[NYguy]

eeeh... hate to be a downer but the original, especially counting the mass of it was quite a bit larger

The mass was certainly larger, but the impact on the skyline will be pretty much the same. Can't see why anyone would be "down" about that.

[Zapatan]

still say the original 2wtc makes this building look like a lamp post.

[STR]

STR, may I request a render of the entire new/old WTC complex side by side? :)

Yeah, I could cook something up tomorrow. Are you thinking from ground level, or from the air, or what? Please be specific.

Here's the crop from today. I had a request to show of 3 & 4, which aren't done, but here's a bit more of them. I think one of these even shows the placeholder I have for Tower 5.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/182/t230.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5207/t231.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2923/t232.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2086/t233.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/985/t2342.jpg

Messing around with material settings. I think this gives a much better metallic effect. The trick now is to make it not take 30 min/render, while still keeping it looking good.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3524/t235.jpg

[uaarkson]

From the air would be great. Something to show the full height/size of the new complex vs. the old.

I'm telling you man, these renders could get you noticed in a big way.

[NYguy]

still say the original 2wtc makes this building look like a lamp post.

Yeah, a 1,300 ft tall lamp post, with a little brother nearly as tall. You can find many things to complain about with this tower (as I'm sure you will), but size shouldn't really be one of them.


http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6137/t213.jpg

[STR]

A little earlier than promised...

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2638/comp1l.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1995/comp2w.jpg

[NYguy]

A little earlier than promised...

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2638/comp1l.jpg



Wow, very impressive work. Tower 2 seems to be the star of the entire complex, but we're years away from seeing how that plays out. My only complaint is that
from the north side, T2 rises as a sheer, plain wall (fins included) for almost the entire height. The diamonds that allow for a stepped back, rise near the summit
aren't visible. In that sense, it's more like the originals, and will be just as dominating, even with more towers present. Overall though, I say we can't complain.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/92288666/original.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/933692-T800600.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/933691.jpg

[uaarkson]

http://welpfolks.net/forum/images/smilies/clap.gif http://welpfolks.net/forum/images/smilies/clap.gif http://welpfolks.net/forum/images/smilies/clap.gif

Better than any official renders.

[sterlippo1]

beautiful but now we can see what an extra 200+ ft or so on 7WTC would have meant closing up that space..........

[yankeesfan1000]

SRT, incredible work man, this is such a gorgeous building. It's really nice to see all the angles from Midtown, this complex and cluster of skyscrapers is going to be gorgeous when finished.

[winlinmac001]

BTW- How do they plan to utilize Window-washing on this building? You can't use same window-washing machines like those present on the former trade center, can you?:D

[STR]

The former WTC, like the Sears Tower and few other buildings, use(d) a completely automated system, where a robot would scale up and down the building on rails.. Most buildings don't these days, instead using old school window washers. As far as I can tell, the top 3 floors of 2WTC house a window washing crane. I'm not sure if there's more than that on the building, but I'd bet there is.

[winlinmac001]

:previous: Interesting approach.
BTW- To those that are complaining about the new WTC site, Do Not underestimate its scale! ;)

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Is it now certain that construction will put on-hold when it reaches streetlevel?

[uaarkson]

:previous: Not at all, although that is the current plan.

[scalziand]

Nice job with the diamonds on the top, STR.:cheers:

[STR]

^ the performing arts center (which i think is way out of place there but thats just me). Has there been any progress on this building.

Kinda digging this up, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere, but the design for the PAC (which, honestly, isn't nearly as bad as Gehry is capable of) and the latest news

http://www.tribecatrib.com/news/2010/october/757_world-trade-center-performing-arts-theater-to-get-100m-boost.html
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/691/wtcpacupdate.jpg

[IMADreamer]

Those renders are great, they really help put in in perspective. Thank you for posting those.

Now I'm really excited about seeing this all completed.

[Don098]

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5207/t231.jpg



This is my favorite angle of the entire complex, by far.

[winlinmac001]

@STR, would it be possible to post a rendering of the new Overall WTC site, incorporating the WTC Transportation Hub, Memorial Pavilion (Visitor Center), Performing Arts Center, and Trees in and around the site. This would be awesome! I wonder how some detailed WTC Retail renderings look like. Also, where is Vehicle Security Center? :)

[STR]

^Easy for you to say, you don't have to do the work. ;) I'd have all that all done by around...oh...January if I don't get distracted by real life things.

[NYguy]

Is it now certain that construction will put on-hold when it reaches streetlevel?

Silverstein doesn't have money to complete the tower. It's planned to reach street level by December of next year. He will need a tenant to get financing by then, or this tower will stop at street level. It's not decided what will fill the space until he get's financing, but some have suggested a plaza or open market.



Kinda digging this up, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere, but the design for the PAC (which, honestly, isn't nearly as bad as Gehry is capable of) and the latest news


You can find more on that in the memorial thread or tower 5 thread where it was originally posted.

[sw5710]

When should we see the 1st steel beam ?

[NYguy]

When should we see the 1st steel beam ?

Don't know, but we should begin to see the cores of both towers 2 and 3 form soon.

[STR]

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3337/hub05.jpg

[sterlippo1]

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3337/hub05.jpg

your work is incredible, thank you for all the time you put in doing these renderings for all of us to see what we are getting.............real soon :tup:

[Zapatan]

Is it weird that I get an erection looking at your renderings? I mean.. that happens to everyone else right?...


:shrug:

[goldcntry]

Ummm.... :skyscraper:

:runaway:

[sterlippo1]

Is it weird that I get an erection looking at your renderings? I mean.. that happens to everyone else right?...


:shrug:

the funniest post since i've been on here:tup: ......me? no comment;)

[NYC4Life]

Is it weird that I get an erection looking at your renderings? I mean.. that happens to everyone else right?...


:shrug:

We've all heard about steel porn, stair porn...etc. Now it's "Render Porn" :jester:

[winlinmac001]

Wow, I mean those renderings made tears in my eyes. Not kidding. The previous post made my day, btw, lol.

The new WTC complex is so much better than its predecessor, no doubt about it.

:banana:

[CoolCzech]

Is it weird that I get an erection looking at your renderings? I mean.. that happens to everyone else right?...


:shrug:

Well I don't know... are you... male?

[winlinmac001]

^^^
That site has been a gaping hole for years. Its about time the wound get healed. The site will definitely become an engineering marvel in the years to come. :cheers:

[2WTC]

What a wonderful building. However, it's not expected to reach ground level until late 2011, and after that, it could be built to only 5 or 6 levels if funds are not found. :( WE MUST SAVE 2WTC!!!!!! :yes:

[winlinmac001]

I don't doubt the building will get funded. Everybody wants to see this along with the other buildings get built. There's no time time to spare. This will restore all the office space that was lost on 9/11 and when I mean lost, I mean all the space that was practically in use before that horrible day.

@STR, I appreciate your efforts for making a 4D model of the how the site will look.

I also hope the 5th Tower gets constructed.

:whip:

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Silverstein doesn't have money to complete the tower. It's planned to reach street level by December of next year. He will need a tenant to get financing by then, or this tower will stop at street level. It's not decided what will fill the space until he get's financing, but some have suggested a plaza or open market.


If Silverstein is able to find any tenant, that tenenat will go to Tower 3. That is certain, because it of the deal they made with the PA. Unfortunately I don't see any chances for this tower to be completed before 2015.

[CoolCzech]

What a wonderful building. However, it's not expected to reach ground level until late 2011, and after that, it could be built to only 5 or 6 levels if funds are not found. :( WE MUST SAVE 2WTC!!!!!! :yes:

Well, hopefully the business cycle will finally hit the upside just about the time construction reaches that point. Then we'll suddenly see a flurry of stories about the shortage of Class A rental space in lower Manhattan.

[NYguy]

If Silverstein is able to find any tenant, that tenenat will go to Tower 3. That is certain, because it of the deal they made with the PA.

Not certain at all, it's a tenant's preference that will determine which tower gets a tenant first. If Silverstein was able to get a sizeable tenant for tower 2, financing wouldn't be the problem that it is now. On the other hand, Silverstein only needs a minimal signing to get help from the City and the Port Authority to finance tower 3.

[Onn]

Silverstein dropped plans to build tower 2 first.

[Zapatan]

I don't really think people need to worry, I'm pretty sure the tower will be built in any case.


I do think it would look way better though if the last 80 feet or the "spire" where solid, like covered in some kind of glass or something to make it look like the whole building goes to 1350 feet and doesnt stop at 1270

[brian.odonnell20]

is construction up to ground level going to be sluggish?

[NYguy]

I do think it would look way better though if the last 80 feet or the "spire" where solid, like covered in some kind of glass or something to make it look like the whole building goes to 1350 feet and doesnt stop at 1270

Hardly matters, because the whole thing comes to a point. I don't think that percentage will make an overall difference.


is construction up to ground level going to be sluggish?

It will be the same as the rest of the towers that have already reached ground level. It's expected to reach street level by January 2012.

[hunser]

http://www.lowermanhattan.info/construction/project_updates/world_trade_center_tower_49193.aspx

UPDATE: As of spring 2010, the Tower 2 site is expected to be built to grade with the option of full construction pending real-estate market conditions.

*The following information was last updated on November 5, 2010

* Foundation work and footings preparations at the T2 site began in summer 2010. It is expected to be complete to grade by 2013.
* Drilling, demolition, rock excavation

[NYguy]

the Tower 2 site is expected to be built to grade with the option of full construction pending real-estate market conditions.

Translation, Silverestein better get a tenant if he wants financing.

[NYC4Life]

I would expect he does soon since there are large corporations looking for office space.

[NYC4Life]

* Foundation work and footings preparations at the T2 site began in summer 2010. It is expected to be complete to grade by 2013.

Wow, 3 years sure is a long time just to see this being built to street level.

[slayerhk47]

Wow, 3 years sure is a long time just to see this being built to street level.

Perhaps the length in time has to do with the subway station next to it?

[winlinmac001]

Or perhaps they are planning to choose what should be the final design. A few extra feet wouldn't hurt. :P

[Don098]

Or perhaps they are planning to choose what should be the final design. A few extra feet wouldn't hurt. :P

I think it would hurt...that would throw the entire scale of the complex off while simultaneously stunting WTC1. If any building should be taller, it's WTC1 in my opinion, by about 100 feet. That's when I believe the height proportions would have been perfect. I honestly think WTCs 2, 3 and 4 are too tall by that same amount. I'll never understand the obsession over height. Designed as a compliment to the star of the show, I think 1,278 feet is plenty tall...

[Obey]

I think it would hurt...that would throw the entire scale of the complex off while simultaneously stunting WTC1. If any building should be taller, it's WTC1 in my opinion, by about 100 feet. That's when I believe the height proportions would have been perfect. I honestly think WTCs 2, 3 and 4 are too tall by that same amount. I'll never understand the obsession over height. Designed as a compliment to the star of the show, I think 1,278 feet is plenty tall...

Couldn't have said it better myself. The only tower that should have been taller was 1WTC to stand out more.

[CHAPINM1]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The only tower that should have been taller was 1WTC to stand out more.

What are you both talking about? Height is just as important, especially in this complex. It has to be the perfect mix of design AND height. I do agree though about 1WTC being a little taller to stand out more. Also, I wish that the top of 2WTC would be at least 1,362 feet to give omage to 2WTC Volume 1 just like the top of the parpet is 1,368 for 1WTC to give omage to 1WTC volume 1.

[Don098]

No one outside of this forum knows about the former heights of the original WTC, nor do they care. Great architecture should speak for itself without any explanation, and operates independently of arbitrary (but in this case symbolic) heights. I'll bet you a thousand dollars that if you were to ask any general citizen to guess the heights of buildings, they wouldn't know 1,000 from 1,200 feet, or even 500 feet from 1000 feet. But people would notice more general artistic appearances like proportion, scale, and quality of design. People get way too hung up on skyscraper heights, that's all I'm saying... Give me the Chrysler building over the Burj Dubai any day of the week.

Anyway, does anyone have recent pictures of the foundation work? I feel like it's been two to three weeks since I've seen any isolated shots of the site, and I'm sure much has been done since. Thanks!

[sw5710]

At least 2 WTCv2 is 1358' to the top. About the same as 2WTCv1 1362'

[STR]

No one outside of this forum knows about the former heights of the original WTC

I'd argue most people HERE don't know the exact height of the building. Sure, they can quote 1368/1362 but most don't know where the measurement starts, when it stops, or that the most common perception of those building's heights was actually around 1358, where the aluminum facade ended, the full heights includes things you wouldn't even see unless you were standing on the roof. I'm not even sure how accurate those numbers are given some of the things added to the top of Tower 2 as an afterthought.

Point is, don't ##### about 10 measly feet. You don't even know if that's the real number. I sure as hell don't, and I'm the f######g resident expert on the place.

[NYguy]

I can still remember when the height of the Twin Towers was given as 1,350 ft.


Update from wtc.com (Nov 8)

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/975305-S1300x600.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/975305.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/975309.jpg

[STR]

Wow, 3 years sure is a long time just to see this being built to street level.

I think it's bad info. Originally the tower was supposed to be done by 2013. As of right now, there's no set date, so they just reused (misapplied) the old date to the current program. I'd actually be surprised if they really did leave the site just at grade, there's a lot of construction that's actually part of the PA funded transit hub, so I'd expect we'll at least see a stump rising up to the 4th floor, leaving a really nice entrance to the PATH station and 5 floors of retail (3 in the stub, 2 beneath).

[Zapatan]

I can still remember when the height of the Twin Towers was given as 1,350 ft.




Exactly, I would bet that there would probably be some slight tweaking to the towers' design before construction... That being said I think the spiral element is kind of lost anyway as tower two is already very close to the height of tower 1, and to be honest I like it better that way, The spiral idea is kind of silly IMO.

But 1 WTC does have the communications ring up to 1400 feet so even if tower 2 ended up with a roof height of 1300 or so and close to 1400 to the tip it would still look slightly smaller from most angles, Towers 3 and 4 are also much close in height than most of the renderings show (most show tower 4 way too small, I mean look at the NYC diagram) there is only 175 feet between them and many renderings make it look like there is at least 300.

The towers are all pretty tall as is, but I do agree 1WTC should have been at least 100 feet taller.

I'm sure there were be some slight design and height modifications to the other towers though. Nothing huge but still.

BTW sweet that we can see the outline for the core of tower 2 already!

[STR]

^1350 was the height of the parapet on the Twin Towers, through adjustments that ended up as 1358/1364 on the buildings as constructed. The rest of the height up to 1362/1368 was a slight mound-like shape of the roof cause by the hat truss, which was modified to this design when the PA agreed to relocate broadcasting facilities to the WTC when concerns grew about "ghosting," which is when you get the signal from ESB, then a split second later you get a reflection off the WTC resulting in a slight double image. With digital TV, you don't have nearly as much of a problem with this due to built-in error correction, which is why you haven't heard much about this now.

Anyway, since both towers were built with this same hat truss (which also connected the famous perimeter columns to the central core), the old 2WTC was fully able to mount an antenna as large as the one on 1WTC.

The new tower 1 is 1368 to the parapet, which means it does look slightly taller than the original tower when placed side by side, even when you exclude the directional broadcasting equipment.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4739/fin11g.jpg http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6137/t213.jpg

And some new stuff:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3227/w001.jpg

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1785/w002.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1896/w003.jpg

From Top of the Rock
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/728/w005h.jpg

From Empire State, outdoor deck.
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5195/w006.jpg

And because, why the hell not, the 102nd floor as well.
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7643/w007s.jpg

[NYguy]

Exactly, I would bet that there would probably be some slight tweaking to the towers' design before construction... That being said I think the spiral element is kind of lost anyway as tower two is already very close to the height of tower 1, and to be honest I like it better that way, The spiral idea is kind of silly IMO.

But 1 WTC does have the communications ring up to 1400 feet so even if tower 2 ended up with a roof height of 1300 or so and close to 1400 to the tip it would still look slightly smaller from most angles, Towers 3 and 4 are also much close in height than most of the renderings show (most show tower 4 way too small, I mean look at the NYC diagram) there is only 175 feet between them and many renderings make it look like there is at least 300.

I'm sure there were be some slight design and height modifications to the other towers though. Nothing huge but still.

Yeah, Tower 4 and the Carnegie 57 are basically the same height on the NY diagram. It will be topped out before towers 2 and 3, so it will get a little while to shine.

[NYguy]

^And some new stuff:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3227/w001.jpg

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1785/w002.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1896/w003.jpg


I can't get enough of these.

[sterlippo1]

^^^ i know it, neither can i......... they are just fantastic:tup:

[Zapatan]

Well, just done popped another boner


:shrug:

[yankeesfan1000]

Damnit Zapatan, I'm sitting in class, read that and couldn't control myself. But anyways those renders are incredible, and some good progress on this one. If it is true the foundation and base will take around 3 years, it's hard to imagine a tenant won't be found by then.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Damnit Zapatan, I'm sitting in class, read that and couldn't control myself. But anyways those renders are incredible, and some good progress on this one. If it is true the foundation and base will take around 3 years, it's hard to imagine a tenant won't be found by then.

Well, in those econmic times. I think it's sad that they want to restore the lost space and those guys who have been tenants in the twin towers don't come back to the WTC-site again.

[STR]

^To be fair, those people DID almost die there, on top of that, many of those firms signed 10 or 20 year leases to replace the lost real estate downtown, and therefore wouldn't be looking to move for another year to another decade, as many didn't sign permanent leases until 2002 or 2003.

[NYguy]

^To be fair, those people DID almost die there, on top of that, many of those firms signed 10 or 20 year leases to replace the lost real estate downtown, and therefore wouldn't be looking to move for another year to another decade, as many didn't sign permanent leases until 2002 or 2003.

As far as I can recall, the only confirmed tenant returning to the site is the Port Authority itself, and even they didn't really want to, settling for tower 4. In the end though, getting all of these towers built, at least up to street level goes a long way in helping to secure tenants. The messy part is being knocked out of the way, unlike the 15 Penn Plaza tower, which can only begin after the Hotel Pennsylvania is taken down, and Manhattan West, which will follow the platform construction over the Penn Station rails. Not to mention the 2 years' construction time being cut off of the towers by starting now.

[Zapatan]

Damnit Zapatan, I'm sitting in class, read that and couldn't control myself. But anyways those renders are incredible, and some good progress on this one. If it is true the foundation and base will take around 3 years, it's hard to imagine a tenant won't be found by then.


haha that's what I'm here for..

BTW, does anyone know what the highest floor/ occupied floor is in this tower, sometimes it's hard to gather from renderings, but I was just curious.

[winlinmac001]

Maybe STR should market his incredible renders (they are stunning and attractive) to potential tenants. Hey, you never know. ;)

[STR]

BTW, does anyone know what the highest floor/ occupied floor is in this tower, sometimes it's hard to gather from renderings, but I was just curious.

Seems to be the one right under the little flat area in the middle of the roof where the 4 notches meet, which puts it at an elevation of 1103 feet, assuming the building is 1250' add 8 feet if they did indeed bump it up to 1258.

Some views from the top floor of Tower 2:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5843/w012.jpg

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2734/w011.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/736/w013.jpg

[Zapatan]

Seems to be the one right under the little flat area in the middle of the roof where the 4 notches meet, which puts it at an elevation of 1103 feet, assuming the building is 1250' add 8 feet if they did indeed bump it up to 1258.

Higher than that I would think, you mean 1278 not 1258, according to this diagram the 75th floor, the top office floor would be 1130 something, the top mechanical floor being 1200 something although it was hard to measure exactly

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66462504/large.jpg



I had to scale it down but it measures 472 pixels to the top, 442 to the roof, 427 to the top floor and 388 to the top occupied floor.

If anyone could do the math with 472 being 1358 and 442 being about 1278 you could figure out the other two, although its not super important

[Zapatan]

ok i roughly figured it out,

tower 2's top occupied office floor is about 1132' while the top floor is about 1235' according to that diagram

[NYguy]

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/736/w013.jpg

I remember how excited we were to see this one finally going up. But it will be lost in the background of it's taller brothers. Yet, its status as the first office tower built downtown after 9/11 gives it a special status. Imagine the day if and when Silverstein tops out the other towers. Call it greed, or whatever you want, but if not for this man's determination, we could be seeing a very different story Downtown. Tower 2 could be the last to rise, but it will be his crowning achievement when it does.

[STR]

Higher than that I would think, you mean 1278 not 1258, according to this diagram the 75th floor, the top office floor would be 1130 something, the top mechanical floor being 1200 something although it was hard to measure exactly

No, I actually meant 1350/1358, the height to the pinnacle, but it was 2AM, so I think I'm entitled to be off a digit.

1103 is the correct figure for my estimate, the cutaway diagram you're using is old, from the 2006 version of the building. All of the towers went through a minor redesign in 2007 as part of refining the designs. Tower 2, specifically, went through some facade changes and a slight rearrangement of its floors. Though, some of the info does conflict, so the top occupied floor could be one level higher.

I remember how excited we were to see this one finally going up. But it will be lost in the background of it's taller brothers.

No kidding. That shot is basically the equivalent of standing in the far corner of the building with the camera pressed against the window, craning to get a shot.

[Zapatan]

^oh I didn't know the tower had been redesigned since 2006, so you have an updated diagram?

Anyway this is a great building but it's kind of sad if it ends at 1100 feet, we need something to rival the twin towers in height. Let's hope they tweak it more.

[STR]

This building, because the top floors have such tiny floorplates, has at lot of mechanical floors. There's about 130 feet of mechanical space above the top office floor. It's just the nature of having a sliced off top like that. Having said that, we're going to have 3 towers here with office space up to around 1,100 feet (or more), versus two that had space up to about 1,250. Fair trade in my books.

If you disagree, I offer an alternative counterargument: 100 feet doesn't mean all that much in the 21st century, as evidenced by my other (taller) project I'm working on at the moment.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2915/w015.th.jpg (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/w015.jpg/)

[CoolCzech]

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6137/t213.jpg



Funny how the once-controversial "broken shard" concept worked its way into the final new WTC design in a truly huge way without hardly anyone even recognizing it.

[NYguy]

This building, because the top floors have such tiny floorplates, has at lot of mechanical floors. There's about 130 feet of mechanical space above the top office floor. It's just the nature of having a sliced off top like that. Having said that, we're going to have 3 towers here with office space up to around 1,100 feet (or more), versus two that had space up to about 1,250. Fair trade in my books.

An even better trade when you consider that there will be basically four 1,000 ft or more towers on site. And each tower will have a fully distinctive design, part of a family, but not mirror images of each other. Each will be iconic in its own right - you could move either tower elsewhere in the city, and it would still hold up. Unfortunately, you couldn't do that with the originals. So, I'm greatful for the design of each, even tower 2's sloped crown, which tries to steal the show from it's brothers.

[STR]

^I aside from the roof, there isn't really anywhere on tower 4 you can stand where you're above 900 feet, so...calling it 1,000 feet in this context is a stretch. But as I vividly pointed out earlier, it's all splitting hairs and I'm being a hypocritical jerk right now. My apologies.

On a note related to our above discussion, while Tower 7 will be reduced in status, there's one building that's going to absolutely disappear: Barclay Vessey. No views from the building, no way to look at it unless your standing next to it. Even with the Vessey St podium wall, one could argue Yamasaki was kinder to it.

[BStyles]

Goldman Sachs on one side, 7 World Trade on the other, One World Trade in Front, and BNY Mellon behind it...they're really torturing this building now.

[Zerton]

Funny how the once-controversial "broken shard" concept worked its way into the final new WTC design in a truly huge way without hardly anyone even recognizing it.

I believe I've seen an interview with Foster saying that he was quite fond of Libeskind's 'spiral of obliquely cut roofs' (he worded this better) idea.

[Troubadour]

I'm personally of the opinion that all the WTC buildings should be 20-30% bigger in every dimension, but this one especially - 2 WTC is the stylistic successor to the original Towers. Tent-pole skyscrapers should drive subsequent upward growth in the skyline, not complete it.

[CHAPINM1]

Well as time goes on, maybe there may be that possibility of extra floors, especially in Tower 3 if they land a major tenant. I know I may be stirring up a hornets nest but still, it may happen... I try to look at it like that the old towers 3 and 4 had heights nowhere NEAR what the new ones will, hehehe...

[NYguy]

^I aside from the roof, there isn't really anywhere on tower 4 you can stand where you're above 900 feet, so...calling it 1,000 feet in this context is a stretch.

I don't think it's a stretch at all. Most of us probaby won't get to the top of tower 3, but that doesn't mean it's not more than a thousand foot in the sky. There isn't that great of a difference between 975 ft and 1,000 ft, so it's virtually 1,000 ft when seen on the skyline.

[Zapatan]

Well as time goes on, maybe there may be that possibility of extra floors, especially in Tower 3 if they land a major tenant. I know I may be stirring up a hornets nest but still, it may happen... I try to look at it like that the old towers 3 and 4 had heights nowhere NEAR what the new ones will, hehehe...


That's true, the new plan is much better than what we thought we would be getting 5 years ago.

[rider15]

How much time they need to get on street level ?

[XxBassHunterxX]

How much time they need to get on street level ?

About a year and a half. They should be done by the end of 2011.
:sly:

[BStyles]

Early 2013, not 2011.

[XxBassHunterxX]

Early 2013, not 2011.

Yea My bad :D

[Obey]

Well as time goes on, maybe there may be that possibility of extra floors, especially in Tower 3 if they land a major tenant. I know I may be stirring up a hornets nest but still, it may happen... I try to look at it like that the old towers 3 and 4 had heights nowhere NEAR what the new ones will, hehehe...

That will never happen! I wish people would always stop bringing up possibilities of extra height of buildings that are under construction or even proposed. When a building is proposed it is usually the tallest possible height that can it possibly can be considering budget and zoning and other things. Because it can only be downgraded from that not upgraded.

[NYguy]

Look closely here, and you can see foundation work continuing...

ajagendorf25 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajagendorf25/5192891454/sizes/o/in/photostream/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5192891454_fc70a2ed57_o.jpg

[fimiak]

That is an amazing picture. I think that sort of picture will be amazing to look at in 30 years from now, when we all feel nostalgia for WTC construction.

[STR]

Updated the diagram. Better glass, and the angle shows off the fins and how they'll change the look of the building. You can also see 7WTC as a reflection.

[Zapatan]

That will never happen! I wish people would always stop bringing up possibilities of extra height of buildings that are under construction or even proposed. When a building is proposed it is usually the tallest possible height that can it possibly can be considering budget and zoning and other things. Because it can only be downgraded from that not upgraded.


That's not really true, I'm not saying the WTC towers will be built any taller but there might be some design changes, the height could change slightly, like Merril lynch was planning on moving into tower 3 which would have made it 1250 feet for their building plan, it's not likely but something like that could happen again

[STR]

^It's getting kinda late for that though. The drawings for this building were finalized in 2008, just after ML pulled out. If someone else came along, they'd have to stop EVERYTHING they're doing right now until new plans were finalized. It would delay the building for probably another year, and it already won't meet the street for 13 months.

[NYguy]

If someone else came along, they'd have to stop EVERYTHING they're doing right now until new plans were finalized. It would delay the building for probably another year, and it already won't meet the street for 13 months.

And Silverstein already did that once, another lenghty delay with no results.

Silverstein's spokesman has said that they're not going to start from scratch. So even if tower 2 construction is delayed, they're not going to change the design. The towers will be basically what they are planned as now.

[Zapatan]

I would unfortunately have to agree,

Kinda sad there won't really be any buildings much higher than 1100 feet on this site (since I would say the top occupied floors are where a building truly tops out.

It should look real cool when its done though

[STR]

I'd actually say the best chance for a design change is if the building doesn't find any tenants before they reach grade and they actually stop work as planned. Only once they've already taken machinery off the site, would they consider a retrofit for a larger building.

I find the stoppage unlikely, especially in the case of 3WTC, which has until roughly summer 2011 (when they're about ready to finish the podium) to lease only 400,000 of the building's 2.1M sqft of office space to get PA financing to finish up. 2WTC...that's a maybe. They're officially going to build this one to grade, which is due in December 2011, before they make any decision to proceed or not with the building at all. 2WTC will be entirely privately financed, and thus will need to find tenants for 50-60% of its 2.8M gsqft of space. I think it will happen, it's high quality space, a landmark building, and there just aren't going to be ANY other 3Msqft buildings put up in the city. That's a damn big building and NYC laws just don't let that many pop up.

[NYguy]

I'd actually say the best chance for a design change is if the building doesn't find any tenants before they reach grade and they actually stop work as planned. Only once they've already taken machinery off the site, would they consider a retrofit for a larger building.


They won't build anything taller. It's too close as it is in height to the Freedom Tower, not accounting the spire.


Kinda sad there won't really be any buildings much higher than 1100 feet on this site (since I would say the top occupied floors are where a building truly tops out.

What is sad is no one cares about your definition of where a building truly tops out. It tops out where it does, end of story. No need for you to keep reposting the same thing.

[Zapatan]

They won't build anything taller. It's too close as it is in height to the Freedom Tower, not accounting the spire.

But to them the top of the spire IS the top of 1WTC so even if 2WTC were 1500 feet tall (not saying its going to be) there would still be the spiral element.

The whole spiral idea is horrible, hopefully they forget about it, and 5WTC can be taller than most of them.


What is sad is no one cares about your definition of where a building truly tops out. It tops out where it does, end of story. No need for you to keep reposting the same thing

What tops out? A place where no one has access to? if the top occupiable floors are 1100 or so feet, that's about how high these buildings are, I really like all of these buildings for the record, but they are not the twin towers.

[STR]

They won't build anything taller. It's too close as it is in height to the Freedom Tower, not accounting the spire.

Uh-huh, right. If Silverstein ends up in the unlikely position of a potential tenant needing more space, I really don't see him saying no. Nor do I see the PA doing anything either, as they've already washed their hands of Greenwich St and have no interest or stomach in another protracted public war with Silverstein, especially over something that will actually fill the WTC up.

So...highly, highly, highly unlikely, but don't act like there's actual rules here. They were all fully willing to jack 3WTC up to equal the height to 2WTC for Merrill Lynch.