[urbanscraper]

News & Rcord

Big project in city eyed

according to the Greensboro News& Record, A developer is considering four sites for a massive project in downtown Greensboro. Details will be revealed tommorrow but there is an indication that this could be a major high-rise proposal for downtown Greensboro. A member on another forum knows all about it and wont tell...he said "Greensboro you guys our going to be getting some BIG NEWS! tomorrow"

[James Bond Agent 007]

Ooo I can't wait.

Let's hope it's not a disappointment.

[urbanscraper]

Well im keeping my fingers crossed...but the way this forumer sounded...its a HUGE project as if its bigger than anything that been proposed for downtown up to this point. another observation I made is that the article states the developer is looking at four downtown sites. The reason why I think this could be a highrise proposal is because there are only just a few large foot print sites for massive lowrise developments. I know there arent four sites that size in downtown Greensboro and it was stated that the developer is looking at 4 sites downtown.

[Sulley]

i bet it's a new Wal*Mart!

[SouthSky]

^ I hope it's open 24 hours!

Just kidding guys. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing about this...

[urbanscraper]

The cat is finally out of the bag! An out of town developement company is looking at several sites in downtown Greensboro that would be the largest complex the center-city has ever seen! The complex would inlude a high-rise hotel, restaurants, entertainment venues, residential, office and retail space. some of the sites being considered are

1 directly next to First Horizon Ballpark behind left feild

2 the large Duke Power site next to the Childrens Museum

3 a site between Market and Friendly Streets

apparently this is a MAJOR project because the unnamed out of town developer is looking at a few other cities so this is not a done deal but based on the size and scope of this project, we could see more than one high-rise in this project. This would be a HUGE DEAL for downtown Greensboro. The entertainment venues could turn out being venues such as "The house of Blues" since this project is being considered for other cites.


Whisper of major project stirs city

GREENSBORO — An out-of-town development company is considering four sites downtown for an entertainment, shopping and residential complex that could be the largest ever in the center city.

The project, which is still in the discussion phase, could cost at least $50 million and top out at $150 million.

The development could include restaurants and entertainment venues; residential, office and retail space; and a high-rise hotel.

City officials and downtown leaders have been tight-lipped about the project because it could wind up in another city; the developer is said to be considering sites between Virginia and Florida.

"It's so early," said Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "It upsets me when people start talking about ... something that is extremely conceptual. We don't want to comment because it is so conceptual."

The developer has not been identified.

A decision could be made on the project within six months. It would then take a year to put the plans together.

So far, the developer has been shown six sites downtown. That list has been narrowed to four, only two of which have been identified:

* the Weaver Foundation property at Church Street and Friendly Avenue, plus land across Friendly owned by the city and Lincoln National Corp.;

* the former Bellemeade Village property next to First Horizon Park.

Some property owners apparently are unaware that their land is being considered.

"No one has been in contact with us," said Skip Moore, president of the Weaver Foundation, which owns the former Duke Power property at Church and Friendly. "If they want to build on our property, it is pretty early."

Efforts to reach Jim and Steve Jones, who own the 6-acre Bellemeade Village tract, were unsuccessful.

City officials have had little comment.

"All I can say is that there has been some interest in those areas," said City Manager Mitchell Johnson, referring to the Weaver property and the land across Friendly. "It is very exciting when you think about what the potential is for that area."

Johnson said he and a committee of area stakeholders had already been putting together a development plan for the downtown cultural district, an area that includes the city, Lincoln and Weaver properties.

The parcels cover about 8 acres.

Because of the project's scope, sources say, it would likely require some public money to make it work. Those incentives would primarily come in the form of improvements such as a parking deck, sidewalks and streets.

Sources say it is too early to know the amount of an incentive request.

They say no plans have been drawn or buildings designed. There's also no word on how many rooms the hotel might have or how tall it might be.

Those familiar with the project say the developer must decide if the project will work in Greensboro and specifically downtown.

"The project here is one that I think can be extremely exciting," Gibbs said. "(But) it's extremely early .... It's like the first mile of a marathon. We are at the easy mile."

Multimillion dollar projects are becoming more frequent downtown.

Developer Roy Carroll is moving ahead with a $37 million rehab of the former Wachovia building on North Elm Street.

And developer John Kavanagh and Brown Investment Properties plan to spend $42 million on a housing, office and retail project in an area bounded by Summit Avenue, Lindsay Street and Murrow Boulevard.

[urbanscraper]

I've been thinking.....since other cities are being considered for this, it leads me to believe that this could be some kind of "themed" urban development that could be designed to attract tourists which combines residential and office. Entertainment seems to be a big part of the project and "Florida" was mentioned as a site. It wouldnt make sense for this "development company" to scout for cities throughout the south for merely a hotel/residential development.......ummmmm I wonder. Could this project be much bigger in nature than we realize? The "development company" appears to be showing HIGH interest in downtown Greensboro because its narrowed down sites. I have a few ideas running around in my head what this could really be because I dont think we've been told the whole story yet. I wont mentioned them but and if im correct, this is HUGE for not just downtown but for Greensboro and would REALLY help increase downtown develpment

[urbanscraper]

Greensboro may be the front runner because I have not heard anything like this mentioned on news media from other southern cities. I just have a strange feeling this is really going to be a HUGE project, and not just in physical size. The paper said "The development company has to decide wether this will work in Greensboro", not just downtown. That tells me its not just a hotel and condos. This gives us a hint what the city could be dealing with here.

[zodiac]

Put this development in downtown Winston-Salem!!!

[urbanscraper]

Potential downtown Greensboro megaproject may require city participation

The Business Journal of the Greater Triad Area
May 3, 2007
by Matt Harrington

A developer from Florida is considering Greensboro as a possible location for a mixed-use project that could range in value from $50 million to $150 million, but pulling together a site large enough and at a cost-effective price could be a challenge, said Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro Inc.

Gibbs said the developer, who he declined to identify, is looking at a project that could span anywhere between 2 acres and 12 acres, and possibly include residential, office and entertainment amenities. If it's on the larger side, finding an area for the project will consist of assembling property from multiple landowners, Gibbs said.


"We're competing with a lot of other (cities) for it," he said. "It's going to come down to can we assemble land at an equitable price and in a reasonable time period and is there good cooperation."

That cooperation is likely to include a request for financial participation from the city, likely in the form of a parking deck or similar infrastructure-related component.

Gibbs declined to provide other details on the potential projects, including possible sites. The Jones brothers own about 6 acres where they had planned Bellemeade Village, a mixed-use development, until those plans fell apart. The Weaver Foundation owns about 4 acres downtown at the former Duke Energy site. Gibbs said he has not talked with the Jones brothers or representatives of the Weaver Foundation about the potential project.

"There are four assemblages that could potentially work," Gibbs said. "Now we're trying to see what it would take to put them together. It's potentially a very big project, but there's still a lot to do."

Other states being considered by the developer are Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, Gibbs said.

Gibbs said the developer could make a decision in about three months.

I think its a "Downtown Disney District"

[urbanscraper]

for some reason top tier cities arent being look at first. Id expect something like this in Charlotte.

[HSVTiger]

There is a project similar to what this sounds like planned for downtown
Huntsville on an 18 acre site. Announcements and construction set to begin within a couple of months. 2 hotels, condo/apartments/ retail entertainment venues, several parking decks etc.

[x.man]

Who said this has anything to do with Greenville? The scale of the two projects is totally different. $2.4 billion versus $150 million.

This sounds strange to me. The fact that the project could "wind up in another city" is odd. What kind of downtown developer shops cities between Florida and Virginia looking to place a major downtown project? Seems like they are looking for the highest bidder for subsidies to me. Doesn't knowledge of the local market count for anything? They haven't even spoken to land owners yet...and they are already talking about needing subsidies?

I understand downtown Greensboro's residential development is not doing very well. Kavanaugh has shelved additional units on Bellemeade Street, and moved their salesperson elsewhere. Arbor House has nearly sold out of parking spaces, so any sales from here out will have diminished parking with no on-street parking for cars. 411 West has numerous Lease and Sale signs in its windows, and Carroll is not saying how sales are going for his project at all. Bob Isner in Southside is down and out about lagging sales, and Bellemeade Village totally fell apart. The city has a lot of downtown residential units to sell before it moved forward on a major project. Commercial development is level, at best. A few recently vacated storefronts are on South Elm Street. Numbers of downtown office workers is still reeling from the loss of 500 jobs from Guiford Social Service's move to make way for the ballpark...except for the old Wachovia Building being taken off-market.

Although the idea of a big investment sounds nice, this just seems very odd to me.:shrug:

[KB0679]

for some reason top tier cities arent being look at first. Id expect something like this in Charlotte.

That's because a lot of larger cities already have something like this under construction or completed already, such as EpiCentre in Charlotte, Atlantic Station in Atlanta, Victory Park in Dallas, etc.

[Coin]

Wow. Look, I know it's exciting to imagine a a project like this, but clearly this project is a LONG way from becoming a reality. The article says as much. They are shopping the idea around from Virginia to Florida??? That's weird enough to begin with. But even once they choose a location, the specifics of the project haven't even been determined. A price tag of $50 million to $150 million? There's a pretty big difference between $50 million and $150 million. We're basically talking about a developer who is putting out feelers around the southeast to see which city is most willing to shell out some public money to make this project happen. They'll worry about the finer details later.

I thought this line was the most relevant...

"It's so early," said Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "It upsets me when people start talking about ... something that is extremely conceptual. We don't want to comment because it is so conceptual."

[urbanscraper]

video link

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=3104683&version=1&locale=EN-US

Greensboro Abuzz About Downtown 'Project X'

Hints of a multi-use residential and shopping complex.

Greensboro
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By ANGELA RODRIGUEZ
FOX8 News
GREENSBORO, N.C. (WGHP) -- For now, we'll call it Project X. Greensboro city officials said they have several big projects in the works, but will not confirm a report in the Greensboro News & Record that an out-of-town developer is looking at four downtown sites to build a multi-use residential, shopping and entertainment complex.

Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro, Inc. said the plans are too early to even discuss. "Something this big just takes so long to put the pieces together."

Gibbs did drop a few hints. He said his group has had discussions about hotels. "I think it's that entertainment complex that has mixture of entertainment for families, children for singles."

Developer Roy Carroll said he has heard a lot of rumors about Project X.

The question is what does downtown Greensboro need?

Suggestions from people we talked with Thursday range from more restaurants, a movie theater and grocery stores downtown.

"It'd be cool if it had big name merchandise shops downtown like The Gap," said Steve Kelly, who works downtown.

It's still not clear if Greensboro can land the mystery project, but Gibbs said there is land available. "If one in five projects I talk about come about, I'm batting well," said Gibbs.

Gibbs did say Project X is the biggest deal he's ever been associated with. Gibbs also said hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent conducting studies to see if a city could sustain something as big as Project X.

[urbanscraper]

According to sources this project dwarfs the Epic Centre in Charlotte (not neccissarily in height but tower(s) would be involved) and Greensboro IS indeed the frontrunner for this downtown project. According to sources Greensboro is a good location because of its central loction between Charlotte and Raleigh and that this would be MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT. Location and history seems to be the big factor for Greensboro's chances. quite frankly it seems very surreal that Greensboro would be considered for such a project.

[urbanscraper]

WOW THIS NEWS JUST KEEPS GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER. The developer could also include an unexpected bonus in this project and that is The ACC HALL OF CHAMPIONS & MUSEUM


Downtown developer could build Atlantic Coast Conference Hall of Fame


Print Email this Article By Donald W. Patterson
Staff Writer

ADVERTISEMENT
GREENSBORO — A potential $150 million downtown development could include an unexpected bonus — a possible site for the Atlantic Coast Conference Hall of Champions.

Downtown officials involved in talks with the unidentified development company said the firm would consider including space for the $23 million ACC museum in its plans — if the project gets built.

"You have a bunch of 'ifs' there," said Ray Gibbs, the president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "If (the developer) would come to Greensboro; if they would build this project; if the ACC (museum) would come there. ... If you factor them together, it's a gigantic 'if.'"

The project, which is still in the discussion phase, could include a mix of restaurants and entertainment venues; office, residential and retail spaces; a high-rise hotel; and the museum.

"I think the ACC museum would be a fine complement to this project," Gibbs said. "If the museum did come about, I feel that downtown should be highly considered for its location."

To date, groups pushing for the museum — an interactive complex that would cover ACC sports — have focused their attention on the Canada Dry bottling plant next to the Greensboro Coliseum complex.

The City Council will discuss possible acquisition of the property Tuesday.

The Canada Dry site is owned by Susan Robinson, the wife of News & Record Editor John Robinson, and her brothers, W. Hardy Spence and Royall Spence III.

Museum backers note that a consultant's study rejected several downtown sites and determined that a location near the coliseum would be best for the hall.

They also say rehabbing the bottling plant would boost the city's efforts to revitalize High Point Road, which runs past the site.

Even so, Marc Bush, the president of the Greensboro Sports Commission, says a location in the proposed downtown development should get some consideration.

"You never close yourself out to ideas or opportunities," Bush said. "You have got to be flexible. But I hope before six months our train has already left the station."

In addition, others say, the museum would have no money to lease space from a private developer.

Downtown leaders say they want to see the museum somewhere in the center city, even if the proposed development doesn't materialize.

"Everybody I know (downtown) talks about it," said Milton Kern, a center city developer. "They are 100 percent behind it."

Kern and others think a downtown location would produce more economic spin-off than a site near the interstate.

They say that visitors who come downtown are more likely to visit other attractions in the center city and perhaps stay overnight.

"It gives us an opportunity to show off our downtown," said Roy Carroll, who is converting the former Wachovia Tower on North Elm Street into a condo-office-restaurant complex. "We already have some excellent cultural venues downtown."

Gibbs says putting the museum in a new complex downtown comes with lots of questions.

"Who would be the owner? Who would be the operator? How would it be funded?" he said. "I don't know any of those things."

The development company is considering four sites downtown, plus an unknown number in other cities.

But Gibbs thinks the project, which could range from $50 million to $150 million, is Greensboro's to lose.

"I think we have a good chance," Gibbs said. "But if we have trouble putting the land together or if the (governmental) approval processes are too tedious or take too long, I think they will go somewhere else.

"They would like to move as quickly as they can. ... (But) I think they want to do something here."

[x.man]

"MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT"

urban, I dub you the king of hype!

If only Bellemeade Village, the ACC Museum, the new Holiday Inn off Wendover, the Triad Tower, the National Association of CPAs tower, the Lincoln Financial job expansion, and all the other no-goes had the same coverage! Maybe they can all be "spinned" back into reality.

[KB0679]

^I don't think all of those deserve the same coverage, especially Triad Tower.

[winston]

Urbanscraper, aka citiboi on urban planet ,is definatly the king of hype. No matter the project, if it is in Greensboro he puts his own positive spin on it. I think these rumors, I will not even call it a project yet, is someones pipe dream, given the current state of the ecomony of Greensboro.

[KB0679]

^What would that current state be?

[urbanscraper]

Urbanscraper, aka citiboi on urban planet ,is definatly the king of hype. No matter the project, if it is in Greensboro he puts his own positive spin on it. I think these rumors, I will not even call it a project yet, is someones pipe dream, given the current state of the ecomony of Greensboro.


LOL Natural Greensboro envy from a twin city native ;) as for state of economy...numbers are improving. Lincoln National is adding more jobs. Honda Aircraft Company is building its world headquarters in Greensboro along with a jet manufacturin g plant with high paying jobs. The A&T/UNCG reserch parks is in the works along with a nanotech college. Id say Greensboro is on the rebound now. Certainly this developer wouldnt even consider Greensboro if he or they didnt think the city could support it. But yes there are some obsticles but Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greeensboro, Inc says Greensboro has a good chance for this development. we are just in the discussion phase at this point. But it could happen and it may not happen. we will find out :)

[urbanscraper]

"MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT"

urban, I dub you the king of hype!

If only Bellemeade Village, the ACC Museum, the new Holiday Inn off Wendover, the Triad Tower, the National Association of CPAs tower, the Lincoln Financial job expansion, and all the other no-goes had the same coverage! Maybe they can all be "spinned" back into reality.

im not really hyping this project. only relaying info thats coming from sources. A sources that knows the details of the project has said it would be a MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT. Thats if the scaled up version is built. Supposedly there are three plans and all vary in height. One is the scaled down version. Another plan DWARFS Epicentre in uptown Charlotte (not talking about height) Its that plan that has been said would be a MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT. According to this source, city leaders are fighting over wether this development should get some public funding and there is an element that doesnt want this in Greensboro because of the major effect it would have on the city. However Ray Gibbs did say mainly the challenge was piecing all the properties together to make the development happen and he also stated if the political process among city leaders is too tedious and timely the development would go to one of the cities in the other states but Ray Gibbs said we have a good chance and that this development company wants to do something in downtown Greensboro. Among Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Virginia, Greensboro, NC is the frontrunner for this MAJOR project. It has been said that Greensboro's "history" and central location between two other major markets (Charlotte and Raleigh) are big factors in the developers decision in possibally put this in Greensboro. This project seems to be more secret than the Dell Deal which brought a computer factory to Winston-Salem. I do know that Ray Gibbs of Downtown Greensboro Inc, said hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of studies were done to see if Greensboro could sustain such a project which says to me this project is something that would be built in a major US market. He also said some of the developements in this project could easily exceed $100 million dollars which is a clear indicator how HUGE this project really is. The whole Bellemeade Village proposal didnt even add up to $100 million and Ray Gibbs is saying just one of the developments alone in this project could exceed $100 million. This is not Hype but its also not a done deal this will happen in Greensboro. The obstacles have to be over come.

So no im not hyping this only telling you what sources that know all about this are saying. The known facts back that up. The source said that even the scaled down version of the project would be a big boon for the city.

The facts that we do know about the project is that it would include:

- a highrise hotel or hotels

- retail/shopping

- entertainement venues

- office

- residential

- restaurants

Now if this project is as big in nature as source say, you can speculate what kind of things can happen in this project. Ray Gibbs says its an entertainment complex with attractions for families, children and singles. The project could include a multiplex theater or IMAX. Maybe even venues such as The House of Blues or Hard Rock Cafe' Those would seem to fit the description of what could be in this development. There could even be some potential major retail stores involved...who knows but you can expect these kind of things if a study has to be done to see if Greensboro can sustain a development like this. With the information we do have, we can only see pieces of the puzzle. But that doesnt tell us what the whole picture is.

[x.man]

hype /haɪp/ verb, hyped, hyp·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; 2. to stimulate, excite, or agitate: He was hyped at the thought of the Shoppes at Disney Greensboro World Headquarters ACC SuperTower Complex.

[urbanscraper]

hype /haɪp/ verb, hyped, hyp·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; 2. to stimulate, excite, or agitate: He was hyped at the thought of the Shoppes at Disney Greensboro World Headquarters ACC SuperTower Complex.

huh?

[urbanscraper]

one other note from a source. even the scaled down small version of this mystery project would be the size of Charlotte's future premier entertainment complex EpiCentre. This sucker is said to be bigger than EpiCentre and Peabody Place (Memphis) combined. The source say the media is far from knowing all the details of this MEGA project for downtown Greensboro. What we do know aint even the half of it. This would be the big grand daddy of all downtown projects in Greensboro. Is wasnt that long ago when the ballpark was the biggest development to be built in downtown Greensboro. Now it looks like we have a "potential" project that dwarfs that.

[Coin]

one other note from a source. even the scaled down small version of this mystery project would be the size of Charlotte's future premier entertainment complex EpiCentre. This sucker is said to be bigger than EpiCentre and Peabody Place (Memphis) combined. The source say the media is far from knowing all the details of this MEGA project for downtown Greensboro. What we do know aint even the half of it. This would be the big grand daddy of all downtown projects in Greensboro. Is wasnt that long ago when the ballpark was the biggest development to be built in downtown Greensboro. Now it looks like we have a "potential" project that dwarfs that.

Maybe I'm alone on this one but I never thought of EpiCentre as being a "premier entertainment complex"...I mean, it's a nice development that will take up a city block that was nothing more than a boarded up building beforehand, but the real headline grabber with EpiCentre was the 50-story condo tower that was to be built on it, known as Two Ten Trade. It'll be a terrific amenity to Uptown, but I guess I just never thought of it as the "premier entertainment complex" you've described it as.

[urbanscraper]

Maybe I'm alone on this one but I never thought of EpiCentre as being a "premier entertainment complex"...I mean, it's a nice development that will take up a city block that was nothing more than a boarded up building beforehand, but the real headline grabber with EpiCentre was the 50-story condo tower that was to be built on it, known as Two Ten Trade. It'll be a terrific amenity to Uptown, but I guess I just never thought of it as the "premier entertainment complex" you've described it as.

actually I didnt describe it that way. The builders of the project did and they would be correct as far as Charlotte is concerned. There is no other entertainment complex like that that Im aware of in uptown Charlotte.

[TwinCity]

how can a $150 million development dwarf Epicenter and the Peabody combined?


now im really anxious to see these plans.

[Coin]

From Ghazi's website:

"To be built at the site of Charlotte's Old Convention Center, the EpiCentre will be on one of the largest city blocks in Uptown Charlotte. The project is in the heart of America's 2nd largest banking city and is caddie-corner to both Wachovia's and Bank of America's headquarters. This development will alter the face of Uptown and further invigorate an already rapidly-growing market in Charlotte. Our development will include an exciting new entertainment/retail development along with over 400 luxury residential units and together will stand as the second-tallest tower in Uptown Charlotte. The EpiCentre's public areas and amenities package will raise the bar for all developments in this region."

Now maybe numbers have changed, but last I heard the Epicentre project has a pricetag of $180 million, and included the 400-unit, 49-story tower and nearly 300,000 square feet of street-level entertainment/retail space. I still haven't seen details of the Greensboro project that indicate it will be bigger than this, let alone Epicentre and Peabody combined.

[x.man]

Now maybe numbers have changed, but last I heard the Epicentre project has a pricetag of $180 million, and included the 400-unit, 49-story tower and nearly 300,000 square feet of street-level entertainment/retail space. I still haven't seen details of the Greensboro project that indicate it will be bigger than this, let alone Epicentre and Peabody combined.

It will be the biggest project ever built in North Carolina, both past, present and future, and will single-handedly transform Greensboro to world class status overnight in a way that has never been done in the history of human civilization, nor ever will.:rolleyes:

[TwinCity]

^my point exactly. my second statement was a bit of sarcasm. :haha:

if this development is $50 million or 150 million, it would still be great for Greensboro and continue the momentum in downtown development.

all of these extreme adjectives ruins the excitement though, especially when it comes to the support of other city reps. Triad changing? dwarfing other huge projects in Memphis and Charlotte? Hard Rock Cafe? Downtown Disney? Come on now...$150 million couldnt possibly do all of that.

[TwinCity]

actually I didnt describe it that way. The builders of the project did and they would be correct as far as Charlotte is concerned. There is no other entertainment complex like that that Im aware of in uptown Charlotte.

is your source this week's business journal?

[urbanscraper]

^my point exactly. my second statement was a bit of sarcasm. :haha:

if this development is $50 million or 150 million, it would still be great for Greensboro and continue the momentum in downtown development.

all of these extreme adjectives ruins the excitement though, especially when it comes to the support of other city reps. Triad changing? dwarfing other huge projects in Memphis and Charlotte? Hard Rock Cafe? Downtown Disney? Come on now...$150 million couldnt possibly do all of that.

Those decriptions are coming from people who know whats going on.....you and I DONT know whats going on. and yes someone who knows the details said this could be "Triad changing" you are putting words in my mouth, the dwarfing description was said by someone else too. im repeating all the things said by someone who knows these details. As for the Hard Rock Cafe stuff. those are just my specualtions based upon what people in the know are saying about this project I really dont know. It may have nothing like that at all. But the criticism sounds like a bunch of pessimism and envy to me. Also who said a project had to cost a couple billion dollars to have a huge impact on the region?

[x.man]

Who are we to envy? How can we envy a real estate development in Greensboro? Maybe we could envy the developer, or maybe the property owners who will (perhaps) sell their land, but we can't envy a development.

urban, you have posted with so much enthusiasm (sometimes making multiple consecutive posts within your own thread), and offering a great deal of conjecture (on the part of yourself and others), and looking at best-case scenarios sprinkled with innuendo...that you have raised the bar terribly high for this project. Even if this turns out to be a $100 million project with two mid-rises, a museum and a chain restaurant of two (a great project for Greensboro any year), it will be a let down. I understand you are very excited about the prospects of this project, and you are very enthusiastic for the developer, but lets just stand back a little bit and let this unfold as it will. Sparkling adjectives will not make this project happen any sooner, and optimistic speculation will not make the scope of the project any bigger.

[ncvwgtiboi]

I would be interested to know how the developers plan to "dwarf" the EpiCentre in Charlotte for half the money. The EpiCentre is costing $300M to build in current dollars and the estimates for this Greensboro project top out at $150M. The numbers are not adding up.

[urbanscraper]

whats wrong with being really enthusiastic...there is nothing wrong with that. and yes I will tell you NOT based on conjecture this is going to be BIG! of course if this happens, you will all find out and those who riducule me will be eating crow and I will serve it on a platter ;).

[RockHillJames]

It's really cool to see a pissing contest from a project that hasn't even been announced yet.

[g-man435]

Where did all my posts go? Look what you caused Sulley. :haha:

[g-man435]

Where is everybody. Come on people. Post please. :)

[KB0679]

What else is there to say? It's nothing but a waiting game at this point.

[M II A II R II K]

Where did all my posts go? Look what you caused Sulley. :haha:

You are hijacking this thread.

Yes you are free to post in here by all means, as long as you post about the topic at hand.

We do not allow hijacking or derailing of a thread especially when your off topic posts prompt responses to them.

Only post about what this topic is about.

[g-man435]

^^Ok. So, if I were to say it would be a Wal-Mart, is that hi-jacking this thread? I like your little signature too. :)

[M II A II R II K]

Maybe if you took out your Greenville references that would be a great place to start.

[g-man435]

^^Oh, ok.

[Coin]

I would be interested to know how the developers plan to "dwarf" the EpiCentre in Charlotte for half the money. The EpiCentre is costing $300M to build in current dollars and the estimates for this Greensboro project top out at $150M. The numbers are not adding up.

I was hoping someone would have a more current price tag for Epicentre. The $180 million figure was the estimate when it was first announced. I knew it would go up, at the very least due to inflation.

[Cosmoboy]

I think it's wrong to solely attack urbanscraper on his enthusiasm for his city. Yes, I will agree with you all that he has a problem with over inflating things but most of us (including myself) have done that before when our city has had a major project announced. The fact is this project hasn't even been "announced" and is still in the planning stages. It's nice to be excited about the project, but kind of keep it in bounds (not targeting anyone specifically). I mean come on Hard Rock (overrated IMO)? multiple hotels? high-rises? Disney? in GREENSBORO? I highly doubt any of that will happen. It's a possibility Disney may come if that thing you stated urbanscraper that Disney might be looking to implement mini-amusement areas in cities has any value to it. What I think this development might be is a village with a unique theme to it with 2 or 3 10-15 storey buildings and smaller ones that are a combination of residential, commercial, and a hotel. But to say it will dwarf the EpiCentre? Please....surely they jest, I think that's a case of bad-reporting and just words added to cause hype. Could it be a Gaylord Hotels complex? I would much rather prefer that over a Disney themed area. A Disney complex would look cheesy in downtown, but would look better in the suburban parts of Greensboro.

[urbanscraper]

well I say all that because hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent to see if Greensboro could sustain a project like this and the fact that the developer has said they have to see if Greensboro and downtown can support this. What could this be to have to figure out if the city can support this?

checklist of some elements said to be a part of this development:

1 MAJOR HOTEL - we know Greensboro can support it

2 MAJOR RETAIL - we know Greensboro can support it

3 NIGHTCLUBS/ENTERTAINMENT - We know Greensboro can support it

4 RESTAURANTS - we know Greensboro can support it

5 OFFICE SPACE - we know Greensboro can support it

6 CONDOS - we know Greensboro can support it

7 SUPERMARKET - We know Greensboro can support it

again I ask why is the developer saying that they have to see if Greensboro (not just downtown) can support this? obviously its something you'd expect to see in a BIG CITYand part of that tells me its the very nature of the kind of retail and entertainment attractions. That all tells me there could be some venues like House of Blues or Hard Rock involved. Its the only thing I can think of to have to determine if Greensboro can support it....but I could be all wrong. people shouldnt say im over inflating this until they find out exactly whats being proposed because you just never know. I could be right about some of this.

As for the Disney stuff, this may or may not be Disney related but one thing is for sure, its a themed development being proposed by an anomynous Florida development company, with entertainment geared towards families, children, singles and several states are after this project. Why would several states be fighting just to get a hotel, some residential and maybe a few nightclubs? It just doesnt make any sense. like it said, it may not be Disney but its something VERY BIG to say the least. There is certainly more to the story. Also rememember that there are 3 potential plans. There is the smaller version, the medium sized version and the larger version. The version that Greensboro could potentially get would determine how big of an impact it would have on the region. From what I understand from source in the know about this, the smallest version is still VERY BIG for Greensboro and that the city would be a winner no matter which version it could get. But you still have to say that this may not happen in Greensboro at all. It just depends on how city leaders react to this project.

BTW if it were Disney, it wouldnt be an amusement park, it would be an urban downtown entertainment district with night clubs, themed restaurants attractions for kids and families and shopping. One thing to note is that these downtown districts that Disney has talked about doing would be modeled after Downtown Disney in Florida which btw has venues like House of Blues and Planet Hollywood.

as for as what I would expect to be a part of this development, im 90% sure that a multiplex theater would be included in this development. At the very least that.

[Coin]

well I say all that because hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent to see if Greensboro could sustain a project like this and the fact that the developer has said they have to see if Greensboro and downtown can support this. What could this be to have to figure out if the city can support this?

checklist of some elements said to be a part of this development:

1 MAJOR HOTEL - we know Greensboro can support it

2 MAJOR RETAIL - we know Greensboro can support it

3 NIGHTCLUBS/ENTERTAINMENT - We know Greensboro can support it

4 RESTAURANTS - we know Greensboro can support it

5 OFFICE SPACE - we know Greensboro can support it

6 CONDOS - we know Greensboro can support it

7 SUPERMARKET - We know Greensboro can support it
My first question is what do you base this on? How do you know Greensboro can support these things?

My second question is how do you know Greensboro can support adding all of these things simultaneously? It's saturating a market with a bunch of stuff all at once. Don't you risk some crossover of disposable income? Sure, Greensboro could support some new bars, but can they also support new restaurants opening at the exact same time? Is downtown Greensboro really enough of a market for all of these elements to come online at the same time and be supported to a level that makes this project profitable?

My third question is one of shear numbers. We've said the price tag could be as high as $150 million...so how many condos does that get you? Can Greensboro support that? How many hotel rooms does that get you, and what kind of hotel would it be? And can Greensboro also support that? How much retail space would that get you, and what kind of retail would it be? Can Greensboro support that?

Urbanscraper, based on all of the 'inside' knowledge you have, what do you honestly HONESTLY see this project including, while staying within a $150 million budget?

Right now there are way more questions than there are answers, so it seems a bit early to make a blanket statement that Greensboro can handle all of this at once.

[urbanscraper]

My first question is what do you base this on? How do you know Greensboro can support these things?

My second question is how do you know Greensboro can support adding all of these things simultaneously? It's saturating a market with a bunch of stuff all at once. Don't you risk some crossover of disposable income? Sure, Greensboro could support some new bars, but can they also support new restaurants opening at the exact same time? Is downtown Greensboro really enough of a market for all of these elements to come online at the same time and be supported to a level that makes this project profitable?

My third question is one of shear numbers. We've said the price tag could be as high as $150 million...so how many condos does that get you? Can Greensboro support that? How many hotel rooms does that get you, and what kind of hotel would it be? And can Greensboro also support that? How much retail space would that get you, and what kind of retail would it be? Can Greensboro support that?

Urbanscraper, based on all of the 'inside' knowledge you have, what do you honestly HONESTLY see this project including, while staying within a $150 million budget?

Right now there are way more questions than there are answers, so it seems a bit early to make a blanket statement that Greensboro can handle all of this at once.


I think first of all, Greensboro is already supporting those things. most are not downtown. Also, We dont really know the final figure. The $150 million figure has been thrown around out there in the media....but we dont really know it could be much more. But I do trust inside info about this and its HUGE.

[Cosmoboy]

I think first of all, Greensboro is already supporting those things. most are not downtown. Also, We dont really know the final figure. The $150 million figure has been thrown around out there in the media....but we dont really know it could be much more. But I do trust inside info about this and its HUGE.

The Friendly Center/Four Seasons market is much different than downtown, I think that's what he's getting at. NO downtown in the Triad could support this development if it is what you say it is. I think our local media may be severely sheltered as I think all this is is just a modest sized mixed use development.

[SouthParkGuy]

I agree Cosmoboy thats its just blown way out of portion. I think this is being hyped like the Segway was. Remeber it was supposed to change the way we lived and that everyone would have it. When it finally came out it barely even caught on. The details are so vague all we know and need to know it's HUGE!!!

[urbanscraper]

The Friendly Center/Four Seasons market is much different than downtown, I think that's what he's getting at. NO downtown in the Triad could support this development if it is what you say it is. I think our local media may be severely sheltered as I think all this is is just a modest sized mixed use development.

But the developer is pondering wether this project can work in Greensboro all together not just downtown. Thats why on that list I said Greensboro could support this and that. Also the media knows very little about this. Ive talked with people in the media, and they cant get a story on this because everyone is so tight lipped about it. Just like the $150 million figure thats been floating around. its likely alot more than that. But Im talking about what people in the know about this are saying. This isnt me hyping or wishing. The fact that its so secret should tell you its Huge. No modest size development in downtown Greensboro has ever been this secret. Even downtown's largest developments, Southside and the Center Pointe tower project wasnt as secret as this. but based on info, not speculation or hype, this project CAN be so big that it can dramatically alter Greensboro's skyline. As for what downtown can support, theres obviously some kind of draw in the plan that would make it feasible to have some of the ammenties that normally wouldnt work downtown. According to an inside source, of the 3 potential plans, the largest one would make Greensboro a "destination city". All that I do know is that two big reason Greensboro is being looked at for this project has to do with the city's history and its central location between Charlotte and Raleigh.

[urbanscraper]

I agree Cosmoboy thats its just blown way out of portion. I think this is being hyped like the Segway was. Remeber it was supposed to change the way we lived and that everyone would have it. When it finally came out it barely even caught on. The details are so vague all we know and need to know it's HUGE!!!

You cant say its blown out of proportions because you dont know the details. im relyiing on inside info in this deal. and it is huge. If Greensboro gets it...you will see. But the effect on the region will depend on which of the plans are chosen should Greensboro land this. There is a scaled down version, medium-sized version and a large version. Even the scaled down version of the project is VERY BIG for Greensboro. I think alot of times people underestimate Greensboro. They think they know what the city can and cant do. The past 3 or 4 years, Greensboro has already proved some people wrong.

[Cosmoboy]

Well if you're right urbanscraper, I'll buy you coffee some time. :D

But, everyone of us has to think REALISTICALLY on this project. I mean come'on this is Greensboro we're talking about! I don't mean to be putting down cities, but everytime I drive through G'boro I think it is just a wasteland of suburbia crap full of motels, strip-malls, restaurants, and big-box stores. Seriously, do you think a city that has hardly surpassed the 300,000 mark and has barely any downtown residents & attractions is going to all of a sudden have a House of Blues/Planet Hollywood/Hardrock Cafe type restaurant and chain-retail? I'm from Winston and as many projects as we have going up, even we can't support this. I can understand if you're relying on the media for info, as most of us do, but the "insiders" in this area I think are so sheltered that they think a residential project with street level retail is like getting Trump in town.

[Coin]

I think first of all, Greensboro is already supporting those things. most are not downtown. Also, We dont really know the final figure. The $150 million figure has been thrown around out there in the media....but we dont really know it could be much more. But I do trust inside info about this and its HUGE.

So when you say Greensboro can support ADDITIONAL retail/hotel/office/entertainment you're talking about the city as a whole? I thought you were being specific to downtown.

And now you're speculating that the price tag could be much larger than the article even claims? See, that is the kind of comment that is attracting criticism in this thread. The development isn't even necessarily going to end up in Greensboro and already you're speculating that the price tag might be higher than reported. Your conjecture is setting the project up to be a major letdown.

I also don't buy the logic of Greensboro's centralized location between Charlotte and Raleigh. If this project's ability to survive is actually reliant on the interest of Charlotte and Raleigh residents and passers-by, then I don't see any way it'll work.

[Coin]

Well if you're right urbanscraper, I'll buy you coffee some time. :D

But, everyone of us has to think REALISTICALLY on this project. I mean come'on this is Greensboro we're talking about! I don't mean to be putting down cities, but everytime I drive through G'boro I think it is just a wasteland of suburbia crap full of motels, strip-malls, restaurants, and big-box stores. Seriously, do you think a city that has hardly surpassed the 300,000 mark and has barely any downtown residents & attractions is going to all of a sudden have a House of Blues/Planet Hollywood/Hardrock Cafe type restaurant and chain-retail? I'm from Winston and as many projects as we have going up, even we can't support this. I can understand if you're relying on the media for info, as most of us do, but the "insiders" in this area I think are so sheltered that they think a residential project with street level retail is like getting Trump in town.

I just question the downtown population and its ability to support this project, if it is on the scale that is being suggested. And will enough suburbanites/tourists venture into downtown Greensboro to pick up the slack? That would be my concern.

What is the current population of downtown Greensboro?

[urbanscraper]

I just question the downtown population and its ability to support this project, if it is on the scale that is being suggested. And will enough suburbanites/tourists venture into downtown Greensboro to pick up the slack? That would be my concern.

What is the current population of downtown Greensboro?

1st let me address what you said about Greensboro. just about every southern city is full of sprawl and big box retailers. In those regards, Greensboro is no different from no other city. Charlotte is like that (outside of downtown)

secondly, I do believe the development will draw people. People from Winston-Salem, High Point Burlington and other areas already come to the clubs in downtown Greensboro at night. Imagine if these entertainment developments were taken to "the next level". The developers seem to be expecting people from Charlotte and Raleigh to come to Greensboro. If one of thier logics for putting it here has to do with the city's location between the two cities, yes I do believe it can draw the people. Over 20,000 fans packed downtown Greensboro to see an outdoor Chris Daughtry concert and you can bet alot of people came from the Triangle and Charlotte areas.

Look at what cities smaller than Greensboro have done with thier downtowns (Greenville, SC, Chattanooga, TN) in many way have had more success than Greensboro. I think the Greensboring perception still lingers despite all the positive changes that have happened in the city......but just maybe...just maybe Greensboro can have one of these.......
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/227/486792733_11895aa28d.jpg

or one of these

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/325602703_57bd388015.jpg?v=0

[Coin]

Why would people travel from Charlotte for Chris Daughtry when he just played in South End? You've kinda made my point. What will this development offer that residents of Charlotte or Raleigh aren't already getting in their own cities? At this point it's pure speculation. Before you can start assuming that a project will draw in outsiders, you have to have a critical mass that can sustain the project without outside help.

Which leads me back to the question I asked that you never answered. What is the current population of downtown Greensboro?

[urbanscraper]

Why would people travel from Charlotte for Chris Daughtry when he just played in South End? You've kinda made my point. What will this development offer that residents of Charlotte or Raleigh aren't already getting in their own cities? At this point it's pure speculation. Before you can start assuming that a project will draw in outsiders, you have to have a critical mass that can sustain the project without outside help.

Which leads me back to the question I asked that you never answered. What is the current population of downtown Greensboro?

downtown population doesnt matter as much as the city or regional population matters...and as I said before downtown Greensboro is already a Triad destination....most of the people that come downtown anyway dont even live downtown...they live in the suburbs........im still sure those Daughtry groupies from Charlotte still came to Greensboro;)

of course for all we know..a major aquarium might be planned...there are projects in this potential develpoment that havent been released to the public or the media.

[SouthParkGuy]

even if you guys get a Hard Rock or whatever its supposed to be i highly doubt I would drive from Charlotte to there. This regional plan to me just seems like a waste for a project like this. I just don't see myself ever going to see any of that stuff. I think they just need to pick a city that meets the demographics to support this project and not just hope there are enough big cities around to have it make it. I mean this would be great for the state its just i'm not much for a day trip.

[urbanscraper]

even if you guys get a Hard Rock or whatever its supposed to be i highly doubt I would drive from Charlotte to there. This regional plan to me just seems like a waste for a project like this. I just don't see myself ever going to see any of that stuff. I think they just need to pick a city that meets the demographics to support this project and not just hope there are enough big cities around to have it make it. I mean this would be great for the state its just i'm not much for a day trip.


well we have to wait and see what it is. Hard Rock Cafe is just a specualtion and maybe its nothing like that. Im just seeing Well ABOVE average enthusism from people who know all about this. If it doesnt attract you to Greensboro, thats ok but what ever it is it would attract others. reaaly its about the over all picture of this development. even if it had a Hard Rock, that alone is not going to attract people from all over the piedmont. It would be a combination of alot of things involved in this project.

[Cosmoboy]

Well yes I know almost all southern cities (and all US cities for that fact) have their large share of sprawl. From a visitor's perspective, Greensboro is nothing but a poorly planned city with hardly any character that gave into developers during the 70's, 80's, 90's, and somewhat the 00's. Sorry, but that's just the feel I get from the city.

You just can't say that because this development is coming, it will have venues & stores such as Gap, HOB, BET, and Hard Rock. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT FACTS! It's nice to dream, but it's even better to realistically dream. Hard Rocks are located in cities that have influenced music over the years, I don't think Chris Daughtry is going to cut it. The same goes somewhat for HOB. Retailers look at where they are placing stores, just because Southside has a few developments going up and the CenterPointe condo conversion has happened, doesn't mean downtown Greensboro is going to open up the floodgates for national retailers. Plus chain retail just isn't feasible for downtown as Friendly Center is about 2 miles away and Four Seasons is a stone's throw away. This is Greensboro's chance to make itself unique, and not copy off of other cities' ideas.

[urbanscraper]

Well yes I know almost all southern cities (and all US cities for that fact) have their large share of sprawl. From a visitor's perspective, Greensboro is nothing but a poorly planned city with hardly any character that gave into developers during the 70's, 80's, 90's, and somewhat the 00's. Sorry, but that's just the feel I get from the city.

You just can't say that because this development is coming, it will have venues & stores such as Gap, HOB, BET, and Hard Rock. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT FACTS! It's nice to dream, but it's even better to realistically dream. Hard Rocks are located in cities that have influenced music over the years, I don't think Chris Daughtry is going to cut it. The same goes somewhat for HOB. Retailers look at where they are placing stores, just because Southside has a few developments going up and the CenterPointe condo conversion has happened, doesn't mean downtown Greensboro is going to open up the floodgates for national retailers. Plus chain retail just isn't feasible for downtown as Friendly Center is about 2 miles away and Four Seasons is a stone's throw away. This is Greensboro's chance to make itself unique, and not copy off of other cities' ideas.


As I said we will just wait and see what happens ;)

[Cosmoboy]

As I said we will just wait and see what happens ;)

:cool: Sounds good by me.

[g-man435]

Why are you guys going so far with a development that is only going to cost $50-$150 million?

[urbanscraper]

Why are you guys going so far with a development that is only going to cost $50-$150 million?

We dont even know if thats the correct figure....its likely to be more since we were not let in on all the potential developments. It was said that EpiCentre in Charlotte started out as being a little over $100 million but turned out being $300 million.

[g-man435]

^^That's because of this thing called Hurricane Katrina, which made the price of construction products go up.

[Coin]

even if you guys get a Hard Rock or whatever its supposed to be i highly doubt I would drive from Charlotte to there. This regional plan to me just seems like a waste for a project like this. I just don't see myself ever going to see any of that stuff. I think they just need to pick a city that meets the demographics to support this project and not just hope there are enough big cities around to have it make it. I mean this would be great for the state its just i'm not much for a day trip.

It's gonna take a lot more than Chris Daughtry or a Hard Rock Cafe to get me to drive an hour and a half.

[urbanscraper]

It's gonna take a lot more than Chris Daughtry or a Hard Rock Cafe to get me to drive an hour and a half.

lol You drive slow.....it takes me an hour and 10 minutes to get grom Greensboro to Charlotte :D

[KB0679]

downtown population doesnt matter as much as the city or regional population matters

It depends on what you're looking at. Typically, popular retailers have to have a certain critical mass downtown before they even think about putting a store there, and a big entertainment complex alone isn't enough to do the trick. Once again, look at EpiCentre in Charlotte; as big and nice as it's going to be, I don't think it's going to have retailers like Gap, Urban Outfitters, etc. as tenants. If there have been some recent developments in this regard that names retailers such as those as tenants, then I stand corrected, but thus far I haven't heard of such. And again, uptown Charlotte has a much larger population and undoubtedly higher household income figures.

[sprtsluvr8]

Well yes I know almost all southern cities (and all US cities for that fact) have their large share of sprawl. From a visitor's perspective, Greensboro is nothing but a poorly planned city with hardly any character that gave into developers during the 70's, 80's, 90's, and somewhat the 00's. Sorry, but that's just the feel I get from the city.

It sounds like you are making judgements about the city from the perspective of driving through on I-85...I happen to know that Greensboro is not what you described. There is an abundance of character...Old Greensboro/S. Elm St. downtown, College Hill Historic District and UNC-G campus area/Tate St., Greensboro College, Fisher Park, Lake Daniels, Aycock, Starmount, Friendly Shopping Center...all in or near downtown. Greensboro is a historic Revolutionary War city with Battleground and Cornwalis Avenues and Battleground Park where the Battle of Guilford Courthouse took place. The city itself is named for Nathaniel Green. There are several theaters and museums in and near downtown, and a brand new downtown ballpark. It's sort of silly to make a statement about the lack of character and planning when it's obviously not realistic.

[urbanscraper]

It depends on what you're looking at. Typically, popular retailers have to have a certain critical mass downtown before they even think about putting a store there, and a big entertainment complex alone isn't enough to do the trick. Once again, look at EpiCentre in Charlotte; as big and nice as it's going to be, I don't think it's going to have retailers like Gap, Urban Outfitters, etc. as tenants. If there have been some recent developments in this regard that names retailers such as those as tenants, then I stand corrected, but thus far I haven't heard of such. And again, uptown Charlotte has a much larger population and undoubtedly higher household income figures.

I dont have the figures but I do know there is a very large population surrounding downtown Greensboro within a 2 to 3 mile radius.

[urbanscraper]

After reading the linked articles on forum, a poster on a local Greensboro blog called the Disney Executive offices and got nowhere fast. He then called the Sentinel reporter (who reported the story about Disney building hotel/entertainment complexes in downtowns) to see if had any other information. He did not...

But the reporter did say this about the Greensboro/Disney speculation after the blog poster explained what he knew... "It wouldn't surprise me one bit."

Amazingly, a few people who strongly opposed the downtown ballpark, actually like the idea of an Disney entertainment complex.

article
http://www.topix.net/content/trb/1116238269327808190530730829633186064765

[bobdreamz]

where is Greensboro??...:jester:

[g-man435]

^^In a boro of course. :haha:

[urbanscraper]

Some Disney hints

Here are some clues indicating this could be a Disney related project:

Here are some clues indicating this could be a Disney related project:

1) anonymous Florida Development company is behind the project (Disney Development Company?- a subsidary and community development arm of Walt Disney)

2) several southern states are competeing for this development (Greensboro is the front runner)

3) Disney announced 3 months ago that it was thinking about building themed hotel/entertainment complexes in downtowns. (Greensboro's rumored project has a highrise hotel /entertainment complex......btw what is in this project that makes it feasible to build a highrise hotel downtown? just a few years ago hotels werent doing good downtown) These "Disney Downtown Districts" would be modeled after the Downtown Disney parks in Orlando and Anaheim which have ACM theaters, House of Blues, ESPN Zone and other venues for families and Children.

4) the Development is described as having an entertainment complex with with attractions for families, children and singles (VERY DISNEY LIKE)

5) hudreds of thousands of dollars were spent to do feasibilty studies. (Why on earth would it take that much money for a project in downtown Greensboro?)

6) The Florida development company is pondering wether Greensboro can support this project (indicating the large nature of the project)

7) The company is looking at Greensboro because of its central location between Charlotte and Raleigh. (indicating this project is expected to draw people from around the Piedmont)

8) The company's decision to look at Greensboro also has to do with the city's history which indicates a theme development. (American Revolution theme? ACC?)

9) Project appears to be a tourist destination (the developer wants to include the ACC Hall of Champions and Museum with this project)

10) The project has been descibed as HUGE and MASSIVE for Greensboro

11) an Orlando news reporter said in reference to the Disney/Greensboro speculation "I wouldn't be surprised"

12) This project is secret as hell!

[g-man435]

^^^Hopefully, it's as big as you think it will be if your city gets it. :)

[KB0679]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2817159&postcount=45

[g-man435]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2817159&postcount=45

Ok? :sly:

[Cosmoboy]

Urbanscraper, how do you know Greensboro is the front runner?

[urbanscraper]

Urbanscraper, how do you know Greensboro is the front runner?

Inside source told me.....also President of Downtown Greensboro, Inc said "This project is Greensboro's to lose"

[KB0679]

Ok? :sly:

Don't even try it: Last edited by g-man435 : Today at 09:17 PM.

[g-man435]

^^^Yeah, I edited my post. What are you going to do? Ban me?

[Skyliner]

^^^Yeah, I edited my post. What are you going to do? Ban me?

Better watch out, g-man, you may end up with a lifetime ban from all online forums. The worst thing you are doing to yourself is losing support from people who would have gotten along just fine with you.

[KB0679]

^He doesn't understand that, Skyliner. If anything, we're helping him. The best way for him to get banned, here or elsewhere, is to let him continue with his antics unwarned.

[urbanscraper]

g-man please stop hyjacking this thread

[M II A II R II K]

Yes the warnings have been given out. The next step could be a suspension.

[jednc]

Wow...I find myself stuck in the middle of this debate about the mystery project.

First, I want to go to bat for Greensboro. It's a great city with a rich history that speaks as much to itself as it does to NC as a whole. I'm very proud G'boro is in NC. I spent much time there growing up, and it seemed like the coolest place since I lived in just a small town. I have lived in Charlotte for almost 20 years now, but I still love Greensboro. I just recently walked Elm St. and ate at a restaurant down there. Greensboro is just a really pleasant city with a nice feel to it. It has always felt educated, cultured, and progressive to me.

Now, with that said...
I think some of the posters on this thread are putting the cart before the horse. I agree with one of the posters that this sounds like a mixed use project that will probably be 2-3 buildings in the 10-15 story range. If I lived in Greensboro, I'd be really happy with this. It's a great next step for where this city is in terms of downtown development. It's great to dream, but this sounds like it might be really disappointing if someone expects it to be some supertall tower packed with national retailers and restaurants.

Good luck though...what's good for Greensboro is ultimately good for NC as a whole.

[urbanscraper]

Wow...I find myself stuck in the middle of this debate about the mystery project.

First, I want to go to bat for Greensboro. It's a great city with a rich history that speaks as much to itself as it does to NC as a whole. I'm very proud G'boro is in NC. I spent much time there growing up, and it seemed like the coolest place since I lived in just a small town. I have lived in Charlotte for almost 20 years now, but I still love Greensboro. I just recently walked Elm St. and ate at a restaurant down there. Greensboro is just a really pleasant city with a nice feel to it. It has always felt educated, cultured, and progressive to me.

Now, with that said...
I think some of the posters on this thread are putting the cart before the horse. I agree with one of the posters that this sounds like a mixed use project that will probably be 2-3 buildings in the 10-15 story range. If I lived in Greensboro, I'd be really happy with this. It's a great next step for where this city is in terms of downtown development. It's great to dream, but this sounds like it might be really disappointing if someone expects it to be some supertall tower packed with national retailers and restaurants.

Good luck though...what's good for Greensboro is ultimately good for NC as a whole.

you are right...we dont know exactly whats going to be in this project. but what puzzles me and what makes me think this project could have some very ambitious attractions is the fact the several states and many cities are comnpeting for this project. This tells me its not just a 10-story Hampton Inn, a few restaurants, nightclubs and condos. 5 states and many cities arent going to compete for something like that. That kinda raises red flags that the development company is pretty big and has ambitious plans. further more community organizations arent going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of feasibilty studies on a mediocre development. Nothing like that was ever spent on any of the largest projects in downtown Greensboro, no where near that...now all that stuff about House of Blues and things of that nature is nothing more than speculation. Another thing. Ive been talking with a source that knows whats going on....he still wont tell me what it is but he insists this is a really HUGE deal for Greensboro. Two 15-story towers are great for Greensboro but its not a huge deal and not worth the hype city leaders and the media has been putting out there. Even when those three officer towers were built in the early 90s there was never this kind of hype before their construction. I dont think the buildings or how tall the buildings could be are the big deal. I think its the nature of the entire project thats the big deal. My source insist that if the larger version of the project is built he could see Greensboro becoming a destination city. The only thing I can do is speculate based on the facts and what ive been told. but then again what do I really know. All im doing is very impatiently waiting to see what this is like everyone else. I cant help but dream LOL

[g-man435]

g-man please stop hyjacking this thread

Ok.

[Coin]

you are right...we dont know exactly whats going to be in this project. but what puzzles me and what makes me think this project could have some very ambitious attractions is the fact the several states and many cities are comnpeting for this project. This tells me its not just a 10-story Hampton Inn, a few restaurants, nightclubs and condos. 5 states and many cities arent going to compete for something like that.

I think the fact that several cities are competing is a sign of a shaky economy in which many cities are fighting for development all the development they can get.

[x.man]

Even when those three officer towers were built in the early 90s there was never this kind of hype before their construction.

I spoke to a bunch of downtown folks earlier today, and there is no hype. The only hype is on this board and others where one person is really fanning the flames. The reality among downtown power brokers are that Ray is being tight lipped about this, and they are ok waiting to find out what is up. The first time they heard Disney mentioned is when I mentioned it, and even then they didnt understand the concept as it has been described here.

I am just not getting much of a buzz here...among people who should be buzzing. Interest is tepid.

[urbanscraper]

I spoke to a bunch of downtown folks earlier today, and there is no hype. The only hype is on this board and others where one person is really fanning the flames. The reality among downtown power brokers are that Ray is being tight lipped about this, and they are ok waiting to find out what is up. The first time they heard Disney mentioned is when I mentioned it, and even then they didnt understand the concept as it has been described here.

I am just not getting much of a buzz here...among people who should be buzzing. Interest is tepid.

They didnt understand it was going to be an entertainment complex with a hotel and residential? Thats how its been described here, that the way the media described it and thats the way Ray Gibbs himself described it. I dont know why you have to think so negativly about everything. a developer could make an announcement of a 15-story office tower tommorrow and youd have something negative to say about ;). You're the glass is half empty kinda guy. I guess the news media has gotten this all wrong that this is not a very big project, In fact I guess Ray Gibbs himself doesnt know whats going on because he says this is a very exciting and big project too.

look at this video.....and you are saying im the only person hyping this?

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/MyFox/pages...mp;locale=EN-US

[Coin]

So you admit you're hyping it, even though few details are known, and virtually nothing about the project is set in stone.

[urbanscraper]

So you admit you're hyping it, even though few details are known, and virtually nothing about the project is set in stone.


nope I was being sarcastic and trying to prove a point

[Coin]

I really do hope this project becomes a reality. I fear you're setting the project up to be a major letdown though. Good luck.

[urbanscraper]

I really do hope this project becomes a reality. I fear you're setting the project up to be a major letdown though. Good luck.

put it this way....wether its something that is Disney related or not I still believe it to be a big project. If its not Disney, it still wont be a let down. I'll admit thats the only thing ive probablly hyped because despite all the coincidences I cant say its Disney for fact. But it wont be a let down if its not. The rest of the things ive said comes directly from the media and inside sources.

The thing is you have to deal with people that constantly have negative views about Greensboro and its potential as if there is no hope for the city. But if any body thats doing the setting up, its the media. They are the ones that is saying the project could be bigger than George Clooney and cause as much excitement of a Chris Daughtry concert. They have brought this to light more than I have ever done. talk about hype...I dont think anything is bigger than George Clooney these days LOL. We've just never seen this kind of excitement with any of the previous downtown projects including the highrise condo Center Pointe. Why is the media making such a fuss over this? The truth of the matter is they probabally know...they just cant report it because technically its just a rumor. Again no body can expalin why mutliple states are competing for it and poor economies around the south just doesnt cut it as a reason.

[x.man]

The rest of the things ive said comes directly from the media and inside sources.

Thats not exactly true. You have talked about a lot of the chain restaurants and entertainment venues that you would like to see in downtown Greensboro.

But if any body thats doing the setting up, its the media.

Thats not exactly true either. You have been quite excited about this project, and established a pretty high bar for folks to remain impressed by.

Why is the media making such a fuss over this? The truth of the matter is they probabally know...they just cant report it because technically its just a rumor.

There really hasnt been THAT much in the media about this, two News and Record articles by the same writer, and one FOX News report? Nothing CLOSE in comparison to Clooney or Daughtry.

Regarding another post of yours, I am not being half empty, I am being realistic. Why be realistic? I've been around for a while, and I've seen lots of projects in Greensboro, High Point, Winston, New York, London, etc that simply don't happen. What if I had gone ape when Trump announced he was going to build the worlds tallest on Manhattan's west side? What if I did a flip when Southern Life Insurance announced it was building a 30-story office tower in downtown Greensboro? What if I went ga ga when General Growth Properties announced they were going to build a new mall at Eastchester and Wendover in High Point? Yeah, its all interesting...and how cool would it have been if it had all happened? But building it up in your mind, or on the message board, is not going to make it happen any bigger or faster, and in fact, I think it can lead you to a let-down. Nah, I'm not negative, nor am I half empty...but I really do enjoy being objective.

Patiently waiting for factual details,
x.man