no way that you could have trucks using it - trucks are inefficient at moving cargo long-haul and the cost of providing extra space and ventilation would increase costs exponentially. Even with rail I don't see this project as being economically sound - it's just an engineer's wet dream

[Trantor]

there is a 1950/60 Marvel comics where Captain America and Captain Marvel fight the commies in a secret tunnel they opened under the Bering Strait to invade US...


Now I wonder why we never really drive to South America through the Central America?

we will be more attracted to drive there instead of drive to South America...

there ARE PEOPLE who drive from North to South America. There were people who even rode bikes from Alaska to Patagonia!

But they are adventurers. COMMON PEOPLE WILL NEVER DRIVE FROM NORTH AMERICA TO SOUTH AMERICA, NOR FROM CHICAGO TO SIBERIA.

Common people will take a plane!

There is even a pan american highway btw, connecting Alaska to Patagonia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-American_Highway

[G-Man]

^ Actually no one drives from North to South America. The south of Panama is known as the Darien Gap and while there were plans to continue the Pan-American highway to Colombia, the US nixed them in the Ronald Regan years out of fear of increased drug access to the US. There used to be a car ferry from Panama to Cartagena but that has been gone for some years. You can sometimes find a freighter to take your car that distance but it usually costs a fair bit, cheaper if you have a motorcycle.

You can drive to Panama however and I someday want to do it as it would be wild. Might be safer to take buses though.

On topic: I once saw a Discovery Channel show on building a bridge. It was pretty cool there were quite a few computer generated flybys and stuff not sure if anyone else ever saw it.

[Boquillas]

"Long Way Round"--- anyone see it? It's a documentary series following Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman as they ride specially outfitted BMW motorcycles from London, across Europe and Siberia, take a plane over the Bering Strait and ride from Alaska to NYC. They really did this. Siberia had to be the most difficult part-- the so-called "Road of Bones" built by Stalin using essentially slave labor was virtually impassable by even the hardiest of 4WD vehicles. Spring thaws create vast floods every year that wash out roads and make driving impossible. Rail does go through this area, and can be elevated less expensively than roads. An interesting idea, and it makes sense to me.

[TheMeltyMan]

The Road of Bones does not reach the Bering Strait. It ends in Magadan on the Sea of Ochotsk. They then flew over Ochostk, Kamchatka, the Bering Sea and then into Anchorage. They were still roughly 1500 miles from the Bering Strait.

[ATLksuGUY]

HOLY SH!T this cannot be for real... OVER a thousan mile tunnel??? no way. any other sources to back this up? The logistics for such an operation have to be freakin astounding!

[Trantor]

^ Actually no one drives from North to South America. The south of Panama is known as the Darien Gap and while there were plans to continue the Pan-American highway to Colombia, the US nixed them in the Ronald Regan years out of fear of increased drug access to the US. There used to be a car ferry from Panama to Cartagena but that has been gone for some years. You can sometimes find a freighter to take your car that distance but it usually costs a fair bit, cheaper if you have a motorcycle.

You can drive to Panama however and I someday want to do it as it would be wild. Might be safer to take buses though.

On topic: I once saw a Discovery Channel show on building a bridge. It was pretty cool there were quite a few computer generated flybys and stuff not sure if anyone else ever saw it.

no one in their SANE mind to the travel. But just last year there was an american couple in Novo Hamburgo, that had driven (with a trailler behind their car) since the US. They had passed Porto Alegre, were in Novo Hamburgo, and on the way to Buenos Aires and then to Patagonia.

And there are some BIKER blogs that did the same adventure.

[Trantor]

HOLY SH!T this cannot be for real... OVER a thousan mile tunnel??? no way. any other sources to back this up? The logistics for such an operation have to be freakin astounding!


no, the tunnel wont be a thousand miles long.Look at the map. The Bring Strait is less than 100km wide.

I think its a THOUSAND MILES CONNECTION, but it includes mostly surface railroad. Only a fraction of it is an underground tunnel.

[Cypherus]

A lot of people exclaim their undesire to take a trip to Russia via the tunnel, and so, do not find it economically suitable. Yet, this tunnel is not meant for a summer road trip for average North American citizen's. Most vehicles will not be reliable in extreme temperatures.

The proposition of this tunnel is the prospect for economic gain through quick and easy transport of goods, services, and natural resources via train and pipelines between the two continents. It is not being built for mickey-mouse road trips, although such road trips can probably be realized in the warmer summer months.

[beanhead4529]

i don't think there's nearly enough demand for this project to be even remotely feasible. the channel tunnel is still paying off its construction debts, even though it is less than half the length of the proposed tunnel. i am highly doubtful that this will get off the gound.

[borgo100]

its a stupid idea, why would u wana drive to Russia, like even if you wanted to get to places like moscow or even china it seems cheaper to fly, and in that area, northen russia, mongola, alaska and northen canada there has to be less then a couple million ppl, it seems pointless

[Nowhereman1280]

i don't think there's nearly enough demand for this project to be even remotely feasible. the channel tunnel is still paying off its construction debts, even though it is less than half the length of the proposed tunnel. i am highly doubtful that this will get off the gound.

This isn't the Channel tunnel we are talking about here, this is a tunnel that would create nearly a straight line railway between the United States and China, the two largest trading partners in the history of the world... This would cut weeks off the transit times of nearly all goods going between China and the US. This would basically replace all Sea Freighter trade between the two countries. There would be at least several hundred billion dollars worth of goods flowing through this tunnel every year, just put a 1% tax on that and it will generate several billion dollars each year... This has the potential to be a trade coup on the scale of the Panama Canal...

its a stupid idea, why would u wana drive to Russia, like even if you wanted to get to places like moscow or even china it seems cheaper to fly, and in that area, northen russia, mongola, alaska and northen canada there has to be less then a couple million ppl, it seems pointless

The point of this tunnel is not to "drive to Russia" but to open a trade link to Freight train traffic... Read the article before making a poorly worded comment completely ignorant of the topic being discussed...

[jmecklenborg]

Use Google Earth and you'll get a distance of roughly 5,500 miles between Beijing and Seattle. So if a freight train averaged 50mph between those two points the transit time would be 110 hours. Shanghai to Los Angles is about 2,000 more miles so the shipping time would be 150 hours.

Meanwhile the shipping distance between Shanghai and Los Angeles is about 6,500 miles. At 20~mph the time is 150-200 hours. Keep in mind that container ships carry as much cargo as several freight trains.

This route could save substantial time for shipments north of Beijing to Canada, the northwest corner of the U.S., and possibly the Great Lakes region.

[Nowhereman1280]

Use Google Earth and you'll get a distance of roughly 5,500 miles between Beijing and Seattle. So if a freight train averaged 50mph between those two points the transit time would be 110 hours. Shanghai to Los Angles is about 2,000 more miles so the shipping time would be 150 hours.

Meanwhile the shipping distance between Shanghai and Los Angeles is about 6,500 miles. At 20~mph the time is 150-200 hours. Keep in mind that container ships carry as much cargo as several freight trains.

This route could save substantial time for shipments north of Beijing to Canada, the northwest corner of the U.S., and possibly the Great Lakes region.

It would save much more than just that though. You are forgetting how much time inventory spends sitting in ports between the train or truck that dropped it off there and the the loading of the ship. If this tunnel is built a factory in China can just put the goods right in a box car and ship it straight to the local distribution center in the US without having to put it on a train, then take it off, stack it in the port, the load it on a ship, then unload it from the ship stack it in the port wait for the truck or train to come get it and then unload it at the distribution center. That will also save a few days... Not to mention trains are a much cheaper, more efficient (energy wise) form of transit than ship.

This would be more efficiant for the entire US not just the north, because even after the 150-200 hour boat ride to the US, the goods still need to go from the Port to the local distribution center which adds another couple days to the journey.

Its basically a more direct route using a form of transit that travels many times as fast. 50 mph for a train is a little slow. The freight limit in the US generally higher. 20 mph for a freighter is also a little fast. You are lucky to get 15 knots, which is a little less than 20mph I believe.

Anyhow, this would be much better than our current system regardless...

[cornholio]

Also remeber that not only would thuis be a direct conection between na america and china but it would also be a direct conection for south america and china/asia. Not to mention the oil pipelines which are by far the biest money maker in this project.

[beanhead4529]

how deep is the ocean floor in that area?

[ardecila]

The point of this tunnel is not to "drive to Russia" but to open a trade link to Freight train traffic... Read the article before making a poorly worded comment completely ignorant of the topic being discussed...

Just as I wouldn't sail my yacht through the Panama Canal, I probably wouldn't drive to China.

[denizen467]

Surprised that nobody has pointed out that we're talking about connecting 2 continents and that this means 2 tectonic plates. If I remember right, the Pacific is 'shrinking' (and the Atlantic is 'growing') from movement of the plates. How do you build a safe tunnel across a fault zone like this? (Of course, I am assuming that the tectonic plates meet at the Bering Strait, it's possible that this isn't actually the case.)

[Canadian Mind]

lets put it this way, North America and Asia are approaching each other at approximately an inch per year, with the Bering straight being the fulcrum point... so say the tunnel they build will change by a degree and maybe compress a couple inches every hundred years or so. Even normal concrete could handle this for the life expectancy of this thing. However if you wanted the get picky you could insert a bunch of expansion and compression joints... which I would assume would be used in normal construction of tunnels anyways.

needless to say, tectonics wouldn't be a problem.

[Nowhereman1280]

Just as I wouldn't sail my yacht through the Panama Canal, I probably wouldn't drive to China.

You have a yacht? Sweet!

[newstl2020]

Keep in mind that while factoring these equations for the amount of possible time saved, we have been taking train capability NOW into the equation. We are talking about this tunnel having a 20 year construction expectancy. Add that onto extra time that can be figured in to deal with financing, diplomatic issues, and other considerations. We are looking at what could very possibly be 30+ years down the road. THIS IS A VERY LONG TIME. At the rate the globe progresses in this day and age, is it that hard to believe that we might be seeing Magnet-Train freight moving at upwards of 300 miles an hour? I don't believe so. Also, this technology would conceivably be much cheaper than it is today, allowing thousands of miles of track to be built connecting all parts of the eastern and western hemispheres. The potential for this project is absolutely astronomical considering the more than likely advances in technology. However, being 30 years down the road...who says we don't have massive planes that can carry the cargo of a few trains and travel at amazing speeds....

[navyweaxguy]

Ok this is a neat idea. No matter how much time they save going through the tunnel, they still have to deal with crap weather on either side... No maglev train will be built through it, mainly because where is it going to go once it gets through each side. No one is going to fund a maglev train from the end of a tunnel to where ever the end point will be. Then who is going to fund it on the russian side. So how much would a maglev train from Vladivostok to Anchorage cost?

[Xelebes]

Ok this is a neat idea. No matter how much time they save going through the tunnel, they still have to deal with crap weather on either side... No maglev train will be built through it, mainly because where is it going to go once it gets through each side. No one is going to fund a maglev train from the end of a tunnel to where ever the end point will be. Then who is going to fund it on the russian side. So how much would a maglev train from Vladivostok to Anchorage cost?

A couple billion dollars.

[Canadian Mind]

lol, sounds about the same as the transit costs for Vancouver... so it can't be that bad. I'm sure that if a city of 2.2 million can afford a billion dollars, 3 nations with a total combined population of 500 million can afford it.

[navyweaxguy]

Well the latest maglev to be built is the one in China.. 20 miles 1.2 billion... Vladivostok to Anchorage is roughly 2800 miles... so at today's prices it would be around 168 Billion.. figure costs will rise and the harshness of teh enviroment being built and the remoteness.. you are looking at realistically 350-500 Billion to do that.

[SkyWatcher]

First off....I doubt very seriously we'll be buying much from China in 20-30 years when/if this thing gets built. No telling what country will be manufacturing all our goods then....might be a country not even on that continent.

Second, there WILL be a road involved, whether or not anyone can drive it for a 'Mickey Mouse' road trip is the real question. There has to be a service road somewhere in the deal for routine maintenance. Issuing a blanket statement that there will be no road is lunacy. If you menat there will be no PUBLIC road, then you might be correct.

Are there people who would drive if there were a public road in the project? YES. There are millions of people like me who don't fly. Yes it would be expensive, but there would be drivers who would do it, first for the records of course.

[Reminiscence]

Talk about being ambitious. This is the most daring plan I've heard since the Space Elevator idea. I think we're still decades away from this being built, and thats at the earliest. Maglev, or some other future design of train, should be able to reach speeds in excess of 600 mph in order for this to become a tourist option in my opinion as I dont think many people would use it. It is a crazy idea in the first place, but I guess when you dream you've got to dream big.

Maybe if we wait a few thousand (or million) years for Hawaii or California to make its way up to the Bering Strait, there wont be a need for a tunnel anymore. Not that it would benefit any of us today though. :rolleyes:

[WonderlandPark]

Not to mention trains are a much cheaper, more efficient (energy wise) form of transit than ship.


Umm, absolutely NOT, ships are far and away the most efficient way to move goods long distances.

[Nowhereman1280]

Umm, absolutely NOT, ships are far and away the most efficient way to move goods long distances.

Not really, that may be true for ridiculously bulk goods like grain or iron ore, but just as a truck wins over a train (when available) for smaller orders, a train wins over a Ship when available because it is faster and just as capable of carrying large quantities at a high efficiency...

Whatever the point is trains can outrun a ship any day and therefore people would rather use a shorter route at a higher speed (trains) rather than a longer route as a slower speed (cargo ships). Thus we can assume that this route will be favored over shipping making a tunnel of this nature highly desirable...


Also, someone suggested that we probably will be getting our goods from some other country by the time this would be completed, that's like saying we stopped getting our goods from Japan because China came around, Japan is still one of our top trading partners, we just get different goods from them now than we did in the 50's and 60's, nicer goods, cars and electronics instead of cheep toys and toasters, the same will happen to China as its economy approaches the development and wage levels of Japan...