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STR
Dec 3, 2010, 10:26 AM
Just a reminder how big this building is: It would dominate downtown if it wasn't for the even larger towers next door.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6470/n020g.jpg

Obey
Dec 3, 2010, 11:46 AM
Woah, now I kind of wish that was the case.

sterlippo1
Dec 3, 2010, 11:59 AM
Woah, now I kind of wish that was the case.

um, i don't think you REALLY wish that ;)

Obey
Dec 3, 2010, 10:46 PM
um, i don't think you REALLY wish that ;)

Yeah I dont.

Jamesmpk
Dec 4, 2010, 7:56 AM
I passed this site in the summer when a friend came to NY to visit. I was wondering what was going on there.

BostonBuild
Dec 6, 2010, 8:16 PM
It looks like a scaffolding system that rises with the cranes similar to what is at 1WTC is being installed at 4WTC. I wonder if there is also a shipping container restaurant going in place there as well?

From the webcam over at rgz:
http://www.malistebde.com/webcam/rgz_000.jpg?refresh=60&altText=Groud+Zero+Webcam+-+Rebuild+Ground+Zero+.org&camImgY=768&camImgX=960&imageurl=http://www.malistebde.com/webcam/rgz_000.jpg

patriotizzy
Dec 6, 2010, 9:28 PM
STR, 4WTC would be giant and would be considered amazing if it weren't for the other WTC towers. Even if the tower were to be by itself, it would be grand.

NYguy
Dec 7, 2010, 3:03 PM
Just a reminder how big this building is: It would dominate downtown if it wasn't for the even larger towers next door.


That's a great image. It kinda reminds me of that 900 ft tall NYSE tower that was well on its way to getting built - before it was immediately canceled after 9/11.


An image from wtc.com

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1026748-S1300x600.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1026748.jpg

NYguy
Dec 8, 2010, 3:06 AM
http://www.benzinga.com/press-releases/10/12/b676391/fitch-expects-to-assign-a-rating-to-4-world-trade-center-project-llc

Fitch Expects to Assign 'A+' Rating to 4 World Trade Center Project

12/07/10 at 1:00pm by Benzinga Staff

Fitch Ratings expects to assign an 'A+' rating to the approximately $1,308,165,000 New York Liberty Development Corporation series 2010 liberty revenue bonds, which will be used to refund a portion of the series 2009 multi-modal liberty revenue bonds.

The series 2009 multi-modal liberty revenue bonds were initially issued in December 2009 to fund construction costs for World Trade Center Towers 2, 3, and 4 before the scheduled expiration of the Liberty Bond designation at the end of calendar year 2009. The series 2009 refunded bonds originally financed a portion of the costs of developing and constructing World Trade Center Tower 4. The series 2010 Liberty Bonds are fixed-rate bonds and mature in 2050 with an optional 10-year call at par. The bonds will be interest only for the first 15 years, and principal amortization will commence in year 2026 through maturity.

The Rating Outlook is Stable.

RATING RATIONALE:

The expected 'A+' rating reflects the strong financial support offered to bondholders by the highly rated Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (Port Authority), whose consolidated bonds and notes (senior lien) are rated 'AA-' with a Stable Rating Outlook by Fitch, as well as the pledge of space lease payments from New York City, whose general obligation (GO) bonds are rated 'AA' with a Stable Outlook. The rating is also based on the World Trade Center project's nature as a highly visible and critical project with broad based political support.

Offsetting credit factors include bondholders' exposure to New York City's appropriation of its fixed rental payments. The City will treat the rental payment obligation as a space lease requirement rather than debt; however, this weakness is partially offset by the City's agreement to include rental payments in the Mayor's Executive Budget proposals. The expected 'A+' rating, two notches below the City's GO rating, is based on the weakest link in the project (the City's fixed rental payment obligation). In the structure, bondholders are not protected in the event of non-payment by the City of its obligations under the lease or in the case that the City declares bankruptcy. Notably, the events of bankruptcy and/or non-payment of the City of New York are the only scenarios in which the Port Authority is not contractually obligated to meet any shortfall in annual debt service on the bonds.

KEY RATING DRIVERS:

--Continued ability of the Port Authority to comfortably produce healthy financial margins and maintain adequate liquidity while executing its large capital plan.

--General credit quality of the City of New York, whose rental payment obligation is currently the weakest link in the bond security.

--Should the City of New York be withdrawn from the structure and the Port Authority's financial commitment remain unchanged, the project's rating would be driven by that of the Port Authority.

SECURITY:

Bonds are secured by Bond Support Payments (BSPs) made from the Port Authority in the amount of debt service less monthly fixed rent amounts payable by the City of New York under the City Space Lease, taking into account permitted offsets, credits and abatements, to the bond trustee.

CREDIT SUMMARY:

The Tower 4 (T4) facility and the site upon which it is to be constructed are owned by The Port Authority, a municipal corporate instrumentality and political subdivision of the States of New York and New Jersey. T4 is leased by the Port Authority to the Tower 4 Borrower, 4 WTC LLC, a Silverstein related-entity, under a lease having an approximate 99 year term which commenced in 2001. 4 WTC LLC, as landlord, has leased approximately 600,766 gross rentable square feet of T4 to the Port Authority as a tenant pursuant to the Amended and Restated Lease dated Nov. 16, 2006 for a term of 30 years. In addition, approximately 581,642 gross rentable square feet in T4 has been leased to the City pursuant to an Indenture of Lease dated March 7, 2008 (as amended, the City Space Lease). As of November 2010, construction on T4 is progressing on schedule, with the majority of trade and work mobilized on site and the procurement of all major contracts in place. The construction timetable calls for substantial completion of T4 in the third quarter of 2013 with occupancy expected shortly thereafter in the fourth quarter of 2013.

The framework for the project is laid out in two companion documents: the Bond Support Agreement (BSA) and the Tenant Support Agreement (TSA), with the BSA being the main operative document for the purposes of the bond security. The BSA will function similarly to an on-demand letter of credit, providing financial support to 4 WTC LLC in the form of BSPs equal to annual debt service and administrative costs less the City's fixed rent payment obligation payable to the bond trustee pursuant to the City Space Lease. Under the BSA, which is a direct agreement executed between the Port Authority and the bond trustee, the Port Authority is unconditionally responsible for BSPs without regard to construction delays, uncertainty as to the term of the City's occupancy and length terms, bankruptcy of 4WTC LLC, and other City abatement rights. Furthermore, the Port Authority will be notified no later than the fifth day prior to the Liberty Bond debt service payment date the amount of fixed rent received from the City of New York and the amount due by the bond trustee. Also of significance is the strong position BSPs retain in the Port Authority's flow of funds, as the payment is senior to the Port Authority's outstanding senior and subordinate liens.

The events of bankruptcy and/or non-payment by the City of New York are the only scenarios in which BSPs are not contractually obligated to meet any shortfall in annual debt service on the bonds. Fitch rates the City's GO debt 'AA', reflecting strong credit quality, and believes that the risk of non-payment by the City under the terms of the lease (taking into account permitted offsets, credits and abatements) is largely mitigated by the City's agreement to include rental payments in the Mayor's Executive Budget proposals. The City also agrees that if at any time the appropriation is no longer sufficient, the mayor shall seek an increase in the appropriation. The City intends to treat the lease as a space lease for legal and budgeting purposes and to include rental amounts in the budgets of whichever city agencies are housed at the WTC4 site. Obligations under the City Space Lease will not be considered analogous to City debt and will not be disclosed as such.

The TSA will also act like an on-demand letter of credit reimbursement agreement between 4 WTC LLC and the Port Authority but is not part of the collateral. The TSA provides the repayment terms required of 4 WTC LLC, rights and remedies of the Port Authority against 4WTC LLC, and the terms for funding certain construction overruns and operating deficits. Importantly, the TSA is not part of the security package, thus eliminating any sort of real estate risk exposure to bondholders.

NYguy
Dec 9, 2010, 4:23 AM
http://lowermanhattan.info/news/fuel_cells_arrive_at_54530.aspx

Fuel Cells Arrive at the World Trade Center

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1030307-S1300x600.jpg

December 1, 2010

Energy efficiency is a priority at the rebuilt World Trade Center, and a major piece of the green-building plan was installed on site starting in late October: fuel cells. Six fuel cells -- each nearly as large as a shipping container -- are now in place to supply about 30 percent of the power to 3 and 4 WTC.

The cells are considered more efficient than other power sources because they create electricity through chemical reactions rather than by burning substances. This results in primary byproducts of water and heat, thereby reducing carbon emissions. It also makes fuel cells more expensive and therefore less common in today’s skyscrapers.

However, both WTC developer Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority plan to use fuel cells to at least partly power all of the WTC towers -- part of their commitments to environmental safety, and allowing them to serve as large-scale examples of energy efficiency.

"If we can demonstrate that fuel cells work, that they can be highly effective, that they can achieve energy-saving goals, we hope that other owners of buildings and office buildings will choose to adopt them in the future," said Janno Lieber, Silverstein’s president of WTC development.

NYguy
Dec 10, 2010, 11:39 PM
DECEMBER 10, 2010

1.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032701-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


2.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032702-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


3.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032703-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


4.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032704-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


5.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032706-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


6.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032707-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


7.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032708-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032709-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


9.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1032710-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true

Bucktown718
Dec 11, 2010, 2:57 PM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5002/5251563528_abcbf5c140_b.jpg
ctjscout (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52727902@N07/)

NYguy
Dec 12, 2010, 12:39 PM
louisemarston (http://www.flickr.com/photos/louisemarston/5253516797/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5253516797_2e9acb8e07_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5049/5253516597_683d27182f_b.jpg

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Dec 13, 2010, 10:24 PM
i hate the way this tower just grows in spurts, theres no actual "pace of construction". hopefully it'll speed up soon...

NYguy
Dec 15, 2010, 3:11 PM
i hate the way this tower just grows in spurts, theres no actual "pace of construction". hopefully it'll speed up soon...

The last the scheduling was mentioned...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/realestate/commercial/flat_note_on_carnegie_a4v3jx086pAbsiTsX8aSoO

By STEVE CUOZZO
August 31, 2010

At last, Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority have a deal regarding the financing of Silverstein's 4 World Trade Center, the first of three towers he's to build at Ground Zero. Now what?

Expect to see the rise of a steel infrastructure that looks like an office building on a fast track before the end of the year.

Structural steel has risen to a mere four floors above ground and below-grade lobby and retail areas are complete.

Perimeter steel should rise to the seventh floor -- the first office floor -- by Oct. 30. Then, structural steel is to begin fast-track construction through topping out in spring 2012. The steel should rise at about one floor per week and should reach the 45th floor by Sept. 11, 2011.

The curtain wall devised by architect Fumihiko Maki will begin appearing in winter 2012, and the tower should open in fall 2013.

The PA and the city have pre-leased a combined 1.2 million feet of 4 WTC, but 800,000 feet remain available to commercial tenants.

Looks like they are really just now getting into it. But it's clear they are working every time I visit the site.



antlered (http://www.flickr.com/photos/antlered/5261214924/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5261214924_3c10273f34_b.jpg


in.formed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53024120@N04/5261299692/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5243/5261299692_b2fde993e7_b.jpg

slayerhk47
Dec 15, 2010, 6:14 PM
I think that this building has kind of a unique simplicity to it which makes it seem like it is growing at a very slow place. I always get surprised when I see some of these pics and remember how huge this building actually is.

NYguy
Dec 16, 2010, 4:15 AM
in.formed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53024120@N04/5264521149/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5264521149_0c9b9a1bf1_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5281/5264942328_9ba7e5d107_b.jpg

NYC2ATX
Dec 16, 2010, 6:19 AM
I like that in the last few photos, the new Greenwich Street corridor is actually becoming envisionable. Every time I check these threads something new and exciting seems to be showing itself :D

Infernal_Elf
Dec 16, 2010, 8:37 AM
That night picture above is some of the coolest lights i have seen on a building under construction. Very colorful

hopefully it will get on an constant construction pace also soon

NYguy
Dec 17, 2010, 4:11 PM
NOVEMBER 16, 2010

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1042677-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1042678-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1042679-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1042680-S1300x600.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true

BStyles
Dec 17, 2010, 8:37 PM
I believe they've slowed down because they're putting up the safety cocoon.

Patapsco
Dec 17, 2010, 11:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE5U3xg86F0

STR
Dec 18, 2010, 9:19 PM
SW corner of Liberty Plaza
I'm actually going to be tweaking 4WTC in the next week to better reflect the latest info on it. I'll be finishing up the core, the ground level (including the fancy retail lobby on Church St.), and modifying the glass as 4WTC is designed to be especially reflective to minimize the appearance of the floors.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4611/n61e.jpg

mudvayneimn
Dec 19, 2010, 4:46 AM
^STR I'm loving the hunt. Everyday I check these threads and then check your models thread, and every one I go to always has a render the other doesn't!

It'll be nice once this one starts taking off again. It's hard to believe that the shortest building of the 4 WTC towers is the height of our tallest building with our 3rd tallest stacked on top! These are monsters!

STR
Dec 19, 2010, 5:16 AM
^Yeah, I'm kinda playing around with y'all. I do end up putting everything in the model thread, but it might take up to a day or two since I like to do them in bunches.

NYCLuver
Dec 19, 2010, 6:54 AM
December 18th, 2010

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5273369648_7e204981f4_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5273389904_97a6cc73f7_b.jpg

Bucktown718
Dec 23, 2010, 9:42 PM
Update from GreenwichBoy @WNY

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11718&d=1293138613

Phil McAvity
Dec 23, 2010, 10:23 PM
I don't understand how so many people in this thread equate "bland" and "featureless" with "classy" and "elegant".

This is just another towering box with virtually no features or imagination.

STR
Dec 23, 2010, 10:46 PM
Minimalism does not mean no thought was put into it. Maki and team have actually gone to great lengths to try and make a 975 foot tall building disappear. To lump it in with a modernist cube built for economy would be like comparing Seagram or Inland Steel to 55 Water St.

The Architect's Newspaper
http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=4564&PagePosition=4


World Trade Center Tower 4,New York
Maki and Associates with R.A. Heintges & Associates

Designing the new towers now rising at the World Trade Center site was a daunting task. On the one hand, you have the relatively straightforward program of an office building with a retail component in the podium. On the other, the weight of a site that holds a powerful emotional charge in the national psyche. Fulfilling the former while honoring the latter creates a dichotomy of purpose prickly enough to befuddle the most sensitive of architectural talents. This is doubly true of Tower 4, which sits directly across Greenwich Street from the center’s memorial, Reflecting Absence. To respond to this conundrum, Maki and Associates set their sights on refining the building’s envelope to a point of ethereality, removing it from the appearance of any association with making and spending money. “We had a moral responsibility to the public to deliver a spiritual design,” said Gary Kamemoto, Maki’s director on the project. “We decided to use a very minimal vocabulary, to create something very abstract that would allow the tower to have a quiet presence of dignity and serenity.”

The architects did not stop at minimalism. “As we travel back and forth to New York, we are always struck by three towers on the skyline—the Empire State, the Chrysler, and Citicorp,” continued Kamemoto. “They have a sparkling metallic materiality that shines in the otherwise drab mass of buildings. They make us feel a certain optimism that we thought would be appropriate for the World Trade Center site.”

Maki began by creating a very simple, sculptural form for the 65-story, 550,000-square-foot building—in plan, a parallelogram chiseled away at the top to form a trapezoidal crown with two cutout corners running the entire height. To achieve a Brancusi-like abstraction on the surface of this volume, the architects, along with facade consultant R. A. Heintges and Associates and wall manufacturer Benson, designed an extremely reflective curtain wall module with no spandrel. Structurally glazed, the assembly of 5-foot-wide by 13-foot-6-inch-high unitized panels creates an abstract grid that completely hides the building’s floor plates and confuses any reading of scale.

Pulling this off involved a few unusual details. For one, the team worked with Dow Corning to develop a coating for the glass that would deliver the right metallic sheen. At 40 percent reflectivity—an anomaly in this day of super-transparent glass envelopes—the insulated glass units deliver impressive energy performance by casting off heat loading from the sun. Secondly, the lack of spandrel required the use of a touch mullion, which is a horizontal mullion that extends between the floor plate and the back of the glass. Though it plays no structural role, it does satisfy local fire code, which demands that both the top and bottom of a slab reach the exterior wall. Finally, Leslie E. Robertson Associates’ structural design puts only four massive columns at the perimeter, leaving the corners cantilevered and a jaw-dropping 80-foot clear span across the face of the building. While this was good for opening up a lot of free wall space, it also created significant differential movement that the skin had to be able to absorb. The team responded with a 1.75-inch horizontal joint in the curtain wall that can open to as much as three inches.

At the building’s podium, which houses the office lobby and retail space, Maki switched to a different skin. While unearthly abstraction worked for the tower, at the ground he wanted something more tactile and architectonic. There, transparent laminated glass modules are supported by a stick-built system of 3-inch-by-12-inch solid steel mullions. The system is robust enough to meet the World Trade Center’s stringent blast requirements, but its Miesian detailing keeps it elegant and provides a satisfying foundation for the luminous tower. “It’s a simple move,” explained Kamemoto. “You use a different modulation from the tower and it makes the base look special, makes it stand out.”

Tower 4 is the only building that's trying to deviate from 7WTC's glass. I've only begun to really experiment with something that recreates what they're talking about.
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/3717/n65j.jpg

Obey
Dec 24, 2010, 12:15 AM
I don't understand how so many people in this thread equate "bland" and "featureless" with "classy" and "elegant".

This is just another towering box with virtually no features or imagination.

The second NYGuy leaves it seems everyone is hatin' on NYC skyscrapers. I think we should reserve judgments for when it is finished.

Lecom
Dec 24, 2010, 12:51 AM
As long as it's all civil, there's nothing wrong with judging buildings at any stage IMO. Without critical reviews, this forum would be nothing but raw construction pics and replies like "yay good progress!"

STR
Dec 24, 2010, 1:03 AM
^...skyscrapercity...

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Dec 24, 2010, 1:16 AM
I don't understand how so many people in this thread equate "bland" and "featureless" with "classy" and "elegant".

This is just another towering box with virtually no features or imagination.
would you consider these "bland' and "featureless"?

http://www.weatherpattern.com/wp-content/uploads/lever_house_sm.jpg
http://www.weatherpattern.com/wp-content/uploads/lever_house_sm.jpg

http://www.archpaper.com/images/feature_03_05/pjohnson7.jpg
http://www.archpaper.com/images/feature_03_05/pjohnson7.jpg

http://sattlers.org/mickey/culture/memoriam/worldTradeCenter/images/wtc-before-penttbom.jpg
http://sattlers.org/mickey/culture/memoriam/worldTradeCenter/images/wtc-before-penttbom.jpg

STR
Dec 24, 2010, 1:24 AM
^The World Trade Center twin towers, much like WTC Tower 4 are indeed featureless, and are purposefully so. The whole point was for the facade details to fade away with distance, reducing the buildings to scaleless abstract art.

Lecom
Dec 24, 2010, 5:01 AM
God is in the details. A tower with a simple massing and look can either be beautiful or ugly depending on the materials and finishes. 7 WTC is a "plain box", yet I doubt that many would classify it as "ugly".

http://www.chi-athenaeum.org/archawards/2006/2006photos/7wtc.jpg
http://www.chi-athenaeum.org/archawards/2006/2006photos/7wtc.jpg

^The World Trade Center twin towers, much like WTC Tower 4 are indeed featureless, and are purposefully so. The whole point was for the facade details to fade away with distance, reducing the buildings to scaleless abstract art.

When it comes to design philosophy, 4WTC is the closest to the original Twin Towers - simple design by a Japanese architect that presents a simple, yet timeless shape, adorned with minimal yet tastefully done details.

^...skyscrapercity...

SSP is a free-for-all. Which is cool - there needs to be a forum for highrise developments with near-total freedom of speech, even if it means trolls, idiots, etc. The Internet is a big enough place for both SSP and SSC to mutually coexist.

HyperPower
Dec 24, 2010, 9:50 AM
http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/599_Lexington_Avenue.jpg/250px-599_Lexington_Avenue.jpg

Reminds me of 599 Lexington Avenue in Midtown. :burstbubble

DZH22
Dec 24, 2010, 6:42 PM
From Wednesday 12/22

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp322/DZH22/NYC/First/IMG_9783.jpg

Dac150
Dec 24, 2010, 8:31 PM
If you appreciated the simplicity and boldness of the former buildings, then you can appreciate the architectural significance of this building. If the other way around, then I can see why this building wouldn’t receive good reviews.

Sometimes a building doesn’t need flashy elements to be significant and elegant. That holds true for this building as it does for WTC 7.

STR
Dec 24, 2010, 10:05 PM
^The window frames on this building will be only 1.75 inches wide, that's half the usual gap, and less than half the 4" frame/tracks in Tower 1. Individual panes will become hard to see a block away, with the reflective coating on the outside this thing will be a giant mirror.

Phil McAvity
Dec 26, 2010, 10:12 PM
Minimalism does not mean no thought was put into it.

I never said there was no thought put into this building, there was just minimal thought put into it, hence the word minimalism.

Maki and team have actually gone to great lengths to try and make a 975 foot tall building disappear.

And that's a good thing? :shrug:

Lecom
Dec 27, 2010, 6:12 AM
Just cleaned this increasingly nasty conversation of a bunch of inflammatory posts coming from both sides. Enough insulting messages and name calling from both sides. The "blandness vs austerity" conversation was interesting until people forgot how to keep things civil. Maybe we will resurrect this discussion later when tempers cool down, but for now this conversation is over.

NYguy
Dec 27, 2010, 2:48 PM
^ Good.


From Wednesday 12/22

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp322/DZH22/NYC/First/IMG_9783.jpg


As we prepare for the new year, we prepare to watch this one fully take off as well. Doesn't seem that long ago that we were wondering if and when construction would begin on these towers, and now we're looking into the sky wondering how soon they'll be topped out and completed. Despite everything, a very good year, and things will only get better in the next...:tup:

NYguy
Dec 27, 2010, 10:22 PM
Benjamin Rosamond (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9451351@N03/5297748460/sizes/l/in/pool-18964236@N00/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5297748460_2c03cbebb5_b.jpg

Obey
Dec 27, 2010, 10:56 PM
The site looks beautiful with all the snow.

STR
Dec 27, 2010, 11:06 PM
It actually looks like the WTC is part of the city's normal fabric. Cortlandt looks like it keeps going almost to Greenwich, and that you could walk of Liberty, passed some random junk, and onto the memorial.

Lecom
Dec 28, 2010, 6:10 AM
Yep, the snow covers all the construction, making the site look more or less complete in some parts. I also love how close 4WTC, along with 1WTC, come to the existing built fabric. If youy look closely, 4WTC respects the streetwall even more so than One Liberty Plaza, which is slightly set back. The new WTC is truly integrated into the city, as opposed to the old site layout, and the new memorial plaza reads as an urban park as opposed to the old WTC plaza. To be fair, I loved the old layout as well, I've never seen an urban sight that could compare to the grandeur of standing in front of the Sphere and staring up at the monumental towers. However, this sort of a layout respects the existing city much more. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out once the whole thing is complete.

STR
Dec 28, 2010, 7:10 AM
^Didn't you work at SOM NY for a while? I knew Silverstein had hired Childs before 9/11 to plan a renovation of the street level, plaza and concourse. Ever see any plans of that? Supposedly connecting the WTC to the neighborhood and making better use of the plaza was the primary focus. There was going to be direct access to the concourse from the plaza, and the parking lot along Church street was to be turned into a park, stretching from 4 & 5 WTC all the way to the curb.

Allegedly this is one of the illustrations from that project...but you can't tell from that angle and I don't have anything bigger.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9436/wtc2sm.jpg

I know, kinda off topic, but I'm very interested in any plan that attempts to marry the connectedness of the new WTC with the monumentality of the original.

CoolCzech
Dec 29, 2010, 4:04 PM
To be fair, I loved the old layout as well, I've never seen an urban sight that could compare to the grandeur of standing in front of the Sphere and staring up at the monumental towers. However, this sort of a layout respects the existing city much more. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out once the whole thing is complete.

You're right about that, but - because it was in fact so separated from the urban fabric around it - it was usually a desolate place, save for the occasional concert or whatever. In that sense, it was not unlike the vast modernist plaza in front of Government Center in Boston, another grand urban wasteland. One senses the new park will never want for visitors, and not merely because people will continue to want to visit "Ground Zero." I wonder how much longer the term "Ground Zero" will continue in usage, anyway?

sterlippo1
Dec 31, 2010, 12:54 PM
You're right about that, but - because it was in fact so separated from the urban fabric around it - it was usually a desolate place, save for the occasional concert or whatever. In that sense, it was not unlike the vast modernist plaza in front of Government Center in Boston, another grand urban wasteland. One senses the new park will never want for visitors, and not merely because people will continue to want to visit "Ground Zero." I wonder how much longer the term "Ground Zero" will continue in usage, anyway?

hopefully not too much longer but sadly that term will take a long, long time to fade out of some people's minds if it ever happens at all. all we can do is not use it here and when it is used elsewhere in conversation try to tactfully tell people about what we all know about the new WTC:cheers: and that it is far from that aged term

caltrane74
Dec 31, 2010, 1:56 PM
Wow that's alot of snow, maybe more than they have in Winnipeg, Calgary or Edmonton. And that's coming from a Canadian.

Lecom
Dec 31, 2010, 6:38 PM
hopefully not too much longer but sadly that term will take a long, long time to fade out of some people's minds if it ever happens at all. all we can do is not use it here and when it is used elsewhere in conversation try to tactfully tell people about what we all know about the new WTC:cheers: and that it is far from that aged term

I think "Ground Zero" will stick as a colloquial name for the memorial park itself, while the "World Trade Center" will be more used to refer to the general area and the office component. Just a guess.

You're right about that, but - because it was in fact so separated from the urban fabric around it - it was usually a desolate place, save for the occasional concert or whatever. In that sense, it was not unlike the vast modernist plaza in front of Government Center in Boston, another grand urban wasteland. One senses the new park will never want for visitors, and not merely because people will continue to want to visit "Ground Zero." I wonder how much longer the term "Ground Zero" will continue in usage, anyway?

Despite its isolation, the old WTC plaza was usually quite a lively place. Sure, the anti-urban design deterred some visitors, yet as the complex accomodated 50,000 office workers alone on a daily basis (not counting the tourists, PATH users, mall visitors, etc), there was always life on that plaza. The worst thing about the old WTC layout is the edge conditions it created everywhere but on its east side. The south edge was a desolate parking lot, the west edge presented a formidable wall along a highway, and the north edge presented an even more formidable wall enclosed by the main WTC complex to the south and 7WTC's giant blank wall to the north. Coupled with the life-draining elevated plaza above, Vesey Street almost felt like a tunnel, with the only access to the elevated plaza being the Survivor's Staircase (I remember playing around on its escalator as a kid).

STR, that's the first time I'm hearing about that old WTC redevelopment plan. That's pretty cool.

NYguy
Jan 2, 2011, 10:00 PM
chipomatic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chimpomatic/5312489879/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5242/5312489879_0e1e92c522_b.jpg


coolz0r (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coolz0r/5310971934/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5002/5310971934_a501b9ccc5_b.jpg

spwelan
Jan 3, 2011, 12:26 AM
WcJEgAXLWJo

NYCLuver
Jan 3, 2011, 3:56 AM
January 2nd, 2011

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy306/DKNY619/IMG_2364.jpg
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy306/DKNY619/IMG_2367.jpg
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy306/DKNY619/IMG_2375.jpg

photoLith
Jan 3, 2011, 6:29 AM
Is it just me, or is this tower seeming like its taking absolutely forever to get going? I dont remember WTC 1 rising this slow, oh well, at least its going up though.

patriotizzy
Jan 3, 2011, 5:03 PM
Is it just me, or is this tower seeming like its taking absolutely forever to get going? I dont remember WTC 1 rising this slow, oh well, at least its going up though.

It's not just you sadly...
I agree though, at least this one is rising :shrug:

Dac150
Jan 3, 2011, 5:50 PM
It seems to be in alignment with the construction schedule, which I believe was posted on the previous page. 2013 is a little ways off, so don’t expect this one to sprout up a few floors over night.

STR
Jan 3, 2011, 9:17 PM
Is it just me, or is this tower seeming like its taking absolutely forever to get going? I dont remember WTC 1 rising this slow, oh well, at least its going up though.

Apparently you forgot the months and months 1WTC was stuck at the 3rd floor while they were building around the PATH tracks.

NYguy
Jan 3, 2011, 9:35 PM
http://www.observer.com/2011/real-estate/slideshow/exclusive-inside-4-world-trade-center-lobby

Getting Stoned at 150 Greenwich Street

http://www.observer.com/files/full/4WTC_Lobby_South_After_0.jpg

By Matt Chaban
January 3, 2011

The folks at Silverstein Properties returned from a Roman holiday last month.

The trip was for business, though the builders and architects who traveled to Carrara, Italy, no doubt derived some pleasure from seeing the lobby of 4 World Trade Center taking shape before their eyes. At a huge stonecutting facility in this Mediterranean town famous for its marble, the Silverstein team inspected the stones that will someday line the lobby of the Fumihiko Maki-designed tower, the first of three Silverstein projects at the site to be completed, with an expected opening of 2013.

As progress at Ground Zero became a palpable reality last year, these exclusive pictures of the lobby's construction and the trip serve as yet another reminder that construction really can happen at the World Trade Center site.

http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/4WTC_Lobby_South_Before.jpg



http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/WTC4_Marbles.jpg

Stone panels were set up in Carrara, Italy, where the pieces of the lobby will be cut and prepared. The lobby will consist of black Swedish granite, white thassos marble from Greece and Oiros stone for the floors, a composite of black, white and gray granites.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/WTC_Black_Marbel_0.jpg

The design and construction team inspect different pieces of the black granite.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/WTC4_Corner.jpg

The stone panels are actually far thinner than they appear, only a few centimeters thick. Unlike the huge marble blocks of the past, which were self-supporting, these panels will be affixed to modern concrete walls and are purely aesthetic.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/WTC_White_Marble.jpg

The team inspects different pieces of thassos marble to determine the preferred hue.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/4WTC_Lobby_Retail_After.jpg

The marble and stone can be seen here in a rendering of the lobby's retail galleria.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/4WTC_Lobby_Retail_Before.jpg

The galleria under construction today. Notice the escalator structure and the cantilevered viewing platform.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/4WTC_ext.JPG

A rendering of the tower, where the invitingly translucent glass of the base transitions to a more reflective tower, masking the workers inside while mirroring the sky.


http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/4WTC_Construction.jpg



http://www.observer.com/files/slideshow_image/4WTC_render2.jpg

STR
Jan 3, 2011, 9:43 PM
^That was conveniently timed given that I'm going to be working on that part of the building in the next few weeks.

OneWorldTradeCenter
Jan 4, 2011, 3:06 PM
:previous: It looks like they're going to install another crane?!

OneWorldTradeCenter
Jan 6, 2011, 4:53 PM
It really appears as they erect another crane at the podium:

denkmanttlb (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/with/5329429576/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5329432340_9d3506e21e_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5329431024_2fd0caf2c0_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5281/5329423540_fdb8f2fdbd_b.jpg

hunser
Jan 10, 2011, 11:46 AM
:previous: nice, a third crane for tower 4! :notacrook:

NYguy
Jan 10, 2011, 6:01 PM
baldeaglebluff (http://www.flickr.com/photos/baldeaglebluff/5341041493/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5341041493_eef9210e6c_b.jpg

Traynor
Jan 10, 2011, 6:58 PM
The most recent floors seem very short. (Or maybe it is an optical illusion, because the podium floors are very tall.) Are those the standard office floor heights for the rest of the tower? Or perhaps they are mechanical?

NYguy
Jan 11, 2011, 2:21 AM
^ They're on to office floors.


Image taken from wtc.com

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1079345-S1300x600.0.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1079345.jpg

STR
Jan 11, 2011, 3:44 AM
The most recent floors seem very short. (Or maybe it is an optical illusion, because the podium floors are very tall.) Are those the standard office floor heights for the rest of the tower? Or perhaps they are mechanical?

The office floors are 13'6" from slab to slab. The lower floors are mechanical spaces roughly twice as high. The office lobby on Greenwich St is ~50 feet high.

RoldanTTLB
Jan 11, 2011, 4:33 AM
Crane #3...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5169/5344726835_a0419a366b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5344726835/)

NYguy
Jan 11, 2011, 2:16 PM
in.formed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53024120@N04/5345575882/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5050/5345575882_92e27404be_b.jpg

NYguy
Jan 12, 2011, 5:48 PM
JANUARY 11, 2011

1.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080782.jpg


2.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080783.jpg


3.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080784-S1300x600.0.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


4.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080785-S1300x600.0.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


5.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080786-S1300x600.0.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


6.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080787-S1300x600.0.jpg?optimalizedperformance=true


7.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080788.jpg


8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080789.jpg


9.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080790.jpg


10.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080791.jpg


11.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1080792.jpg

MaximSokol
Jan 12, 2011, 5:52 PM
This thing is taking off too slow, awww... can't wait to see it risen!!!

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Jan 12, 2011, 10:55 PM
whats the schedule for this 1? a floor a week? a floor every 2 weeks?

RoldanTTLB
Jan 13, 2011, 2:06 AM
It'll surely be the same 2 floors every 2 weeks as 1WTC eventually. If you look closely, though, the exterior columns are all having concrete poured around them all the way up. This means the building is going slow until the complicated mechanical floors are all poured up. I guess just give it a little more time?

NYguy
Jan 13, 2011, 2:53 AM
Well, we've gone over the schedule, at least the one that was given to us, so we know what to expect.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Jan 13, 2011, 3:00 AM
It'll surely be the same 2 floors every 2 weeks as 1WTC eventually. If you look closely, though, the exterior columns are all having concrete poured around them all the way up. This means the building is going slow until the complicated mechanical floors are all poured up. I guess just give it a little more time?

ive been unhappy with this one since August....ive given it enough time...

NYguy
Jan 13, 2011, 4:13 PM
^ Well, check it out on Sept 11th to see if it meets its mark...

[QUOTE=NYguy;4965721]http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/realestate/commercial/flat_note_on_carnegie_a4v3jx086pAbsiTsX8aSoO

The steel should rise at about one floor per week and should reach the 45th floor by Sept. 11, 2011.

The curtain wall devised by architect Fumihiko Maki will begin appearing in winter 2012, and the tower should open in fall 2013.

Not so sure about that curtain wall.

RoldanTTLB
Jan 13, 2011, 8:00 PM
I am almost sure that they mean Jan 2012 at the latest (and more likely winter 2011). There's almost no way they'll take this to 45 floors by 9/11, then the next 16 floors by the end of the year and not have any glass on it at all.

simms3_redux
Jan 14, 2011, 2:21 AM
It's been a while since I have checked this thread. This thing is starting to pop!

NYguy
Jan 14, 2011, 3:37 AM
I am almost sure that they mean Jan 2012 at the latest (and more likely winter 2011). There's almost no way they'll take this to 45 floors by 9/11, then the next 16 floors by the end of the year and not have any glass on it at all.

I believe that as well, but I'm also keeping in mind that the original version of the Freedom Tower was to have been nearly topped out before cladding began. We'll see what happens.


MCalabriaartes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mc-artes/5353122457/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5353122457_48cbbdf30c_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5170/5353735676_b4a68b2f9f_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5353121191_4d39b40ac5_b.jpg

JACKinBeantown
Jan 14, 2011, 8:27 PM
Well, it's more than 12 floors so it's officially a highrise.

NYguy
Jan 14, 2011, 10:17 PM
daveskaff (http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveskaff/5354919171/sizes/o/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5289/5354919171_d4668bb1d5_o.jpg

Inkoumori
Jan 15, 2011, 12:51 AM
Wow, it's come a long way since I was last down there on Xmas. Love seeing Greenwich St. pushing through, that's going to make a huge difference integrating the complex vs. the old one.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Jan 22, 2011, 4:12 PM
Wow, it's come a long way since I was last down there on Xmas. Love seeing Greenwich St. pushing through, that's going to make a huge difference integrating the complex vs. the old one.

any idea when the curtain wall will go up?

NYguy
Jan 22, 2011, 5:38 PM
JANUARY 21, 2011


U_BfNQhyBXI


1.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108525.jpg


2.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108526.jpg


3.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108527.jpg


4.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108528.jpg


5.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108529.jpg


6.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108530.jpg


7.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108531.jpg


8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108532.jpg


9.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108533.jpg


10.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108534.jpg


11.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108535.jpg


12.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108536.jpg


13.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108537.jpg


14.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108538.jpg


15.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108539.jpg


16.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108540.jpg


17.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108541.jpg


18.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108542.jpg


19.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1108543.jpg

Dac150
Jan 22, 2011, 5:43 PM
Little by little OLP is getting eclipsed.

Don098
Jan 23, 2011, 8:09 AM
Picture 18 is beautiful. Can't wait until the spring when we'll see this thing finally taking off at high speed!

NYC4Life
Jan 24, 2011, 6:13 PM
Great to see the third tower crane at the site, it appears overdue.

Zensteeldude
Feb 1, 2011, 10:30 PM
The other day I found a pic online taken at roughly the same spot as pic 19 above. It was shot in 1969. I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it, I decided to post the url to the entire collection. The photo I was referring to is at the bottom of the first page.

It would appear that Richard Quinney was the (un-official) Joe Woolhead of his day.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/results.asp?pageno=1&keyword1=quinney&keyword2=world+trade+center&keyword3=&search_field1=creator&search_field2=&search_field3=&boolean_type1=and&boolean_type2=and&subject_broad_id=&subject_broad=&subject_narrow_id=&subject_narrow=&decade=&genre=&genre_text=&wi_county_code=&wi_county_text=&added_within=&sort_by=date&search_type=advanced&results_relevancy=

CoolCzech
Feb 1, 2011, 10:58 PM
Heh. Alexander Hamilton is buried in one of those graves... I wonder what he would have thought of 9/11, and the ongoing aftermath. (Or maybe he's buried at Trinity? Still, but a short walk away)

NYguy
Feb 2, 2011, 3:27 PM
The other day I found a pic online taken at roughly the same spot as pic 19 above. It was shot in 1969. I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it, I decided to post the url to the entire collection. The photo I was referring to is at the bottom of the first page.

It would appear that Richard Quinney was the (un-official) Joe Woolhead of his day.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/results.asp?pageno=1&keyword1=quinney&keyword2=world+trade+center&keyword3=&search_field1=creator&search_field2=&search_field3=&boolean_type1=and&boolean_type2=and&subject_broad_id=&subject_broad=&subject_narrow_id=&subject_narrow=&decade=&genre=&genre_text=&wi_county_code=&wi_county_text=&added_within=&sort_by=date&search_type=advanced&results_relevancy=

History repeats itself...

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700009220006/0922000027-l.jpg?


http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700007040010/0704000157-l.jpg



alexnyc2011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58945806@N02/5403280031/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/5403280031_d907d2d2cf_b.jpg

NYguy
Feb 4, 2011, 11:45 PM
They were preparing to install 2 more cranes on the south side of the tower today, I'll post pics later.


dfiHnT42Yuc

Traynor
Feb 5, 2011, 1:10 PM
I haven't been following Tower 4 as closely as Tower 1 and only drop in this thread periodically... It is not built quite as robust as Tower 1 for obvious reasons, but there sure seem to be some columns missing.

Why are there so few perimeter columns on the highest floors at the moment? I can understand that there may be no corner columns for aesthetic or design purposes but none in the middle of every floor?

:shrug:

OneWorldTradeCenter
Feb 5, 2011, 2:31 PM
All those buildings looked so small when they were in the foundations, and now they really become huge.

NYguy
Feb 5, 2011, 3:09 PM
Pics from yesterday (FEBRUARY 4, 2011)

1.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137256.jpg


2.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137257.jpg


3.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137258.jpg


4.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137259.jpg


5.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137260.jpg


6.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137261.jpg


7.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137262.jpg


8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1135990.jpg


9.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137263.jpg


10.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137264.jpg


11.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137265.jpg


12. More cranes coming

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137266.jpg


13.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137267.jpg


14.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137268.jpg


15.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137269.jpg


16. A reminder of how massive this tower will be, over 200 ft taller than Liberty Plaza...

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137270.jpg


17.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137271.jpg


18.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137272.jpg


19.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137273.jpg


20.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137274.jpg


21.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137275.jpg


22.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1135994.jpg


23.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137276.jpg


24.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1137278.jpg

uakoops
Feb 6, 2011, 3:22 AM
They were preparing to install 2 more cranes on the south side of the tower today, I'll post pics later.



Form your pictures it looks like they took down the 3rd crane to fix something on it.

STR
Feb 6, 2011, 4:40 AM
I haven't been following Tower 4 as closely as Tower 1 and only drop in this thread periodically... It is not built quite as robust as Tower 1 for obvious reasons, but there sure seem to be some columns missing.

Why are there so few perimeter columns on the highest floors at the moment? I can understand that there may be no corner columns for aesthetic or design purposes but none in the middle of every floor?

:shrug:

It's designed with 80 foot wide column free spans. It's still built stronger than any other modern building outside of the WTC, as any two adjacent columns can be completely severed and the building will remain intact. This is, in fact, the same standard 1WTC is being built to, as well as 2 & 3, and what Tower 7 can handle. Tower 1 just adds the 200 feet of vacant space to reduce casualties in a car bombing.

The views will be nuts.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4943/w016.jpg

NYguy
Feb 6, 2011, 1:26 PM
Form your pictures it looks like they took down the 3rd crane to fix something on it.

I noticed that as well, and I'm not sure what the new cranes are for.



Grimmers21 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59144465@N07/5419855864/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5419855864_7d0dbfcab1_b.jpg


pip_goat (http://www.flickr.com/photos/19241549@N04/5418103573/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5418103573_67e7c9df6b_b.jpg

uakoops
Feb 7, 2011, 4:29 AM
I noticed that as well, and I'm not sure what the new cranes are for.



There are no new cranes. the tower sections on the south side are the ones they removed from the 3rd crane on the East side.

NYguy
Feb 7, 2011, 1:59 PM
There are no new cranes. the tower sections on the south side are the ones they removed from the 3rd crane on the East side.

Thought that was a little strange. Anyway, I may be in the area today, so I'll check it out.

STR
Feb 8, 2011, 4:04 AM
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/381/n181.jpg