PDA

You are viewing a trimmed-down version of the SkyscraperPage.com discussion forum.  For the full version follow the link below.

View Full Version : NEW YORK | 150 Greenwich St. | 977 FT / 297 M | 72 FLOORS



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 [15] 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37

STR
Mar 27, 2011, 8:42 PM
^^I lol'd.

So, which one is it? concrete or fireproofing?

Fireproofing. You don't need blankets to pour concrete, as evidenced by the very obvious fact that the concrete work is 3 floors ahead of the fireproofing.

Lecom
Mar 27, 2011, 8:52 PM
^ Because at night WTC4 is cold, so the workers decided to put a blanket on it

Interestingly, this is so spot on that the following was unnesessary:

but seriously its for concrete pouring

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Mar 27, 2011, 9:43 PM
wait....how did it gain 8 floors and only gain 3 feet?

Lecom
Mar 27, 2011, 10:39 PM
wait....how did it gain 8 floors and only gain 3 feet?

I'm guessing by a mere change in floor numbering. In 1WTC, the first office floor is called "20" while it's really only the 9th floor or so (though it is located probably higher than most 20th floors in office buildings).

NYguy
Mar 28, 2011, 3:05 PM
I'm guessing by a mere change in floor numbering.

That's it.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Mar 28, 2011, 7:12 PM
damn i wish this thing would at least reach to 984'.

Jaystang5
Mar 31, 2011, 2:03 AM
I've noticed that 4 WTC is going alot faster than 1 WTC. From the discovery cam on top the 7WTC, I'd estimate the rate of steel erection is about 1 floor per 4 or 5 days.
less columns and or closer to the ground perhaps?

NYguy
Mar 31, 2011, 5:59 AM
babybiceps (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35377043@N00/5573323393/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5573323393_13f1545a26_b.jpg


bets270 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57732278@N00/5575761073/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5028/5575761073_65a6bc5130_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5053/5575763177_4391989334_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5576349506_4352e10b9f_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5229/5576346392_19bc9227f8_b.jpg

NYguy
Mar 31, 2011, 5:16 PM
slopepics (http://www.flickr.com/photos/slopepics/5575829221/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5575829221_69e14ee3c0_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5575875365_d1e95eff73_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5070/5576421980_4fbbf93b31_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5575871979_d840262d7a_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5576453792_43e1f5f571_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5256/5575841377_fcb73f0e66_b.jpg


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5092/5575845137_7af8ae5089_b.jpg

NYguy
Apr 1, 2011, 8:43 PM
http://lowermanhattan.info/construction/project_updates/world_trade_center_tower_76774.aspx

*The following information was last updated on April 1, 2011.

-Steel is now above floor 20

-Curtain wall installation begins mid-April 2011

-Concrete pours, fireproofing and masonry underway

BStyles
Apr 1, 2011, 9:00 PM
I love those supports now that they're encased in concrete.

Dac150
Apr 1, 2011, 10:13 PM
Looking forward to the curtain wall installation; the cladding will certainly make or break this building. Based on what we’ve seen so far with the cladding of Tower 1, I anticipate Tower 4 won’t disappoint.

The Grand Architect
Apr 1, 2011, 10:20 PM
http://lowermanhattan.info/construction/project_updates/world_trade_center_tower_76774.aspx

That's pretty early, considering the steel is only at floor 20. But, I must admit, it would be better to get it over sooner than later.

Patapsco
Apr 2, 2011, 12:05 AM
April 1, 2011
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5305/5580951474_e2c82a36dd_b.jpg

ESB/WTC fan
Apr 2, 2011, 12:33 AM
Nice to hear that the cladding on 4 WTC will begin later this month! I wonder if they will leave the lobby naked like they did on Tower 1? And start on the office floors...?

The Grand Architect
Apr 2, 2011, 12:48 AM
Nice to hear that the cladding on 4 WTC will begin later this month! I wonder if they will leave the lobby naked like they did on Tower 1? And start on the office floors...?

I'm having a feeling that the cladding will start on the office floors, just like Tower 1. The lobby section of the 4 WTC is still under some construction, and it will be a while before the lobby has all the necessary requirements for the glass to hold in place.

STR
Apr 2, 2011, 11:17 AM
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/675/82527845.jpg

djlx2
Apr 2, 2011, 11:50 AM
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/675/82527845.jpg

what next?

RobertWalpole
Apr 2, 2011, 1:06 PM
That's beautiful.

Obey
Apr 2, 2011, 1:59 PM
Those inside pics are fantastic.

patriotizzy
Apr 2, 2011, 7:38 PM
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/675/82527845.jpg

The reflection of 1WTC sort of caught me off guard. Funny how the angles will reflect :D

djlx2
Apr 2, 2011, 7:50 PM
The reflection of 1WTC sort of caught me off guard. Funny how the angles will reflect :D

not sure if you mean to say the reflection in the image itself or that it got bounced back in a surprising direction; if the first it's probably "on a city street, constructed by someone else, made its way into the camera" (possibly b/c it's a cute building with shade). The second; just lighting conditions that moment of the day, I guess, like the way things posted on the internet unpredictably end up on twitter somehow??? (I dunno about that either)

JACKinBeantown
Apr 3, 2011, 3:06 AM
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/675/82527845.jpg

Hey, no fair taking pictures people haven't taken yet! :worship:

patriotizzy
Apr 3, 2011, 3:25 AM
not sure if you mean to say the reflection in the image itself or that it got bounced back in a surprising direction; if the first it's probably "on a city street, constructed by someone else, made its way into the camera" (possibly b/c it's a cute building with shade). The second; just lighting conditions that moment of the day, I guess, like the way things posted on the internet unpredictably end up on twitter somehow??? (I dunno about that either)

I meant the reflection of 1WTC on the building's glass. The way the top half of the building is angled, the 1WTC reflects looking at it from where the shot was taken. Just caught me off guard, tripped me out a bit ha.

newhannibal
Apr 3, 2011, 4:21 AM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5583674381_799a26226b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanbudhu/5583674381/)Four World Trade Center Construction (150 Greenwich Street) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanbudhu/5583674381/) by newhannibal112 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ryanbudhu/), on Flickr

TinnitusClock
Apr 3, 2011, 7:47 AM
I meant the reflection of 1WTC on the building's glass. The way the top half of the building is angled, the 1WTC reflects looking at it from where the shot was taken. Just caught me off guard, tripped me out a bit ha.

I love this photo a lot. I like the idea of towers seeing each other in reflections. I think the idea of it is what made the idea of the WTC towers so beautiful in the first place.

And basically I love that image because it's towers looking at one another, and you see one watching the other, even if you don't know for sure what the other one sees.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Apr 4, 2011, 1:16 AM
today

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5790.jpg

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5781.jpg

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5778.jpg

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5769.jpg

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5775.jpg

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5760.jpg

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/skyscrapersofnewyork/stuff/DSCN5765.jpg

STR
Apr 4, 2011, 1:42 AM
The reflection of 1WTC sort of caught me off guard. Funny how the angles will reflect :D

It's actually pretty hard to avoid having 1WTC reflect off of 4WTC. It was probably a deliberate decision in the design of 4 World Trade. Render was from the corner of Liberty and South End Ave, so that particular shot is something you should be able to capture with no problems yourself.

NYguy
Apr 4, 2011, 4:51 PM
I continue to be impressed with this one.

APRIL 3, 2011

1.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281071.jpg


2.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281072.jpg


3.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281073.jpg


4.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281074.jpg


5.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281075.jpg


6.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281076.jpg


7.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281077.jpg


8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281079.jpg


9.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281078.jpg


10.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281080.jpg


11.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281083.jpg


12.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281081.jpg


13.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281082.jpg


14.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281084.jpg


15.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281085.jpg


16.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281086.jpg


17.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281088.jpg


18.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281087.jpg


19. Interlude: Liberty Plaza, another massive "box"

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281089.jpg


20.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281090.jpg


21. End interlude. Liberty Plaza will be dominated by this beast.

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281091.jpg


22.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281092.jpg


23.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281093.jpg


24.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281094.jpg


25.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281095.jpg


26.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281096.jpg


27.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281097.jpg


28.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281099.jpg


29.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1281098.jpg

NYguy
Apr 4, 2011, 8:34 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110404-709373.html

UPDATE: World Trade Center Muni Bond Deal May Sell Next Week

By Kelly Nolan
April 4, 2011

A $1.275 billion municipal bond deal to help finance one of the World Trade Center towers could be sold as soon as next week, a person familiar with the matter said Monday.

The offering -- which will help finance 4 World Trade Center, a 1.8 million-square-foot tower already under construction in Lower Manhattan -- originally was scheduled to sell in December but had been delayed amid volatile price swings in the municipal bond market.

The deal's tentative structure includes $900 million of fixed-rate bonds and $375 million of floating-rate debt. The earliest day the transaction could price is Wednesday, April 13, a person familiar with the matter said.

The bonds will be sold through the New York Liberty Development Corporation on behalf of the developer, Silverstein Properties. Goldman Sachs (GS) and J.P. Morgan (JPM) are the senior managers on the issue.

A spokesman from Silverstein couldn't immediately provide a comment.

The rescheduling of the deal's sale date comes as the municipal bond market has been starved for issuance. The amount of muni bonds sold in the first quarter of the year was the lowest it's been in 11 years.

Zensteeldude
Apr 5, 2011, 9:29 PM
Excellent photo update NYGuy ! T4 may only have 4 columns per side but they are nice big, concrete encased columns.

PS: I am always on the lookout for tax free anything.:)

(Yes, it is slightly tacky that they stole the name of the bonds from the Liberty Bonds sold during WW2.)

slayerhk47
Apr 5, 2011, 9:54 PM
Is there a structural reason why #4 has cross supports on one side as opposed to ones that go straight up like on all the other sides? I thought it might have to do with that side being next to the pit but then there should be two sides like that.

STR
Apr 5, 2011, 10:13 PM
Because the base columns on the north face don't line up with the tower columns.

Zensteeldude
Apr 5, 2011, 10:30 PM
It has to do with were they could place the columns at the bedrock level.
As STR said, they are not in a nice straight line all the way down.

There is alot of stuff happening below grade. So they had to get the columns back to the correct spacing above grade.

The same thing can be seen with Towers One and Two.

NYguy
Apr 6, 2011, 12:58 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/no_room_for_city_at_wtc_QdH415yGNZj9m4nKOAv2YP

No room for city at 4 WTC

By DAVID SEIFMAN
April 6, 2011

City workers looking forward to moving into spectacular new offices at the World Trade Center in a couple of years had better get a Plan B.

Developer Larry Silverstein surprisingly indicated yesterday that private tenants might take over the nearly 600,000 square feet that the city has committed to renting in the second tower he's putting up at the WTC.

"It's totally conceivable that with time, the city's obligation may not be necessary," Silverstein said at 7 WTC, where the law firm WilmerHale announced that it's taking 210,000 square feet.

To secure financing for the nearby Tower 4, the city and the Port Authority agreed five years ago to rent two-thirds of its 1.8 million square feet.

Two months ago, Silverstein exercised that option, which requires the city to move in once the building is completed.

Mayoral spokesman Jason Post said, "If Silverstein Properties found a tenant and asked the city to terminate the lease at 4 WTC, we would agree."

davidinasia
Apr 7, 2011, 5:49 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/no_room_for_city_at_wtc_QdH415yGNZj9m4nKOAv2YP

No room for city at 4 WTC

By DAVID SEIFMAN
April 6, 2011

City workers looking forward to moving into spectacular new offices at the World Trade Center in a couple of years had better get a Plan B.

Developer Larry Silverstein surprisingly indicated yesterday that private tenants might take over the nearly 600,000 square feet that the city has committed to renting in the second tower he's putting up at the WTC.

"It's totally conceivable that with time, the city's obligation may not be necessary," Silverstein said at 7 WTC, where the law firm WilmerHale announced that it's taking 210,000 square feet.

To secure financing for the nearby Tower 4, the city and the Port Authority agreed five years ago to rent two-thirds of its 1.8 million square feet.

Two months ago, Silverstein exercised that option, which requires the city to move in once the building is completed.

Mayoral spokesman Jason Post said, "If Silverstein Properties found a tenant and asked the city to terminate the lease at 4 WTC, we would agree."


This is great news... but seems to me it would be even better news if the city insisted on keeping its space in T4, thereby compelling Silverstein to slot any prospective tenants into T3 or T2.

NYguy
Apr 7, 2011, 7:19 PM
This is great news... but seems to me it would be even better news if the city insisted on keeping its space in T4, thereby compelling Silverstein to slot any prospective tenants into T3 or T2.

That wouldn't be best for the site. Any tenant moving to towers 2 or 3 probably wouldn't be moving to tower 4. The only reason the City agreed to lease space at this tower was so that Silverstein could get the construction moving - but he was required to give a 3 year notice that he wanted the City to do so. With the market improving as it is, Silverstein will more than likely be able to fill the space with a private tenant. The City doesn't need this new office space, and the WTC is seen as keeping and attracting corporate tenants Downtown. Similarly, the State may not take space in the Freedom Tower. These are all signs of better leasing activity Downtown, and throws all the fears of too much office space being built away.

Lecom
Apr 8, 2011, 5:46 PM
T1 and T4 are the truest successors at the site to the original Twin Towers, imo: T1 in size/massing/proportions, and T4 in its minimalist, monumental design intent.

Big Towers
Apr 8, 2011, 10:27 PM
That wouldn't be best for the site. Any tenant moving to towers 2 or 3 probably wouldn't be moving to tower 4. The only reason the City agreed to lease space at this tower was so that Silverstein could get the construction moving - but he was required to give a 3 year notice that he wanted the City to do so. With the market improving as it is, Silverstein will more than likely be able to fill the space with a private tenant. The City doesn't need this new office space, and the WTC is seen as keeping and attracting corporate tenants Downtown. Similarly, the State may not take space in the Freedom Tower. These are all signs of better leasing activity Downtown, and throws all the fears of too much office space being built away.

Watch all of the Towers built with only 5 tenants in each. What a waste.

^^ But highly unlikely.

NYguy
Apr 9, 2011, 1:49 PM
Watch all of the Towers built with only 5 tenants in each. What a waste.

^^ But highly unlikely.

What's more important is not the number of tenants, but how much space is leased by each.
But as everyone should be reminded, this is more replacement office space than new.


marky152 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60186762@N04/5601695774/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5601695774_ebfe7a1d1c_b.jpg

Fishman92
Apr 9, 2011, 9:39 PM
So, anyone know when they'll start installing facade glass?
It's great progress, it's just awfully bear at the minute.

The Grand Architect
Apr 10, 2011, 2:21 AM
So, anyone know when they'll start installing facade glass?
It's great progress, it's just awfully bear at the minute.

Later this month. Glass panels will be similar to 1 WTC's, but will be more transparent, according to STR.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Apr 10, 2011, 2:57 AM
Later this month. Glass panels will be similar to 1 WTC's, but will be more transparent, according to STR.

Aren't the panels supposed to be more reflective?

JSsocal
Apr 10, 2011, 3:22 AM
Most likely, in almost every render the building as a silverish hue, I think it will reflect less sky then the others. Keep in mind 1 WTC and 7 WTC have totally clear glass.

The Grand Architect
Apr 10, 2011, 2:13 PM
I hope I still had that article with me....I'd read somewhere that the glass will be more reflective as viewed on the outside, but on the inside, it's more transparent. According to the article (I forgot the name), this is to prevent excess sunlight from entering the building, while at the same time, attempt to hide the floors from people outside.

Coincidently STR, a few pages back on this thread, told me that the glass was less transparent, which supports that statement:

EDIT: I found STR's post!



I've read they're actually going for something less transparent on Tower 4 than on the other towers. They've actually developed (in partnership with, I believe, Dow Corning) a special glazing just for this building. It would be the same color and brightness, but Maki is really trying to hide the floors from the outside.

EDIT: Yep, Dow Corning

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Apr 11, 2011, 3:30 AM
ya thats what i remember Maki saying that it'll be the kind of glass where it'll be much easier too look out of than look in.

NYguy
Apr 11, 2011, 1:42 PM
http://www.wtc.com/news/4-wtc-facade-sample-erected-in-new-jersey

This is a "curtain wall mockup" of the office lobby of Tower 4, which will face Greenwich Street and the WTC Memorial Park. The architect - Fumihiko Maki - designed the lobby with "ultra clear" glass, in order be as open and transparent as possible,


http://www.wtc.com/about/office-tower-4/office-tower-4-design

The building's façades will be clad in floor–to–ceiling windows utilizing composite glass with multiple layers of coatings intended to achieve a mat metallic quality with a luminous sheen. This will give the tower an abstract quality – minimal, light, cool in color, and ephemeral, changing with the light of day.


http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/120_69/-1025422-1.html

The Port Authority will rent 600,766 square feet and New York City will rent 581,642 square feet.

Silverstein said that snagging the Port Authority and the city as tenants has helped finance construction of Tower 4, but that the building may not need New York City to occupy office space.

“The city made its commitment to us just [like] the Port Authority to provide for financing of the building of Tower 4; it was totally conceivable at the time,” Silverstein said during the press conference. “The city’s obligation may not prove to be necessary, but only time will tell. But it was done for financing purposes.”

The city will pay $32.8 million in rent for the first year of the lease, at $56.50 per square foot, according to the preliminary official statement The rental price per square foot will increase gradually every year.

The Grand Architect
Apr 11, 2011, 10:32 PM
Maki wants the lobby to be extra transparent, but the office floors less transparent. I'm guessing they want to be green by saving a few bucks on lighting in the lobby. Wonder why they didn't do the same thing with the office floors to save even more money. It makes more sense.


In a modest lot in Orange, New Jersey, a section of 4 World Trade Center (4 WTC) has risen. It is a "curtain wall mock-up" of the future skyscraper's façade, commissioned by developer Silverstein Properties and erected by metal fabricator firm MetFab this spring. The mock-up stands 50 feet tall and 20 feet wide, and has given architect Fumihiko Maki and his design team a chance to view how the ultra-clear glass and steel function in the light of day.

MetFab built the 4 WTC mock-up at its plant, where it manufactured the massive steel mullions -- the longest of which tops out at 47 feet and weighs 7,000 pounds (about the weight of a Hummer). It holds in place the massive glass panels that are made to be as transparent as possible, to "bring the outside in."

Meanwhile in Lower Manhattan, Tower 4 is now nearing the end of its foundation-construction phase, with its four sub-grade stories now filling out the southeast corner of the WTC site. It is expected to reach grade by early September, when superstructure erection will begin.

The completed tower will be home to a 47-foot-tall lobby that faces the National 9/11 Memorial, enclosed by 20 large glass panels. The full tower, to reach 64 stories total (975 feet), will be wrapped in 10,000 glass panels and be built with 26,000 tons of structural steel. It is projected to open in 2012.

This is a "curtain wall mockup" of the office lobby of Tower 4, which will face Greenwich Street and the WTC Memorial Park. The architect - Fumihiko Maki - designed the lobby with "ultra clear" glass, in order be as open and transparent as possible,

The mockup was put together by Metfab in Orange, NJ. It is 20 feet wide by 50 feet tall. It consists of two very large panels of glass (10 feet wide by 12 feet tall), 24 panels (2.5 feet by 11 feet), and a series of steel mullions. The longest mullion is 47 feet high - the height of the lobby, and weight 7,000 pounds, the weight of a Hummer.

The finished lobby will contain 20 of these large glass panels and building will contain 10,000 glass panels in total. Each glass panel is made of two laminated layers.

26,000 tons of structural steel
25,000 cubic yards of concrete
10,000 glass panels for the office tower (maybe 1,000 more at the podium)

Although the actual tower itself is now approaching street level, the lobby glass is usually one of the last things to be installed.

djlx2
Apr 12, 2011, 5:40 AM
Here's a picture of the WTC site from this evening:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i323/djlx2v2/WTC6.jpg

I'm posting it here because this tower has always been my favorite in the succession (even if I haven't said it out loud). The number of its stories will be super-imperial.

NYguy
Apr 12, 2011, 1:10 PM
Wonder why they didn't do the same thing with the office floors to save even more money. It makes more sense.

It has more to do with the intended appearance (design) rather than cost.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/realestate/commercial/side_story_condo_test_PjcBRSebgYpqgoUM52SYaM

By STEVE CUOZZO
April 12, 2011


The $900 million Liberty Bond offering to help finance Larry Silverstein's 4 World Trade Center has been put off again.

Last week, the Empire State Development Corp. said some $1.375 billion in tax-exempt, fixed- and floating-rate bonds would be issued this week by a group of investment banks led by Goldman Sachs. The issue had been put off from the planned date last December due to turmoil in the muni market.

But Goldman apparently changed its mind. Yesterday, in a statement, Silverstein and the Port Authority said they "anticipate" selling the bonds "when conditions in the financial markets improve."

Because Silverstein has $400 million in insurance proceeds for the project, work on 4 WTC continues apace -- steel is up to 21 stories of a total 63.

NYguy
Apr 12, 2011, 1:20 PM
http://www.jaunted.com/story/2011/4/11/04821/2153/travel/Freedom+Tower+Finally+Towering+Over+World+Trade+Center+Site
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1296972.jpg

CGII
Apr 12, 2011, 6:30 PM
Maki wants the lobby to be extra transparent, but the office floors less transparent. I'm guessing they want to be green by saving a few bucks on lighting in the lobby. Wonder why they didn't do the same thing with the office floors to save even more money. It makes more sense.

Basically, the two big things to consider are thermal mass (the office floors have less of it) and glare from sunlight (less desirable on office floors).

The Grand Architect
Apr 12, 2011, 11:46 PM
It has more to do with the intended appearance (design) rather than cost.


Sorry, I meant to say "Saving more money on electricity, rather than spending money on artifical lighting". My apologies for not making it clear.

Anyways, I guess your right when it comes down to design vs. costs. Hey, if they want it darker on the outside, its fine by me!:yes:

J.M.
Apr 13, 2011, 12:21 AM
I've always liked the design of this, simple but still strong.

NYguy
Apr 13, 2011, 3:44 PM
Sorry, I meant to say "Saving more money on electricity, rather than spending money on artifical lighting". My apologies for not making it clear.


When you look at the design of most new or proposed office towers in Manhattan, the lobbys are "light, and airy". The rest of the tower could have been lighter, but it has more to do with the design, meaning it's designed to appear the way the arthitect intended. They're going for a particular look.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/90034612/large.jpg



Older lobby renderings...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/104971895/original.jpg

SkyscrapersOfNewYork
Apr 13, 2011, 6:36 PM
its funny because all those lobbies remind me of One Chase Manhattan Plaza.

http://www.observer.com/files/full/OneChase3-pietroizzo.jpg
http://www.observer.com/files/full/OneChase3-pietroizzo.jpg

STR
Apr 13, 2011, 10:26 PM
The tower cladding won't be opaque because of cost. There's a lot of ways to get cost savings with a glazing without having to pay Dow Corning a million dollars to invent something new. Maki wants to hide the floorplates from exterior view, as the profit-making within the building might be viewed as somewhat of an affront to the memorial across the street. So he hides them from view, reducing the building to a static, abstract sculpture that fades into the background for those that want to contemplate the loss of life.

Troubadour
Apr 13, 2011, 10:39 PM
Lobbies need to be less ethereal and sterile. It's like architects are afraid to let these places actually be places, and that's unfortunate - everything should be allowed to add to the richness of an environment.

djlx2
Apr 13, 2011, 10:47 PM
Lobbies need to be less ethereal and sterile. It's like architects are afraid to let these places actually be places, and that's unfortunate - everything should be allowed to add to the richness of an environment.

I agree with the idea of this...but how do you mean that this should take place? Where and how would you change something like lobbies to make it less sterile? Or where would you look to change it?

vandelay
Apr 14, 2011, 12:37 AM
I wish more skyscrapers incorporated living walls, like the Rubinstein atrium. If Lincoln Center can manage to have one without much light at all, it can't be too much to ask for a commercial entity with acres of glass and natural light to maintain one. Not only does vegetation improve the air, absorb sound, etc. but it's visually pleasing and interesting.

djlx2
Apr 14, 2011, 1:13 AM
I wish more skyscrapers incorporated living walls, like the Rubinstein atrium. If Lincoln Center can manage to have one without much light at all, it can't be too much to ask for a commercial entity with acres of glass and natural light to maintain one. Not only does vegetation improve the air, absorb sound, etc. but it's visually pleasing and interesting.

agreed! I wonder how much approval they need to arrange that

Troubadour
Apr 14, 2011, 1:35 AM
I agree with the idea of this...but how do you mean that this should take place? Where and how would you change something like lobbies to make it less sterile? Or where would you look to change it?

There are a multitude of very diverse ways to use lobbies more constructively - in fact, the large number is kind of the point. The options are limitless, and yet despite having a whole universe of possibilities, for some reason most lobbies and similar areas are built as soul-sucking voids. Fortunately there are good examples out there worth emulating.

Some features I've seen here and there:

1. Living things. Mostly this consists of plants, but fish tanks, fish ponds, and aviaries are also good (with pleasant-sounding birds, not squawking / annoying ones).

2. Active natural lighting. As in, sunlight is actually brought into the place, not just passively allowed in at certain times of day when the angles are convenient.

3. Water features. Fountains, ponds, waterfalls, trickle sculptures, etc.

4. Height changes. It's amazing how much more interesting a place can be that has a few low steps or winding ramps here and there. This is even more the case with high-ceiling lobbies, allowing for terraces.

5. Attractiveness over anesthesia. It's unfortunate that both business and government prefer to deal with people in a zombie mental state than as active, engaged minds, so they prefer environments that dull the senses. And I find that stupid, because I think more would get done if people felt connected to their surroundings - they would be more energetic and focused, and yet at the same time less anxious. Everyone knows this from experience.

For something like WTC towers, the obligation for a proper environment is even more obvious. I'm not saying turn their lobbies into vacation resorts, but they should be people-oriented, not the generic, soulless airlocks found in most corporate office buildings.

djlx2
Apr 14, 2011, 2:14 AM
There are a multitude of very diverse ways to use lobbies more constructively - in fact, the large number is kind of the point. The options are limitless, and yet despite having a whole universe of possibilities, for some reason most lobbies and similar areas are built as soul-sucking voids. Fortunately there are good examples out there worth emulating.

Some features I've seen here and there:

1. Living things. Mostly this consists of plants, but fish tanks, fish ponds, and aviaries are also good (with pleasant-sounding birds, not squawking / annoying ones).

2. Active natural lighting. As in, sunlight is actually brought into the place, not just passively allowed in at certain times of day when the angles are convenient.

3. Water features. Fountains, ponds, waterfalls, trickle sculptures, etc.

4. Height changes. It's amazing how much more interesting a place can be that has a few low steps or winding ramps here and there. This is even more the case with high-ceiling lobbies, allowing for terraces.

5. Attractiveness over anesthesia. It's unfortunate that both business and government prefer to deal with people in a zombie mental state than as active, engaged minds, so they prefer environments that dull the senses. And I find that stupid, because I think more would get done if people felt connected to their surroundings - they would be more energetic and focused, and yet at the same time less anxious. Everyone knows this from experience.

For something like WTC towers, the obligation for a proper environment is even more obvious. I'm not saying turn their lobbies into vacation resorts, but they should be people-oriented, not the generic, soulless airlocks found in most corporate office buildings.

it wouldn't fit the meaning of the WTC towers for them not to have a people-oriented environment. The generic airlocks of corporate office buildings seem to have something to do with whatever environment the architects start from and rushing a job under a deadline without having the time to properly execute it.

Fish tanks and aviaries are also good; I find that artwork, visual and otherwise, also adds to a human presence; as much daylight as possible, meaning how the windows themselves are constructed and also the quality of the glass (how it receives/reflects sunlight); right?

Possibly one of the setbacks in design is that design criticism and restructural suggestions all come down through a trickle-process of feedback, meaning by the time it reaches actual designers it's marked over too many times. Plus it's paperwork, which slows down the improvement process...

NYguy
Apr 14, 2011, 5:16 AM
I don't know what you foks are talking about. With the exception of the Freedom Tower (for obvious reasons) the bases of the WTC towers are all opened up for lively, public spaces. The corporate lobbys of the buildings are what they are because that's what corporate New York wants.


Daniel Novello (http://www.flickr.com/photos/novellos/5616229645/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5102/5616229645_0918c9856c_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5223/5616809998_757e0f4500_b.jpg


J. Tant|Photography (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hangloose24/5616890287/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5616890287_671efe39ed_b.jpg

NYguy
Apr 14, 2011, 5:21 AM
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/larry-silverstein-s-4-world-trade-center-bonds-must-sell-by-end-of-year-or-risk-delay-port-authority-director-chris-ward-says

WTC bonds must sell by end of year or risk delay: Port Authority

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/images/260526/tower-4-250.jpg

April 13, 2011
By Adam Pincus


The state funding entity New York Liberty Development that pulled a $900 million bond offering Monday needs to sell the securities by the end of the year or risk stalling the construction schedule of 4 World Trade Center, Christopher Ward, executive director of the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, said today.

Larry Silverstein's Silverstein Properties has enough money to fund the project through the end of the year, but the additional funds are needed to be certain that work proceeds into 2012.

"We would need to price those [4 World Trade Center] bonds at least by the end of this year to ensure that construction continues. And we are very optimistic that is going to happen," Ward said.

Ward was talking with reporters after speaking this morning at a construction industry breakfast forum in Midtown, hosted by the trade group, New York Building Congress.

STR
Apr 14, 2011, 11:38 PM
The building's façades will be clad in floor–to–ceiling windows utilizing composite glass with multiple layers of coatings intended to achieve a mat metallic quality with a luminous sheen. This will give the tower an abstract quality – minimal, light, cool in color, and ephemeral, changing with the light of day.

Huh. I missed the part where they said it's going to have a matte (someone get them a dictionary!) finish. It should look something like a glare-resistant computer screen, with diffuse (not ripple-distorted, but actually blurred) reflections. Like a giant hunk of frosted glass that you can actually see out of.

Some quick mock-ups. I'll do something more final in a few weeks once the first panels are in place.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5774/4f1l.jpg http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2053/4f2h.jpg http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/839/4f3s.jpg

Troubadour
Apr 15, 2011, 1:44 AM
I don't know what you foks are talking about. With the exception of the Freedom Tower (for obvious reasons) the bases of the WTC towers are all opened up for lively, public spaces. The corporate lobbys of the buildings are what they are because that's what corporate New York wants.

Not sure I understand. The renderings show ground-floor spaces that are thoroughly generic - featureless, flat, hard flooring; wide open, empty space; bland vacuum all around. Will the buildings have multiple ground-floor lobbies, with some of them being people-oriented and others being the abstract voids depicted earlier?

NYCLuver
Apr 15, 2011, 2:23 AM
April 14th, 2011

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy111/DKNY618/IMG_2610.jpg
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy111/DKNY618/IMG_2611.jpg

STR
Apr 15, 2011, 9:14 AM
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8308/4f4.jpg

Don098
Apr 15, 2011, 2:37 PM
Boy, one can only hope it ends up looking like this. If it does, I'm going to wish that facade had been used on all of the new WTC buildings...

djlx2
Apr 15, 2011, 5:41 PM
Boy, one can only hope it ends up looking like this. If it does, I'm going to wish that facade had been used on all of the new WTC buildings...

I know, it's too bad there wasn't any way for forumers to send any feedback to the planners, if they'd known the opinion of that perhaps they would have changed the design process altogether and made hundreds more renders with much more interesting surfaces to please architecture fans even on an hourly basis.

NYguy
Apr 16, 2011, 12:50 PM
Not sure I understand. The renderings show ground-floor spaces that are thoroughly generic - featureless, flat, hard flooring; wide open, empty space; bland vacuum all around. Will the buildings have multiple ground-floor lobbies, with some of them being people-oriented and others being the abstract voids depicted earlier?

I think you are confusing the office lobby which faces the memorial with the other sides of the tower. The lower levels of the WTC towers will be dominated by retail.

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/788743.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/788744.jpg


This is an older rendering, but the building still has a similar concept...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/78077934/original.jpg



http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/34_11_Tower4_Rendering.jpg


And there will be a restaurant above the office lobby, overlooking the memorial...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/78077888/original.jpg



morrongiello (http://www.flickr.com/photos/morrongiello/5622070617/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5265/5622070617_af5b5e798d_b.jpg

The Grand Architect
Apr 16, 2011, 1:24 PM
Boy, one can only hope it ends up looking like this. If it does, I'm going to wish that facade had been used on all of the new WTC buildings...

I think one is just fine. We need a diversity of facade styles.

NYguy
Apr 16, 2011, 1:33 PM
More renderings of the lobby interiors, from wtc.com...


http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/1306485.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/1306490.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/1306489.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/1306487.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/1306488.jpg


Cortlandt Way, the thruway between towers 3 and 4...

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18602/1306486.jpg

Fabb
Apr 16, 2011, 8:59 PM
April 16

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4828/p1060843w.jpg

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1645/p1060845.jpg

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9262/p1060849.jpg

djlx2
Apr 16, 2011, 9:11 PM
All the work I've seen from them has been amazing. I wish other construction projects could come near it.

Big Towers
Apr 17, 2011, 12:21 AM
Cladding should be going up any day now. Also, thanks for showing us those old renderings, NYGuy. These give newcomers an idea of what to expect. Even though yers old, they are the only ones available at the moment.

NYguy
Apr 17, 2011, 2:49 PM
Cladding should be going up any day now. Also, thanks for showing us those old renderings, NYGuy. These give newcomers an idea of what to expect. Even though yers old, they are the only ones available at the moment.

It's a mix of old an new, the later ones being the newest (or current available from Silverstein).


Jonathan Hawkins (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhawkins/sets/72157626511283668/with/5625388140/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5301/5624786183_f71d1d43fd_b.jpg


Viewed from the Freedom Tower

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5624772427_abaff42573_b.jpg

Alliance
Apr 18, 2011, 3:33 PM
Well this is unfortunate...

New Delay at Ground Zero
Investors' Group Puts Brakes on $1.3 Billion Bond Sale for 4 World Trade Center
The Wall Street Journal

The effort to finance a new World Trade Center tower has hit a new snag.

A group of institutional investors has helped delay a planned $1.3 billion bond sale meant to finance construction of the 4 World Trade Center over concerns about how the deal is structured.

full article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704204604576269084123864532.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

NYguy
Apr 18, 2011, 6:01 PM
Well this is unfortunate...

I wouldn't get too concerned about that. That's been an ongoing story for the past few months. Construction will continue.

NYguy
Apr 18, 2011, 6:10 PM
April 17, 2011

Moving up the skyline chain...

1.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311564.jpg


2.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311565.jpg


3.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311566.jpg


4.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311567.jpg


5.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311568.jpg


6.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311569.jpg


7.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311570.jpg


8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311571.jpg


9.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311572.jpg


10. The "Manhattanization" of Manhattan

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311573.jpg


11.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311574.jpg


12.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311575.jpg


13.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311576.jpg


14.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311577.jpg


15.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311578.jpg


16.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311579.jpg


17.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311580.jpg


18.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311581.jpg


19.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311582.jpg


20.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311583.jpg


21.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311584.jpg


22.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311585.jpg


23.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311586.jpg


24.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311587.jpg

vandelay
Apr 18, 2011, 8:29 PM
The contrast between the silver T4 and black 1LP will be very nice.

Alliance
Apr 18, 2011, 8:49 PM
I wouldn't get too concerned about that. That's been an ongoing story for the past few months. Construction will continue.

I'm not. :cool: Of all 4 new towers though, I think this one has the most potential. I'm excited to see its curtain.

The Grand Architect
Apr 19, 2011, 12:32 AM
I wouldn't get too concerned about that. That's been an ongoing story for the past few months. Construction will continue.

You'll never know. It might slow down, but not stop.

NYguy
Apr 19, 2011, 1:48 PM
You'll never know. It might slow down, but not stop.

Well, if it stops, it won't be this year, so on with the show! This is surprisingly turning out to be one of my favorite towers (though I always knew I would like it).

NYguy
Apr 20, 2011, 3:19 PM
http://lowermanhattan.info/news/wtc_rebuilding_updates_presented_42074.aspx

WTC Rebuilding Updates Presented to CB1

April 13, 2011


Janno Lieber, Silverstein’s president of WTC development, reported that Tower 4 construction is on target for its December 2013 opening. Contractor Tishman Construction is now erecting one floor per week, and façade installation will start this spring.

The enormous lobby also is taking shape -- ready to stand at three times the size of the lobby of 7 WTC. In addition, below-grade fit-out at 4 WTC is “well-advanced,” said Lieber, noting that extensive mechanical and plumbing systems are now in place.

NYguy
Apr 20, 2011, 9:12 PM
Picture from wtc.com (April 7)

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1318654-T800600.jpg



http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18589/1318654.jpg

ESB/WTC fan
Apr 20, 2011, 11:38 PM
New Steel was added today, now up to the 23rd Floor. The top of the cranes look like there at the halfway point of 1 Liberty Plaza... That has me wondering, what floor will this tower surpass 1 Liberty Plaza?

NYguy
Apr 21, 2011, 1:39 PM
Throwback...

igloowho (http://www.flickr.com/photos/islandoftea/3652346523/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3652346523_299df24f2d_b.jpg



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3403/3653132378_cbb594855c_b.jpg

NYguy
Apr 22, 2011, 12:08 PM
ShakeFrog (http://www.flickr.com/photos/shakespier/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/5642576613_ae756703ef_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5229/5643131422_a700b87c80_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5643132180_b0757df422_b.jpg



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5643145390_f9a800688c_b.jpg

2-TOWERS
Apr 22, 2011, 6:52 PM
great shots.... we often over look this building due to its big brother

NYguy
Apr 23, 2011, 3:34 PM
^ Yeah, it won't be overlooked for long. It will have a while to loom over its neighbors until tower 3 catches and passes it. Even then, it will still dwarf everything else around it.


jan kraakman (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jankraakman/5645828539/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5187/5645828539_fafa65afdf_b.jpg

davidinasia
Apr 27, 2011, 12:10 PM
April 17, 2011

8.
http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18581/1311571.jpg



Great photos as usual NYGuy. T4 construction definitely seems to be picking up with the spring weather, which is welcome news.

I was surprised, though, about the reduced thickness of the vertical support pillar visible in the above photo. I mean, I'm sure they have done and redone all their load calculations, but considering the history of the site which we all know about, it just seems slightly reckless to not only put most of the load of the floors on a few columns in the center so you can have the clear views in the corner, but also, on top of that, to reduce the thickness of the concrete on - what is it - the 8th or 9th floor?

It just seems like a bit of an eyebrow-raiser. I'm not an engineer, but does that reduced thickness not create a relative weakness in the structure at that point? I understand the clear need for reinforcement at ground levels to protect against car bombs, and every structure in the new WTC has that, including this one. But as we all know, the columns that actually failed on 9/11 were not the ground level ones. So it is surprising to see this evident decision that the higher level columns can be thinner.

OneWorldTradeCenter
Apr 27, 2011, 2:13 PM
I didn't check out this for while now and they made great progress. I hope the cladding starts soon.

Rubicantes
Apr 29, 2011, 7:31 AM
I took some pictures this week :

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5668209537_44693ae2f1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668209537/)
WTC construction site 2. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668209537/) par WhiteFlowersFade (http://www.flickr.com/people/8125412@N04/), sur Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/5668774404_a5a417dc52.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668774404/)
Tower 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668774404/) par WhiteFlowersFade (http://www.flickr.com/people/8125412@N04/), sur Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5185/5668202207_6016f9dd15.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668202207/)
Tower 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668202207/) par WhiteFlowersFade (http://www.flickr.com/people/8125412@N04/), sur Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5221/5668769824_3809cfc18e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668769824/)
4 WTC (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668769824/) par WhiteFlowersFade (http://www.flickr.com/people/8125412@N04/), sur Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5668196437_759021e2c4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668196437/)
4 WTC (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8125412@N04/5668196437/) par WhiteFlowersFade (http://www.flickr.com/people/8125412@N04/), sur Flickr

RoldanTTLB
Apr 30, 2011, 3:06 PM
As for the load issue, apparently the core walls are >4ft thick. The concrete sheathing on the exterior columns is already above and beyond as far as protection goes. They could have done it with just steel.

LVND_W2NX
Apr 30, 2011, 9:07 PM
:previous: yes I wonder why that did not occur to them! :shakes fist:

Patapsco
May 1, 2011, 12:18 AM
taken April 30, 2011

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/5674144440_e5576ee6da_b.jpg

JACKinBeantown
May 1, 2011, 2:56 AM
Enjoy the view while it lasts... I've been there. Thanks for the photos.

STR
May 4, 2011, 1:21 AM
Apparently they've started installing facade panels on the south face of the building.

Also, the mockup of the tower facade, not the lobby as seen previously.
1a0nCaT88qQ