[Just-In-Cali]

well, fwiw i don't take issue with the findings. but obviously LA didn't get top five for having either of those general characteristics bolded above.surveyed.

I agree with that as well :yes: ...it has a long way to go. I see small bits of progress, but we need to create an integrated city that allows easy flow of people to all of the major neighborhoods with the least amount of traffic and trouble...which obviously is not the case as of now. The point I think of the article was mainly to show that the market, at least commercially, could start a rebound here in LA sooner than many would have expected. If that can lead to investment in that region wide comprehensive transportation system...I am all for it. I think DTLA is in a unique position in that it could create a microcosm of what the city could be like if money is put into more trains, subways, cabs, and trolleys, street level developement, and cultural spaces.:deal:

[ThreeHundred]

^ That's one of the reasons why I think LA is one of the few cities that has does pretty well during this time of woe and want (Gold star goes to the one who can name me the movie that quote was taken from). It's in the position to rebound pretty strongly as we didn't overbuild like Miami or San Diego, and have made long terms projects that'll help pump money into the local economy. LA Live chief among them.

[blogdowntown]

November 18, 2008
Great photos taken by Eric! Does he have an account on SSP?

Apparently I hadn't checked in on this forum since August...

Late Night DASH and extended hours on the Red Line kick off tonight. Both run through the end of the year on Friday and Saturday nights, bringing coherent transit both inside of Downtown and to Downtown until 3am. I really believe that service like this DASH (and later the streetcar) are important to connecting the dots for Downtown development. It was great to see several Downtown developers and property owners contribute to the DASH pilot, including Astani and MerueloMaddux.

http://blogdowntown.com/2008/11/3822-get-ready-to-ride-holiday-late-night-dash

http://metro.net/riding_metro/metro_rail/rl_latenight/default.htm

I'm thinking one of these nights I may have to use the DASH to do a late night photo tour. It'll make lugging the tripod around quite a bit easier.

[Martinx07]

Any word on when Concerto will be completed?

[ladowntowner]

Not sure about Concerto, I'd guess mid '09 for Tower 1 considering the rate of progress so far. Tower 2, well it may not happen for a long while, if ever.

And looking out of my window this morning I'd venture to say we are within a couple floors (at most) of having the Ritz topped out, based on the angle of the (roughly) vertical beams in place on the last couple floors being constructed. Then a little more height for the crown. All in all, I'm fairly pleased with it's height (notwithstanding the grumblings to the contrary by some posters here).

[JDRCRASH]

I'm overall satisfied by it's height; though I don't think it's going to be quite as high as I thought.

Mid 2009 for Tower 1 of Concerto? That sounds pretty bullish, considering that 717 Ninth won't open until late 2009.
BTW, just curious: what building do you live in, ladowntowner?

[ladowntowner]

Mid 2009 for Tower 1 of Concerto? That sounds pretty bullish, considering that 717 Ninth won't open until late 2009.
BTW, just curious: what building do you live in, ladowntowner?
You may be right about that depending on your perspective. I looked it up and found that it was projected for a September '09 completion, which could be considered "late mid" '09 to "early late" '09 but it's kind of splitting hairs at that point. Whatever the case, it sounds like third quarter '09. Now if it will be early third quarter, mid third quarter or even late third quarter is anyone's guess at this point. Does any of this really ultimately matter in the grand scheme of things? Not likely. :rolleyes:

What building do I live in? What makes you think I live in a building? Perhaps I live in an underpass of the 110 and have propped up a window to look through so it will feel a little more "homey.":jester:

[JDRCRASH]

:haha:

[ladowntowner]

I don't remember if anyone mentioned that the vacant flea-bag hotel/apartment on the north side of Olympic just across from the Ritz is currently under demo. A very painstakingly slow demo at that, as it appears they are attempting recover as many bricks as possible intact and palletizing them. My understanding is that old bricks usually sell for more than new ones and are in higher demand.

Also, the University Gateway project has vertical rebar in place throughout the entire project up to the third floor.

[JDRCRASH]

I don't remember if anyone mentioned that the vacant flea-bag hotel/apartment on the north side of Olympic just across from the Ritz is currently under demo. A very painstakingly slow demo at that, as it appears they are attempting recover as many bricks as possible intact and palletizing them. My understanding is that old bricks usually sell for more than new ones and are in higher demand.
.

Angelenic and blogdowntown have commented on that particular activity, and whether it will be another parking lot for L.A. Live(which I hope it isn't..), or possibly another development altogether, isn't clear yet. I was there about a few months ago, and most recently three weeks ago, and it doesn't look like it's progressed that much. Hmmm..... maybe the demand for old bricks is slowing?:shrug:

BTW, it looks like they're fixing up the LED billboard on the ESPN building:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3056532436_503bf82768.jpg
From flickr by Eric Richardson

[JDRCRASH]

Curbed LA,

Real Estate Development: Where's LA Headed? (http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/11/uli_report.php)

Tuesday, November 25, 2008, by Dakota

Last week, the Urban Land Institute, a nonprofit education and research institute, held its annual Emerging Trends Presentation, an event that invited local real estate experts to discuss the findings of two recently released ULI-Pricewaterhouse Cooper studies about the national and local real estate markets, respectively. Moderating the event, held at the Japanese American National Museum, was Robert Gardner, senior vp of Robert Charles Lesser & Co, a national real estate advisory firm. An exec associated with the event passed on his notes from one of the panels to us; they're after the jump. Both ULI studies (one is called "Emerging Trends," the other is called "State of LA Capital Markets") can be pulled off ULI's web site. Additionally, some slides from the local study are in the gallery. Overall, it would seem the same trends are emerging from these talks: Experts forecast more public sector involvement and more transit-orientated development. Also, there are "fortunes" to be made during these real estate downturns, according to the local study. That part is a little fuzzy to us. Elaborate, please.

Notes from talk with Katherine Perez, Executive Director, ULI Los Angeles; Percy Vaz, President, AMCAL; and Robert Gardner, Managing Director RCLCo, following Gardner’s presentation at: “Emerging Trends 2009” State of the Los Angeles Capital Markets,” by ULI Los Angeles, Thursday, Nov. 20, at Japanese American National Museum. Not quotes, but summary of ideas from the panel:

The new economic climate and what that means for development in the Los Angeles region:

Visionaries

In this new economic climate people of vision will always find a way to access capital to create real estate projects. They will find a way to buy the debt or secure the financing to develop new property.

Housing prices

Housing prices have fallen hardest in the I.E. and other areas; those areas may take 2-3 years to recover, while the coastal areas will fare much better.

New ways of building/living

The new economy will force architects, builders and developers to build project drastically different in design than we are used to in the Los Angeles region. The urban core and transit-oriented developments (TODs) are two of the directions that will be most significant in this new era.

- In many ways, architects will be among the most important figures to respond to this challenge, by coming up with new designs that put the highest possible degrees of livability into high-density development. Smaller square footages are what will pencil out for financing; they need to become attractive to consumers as well.

-- Changes in demographics (younger, more ethnically diversified population) will feed these trends. These populations are more accepting of higher densities.

Public sector

- Because many of these developments will be designed with much higher densities than has been traditional in Los Angeles, open space will be at a premium. This will require the public sector, in some ways, to provide the parks and open space that are otherwise lacking. In fact, government will need to contribute much more to all the positive elements of an urban environment, including schools and transportation.

- Also, because of the unavailability of financing, government participation in development will grow in importance. Public/private partnerships will be more prominent, with government often holding the land.


Per the ULI's web site, the following speakers took part in discussions: "John Menne, MetLife; John McClelland, LACERA; Scott McMullin, Holliday Fenoglio Fowler; Richard Neilson, Bank of America; Keith Rosenthal, Phoenix Realty Group; Rick Newman, Lowe Enterprises Real Estate Group, West; Kevin Ratner, Forest City Residential West; Percy Vaz, AMCAL; Jina Yoon, CRA/LA; David Waite, Jeffer Mangels Butlerf & Marmaro LLP; and Wayne Ratkovich, The Ratkovich Company."

[blogdowntown]

Angelenic and blogdowntown have commented on that particular activity, and whether it will be another parking lot for L.A. Live(which I hope it isn't..), or possibly another development altogether, isn't clear yet. I was there about a few months ago, and most recently three weeks ago, and it doesn't look like it's progressed that much. Hmmm..... maybe the demand for old bricks is slowing?:shrug:

That plot of land is the LASED "Olympic North" site, identified in the master plan for a hotel use.

http://blogdowntown.com/2008/01/3091-marriott-to-create-the-los-angeles-edition

If the Marriott Edition happens, I would be shocked if it doesn't end up right there.

[JDRCRASH]

I saw renderings of it being connected by a Pedestrian Bridge to the Ritz, but obviously it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

[Westsidelife]

LA Live

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/3061281031_6c98bfc381_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/3062123200_fcb78d8c1f_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/3062123662_842fce7e82_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

[JDRCRASH]

Now thats an odd looking Christmas Tree....

BTW, is that a balcony I see above the LED screen? And if so, is it accessible?

[yeah215]

^^That is one of the worst things I have ever seen. If they are going to do a tree, they should do a tree. One along the lines of Rockefeller Center would be great. This metal light thing is just weird and cold. LA Live could use some elements that make the area feel a bit warmer.

[tujunga]

Maybe it's some kind of Christmas/New Years celebration tree. It does fit the modern look of the area though.

Don't stand next to that tree in a lightening storm.:runaway:

[Just-In-Cali]

I'll have to see it up and running when done to decide if this feeling of hatred for it is founded or not.

[JRinSoCal]

WTF!!? We get a metal tree? Hell no, that thing's gotta go. It looks like an electrical accident waiting to happen.

[DTLA]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the fact that the "tree" looks almost exactly like the Watts towers.

[dktshb]

I actually am not bothered by the tree. I think it fits with the modern structures that surround it. I bet it looks great at night too. If anything I think as far as scale it is rather small though.

[DJM19]

I dont hate the metal tree, it just looks like something better suited to be perched atop one of the buildings.

[ladowntowner]

I'm... uh... pretty much not feeling the metal "tree."

[JDRCRASH]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the fact that the "tree" looks almost exactly like the Watts towers.

It doesn't matter; it lacks that "welcoming" kind of feel to it.

[blogdowntown]

For those who didn't see the story that accompanied those photos:

http://blogdowntown.com/2008/11/3838-despite-rain-la-live-continues-holiday-prep

The particularly interesting thing to me is that the sphere lights covering the tree are individually-controllable "pixels." 11,000 lights, each individually programmable for color. Though I haven't seen the tree on yet, I don't doubt that it's going to be an impressive show.

For those looking for warmth, they are planting a ton of poinsettias around the plaza for the holidays.

[Martinx07]

It would look great at night when the "tree" will be on.

[RuFFy]

I don't think it's that horrible or that short. It's what? 52" high. Looking at the pic in the last page those folks look rather small next to that tree. That's about 9 times your average guy's height. Not only that, 11,000 LED's that function as individual pixels with about 20 digital billboards is really spectacular anyway you put it. I think some are jumping the gun in judging it's height and looks before seeing it and I'm quite confident the tree will be something VERY spectacular for Los Angeles that will undoubtedly make it stand out as it own, and not Rock Plaza that so many people seemed stuck on comparing it to.

[towersla]

I like it! Feels much like the hightech Dotonbori district in Osaka or Tokyo's Ginza.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I agree with Ruffy. I think this tree is quite unique in the USA and it will have it's own distinct flavor that will give LA Live (and hopefully by association, the general image of "LA") a very strong Christmas/Holidays identity that has been sorely lacking. I mean one of the only place that has any Christmas decorations is the Grove right?

[JDRCRASH]

Yes, but without an actual evergreen coniferous tree, it fails to add to the spirit of the holiday.

BTW, I was at the Hollywood and Highland center, and tried taking a pic of the Downtown skyline from the western balcony; unfortunately the Blessed Sacrament Catholic church's light brown spire completely blocks the Ritz from view.:grrr:

[ChrisLA]

Drove past LA Live tonight, it looked pretty lively. I guess with the USC game over at the Colisem, the LA Auto Show, and something going (I think it was a Clippers game) on a the Staple Center, that all helped.

I've haven't been impressed with the look during the day, but I have to say it does look nice with many of the bill boards lit up. It brings some much needed light to an area that always seems so dark. I can't wait to see when everything opens up.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Decided to check out DTLA tonight after being stuffed at Manna Korean BBQ in K-Town. It's incredible how much stuff is still happening every time I go down there. I saw so many businesses opening up - and about to open up - that I'm optimistic about DTLA becoming another hot spot like Hollywood.

I also got to tour the new Provecho Mexican restaurant, but didn't get to take pics of it inside since the nice lady who gave us the tour said they want it to be a surprise when people see it next week for lunch! It was really nice inside. Very well decorated. The main features of the restaurant will be the "glass waterfall feature" separating the dining area from the kitchen AND the beautiful chandeliers.

Anyway, enjoy the pics of DTLA. We haven't had an update in awhile.

Concerto is progressing nicely. Looks like the second mid-rise building is about 60% completed. We may start to see facade going up early next year.
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/449/img7280et2.jpg


I like this ad of Nautica. We need more ads like this and less ads with McDonald's "Big 'N Tasty."
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6981/img7188pw5.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9569/img7189ru6.jpg


The parking entrance for the Roosevelt. Pretty nice.
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5567/img7191gi2.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2201/img7193ne7.jpg


"Hail-A-Taxi" signs are posted all around DTLA. I think I saw at least half a dozen walking around the FiDi.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5650/img7195mj7.jpg


It was FOGGY. I love when the fog hangs over the top of the skyscrapers.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/812/img7198oz7.jpg


This one completely snuck up on me! It's a brand new lounge/bar called Remedy and it was built out in the INTERIOR of the 800 Wilshire building where Provecho is located. In fact, Remedy is actually a collaboration with Provecho. It was surprisingly well attended by bar-goers and hoppers.
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4233/img7200vp2.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7705/img7206sg5.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2636/img7207bh9.jpg

Inside Remedy Lounge
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2826/img7205gb7.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5918/img7202jx5.jpg


DTLA is actually getting more substantially festive with every passing year. More and more properties are taking decorating into their own hands.
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2586/img7208tm8.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3792/img7210pw8.jpg


This is the new Drago Centro, which just opened today. What they did with the surroundings is just beautiful!
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9184/img7211xb5.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4110/img7213hc8.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2678/img7214jq9.jpg

A private dining room I think within the nice stone wall.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7982/img7217oa2.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4332/img7218pt1.jpg


Work continues on the remodeling of Aon's lobby.
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2221/img7220qq4.jpg


Famima across the street from Aon tower at Wilshire and Hope.
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1020/img7222fq5.jpg


The foggy sky with LA Live's glow below.
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5075/img7223ww4.jpg


Wachovia bank "Coming Soon" to Hanover
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4831/img7224kb2.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/8523/img7233il3.jpg


LA Live lookin' good! Here's a shot of the corner at Fig and Olympic with Flemings steakhouse.
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2461/img7228ek9.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8148/img7232rf9.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/4397/img7237bc7.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4126/img7238lu6.jpg

Inside, work continues on Flemings
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3771/img7239kv1.jpg

Grammys Museum opening up Dec. 6, 2008
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/3050/img7241zh1.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5351/img7240vy1.jpg

Quite a few people were already going to Lucky Strike.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3151/img7244ky4.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/732/img7246vi7.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6865/img7249my5.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8638/img7256as8.jpg

These are being placed all around LA Live akin to the Hollywood stars.
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/8681/img7245bh7.jpg

Another restaurant coming soon.
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1884/img7251ut1.jpg

Conga Room (with changing colors)
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1290/img7253dx3.jpg

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/3384/img7254pw2.jpg

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8038/img7255bb3.jpg

Can't wait for programs to be broadcast from LA!
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9687/img7257bg1.jpg

"Greetings from Los Angeles" - The technical team was testing out the Christmas video with the LED tree (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyWnarnQgzM).
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2544/img7263gf2.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/7840/img7265dr4.jpg

Workers clean the ESPN Zone sign for Monday's grand opening.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3990/img7266fk7.jpg

Some new retail at ESPN Zone
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1176/img7268gv9.jpg

The first one in the U.S. :)
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2199/img7269rp5.jpg

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/4369/img7271oc5.jpg

A final shot of the corner we'll all be watching for the next few years.
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/291/img7276er1.jpg

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I recorded some videos of the LED Christmas tree and other decorations at LA Live. If you want to see the tree in "action," check out my videos.


Video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyWnarnQgzM)


Video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ5e_cFjuC4)

[JRinSoCal]

LAB, wow I'm gonna take back what I said before about the that tree. It truly is unique and amazing specially at night. LA Live is going to be quite an experience. A new era for downtown Los Angeles is about to emerge.

One question, and maybe its already been discussed here before. But what's Target's role in all of this? I keep seeing its logo everywhere. Is there going to be a Target store in the complex?

[colemonkee]

Great picture tour, LAB.

JR, to answer your question, there won't be a Target store in LA Live, but Target is a major long-term sponsor of LA Live, along with Coca-Cola, Anheuser-Busch (now Anheuser-Busch-InBev), Toyota and Wachovia. The sponsors all receive long-term outdoor advertising deals at the complex.

Target's involvement in the project doesn't necessarily mean they planned a store downtown, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had plans at one point during the boom to open a store nearby. I'm sure those plans have been delayed somewhat by the economic downturn.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Great Tour LAB! looks great. i cant wait to try out Drago!

[bobcat]

I agree that the Xmas tree looks good. I wonder if it's possible to move the Pershing Square ice rink to LA Live in the future. The LED tree would make a great backdrop.

Thanks, LAB!

[ksep]

seventh and fig would be sooooooo perfect for a target - and a trader joe's.

thanks for the picture update LAB. great job. while i'm not a big fan of latin music, conga room seems to turn out quite spectacular, judging from all the pictures and renderings i have seen so far. here is hoping that they will have a non latin night, at least once in a while.

btw, rivera restaurant across the street at the met lofts just installed their exterior signage, and it looks fantastic. especially when lit up at night.

[Martinx07]

These photos look great. The tree looks spectacular at night!
Thanks LAB!

[colemonkee]

It's been a while. Time for a photo update. Pictures of the Ritz Carlton Tower are in the Ritz Thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=129618&page=17). The front page has been updated as well, with Evo moved to "Recently Completed".

717 Olympic

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4261/meruelo200811304ce5.jpg

From 9th and Grand. You can see balcony glass starting to go in.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5939/meruelo200811302lv9.jpg

In the skyline from 12th Street. Post no bills!

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5403/meruelo200811303jr0.jpg

Concerto

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5742/concerto200811301ke0.jpg

The funky architectural feature on the low-rise beginning to take shape.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4606/concerto200811302hz9.jpg

Market Lofts Garage

Should continue retail further up Hope. I really wish iHope was going forward right now. It would complete this block.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/951/mlgarage20081130ui4.jpg

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Thanks guys and Colemonkee! DTLA is definitely looking up! There was so much activity around at night that I can totally see DTLA becoming the next biggest nightlife hot spot (rivaling Hollywood) and eventually getting some more retail options like Space 1520 that just opened up in Hollywood last week.

The only place that will be able to have a CONCENTRATED retail shopping district is the Historic Core. Watch! The next 15 years will turn the Historic Core into the next shopping "mecca." :)

[RAlossi]

Hey guys, LAB's photo update reminded me that I wanted to extend my invitation for you to join my Downtown Holiday Lights walking tour this Thursday at 7:30pm.

We're meeting at Union Station's main entrance and will snake our way through the Financial District to LA Live, where they'll be having hourly lighting ceremonies for their new digital christmas tree and light show.

Up-to-date info available on facebook here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=41793765068#/event.php?eid=41459371261

Hope to see you there!

[citywatch]

Thanks for the pics & vids, LAB & colemonkee.

BTW, several yrs ago I saw the annual Xmas tree---the one placed next to an ice skating rink---in a certain city on the east coast that a few ppl were referring to. And esp during the daytime it isn't all that. Just a case of PR hype & yrs & yrs of it being used as a reference point, mainly cuz it's located in america's largest city.

So, in fact, I think the tree at a place like the grove here in LA actually is better since it has both lights & ornaments. By comparison, the tree on the east coast has just lights on it, & so it looks washed out & plain when viewed during the day.

And the steel tree at LA live, & surrounding lights/screens, because they all have changing displays, at least are worth watching for more than a few minutes. Ppl can look at skaters gliding around on the ice next to that tree on the east coast, but ultimately that's an activity that's better being a participant of instead of just a spectator.

What's way more important than worrying about Xmas decorations, however, is to keep an eye on things like the site of the "post no bills" wall shown in one of Colemonkee's pics. It's already been a yr since that wall went up & everyone was expecting groundbreaking on the LA Central proj. That's important to keep track of cuz in the long run, LA live, during Xmas or any other time of the yr, will be much stronger when a lot more ppl are living in the hood.

[citywatch]

There was so much activity around at night that I can totally see DTLA becoming the next biggest nightlife hot spot (rivaling Hollywood) and eventually getting some more retail options like Space 1520 that just opened up in Hollywood last week. LAB, I've seen your various pics of the Pasadena area over the months, & that hood is one of the nicer parts of LA. If more of SoCA were like that, we'd be primo, primo. However, dena (& hoods like SaMo, or around UCLA too) still have a smaller city vibe about them. Nice places to live & work, but merely one of many pieces of the puzzle instead of the whole puzzle itself.

LA continues to need a more urbanized hood, & if DTLA can't fill that requirement, than SoCA will keep giving ppl a nagging sense that something is unfinished or incomplete about LA.

[JDRCRASH]

Thanks for the nice photos, guys!:tup:
Historic District is already filled with people on the weekends looking for bargains. What do you mean by concentrated, LAB?
I count 27 floors on Concerto; so I guess its pretty much topped out?

[DJM19]

whats with the glass wall dividing the sidewalk outside of lucky strike? Is that necessary at all?

[colemonkee]

^ That glass wall is actually outside of Fleming's if I am reading the picture right. That space would be the future outdoor dining area. The sign for Lucky Strike just happens to be in the space for now, since the space in front of Lucky Strike is still cordoned off with construction fencing. LAB, correct me if I am wrong.

JDR, Concerto is topped out. 27 stories. It's always been 27 stories. Those 30 story reports were just reporters rounding up or simply reporting the wrong number. I spoke with the lead architect and got the floor count and official height over 2 years ago.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Thanks for the nice photos, guys!:tup:
Historic District is already filled with people on the weekends looking for bargains. What do you mean by concentrated, LAB?
I count 27 floors on Concerto; so I guess its pretty much topped out?

I mean that eventually, DTLA may develop a shopping district similar to Soho, Old Pasadena, Westwood Village, Union Square, or something in between all of them.

I mean, a mixture of national/regional chains and independent shops/boutiques. It seems like the only place in DTLA that will have that kind of "shopping district vibe" is the Historic Core from 3rd to Olympic, Olive to Main. As the area continues to clean up, national retailers will be more willing to open up shop in there. Concentrated basically means stores are back to back and not separated.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

You're right colemonkee. That is going to be the seating area outside of Flemings.

Lucky Strike is actually upstairs on the second floor and the only way to get there is through the alleyway off of Figueroa.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8638/img7256as8.jpg

[dktshb]

Thanks for the photo updates LAB and Colemonkey. Downtown LA is just so massive that its going to take a while to tie it all into one cohesive feeling community.

[JDRCRASH]

JDR, Concerto is topped out. 27 stories. It's always been 27 stories. Those 30 story reports were just reporters rounding up or simply reporting the wrong number. I spoke with the lead architect and got the floor count and official height over 2 years ago.

Funny why some of the blogs like angelenic haven't commented on it topping out like they did with 717 Ninth. When did it top out?

[JDRCRASH]

I mean, a mixture of national/regional chains and independent shops/boutiques. It seems like the only place in DTLA that will have that kind of "shopping district vibe" is the Historic Core from 3rd to Olympic, Olive to Main. As the area continues to clean up, national retailers will be more willing to open up shop in there. Concentrated basically means stores are back to back and not separated.

You mean like Macy's, JC Penny's, etc?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Yeah, and J. Crew, Zara, BR, H&M, Barney's Co Op, Cusp, Kitson, Ralph Lauren, Fred Segal, Ron Herman, Sony, Target, Bed Bath and Beyond, and all the other kinds of stores that open up in up-and-coming areas that you see in Hollywood or Melrose.

I also want to see cool discount thrift stores like Out of the Closet, Crossroads, American Rag, etc.

[ThreeHundred]

You also have to have a mix of businesses that people are familiar with so they could 'feed' into other places. Mervyn's..well..they're not a great example as they are bankrupt. But traditional mall shops like Forever 21, Papaya, Aeropostale, Metropark, and (my personal favorite) American Apparel. Though I'll never get used to paying $14 dollars for a pair of boxer breifs. An Apple Store would do wonders downtown. I would also love to see a Neighborhoodies as well as Bathing Ape (http://www.bape.com/). Ed Hardy and his band of ugly t-shirts can stay far away.

[JDRCRASH]

Yeah, I think i'm starting to get an even better idea of what you guys are envisioning.:yes:

Along with the restored theaters in that area, seeing the new streetcar go down Broadway with people rushing to see a play there or happily buying clothes will really help the alure of Downtown LA!

[RAlossi]

Funny why some of the blogs like angelenic haven't commented on it topping out like they did with 717 Ninth. When did it top out?

That's cos some of the blogs like angelenic only have one writer now, a full-time job and school.

[JDRCRASH]

That's cos some of the blogs like angelenic only have one writer now, a full-time job and school.

And I respect all your hard work.:tup:

[edluva]

ARCHITECTURE REVIEW
Architecture Review: L.A. Live
The massive development beside Staples Center has no sense of place.
By Christopher Hawthorne, Architecture Critic
6:58 PM PST, December 2, 2008
Los Angeles, city of enclaves, is methodically, unapologetically building itself one more. ¶ The massive $2.5-billion, 4-million-square-foot L.A. Live project on the southern edge of downtown won't be complete for another year and a half or so. But its extensive second phase, much of which will open to the public this weekend, seems to rule out for good the prospect that L.A. Live might bring a fresh, forward-looking model of mega-development to downtown. ¶ Even by the rather forgiving standards of a city whose leaders -- and whose public, for that matter -- demand little from developers when it comes to civic-minded design, the project is relentlessly focused on creating its own wholly separate commercial universe: a brighter, more strategically frenzied place than the world outside its doors. ¶ The second phase is where L.A. Live, developed by the Denver company AEG, meets the city. A pair of new buildings along Figueroa Street -- one holding an ESPN Zone restaurant and broadcast facilities for the cable-sports giant, the other one containing the Grammy Museum and Club Nokia along with restaurants, a bowling alley and office space -- forms an important urban linchpin between the development's condo and hotel tower near the freeway, which will open in early 2010, and the adjacent South Park neighborhood.

The trouble is that the new buildings -- designed by RTKL, a Baltimore-based firm that also created the master plan for L.A. Live -- have almost nothing to say to or about downtown Los Angeles. Clad in glass and panels of metal and limestone, they are adamant in their sleek placelessness. Their primary concern is matching, in palette and spirit, the Staples Center next door (which, not coincidentally, is also an AEG property).

When you get right down to it, their architecture is fundamentally not really architecture at all but an extensive series of armatures on which the developer and its tenants can hang logos, video screens and a sophisticated range of lighting effects.

Most discouraging, it is precisely the project's outdoor spaces, with their illusion of public interaction and free-flowing movement, that use those screens and that lighting to most aggressive effect. AEG has talked in encouraging terms about pursuing connections between L.A. Live and South Park. Those connections would have been an important boost to the area, because South Park, like downtown as a whole, is in the midst of a fragile transition from no-man's-land to residential center. People are beginning to fill its streets, sidewalks and cafes, but they need additional encouragement from architects, developers and planners alike.

The implications of the L.A. Live model for the future of the city are broader than they might appear. It's not simply that AEG has given Los Angeles another outdoor mall, in this case a good deal bigger and flashier than the average one. When we trap the energy of an urban crowd inside this sort of self-contained world, and when we allow developers and their architects to heighten the differences between that world and the streets around it so dramatically, we help keep the rest of our blocks underused and, as pieces of the city, undernourished.

For decades, we have largely built the city with a kind of all-or-nothing zeal, pouring money and architecture into stand-alone projects of increasingly massive scale and failing to coax developers to knit them into their neighborhoods with any real care.

For cities, the benefit of a gargantuan new development is not only the boost it gives to the tax base but also, in urban terms, its spillover effect -- energy and people flowing into the surrounding area. The entirety of the AEG development downtown -- Staples plus L.A. Live -- is designed like an airtight cruise ship, turning not a welcoming face but the architectural equivalent of a massive hull to the neighbors. Its spillover effect may be measured not in gallons but in drops.

The design of the second phase makes a number of feints in the direction of engaged, thoughtful urbanism. It has a broad open walkway between its plaza and Figueroa Street that the architects, somewhat optimistically, call a "paseo." It will have tables spilling out onto the sidewalk on Olympic Boulevard. But these gestures are overwhelmed by the larger urban stance of L.A. Live, which now seems destined to become a hermetic, inward-looking and car-centric development in the classic Southern California tradition.

In its first phase, L.A. Live unveiled a large plaza, covering nearly 2 acres, across Chick Hearn Court from Staples Center and at the foot of the Nokia Theater. The plaza was designed by L.A.'s Rios Clementi Hale Studios, the theater by a Berkeley firm, ELS. Phase two buildings have now enclosed this plaza, essentially completing it as an outdoor room.

I have written before about how the plaza, which sits entirely on property owned by the developer, creates an impressive stage-set version of a public square. The problem is not just that the space is primarily aimed at visitors to L.A. Live's concerts and restaurants rather than local apartment- and condo-dwellers; it is that it actively discourages any of the activities we traditionally associate with the use of collective space in a city: talking, reading, sitting under a tree, even pausing with a friend for a cup of coffee.

Anybody who tried to do any of those things in the L.A. Live plaza, which is filled with both yelping video displays and security guards, would look not just out of place but foolish. That is even more the case now that the second phase has added a giant video screen -- 42 feet wide -- overlooking the plaza. Another huge screen hangs from the corner of Figueroa and Chick Hearn Court.

Opening onto the paseo, about halfway between the plaza and Figueroa, is the main pedestrian entrance to the clubs and restaurants upstairs. This partially open-air series of escalators is the second phase's grandest design feature. Waiting on the third floor is the development's new star attraction: Club Nokia, an intimate venue for live performance with a steeply raked collection of seats and room for an audience of 2,300. Designed by the architecture firm Gensler, which is also designing L.A. Live's forthcoming tower, it is noticeably better executed than the building that holds it but shares the larger project's unabashed enthusiasm for velvet-rope urbanism. One more fully stocked hideaway in a city full of them.

christopher.hawthorne@ latimes.com

[edluva]

^none of hawthorne's comments are new here, especially if you've been reading my posts. especially this one:

When you get right down to it, their architecture is fundamentally not really architecture at all but an extensive series of armatures on which the developer and its tenants can hang logos, video screens and a sophisticated range of lighting effects.

i've said the exact same thing in the past - that LA live is a building designed around the ads, and not the other way around. i think it's funny how just about all the LAforumers gobble this thing up. shows that even among LA's so-called "urban enthusiasts", angelenos are quite philistine.

LA will never be a great cultural center. it may be big, it may be enormous, it may be powerful, but it will never be a great because it isn't a city of independent thinkers and visionaries. the best LA can do now, through mass trans and gentrification, is to mimic traditional urbanism, but it will always be, culturally speaking, a new york afterthought. LA live is the architectural expression of LA's habitual rehashing and selling of old ideas in bulk to the masses (eg faux-urbanist, pomo-modernist, times-square wannabe "architecture" for max profit) and if any group of people should be referred to as the masses, it is the angelenos - they succumb to mass-market crap like moths to a floodlight. LA is a symptom and a capital of humanity's wrong-turn down mass commercialization...a dumbed down and mass-produced city for dumbed down and massed-produced souls.

[ThreeHundred]

ed, who writes your material?

LA Live will never be a wonder of architecture on par with the Disney Center or the Getty Museum. It was never ment to be. People wouldn't go to LA Live to marvel at the architecture and how the ESPN Building tests the inner workings of the human mind with it's vivid gray panels and flashing lights that would make Kanye West jealous. Which is also to say that people don't go to Times Square or The Strip to marvel at a fake Paris or a giant crystal ball that drops every December 31st. People go to those places to have fun and drink Starbucks and mingle about and add life to the surrounding areas. That's all that LA Live should do and so far, is doing a decent job of doing it.

[Echo Park]

^Architecture isn't simply for art's sake or just to make something pretty. IT also has to be pragmatic and useful. It's unfortunate LA Live doesn't put a friendly inviting face on the Figueroa side, one of the more heavily traveled routes in downtown. This is basically shaping up to be Hollywood&Highland for downtown. It's too singular, too much of a "campus." Hopefully it will be mitigated when the surrounding lots get developed but I don't have much confidence in the city right now mandating some kind of civic synergy in the designs of developers (who are being subsidized by the city may I add!!).

[ThreeHundred]

But you can't argue the overwhelming impact that H & H has had on the surrounding areas despite it's giant elephants and weird layout. I'm not in love with the design for LA Live. It should've had a much more lively and flowing design as opposed to being just Staples Center's little brother (Paper Clip Center?).

But for what it is it isn't awful.

[JDRCRASH]

Look, despite L.A Live's funky looking architecture, that is only half of the equation that sums up into a place that makes people sit down, read, eat, and chat with friends. It needs to have amenities that are packed close together, not spread out like Disney World. Besides, look at where the Grammy Museam is located. It's not like everything HAS to be accessible by Figueroa.

Hm, I don't see how Hollywood & Highland Center is a bad thing; i've been there plenty of times and I can assure you that it is not a "campus". There are plenty of attractions outside the plaza that are accessible by sidewalks. Virgin Megastore, Kodak Theater, Chinese Theater, as well as a few fashion stores.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^^ If you think that LA Live "ignores" Figueroa because it's main face fronts Chick Hearn, it has little comparison to H&H where its main face actually does front Hollywood Blvd. with an easily accessible entrance with grand stairway and escalators to the businesses on the upper levels (thanks to CIM).

The flow of going in and out of H&H is very easy. There is no feeling of being "trapped" inside H&H at all. As a shopper or patron of the restaurants at H&H, you are just as apt to walk OUTSIDE of the complex to Hollywood Blvd. as you are to stay inside. Mainly because there is SO MUCH activity outside on Hollywood Blvd. now (with Zara opening up in a few weeks?) and the largest concentration of night clubs in the country, et al.

That's the key to making LA Live really complement the rest of DTLA. The parking lots surrounding LA Live must not sit undeveloped. LA Central/Jardin, as well as Metropolis must exist as their own traffic generators in order to give LA Live more meaningful context (just like H&H). The spill over effect would definitely be strong from LA Live if there was as much activity OUTSIDE as there is inside. And that's what H&H has shown us within Southern California's anti-walking culture.

[Just-In-Cali]

^ LA is a symptom and a capital of humanity's wrong-turn down mass commercialization...a dumbed down and mass-produced city for dumbed down and massed-produced souls.

Wow,

Nice article, for like minded people I suppose. But then to call all people in the city "dumb", except for the people who worship your mindset, aka "New York types", and then tell us how wrong we are for disagreeing with you based on the fact, basically...that..."you said so."
Thats taking it a bit far, isnt it? :koko:

I found the article interesting, but not all that objective, since many people especially people that fancy themselves experts on "culture" have a complex in the Sunbelt cities about not being more "New York" like. This obsession to have this image that has been pushed as "the only way a city or society can be" is somewhat tiresome.
Im surprised many of people with this condition havent jumped off a bridge, since they are so rampantly unhappy living in these places.
Great points to make about the flaws with LA Live, many of them valid...but to simply write everyone who doesnt think like you off as being dumb...that shows a LARGE amount of insecurity that cant be cured simply by creating some mock-up of 5th Ave, NY here in Los Angeles to help you all get over your infeority complexes.

[edluva]

^justincali - your argument is the exact same argumet which allows biased sunbelters to justify horrid architecture and environmentally destructive planning in one fell swoop. just replace "los angeles" with "houston" and you'd be on your way

noone is worshipping ny. they are lamenting poor taste and vision. you speak as though that doesn't exist in general. the fact that LA is defined by that is no endorsement of NY - where did you get that one? but hey, if you love it, who's to argue taste right? LA will continue to be philistine to the rest of the like-minded world, lol. and angelenos are in general, "dumber" than new yorkers, londoners, or san franciscans - you can even cite our lower education levels, and i guarantee you we'd score among the lowest in political or geography trivia, but i'm sure we're in agreement there. there is a kernel of truth in all stereotypes. LA didn't earn hers for nothing. i think it's funny people like you defend LA from regular attacks, and yet continue to scratch your heads at why they originate. we're so clueless it's ironic.

threehundred - for what it is? what is it? *LA's* crack and urbanism? in that case, i suppose you're right then.

echopark - i agree with your assesment of architecture. the only problem is there's barely any at LA live. it's covered in LED and vinyl.

[Just-In-Cali]

I just wonder then, edluva, if we are all so stupid, cheap, tasteless and inept at functioning in reality and have no concept of deep thought and culture...why is it you continue back into this forum time and again to spout with your opinions?
Is it maybe that IN REAL LIFE...no one listens to you?
Just a thought.

[ladowntowner]

and angelenos are in general, "dumber" than new yorkers, londoners, or san franciscans - you can even cite our lower education levels, and i guarantee you we'd score among the lowest in political or geography trivia, but i'm sure we're in agreement there. there is a kernel of truth in all stereotypes. LA didn't earn hers for nothing. i think it's funny people like you defend LA from regular attacks, and yet continue to scratch your heads at why they originate. we're so clueless it's ironic.
L.A. has a MASSIVELY HUGE influx of poor, undereducated third-world immigrants - much larger than any of the other cities cited, on a percentage basis - so saying that we have lower education levels in general, while it may be true, is quite unfair and misleading. I often agree with much of what you have to say, but this particular mantra of yours is getting old. Stereotypes do have a kernel of truth, sure, but never tell the whole story - things are never that simple. You are an intelligent voice here, but this is a cheap shot at trying to prove your point. I'm sure you're able to do better than this.

[Just-In-Cali]

I give up on it, really. LA Live is a love it or leave it type thing.
'edluva' can have his opinion...I can have mine...but I'm not stupid just because I differ. As far as Los Angeles having a "stupider" population than lets say Chicago or NY or even Boston...that is a "stereotype" that is outdated. New Yorkers are smart, yes, as long as you stay south of 157th on Manhattan. Go have a conversation in the Bronx or north Brooklyn...you might be surprised how similar they sound to the "dumb" people. If you leave 'The Loop' of Chicago, you may find a redneck.
LA is no different...the west side, downtown, the rim of the Valley, and the beach areas probably hold their own very well against these "smarter" cities.
DTLA...again...is a product of thoughtless civic planning and urban decentralization that rose during the Sunbelt's birth. It has much to learn and to be fixed...but flash back to 1986 NY...it was considered one of the worst cities in the nation...even with all that "brilliant" city planning that apparently created it. It is possible, after all, to see the potential in this city,a nd its mountains of flaws, without hating everything about it.

[yeah215]

I just thought I would chime in. I really think LA Live would have done much better if it broke up the project and had different buildings designed by different architects in different styles. This would have made the entire area feel much more organic and diverse. Part of the problem is that that all of the buildings look the same, have the same type of ads and the same type of screens. If there was some diversity in this, that would make a huge difference. The complex would seem less like a single, insular project and more like a neighborhood. There is still potential. As Fig Central, Fig South, and some of other projects come on line, the LA Live area may expand and seem less like a single entity and more like an urban district. But even still, breaking up the project would have helped a great deal.

[JDRCRASH]

^The problem is, when it comes to signs, some here on this particular thread don't agree. Many think that you should have advertisments dedicated primarily to the development itself and what it provides.

L.A. has a MASSIVELY HUGE influx of poor, undereducated third-world immigrants - much larger than any of the other cities cited, on a percentage basis - so saying that we have lower education levels in general, while it may be true, is quite unfair and misleading. I often agree with much of what you have to say, but this particular mantra of yours is getting old. Stereotypes do have a kernel of truth, sure, but never tell the whole story - things are never that simple. You are an intelligent voice here, but this is a cheap shot at trying to prove your point. I'm sure you're able to do better than this.

I agree; Ed, you need to stop generalizing with that "angelenos are dumb" rant.

[futurearchie317]

Agreed.

My two cents:

LA Live certainly would feel more 'real' if it incorporated multiple architects and/or styles. I'm really torn about the project. On one hand, it is a contrived quasi-urban development that is more similar to the Grove or the Beverly Center than most of us care to admit. Just as those developments are muddled attempts at replicating a European shopping district and the Pompidou Center in Paris, respectively, LA Live will always come of as a Times Square wannabe. I'm tempted to say the only difference between LA Live and the other two Los Angeles architectural disasters is its location. That being said, these developments do tend to generate organic growth that ultimately make up for them. The example of H & H someone previously mentioned is a good one. After all, there is a long history in urban planning of inserting projects in neglected areas as a means to an end and not as THE end (ever wonder why the Sears Tower is in the part of Chicago it is?) My point is, we probably will have to wait and see what happens. With perspective, things might change. For everyone worried about the building being designed around the advertisements, think how ridiculous the Hollywood(land) sign would have seemed were we around at its conception. People on this forum would have said its an ode to commercialism that belongs in Vegas. Now, its a historical icon.

One more thing thats been bothering me (I check out SSP all the time although I rarely post): can we please stop with this pretentious, faux-urban-elite, I-secretly-wish-I-lived-in-NYC bullshit about referring to places like West Hollywood and Santa Monica as WeHO and SaMo. The names of the districts around here are part of what makes LA unique and they work just fine. You people who attempt to inject urbanism into Santa Monica by calling it SaMo are no different than those insecure douche bags who drive jacked up pickup trucks with 30in wheels as a means of compensating for having a small penis. Sorry for the rant. Cheers.

[Westsidelife]

^ Regarding LA Live, I couldn't agree more with all your points.

As for WeHo and SaMo, they're nicknames. None of us coined them.

[Just-In-Cali]

I never wanted to live in New York..I enjoy having a tan and a good disposition too much. LOL
But I can agree 100 percent with your statement on LA Live. If its a dismal failure, we can all say I told you so. But the alternative would have been to keep an empty parking lot there and have NO growth. Its unique...uninspired, but unapologetic...and holds a charm that may yet be fully recognized.
Times Square didnt always look the way it does now...LA Live will evolve as well.

[makoy731]

I never wanted to live in New York..I enjoy having a tan and a good disposition too much. LOL
But I can agree 100 percent with your statement on LA Live. If its a dismal failure, we can all say I told you so. But the alternative would have been to keep an empty parking lot there and have NO growth. Its unique...uninspired, but unapologetic...and holds a charm that may yet be fully recognized.
Times Square didnt always look the way it does now...LA Live will evolve as well.

I agree. I think we need to give LA Live a chance. Look at how many conventions it's helping bring in. More conventions means more business and tourists for downtown LA. It will eventually have it's spill over effect we all hope for.

[kaneui]

Since everyone's weighing in on LA Live, as a former resident I'll throw in my two bits. I agree that most of the low-rise architecture is pretty forgettable, and the project is mostly turned in on itself, as previously noted. However, with the convention center to the south, the freeway to the west, and empty blocks to the north and east, at present there really isn't much for the complex to relate to, so I suppose some of its design flaws can be forgiven. The hotel and residences tower, however, is a keeper, with a sleek and elegant design that would be an asset in any city.

We need to remember that L.A. is a very young metropolis when compared to older, established "world class" cities, and still in the throes of figuring out its own style and vernacular when it comes to urban design and function. Obviously, downtown has a ways to go before achieving a palpable 24/7 urban vibe, but there has been a fair bit of progress in that direction over the last 15-20 years.

[citywatch]

L.A. has a MASSIVELY HUGE influx of poor, undereducated third-world immigrants -
If the SSPer in question had his comments held to a more candid and explicit description of LA's population, he probably would look down, gulp nervously and then quickly change the subject. That certainly would be his reaction if he were standing in the middle of a crowd of precious, yakkity yak intellectuals, all dressed in black & putting on airs.

And saying things like: the problem with LA is that beverly Hills is too much like Mission viejo. And Mission Viejo is too much like Beverly Hills. oh, so gauche. oh, so declasse.

Or: LA is bad & horrible because....

....in short, a sum of human relations, which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use seem firm, canonical, and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins.

We still do not know where the urge for truth comes from; for as yet we have heard only of the obligation imposed by society that it should exist: to be truthful means using the customary metaphors - in moral terms, the obligation to lie according to fixed convention, to lie herd-like in a style obligatory for all...

"I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?

All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment...

Behold, I teach you the overman. The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.

What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.

Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.

'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...

One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion..................

[citywatch]

The problem with critics like Christopher Hawthorne is they never extend their complaints far enough. OK, so LA live isn't perfect. OK, so LA Live's architecture isn't this or that. OK, so it's not open enough. And it isn't friendly enough to ppl walking around the hood, on Fig or other streets. Fine.

But while you're pointing daggers at the devlpr of new projs like LA live, how about also pointing a laser gun at the junkola directly across the street from LA Live? How about pointing at all the raunchy shack bldgs---the ugly tire store, the lousy car wash, the fleabag apt houses----& parking lots that still make up, & surround, far too much of DT?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Because those are the status quo features of LA that people become accustomed to and they get used to it. Most people, who aren't urbanists, don't even realize that parking lots are in DTLA. They see them as necessities - not as land with potential for infill development.

When something new like LA Live does come on and make an appearance, you're definitely going to get commentary. And in the case of LA Live, most people are saying it's too insular when this same project could very well be dropped in somewhere like Tokyo and it wouldn't even make a difference because it's so dense and people are everywhere.

[DaveofCali]

What the hell is everyone doing here judging LA Live before it even fully opens?

L.A. live never was meant to be an architectural masterpiece. L.A. Live was made to give people a place to hang out in Downtown L.A., especially after a sports game, a trade show event, or a concert, in addition to itself being an entertainment center. Of much of what Downtown L.A. offers, it doesn't really feel like it offers a place to hang out. L.A. live is also meant to be part of a larger shopping / entertainment district that will be built around it (hopefully when L.A. Central gets built). How many cities have a convention center, a sports arena, and a large amphitheater just all beside each other? Ever since I saw the huge crowds after a basketball game in Staples Center go out with nowhere to go did I think that there should be some kind of place for these people to go after the game. You guys can't judge L.A. Live before it even opens!!!

[ocman]

The problem is not just that the space is primarily aimed at visitors to L.A. Live's concerts and restaurants rather than local apartment- and condo-dwellers; it is that it actively discourages any of the activities we traditionally associate with the use of collective space in a city: talking, reading, sitting under a tree, even pausing with a friend for a cup of coffee.



These types of places are psychologically hostile. You have to mentally prepare yourself before going. Sadly, LA Live will only attract people who come for an exceptional purpose. It just takes too much effort to get to and too much effort to leave. Undoubtedly it'll benefit conventioneers or sports fans, but that was the purpose to begin with. Hopefully the area surrounding LA live can evolve to a point where out-of-towners will have enough options where they won't feel forced to contain themselves in this complex.

[JDRCRASH]

I never wanted to live in New York..I enjoy having a tan and a good disposition too much. LOL
But I can agree 100 percent with your statement on LA Live. If its a dismal failure, we can all say I told you so. But the alternative would have been to keep an empty parking lot there and have NO growth. Its unique...uninspired, but unapologetic...and holds a charm that may yet be fully recognized.
Times Square didnt always look the way it does now...LA Live will evolve as well.

We we're talking about Edluva. It's pretty clear that he either wants to move to the Big Apple but won't because it's too expensive where he wants to live; or, could it be, in fact, that he IS a former New Yorker and regrets that he left?:whip:

Anyways, Times Square originated over a century ago(though it wasn't all that much until the teens, quite frankly). Actually, what could be of more interest is that the first advertisment came almost exactly 100 years before the same time L.A. Live broke ground....hmm...

It just takes too much effort to get to and too much effort to leave. Undoubtedly it'll benefit conventioneers or sports fans, but that was the purpose to begin with. Hopefully the area surrounding LA live can evolve to a point where out-of-towners will have enough options where they won't feel forced to contain themselves in this complex.

This is where a better transportation system comes into play.....a much better one; better than the one Measure R would bring. It also shows that L.A. Central and South Figueroa need to have things that draw people there, too.

And this also might be why I think the parking lots and the Holiday Inn hotel on the block south of 717 Olympic should be torn down and replaced by a couple of 60-story towers (or four 30-story towers) and maybe connected by a 7-story atrium shopping Mall like the one that will go up in West L.A.

[blogdowntown]

With L.A. Live having its "grand opening" today (as much as there can be one for a complex that opens one piece at a time), I just posted a rundown going through the status of the various parts of the complex.

http://blogdowntown.com/2008/12/3853-grand-opening-day-for-la-live

Highlights:
* Light of the Angels lighting tonight.
* Only ESPN Zone is up and running on the restaurant front (not counting Boca, inside the Conga Room)
* Starbucks is open
* Ritz tower will be topping off next week
* Three of the four venues at the complex will be holding shows tonight

[JDRCRASH]

I will say it is a little ironic that "the lighting of the angels" is only a day after the Christmas tree lighting on Rockefelller Center....oh well...

Oh and when exactly will ESPN officially start broadcasting from the complex in 2009?

[colemonkee]

Citations have been issued for personal attacks in this thread. The next member to do so will be suspended for 10 days. No exceptions. Keep it clean.

[Just-In-Cali]

Its refreshing seeing a thread of common sense flow here in large numbers again.
I agree with LAB, Citywatch, ocman, DoC, kaneui, and JD all have to say in many respects.
What this all comes down to is time, patience, and investment. You cannot judge the whole area on one development. The original WTC had the same problem...a megablock that was raised, cut off from the street grid, isolated and very stark in design...yet it was eventually loved by the city, and then sadly, mourned. It didnt ruin Lower Manhattan though...it sparked more growth in the area that led to its resurgence as the financial hub that it is...when at the time, it was filled with low budget stores and empty 60's towers.
The reason LA Live seems so stand alone is...cuz...it IS stand alone right now. Try to imagine it as a single facet in a large district, and I can see where it could be nicely integrated. It will have the "Tommorowland sitting next to Fantasyland" look to it, but will be visually interesting, to say the least. It is far from ideal...and the imposing starkness can be off putting to the casual observer...but its only a very first step.
I'm going down there on Sat to see it all for myself with its holiday decor.

[Just-In-Cali]

May I also add, and this is my opinion...I believe had this exact same development been built in one of the "real" cities that keep getting mentioned, NY, Chicago, Boston, etc...these same critics would hail it as a marvel of design and modern thinking.
I think it has been long known that, at least among the so called "elite" thinkers, Los Angeles has been the perennial whipping boy of metropolis'. Anything done here, no matter how good or not...is always treated as the "mindless spreading of the vapid lifestyle that consumes LA"
They only time LA gets credit is if it tries to mimic one of these other places...which I personally hate even more.
I think it comes from the fact that the lovers of the "traditional" world cities are so bugged by the fact that LA unashamedly develops outside of that image, and does so with a measure of success. It doesnt have to mimic any of these places...it became a top ranked "world city" on its own merits...and that pisses off the traditionalists to no end. Its like the head cheerleader watching the "tom boy" surfer chick win Prom Queen...its not, in their mind, SUPPOSED to happen, because those arent the rules.
Thats my rant...(pants) Sorry!

[JDRCRASH]

You know, Hovton on Angelenic made an important analysis not too long ago. He said that if this town wants to be liked for what it is, it has to change the perception of what people around the world have thought of Los Angeles for the last eighty-something years, not only in development, but in how we view each other, lifestyles, transportation, the environment, etc.

He mentioned that if it does manage to pull it off in that regard, it could be the biggest change a major city and it's inhabitants have gone through since New York did in post-WWI era.

[JDRCRASH]

Economy could make it hard for L.A. Live to be the life of the downtown party

Expectations for the high-end entertainment complex have been high since work began three years ago, but the downturn is putting more pressure on it to be a success.

By Cara Mia DiMassa
December 3, 2008

When L.A. Live, the $2.5-billion entertainment district across from Staples Center, first broke ground in September 2005, downtown Los Angeles was riding high, and the sky seemed the limit.

Block by block, decades of grime were being replaced by trendy eateries, loft dwellers and their dogs. Thirty-two skyscrapers were in the planning phases. And L.A. Live, with clubs, restaurants, convention-center hotels and a 30,000-square-foot Grammy museum, was being called Times Square West.

Three years later, as L.A. Live celebrates its opening beginning today, the mood in downtown is decidedly different. The building boom has slowed, and some landmark projects, including Frank Gehry's Grand Avenue and the 77-story Park Fifth tower, have been delayed.

In many ways, the economic downturn is putting more pressure on L.A. Live to succeed, with many hoping the entertainment complex will be the draw downtown boosters have often said the city center needs.

"We always felt the pressure that we were important to the event business, to the tourism business," said Timothy Leiweke, president and chief executive of the Anschutz Entertainment Group, which owns both L.A. Live and Staples Center. "But add to that the stress of the economy -- it puts an even bigger burden on us. There are more expectations on us. We are the lone one standing in terms of getting this entertainment district built, while others have had to be put on the back burner or delayed."(refering to L.A. Central?)

These days, there is a slightly Dickensian feel amid the flashing screens and curved lines of L.A. Live.

On the one hand, L.A. Live is a VIP's nirvana, with creature comforts built into most of the complex's venues. There's the small theater inside the 30,000-square-foot Grammy Museum where a publicist promises that Justin Timberlake might give an intimate concert for a few close friends after doing an arena show at Staples Center or Nokia Theatre across the way. In the luxe VIP space inside the Conga Room, owners Jimmy Smits and Jennifer Lopez might hold private parties, on display in a fishbowl-like space with a glass wall separating them from the rest of the club. And, it is suggested, Christina Aguilera or Kanye West might bring a few friends after a concert to the exclusive area inside the cavernous Lucky Strikes bowling alley and bar, with two separate lanes and bar marked by white leather couches.

At the same time, L.A. Live has been facing the challenge of marketing a venue that is trying to be upscale in an area that is not completely upscale itself. The Los Angeles Police Department has been working closely with AEG to ensure that there is a heavy security presence around the complex. And AEG helped fund a state-of-the-art LAPD substation in Staples Center, complete with a "smart board" to display crime and deployment information and a LiveScan fingerprint machine.

The LAPD plans to have 12 to 18 officers at L.A. Live, depending on what events are planned. In addition, the department is sometimes posting undercover vice officers in L.A. Live's clubs, hoping to crack down on public drunkenness, drug sales and other crimes before they spread, as well as a team on the lookout for drunk drivers leaving the clubs and another focused on possible gang activity.

Officials said L.A. Live is something new to them: An upscale, adult-oriented, alcohol-rich venue without the barriers of a Universal CityWalk or Irvine Spectrum and near some tough neighborhoods.

"It's a challenging job, because it's unknown to us," said LAPD Capt. Jodi Wakefield.

Police presence

At 8:40 p.m. on a recent Wednesday, LAPD Sgt. Kathy McAnany was finishing a Red Bull with a straw as she monitored activity at L.A. Live. Like the officers she commands as part of a special entertainment unit operating out of L.A. Live, McAnany was wearing a gold pin on her uniform, the arching angel that is the L.A. Live logo.

The officers in the special unit have skills that range from fluency in Chinese and Korean to anti-terrorism. They train in crowd control and in recognizing possible suicide bombers or IEDs.

McAnany sometimes sounds like a booster for the project. "I'm so happy with what's going on," she said at one point. "It's going to generate so much revenue."

Still, she was focused on keeping things under control. Club Nokia had opened a few weeks earlier, and that night, rapper Nas was on stage. A text message from an officer inside the venue told McAnany that three people had been ejected from the club for intoxication.

A few hundred feet away, the Nokia Theatre was relatively calm -- unless you count the few thousand screaming women who were cheering for New Kids on the Block as they danced and gyrated across the stage. And a Clippers game at Staples Center was about to come down to the wire.

McAnany was not taking chances, though. A large police van, nicknamed "Old Blue," was parked between the Nokia Theatre and Staples, manned by one of the detail's officers. And three black-and-white patrol cars were stationed nearby. Two uniformed officers were posted outside Club Nokia's main entrance, and another two outside the club's separate entry for VIPs, in addition to the venue's own security. Guards used hand-held metal detectors to check each person as they entered the venue. "Everyone gets wanded," McAnany said. "Even the VIPs."

Standing out

The 4-million-square-foot L.A. Live complex marks a distinct shift in the type of development downtown L.A. has witnessed during its nearly decade-long revitalization. The changes began small, with old bank buildings being remade as residential lofts, and eventually grew to include some ground-up construction. New residents, many of them young professionals drawn to the city life who didn't mind some of its hassles, flocked to the area, which now has a population of nearly 40,000.

But L.A. Live is on an entirely different scale than those previous efforts, and it is focused both on drawing suburbanites and tourists into the city center and serving the nearly 50,000 college students that AEG estimates live or go to school in the area.

It is also distinctly high-end, with a 123-room Ritz-Carlton hotel and 224 upscale condos that share the hotel's staff and amenities. Those parts of L.A. Live are still under construction and scheduled to open in 2010.

"It's different from the rest of downtown, but it is very much becoming part of downtown," said Tom Gilmore, who developed some of the first loft conversions in the Old Bank District.

The biggest question for now is how L.A. Live will fare with the economic downturn.

The complex is packed with the kind of high-end establishments that do well in good times but not always in bad times. They include the Conga Room nightclub, Lucky Strike Lanes & Lounge, and Club Nokia -- and eventually restaurants like the Yard House, the Farm of Beverly Hills, Fleming's Prime Steakhouse, Lawry's Carvery and Trader Vic's. A West Coast broadcast center for ESPN is at one end of the complex, with an ESPN Zone restaurant and bar on the ground floor.


But AEG and downtown boosters are counting on the cachet of the scene -- entertainment award shows, including the Grammys and the Emmys, at the Nokia Theatre; the Lakers, Clippers and Kings next door at Staples Center; and concerts and live broadcasts from the plaza -- to draw people from across Southern California and beyond.

"No one wants to go into the eye of the storm," Leiweke said. "You certainly don't want a hurricane. And that's what we see with the economy. . . . That's why you are seeing us producing the extravaganzas. We have to capture people's attention, and draw people down here."

DiMassa is a Times staff writer.

cara.dimassa@latimes.com


Another enclave
L.A. Live is not of the city, critic writes. CALENDAR, E1 (oh god, you have to read this, guys)


Grammy Museum
Visitors can interact with recordings. CALENDAR, E11

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Its like the head cheerleader watching the "tom boy" surfer chick win Prom Queen...its not, in their mind, SUPPOSED to happen, because those arent the rules.


:haha: I agree. However, even though LA became a quasi-world city on its own (mostly due to the presence of Hollywood IMO), it definitely needs the extensive mass transit to truly become a bonafide world city. As Measure R allows transit to be expanded (most importantly the Wilshire and Weho subways), it will do for LA what no building in the world can do - foster a TRANSIT CULTURE. That's the key here, it's not about if some place is walkable or not, but if a culture exists for walking, which is made possible by subways and compact urban design. It's about losing the ANCHOR that is your car. Your car is essentially an anchor in LA, which doesn't allow you to walk far from it. Let's not mention that most parking lots in the city are private and are "For Customers Only." So the fact that you might have to drive across the street to another store (or risk getting towed) says a lot about why our streets are so "empty" compared to so many other wonderful cities. And why we drive so much. It's a dysfunctional system that needs to be rectified and resolved through subways/LRT.

Also, I'd like to point out that it's also about IF people are willing to ride public transit. If you look at the Latino areas near DTLA, you'll see that it is BUSTLING on the streets with people WALKING everywhere! It's because they actually take transit! It's not impossible. They may not be able to afford cars, but it just means that HYPOTHETICALLY, everyone in LA could be taking PT, but they don't! Our streets could be filled with as many people as the Latino areas, but they aren't. One of the main reasons behind this -- besides most of LA just being not all that walkable/pedestrian friendly -- is the STIGMA attached to riding buses (the main vehicle of PT in LA). It means "I can't afford a car" in many people's minds still. That needs to be changed. And it SEEMS that most people don't have a stigma against riding the subway/LRT. So I do predict that as the Expo Line and Eastside Gold Line extension starts to operate, we will see some major changes in transit happens as our NETWORK continues to grow. USC will be one of Metro's largest customers by far. How many students who don't have cars will now be able to hop on the Expo Line to LA Live, Hollywood, Pasadena, Koreatown, Pico/Sepulveda, Culver City, and eventually SM? THOU$AND$ will.

But it won't be until Wilshire Blvd. completes its first phase to LACMA that we'll REALLY start to see MAJOR SIGNIFICANT changes to the CULTURE of LA. A culture of walking.

[Echo Park]

The problem with critics like Christopher Hawthorne is they never extend their complaints far enough. OK, so LA live isn't perfect. OK, so LA Live's architecture isn't this or that. OK, so it's not open enough. And it isn't friendly enough to ppl walking around the hood, on Fig or other streets. Fine.

But while you're pointing daggers at the devlpr of new projs like LA live, how about also pointing a laser gun at the junkola directly across the street from LA Live? How about pointing at all the raunchy shack bldgs---the ugly tire store, the lousy car wash, the fleabag apt houses----& parking lots that still make up, & surround, far too much of DT?

Hey guy, it's an architectural review not a city review

[Echo Park]

I think what edluva means by our city being dumb is not that we have this huge immigrant influx or that its largely a blue-collar city, although that is certainly a big factor, but what I derive from the 'intelligence' of our city doesn't necessarily come from those demographics, but the actual educated people themselves, particularly our civic leaders who demand so little and the developers they befriend who have hollow visions for our city. I know these developers build projects in cities across the country, even beloved NYC. It's just that the people who run this city are very shortsighted, they just want to hit home runs with these mega projects and have developers dictate our civic identity. I wish we'd reward projects to more daring architects, or rather than try to hit homeruns, just start with policy changes to make it easier to build more infill, more small projects, get organic growth going (the area around 4th and main is a good example of something resembling an actual neighborhood). I know thats what our city is trying to do to get rid of the bureaucratic hurdles to secure permits et al (though they should be trying harder and leave NIMBYs out of the discussion completely). but it's just this mindset that these megaprojects are going to singlehandedly turn us into a real city. I know the forumers here at SSP don't really subscribe to that idea, but civic boosters and civic leaders in this city actually do.

[Echo Park]

May I also add, and this is my opinion...I believe had this exact same development been built in one of the "real" cities that keep getting mentioned, NY, Chicago, Boston, etc...these same critics would hail it as a marvel of design and modern thinking.
I think it has been long known that, at least among the so called "elite" thinkers, Los Angeles has been the perennial whipping boy of metropolis'. Anything done here, no matter how good or not...is always treated as the "mindless spreading of the vapid lifestyle that consumes LA"
They only time LA gets credit is if it tries to mimic one of these other places...which I personally hate even more.
I think it comes from the fact that the lovers of the "traditional" world cities are so bugged by the fact that LA unashamedly develops outside of that image, and does so with a measure of success. It doesnt have to mimic any of these places...it became a top ranked "world city" on its own merits...and that pisses off the traditionalists to no end. Its like the head cheerleader watching the "tom boy" surfer chick win Prom Queen...its not, in their mind, SUPPOSED to happen, because those arent the rules.
Thats my rant...(pants) Sorry!

You're really just proving edluvas points by not addressing anything he said, taking it personally and then deflection personal attacks back. Your posts are almost entirely conjecture and assumptions. Other cities were only brought into this conversation because you introduced them. No one else was talking about New York or San Francisco until you mentioned them. It really proves edluvas point that everything we do in LA, we do it in relation or reaction to more established cities. It's a constant comparison only if you allow it to be.

Speaking of that, did anyone see that 8 page advertising section for LA Live in the LA Times recently? There were more than several mentions of "Times Square of the West." It just made me real embarrassed for the project.

I hope this recession doesn't last long so projects like Herald Examiner tower and 8th and Grand may see light again and get built so there could actually be some good new architecture in DTLA.

[JDRCRASH]

The problem with L.A. being itself is....**ehem**(clears throat) that means encouraging car use and suburban expansion.

Speaking of that, did anyone see that 8 page advertising section for LA Live in the LA Times recently? There were more than several mentions of "Times Square of the West." It just made me real embarrassed for the project.

Yes, I got it in the Newspaper. It went so far as to say that it is more than just "Times Square West". And remember, this was the Los Angeles Times....a major newspaper....which means millions of people are bound to read it around the country.


I hope this recession doesn't last long so projects like Herald Examiner tower and 8th and Grand may see light again and get built so there could actually be some good new architecture in DTLA.

Yeah; I for one am getting sick of hearing about this delay shit.:brickwall:

[ThreeHundred]

^ It isn't just in LA. Phoenix has canceled NUMEROUS projects, and in Chicago, the Spire is a hole in the ground and Waterview is just a concrete parking lot with no signs of restarting. It's countrywide.

[JDRCRASH]

Don't forget the Freedom Tower; its not expected to make the 10th anniversary date of 9/11.

[Just-In-Cali]

You're really just proving edluvas points by not addressing anything he said, taking it personally and then deflection personal attacks back. Your posts are almost entirely conjecture and assumptions. Other cities were only brought into this conversation because you introduced them. No one else was talking about New York or San Francisco until you mentioned them. It really proves edluvas point that everything we do in LA, we do it in relation or reaction to more established cities. It's a constant comparison only if you allow it to be..

Actually, Echo, it was edluva himself that first brough NY into the convo. I would ask you, what point is being proved of edluva's? My posts are conjecture, and your and edluva's posts are, what?...civic gospal that should be carved into stone for the masses? :haha:
I take nothing personally...this is just a forum or people give random opinions on things that they have little to no influence over. I know you two are kinda "birds of a feather" in here, and thats fine. As far as any comments...its all basically conjecture, since no one really has HARD facts on anything they are speaking of. And I didnt mention San Francisco either, for the record. As far as LA "reacting" to other places...hmm...kinda like NY reacted to London, or Chicago to NY, or Las Vegas to Los Angeles, and so on. The only conclusion to all of your and his arguements are, if LA is doing it so wrong, then someone must be doing it so right...thus implying a comparison. You at least showed some level of respect Echo when responding to me, ed didnt. I know he does it to get reactions, but we are all adults here, right?
But, if you guys dont like LA Live, thats fine, dont go there. If the city isnt a "true" city, great...dont live here, and if we, as people in a forum dont suit your tastes for conversation, then wonderful, go somewhere else. But if you can deal with differing opinions in a respectful way, the by all means, lets chat.

[JDRCRASH]

Yeah, let's try chatting on that article I just posted.:D

[Echo Park]

But, if you guys dont like LA Live, thats fine, dont go there. If the city isnt a "true" city, great...dont live here, and if we, as people in a forum dont suit your tastes for conversation, then wonderful, go somewhere else. But if you can deal with differing opinions in a respectful way, the by all means, lets chat.

C'mon enough with this. I deal with differing opinions just fine. I'm not the one taking it personally, I'm just making clear I disagree with you. Messageboards are for exchanging ideas so don't give me this. And the reasons I live in and love LA have not much to do with the urban form though I am fascinated with it regardless (this is the assumptions I was talking about, that I must hate LA just because I dont like LA Live).

Though you telling me not to visit LA Live was interesting cause it made me think. I'm a Lakers fan and I've been to a few shows at Nokia Theater already so I will be coming to LA Live occasionally thank you very much. But the thing is last night I went to a concert at the Gibson Amphitheatre last night and it made me recall going to Nokia for a show earlier this year. The experience of walking through CityWalk to get to the Amphitheatre and the impression it left on me was not too unlike getting to the Nokia Theatre. All the glitzy lights, the feeling of walking through an amusement park backlot, being isolated from the rest of the city, they felt very similar. It felt more like an amusement park than being a big city.

[Just-In-Cali]

C'mon enough with this. I deal with differing opinions just fine. I'm not the one taking it personally, I'm just making clear I disagree with you. Messageboards are for exchanging ideas so don't give me this. And the reasons I live in and love LA have not much to do with the urban form though I am fascinated with it regardless (this is the assumptions I was talking about, that I must hate LA just because I dont like LA Live).

. It felt more like an amusement park than being a big city.

Well, was it at least as amusing as an amusement park?

:pet:


And, to put an end to this latest battle of the forum wars...I was not saying...and im surprised I have to say this, cuz you are obviously an intelligent person...that you must like LA Live to like the city, or must dislike the city if you dont like the project. I know you think deeper than that.
But we can dipense of this back and forth and whom said what...Im sure the rest of the forumers are tired of reading it.