More Atlanta skyline comparisons 1990 vs 2007 [Archive]

jfsatlbldr

Apr 22, 2007, 3:33 PM

Two more skylines from April 1990 vs April 2007;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Skyline%20Views/209a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Skyline%20Views/4-17-07020.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Skyline%20Views/208a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Skyline%20Views/4-17-07042.jpg

Some more views while we are up there;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Skyline%20Views/4-17-07029.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/Skyline%20Views/4-17-07003_edited-1.jpg

Sulley

Apr 22, 2007, 4:32 PM

Awesome... downtown sure is a lot more "green" than it was in 1990.

Coin

Apr 22, 2007, 11:57 PM

how did Atlanta's downtown-midtown-uptown population compare in 1990 versus today?

Andrea

Apr 23, 2007, 12:35 AM

Awesome... downtown sure is a lot more "green" than it was in 1990.

There really wasn't any significant change in the downtown skyline after 1991, was there? I'm thinking most of what we see is the product of the huge building boom of the 1960-70's, and the even more astonishing downtown boom in the 1980's. It's great to see things firing up again.

Wonderful photos as always, Joe!

AlabamaGuy2007

Apr 23, 2007, 1:37 AM

Awesome... downtown sure is a lot more "green" than it was in 1990.

You're completely correct. Even with all the new skyscrapers, it looks like the city got more vegetation.

gttx

Apr 23, 2007, 2:45 AM

Awesome... downtown sure is a lot more "green" than it was in 1990.

The first thing I thought when I saw that 1990 picture of downtown was "wow, there are no trees anywhere!" Glad to see things are improving.

Coin

Apr 23, 2007, 2:51 AM

...nobody gonna take a stab at my population question?

And by the way, the difference in greenery is mostly an illusion. Downtown now has Centennial Park,which makes a huge difference, but other than that, it's basically the same level of greenery. The 1990 pic is just a bit faded.

sunking1056

Apr 23, 2007, 3:14 AM

And by the way, the difference in greenery is mostly an illusion. Downtown now has Centennial Park,which makes a huge difference, but other than that, it's basically the same level of greenery

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The tree canopy in downtown has increased dramatically over the last 20 years due greatly to Trees Atlanta. In fact, Trees Atlanta was originally founded to address the lack of trees in the downtown business district. While it's certainly not a lush forest now by any means, it is definitely better.

atl2phx

Apr 23, 2007, 3:30 AM

wow, i had no idea about trees atlanta....looks like they've had a real impact. http://www.treesatlanta.org/aboutus.html

Dragonheart8588

Apr 23, 2007, 3:33 AM

wow, i had no idea about trees atlanta....looks like they've had a real impact. http://www.treesatlanta.org/aboutus.html

Trees Atlanta is a great organization. My school organization with another university in Atl helped them plant trees last month on Collier road. It was a great experience and quite fun actually. They always need volunteers.

Andrea

Apr 23, 2007, 4:00 AM

The tree canopy in downtown has increased dramatically over the last 20 years due greatly to Trees Atlanta.

That's one area where we are way ahead of NYC and Chicago:

"Today, New York City has 5.2 million trees, or 24 percent canopy cover. By comparison, Chicago's canopy cover is 11 percent and the rate for Atlanta is 37 percent."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3064822&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Derek

Apr 23, 2007, 4:03 AM

very interesting! thanks for sharing!

the changes are incredible

AlabamaGuy2007

Apr 23, 2007, 3:10 PM

One way the city could really spear-head all of the pollution that's floating around their air intake is to fund the planting of MORE TREES. The metro area is actually heavily wooded, but, they have a problem with not using the mass transit they have available in the outlying areas like Alpharetta, Roswell, and Gwinett. That is, from what I've seen.

But, the major thing that the cities in North Alabama have done, though not Decatur, Grrrr, is plant Ginkgoe trees. Cities like Florence, Huntsville, even some in Madison have planted these and I've been able to notice a difference. I've seen quite a few in downtown Montgomery too. Anyways, they love the carbon dioxide and are one of the best trees to filter out greenhouse gases. That's why the highways in DC are nasty but the parks are beautiful, cause they have those HUGE Ginkgoes growing around the place.

It works!

gttx

Apr 23, 2007, 4:50 PM

I'm no arborist, but I would have to say that ginkgos (sp?) are probably one of the most beautiful trees around in the fall - they turn a vibrant, bright yellow. There are a few around the Civil Engineering building at Georgia Tech that are phenomenal. I don't know anything about their efficiency at producing oxygen, but they're pretty nonetheless.

Coin

Apr 23, 2007, 5:10 PM

SteveD

Apr 23, 2007, 5:16 PM

I wonder if geckos enjoying sunning in ginkgos?

(sorry)

(four 0 four)

Apr 23, 2007, 10:29 PM

From the looks of all the pictures you posted in the various threads, you really made the rounds on Saturday! Great pictures...every last one of 'em!

smArTaLlone

Apr 23, 2007, 11:01 PM

Coin

Apr 24, 2007, 12:15 AM

Look at the lots bordering the park. There are trees that weren't there before.

Some spots have more trees and some spots have less. Let's not get technical. I'm just making an observation. I think the big difference is the vibrant colors of the newer pic along with centennial park. I don't think there are actually a ton more trees in that photo than were there before. Granted there are probably TONS more that this particular photo doesn't capture, but that's not what I was talking about.

Oh well, it's not an issue worth debating really. Great trees.

Does ANYBODY live in downtown/midtown/uptown Atlanta? What does it take to get someone to answer my population question? We got 5 million responses on trees and not a single response to a population question.

jfsatlbldr

Apr 24, 2007, 2:15 AM

I'm not basing my comment on personal experience (I hadn't visited Atlanta in 1990) but rather a picture-to-picture comparison. Centennial Park aside, you can almost count the exact same number of trees in the downtown photos. I'm sure there are many new trees that aren't captured by these photos, but based solely on the pics, I think it's mostly an illusion caused by the brighter, more vivid current photo.

Soooo, still nobody knows the population numbers for downtown/midtown/uptown atlanta in 1990 and 2007???
As i recall based on the 10 yr census; 1990 around 2.9 million, 2000 about 4.1 million, today of course having just past 5 million all figures for the entire metro area however. Remember also that some increase is due to additional smaller populated counties being included respectfully with each census for the metro area. I believe the overall Atlanta city pop. in 1990 was less than 400,000.

jfsatlbldr

Apr 24, 2007, 2:25 AM

From the looks of all the pictures you posted in the various threads, you really made the rounds on Saturday! Great pictures...every last one of 'em!
Yes i did. As a matter of fact i took nearly 500 photos from Friday thru Sunday at, around, inside and on top of 9.1 projects. The .1 was for scopeing out my future positions and vantage points for Trump Towers.

Coin

Apr 24, 2007, 2:38 AM

:banana: As i recall based on the 10 yr census; 1990 around 2.9 million, 2000 about 4.1 million, today of course having just past 5 million all figures for the entire metro area however. Remember also that some increase is due to additional smaller populated counties being included respectfully with each census for the metro area. I believe the overall Atlanta city pop. in 1990 was less than 400,000.

Thanks for responding. I'm looking for center city population though. The reason I ask is because it's common for people to say that Charlotte is 20 years behind Atlanta in many ways. I'm just curious to hear how Atlanta's core population grew from 1990 to 2007, for the sake of comparison.

Fiorenza

Apr 24, 2007, 3:06 AM

The 2000 census (effective April 1, 2000), had Atlanta city population at 416,474. The census estimate as of July 1, 2005 was 470,688.

SteveD

Apr 24, 2007, 3:32 AM

:banana:

Thanks for responding. I'm looking for center city population though. The reason I ask is because it's common for people to say that Charlotte is 20 years behind Atlanta in many ways. I'm just curious to hear how Atlanta's core population grew from 1990 to 2007, for the sake of comparison.

Coin, the reason no one is answering that question is because that kind of specific data for individual neighborhoods is hard to come by. I or any number of other population stat freaks could give you answers about other yardsticks such as city limit, county, MSA or CSA...individual neighborhoods...who knows? Atlanta's core population (meaning inside city limits) through much of the time period you are referencing was declining, and it has only in the last approximately 6 to 8 years started to rebound. Any other yardstick for Atlanta population, urbanized area, MSA, CSA, has been growing wildly, over that same time period. Metro Charlotte today is roughly the population Metro Atlanta was about 25 to 30 years ago.

Coin

Apr 24, 2007, 4:03 AM

Coin, the reason no one is answering that question is because that kind of specific data for individual neighborhoods is hard to come by. I or any number of other population stat freaks could give you answers about other yardsticks such as city limit, county, MSA or CSA...individual neighborhoods...who knows? Atlanta's core population (meaning inside city limits) through much of the time period you are referencing was declining, and it has only in the last approximately 6 to 8 years started to rebound. Any other yardstick for Atlanta population, urbanized area, MSA, CSA, has been growing wildly, over that same time period. Metro Charlotte today is roughly the population Metro Atlanta was about 25 to 30 years ago.
None of you Atlanta forumers discuss estimates of how many people live downtown? I woulda thought that with all the new condo construction you guys would have rough estimates of how many people are moving into the center city.

Fiorenza

Apr 24, 2007, 4:09 AM

How do you define "downtown"?

atl2phx

Apr 24, 2007, 4:18 AM

i'll throw this out there for what it's worth. the brookings institute conducted an analysis of downtown population trends between 1970 and 2000 - the results were published in 2005. by their own admission, the methodology for defining "downtown" was the most complicated aspect of the study, but they went on to say they used local public officials to define the downtown area for their city. these definitions were then associated with relevant census tracts. those defined areas were applied as a standard for determining downtown population every ten years since 1970. anyway, the nice thing about this study is the fact that there is consistency in applied standards coupled with the fact that "local" officials defined their own "downtown". so, here we go:

ATLANTA:
1970 Downtown Population = 24K
1980 Downtown Population = 19K
1990 Downtown Population = 20K
2000 Downtown Population = 25K

COIN, i'd estimate downtown atlanta to top 30K (at least) by 2010.

and COIN, since you were interested in charlotte, here are the numbers for the queen city:

CHARLOTTE:
1970 Downtown Population = 9K
1980 Downtown Population = 6K
1990 Downtown Population = 6K
2000 Downtown Population = 6K

and since it's a pretty decent read, here's a link to the study in it's entirety:
http://www.brookings.edu/metro/pubs/20051115_Birch.pdf

Coin

Apr 24, 2007, 11:20 AM

I appreciate that information, atl2phx. That's pretty much what I was looking for. It's true that defining the center city area is more difficult in some cities than in others. Uptown Charlotte has the 277 loop around it, making it more easy to separate 'Uptown' from the rest of the city. Atlanta's downtown/midtown/uptown boundaries aren't quite so cleanly defined. It should be interesting to see what the numbers look like for both cities by 2010. Like you said, Atlanta is estimated to be near 30k, and from what I'm hearing from the Charlotte grapevine, Charlotte will likely be close to 15k by 2010. It's fun to watch towers getting built and to have new amenities and venues going up, but IMO it's just as great to watch the population growth at the city's core.

mahanakorn

Apr 24, 2007, 3:34 PM

None of you Atlanta forumers discuss estimates of how many people live downtown? I woulda thought that with all the new condo construction you guys would have rough estimates of how many people are moving into the center city.

Some not very up-to-date info from http://www.atlantadowntown.com/DoingBusiness_Downtown_Glance.asp. Downtown boundaries are very specific, however.

Downtown Atlanta is a four-square-mile area centered near the intersection of Peachtree Street and Andrew Young International Boulevard. The area is generally bounded by North Avenue on the north, I-20 on the south, Northside Drive to the west and Boulevard to the east.

With more and more people opting for urban living, the residential population of Downtown is increasing annually. About 25,000 people live within a four-square-mile area in Downtown, making it a densely populated area with concentrated buying power.

From the year 1990 to 2000, there was a considerable change in the Downtown housing market. Vacancy in Downtown housing units decreased 57%, while ownership increased by 56% in those 10 years. Between the years of 1990-1997, 3,383 housing units were built or converted from non-residential uses in Downtown. In comparison, in 2003, there were approximately 11,500 housing units in Downtown, reflecting a very significant growth. (Source: 1990 and 2000 US Census, CAP research, and housing study conducted by Haddow & Company for COPA Inc. in May 1998)

Andrea

Apr 24, 2007, 5:29 PM

ATLANTA:
1970 Downtown Population = 24K

It would be interesting to know how they define downtown Atlanta. I can only think of two residential buildings in downtown back in 1970 -- the Peachtree Tower apartments and the Landmark condominium over on Harris. Roscoe Pickett may have had a penthouse on top of the Fulton National Bank and Dr. Goldstein may have had one at the Americana but I believe that was about it as far as housing in what I think of as downtown proper. There couldn't have been more than a few hundred people living there at that time.

Perhaps they are including residential neighborhoods like Bedford-Pine, Techwood, Capitol Homes, English Avenue, the Old Fourth Ward, etc.

sprtsluvr8

Apr 24, 2007, 5:41 PM

I think it was defined in the post above, bordered by North Ave, Boulevard, I-20, and Northside Dr. which comes to 4 square miles.

Andrea

Apr 24, 2007, 6:02 PM

I think it was defined in the post above, bordered by North Ave, Boulevard, I-20, and Northside Dr. which comes to 4 square miles.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's my impression that we're moving to a qualitatively different type of downtown housing than what we had 40 years ago -- more highrise and midrise buildings, lofts (which were almost unheard of in Atlanta back then), rejuvenated housing projects and gentrified single family neighborhoods.

sprtsluvr8

Apr 24, 2007, 6:09 PM

I have a friend who has lived downtown for around 25 years...his loft is on Mitchell Street where the old Hotel Row used to be. He said when he first moved to the area, resident's cars were constantly towed because the police never believed there were actually people who lived in that area. It took them years to convince APD that the parking permits were real and that the cars parked overnight in the area belonged to residents. I thought that was pretty funny...but also a testement to how few people lived downtown and the hardships they faced as pioneers of downtown living. :)

Andrea

Apr 24, 2007, 7:31 PM

He said when he first moved to the area, resident's cars were constantly towed because the police never believed there were actually people who lived in that area. It took them years to convince APD that the parking permits were real and that the cars parked overnight in the area belonged to residents.

:haha:

I remember the first time I went to a party in a loft down on Peters St. back in the 80's. This guy must have had about 20,000 s.f., and he was asking the astronomical price of $65,000 for it.

Of course I was way too clever to fall for an investment like that!

(four 0 four)

Apr 24, 2007, 9:31 PM

I have a friend who has lived downtown for around 25 years...his loft is on Mitchell Street where the old Hotel Row used to be.
I used to live on that same block...225 Mitchell. The Scoville (sp?) Hotel was next door and from the looks of the lobby, nothing had changed since the 1930's (even the 'guests'). Homage coffee house and an occasional opening at Trinity Gallery was about the only thing that brought outsiders into the hood. There was a certain energy to living downtown but I can't say I miss Mitchell St.

alleystreetindustry

Apr 26, 2007, 11:36 PM

do i see the tabernacle B)?

sprtsluvr8

Apr 27, 2007, 2:52 PM

RobMidtowner

Apr 27, 2007, 7:44 PM

The weird thing about living downtown at that time, according to my friend, was that everyone was so afraid of "downtown crime", yet there was virtually zero crime in the entire downtown area beacuse NOBODY LIVED THERE. You could safely walk around any street without fear of crime...it's still pretty much that way from what I understand, but there is a danger stigma that is still associated with any downtown.

Uhhh....did you not hear about the shootings at CNN and Centennial Park a couple weeks ago?

krw8008

Apr 27, 2007, 7:50 PM

Uhhh....did you not hear about the shootings at CNN and Centennial Park a couple weeks ago?

Yeah, but those were incidents that could have happened anywhere, particulary the CNN shooting. That was a domestic incident. I mean there have been shooting incidents at Atlantic Station, Piedmont/Cheshire Br, Buckhead areas in recent months. Downtown does tend to get an unfair amount of flack on the crime front when this stuff can happen in any part of the city, and now many suburbs, for that matter.

BnaBreaker

Apr 27, 2007, 7:52 PM

NICE! I love photo comparisons. Thanks for putting this together.

Andrea

Apr 27, 2007, 8:03 PM

The weird thing about living downtown at that time, according to my friend, was that everyone was so afraid of "downtown crime", yet there was virtually zero crime in the entire downtown area beacuse NOBODY LIVED THERE. You could safely walk around any street without fear of crime...it's still pretty much that way from what I understand, but there is a danger stigma that is still associated with any downtown.

Well, I don't consider downtown particularly dangerous but it's certainly not free of crime. There's crime in all parts of town. Here's a map showing reported crime in the downtown area during a two week period in late Feb/early March:

http://andreabennett.com/public/various/crimemap.jpg

RobMidtowner

Apr 27, 2007, 8:08 PM

Yeah, but those were incidents that could have happened anywhere, particulary the CNN shooting. That was a domestic incident. I mean there have been shooting incidents at Atlantic Station, Piedmont/Cheshire Br, Buckhead areas in recent months. Downtown does tend to get an unfair amount of flack on the crime front when this stuff can happen in any part of the city, and now many suburbs, for that matter.

Yeah it could happen anywhere, but it did happen in downtown. You can't predict crime (unless you're a Precog from Minority Report), but you can try to learn and adjust from previous documented events. Look I'm not trying to knock on Downtown, I was just responding to sprtsluv8's comment about downtown's danger stigma.

krw8008

Apr 28, 2007, 12:57 AM

oldpainless

Apr 29, 2007, 1:05 AM

Let me guess.... top of 191 Peachtree? If so how did you manage that?

Hybrid0NE

Apr 29, 2007, 5:01 AM

Let me guess.... top of 191 Peachtree? If so how did you manage that?

jfs is part of the Builders Cult that worships there at midday weekly. What other purpose would such ornate twin temples serve on top of a skyscraper? :haha:

GOOD EYE. I was trying to figure out where he got those photos from, I guess I would've figured 191 eventually since it's in none of the shots.

oldpainless

Apr 29, 2007, 10:15 PM

jfs is part of the Builders Cult that worships there at midday weekly. What other purpose would such ornate twin temples serve on top of a skyscraper? :haha:
ha, thats pretty good. The top of 191 always reminded me of the top of that building from Ghostbusters where they open up the interdimensional portal and fight Zool.

All 191 needs are some mean looking gargoules!

sabino86

Apr 30, 2007, 3:35 AM

jfsatlbldr

Apr 30, 2007, 12:35 PM

ha, thats pretty good. The top of 191 always reminded me of the top of that building from Ghostbusters where they open up the interdimensional portal and fight Zool.

All 191 needs are some mean looking gargoules!
I agree too! Some gargoyles like these perhaps. That's me getting upclose and personal with some of my favorites at another place of worship.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/misc/0064916-R1-E013a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/jfsatlbldr/misc/2-132a.jpg

sprtsluvr8

May 2, 2007, 3:13 PM

Yeah it could happen anywhere, but it did happen in downtown. You can't predict crime (unless you're a Precog from Minority Report), but you can try to learn and adjust from previous documented events. Look I'm not trying to knock on Downtown, I was just responding to sprtsluv8's comment about downtown's danger stigma.

So did you hear about the murders in Hall County yesterday? I'm not sure, but using your logic I should probably stay away from the dangers of Hall County. My post was actually referencing PAST stigma that downtown was dangerous, even when hardly anyone lived downtown. But it still gets an unfair and unwarranted relationship with crime and danger...with "documented events" being the main problem. People read a story about crime downtown and decide to stay in their safe little suburb; people read a story about crime in Dunwoody, yet they don't have the same reaction (and there are crimes in Dunwoody). That was my point when I stated that "downtown is relatively safe"...meaning that random crime may happen anywhere in town, and that downtown isn't anymore of a dangerous area than the rest of Atlanta.

RobMidtowner

May 2, 2007, 3:25 PM

So did you hear about the murders in Hall County yesterday? I'm not sure, but using your logic I should probably stay away from the dangers of Hall County. My post was actually referencing PAST stigma that downtown was dangerous, even when hardly anyone lived downtown. But it still gets an unfair and unwarranted relationship with crime and danger...with "documented events" being the main problem. People read a story about crime downtown and decide to stay in their safe little suburb; people read a story about crime in Dunwoody, yet they don't have the same reaction (and there are crimes in Dunwoody). That was my point when I stated that "downtown is relatively safe"...meaning that random crime may happen anywhere in town, and that downtown isn't anymore of a dangerous area than the rest of Atlanta.

Did I ever say that people should stay away from downtown because of the crime? I mentioned the shootings because you originally said downtown had "virtually zero crime" in the past and "it's still pretty much that way" and saying that there's pretty much zero crime downtown today is just not true. I do agree though that downtown has a reputation of crime that is probably much more exaggerated than many other places in the metro but what can you do? You can't force people to think a certain way. :(

Atlriser

May 2, 2007, 8:48 PM

Regarding crime downtown it's actually got one of the lowest crime statistics of all the 'beats' of the Atlanta Police Department and based on population statics has some of the best (if that word is appropriate for crime) rates compared to other downtown cities and the Atlanta City area overall.

So perception in this case is off base from reality.