[scania]

Which area would be the section to live in the next 2 or 3 years?

Allen Plaza
Midtown (between 5th & 10th)
Midtown (between 11th & 15th)
Atlantic Station

Keep in mind everything that is being built and going to be built.

My personal pick will be Midtown (between 5th & 10th). Because everything is pretty much in walking distance. The park is right in front of you, AP is a 10 or 15 minute walk, and on a good day AS is not to bad of a walk.

[sprtsluvr8]

Midtown is shinier, downtown more "real" in a way....I guess it depends on what appeals to you...

[dante2308]

Too many Atlanta threads here. This one should at least have the "ATLANTA:" title out of respect for the other cities in the "Southern States."

[SteveD]

Here's the current breakdown in the "Southern" subforum, by number of threads

Atlanta 24
New Orleans 10
Charlotte 6
Greenville 6
Mobile 5
Greensboro 5
Baton Rouge 4
"Alabama" 3
Birmingham 2
Montgomery 2
Richmond, Asheville, Savannah, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Louisville, 1 each

Also, my personal preference I believe would be for the Allen Plaza area.

[Chris Creech]

Even as a frequent Atlanta poster - I have to agree.

We do get way too many Atlanta posts going, a lot of them not even on particular blockbuster projects, or areas, but just general speculation and theoretical questions, quality-of-life, etc. A lot of those could probably more appriately be put under the general discussion Atlanta Thread.

Then there's the Atlanta Project Thread for general construction items.

Then aside from some larger blockbluster items, like Atlantic Station or MARTA/Transit we do seem to have a lot of needless threads.

[Andrea]

Then aside from some larger blockbluster items, like Atlantic Station or MARTA/Transit we do seem to have a lot of needless threads.

It would be nice if we can find some way to keep the connector problem on the front burner. It's really a gigantic hindrance to the recovery of downtown.

[MarketsWork]

It would be nice if we can find some way to keep the connector problem on the front burner. It's really a gigantic hindrance to the recovery of downtown.

Just when I was starting to feel sorry for you after everybody piled on about the "Andrea Connector" -- you go and stoke up the embers! I hope your Aussie friends enjoyed the view from that beatiful stretch of road. Come to think of it, I'm going to drive it tomorrow in your honor. Both ways!
:cheers:

[sprtsluvr8]

Downtown seems to be recovering quite well, in spite of the oppressive evil of the connector.

[jason21atl]

My vote is for Allen Plaza.

[dante2308]

Everything there is to say about the connector has been. That why that thread has died.

[LoveAtlanta]

Allen Plaza will be the best.

[CityFan]

I guess Allen Plaza will be number one.

[sprtsluvr8]

Everything there is to say about the connector has been. That why that thread has died.

More than everything really...and that damn connector has the nerve to STILL be sitting there.

[A-town]

Allen Plaza without thinking twice. Not to mention the number one community in Atlanta for years to come I think, Twelve CP is just across the street.

[Andrea]

Everything there is to say about the connector has been.

Au contraire. There's a consensus building to turn that 1960's era dinosaur into a 21st Century urban thoroughfare. If sensible minds prevail it will likely happen within the next 25-30 years. That's not very long at all, when you consider they're saying it may be 30-40 years before the Peachtree Streetcar is rolling and a century before the Beltline is done. I probably won't be around to see any of this personally but I'd like to think we can start laying the groundwork for a modern city.

As to my Aussie friends, they were mystified. They loved the river and they loved MARTA's $1.75 fare -- it's about $15 to ride the train from the airport to downtown Sydney. They were also impressed with the old Buckhead mansions and Grant Park. As to the rest of Atlanta, well, as we know, it's not exactly what you you'll find in some other cities. When I took them down Peachtree into downtown, they asked, "Could we see the central city area?" To which I replied, "Well, this is it." They didn't get it.

:haha:

[dante2308]

I'll give it to you, you do keep the topic dragging on. It seems that no one is talking about until you come around. If you really want it done, do more than post on this website. Create an interest society and petition the Mayor.

[Andrea]

I'll give it to you, you do keep the topic dragging on. It seems that no one is talking about until you come around. If you really want it done, do more than post on this website. Create an interest society and petition the Mayor.

Er, a lot of us are talking about it, Dante. I realize that many folks are invested in maintaining the status quo and are extremely defensive about anything that they fear might change the connector. But the rest of us are entitled to express an opinion, too.

[dante2308]

Er, a lot of us are talking about it, Dante. I realize that many folks are invested in maintaining the status quo and are extremely defensive about anything that they fear might change the connector. But the rest of us are entitled to express an opinion, too.

I hope you aren't referring to me because you aren't even on the same page with your response. In fact it can't even be called a response. Its really more of a general ranting aimed at the world. Did you lose a loved on on that thing? Or maybe you are so knee-jerk about the issue that you need to dreg it up to keep yourself going.

You are free to express your opinion of course. I don't think me saying that you should do more than post on a website is me telling you to not to post or me expressing fear about change or me even being defensive. All I was doing, really, was making the observation that the center of that argument is usually you. The "Andrea" connector is named after you after all which is fair because I'm almost certain that you are the person most passionate about the issue on these forums, if not, the internet.

[gttx]

In all fairness, Dante, Andrea has a pretty good point. While I certainly can't imagine the city without the Connector, I definitely think the quality and the urbanity of the central city would improve dramatically were it to be removed (and replaced elsewhere, of course). Sure, she gets passionate about it, but what's the big deal? Currently, all you're doing is provoking argument for the sake of argument, and turning an otherwise interesting discussion into an ad hominum attack on a well-educated Atlanta native who wants her city to be a better place.

[austin356]

I have had enough connector talk to last me several more months. Can we please move on 1)because it has been discussed to the point where everyone has made his/her points several times over and there is little new information 2)the damn thing will have zero chance of any change within the next couple of decades. The only possible change will be strategic caps.

And in response to the OP, I am think thinking 11th-14th... especially on Peachtree. How would that specific part of town be classified? Mid-Midtown?

[dante2308]

In all fairness, Dante, Andrea has a pretty good point. While I certainly can't imagine the city without the Connector, I definitely think the quality and the urbanity of the central city would improve dramatically were it to be removed (and replaced elsewhere, of course). Sure, she gets passionate about it, but what's the big deal? Currently, all you're doing is provoking argument for the sake of argument, and turning an otherwise interesting discussion into an ad hominum attack on a well-educated Atlanta native who wants her city to be a better place.

No way. If it appeared that way, no I'm not trying to inflame. I just don't appreciate off-base accusations. I think she makes a good point too, but I don't like her implying that I'm "invested in maintaining the status quo and are extremely defensive about anything that they fear might change the connector."

To be honest, I'm also somewhat tired of the argument repeating itself over and over again. There is an entire thread just for it and yet she wants to "keep the connector problem on the front burner." She's free to do and say what she pleases of course, but I'm not sure the discussion can really maintain itself at the forefront of everyone's mind indefinitely.

[CityFan]

In all fairness, Dante, Andrea has a pretty good point. While I certainly can't imagine the city without the Connector, I definitely think the quality and the urbanity of the central city would improve dramatically were it to be removed (and replaced elsewhere, of course).
I have to disagree with you on that. First of all I would like to know how you define central city. Without the connector, I am afraid there would be no Georgia Dome, Philips Arena, Georgia Aquarium or relocation of World of Coca-cola in downtown area. Visitors are not limited to intowners. Without the connector, subburbaners have no ways to get into town under today's condition. If you take all these away, what's left? There would be no midtown either. Where ever is the connector moved to, all facilities will have to follow. So the urbanity and connector go hand by hand. They are not separable. Too bad, but it's the fact. We are in car driving era until we can't afford driving cars. Driving cars is superb over any other means of transportion disregaring traffic jam. It gives you freedom, privacy, confort and efficiency. Downtown connector won't go anywhere. When it goes, the central city will go too.

[gttx]

Downtown areas across the country exist without freeways slicing through the middle of them - Atlanta would be no different. Yes, people in the suburbs do need access to the city, but it could just as easily come 1/2 mile, 2 miles, or however far away from the downtown area.

From your previous posts (and the discussion that has already taken place about this) I know that I could never convince you of anything, so let's just move on. Any more discussion about the Connector should take place in its respective thread.

[dante2308]

agreed, lets talk about the topic at hand.

[sprtsluvr8]

As to my Aussie friends, they were mystified. They loved the river and they loved MARTA's $1.75 fare -- it's about $15 to ride the train from the airport to downtown Sydney. They were also impressed with the old Buckhead mansions and Grant Park. As to the rest of Atlanta, well, as we know, it's not exactly what you you'll find in some other cities. When I took them down Peachtree into downtown, they asked, "Could we see the central city area?" To which I replied, "Well, this is it." They didn't get it.

:haha:

Had your friends never seen a central city or are they just mentally challenged? Or maybe you got confused and took them to Douglasville? I can hardly believe that being downtown on Peachtree St. isn't identifiable as a central city - especially Five Points or vicinity. Atlanta isn't exactly what you'll find in other cities...like which other cities and what exactly do you find there that Atlanta isn't/doesn't have? I tend to focus on the good things that Atlanta DOES have, and there are a lot of them.

Ya know, it's tiring to read the criticisms of Atlanta from outsiders, many of whom have never been here and simply jump on the easy targets that they read about. But it's even more of a concern when the pot shots and worn out "Atlanta isn't urban enough" crap comes from residents, and that's exactly where I think this is coming from. People in smaller/lesser cities than Atlanta (and there are MANY) would be and ARE amazed at the offerings of this city. If it's not good enough for you then try living in Montgomery, or Tulsa, or Toledo, etc...

Am I defensive? Yes, I am...and with good reason. If I were escorting friends around the city and they made sarcastic or rude comments like that one, the tour would be over. How about if you visit Sydney and criticize the city they are so proud of? I wonder what kind of defensive response you would get? Criticisms with a purpose are fine as are comments/questions seeking an actual answer. But a good visitor to a city keeps his catty comments and sharp criticisms to himself and enjoys the sights.

[atl2phx]

all i can say is DAMN people, feelin a bit "testy" lately?

[Andrea]

Am I defensive? Yes, I am...and with good reason. If I were escorting friends around the city and they made sarcastic or rude comments like that one, the tour would be over. How about if you visit Sydney and criticize the city they are so proud of? I wonder what kind of defensive response you would get? Criticisms with a purpose are fine as are comments/questions seeking an actual answer. But a good visitor to a city keeps his catty comments and sharp criticisms to himself and enjoys the sights.

Er, they weren't criticising Atlanta or being rude or sarcastic in the least. To the contrary, they went out of their way to praise our fair Southern town. And yes, I have visited them in Sydney and heard them voice a number of specific critiques of that city. I believe what threw them off is that in Sydney and many similar cities downtown is the center of business activity, shopping, street life, etc.

Although Sunbelt cities like Atlanta are different from the traditional urban model, that doesn't necessarily make us better or worse. We simply is what we is.

[Andrea]

[Y]our response. In fact it can't even be called a response. Its really more of a general ranting aimed at the world. Did you lose a loved on on that thing? Or maybe you are so knee-jerk about the issue that you need to dreg it up to keep yourself going.

Dante, everything I've said about this issue has been exceedingly civil, specific and factual. And I am hardly alone in my critique -- many astute, highly trained and concerned city dwellers, both here and elsewhere, find old style suburban freeways less than optimal for central cities.

That you view my comments as a "general rant against the world" or that you'd suggest that I've lost a loved one or need to "dreg it up to keep myself going" reveals a lot about your attitude toward this highway.

[A-town]

Andrea I have a question for you, or anyone else who can answer, but you specifically. When was it said that the Beltline would take a 100 years to complete.

[dante2308]

Dante, everything I've said about this issue has been exceedingly civil, specific and factual. And I am hardly alone in my critique -- many astute, highly trained and concerned city dwellers, both here and elsewhere, find old style suburban freeways less than optimal for central cities.

That you view my comments as a "general rant against the world" or that you'd suggest that I've lost a loved one or need to "dreg it up to keep myself going" reveals a lot about your attitude toward this highway.

No it doesn't reveal my attitude about the highway. You really lost track there and I really don't know how to bring you back aboard. Start by taking everything in context please. I haven't said a thing about the highway since your thread died and what I did say wasn't that the central city should have highways running through it. If I revealed anything, it would have been my attitude towards your obsession with the highway.

[dante2308]

Andrea I have a question for you, or anyone else who can answer, but you specifically. When was it said that the Beltline would take a 100 years to complete.

Its supposed to be completed in 25 years. The 100 year figure was pure pessimism. They actually have 200 million to start the Beltline today and the have acquired hundreds of acres as yet. Developments are even being planned and built way in advance.

[RobMidtowner]

Why do discussions about differing opinions turn into arguments about the argument rather than the actual opinions? :shrug:

A discussion of the merits of both sides would be much more productive. :yes:

[A-town]

Thanks for clearing that up Dante, 25 years sound right.

[Trae]

Even as a frequent Atlanta poster - I have to agree.

We do get way too many Atlanta posts going, a lot of them not even on particular blockbuster projects, or areas, but just general speculation and theoretical questions, quality-of-life, etc. A lot of those could probably more appriately be put under the general discussion Atlanta Thread.

Then there's the Atlanta Project Thread for general construction items.

Then aside from some larger blockbluster items, like Atlantic Station or MARTA/Transit we do seem to have a lot of needless threads.
That's what local forums (Atlanta Metroscape) are for. :)

You don't have to worry about things like this. You can make a thread like this, or the others you mention. They won't be crammed into one thread (like the Atlanta Discussion thread, or Atlanta Project thread).

[EXbubba]

Had your friends never seen a central city or are they just mentally challenged? Or maybe you got confused and took them to Douglasville? I can hardly believe that being downtown on Peachtree St. isn't identifiable as a central city - especially Five Points or vicinity. Atlanta isn't exactly what you'll find in other cities...like which other cities and what exactly do you find there that Atlanta isn't/doesn't have? I tend to focus on the good things that Atlanta DOES have, and there are a lot of them.

Ya know, it's tiring to read the criticisms of Atlanta from outsiders, many of whom have never been here and simply jump on the easy targets that they read about. But it's even more of a concern when the pot shots and worn out "Atlanta isn't urban enough" crap comes from residents, and that's exactly where I think this is coming from. People in smaller/lesser cities than Atlanta (and there are MANY) would be and ARE amazed at the offerings of this city. If it's not good enough for you then try living in Montgomery, or Tulsa, or Toledo, etc...

Am I defensive? Yes, I am...and with good reason. If I were escorting friends around the city and they made sarcastic or rude comments like that one, the tour would be over. How about if you visit Sydney and criticize the city they are so proud of? I wonder what kind of defensive response you would get? Criticisms with a purpose are fine as are comments/questions seeking an actual answer. But a good visitor to a city keeps his catty comments and sharp criticisms to himself and enjoys the sights.

I have watched Atlanta rise for the past few decades and while it is a big city with an urban core, it unfortunately seems to have forgotten its Sourthern roots and has become rather souless. My wife just got back from ATL and her impression was it was just like any other big concrete city. Not sure what she expected, but she was dissappointed at the hardness of downtown with so little greenery in the public spaces and even in Olympic Plaza. Just an opinion and not meant to be derogotory to ATL.

[RobMidtowner]

I have watched Atlanta rise for the past few decades and while it is a big city with an urban core, it unfortunately seems to have forgotten its Sourthern roots and has become rather souless. My wife just got back from ATL and her impression was it was just like any other big concrete city. Not sure what she expected, but she was dissappointed at the hardness of downtown with so little greenery in the public spaces and even in Olympic Plaza. Just an opinion and not meant to be derogotory to ATL.

Well everyone is entitled to there opinion but there's a lot more to ATL than downtown and it's very short-sighted to conclude a city has forgotten its roots and become souless from a short visit to a small section of the city.

[sprtsluvr8]

See, for some people Atlanta is too urban, for some not urban enough. :)

[CityFan]

What should southern roots look like? IMO, big city is big city. It means density and high rises, i.e., concrete constructions. It's not a laid back place.

[dante2308]

Atlanta is a huge and diverse place. Downtown is a complete different animal than Midtown which is on a tangent from Decatur which is a completely different world than Alpharetta which is the opposite of College Park. Take your friends around town a little more next time. Downtown doesn't really represent Atlanta very well.

[ATLonthebrain]

Downtown may not represent Atlanta very well, but it should. I often feel that when I visit a new city, if I am not impressed by the heart/core (Downtown), then there's not much to excite me about what may lie outside that central zone. In those instances, I walk away feeling indifferent about the city, at best. Some very good things are happening in Downtown ATL, and I hope it continues, along with more and more street life and residents, because that will lead to more visitors (and even ATL suburanites) siding favorably with their experience. I also think that in a few more years, Downtown & Midtown will grow together, and the whole stretch will feed on that union, creating a new far more vibrant center.

I know there are lots of cities that don't have an interesting or impressive core, but there are plenty that do, both large and small.

[dante2308]

Here in Atlanta, most people have access to everything the city has to offer at once using a car so many of the services that we enjoy are not centrally located. I live in Midtown around 14th street, so I don't especially get to go Downtown too often because I don't actually own a car and the summer heat is draining. Midtown, though, especially around Piedmont Park and Peachtree Street offers everything I could really ask for while being very different from Downtown. The feel of the place is entirely something else and I think that that type of diversity can only be achieved with some geographical separation. You can't fit everything that makes a city inside of three square miles or so. In the trying, you tend to sacrifice certain things. Also, the more whole communities there are in a city worth visiting, the more people can enjoy the amenities usually reserved for the core.

[JTLInATL]

Well everyone is entitled to there opinion but there's a lot more to ATL than downtown and it's very short-sighted to conclude a city has forgotten its roots and become souless from a short visit to a small section of the city.

However, you don't have to look very hard to find a city's soul if it's a "great city". Unfortunately, Atlanta has about the same soul as Dallas and Houston, which means very little pedestrian streetlife and inviting neighborhoods. I lived in Atlanta for 9 years, and struggled to find that soul myself.

[sprtsluvr8]

Atlanta doesn't have inviting neighborhoods? You didn't look very hard if you missed the fabulous in-town neighborhoods here...

This "soul" thing regarding cities has always amused me. Where exactly did you search for the soul of Atlanta? Was it Centennial Park? Piedmont Park? West End? Grant Park? Five Points? Georgia State? Woodruff Park? Underground? Fairlie-Poplar? I think these areas are a good start...and there is enough character and history in these and other spots around Atlanta to give you what you were looking for. I've never had to search for any "soul" of Atlanta...it was always obvious to me.

[RobMidtowner]

However, you don't have to look very hard to find a city's soul if it's a "great city". Unfortunately, Atlanta has about the same soul as Dallas and Houston, which means very little pedestrian streetlife and inviting neighborhoods. I lived in Atlanta for 9 years, and struggled to find that soul myself.

So basically what you're saying is that Atlanta is not a "great city". Eh whatever, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I'm just glad I can be happy here unlike you were it sounds like. :shrug:

[littlepnut]

I would half to say between 5th & 10th that is a nice area to live in!!! I mean think about it !!! You are sort of on Georgia Techs Campus, Near Tech Square, Close to Midtown Mile, Good Resturants, among other things I mean its building up around there So that would be the area that i would wanna live in. In fact i sort of live in that area .:) :D

[cybele]

A huge boost for Downtown:

SunTrust Takes 253,000 SF in Downtown Atlanta (http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=BDE9835C9E0434AE3159435D657626C7)

[ls1z28chris]

I have watched Atlanta rise for the past few decades and while it is a big city with an urban core, it unfortunately seems to have forgotten its Sourthern roots and has become rather souless. My wife just got back from ATL and her impression was it was just like any other big concrete city. Not sure what she expected, but she was dissappointed at the hardness of downtown with so little greenery in the public spaces and even in Olympic Plaza. Just an opinion and not meant to be derogotory to ATL.

Your wife needs to check out AtlantaTimeMachine.com and see the comparison photos. One thing that consistently amazes me is the fact that Atlanta's streets were basically treeless. In those historical photos Atlanta's streets look naked. It would appear that the city has made a conscious effort to plant trees and green the landscape. Not to mention the parks. They tore down several blocks to build Centennial Olympic Park, and also tore down about two blocks in the very heart of Downtown to build Woodruff Park. To say that Atlanta is soulless is simply not true.

My vote is for Allen Plaza.

[sunking1056]

Your wife needs to check out AtlantaTimeMachine.com and see the comparison photos. One thing that consistently amazes me is the fact that Atlanta's streets were basically treeless. In those historical photos Atlanta's streets look naked. It would appear that the city has made a conscious effort to plant trees and green the landscape.

Trees Atlanta can take much of the credit for that. The organization was originally created, in part, by a coalition of downtown business leaders who were disappointed with the lack of urban tree canopy.

[joecool]

Trees Atlanta can take much of the credit for that. The organization was originally created, in part, by a coalition of downtown business leaders who were disappointed with the lack of urban tree canopy.

I like the way Atlanta looked back then better than now. I think we have too many trees in some spot. New York is just fine without all the trees everywhere. I like some trees but in some spots I think its over kill.... just my opinion so don't even start blasting me for it..... lol :D

We need more art, fountains, and if we are gonna have greenery everywhere lets have some flowers instead of monkey grass and crap like that. What is the building next to 1010 that is shaped like a stop sign...... now that is NICE with the flowers and trees.

[joecool]

Well here are some examples of what I wish Atlanta would do....

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/joeyhowell/flowers_adorn_a_lantern_on_the_brid.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/joeyhowell/Paris_City_of_Art_Cover.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/joeyhowell/Paris-2002-294.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/joeyhowell/VersaillesGardenParisFrance.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/joeyhowell/wallacefountain.jpg

[sunking1056]

I like the way Atlanta looked back then better than now. I think we have too many trees in some spot. New York is just fine without all the trees everywhere. I like some trees but in some spots I think its over kill.... just my opinion so don't even start blasting me for it..... lol

I can respect your opinion for aesthetic reasons (though I disagree), but it's important to remember the countless other benefits urban forestry provides beyond aesthetics: increase air quality, decrease impermeable surfaces allowing better rainwater collection, lower sidewalk temperatures, reducing the heat island effect, reducing heating and cooling costs for buildings, and so on...

[atl2phx]

the transition of west peachtree's streetscape; new lighting, on street parking and trees (i think chinese elms) is amazing.

in two short years the street has changed dratically (IMHO) in no small part to the choice of and placement of trees as part of the streetscape. if in fact they are chinese elms, they are fast growers, drought tollerant and suited for an urban streetscape environment.

i don't have an before/after pics, but i have certainly noticed.

[reet]

the transition of west peachtree's streetscape; new lighting, on street parking and trees (i think chinese elms) is amazing.

in two short years the street has changed dratically (IMHO) in no small part to the choice of and placement of trees as part of the streetscape. if in fact they are chinese elms, they are fast growers, drought tollerant and suited for an urban streetscape environment.

i don't have an before/after pics, but i have certainly noticed.

Agreed -- I've noticed some great improvements in the W Peachtree streetscape from Technology Square up north to 10th Street. It's a really nice area to walk around. My main complaint is about the ginormous surface parking lot southwest of the Midtown MARTA station, off W Peachtree. That's a bad use of the space and an eyesore -- especially considering how nice that corridor could be given the boost by the Plaza Midtown building.

Otherwise, I'm really impressed with the improvements in that whole corridor. One of the best parts: buried utility wires.

[Atlantan26]

ya that marta parking lot has to be the worst in midtown/downtown

[jurban8]

I would love to see W Peachtree turned into a one way street, but who knows if that'll ever happen. Also, the black building next to the Palomar is so amazingly hostile it should be preserved as an example of how not to build.

[galaca]

you mean two way? W. Peachtree is already one way.

[plorenc]

I would love to see W Peachtree turned into a one way street, but who knows if that'll ever happen. Also, the black building next to the Palomar is so amazingly hostile it should be preserved as an example of how not to build.

I'm assuming you meant two way. In the Connect Atlanta Plan, I believe W. Peachtree is one of the streets planned for conversion to two way.

[jurban8]

Whoops!! Yes I meant two way lol. I know the Connect Atlanta Plan recommends this, but I'm waiting to see if it gets off the drawing board. I thought I heard a while back that there was a lot of resistance from I think the DOT - aren't Spring and W Peachtree state highways?

[Terminus]

Whoops!! Yes I meant two way lol. I know the Connect Atlanta Plan recommends this, but I'm waiting to see if it gets off the drawing board. I thought I heard a while back that there was a lot of resistance from I think the DOT - aren't Spring and W Peachtree state highways?

Only north of 14th.

[GTviajero81]

As someone who walks this area of W Peachtree daily (10th-5th streets) I appreciate more and more each day what is happening. I truly believe that turning W Peachtree into a two-way will bring more people to the area. On the flip-side it would be just as good to allow unfettered parking along the street. Then those who are patronising the restaurants and hotels in the area would feel free to park their vehicles which, in turn, makes pedestrians feel safer and more prone to walking along the sidewalks thereby increasing street presence. A two-way road is great but I truly believe that W Peachtree is too small for that. Ideally, parking on both sides of the street with two lanes in each direction would be most awesome. But since our roads in Atlanta are technically quite small we can not do this. The ultimate answer would be to two-way the entire length and then have parking on both sides, but that would slow down the driving speeds to the point of creating gridlock in Midtown.

[Terminus]

The ultimate answer would be to two-way the entire length and then have parking on both sides, but that would slow down the driving speeds to the point of creating gridlock in Midtown.

Actually it may increase capacity. It is well documented that two 2-lane streets carry more vehicles than one 4 lane street.

Even if delay does increase, the bigger issue is whether or not we should design our cities for the two vehicular peak hours of the average day, or the 22 other.

[cybele]

Even if delay does increase, the bigger issue is whether or not we should design our cities for the two vehicular peak hours of the average day, or the 22 other.

Yes. And if drivers experience some delay during peak hours, perhaps they will look to other ways of getting around.

[plorenc]

Even if traffic capacity falls, I think the health of the city and its inhabitants should come first. These are main throughfares throughout Midtown, but they should not be treated as highways. That's the purpose of the Downtown connector. There should be some streets in Midtown and Downtown that serve the city first.

[atl2phx]

Even if traffic capacity falls, I think the health of the city and its inhabitants should come first. These are main throughfares throughout Midtown, but they should not be treated as highways. That's the purpose of the Downtown connector. There should be some streets in Midtown and Downtown that serve the city first.

well said.

i recall seeing a long term redesign of w. peachtree and how it would provide access/egress with the connector around 17th street.

i can't find it, but it may have been a midtown alliance, blueprint initiative or even a private initiative.

anyway, it called for a 2-way w. peachtree and fewer 'expressway' style connections to the connecter in favor of shorter and more controlled access points connecting to a renewed grid west of peachtree and east of the connector.

whatever the source, it is exciting and refreshing proposal.

[smArTaLlone]

well said.

i recall seeing a long term redesign of w. peachtree and how it would provide access/egress with the connector around 17th street.

i can't find it, but it may have been a midtown alliance, blueprint initiative or even a private initiative.

anyway, it called for a 2-way w. peachtree and fewer 'expressway' style connections to the connecter in favor of shorter and more controlled access points connecting to a renewed grid west of peachtree and east of the connector.

whatever the source, it is exciting and refreshing proposal.

You may be referring to the Connect Atlanta plan which recommends taking W Peachtree from this....
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/pincfx/Transit/bigroad.jpg

to something like this.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/pincfx/Transit/WPchtreeafter.jpg

[atl2phx]

:previous:

thnx smArTaLlone, thats exactly what i was thinking of.

looks like a great plan with attributes that would be beneficial all along the downtown connector north and south of downtown. obviously much focus went into smart land use and creating a grid that evokes a livable and attractive environment that doesn't feel like freeway exit ramps cutting through the city.

like plorenc mentioned, even if capacity is throttled down a bit by converting 1-ways into 2-ways, the resulting environment would benefit that part of the city along with area businesses and residents.

i wonder if there's much hope for the connect atlanta projects to come to life anytime soon.

[trainiac]

Even if traffic capacity falls, I think the health of the city and its inhabitants should come first. These are main throughfares throughout Midtown, but they should not be treated as highways. That's the purpose of the Downtown connector. There should be some streets in Midtown and Downtown that serve the city first.


Well put. Pretty much every day I find that cross-walks on W. Ptree and Juniper are putting me in mortal danger. This is just for a sandwich at lunch, folks! We're talking 50 miles per hour through midtown -- most every vehicle goes that fast on these two roads whenever they can. Peachtree, North, 10th and 14th are far better behaved just because they are two-way. We should be beyond Herbert Jenkins' 1950's dream of one-way streets to speed auto traffic through the city. (and BTW, I love Cap. Jenkins!)

[Terminus]

Well put. Pretty much every day I find that cross-walks on W. Ptree and Juniper are putting me in mortal danger.

I love how the on-street parking has been put on Juniper south of 10th. It has made it much less of a car sewer. I wish the city would enact a similar treatment on all the four lane one-way streets at off-peak hours. Not only would it enhance pedestrian safety, but it would also make surface parking less needed and less profitable.

[RobMidtowner]

Actually it may increase capacity. It is well documented that two 2-lane streets carry more vehicles than one 4 lane street.

Even if delay does increase, the bigger issue is whether or not we should design our cities for the two vehicular peak hours of the average day, or the 22 other.

No they don't, one-way streets always have higher capacity because there are less movements to service at signalized intersections. It's a three phase intersection instead of four, and less signal phases=less delay.

We design for peak hours so that those hours aren't spread to several more hours throughout the day. I wouldn't want to walk down W. Peachtree if it was completely gridlocked, would you? Can you imagine the amount of smog?!?! I walk Spring and W. Peachtree regularly and it's really not the racetrack some of you describe. I'm all for pedestrian friendliness but don't let one speeder ruin traffic conditions for everybody.

[RobMidtowner]

Yes. And if drivers experience some delay during peak hours, perhaps they will look to other ways of getting around.

Or look for other locations with less delay during peak hours.

[smArTaLlone]

I love how the on-street parking has been put on Juniper south of 10th. It has made it much less of a car sewer. I wish the city would enact a similar treatment on all the four lane one-way streets at off-peak hours. Not only would it enhance pedestrian safety, but it would also make surface parking less needed and less profitable.


I agree. Its a much needed and welcome change.

[Terminus]

No they don't, one-way streets always have higher capacity because there are less movements to service at signalized intersections. It's a three phase intersection instead of four, and less signal phases=less delay.

Ooops...I spoke too quickly. I forgot the one-way component. I was thinking of two 2-lane roadways versus one 4-lane one. In the Midtown case the number of lanes and streets are constant, only the direction would change.

Sorry.

[ATLaffinity]

No they don't, one-way streets always have higher capacity because there are less movements to service at signalized intersections. It's a three phase intersection instead of four, and less signal phases=less delay.

help me out. isn't any time saved by not having to get to the one-way street to begin with?

and aren't spring and w. peach just quickly bringing you to bottlenecks during rush hour. in the grand scheme of things, does it really help move people at 5pm? Spring is backed up every rush hour. seems like it saves time when saving time isn't an issue.

even if OW is more efficient, it really detracts from the sense of place IMHO. and i live on Spring and W. Peach.

[RobMidtowner]

^It's not just Spring and W. Peach that benefit, it's all the cross streets too. The signals are much easier to coordinate and the intersections are safer.

If you want to know all the benefits of one-way pairs, then google it.

[smArTaLlone]

In addition to approving the transfer of $25 million to Marta, the ARC board also approved funding a list of projects with stimulus money including some in the city.


14th Street sidewalk improvements from West Peachtree Street to Piedmont Avenue.

Pedestrian improvements on Marietta Street and Centennial Olympic Park Drive. (Marietta-COP summary (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/docs/marietta-cop-design-concepts-8.5x11.pdf))

Farlie Poplar streetscape improvements on Nassau Street and Walton Street.

Midtown signal and ADA ramp improvements at twelve locations.



Full list of ARC projects (http://www.atlantaregional.com/documents/Amendment5Projects.pdf)

[joecool]

In addition to approving the transfer of $25 million to Marta, the ARC board also approved funding a list of projects with stimulus money including some in the city.


14th Street sidewalk improvements from West Peachtree Street to Piedmont Avenue.

Pedestrian improvements on Marietta Street and Centennial Olympic Park Drive. (Marietta-COP summary (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/docs/marietta-cop-design-concepts-8.5x11.pdf))

Farlie Poplar streetscape improvements on Nassau Street and Walton Street.

Midtown signal and ADA ramp improvements at twelve locations.



Full list of ARC projects (http://www.atlantaregional.com/documents/Amendment5Projects.pdf)

Well this is good! So will that money help Marta or is that amount not really all that much considering how much everything cost them?

[smArTaLlone]

Don't know if this has been mentioned here but the city is finally moving forward with the plan to improve the flea market appearance of the street vendors around town. They hope to begin the program in August

Kiosk plan charges vendors a $500 fee (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2009/06/15/atlcouncil0615.html)

[cybele]

Are these just isolated incidents or is there actually a problem? If so, who's responsible for these attacks and what can be done to stop them?


Georgia Tech robberies continue: 2 students held up (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/06/21/georgia_tech_robberies_continue.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

[sabino86]

Are these just isolated incidents or is there actually a problem? If so, who's responsible for these attacks and what can be done to stop them?


Georgia Tech robberies continue: 2 students held up (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/06/21/georgia_tech_robberies_continue.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

I actually knew the student from GSU that was shot. Crazy stuff...

[PedestriAnne]

Are these just isolated incidents or is there actually a problem? If so, who's responsible for these attacks and what can be done to stop them?

Not isolated. Not at all. Not even a little. My husband (at the time) was in grad school at GT from 2000 to 2002. He was robbed in front of a house on Hampton street the very same way not long before he graduated. One guy jumped out and held a knife to his throat while the other guy waited in the car. Home Park is (or at least was while I knew people living there) notorious for being a car break-in/mugging/kick in your back door and steal your stuff while you're gone hot spot. It's beyond ridiculous that's it's not only continued for the better part of a decade now, but is becoming so much more violent.

The same problem plagues residential areas heavily populated by students in rental housing in every large city I've lived in. Those people know that kids are coming home at all hours of the night, (sometimes after drinking), frequently aren't paying attention to their surroundings and are likely to be carrying/wearing something expensive or have expensive stuff in the house or the car.

Some of it is environmental also. If things haven't changed since I was spending time over there, many of the owners of rental houses in that neighborhood aren't exactly super-meticulous about keeping shrubbery trimmed and the porches and yards well-lit. The street lighting wasn't exactly top-notch, that I remember, either.

I hate it not only because it's just foul to steal from and shoot people, but also because it maligns the whole city when college students aren't even safe a block from campus. (No one is really ever "safe" anywhere, but you know what I mean.)

[cybele]

Who's responsible for these attacks? What can be done to stop them?

[PedestriAnne]

*Sigh* I don't know. With the APD being stretched thin already, I guess they don't have the resources to set up an ongoing decoy-type operation to bait these people with.

Hiring private security requires a level of coordination and participation (and money) that might be difficult to achieve in an area with a high percentage of transient, low-income renters.

It's strange - way back when they'd just finished the remediation and site work for Atlantic Station and word was getting around of just how incredibly, historically big this thing was going to be, a lot of the architecture and planning people that I knew were predicting that Home Park was going to completely change and become The Place to Live. They thought that much of the rental housing would be knocked down and redeveloped or sold off as fixer-uppers to wealthy people wanting to move back intown, but not interested in the new, highrise condos. Of course, this was at the peak of Condomania, when buying a house was as easy as falling down if you had a little money in the bank, and people thought it would go on forever.

[cybele]

Gee, yet another incident. Who's doing all this? How can we make them stop?

Gunmen hold up another student near Tech (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/06/24/student_robbed_gunpoint.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

[chubbydecker]

Gee, yet another incident. Who's doing all this? How can we make them stop?


Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!

[Brown Duckz]

Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!Racist much?

[cybele]

Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!

Yeah, how do we know that? :shrug:

[chubbydecker]

Racist much?

I'm sorry you misinterpretted what I was trying to say... Everyone knows it's really little green men from Mars that are committing all the crime around Georgia Tech.

[GTviajero81]

Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!

Such an asinine response.

Tool.

As someone who has close connections to Tech and religiously read The Technique there have been perpetrators of various races and ethnicities who commit crimes in the area and toward the students.

[cabasse]

I'm sorry you misinterpretted what I was trying to say... Everyone knows it's really little green men from Mars that are committing all the crime around Georgia Tech.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/623/ticfail.jpg

Tool.
yup

[Brown Duckz]

I'm sorry you misinterpretted what I was trying to say... Everyone knows it's really little green men from Mars that are committing all the crime around Georgia Tech.If you say so, you sound like one of those types that checks the local news webpage to comment on all the crime happening in the "Bad part" of town. :haha:

[joecool]

Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW! Ok, people get their post deleted when they argue about stuff but no one has deleted this? Really..........REALLY!!!!!!!

And to respond to your comment. People that make comments like that are what is wrong with the world.... :(

[KB0679]

Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!

White people don't rob other people?

[dante2308]

Comments like that don't really do anything. They don't serve a purpose or add to a discourse. It is a form of lashing out and it doesn't take into consideration the people of non-Caucasian heritage on this board who are completely innocent but have to be saddled with these stereotypes and associations with criminals.

Really disgusting. It offends anyone with a good conscience, empathy, or common sense.

[cybele]

I'd still be interested in knowing who IS committing these crimes and what can be done to stop them. It's pretty hard to create a livable urban area when you've got significant numbers of people being robbed at gunpoint and sometimes shot.

[RobMidtowner]

They caught two of them:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/06/25/tech_street_crime.html

[Atlantan26]

How can Atlanta be a desired area to live or relocate when people arent even safe in a parking deck of a gated community. That is pretty scary. I have to admit I'm almost paranoid about becoming a victim of crime as well. I dont leave my house at night very often anymore. That is very sad!
If the city doesnt get a handle on this crime everywhere. I suspect people will begin fleeing for the burbs like in past decades or even leave Atlanta in general. There's always that argument that there's crime in every big city. Which is very true. But the crime here is more rampant and widespread. I just hope the next mayor recognizes we need police engaging in the community more. In the more walkable neighborhoods the police need to be on foot or on some sort of bike or motor bike to have more of a presence. Downtown Atlanta I feel has a good police and security presence. Midtown and the other intown neighborhoods however have a non-existant one.

[ATLaffinity]

Midtown and the other intown neighborhoods however have a non-existant one.

Midtown Blue is excellent. They don't cover Westside.

It's almost impossible to completely stop this type of crime in a recession. I don't think ATL is uniquely incompetent in policing.

personally i would rather pay higher taxes. everyone whines about this but they have fits over paying an extra $200 a year in taxes.

[PedestriAnne]

Well I can tell you who is NOT doing it... White people!

Okay, so what would have been the "correct" interpretation of what you said, since we all seem to have managed to misunderstand it? :rolleyes:

The guy who robbed my husband in Home Park was very much white. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Terminus]

personally i would rather pay higher taxes. everyone whines about this but they have fits over paying an extra $200 a year in taxes.

I sense that the City of Atlanta's relatively low-density character is going to start to take its toll in the coming decades. The vast amount of horizontal infrastructure that we've come to know in many areas doesn't come cheaply, so we'll need to do one of the following:

1. Pay more in taxes

2. Experience further service cuts

3. Densify at a tax revenue positive level, or

4. Abandon large parts of the city

There's only so much that can come from improved efficiency at City Hall.

None of these are going to be easy, but people need to stop unilaterally complaining against more taxes, against service cuts, against density, or against those who question the "sanctity" of the the Atlanta lifestyle. They need to come to terms with the fact that something will have to give. Everything comes at a price.

Side note: Just think of what the even less dense suburban and exurban areas will experience in around 30 more years.

[cybele]

Very good points, Terminus. :tup: