[DizzyEdge]

Bear with me as I only sort of have this topic formulated in my head as I write this. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on what will be the next full fledged 'Trendy District', as well as what might be the next up and coming ones to appear on the radar. By Trendy District, I mean an area non-local people go to not to necessarily go to one specific establishment, but to wander and just see what's happening. Some examples are in order, here are some examples:

'Trendy Districts':
-Kensington
-Inglewood
-Eau Claire/Prince's Island
-Stephen Ave
-17th Ave
-4th St SW (Mission)

Up & Coming:
-Olympic Plaza Cultural District (includes part of Stephen Ave)
-Chinatown
-1st Ave NW (Bridgeland)
-Marda Loop / Garrison Gate
-1st St SW
-11th st SW

On the Drawing board / has potential without a plan:
-Bowness Road (Bowness 'mainstreet')
-Bowness Road (Montgomery 'mainstreet')
-International Avenue
-Ramsay Exchange
-Stampede expansion?
-East Village
-16th Ave North
-20th Ave & 19th St NW
-Centre Street North (Esp between Centre St bridge and 16th Ave)
-11th Avenue SW
-12th Avenus SW
-others??

So which 'Up & Coming' do you think will hit the critical mass first, and which will be the next up and coming area? Also comments about whether items on my lists should be shifted or new areas added.

[DizzyEdge]

My thoughts:
Next District: I'm going to say 1st street, once the condos and the hotel arts strip-mall are completed the area should be pretty fine. Being connected to 17th ave and stephen ave, and being near 4th street in Mission helps a lot too. Bridgeland possibly close behind.
Next Up & Coming:
This is much much tougher. I think Internation Ave will take forever, as will Montgomery (even worse shape), Bowness.. too far away.
I'm going to say Stampede Expansion, IF it is indeed designed in a way to have year round commercial, which I'm not totally sure of.

[Boris2k7]

11th St... should that be reading 11th Ave?

16th Ave North is a contender but quite a bit into the future. So is Centre Street N. 14th Street (both NW and SW) is much closer than a lot of others. I think 8th Street SW also has some potential.

[DizzyEdge]

11th St... should that be reading 11th Ave?

16th Ave North is a contender but quite a bit into the future. So is Centre Street N. 14th Street (both NW and SW) is much closer than a lot of others. I think 8th Street SW also has some potential.

11th St SW, I was thinking the small strip by Good Earth, Michaelangelos, the Smoked meat shop, Kalamata grocers.. in a way it's more a sprout off of 17th, but with some more retail to make it a continuous strip from 17th ave to 10th Ave, it could become it's own district.

[Rusty van Reddick]

I'd say 11 St qualifies as a separate strip- in fact there were movements to christen it "connaught park" with its own BRZ a few years ago (If I remember correctly). Retail storefronts (such as they are) on 11 St side of Stella and the new development next to 11 St B and B can extend it a bit. Co-op is a waste of streetfront potential sadly.

For next big thing, I'd actually put The Bridges at the front of the queue. It's leapfrogged over, say, Marda Loop with well-integrated streetfront retail and will only improve, and not (as with Marda Loop) in the distant future.

11th Ave SW between 1 St and as far west as 14 St is just ready to burst- great mix of uses, increasingly good restaurants (Casbah, Blowfish Sushi, Red Door), and now lots of new condos- with far more interesting architecture and storefronts than, say, 17th, I can see it really booming.

I'd also look forward to more developments on Edmonton Trail and on Centre St N.

[Policy Wonk]

Shouldn't Garisson Woods make the current list?

[DizzyEdge]

I'd say 11 St qualifies as a separate strip- in fact there were movements to christen it "connaught park" with its own BRZ a few years ago (If I remember correctly). Retail storefronts (such as they are) on 11 St side of Stella and the new development next to 11 St B and B can extend it a bit. Co-op is a waste of streetfront potential sadly.

For next big thing, I'd actually put The Bridges at the front of the queue. It's leapfrogged over, say, Marda Loop with well-integrated streetfront retail and will only improve, and not (as with Marda Loop) in the distant future.

11th Ave SW between 1 St and as far west as 14 St is just ready to burst- great mix of uses, increasingly good restaurants (Casbah, Blowfish Sushi, Red Door), and now lots of new condos- with far more interesting architecture and storefronts than, say, 17th, I can see it really booming.

I'd also look forward to more developments on Edmonton Trail and on Centre St N.

I can agree with that, I think that the Bridges will get to a point where I might make a trip to wander the area sooner than Marda Loop.

Another missed opportunity with 11 St is they should have put some retail 11 St frontage on the townhousing at the south west corner of 11th st and 15th ave.

[DizzyEdge]

Shouldn't Garisson Woods make the current list?

If you mean the retail on Garrison Gate, I was including that as part of Marda Loop, I'll change it to include both.

[Surrealplaces]

Bridgeland is without a doubt moving at the quickest pace.

11th street, will be an up and coming street. Even these days it's busy with foot traffic between the west end and 17th ave. It crosses the tracks at grade, so it's a nice pedestrian journey.

Once that fair sized project (can't remember the name) in Marda loop is done, it should start transforming the area into a different level.

[Champion3]

Silverado.

[toddburns]

9 posts and NOT ONE person said 17 ave se raddison /forest lawn?

thats a BRZ and is very good place to INVEST right now. starbucks, brand new sobeys, and some trendy clubs.

[DizzyEdge]

17th ave SE is 'International Avenue', it's in the list

[Rusty van Reddick]

^OP mentioned International Ave. I love a lot of things there but I doubt it's "next."

[DizzyEdge]

My understanding is the general consensus is that for it to 'start', actual redevelopment of the buildings need to happen, and as far as I can tell that hasn't started yet.

[toddburns]

My understanding is the general consensus is that for it to 'start', actual redevelopment of the buildings need to happen, and as far as I can tell that hasn't started yet.

it sure has, my in law has the approval from CERA for a second cup in raddison heights, he had to basically bid since so many people where already trying to open one up in the same area, its very intese pre screening process. TD is building a brand new branch, ATB has already done so, ZR auto is there, theres also an upscale resturant being bult at 3012 17 ave se

[Boris2k7]

^ Yeah, but by those standards you could say the same for Macleod Trail...

[DizzyEdge]

it sure has, my in law has the approval from CERA for a second cup in raddison heights, he had to basically bid since so many people where already trying to open one up in the same area, its very intese pre screening process. TD is building a brand new branch, ATB has already done so, ZR auto is there, theres also an upscale resturant being bult at 3012 17 ave se

One problem with 17th se, is it's sooo long. and like Boris said, it has more of a Macleod Trail feel than say a Kensington or Inglewood... I think what they need to do (and perhaps they have already started this), is pick about .. 2-3 blocks, and redevelop the shit out of them, and then once those 3 blocks become 'the new international avenue', they can slowly work their way east and west of that.
Maybe I should take a drive down 17th tonight, I'm curious to check out these new developments.

[freeweed]

TUSCANY!

*cough*

*crickets*

[DizzyEdge]

Oh shoot, I forgot to put Tuscany in the list.

Oh shoot, I forgot again.

[krazycanuck]

I think centre street N. from the bridge all the way up to 32nd ave. is going to see alot of densification over the next 10-15 years. There's quite a few smaller projects that are just about to get under construction and alot of single family dwellings that are falling into disrepair on huge lots.

[Boris2k7]

Oh, here's another one: Edmonton Trail. Already a bit going on.

11th Ave deserves to be up there too. Maybe 12th as well?

[DizzyEdge]

In a way I'm trying to picky.. although there are things of interest on 12th ave, or 11th ave.. or Edm Trail.. does anyone actually say "hey let's go hang out on 11th ave today"..I'm trying to think of 'districts' where the area is the destination. I'm not sure if that makes any sense.

[Boris2k7]

^ That makes sense, but by the same criteria, do you see someone saying "let's go hang out on 1st St/Centre St/16th Ave?"

[DizzyEdge]

In a way it's tricky, as just about every shopping mall would qualify.. ugh

[DizzyEdge]

^ That makes sense, but by the same criteria, do you see someone saying "let's go hang out on 1st St/Centre St/16th Ave?"

Ok you win :P

[Boris2k7]

^ That is true as well. And I do hear "let's hang out at Chinook" far more than I hear "let's hang out on 17th." I know, sad world.

EDIT: LOL, I originally put "hand out" on 17th instead of "hang out"

[DizzyEdge]

Hand out might be closer to reality.

I agreed what you said earlier about 17th ave SE having a Macleod trail feel, as does most of 16th ave NW to be honest, it's hard to say where to start, although with 16th ave the intersection of 16th and centre would be a good start.

One thing doing this exercise has made me realize: so much is location location location. Might Marda loop be a great area? sure, but areas like 17th sw, 4th st sw, 1st st sw, 11 st sw, etc are sure helped by being within walking distance of each other.

Bowness.. well Bowness is it's own unique beast.

[Riise]

Up & Coming:
-Olympic Plaza Cultural District (includes part of Stephen Ave)
-Chinatown
-1st Ave NW (Bridgeland)
-Marda Loop / Garrison Gate
-1st St SW
-11th st SW

The Bridges is actually located in the N.E., and it would be my choice for which area is headed towards becoming the next trendy district. However, I think Centre Street North has much more potential. A lot of it is already built out and I think with a few additions and modifications the area could really start to blossom. The corridor currently has a density greater than the surrounding area and I can seeing it increasing organically to a medium density corridor with a few high-density highrise condos. The corner of 16th and Centre Street could very well become the intersection of two of Calgary's finest streets/boulevards, and well patronized tram routes...

[Bassic Lab]

Hand out might be closer to reality.

I agreed what you said earlier about 17th ave SE having a Macleod trail feel, as does most of 16th ave NW to be honest, it's hard to say where to start, although with 16th ave the intersection of 16th and centre would be a good start.

One thing doing this exercise has made me realize: so much is location location location. Might Marda loop be a great area? sure, but areas like 17th sw, 4th st sw, 1st st sw, 11 st sw, etc are sure helped by being within walking distance of each other.

Bowness.. well Bowness is it's own unique beast.

You've got a point about Marda Loop's distance from other areas but the situation could be improved by extending the retail zone on 33 Ave east to 14th Street and trying to turn 14th into a retail strip. Of course that would probaboly take decades to really materialize, but by that time it could really tie every thing in together much better. The effect of that new development with the grocery store and condos right on the strip could really mean alot, if it is a one off the are could languish, if on the other hand it sparks more development then the area could really take off.

Really I'd take a couple places off of the made it list and put them in the potential. Inglewood is one example, 9th Ave is a nice place but you just don't see the people there like you do one 17th or Stephen's. There are also a number of vacant lots that really need to be filled in. The SE LRT should really help and I could see the place really taking off in the near future but it just isn't there yet. So I'd place it as the next "trendy" district.

The competition is some of the areas north of the river, Edmonton Trail and Centre Street in particular. They seem much further behind but are actually seeing the neccasary redevelopment while 9th Ave is pretty stagnant for the time being.

International Ave and 16th Ave really do have Macleod Trail feels and I'm not sure if either will see the kind of redevelopment that would be needed to turn them into places where the pedestrian can really thrive.

[DizzyEdge]

You've got a point about Marda Loop's distance from other areas but the situation could be improved by extending the retail zone on 33 Ave east to 14th Street and trying to turn 14th into a retail strip. Of course that would probaboly take decades to really materialize, but by that time it could really tie every thing in together much better. The effect of that new development with the grocery store and condos right on the strip could really mean alot, if it is a one off the are could languish, if on the other hand it sparks more development then the area could really take off.


People have been talking about street cars lately, I've often thought a cool route would be a Marda Loop->Beltline->downtown->Inglewood line, which would improve Marda Loop's chances without all the extra redevelopment.



Really I'd take a couple places off of the made it list and put them in the potential. Inglewood is one example, 9th Ave is a nice place but you just don't see the people there like you do one 17th or Stephen's. There are also a number of vacant lots that really need to be filled in. The SE LRT should really help and I could see the place really taking off in the near future but it just isn't there yet. So I'd place it as the next "trendy" district.


Yeah I was on the fence with Inglewood, it's not as much a destination as Kensington/Stephen Ave/17th ave/4th st, but it's big enough that it has more critcal mass than Marda Loop, there's enough stuff to do down there to keep one busy for a couple of hours.


The competition is some of the areas north of the river, Edmonton Trail and Centre Street in particular. They seem much further behind but are actually seeing the neccasary redevelopment while 9th Ave is pretty stagnant for the time being.


Very true, although Inglewood has enough critical mass the squeak by, the smaller areas like Center/Bridgeland/etc are active, meaning they'll likely pass Inglewood in the near future.


International Ave and 16th Ave really do have Macleod Trail feels and I'm not sure if either will see the kind of redevelopment that would be needed to turn them into places where the pedestrian can really thrive.

Again, I think International Ave has to focus on a few blocks, possibly ones in good proximity locations (as far west as possible?) or in locations where the necessary redevelopment would be minimal.

I'm just waiting for someone to suggest that Macleod trail be converted to a pedestrian friendly walkable streetscape :)

[yads]

16th Ave will not be trendy until the trucks are taken off of that road. Who wants to go hang out on a street when you have a constant stream of light and heavy trucks whizzing by you?

[entheosfog]

16th Ave will not be trendy until the trucks are taken off of that road. Who wants to go hang out on a street when you have a constant stream of light and heavy trucks whizzing by you?

No kidding. It's a pedestrian's nightmare. If an area is to be trendy and the next 'it' area, it really has to be pedestrian friendly.

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah, I'd like to see any 'passing through' trucks moved to the future ring road, and any trucks that need to access areas serviced by 16th ave moved to the median lane.

[Distill3d]

If 16 Ave N becomes a trendy district before the transcanada is re routed, I'm going to shoot someone.

Personally, I see Quarry Park, the River Quay, Railtown (should it be built) and Mohagany as trendy districts...

[Me&You]

If 16 Ave N becomes a trendy district before the transcanada is re routed, I'm going to shoot someone.

Personally, I see Quarry Park, the River Quay, Railtown (should it be built) and Mohagany as trendy districts...

Mohagany? The furthest-out, south eastern suburb?

[Distill3d]

Mohagany? The furthest-out, south eastern suburb?

That would be the one. Isn't that supposedly the super dense suburb with the potential highrises going in?

[Me&You]

That would be the one. Isn't that supposedly the super dense suburb with the potential highrises going in?

I think there are parts that will be dense, but I can't come to call the furthest-out suburb the next "trendy district".

Long term, I think Ramsay will be the one...

[You Need A Thneed]

No kidding. It's a pedestrian's nightmare. If an area is to be trendy and the next 'it' area, it really has to be pedestrian friendly.

Wider Sidewalks will certainly help. Who likes walking where a semitruck cruises by 3 feet from you?

The redevelopment of 16th Avenue could take a while, but I think it'll turn in a nice boulevard. I'm glad they spent the extra money on extra landscaping.

[Boris2k7]

BTW, Macleod Trail really sucks walking down. Last May (aka. last time I spent a month looking for summer jobs) I walked from Chinatown to Fish Creek/Lacombe... man that pedestrian experience sucks. The only parts that are decent to walk on (but by no means urban or trendy) are around Heritage and the stretch from Cemetary Hill to Chinook. Otherwise, you get stuck in situations where there might be no sidewalk on one side of the street, you suddenly end up having to go really out of your way just to get over a crossing (you actually have to go down into Fish Creek Park to get across), or the road speeds up and you have cars flying past at 90km/hr.

[entheosfog]

BTW, Macleod Trail really sucks walking down. Last May (aka. last time I spent a month looking for summer jobs) I walked from Chinatown to Fish Creek/Lacombe... man that pedestrian experience sucks. The only parts that are decent to walk on (but by no means urban or trendy) are around Heritage and the stretch from Cemetary Hill to Chinook. Otherwise, you get stuck in situations where there might be no sidewalk on one side of the street, you suddenly end up having to go really out of your way just to get over a crossing (you actually have to go down into Fish Creek Park to get across), or the road speeds up and you have cars flying past at 90km/hr.

Wow. That's quite the walk. My girlfriend was asking me the other day if there is a continual sidewalk from 17th Ave SW to where she works in Millrise. She's thinking of biking to work if there's a transit strike. Doesn't the sidewalk end around Anderson?? How would you get around on foot/bike in that area I wonder...

Anyway, McLeod does suck for pedestrians. If you want to cross the street in some parts of McLeod by Heritage, it's quite a hike to the next set of lights. I can't see anywhere on McLeod being a trendy area south of 17th Ave SW. At least 16th Ave has some sort of potential. Maybe.

[Distill3d]

I think there are parts that will be dense, but I can't come to call the furthest-out suburb the next "trendy district".

Long term, I think Ramsay will be the one...

I'm sure that's what they said about Marda Loop at first too.

I think Mohagany has what its takes. And with the right route for transit, it could blossom. Maybe not into a Kengsington or 17 Ave SW, but into a Marda Loop or a Brittania Plaza-esque (Elbow and 44 Ave??) area.

[Boris2k7]

Wow. That's quite the walk. My girlfriend was asking me the other day if there is a continual sidewalk from 17th Ave SW to where she works in Millrise. She's thinking of biking to work if there's a transit strike. Doesn't the sidewalk end around Anderson?? How would you get around on foot/bike in that area I wonder...

My advice is to use Elbow Drive in that case. At least you get sidewalks for most of it. The sidewalk on the west side of Macleod ends a bit short of Southland drive and then reappears a short time later, on the east side it is there but quite narrow. But you still have to go down into the park if you want to cross.

[DizzyEdge]

And Elbow drive is much more scenic :tup:

[DizzyEdge]

BTW, Macleod Trail really sucks walking down. Last May (aka. last time I spent a month looking for summer jobs) I walked from Chinatown to Fish Creek/Lacombe... man that pedestrian experience sucks. The only parts that are decent to walk on (but by no means urban or trendy) are around Heritage and the stretch from Cemetary Hill to Chinook. Otherwise, you get stuck in situations where there might be no sidewalk on one side of the street, you suddenly end up having to go really out of your way just to get over a crossing (you actually have to go down into Fish Creek Park to get across), or the road speeds up and you have cars flying past at 90km/hr.

Yeah, Macleod trail pretty much sucks, the only area where you could even think of creating a 'cool' area without massive redevelopment is maybe around 49th avenue, where there's some 50s/60s buildings without parking in front. Think the Taj Mahal/Memory Express, and the hobby shop on the other side of Macleod. Honestly though, although having unbroken sidewalks would be nice, I think Macleod should stay car-friendly, and if possible transfer every other car friendly business there!

[entheosfog]

Yeah, Macleod trail pretty much sucks, the only area where you could even think of creating a 'cool' area without massive redevelopment is maybe around 49th avenue, where there's some 50s/60s buildings without parking in front. Think the Taj Mahal/Memory Express, and the hobby shop on the other side of Macleod. Honestly though, although having unbroken sidewalks would be nice, I think Macleod should stay car-friendly, and if possible transfer every other car friendly business there!

Macleod north of 17th Ave has hope at least!

[entheosfog]

And Elbow drive is much more scenic :tup:

That's fer sure. She sometimes walks home down Elbow from Chinook LRT to the Beltline. That one stretch of Elbow before you get to Mission has some of nicest old homes outside Mount Royal. So many blocks of old houses without a single infill.
Except that one area on the east side of Elbow Drive around 38 Ave where they clear-cut a whole bunch of old houses and the land has sat empty for almost a couple of years now :hell:

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah, Beltline Macleod is a different creature altogether, much better!
Even north of 25th ave has potential, especially once north-east Erlton gets redeveloped.

[DizzyEdge]

That's fer sure. She sometimes walks home down Elbow from Chinook LRT to the Beltline. That one stretch of Elbow before you get to Mission has some of nicest old homes outside Mount Royal. So many blocks of old houses without a single infill.
Except that one area on the east side of Elbow Drive around 38 Ave where they clear-cut a whole bunch of old houses and the land has sat empty for almost a couple of years now :hell:

A friend of a friend's folks owned that giant house that they sold for redevelopment.. at one time just north of there was another giant house that was also torn down to build smaller ones.. ironically it's in the Elbow park walking tour booklet as 'The most palatial house in EP (demolished 2000)'... <shakes head>

[entheosfog]

Yeah, Beltline Macleod is a different creature altogether, much better!
Even north of 25th ave has potential, especially once north-east Erlton gets redeveloped.


There's so much more potential with that stretch, though. But especially more so if the used car dealerships go...

[yads]

My girlfriend was asking me the other day if there is a continual sidewalk from 17th Ave SW to where she works in Millrise. She's thinking of biking to work if there's a transit strike.

I'm pretty sure biking on sidewalks is illegal.

[Rusty van Reddick]

I'm pretty sure biking on sidewalks is illegal.

It is. Adults should never bike on sidewalks unless the sidewalk doubles as a pathway.

[Me&You]

I'm sure that's what they said about Marda Loop at first too.

I think Mohagany has what its takes. And with the right route for transit, it could blossom. Maybe not into a Kengsington or 17 Ave SW, but into a Marda Loop or a Brittania Plaza-esque (Elbow and 44 Ave??) area.

I still can't agree with Mahogany. Even Marda Loop is being discounted in this discussion due to it's relative seclusion. If you consider Brittania Plaza (which is at 50th ave) "trendy", then the little strip in McKenzie Towne is "trendy"... I was thinking on a larger scale... and not just the retail/commercial side, but residential as well. One thing a new area can never duplicate is mature vegitation, which seems to bring alot to an area.

[Bassic Lab]

I still can't agree with Mahogany. Even Marda Loop is being discounted in this discussion due to it's relative seclusion. If you consider Brittania Plaza (which is at 50th ave) "trendy", then the little strip in McKenzie Towne is "trendy"... I was thinking on a larger scale... and not just the retail/commercial side, but residential as well. One thing a new area can never duplicate is mature vegitation, which seems to bring alot to an area.

Yeah, I really don't see the hip urban youth clamouring to live 200 blocks from downtown. The difference between Marda Loop and Mohagony will be extreme. Mohagony might end up like Mackenzie Towne if it is lucky, it will not be trendy. The density really just isn't that extreme, isn't is shy of 10 000 people per mile. Like the population of the Beltline in an area four times the size but without the office space or destinations. So fewer people and no ability to draw on the whole city to support services. It won't be much denser than Acadia, and no one talks about hanging out in Acadia. It would be less dense than Windsor Park (which has about 13 000 ppsm, well, half that but half the neighbourhood is a golf course so the populated half is like that) and Windsor Park isn't a destination despite the much more central location than Mohagony (though I'll readily admit that being across the street from the city's biggest mall probaboly doesn't help much).

Basicly Mohagony is a dense suburb, there will not be any thing urban about it and it will not be trendy.

[DizzyEdge]

I think for an area far from downtown to be 'trendy' it would have to have a) direct transit access, preferably LRT b) have lot of quite small sq ft retail, so that typical chain stores don't make it like every other retail area c) lots of rental housing, vs single family homes and condos, which will attract people who may have less use for a) and b)

[Boris2k7]

Stage 1 of Mahogany is at 10.5upa. Correct my math if it's wrong, but that's 6720 units/square mile. What is the average number of people per house nowadays? 2.3 or so? That's 15456 people/square mile.

Of course, that is half of what the Beltline population is right now. They say they are concentrating the density in a TOD, but I wouldn't have high hopes for a trendy strip. Suburban design in Calgary just isn't there yet...

[DizzyEdge]

Also doesn't help the odds that there's no really trendy area in Calgary more than 15-20 blocks from the downtown core.

That said, I would go somewhere further if a) lots of other people were too (people watching) b) it had retail or attractions that are different than other areas, or at least different than your typical shopping mall, c) it has ENOUGH of a) and especially b) that a long transit or car ride is worth it as there's enough to waste a couple of hours on.

[DizzyEdge]

What I think is interesting about these discussions is that in my mind it *is* possible to create from scratch an area as cool and trendy as ones that have just become that way organically, but it has to be done perfectly.

[You Need A Thneed]

It is. Adults should never bike on sidewalks unless the sidewalk doubles as a pathway.

Up until the day before you turn 16 years old, it's illegal to ride on the street, which means you ride on the sidewalk. The day you turn 16, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.

[Bassic Lab]

Stage 1 of Mahogany is at 10.5upa. Correct my math if it's wrong, but that's 6720 units/square mile. What is the average number of people per house nowadays? 2.3 or so? That's 15456 people/square mile.

Of course, that is half of what the Beltline population is right now. They say they are concentrating the density in a TOD, but I wouldn't have high hopes for a trendy strip. Suburban design in Calgary just isn't there yet...

Well, you've got the math right but I don't think you can just extrapolate for the whole community or use the average household size. Maybe of those units would likely be condos (which I beleive have like 1.something people per unit) and the numbers wouldn't apply to retail areas. Really there should be a requirement that all new community retail areas (like not power centers and malls, just little strip malls) be biult with residential above the retail. But in any case I wasn't going with the upa figures, I was going with what I roughly remembered the size of the community and its planned population was. It was something like 18 000 people in roughly one and a half miles. So I shouldn't have said shy of 10 000, its more than that, but not by too much, it is still between Acadia and Windsor Park in density, and neither are destinations.

[Tobyoby]

Also doesn't help the odds that there's no really trendy area in Calgary more than 15-20 blocks from the downtown core.

That said, I would go somewhere further if a) lots of other people were too (people watching) b) it had retail or attractions that are different than other areas, or at least different than your typical shopping mall, c) it has ENOUGH of a) and especially b) that a long transit or car ride is worth it as there's enough to waste a couple of hours on.

Marda Loop is farther than 20 blocks from the core.

[Tobyoby]

IMO Bridgeland is the place that will be the next trandy spot, even though it already is a pretty good spot, it will go through the biggest changes of them all.

[DizzyEdge]

Marda Loop is farther than 20 blocks from the core.

It is, but I wouldn't say it has quite arrive to be trendy distric status, although it is on it's way.

[entheosfog]

It is. Adults should never bike on sidewalks unless the sidewalk doubles as a pathway.

Probably not a good idea to ride a bike on MacLeod Trail or even parts of Elbow. Sometimes ya just got to break the rules. I'd rather do that than get hit by a car. Motorists here aren't exactly that sympathetic towards cyclists...

[entheosfog]

Marda Loop is farther than 20 blocks from the core.

33 blocks maybe?? ;)

[entheosfog]

IMO Bridgeland is the place that will be the next trandy spot, even though it already is a pretty good spot, it will go through the biggest changes of them all.

I agree. At least Bridgeland has old and new buildings and it is an old established community with a variety of demographics living in the area.

[entheosfog]

What I think is interesting about these discussions is that in my mind it *is* possible to create from scratch an area as cool and trendy as ones that have just become that way organically, but it has to be done perfectly.

Perfectly is right. I think the best areas in Calgary are trendy (or whatever word you want to use) because they have evolved over time. Many different businesses have come and gone over the years, new buildings have infilled where old ones used to be, there's still some old buildings etc etc. I don't think established neighbourhoods should be under-estimated and to try and create that from scratch with brand new buildings at the edge of the city seems like an almost impossible task. But maybe it's possible.

[DizzyEdge]

Older communities have the architecture part easier, as they can just fix up various buildings from diff eras, and maybe build a few modern ones, whereas a new area either needs to 'fake' old types of architecture (easy but kinda dumb), or just use new styles but vary them enough to get the same sort of eclectic look. Doable, but definately need some good designers.

EDIT: ... I actually have some ideas on how one could do it... but I may want to tweak then first.

[Riise]

I don't think established neighbourhoods should be under-estimated and to try and create that from scratch with brand new buildings at the edge of the city seems like an almost impossible task. But maybe it's possible.

This is why I believe Centre Street has a lot of potential to be a really trendy area. It has the history as well as the mix of styles, and needs an infusion of new buildings and life into some of the older ones. The Street should move into the next phase of its organic lifecycle, which would require some investment.

[DizzyEdge]

When I think of Centre street and potential, I mostly think about between 16th ave and the bridge.. there's a great strip mall on the east side of centre between 8th and 9th aves, built in the 1930's, along with a big hanging art deco neon sign (sadly not working).

Oh man, up on the hill there they should have gondolas that go down centre street right to the calgary tower...

..back to reality, one nice thing about that part of centre is that it's about 2/3's right-on-the-sidewalk buildings and just 1/3 buildings with parking in front, some of which is just a row or 2 of angle parking.

I also think Centre should have just as much 16th ave style beautification done, as it is the most blatant entrance to the heart of downtown.

[YYCguys]

I think The Bridges/1st Ave NE is definitely an up and coming trendy area that is moving along very swiftly. I also think East Village is on the radar and despite its setbacks, I am sure it will start happening very soon. Eau Claire/Chinatown is also set for a sooner rather than later designation as up and coming trendy district!

[DizzyEdge]

You bring up a good point about Eau Claire and Chinatown, they're so close together that some work where they join could benefit both

[Danma]

I agree that The Bridges is the next big area. Every month, it just gets better and better around there, with more good restaurants and businesses.

I also agree that 11 Ave is also improving, but it's not growing by leaps and bounds like Bridgeland.

I walked from the Beltline to the Stampede grounds last weekend and I have to say that the new condos between MacLeod trail N and S are going to absolutely transform that area. I think that you could possibly have some interesting stuff happen running N-S on MacLeod between 10th and 17th, and then all the new condos in the warehouse district (Arrive et al.) could revive this area. At the moment, though, walking by foot's still a "work in progress." The population explosion may force this area to change drastically into a pedestrian-friendly area, especially since most of the condos going up (Keynote, Arriva, etc) have main floor businesses.

Someone mentioned Ramsay, and... well... I work in Ramsay and while it's a quaint little neighbourhood, it's still too much of a dead end to really be terribly fashionable like Inglewood to the north. Once Ramsay Crossing is built, then let's talk again -- I could see Ramsay Crossing opening the doors for more interesting fashionable business either along Spiller or between it and the Crossroads market. However, it needs to surpass two problems: The NIMBYs and the general poor shape of the neighbourhood, what with a concrete factory and a chicken plant along the south edge of the neighbourhood. (PS: anyone notice the house at the top of the Elbow bridge retained the ice cream shop on the corner?)

Finally, I have a bone to pick about my own area... I live in Coventry Hills, a few blocks from Cardel Place. In general, there's some good things to say about this area, for a suburb -- there's some decent density, a good variety of businesses, lots of restaurants, schools, and a lake. It's central to the Northern Hills community and serves as a hub for the community.

However, my beef is that I feel that they wasted a golden opportunity. Sure, there's a lake, right next to business and condos, etc... but there's almost no businesses or foot-friendly access to the lake. There could be a variety of restaurants and activities that border the lake but instead there's only condos, and only one business -- the Italian restaurant next to Sobey's -- actually has a patio within eyeshot of it.

If I were in charge and had 20/20 hindsight, I would have made the lake, the condos and the businesses into a more integrated environment, where the path around the lake would be wide, there'd be businesses like cafes, restaurants, etc. facing onto the lake, and it would be integrated so that it would encourage foot traffic between the schools, Cardel Place, and the businesses along Country Hills. It could have been so good, but alas, most people don't even know there's a lake in the middle of that thing and the paths remained mostly unused. :( Given that the future C-Train station will possibly sit on the west side, next to the schools, this area could have been a far more friendly, interesting area but alas, it'll continue to be boring and car-oriented like the rest of the burbs :( I mean, yeah, it's a lot better than some areas *cough*Citadel*cough* but the potential is wasted on stupid condos with no street access... oh, and a ridiculous lighthouse gimmick!

[DizzyEdge]

...
Someone mentioned Ramsay, and... well... I work in Ramsay and while it's a quaint little neighbourhood, it's still too much of a dead end to really be terribly fashionable like Inglewood to the north. Once Ramsay Crossing is built, then let's talk again -- I could see Ramsay Crossing opening the doors for more interesting fashionable business either along Spiller or between it and the Crossroads market. However, it needs to surpass two problems: The NIMBYs and the general poor shape of the neighbourhood, what with a concrete factory and a chicken plant along the south edge of the neighbourhood. (PS: anyone notice the house at the top of the Elbow bridge retained the ice cream shop on the corner?)
...

One thing about Ramsay is it seems to have been designed purely as a residential neighbourhood. Other than the occasional corner store, there's no commercial area to speak of at all, just houses and a school, and in a way that makes sense being that 'Main street Calgary' was just a few mins away in the form of 9th avenue. I think where commercial could work for Ramsay is converting some of the industrial that surrounds it.. such as Ramsay Crossing, and such as 11th street. You *Could* do something on Spiller, but you'd have to clearcut a block or two of houses to do it, and I'm not sure if that cost would be worth it with other commercial and retail only a few mins away in Inglewood (and eventually Ramsay Crossing)

And yah I noticed the ice cream store, .. now I want DQ dammit

[Danma]

One thing about Ramsay is it seems to have been designed purely as a residential neighbourhood. Other than the occasional corner store, there's no commercial area to speak of at all, just houses and a school, and in a way that makes sense being that 'Main street Calgary' was just a few mins away in the form of 9th avenue. I think where commercial could work for Ramsay is converting some of the industrial that surrounds it.. such as Ramsay Crossing, and such as 11th street. You *Could* do something on Spiller, but you'd have to clearcut a block or two of houses to do it, and I'm not sure if that cost would be worth it with other commercial and retail only a few mins away in Inglewood (and eventually Ramsay Crossing)

And yah I noticed the ice cream store, .. now I want DQ dammit

Yeah, I have to agree with that. clearcutting on Spiller would raise the ire of the entire community so that wouldn't ever happen.

I work off of 11 street, and I walk underneath that damned train bridge from 19th street north to Inglewood regularly. The whole east side of 11 street is such a freaking mess, what with the rail yards, the polluted-and-fenced-off old garage with barrels of toxic sludge, used condoms and hobo poo in the fields and parking lots around the Ramsay Design Centre, burnt out buildings across from the Shamrock and just a general grubbiness and "no-mans-land" feel to it all. I just hate 11 street so much! It's just that much more frustrating because walking one block west takes you into the nice old neighbourhood of Ramsay proper, and walking north eventually gets you into the guts of Inglewood, so why is 11 street such a damned hellhole?!

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah, I have to agree with that. clearcutting on Spiller would raise the ire of the entire community so that wouldn't ever happen.

I work off of 11 street, and I walk underneath that damned train bridge from 19th street north to Inglewood regularly. The whole east side of 11 street is such a freaking mess, what with the rail yards, the polluted-and-fenced-off old garage with barrels of toxic sludge, used condoms and hobo poo in the fields and parking lots around the Ramsay Design Centre, burnt out buildings across from the Shamrock and just a general grubbiness and "no-mans-land" feel to it all. I just hate 11 street so much! It's just that much more frustrating because walking one block west takes you into the nice old neighbourhood of Ramsay proper, and walking north eventually gets you into the guts of Inglewood, so why is 11 street such a damned hellhole?!

The 2nd part of this link has some pics of said grubbyness
http://www.calgaryheritage.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=225

[Danma]

The 2nd part of this link has some pics of said grubbyness
http://www.calgaryheritage.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=225

Yeah. I work in K (Ramsay Design Centre), and we're surrounded by J, L and M.

J is apparently amazingly polluted which is why it hasn't been touched. Every year someone comes, checks the pollution, shakes their head and leaves again.

L isn't in bad shape. M is a real mess, though, especially the burnt out back portion and the fenced in yard on the south end full of trash and parts for demolition derby cars...

Across the street from L is a closed building that used to be a lawnmower and snowblower dealership, called the Power Center. It's currently abandoned with a barb wire fence. Neighbouring to the south is a dog groomers which has been trying to sell for quite a while, but it's still open it seems.

In general, the street is quite busy and isn't particularly pedestrian friendly. With some work, this area could be made into a trendy interesting extension of Inglewood but man... there's some real messes that need cleaning up.

On the bright side, the scary Tim Burton-esque Local Motive building behind the Ramsay Design Center on 20 Ave S is almost complete after what seems like 4 years of reno's...

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah. I work in K (Ramsay Design Centre), and we're surrounded by J, L and M.

J is apparently amazingly polluted which is why it hasn't been touched. Every year someone comes, checks the pollution, shakes their head and leaves again.

L isn't in bad shape. M is a real mess, though, especially the burnt out back portion and the fenced in yard on the south end full of trash and parts for demolition derby cars...

Across the street from L is a closed building that used to be a lawnmower and snowblower dealership, called the Power Center. It's currently abandoned with a barb wire fence. Neighbouring to the south is a dog groomers which has been trying to sell for quite a while, but it's still open it seems.

In general, the street is quite busy and isn't particularly pedestrian friendly. With some work, this area could be made into a trendy interesting extension of Inglewood but man... there's some real messes that need cleaning up.

On the bright side, the scary Tim Burton-esque Local Motive building behind the Ramsay Design Center on 20 Ave S is almost complete after what seems like 4 years of reno's...

I wonder if no one has done anything with M is because it appears the future SE LRT line will go right through the burnt out back end of it. Personally the front seems to just need a bit of work and some paint, it seems to be either in use or recently in use, so keep that and remove the back burnt out parts. The fact the front is usable seems to indicate there's some definate separation from the front and back portions of the building, perfect place to slice it in two.

Last time I saw that Local Motive building it was in the middle of construction, I should check that out this weekend.

[Danma]

Last time I saw that Local Motive building it was in the middle of construction, I should check that out this weekend.

They are just about to pour the parking lot, it appears. The exterior is basically complete. Weird, but complete!

[dubiousmike]

Centre Street's been mentioned, Bridgeland has been mentioned, I'll split the difference and say that the part of Edmonton Trail between the river and, say, 8 Avenue is going to become huge.

You've already got Diner Deluxe and Il Sogno drawing a city-wide crowd. You've got lots of eccentric weirdos, and lots of tasteful infill development going on. All the makings of a really neat neighbourhood.

[Zilla]

Richard White's picked up on this theme in today's Herald. Maybe he's reading the thread. Link to the posting on the CC page:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2816205&postcount=3613

[DizzyEdge]

They are just about to pour the parking lot, it appears. The exterior is basically complete. Weird, but complete!

I checked it out yesterday, I don't know, to be honest I don't really like it, I think the added on portions would have looked better if they were all glass.