[NYguy]

At least the "chasm" breaks up what would be one massive wall along the side of the building. The chasm also makes it so you would want to look up towards the top.

I like that Tower 2 itself resembles a "family" of skyscrapers.

[oldpainless]

The perfectionist in me has a hard time dealing with the asymmetry of the "parallelograms" at the top. I wish the edges were perfectly parallel with each other. It bothers me for some reason. But yet, I probably wouldn't look at it and try to figure it out for so long, and that may be one of the reasons for doing this since its not as easy to "figure out".

[aluminum]

^They are not "parallelograms". "Parellelopiped" is the correct term because we live in a 3-Dimensional world.

[NYguy]

The perfectionist in me has a hard time dealing with the asymmetry of the "parallelograms" at the top. I wish the edges were perfectly parallel with each other. It bothers me for some reason.

The shape/floorplan of the building has a lot to do with that.

[gramsjdg]

This design is a nice compliment to the Freedom tower, however, the freedom tower's roof is actually lower than the structural "roof tip" on 2WTC. If both of these buildings were identical, that might be okay, but in this case it detracts too much from the Freedom Tower (spire notwithstanding) and I belive the roof on the Freedom Tower should be raised to perhaps 1475' or 1500' to make the two work better together, and maintain the continuity of Liebeskinds original plans for the relative heights of WTC 1,2,3 and 4.

[Dac150]

however, the freedom tower's roof is actually lower than the structural "roof tip" on 2WTC.

That is incorrect.

[aluminum]

^^
"NYC: Freedom Tower/1 WTC - 1,776' spire, 1368' structural, 1335' roof #2"

He's probably comparing the triangular top of WTC2 to roof # 2 of FT. I think 1335' is the real roof, 1368' is the height of glass parapet.

[CoolCzech]

This design is a nice compliment to the Freedom tower, however, the freedom tower's roof is actually lower than the structural "roof tip" on 2WTC. If both of these buildings were identical, that might be okay, but in this case it detracts too much from the Freedom Tower (spire notwithstanding) and I belive the roof on the Freedom Tower should be raised to perhaps 1475' or 1500' to make the two work better together, and maintain the continuity of Liebeskinds original plans for the relative heights of WTC 1,2,3 and 4.


Well, a height increase may, perhaps possibly could be, in the offing (though I really doubt it) because Silverstein made some noises, apparantly, about increasing the height of 3 WTC because of the current boom in office demand.

But as far as aesthetics are concerned, remember that in many renderings 2 WTC looks significantly lower than the FT, because from the angle pictured (looking across the Hudson), it further back than the FT.

Not I see a problem with having a 2 WTC that looks like a good replacement for one of the Twins, heightwise, or anything...

[Patrick]

I cant wait to see this one finished, the ONLY problem I have is why arent all the diamonds aligned properly? Some renders show them aligned, other show them at varying angles.

[NYguy]

^^
"NYC: Freedom Tower/1 WTC - 1,776' spire, 1368' structural, 1335' roof #2"

He's probably comparing the triangular top of WTC2 to roof # 2 of FT. I think 1335' is the real roof, 1368' is the height of glass parapet.

The roof is marked as 1,362'. The Parapet marks the 1,368 ft mark.

[NYguy]

I cant wait to see this one finished, the ONLY problem I have is why arent all the diamonds aligned properly? Some renders show them aligned, other show them at varying angles.

Post 204.

[NYguy]

Schedule from wtc.com:

Foundation Construction...................... July - December 2008
Construction Drawings......................... April 1, 2008
Superstructure to Ground Level............. January - July 2009
Structural Steel Erection...................... July 2009 - March 2011
Structural Concrete Tower Core & Slab........... October 2009 - June 2011
Core and Shell Work .............................March 2010 - December 2012
Curtain Wall......................................... April 2010 - March 2012

[NYguy]

pathrestoration.com

http://www.pathrestoration.com/drp/images/gallery/wtcth/2007/09/HMdemo02.jpg


http://www.pathrestoration.com/drp/images/gallery/wtcth/2007/09/HMdemo04.jpg

Overall site:

http://www.pathrestoration.com/drp/images/WTCSiteOverlay12.jpg

[NYguy]

http://renewnyc.com/content/pdfs/VSSRFinalMitigationPlan.pdf

As planning for the timing of the extraction and installation of the resource has progressed, The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (“Port Authority”) has identified a potential temporary storage location on the World Trade Center site (“WTC Site”). Accordingly, the Final Mitigation Plan states that the run of stairs and “connector plate” at the top of the stairs will be stored on or in the immediate vicinity of the WTC Site during the construction period if such storage is feasible. In addition, the Final Mitigation Plan now indicates that portions of the “connector plate” will be installed on the Memorial Plaza in an area dedicated to survivors in proximity to the “Surviving Tree,” if such installation is feasible. Other revisions also clarify the roles of the Port Authority and Museum in carrying out the mitigation plan.

LMDC shall facilitate and ensure that Port Authority and Museum will cooperate and engage appropriate consultants to: (1) extract intact and move the entire run of stairs and the “connector plate” at the top of the stairs; (2) store these elements on or in the immediate vicinity of the WTC Site until such time as they can be installed in their permanent locations, if such storage is feasible, and if such storage of any of these elements is not feasible, store those elements at Hangar 17; (3) return and install intact the run of stairs and a portion of the “connector plate” in the Museum in a central location between the grand staircase and escalator system leading down to bedrock, in a manner that ensures that visitors will be able to view the staircase as they descend down the grand staircase or escalator; (4) provide for meaningful incorporation of the story and significance of the staircase, and, if feasible, including part of the “connector plate,” within the “primary narrative” of the Museum; (5) return a portion of the “connector plate” to the at-grade Memorial Plaza along with interpretive signage in an area dedicated to survivors in proximity to the “Surviving Tree,” if feasible; and (6) maintain archival black and white photographic documentation of the staircase and additional photographic and video documentation of the staircase.

LMDC believes that this Final Mitigation Plan will allow for permanent display of the character-defining elements of the Vesey Street Stair Remnant in a setting that will acknowledge and convey the importance of the resource. The Plan ensures that the remnant will form an integral part of the entire Memorial and Museum experience.

LMDC also believes, based on its extensive review and its consultation with the Consulting Parties, that this Final Mitigation Plan constitutes reasonable and practicable steps to minimize or mitigate adverse effects to the degree consistent with the World Trade Center Memorial and Redevelopment Plan, sound engineering practice and relevant construction considerations, and is in keeping with the letter and spirit of the Programmatic Agreement.

Dated: October 31, 2007

[NYguy]

NOVEMBER 25, 2007

May it rest in peace...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508716/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508723/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508727/large.jpg

[Dac150]

The DB Building is really a sad looking site. Everytime I'm down there I always see tourists looking at it with a blank stare, not knowing the story behind it.

What's good though is that the 'W' Hotel site is directly behind it, so at some point it'll look like as one is coming down, another is rising.

[NYguy]

The DB Building is really a sad looking site. Everytime I'm down there I always see tourists looking at it with a blank stare, not knowing the story behind it.


This one is just as bad:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508768/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508746/medium.jpg

[Austin55]

I ll be glad to see those go:yuck: :(

How tall is the atrium area?

[Daquan13]

This one is just as bad:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508768/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/89508746/medium.jpg



Haha!!:haha:

What an ugly eyesore THAT building is?!!!!!!

Worst yet, those two structures have sat there for over six years and the process to get them down has been going so painfully friggen slow!!:hell:

[NYguy]

I'm surprised nobody has cried out to keep Fitterman Hall as is, as part of a 9/11 memorial. I'm sure some of the "stair" crowd would follow it.

[Ghost]

Maybe there's still some dust that could be covered for the memorial. Of course constuction work would have to be stopped for about 2 years or so...
Hope not :)

[Daquan13]

NYguy, you're funny. Haha!! Who would want that ugly thing?!

Honestly, for someone to balk up against this monstrocity being torn down,
they must have very bad taste in architecture!

Oh. Maybe Libeskind might want to try to do something with it. He might be able to turn it into one of his shards of glass, as was originally planned for Ground Zero!

I wonder, now that deconstruction on THIS building will be hampered by delays resulting from fires and dangerous work or careless workers:haha:

[CoolCzech]

December 06, 2007

WPCS Selected for World Trade Center Wireless Network Project

By Anil Sharma
TMCnet Contributing Editor


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WPCS International Incorporated, a design-build engineering services provider for specialty communication systems and wireless infrastructure, has been selected for World Trade center project.



WPCS serves the specialty communication systems and wireless infrastructure sectors and provides services that include site design, technology integration, electrical contracting, construction and project management for corporations, government entities and educational institutions worldwide.

The company, through its Heinz Corporation subsidiary, has been selected by Silverstein Properties as a wireless consultant in the design of an advanced wireless communications system for World Trade Center buildings 2, 3 and 4. The deal includes a needs analysis with technical performance specifications for a wireless in-building radio system that will insure the reliable communication for all emergency agencies including the Port Authority, FDNY and the NYPD.

Manhattan-based Silverstein Properties is a real estate development and investment firm that has developed, owned and managed more than twenty million square feet of office, residential and retail space. Silverstein Properties in July 2001 had completed one of the largest real estate transactions in New York history by acquiring the 10 million square foot World Trade Center, only to see it destroyed by terrorist attacks six weeks later on September 11, 2001.

Committed to the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site, the real estate company in May 2006, opened 7 World Trade Center, a 52 story 1.7 million square foot office tower at 250 Greenwich Street, just north of the World Trade Center site. The building is now approximately 75 percent leased.

Meanwhile, in September 2006, designs were unveiled for three new office towers on the World Trade Center site, which includes 200, 175 and 150 Greenwich Street and construction on the three towers is slated to begin when the Port Authority delivers the sites to Silverstein Properties in January 2008.

Larry Silverstein, president and CEO of Silverstein Properties, commented in a statement: "Beginning with 7 World Trade Center, we have set a new standard in technology and security for our buildings. This includes a commitment to the most advanced communication systems throughout our properties."

Richard Fann, president of WPCS/Heinz, added, "Our company completed a similar project for Silverstein Properties at 7 World Trade Center a few years ago and we are pleased to be selected again for this new project as we are aware of the high quality standards imposed by Silverstein Properties. We are looking forward to establishing the parameters for a best in class wireless communications system for such an important project."

http://www.tmcnet.com/

[NYguy]

Meanwhile, in September 2006, designs were unveiled for three new office towers on the World Trade Center site, which includes 200, 175 and 150 Greenwich Street and construction on the three towers is slated to begin when the Port Authority delivers the sites to Silverstein Properties in January 2008.

I don't think he's scheduled to get the site of 200 until sometime around June. But there'll be plenty of madness before then.

[Daquan13]

The Freedom Tower thread was again moved. Does anyone know where it is now?

[pattali]

For Daquan13,

Freedom Tower thread went in the new Supertall forum.

I find some difficulty to read SCP forum ...

[NYguy]

The Freedom Tower thread was again moved. Does anyone know where it is now?

It's 10 p.m. Do you know where your Freedom Tower thread is? LOL

But really, the rules of SSP are sometimes hard to fathom. And I've been posting here for years. But the new format is very similar to SSC.

[Daquan13]

Kind of figured that. They're both powered by V-Bulliten.

But thanx for the info.

[CoolCzech]

The Freedom Tower thread was again moved. Does anyone know where it is now?

To a supertall construction thread, and it's pissing me off: will the moderators PLEASE find a life, and do something else with their spare time besides constantly scrambling the skyscraperpage.com site map like an egg omelette?

Can whoever is responsible for destroying the ENTIRE point of this City Compilation (you know, to have all the buildings of the city in ONE place) be brave enough to explain to us what the point of removing the SINGLE MOST FAMOUS BUILDING IN SAID CITY to another place in the forum is??

Thank You. That is All.

P.S. How about having the FT thread shown here AND under the Supertall thread, Sparky?

[NYguy]

Can whoever is responsible for destroying the ENTIRE point of this City Compilation (you know, to have all the buildings of the city in ONE place) be brave enough to explain to us what the point of removing the SINGLE MOST FAMOUS BUILDING IN SAID CITY removed to another place in the forum??

Thank You. That is All.

P.S. How about having the FT thread shown here AND under the Supertall thread, Sparky?

That would be best, if possible. The new New York forum just started moving along nicely.

[CoolCzech]

Well, MIIAIIRIIK just put the kabosh on that that idea...

Thing is, isn't the entire point of a city compilation to be able to find the buildings in ONE place?

[Dac150]

Can you provide some reasoning at least behind your move MARK. This is one of the more ridiculous moves made on this forum.

Keep the NYC buildings together.

[CoolCzech]

I absolutely concur. So Mark assures us that as soon as any supertall begins construction, it will go "poof!" from the New York forum and wind up mixed in with a gazillion other towers, from Chicago to Abu Dhabi to Hong Kong... Well, great going, guys!

Don't you think people come to the New York compilation chiefly to find out about the most famous towers? That those towers are likely to be the "Supertall" ones? I mean, seriously: just how much traffic do you expect 14 story tall condos on Roosevelt Island to attract???

Just for a change, how about taking some constructive criticism: the NYC compilation turned out to be a pretty good idea, so please don't fix what wasn't broken - or rather, please unbreak what wasn't broken - and put the FT back here, and drop plans to bit by bit remove all the interesting buildings and plop them back into the incomprehensible mishmash that is that new "Supertall" forum.

[NYguy]

Just for a change, how about taking some constructive criticism: the NYC compilation turned out to be a pretty good idea, so please don't fix what wasn't broken - or rather, please unbreak what wasn't broken - and put the FT back here, and drop plans to bit by bit remove all the interesting buildings and plop them back into the incomprehensible mishmash that is that new "Supertall" forum.

Forget about it. The great OZ has spoken. The forum should just go back to the way it was before the NY/Dubai division, because eventually, someone is just going to want to hack up the supertall forum. And really, this forum has always been more of a skyscraper forum, not a city specific one (although there are regional subforums). Therefore, following the supertall example, all skyscraper proposal/construction threads should be grouped according to size. For example:

-supertall construction -supertall proposals -900 footers/construction - 800 footers/construction - 700 footers/construction - and everything else. Everything would fall into place (and order).

[CoolCzech]

WHATEVER they decide: once they do it, can they at least stop changing it every couple of months like a bunch of kids rebuilding their sand castle on a beach somewhere? Jeesh...

[CoolCzech]

Great new renderings of 2's lobby and exterior at:

http://www.wtcrising.com/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=cmpNews&show=images&section=Renderings&assetGroupID=195&s=wtcrising

[NYguy]

^ Those particular renderings came out in the latest round of WTC renderings.

[Hoodrat]

[QUOTE=CoolCzech;3226342]

Don't you think people come to the New York compilation chiefly to find out about the most famous towers? That those towers are likely to be the "Supertall" ones? I mean, seriously: just how much traffic do you expect 14 story tall condos on Roosevelt Island to attract???

QUOTE]


'nuff said...

[CoolCzech]

Well, I think it's true: the supertalls are the most exciting buildings going up in New York, and to this poster, anyway, it seems odd to pull them out of a New York compilation.

[NYguy]

Well, I think it's true: the supertalls are the most exciting buildings going up in New York, and to this poster, anyway, it seems odd to pull them out of a New York compilation.

Its too bad, really. The most high profile towers under construction will be yanked out of the NY forum, but the high profile proposals will remain at least. The best solution would be to have threads in both sections, as with the Freedom Tower (in both the WTC and supertall forums). People could post in either one.

[NYguy]

Site of tower 2, with Freedom and Goldman rising in the background. Excavation should be completed in June.

by ksten (http://flickr.com/photos/ksten/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2132/2170770672_ec94f7919d_b.jpg

[marcipan]

I like this tower. Its very good looking :-)

[NYguy]

wrong thread...

[chex]

nice pic thanx...

[samoen313]

How is the dark-to-light glass being handled? Will the tinting of the glass change little by little at every floor or are they going to have some kind of screening over the windows that can be painted lighter and lighter as the floors progress upward. The renderings all look more like the former, but I can't really think of an instance where glass tinting is handled in such a matter. Does anyone know/did i miss something in one of the articles?

[NYguy]

Two of the last renderings:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146704/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85401223/original.jpg

[CoolCzech]

Those renderings of the FT and 2WTC make it clear they will indeed BE the Twins, reborn. PLUS, they'll have 2 magnificent monster-sized sisters.

Good place to post this WSJ.com article:

At Ground Zero, Optimism Returns
Westfield Again Envisions
A Valuable Retail Site
By KRIS HUDSON
January 16, 2008; Page B1

In 2003, the pitched battles over the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site finally got to be too much for Westfield Group. The Australian company that had owned the retail space in the complex sold out for what it had invested and walked away from the financial, political and emotional quagmire.


But now Westfield is back, a sign that many of the worst fights are over; retail in the area is booming and signs of progress are finally beginning to emerge from the gaping hole that has scarred downtown Manhattan since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

This month, Westfield and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which controls the site, agreed to a $1.45 billion partnership to develop and operate about 500,000 square feet of shops and restaurants at the site. The Sydney-based company says now that the squabbling parties have finally coalesced around a plan, it once again believes that it can develop some of the most valuable retail space in the world.

"We're back in there because we actually believe it's going ahead and that the buildings will be built, the space will get leased and people will come back down there to work," said Peter Lowy, Westfield's chief executive officer.

Milestones include the 2006 ground-breaking for a memorial that will occupy the former footprints of the Twin Towers. Steel for the first office building on the site, dubbed the Freedom Tower, is scheduled to rise above street level during the first half of this year. Fights have been resolved over such things as how much insurance companies will pay for damage from the attacks and the role to be played by Silverstein Properties Inc., owned by developer Larry Silverstein, who bought the long-term lease of the office buildings on the site six weeks before planes piloted by terrorists felled the towers. The Port Authority and Mr. Silverstein's latest plans call for construction of the buildings to conclude in 2011 and 2012.


Westfield envisions a mix of luxury retailers to serve commuters and downtown residents.
Even so, the project has become infamous for its delays. All told, the reconstruction entails erecting five office towers, the memorial, a museum, a performing arts center and a transit hub on 16 acres in the middle of one of the busiest cities in the world. "You're dealing with the most complex construction project in the world," said Michael Francois, the Port Authority's director of development. The unforeseen obstacles that contractors encountered under the site include the remnants of an old railroad station and harder-than-expected rock formations.

Indeed, the Port Authority announced in December that the memorial complex won't be done until the 10th anniversary of the attack, two years later than originally planned. Development of the office towers may well be slowed by tightening of the credit markets or a recession. Since Jan. 1, the Port Authority has been incurring daily penalties of $300,000 for failing to complete on time underground work at the sites of Mr. Silverstein's three buildings and turn them over to him. Some of those involved in the project are privately predicting that some of the many construction projects on site might not be completed until 2013 or 2014.

Meanwhile, Westfield is pushing ahead. Mr. Lowy envisions a mix of retailers at the site to serve luxury shoppers, commuters and downtown Manhattan's burgeoning base of full-time residents. Some of the project's design and function will be influenced by Westfield's experience with massive retail projects in London, Sydney and San Francisco. It will probably include a dining terrace such as that in Sydney's Westfield Bondi Junction, which features smaller versions of sit-down restaurants with open-air kitchens. It also might include a gourmet grocery store with much of its space dedicated to prepared foods, much like the Bristol Farms store in Westfield San Francisco Centre.


A large chunk of the retail space -- roughly 80,000 square feet -- will be located in the site's transit hub, which will connect 11 subway lines. Most of the project's street-level space will host high-end shops, the kind that have found a ready market downtown in recent years. Once tenants are signed and stores open, the project will attract some of the highest rents in the country, Mr. Lowy predicts.

But Westfield will cater to a downtown Manhattan much different than the one before the terrorist attacks. There will be 28,171 apartments and condominiums by the end of this year, more than double the number in 2000, according to the Alliance for Downtown New York. Eight hotels with 1,600 rooms are under construction and 10 more hotels are slated to begin construction soon.

Downtown retail space, which generated sales per square foot of $800 to $1,000 and asking rents of $200 per square foot before the attacks, now is more lucrative. These days, because of the residential influx, downtown retail space carries asking rents of $350 to $500 per square foot, says Faith Hope Consolo, chairman of retail leasing at Prudential Douglas Elliman in Manhattan. Luxury retailers that recently opened stores downtown include jeweler Tiffany & Co. and men's clothier Thomas Pink; those scouting for space include jeweler Cartier and handbag merchant Ghurka.

"Depending on the timing of when it comes online and the demand, people could bid 20% above the asking price for this space," Ms. Consolo said of the center's shops.

The optimism contrasts with the frustration that drove Westfield from the project in 2003. The company deemed early concepts for the rebuilt office towers lacking in the street-level space and pedestrian access that it needed to boost sales and attract tenants. Office lobbies, Westfield argued, should be on the second and third floors rather than hogging valuable street frontage. Additionally, the company balked at early plans to extend as many as four roads through the site, reasoning that vehicle traffic would impede pedestrians' access to shops.

Another issue: there was some public sentiment at the time that stores and restaurants shouldn't be built on the site where more than 2,700 lost their lives.

Yet Westfield kept a hand in the project. Part of its exit deal gave the company the right to negotiate with the Port Authority first once it finally decided on its retail plans. Westfield also has been advising the Port Authority on retail at no charge since it left, perhaps with an eye toward thwarting any rivals angling for the job.

The resulting design partly addresses Westfield's desires, but not fully. The company gets only minimal street frontage -- roughly 37,000 square feet -- but it also gains considerable space in the transportation hub.

"There's clarity. That was our primary reason for coming back," Mr. Lowy says.

Write to Kris Hudson at kris.hudson@wsj.com2

[CoolCzech]

The one thing that really disappoints me about the FT's spire is that the cabling turned out to be so puny and visually obscure. I had hoped it would be one of the defining features of the FT.

[Chi649]

The one thing that really disappoints me about the FT's spire is that the cabling turned out to be so puny and visually obscure. I had hoped it would be one of the defining features of the FT.I agree, they should have gone all out with the cabling and made it a distinctive architectural element. Either that or not show any at all because IMO, it gives a cheap kind of look, reminiscent of guy wires on a radio tower.

[NYguy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/nyregion/17stairway.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin

Extracting Survivors’ Stairway for a Home at the 9/11 Museum

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/16/nyregion/17stairway_600.jpg
The steps, known as the “survivors stairway,” are to be housed at the 9/11 museum, right, where visitors will see them while using a new stairway.


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/16/nyregion/17stairway02_650.jpg
Workers recently cut into concrete enclosing steps used by hundreds of Sept. 11 survivors at the trade center.


By DAVID W. DUNLAP
January 17, 2008


With the new World Trade Center rising clamorously around it, the last standing vestige of the old World Trade Center is about to be uprooted.

In the last week, workers have cut openings into a concrete superstructure supporting 38 steps that once led from Vesey Street up to the north end of the sprawling Austin J. Tobin Plaza. Because hundreds of evacuees made their way down this route on Sept. 11, 2001, it is called the “survivors’ stairway.”

Whether the stairway itself would survive was a question for the Pataki administration to ponder. It proposed to salvage individual steps but not the entire run of stairs, which stands where Tower 2 is to rise. Preservationists and survivors of the attack were dismayed by the plan.

So was the Spitzer administration. In August, Avi Schick, the chairman of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, proposed to extract the staircase whole from the surrounding concrete bulkhead, then reinstall it in the National Sept. 11 Memorial and Museum at ground zero.

Preparations are under way to do just that.

By late February, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, expects to build a steel framework beneath the five-foot-wide staircase.

That will permit workers to isolate the stairs from the rest of the remaining Vesey Street structure, which includes a fragment of terrazzo paving from the Tobin Plaza, a sloping surface where two escalators once ran and an entrance to the Cortlandt Street station on the No. 1 subway line, which has been closed since 2001.

Besides the staircase, workers will salvage part of the plaza pavement. A plywood barrier and several columns from the subway station will be taken to Hangar 17 at Kennedy International Airport, where large-scale 9/11 artifacts are kept.

The rest of the structure will be demolished.

“You have to do it with an extraordinary amount of care,” said Stephen Sigmund, chief of public and government affairs at the Port Authority.

Once the staircase is atop its steel cradle, it will be jacked up and rolled to Vesey Street. It will stand opposite the small park outside 7 World Trade Center until it is lowered by crane to the museum’s principal floor, almost at bedrock.

The steel framework will continue supporting the staircase in its permanent location. Though visitors will not be able to walk down the staircase remnant, they will pass it on a new staircase or escalator.

“That ceremony of descent will be alongside the survivors’ stairway,” said Alice Greenwald, director of the memorial museum.

The removal and reinstallation will cost about $1 million.

One of the first to suggest this approach in 2006 — as a way of breaking the impasse between preserving the survivors’ stairway and proceeding with Tower 2 — was Robert Silman, an engineer working as a consultant to preservation groups like the New York Landmarks Conservancy and the Municipal Art Society.

“I’m confident they’ll get it right,” Mr. Silman said on Wednesday. “I think they’re very serious about doing a good job. I’ll say that now, because in the beginning, they were skeptical about doing the job at all. I have no quarrel with what’s being done.”

Mr. Schick saw a practical side to the project. “It sends the message that we can honor the memory of that day, hear the voice of those who experienced 9/11 and reconcile that with development goals and the need to move forward,” he said.

Ms. Greenwald found a more spiritual side to housing the staircase in the museum, saying, “It reinforces a fundamental curatorial message: We all live in a post-9/11 world and, in that sense, every one of us is a 9/11 survivor.”

[Hoodrat]

Two of the last renderings:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146704/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85401223/original.jpg

I never get tired of looking at renders of this one...

...my personal fave project worldwide. Those cropped angle offset diamonds are the f.ing bomb. It's so dramatic and futuristic without appearing alien and wierd.

[NYguy]

I never get tired of looking at renders of this one...

...my personal fave project worldwide. Those cropped angle offset diamonds are the f.ing bomb. It's so dramatic and futuristic without appearing alien and wierd.

I think because the other towers are smaller than the Freedom Tower, people will be amazed at the scale once the towers are actually topped out. Even Tower 4 will be very close to 1,000 ft, essentially putting 4 thousand footers at the site, compared to the two we were used to seeing.

[CoolCzech]

Downtownexpress.com

Port hears the shouts over construction noise

By Julie Shapiro

Six hours of sleep might not sound like something to celebrate, but for people who live near the World Trade Center site, it’s nothing short of a miracle.

After a weekend of quieter construction, followed by several weeknights of loud construction stopping by 11 p.m. or midnight, residents were cautiously optimistic about the Port Authority’s new noise plan, though they criticized it for not going far enough.

In the plan, announced late last week, the Port promised to pay for thicker windows and quieter equipment, but would not commit to a moratorium on loud work between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m., as residents and elected officials requested.

“We’ve been listening to you for quite some time,” Glenn Guzi, a Port Authority program manager, told residents Monday at a Community Board 1 meeting. “We know it’s the right thing to do.”

Pat Moore, resident of 125 Cedar St. and one of the leaders in the fight against W.T.C. construction noise, thanked the Port Authority for the plan. “It’s been a long time coming,” Moore said. She asked Guzi to take a message back to the Port’s executive board: “If they lived in the area, it would have happened a lot sooner.”

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and City Councilmember Alan Gerson helped broker the agreement with the Port Authority.

Under the plan, the Port will pay for landlords within 100 feet of the site to soundproof windows that face the site, up to $1,200 a window; install smart backup alarms that are quieter at night; fit hoe rams, used to break up rock, with noise shields; limit loud construction noise after 11 p.m.; and work with the city Department of Environmental Protection to measure and reduce noise.

The Port will also increase the amount of construction that happens during the day, do blasting rather than jack hammering when possible and tell traffic cops not to blow whistles beneath residents’ windows. The new backup alarms will adjust the volume of the beeping to the level of background noise, so they will be loud during the day and quieter at night.

Gerson told C.B. 1 members Tuesday that the plan “reflects unprecedented responsiveness by the government, by Port Authority, to noise,” but he said more needed to be done.

He sent a letter to Anthony Shorris, executive director of the Port Authority, on Monday detailing his concerns. Gerson asked for soundproofing of windows in a larger area facing more directions, and he requested a timetable for when the changes will take place. Three buildings that face Liberty St. are eligible — 125 Cedar, 90 West and 114 Liberty Sts.

“The bottom line is residents must have quiet time from 11 [p.m.] to 7 a.m. and some time period on weekend days,” Gerson wrote. “It would be immoral and unseemly to rebuild ground zero at the expense of anyone’s health and well-being.”

Kurt Havens, a 90 West St. tenant, appreciated the recent quiet and looks forward to seeing the rest of the plan implemented. Blankets and towels drape the bedroom window of his 19th-floor apartment in an effort to keep out the noise, which he said was becoming unbearable.

“You can get any project done twice as fast if you sacrifice everyone’s well-being,” Havens said.

Quentin Brathwaite, assistant director of World Trade Center construction for the Port Authority, presented the plan at Board 1’s World Trade Center Redevelopment Committee Monday night.

Bill Love, a board member who lives in Gateway Plaza, said work ended before midnight recently but still disrupted his sleep when it started again around 5 a.m. He and his neighbors are not eligible for the window money.

“It’s very difficult to meet these deadlines, so we will continue to work long days,” Brathwaite replied. There will be another “rough period” at the end of January or in February, during which the Port will start at 5 a.m. every day and work two 10-hour shifts, he said.

As board members and residents responded indignantly, Guzi, of Port Authority, cut in. Guzi corrected Brathwaite, saying the goal is to stop noisy work around 8 or 9 p.m.

“There will be some times that unfortunately it is not possible to stop at 11, which is why we’re soundproofing the windows,” Guzi said, adding that the worst noise will come in mid-February.

Until then, the Port will offset the earlier stop times in the evening by continuing to start work around 5 a.m. “It’s one or the other,” Guzi said. “They have to meet the schedule.” Port Authority is paying developer Silverstein Properties $300,000 a day after the Port missed the year-end deadline to turn the sites for Towers 3 and 4 over to Silverstein.

“What’s sacrosanct about Port Authority’s economic interests?” resident Mark Scherzer asked. He suggested restricting the work hours and spreading the subsequent costs over the many users of Port Authority’s airports and bridges. “How is that a burden [to the public] compared to the way [the long hours] burden the community?” he asked. The audience burst into applause.

Peter Levenson, owner of 90 West St., sought to put the $300,000 penalty in perspective. He imagined totaling the daily rents of the thousands of Downtown residents who are subject to construction noise, and said the Port’s $300,000 might not seem like such a big number. “We are all quite inconvenienced,” Levenson said. The rent residents pay “is not something being respected.”

A 176 Broadway resident said noise from multiple projects is keeping her children up night after night. Her apartment isn’t within 100 feet of ground zero, so she won’t receive money for installing windows. The noise comes not just from the Port Authority, but also from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Con Edison and several cable companies.

“It’s always someone and it’s always something,” she said. “We need a coordinated Downtown effort to address this noise.”

The residents aren’t the only ones affected by the noise. Visitors who check into the Millennium Hotel across from the World Trade Center site on Church St. are issued a pair of earplugs, but they’re still unable to sleep.

“We’ve lost quite a bit of business,” said Stuart Yule, director of security. He asked Guzi, “How are you going to compensate us?”

Guzi replied that the window soundproofing is not for commercial buildings, but that the Port Authority would meet with Millennium to discuss options.

Jan Larsen, the hotel’s general manager, said after the meeting that he has already pleaded with the Port Authority to reduce their work hours, without results. Many of the hotel’s customers are in town for business and expect a good night’s rest. When they don’t get it, they check out early.

“We’re in the business of selling sleeping rooms,” Larsen said. “We don’t get a lot of compassion from our customers.”

David Stanke, who lives at 114 Liberty St., joined with his neighbors after 9/11 to pay for soundproof windows in the building, an expense that he now sees as well worth it.

“You can never pay too much to protect yourself from government,” Stanke said, drawing laughs from the audience.

The Port estimates that the soundproof windows will cost $500,000 to $600,000, Guzi said.

In terms of the penalties the Port is paying to Silverstein, someone in the audience called out, “That’s just two days.”

The Port Authority also updated the World Trade Center Committee on construction progress at the site. The Port has completed excavation of the Tower 4 site, which is at the corner of Liberty and Church Sts. Now, Port Authority is coordinating the turnover of the site to Silverstein, who will build a tower designed by Fumihiko Maki there.

Tower 3 site, to the north and a little farther from the residential buildings, will take another month to complete, and then Silverstein will build a Richard Rogers-designed building there.n has promised not to do construction late at night or early in the morning. The full fines will continue until the site is ready for Silverstein.

The deadline for the Tower 2 site to be ready for construction is June 30, 2008.

The Port Authority also announced earlier this month that the Westfield Group would return to the World Trade Center to run the retail space. There is no word yet on specific stores, but the Port said Westfield is looking at a different mix than the original World Trade Center shops, since the new space features street-level retail.

[NYguy]

After a weekend of quieter construction, followed by several weeknights of loud construction stopping by 11 p.m. or midnight, residents were cautiously optimistic about the Port Authority’s new noise plan, though they criticized it for not going far enough.

How about no construction at all? Is that far enough for you folks!? Let's just leave ground zero the way it is, a natural memorial. Who cares if its an open hole that sucks the life out of the area?

[NYguy]

Site of Tower 2 from wtcrising.com

http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/Tower%202%20Site%20Jan%202008_big.jpg

[NYguy]

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_248/shapingtheworld.html

Shaping the World Trade Center’s pieces

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_248/shaping.gif

Workers secure the Survivors’ Stairway. The steps portion of the remnant will be incorporated into the W.T.C. memorial museum.


By Julie Shapiro
Feb. 1 - 7 , 2008

When tourists and curious residents peer into the World Trade Center site from street level, they see a big dirt pit, studded with machinery, a jumble of puzzle pieces that don’t quite form a complete picture.

But below ground, in the midst of the roaring equipment and piles of rock, the future of the site is beginning to take shape. It is getting easier to see which cradles of bedrock will hold which future skyscrapers. The outlines of roads and underpasses are becoming clearer, dividing the mass of construction into segments familiar from bird’s-eye renderings.

And while the site sometimes appears quiet from street level, far more movement is visible belowground. The sectors crawl with activity, as hundreds of construction workers drive heavy machinery or sweep debris, working on the half-dozen major projects that will bring four skyscrapers, a train station, a memorial and a performing arts center to the site within several years.

“Today, those who live or work around the site — and tourists from around the world who visit it each day — can see that construction is progressing aggressively and the site is bustling with activity,” Anthony Shorris, executive director of Port Authority, said in a statement. “Cranes are constantly in motion, steel is going up and trucks are lined up each day moving concrete and materials on and off the site.”

The Port’s $16 billion investment will ultimately bring the equivalent of five Empire State buildings to the site, Shorris said.

“We expect our efforts will pay off in the next few years when the site once again becomes a center for economic activity and a hub for Downtown life,” he said.

Steve Coleman, a Port Authority spokesperson, took a Downtown Express reporter and photographer around the site on a recent morning, pointing out the progress.

New PATH entrance
The newest — and the final — temporary entrance to the PATH station is rapidly taking shape and is on schedule to open in several weeks. The Port Authority has to close the current temporary entrance on Church St. to complete the excavation for the final Santiago Calatrava-designed station.

The PATH entrance will move to Vesey St., where a tall bank of eight escalators is taking shape to convey commuters from the underground terminal to street level. During the visit, the escalator steps were in place for the most part, but the handrails were missing and the open sides gave views of the belts and internal machinery.

To the side of the escalators, construction workers were pouring concrete slabs that would connect the new entrance to the current PATH station. When the Calatrava station opens in 2011 under the current schedule, this temporary entrance, like the two that came before it, will be demolished. The final station will have entrances on Greenwich and Church Sts.

Survivors’ Stairway In the midst of bright, noisy machinery and striding workers in neon vests stands a remnant of the past: the Survivors’ Stairway, which served as an escape route to Vesey St. on 9/11. The staircase, of crumbling white stone, is embedded in a large block that once housed an adjacent escalator.

All around and beneath the staircase, workers are building steel supports to prepare the stairs to be moved. The staircase will then sit on the site near Vesey St. temporarily, until it is lowered into the memorial museum, where it will be on display. The bottom two-thirds of the steps are missing chunks and look battered and ancient — as if the construction workers uncovered them in an archeological dig — while the top steps look eerily new and polished. The stairs survived 9/11, but were damaged during the recovery and cleanup operation in the months that followed.

The support work to preserve the stairs and move them to temporary storage, done by contractor J.H. Reid, will cost the Port about $1 million, Coleman said.

Tower sites
The Tower 4 site, at the corner of Church and Liberty Sts., is one of the calmest sectors, as the space holds its breath between excavation and construction. Port Authority has finished digging out the site — the rock floor is 80 feet below street level — and on a recent morning, several men in cherry pickers were inspecting the tiebacks in the slurry wall, which protects the site from floods. The Port will soon turn the site over to Silverstein Properties, which will build the tower.

Just to the north, a frenzy of work continued at the Tower 3 site, where enormous jackhammers called hoe rams pounded into bedrock. The penetrating thuds have been a source of complaints from nearby residents when Port Authority’s work went around the clock, but since a new noise plan went into effect, several residents said the noisiest work has stopped by midnight.

Much of the Tower 3 site is excavated to the required 80 feet, though the northern chunk still has more to go. As the hoe rams recently blasted the bedrock into manageable chunks, backhoes swooped in to convey the boulders into trucks, which carted the rock off the site.

The Port has paid a $300,000-a-day penalty to Silverstein since Jan. 1, when it was supposed to turn over the sites for Towers 3 and 4. The Tower 3 is expected to take at least a few more weeks to be ready for construction.

Tower 2, in the northeast corner of the site, looked the way the other tower sites looked several months ago. Backhoes scooped dirt out, waiting to hit bedrock. The deadline for the Tower 2 site to be turned over to Silverstein is June 30.

Freedom Tower
Steel beams mark the boundaries and progress of the Freedom Tower in the northwest corner of the site. A lone white beam, inscribed “Freedom Tower,” which was ceremoniously lowered into the pit several years ago, is still visible — but only partly. As the building grows, concrete is filling in around the beam and now eclipses about half of the vertical inscription.

Most of the work at the Freedom Tower is happening in the center of the building, the concrete core that will house the elevators. Port Authority is building the core up first, and then the steel will follow, bringing the work above street level by the end of the year. At 1,776 feet, the Freedom Tower will dwarf surrounding buildings and stand tallest in the world.

Atmosphere
Construction workers throughout the site looked busy, though a few took time to joke with a Downtown Express reporter. They were also concerned that the reporter and photographer were not wearing the mandated safety goggles. Signs throughout the site reminded workers to prioritize safety, and with trucks flying along gravel paths and a level of noise that sometimes made speaking difficult, the concern seemed prudent. One sign warned workers to make eye contact with the foreman before proceeding.

Nearly all the evidence of 9/11 has been carted away. In fact, the 16-acre site, but for its scope and sprawl, could almost be a construction site anywhere. However, relics of the past pop up in surprising ways. A memorial plaque sat on the ground outside a trailer that hosts relatives of the attack victims. And on a construction worker’s hardhat, above his set mouth and dark eyes, was a white sticker: “I didn’t forgive. I don’t forget.”

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_248/20LC.gif

Port Authority contractors work on the escalators for the third and last temporary entrance to the World Trade Center PATH stop. The entrance is expected to open in a few weeks and the permanent train station is scheduled to open in 2001.

[Dac150]

2001? I think they mean 2011 for the permanent station to open.

[NYguy]

2001? I think they mean 2011 for the permanent station to open.

NO, no, no, they're going to build it, then transform in back through time. That way, we wouldn't have had so many delays in the rebuilding...:)

[Dac150]

NO, no, no, they're going to build it, then transform in back through time. That way, we wouldn't have had so many delays in the rebuilding...:)

Makes sense to me..;)

[Lecom]

Six hours of sleep might not sound like something to celebrate
Heh, someone's never been in architecture school.

[Ghost]

Parts of _it_ has been removed!

http://i28.tinypic.com/jg4i01.jpg

[NYguy]

Parts of _it_ has been removed!

I can't believe that thing is gonna sit in the 7 WTC plaza. But anything to get it out of the way.

By late February, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, expects to build a steel framework beneath the five-foot-wide staircase.

That will permit workers to isolate the stairs from the rest of the remaining Vesey Street structure....Besides the staircase, workers will salvage part of the plaza pavement. A plywood barrier and several columns from the subway station will be taken to Hangar 17 at Kennedy International Airport, where large-scale 9/11 artifacts are kept. The rest of the structure will be demolished.

Once the staircase is atop its steel cradle, it will be jacked up and rolled to Vesey Street. It will stand opposite the small park outside 7 World Trade Center until it is lowered by crane to the museum’s principal floor, almost at bedrock.

[Dac150]

At this point what needs to be done needs to be done in order to get the show rolling. I can't say it's the most ideal location, but 2 WTC needs to get moving.

[CoolCzech]

Sort of off topic, but don't see anywhere else to post this:

THE NEXT PA FIASCO
BY STEVE CUOZZO


January 30, 2008 -- UNTIL a few weeks ago, the Port Authority was enter taining a pitch by architect Santiago Calatrava to add something new to the over-budget, behind-schedule "World Trade Center Transportation Hub" at Ground Zero.
Calatrava wanted to install a 110-foot-long skylight on the underground station's ceiling - a skylight that would pop up out of the earth in the 9/11 Memorial's northeast quadrant, wiping out landscaping long planned for the site.

Prodded by City Hall, the PA finally dropped the previously unreported idea after months of never quite saying yes or no. But its dithering raises the question: How many billions and how many years will it take to put a fancy roof over the heads of a relative handful of New Jersey commuters?

Here's another, given the MTA's Fulton Street Transit Center fiasco: How soon will the Port Authority's vastly more expensive "Hub" (reallyjust a new PATH terminal) meet its own moment of truth?

It's time for Gov. Eliot Pataki . . . oops, Spitzer . . . to quit presiding serenely and read the riot act to the PA - an agency he theoretically controls in Ground Zero matters. Otherwise, we may be in for a surprise like the one the MTA glumly gave us this week.

Despite PA propaganda to the contrary, the Hub project seems ever more unmoored. My sources say Calatrava is still proposing costly additions and alterations, even as the PA is fighting to cut costs.

The MTA this week admitted that it's given up building a "Grand Central of Downtown" at the Fulton site. The $900 million it's blowing on the boondoggle will pay for underground "improvements," but not the vaulted, glass-domed structure that was the scheme's public face for four years. Instead of a transit palace, we're stuck for the foreseeable future with a rat-infested empty lot.

Yet that's chump change compared to the PA project. First budgeted at $2.2 billion in 2004, its cost estimates now run at least $3.2 billion if it's built per Calatrava's vision.

Like Fulton, the PATH project is years behind schedule. Like the MTA, the PA is em- ploying "value engineering" - i.e., using cheaper materials and processes than first planned.

The marriage of a strong-willed "starchitect" and the plodding PA bureaucracy was unlikely to yield swift progress. But the new mess could push completion well beyond 2011, the PA's latest fallback target. Lower Manhattan Development Corp. chief Avi Schick has even floated 2013.

Calatrava is truly a great architect. But New Yorkers enchanted with the terminal's exterior design may be surprised to learn what's under its soaring roof: nothing. The vast, column-free, football-field-sized entry hall will merely be a void to walk through en route to the escalators (with a few stores around the perimeter.)

Planners have tied themselves in knots trying to build this so-called oculus - which features a retractable roof to let in sunlight - without bankrupting the PA.

Plus, the PA has grappled with Calatrava over "brainstorms" like the skylight, which would complicate both the terminal and memorial projects, as well as intrude on the work of memorial architects Michael Arad and Peter Walker.

The PA finally dropped the skylight for good only at the insistence of City Hall and Planning Commissioner Amanda Burden. But what's baffling is why the PA didn't just say no to Calatrava in the first place.

The PA claims to have everything under control. Yet nobody really knows when the project will be done, how much it will cost or what it'll look like. The original, bird-in-flight design has already morphed into what's been dubbed a "hulking stegosaurus." What next?

A few weeks ago, a PA commissioner, Bruce Blakeman, told trade paper Real Estate Weekly that major design changes (including ditching the retractable roof) were "being considered." (The PA later claimed Blakeman "misspoke.")

When the PATH design was first shown in 2004, it seemed a bold, visionary stroke. Yes, it was strictly optional - a utilitarian, underground PATH station would do fine for the 50,000 Jerseyans who'd ride it daily (vs. the 300,000 folks who get Downtown via subway). But $2.2 billion to pay for the Calatrava scheme was there, thanks to the feds and insurance money owed the PA.

And it was hard to argue with a vaulted grand pavilion with 150-foot high "wings" evoking a bird released into the air. But numerous Calatrava projects elsewhere have gone over-budget. And now the PA faces fast-inflating construction costs - a rate that goes up with each year the station is still waiting to come out of the ground.

Whatever the project's faults, no one wants to see it go the way of the Fulton Street Transit Center. Spitzer needs to step in now - and see to it that the PA knows exactly what it's going to build (and has the money to finish the job) before work actually starts.

Or Downtown might end up with not one but two empty lots for rats to roam, where transit riders were meant to soar.

*********************************

The thing might be completed by 2013??? Good God, why don't they just ditch the damned thing and partner with Westfield to help pay for a nice, modern station that uses all that empty space for retail space??

[NYguy]

Sort of off topic, but don't see anywhere else to post this:

Post it here, the Calatrava PATH terminal (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=125295).

[aliendroid]

I think the renderings with FT are misleading. WTC2 building will look like a 1350 foot building to the roof and it will look about as tall as FT from the ground. From some angles it will look taller than FT due to it being more thin.

FT should be 1550' to the roof in order to make it as significant is it should look.

[gramsjdg]

I totally agree. Freedom Tower is much too close in height to 2 WTC, this is evidenced by the fact that the structural top of 2 WTC is higher than the (actual) roof of FT (1350 vs 1335). As far as I am concerned, the microwave dish apparratus that has become the "crown" on FT is not the "structural top" -only if they make it into an observation deck. Very dissapointing.

[NYguy]

I totally agree. Freedom Tower is much too close
in height to 2 WTC, this is evidenced by the fact that the structural top of 2
WTC is higher than the (actual) roof of FT (1350 vs 1335). As far as I am
concerned, the microwave dish apparratus that has become the "crown" on
FT is not the "structural top" -only if they make it into an observation deck.
Very dissapointing.

That doesn't make any sense. Why would you compare the "roof" of the
Freedom Tower to the "structural top" of Tower 2? Is there some deck up there
in Two we don't know about? The impact of both should be obvious from this rendering.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85401223/large.jpg

[gramsjdg]

I just mean that the structural top of 2 WTC actually looks like it is part of the building whereas the revised "crown" structure on FT looks like an add-on/afterthought. There is no continuity with the rest of the building.

[NYguy]

I just mean that the structural top of 2 WTC actually looks like it is part of the building whereas the revised "crown" structure on FT looks like an add-on/afterthought. There is no continuity with the rest of the building.

Still don't get it:

this is evidenced by the fact that the structural top of 2
WTC is higher than the (actual) roof of FT (1350 vs 1335).

The top of the Freedom Tower facade is at 1,368 ft - higher that the highest point on Tower 2. You may not know it now, but the "crown" on the Freedom Tower will be much more integrated with the building. You'll get an understanding when a final rendering of the spire is released.

[aliendroid]

Still don't get it:



The top of the Freedom Tower facade is at 1,368 ft - higher that the highest point on Tower 2. You may not know it now, but the "crown" on the Freedom Tower will be much more integrated with the building. You'll get an understanding when a final rendering of the spire is released.

All we are saying is that FT and 2WTC will look like they are about the same height for a tourist.
I like how in chicago you can see the roof of a taller building behind the roof of a pretty tall building due to the height difference. You will never have this effect with FT and 2WTC no matter how far away from them you go because they are about the same height.

The structural highest point on 2WTC is not like a spire, it actually adds to how high the building looks. 2WTC will not look like a 1250 foot tall building, it'll look 100 feet taller. FT will not look like a 1776 foot tall building, it will look like a 1368 foot tall building.

If they build the WTC complex exactly as planned I think it will be fantastic and world class. Probably better than anything that will be built in the world for decades because I think design > height. But if the FT were 1550' tall the step down effect from one building to the next would be awesome.

They should also go ahead and add 3 meters to 4WTC to make it an official supertall.


Right now Houston has more supertalls than NYC. Spires don't count so ESB is the only real supertall in NYC, while houston has 2 300m+ buildings to the real roof. I'd like to see 4 real supertalls buildt at the WTC in NY, a city of that size should have 20 supertalls by now.

[Dac150]

Right now Houston has more supertalls than NYC. Spires don't count so ESB is the only real supertall in NYC, while houston has 2 300m+ buildings to the real roof. I'd like to see 4 real supertalls buildt at the WTC in NY, a city of that size should have 20 supertalls by now.

I have to just read this and shake my head back and forth. No doubt that the person who wrote this is of young age, so I'll verbaly cut him a break, but regardless, this is just an utterly ridiculous post.

Aliendroid, take the time to scan through the entire New York sub-forum and embrace all the text. You'll learn quickly how and why what you posted is of such ridiculous thought.

[NYguy]

I have to just read this and shake my head back and forth. No doubt that the person who wrote this is of young age, so I'll verbaly cut him a break

Yeah, I was about to comment, but I'll use your tactic. Probably just somebody fooling around anyway. No one can be that dense. Just too many ridiculous comments.

[NYguy]

Meanwhile, just a sampling of the towers that have been revealed so far...


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93285912/large.jpg

Larger pic (http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93285912/original)

[StarScraperCity]

Meanwhile, just a sampling of the towers that have been revealed so far...


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93285912/large.jpg

Larger pic (http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93285912/original)

They said there would never be another skyscraper in New York after 9/11. They were full of crap. :)

[philvia]

Right now Houston has more supertalls than NYC. Spires don't count so ESB is the only real supertall in NYC, while houston has 2 300m+ buildings to the real roof. I'd like to see 4 real supertalls buildt at the WTC in NY, a city of that size should have 20 supertalls by now.

you mean ones like this 305m 1,002ft building?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/335100667_9a76df5f3c_o.jpg

[NYguy]

They said there would never be another skyscraper in New York after 9/11. They were full of crap. :)

And its not just New York. The skyscraper wave is almost everywhere now, new tallest either being built or proposed in a lot of places. I can't remember a time when it was ever like this.

[aluminum]

All we are saying is that FT and 2WTC will look like they are about the same height for a tourist.
I like how in chicago you can see the roof of a taller building behind the roof of a pretty tall building due to the height difference. You will never have this effect with FT and 2WTC no matter how far away from them you go because they are about the same height.

The structural highest point on 2WTC is not like a spire, it actually adds to how high the building looks. 2WTC will not look like a 1250 foot tall building, it'll look 100 feet taller. FT will not look like a 1776 foot tall building, it will look like a 1368 foot tall building.

If they build the WTC complex exactly as planned I think it will be fantastic and world class. Probably better than anything that will be built in the world for decades because I think design > height. But if the FT were 1550' tall the step down effect from one building to the next would be awesome.

They should also go ahead and add 3 meters to 4WTC to make it an official supertall.


Right now Houston has more supertalls than NYC. Spires don't count so ESB is the only real supertall in NYC, while houston has 2 300m+ buildings to the real roof. I'd like to see 4 real supertalls buildt at the WTC in NY, a city of that size should have 20 supertalls by now.

I totally agree with everything you said in the above post. I even agree with fact that Houston has more supertalls than New York right now. :yes:
Don't mind the New Yorkers, they have a right to love their city.

[aliendroid]

I have to just read this and shake my head back and forth. No doubt that the person who wrote this is of young age, so I'll verbaly cut him a break, but regardless, this is just an utterly ridiculous post.

Aliendroid, take the time to scan through the entire New York sub-forum and embrace all the text. You'll learn quickly how and why what you posted is of such ridiculous thought.

There's no point to fighting about this. We both probably would like to see 20 supertalls be built in NYC over the next 10 years.

[Jobohimself]

May I remind the participants of the pissing contest that a supertall is over 1,000 feet high?

I can count the amount of supertalls in Houston on one finger.

[Scruffy]

i have just the right finger chosen too.

[NYguy]

I totally agree with everything you said in the above post. I even agree with fact that Houston has more supertalls than New York right now. :yes:
Don't mind the New Yorkers, they have a right to love their city.

Please. Houston and New York don't even belong in the same sentence. But I don't blame Houston. Its the Chicago trolls trying to cause trouble here. They don't call it the windy city for nothing I suppose. Stay in your midwestern town, please.

[NYguy]

Back to the topic at hand:

200 Greenwich in all its glory...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85401628/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/90034618/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146704/original.jpg

[nygirl1]

^ Definetly my favorite of all four.

[aliendroid]

May I remind the participants of the pissing contest that a supertall is over 1,000 feet high?

I can count the amount of supertalls in Houston on one finger.

No, a supertall is 300 meters tall or taller to the roof (not spire).

Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_Bank_Plaza

302 meters at 993 feet. It is a real supertall with no spire adding to the height.

Someone already posted info on the other supertall in Houston.

[JDRCRASH]

Please. Houston and New York don't even belong in the same sentence. But I don't blame Houston. Its the Chicago trolls trying to cause trouble here. They don't call it the windy city for nothing I suppose. Stay in your midwestern town, please.

Maybe that's why he got banned.:jester:

[Dac150]

There's no point to fighting about this. We both probably would like to see 20 supertalls be built in NYC over the next 10 years.

I really don't know what to make out of this, being that it makes no sense in any regard to what I stated in my previous post. I mean, why would I not want there to be 20 supertalls in Manhattan in the next decade? Where to you even get that time frame, or amount? It gave me a laugh, I'll give you that, but please, just no more.

Back on topic

[NYguy]

It gave me a laugh, I'll give you that, but please, just no more.

Back on topic

It really is laughable. There's so much skyscraper goodness going on in New York right now, I almost feel sorry for some of those people with their comments. Almost.

[aluminum]

How about this opinion:
New York City is the best damn city in the universe, It couldn't become any better in any way. No other town is better than New York in anything, not in present, nor in future. New WTC is best complex of skyscrapers in all the existing dimensions. Nothing can be done to improve it because it hits the ultimate level of greatness. Theres abso-fuckin-lutely nothing wrong with New York City, or with the new WTC complex.

[NYguy]

How about this opinion:
New York City is the best damn city in the universe, It couldn't become any better in any way. No other town is better than New York in anything, not in present, nor in future. New WTC is best complex of skyscrapers in all the existing dimensions.

True. Glad to see you've finally come around.

Nothing can be done to improve it because it hits the ultimate level of greatness. Theres abso-fuckin-lutely nothing wrong with New York City, or with the new WTC complex.

But there's always room for improvement. Otherwise, why build anything?

[aluminum]

Maybe that's why he got banned.:jester:

Who got banned ?

[NYguy]

Just over 4 months to go before excavation must be complete...

moonestblue (http://flickr.com/photos/23853082@N07/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/2271374696_44ac79e123_b.jpg

[JDRCRASH]

Who got banned ?

:rolleyes:

[JDRCRASH]

True. Glad to see you've finally come around.



But there's always room for improvement. Otherwise, why build anything?

For pride and respect?:D
There are a few things that they don't have though: A good freeway system. Or the advantage of having a nice desert full of fascinating plants and animals.

But that's okay! I'm no troll like the one earlier.


Anyways, cities who show off like Dubai will never approach New York City becasue they're ignorant enough to create replicas of it's landmarks instead of sticking to originality.:slob:

[vaporvr6]

But there's always room for improvement. Otherwise, why build anything?

new york does smell pretty bad. we can work on that. there are also terrible potholes, and compared to many cities, the subway is archaic. Still the greatest city in the world :)

[JDRCRASH]

new york does smell pretty bad. we can work on that. there are also terrible potholes, and compared to many cities, the subway is archaic. Still the greatest city in the world :)

Then your lucky you don't live in a city where millions upon millions use cars every day; it gives me a headache smelling the gas.:yuck:

[Dac150]

How about this opinion:
New York City is the best damn city in the universe, It couldn't become any better in any way. No other town is better than New York in anything, not in present, nor in future. New WTC is best complex of skyscrapers in all the existing dimensions. Nothing can be done to improve it because it hits the ultimate level of greatness. Theres abso-fuckin-lutely nothing wrong with New York City, or with the new WTC complex.

Smart man, now your getting it.;)

[NYguy]

compared to many cities, the subway is archaic. Still the greatest city in the world :)

Archaic?. I don't think so. New Yorkers complain about the subway a lot, but there aren't many that beat it. And its still the best way to get around town. The system is so large that its always in a constant state of refurbishment. As for the smell? That's overstated as well. I don't see people walking the streets holding their noses. More times than not, what you smell are the hot dogs and pretzels from the vendors, the occasional incense, etc.

[JDRCRASH]

I'm sure there must be hotspots for graffiti down there in the subways.

[NYguy]

I'm sure there must be hotspots for graffiti down there in the subways.

This isn't 1985...;)