[djerniepearl]

When I go to LA Lve I always park on the lot on Olympic and Flower (2blks east of LA Live) right across from The RESERVE LOFTS and it only costs me $5 bucks. If you look around that area, there are plenty and plenty of parking lots.:cool:

[Tanster]

maybe the High parking cost will make people take transit more!

[Just-In-Cali]

When I go to LA Lve I always park on the lot on Olympic and Flower (2blks east of LA Live) right across from The RESERVE LOFTS and it only costs me $5 bucks. If you look around that area, there are plenty and plenty of parking lots.:cool:

BUT YOU CANT SAY THAT DJERNIEPEARL!!!:tantrum:
People here need something to bitch about on a daily basis! If you tell them how to solve problems...they...they might actually get over some of them and shut up! YOU CANT DO THAT TO THEM!!!
Think of the children!
;)

[ChrisLA]

BUT YOU CANT SAY THAT DJERNIEPEARL!!!:tantrum:
People here need something to bitch about on a daily basis! If you tell them how to solve problems...they...they might actually get over some of them and shut up! YOU CANT DO THAT TO THEM!!!
Think of the children!
;)

First of all you don't even know me well enough to make such a rude remark. I'm not a kid either, and most likely older than the majority of you all. Personally I don't have a problem using public transportation. I used it all my life, as well as since I've been an adult, commutting to work via the train.
I also grew up quite poor (Watts, South Central) so I have dealt with quite a bit in life. So my few times I complain, I do think I'm entitled to it. Beside those who know me on this board, knows I'm not a complainer.

What I have done is formed an opinion about the flaws of the project. I'm one of has always been pro development in downtown. Most likely a lot long than you been alive. I have also listen to others who don't normally go downtown all that much. Each one of them didn't think it was worth visiting all that much for how it is now.

Anyway I rarely complain, and normally go with a positive approach. Yet I know that most Angelenos just won't visit, because they love their cars. The won't take public transportation there either, not when other area have the easier parking, and cheaper. No not for what things they offer at LA Live when you can go in your own neighborhood for the same.

If you want them to come, (this is LA) they most certainly will have to offer something more to get those outside downtown to come. Until L.A stop making it easier for those with cars, we will always have this problem. Until then, at least give the people some incentive to want to come, and not charge $40 on top of what else they have to pay for dinning and entertainment.

djerniepearl: BTW I doubt the parking was $5 the day I was there. The Lakers game was going on and all of the lots several blocks away were no less than $15. In fact my nephew came down that night and I called him and warn him not to park at LA Live. He ended up paying $20 near by.

[lawfin]

Perhaps when gas moves back north of 3 or 4 per gallon they may change their tune...

I liked it when gas was that high fewer cars on the road....the less to hit me with

[Just-In-Cali]

[QUOTE=ChrisLA;3982344]First of all you don't even know me well enough to make such a rude remark. I'm not a kid either, and most likely older than the majority of you all. QUOTE]


Lets break this down, shall we?

I did'nt direct the comment at you...if I had your name would have been included, so direct your ire elsewhere. Second, I dont know who called you kid, but it wasnt me, so please read a little more carefully. :sly:
I have no ill will towards you...I dont know you. It was meant as a humorful jab at the well known complainers that swoop into this forum daily to whine about something or other. Thats all. And as far as your age, childhood, and experience...no one questioned it..so being defensive and trying to draw comparisons with people you DONT know is just a little off topic.

[djerniepearl]

Not to toot my own horn but I've been pro-downtown since I was a 12-14 yrd old kid visiting downtown maybe 4-6 times per year on a sunday. Back then (late 70's) My parents would wake us up early sunday morning and since we grew up in El Monte, we would drive to the former R.T.D. Bus terminal near downtown El Monte and catch the Fwy Express Bus that would take the El Monte Busway to downtown. I even remember the RTD buses that were used to travel on the Busway to be more luxorious (seats reclined,smoother ride,over-head reading lights) than the typical RTD buses.

Any-hoot we would get off on Spring and 7th. Get some breakfast in a nearby cafe then shop on Broadway and head to The Million Dollar Theatre and catch a Spanish Movie followed by a Mexican Variety Show after the movie. It was such an awesome experience as a kid to be exposed to such a different world in downtown compared to sleepy suburbia El Monte. Ever since then, I've been a believer in downtown. I seen it's dark uglynness in the late 80's and 90's and now enjoy it's tranformation.

The last time I went to L.A. Live was when that awful Xmas tree was lit like 2 weeks ago. And yea, it was only $5 for parking. Try the lots east of Flower near Olympic and 8th. The walk is fun.

I also lived briefly in downtwon from 99-2001 at The Yorkshire Apts on Broadway and 7th. It was'nt until a friend of mine bought a house in Monterey Park in 2001 that I moved out or else I would live in downtown. I really miss it.

[Martinx07]

Anyone have any recent pics of Concerto? Or at least the Ritz? Thanks!

[Martinx07]

Grand Avenue Project Passes Milestone, Still No Loan

News Brief

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - The developer of the $3 billion Grand Avenue project has met a key Dec. 15 deadline and has completed and submitted 80% of the project's construction documents to the city-county agency overseeing the development. The Grand Avenue Authority voted this summer to grant developer the Related Cos. a six-month groundbreaking extension for the multi-phase, mixed-use project, moving the official construction start date from June 13 to Feb. 15, 2009. As part of the deal, Related agreed to meet certain deadlines along the way, including finishing 80% of its construction documents (which include detailed design guidelines) by last Monday. Related of California President Bill Witte said last week that the developer has already handed the documents over to the Grand Avenue Authority. The documents, which help determine building costs, are a key step in obtaining the estimated $700 million construction loan needed to get the project off the ground. So far the developer has not been able to secure a loan, and Witte said Related will likely have to delay groundbreaking beyond Feb. 15 while the company continues to search for financing. The developer's agreement with the Grand Avenue Authority specifies that Related will pay a $250,000 penalty every month after February that the project does not break ground, for up to two years. The project, titled The Grand, was originally slated to begin construction in October 2007 but has been delayed several times.

http://downtownnews.com/articles/2008/12/22/news/news_briefs/12-22-08-at01.txt

[JDRCRASH]

^ You beat me to it. But it doesn't mean anything until it obtains the loan, and that WILL not happen. It just won't.

[JDRCRASH]

L.A. Live Developer Plans Second Hotel (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2008/12/22/news/12-22-08-news03.txt)

Experts Say Financing Is Big Issue for Complement to 54-Story Tower

(here's your Ritz photo, Martin:))

http://images.townnews.com/ladowntownnews.com/content/articles/2008/12/22/news/12-22-08-news03.jpg
From Downtown News, by Gary Leonard
A current L.A. Live parking lot is slated to hold a second Convention Center hotel. Photo by Gary Leonard.

By Anna Scott

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - The developer of the $2.5 billion L.A. Live project plans to build a second Convention Center hotel in South Park. An official with Anschutz Entertainment Group last week said the new building would complement AEG's under-construction, $900 million tower.

The new hotel would rise on a current L.A. Live parking lot at Olympic Boulevard and Francisco Street, north of the under-construction hotel, L.A. Live spokesman Michael Roth said. The land is already fully entitled for a hotel, said Roth, and AEG is negotiating with several potential partners. Roth would not reveal any other details about the proposed project, including its size, budget or what hotel brands AEG is considering.

In June 2007 AEG broke ground on the Convention Center hotel, long considered the linchpin of L.A. Live. The 54-story building will include 878 JW Marriott hotel rooms, 123 Ritz-Carlton hotel rooms and 224 condominiums dubbed the Ritz-Carlton Residences.

The new project's timeline will likely be determined by AEG's ability to secure a loan, an uncertainty in the current economy.

"The key is financing; can they find the money?" asked Jack Kyser, senior vice president and chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. With the momentum of L.A. Live, AEG could fare better than most, he said.

"They have a track record. It's not like it's a brand new project and nothing else is going on," said Kyser. He added, "Now is a good time to start building, because a lot of construction materials are cheaper right now and, when you open your doors, the economy will be recovered again."

AEG President and CEO Tim Leiweke mentioned the possibility of a second hotel during a Dec. 9 event celebrating the end of vertical construction on the Convention Center hotel, though he did not refer to specific plans. "This district needs a second hotel... we need more rooms down here," he said.

Industry observers agree.

"It's a perfect place to have additional lodging demands," said Jeff Lugosi, senior vice president of PKF Consulting, which tracks the hotel industry. PKF acted as a consultant on the Convention Center hotel, but is not involved in the proposed new one.

"There's a demand for a variety of types of hotels," Lugosi said. "The question is going to be, what's financially feasible?"


The More the Merrier?

The Convention Center headquarters hotel will cap off the $2.5 billion, 27-acre L.A. Live entertainment district.

Yet long before it opens, it is already having an impact. Since the structure broke ground, tourism officials have booked 53 conventions and seen an 800% increase in room nights over 2005, an official at L.A. Inc., the city's convention and tourism bureau, told Los Angeles Downtown News earlier this month.

Lugosi predicts those numbers would continue to grow with the addition of a second hotel. "If you look at analogous markets that the L.A. Convention Center competes with, Anaheim and San Diego and San Francisco, the number of rooms that are within the convention center or downtown market are significantly greater," he said. "Certainly, the market is going to need to absorb the Ritz and the Marriott. But after that there's capacity for hotel expansion."

Lugosi said either a chain or independent brand could succeed, so long as it offers full-service amenities.

Kyser also said the possibilities are numerous, noting that the coming JW Marriott is a four-star hotel and the Ritz will be a five-star establishment. "You could go to another type of four-star hotel," said Kyser. "I've heard the W mentioned. You also don't have a Hyatt Downtown, which is very interesting."

Regardless of the operator, Lugosi has a positive forecast for Downtown's hotel market in the coming years, despite a slight dip in occupancy citywide during the past year.

"There are not a lot of hotel rooms planned for the Downtown market and with the recovery, starting maybe in late 2009 or early 2010... I think that there is room for other lodging properties," he said. "I think there is the ability to over-build if you build too much in a market where demand is not growing. However, I don't think that is the case Downtown."

Contact Anna Scott at anna@downtownnews.com.


Source: http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2008/12/22/news/12-22-08-news03.txt

[RuFFy]

So like, since I can't see the tree in person (in bfe) I went on YouTube to see the show. It appears different pov's alter the overall experience (I saw a few vidz and thought the show sucked). Then I saw this one that appears to be taken from the Chick Hearn Ct. side of the Plaza. I didn't think it was so bad anymore on this video so I thought maybe someone here would like to see it. Anyhow, here it is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTr4pLyEFmI

[edkao]

Hi,

So, how does one petition the city to change Figueroa and 11st/Chick Hearns intersection to diagonal crossing? Where do you start? Who to talk to?

I feel that intersection will benefit from the change to diagonal crossing. Right now with the increase in pedestrians, cars could not turn right on a green light.

And since they installed the new light signals on 11st, for when they shut down Chick Hearns Ct. They are probably going to reprogram the signals at the intersection anyways. Might as do it all in one shot.

Happy holidays.

Ed

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Contact Jan Perry for starters...

[petescafe]

Happy Holidays everyone.

Posting a few pics of the construction at 4th and Main.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0005.jpg


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0009_1.jpg


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0001_2-1.jpg


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0003_2.jpg


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0001_3.jpg

[JDRCRASH]

^ Finally, at least some of it is above ground. Good pictures, Pete!

[Martinx07]

The site looks great in the dark.

Thanks for the photos.

[JDRCRASH]

In the House in '08 (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2008/12/29/news/12-29-08-news02.txt)

Downtown Saw Nearly 20 New Residential Projects This Year

http://images.townnews.com/ladowntownnews.com/content/articles/2008/12/29/news/12-29-08-news02.jpg
Photo by Gary Leonard
The Hanover Company's 717 Olympic project brought 151 high-end apartments to South Park. The 26-story tower opened in June.

by Ryan Vaillancourt

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - Despite the tough economy, 2008 was nevertheless another major year for Downtown residential expansion, as many projects planned before the financial crunch came online. With nearly 20 new housing complexes debuting this year, it may be the area's last extended expansion period for a while. Here, in alphabetical order, are some of the year's residential highlights.

717 Olympic: The eye-catching, 26-story tower at Olympic Boulevard and Figueroa Street opened in June, adding 151 luxury units to South Park. Developed by Texas-based Hanover Company and designed by architecture firm RTKL, the building boasts some of the best views of any Downtown Los Angeles structure. But residents sure have to pay to stay: Rents range from $2,499 to nearly $20,000 for the largest penthouses.

Belmont Station Apartments: In August, Essex Property Trust completed the $77.7 million rental project at 1304 W. Second St. in City West on the former site of a Pacific Electric train yard and subway station. The 275-unit complex pays respect to the train-oriented history with murals, photo displays and the building name. Designed by Culver City-based John Cotton Architects, the six-story project includes 55 affordable units, an 8,200-square foot dog park and a small pool.

Brockman Building: The 12-story, $35 million Brockman building, which had been repeatedly delayed, was highly anticipated when it entered the residential scene as condominiums in September. So the news hit like a rock when developer West Millennium Group announced in December that, like many of its condo predecessors in 2008, it was switching to rentals. The restored, 1921 Beaux Arts edifice has 80 units from 850-2,280 square feet. Rents are approximately $2.25 per square foot.

Canvas L.A.: The 204-unit Canvas L.A. apartment complex, at First Street and Beaudry Avenue in City West, opened in April. The project quickly acquired notoriety for a marketing promotion in which the eight-foot-tall silhouette of a young woman danced in front of a window on an upper floor. Developed by Arizona-based Alliance Residential, the units range from 557-1,956 square feet and rents are $1,800-$5,500.

Chapman Flats: All Pacific Financial's $30 million housing complex, originally planned as condos, opened to renters in June. The 13-story Jewelry District tower at Broadway and Eighth Street includes 168 units, which at an average size of 750 square feet were designed to be on the small side. Rents are $1,500-$2,200. The apartments are outfitted with high-end appliances and finishes.

Lyndon Apartments: After $7 million worth of renovations, the formerly dilapidated Lyndon Hotel reopened in June with 53 housing units for low-income tenants. Developer SRO Housing Corp. spent two years upgrading the 15,000-square-foot, 1912 Beaux Arts Classical Revival structure at 413 E. Seventh St. in Skid Row. The 200-square-foot units house formerly homeless individuals.

National City Tower: The 150,000-square-foot, 12-story National City Tower opened in November, adding 93 high-end apartments to the Historic Core. Brothers Shariar and Shahram Afshani bought the dilapidated former bank headquarters at Eighth and Spring streets for $6.5 million in 2003, then spent $16 million converting it. The building contains 7,000 square feet of ground-floor commercial space.

Roosevelt Lofts: This 12-story condominium project on Seventh Street opened in November after more than a year of delays. Developer Milbank Real Estate's $150 million project is considered one of the most important pieces of revitalization on the Seventh Street corridor. The 222 condominiums range from 750-2,800 square feet and cost $495,000-$2.5 million. There are 16 penthouses, available in two, three or four levels.

TenTen Wilshire: The 16-story City West project opened in June at Wilshire Boulevard and Beaudry Avenue. Originally planned as a condominium project, developer the Amidi Group turned the 227 units into corporate housing. The apartments are furnished and are geared toward professionals in town for extended stays. The Amidi Group said in June that it does not intend to go back to condos once the market recovers.

Union Lofts: The 12-story Union Lofts opened at Eighth and Hill streets in February, 86 years after the building debuted as the headquarters of Union Bank. Meruelo Maddux Properties spent $40 million restoring the former office tower, creating 92 high-end apartments. The company ultimately plans to turn the apartments into condominiums. Meruelo Maddux also remains in negotiations to bring a restaurant to the building.

Also new in 2008: Evo, Artisan on Second, the Mandel Lofts, SB Manhattan, Bixel at Fifth, the JW Apartments, the Judson, the Great Republic Lofts and Yale Terrace.

Contact Ryan Vaillancourt at ryan@downtownnews.com.

[Martinx07]

^ Not bad! I wish LA would expand in the coming years, but it's gonna be in a stand still situation.

Thanks, JDR!

Happy New Years, everyone!!!

[colemonkee]

Happy New Year to all our SSP forumers! More pictures to come in the New Year!

[ladowntowner]

:cheers:
Happy New Year to all!!!

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Yea, happy new year to everyone! heres to an even better 2009 for LA!

[petescafe]

Greetings and a Happy New Year to all out in SkyscraperPageland!

One last round of photos for you in the final hours of 2008.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0036_1.jpg

The parking garage is starting to take shape.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0028_2.jpg


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0032_2.jpg

You can see the floor plan of the units outlined by the wood in this shot.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0030_2.jpg

Have a safe and prosperous New Year from all of us in the Historic Core.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0034_2.jpg

[JDRCRASH]

:banana: :leek: :pepper: :tomato: :cucumber: :apple: :cheers: :notacrook: :banger: :drunk: :bowtie: :righton: :thrasher: :upload_71700: :hyper: :banaride: :boogy: :drummer: :rock:



.......Sorry with the smilie overkill, but with a new year approaching, I just had to do that!:D

[DowntownCharlieBrown]

Happy New Year!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3155673188_59816588c5_o.jpg
flickr user: allanbarnes

[Westsidelife]

Happy New Year! We're already off to a great start with an Echo Park-free forum. :cheers:

[Kingofthehill]

Happy New Years!

Any predictions/forecasts for DTLA, or LA as a whole?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Happy New Year! We're already off to a great start with an Echo Park-free forum. :cheers:


:cheers:

[JDRCRASH]

Happy New Year! We're already off to a great start with an Echo Park-free forum. :cheers:

:banana:

But don't count your chickies before they hatch.

[WonderlandPark]

What did I miss? Did Echo Park get banned or something?

[Westsidelife]

:banana:

But don't count your chickies before they hatch.

Errr... he's been BANNED.

Happy New Years!

Any predictions/forecasts for DTLA, or LA as a whole?


It'll be a quiet year for DTLA. There won't be any new major construction; what we'll see instead is work on 717 Ninth and Concerto (and maybe even the Ritz) be completed and a glut of new retail trying their luck in the DTLA market.

There are several things to look forward to in 2009...


Measure R goes into effect on July 1st (exactly 6 months from today).
Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension opens in July.
1600 North Vine (Hollywood/Vine project) opens in November.
Madame Tussauds Hollywood opens in the summer.
Obama is inaugurated as president (would love for a wax figure of Obama at MTH (:))). Hopefully, LA will be on the receiving end of lots of transit funding. :fingerscrossed:
Lakers 2009 Championship (hopefully)! :banana:

[WonderlandPark]

Lakers 2009 Championship (hopefully)! :banana:[/LIST]

Yeah, I would LOVE to see a Lakers-Celtics final this summer.

[edluva]

Happy New Years!

Any predictions/forecasts for DTLA, or LA as a whole?


real estate devalues to 1999 levels. nothing revolutionary to forecast though. not with the economy the way it'll be for the next few years.

[Just-In-Cali]

Greatest NEW YEARS DAY for me ever! My New Years Eve sucked jingle balls, but made up for it with a day out. Visited LACMA, GREAT exibits, loved the Vanity Fair area. Also Finally got down to Nokia Plaza and Pershing Square to see the ice rink before it reverts back to a sub-developed concrete slab in the middle of the city. And PS, Echo was banned? May I ask why? Not that I'm complaining...
The Ritz/Marriott looks like its getting the consumate helipad on the roof.

[photolitherland]

Happy New Year!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3155673188_59816588c5_o.jpg
flickr user: allanbarnes

LA looks pretty sexy in this picture. It almost makes me like the city. Do those mountains usually have snow on the tops of them this time of year or is that a rare occurrence?

[djerniepearl]

Usually once or twice in the Winter months, those mountains(San Gabriel's) and Mount Baldy(Mt.San Antonio) get their tops dusted lke that.:tup:

[edluva]

i have a love/hate thing for skyline pics of LA. skylines don't represent LA by any truthful means. In fact, they represent the LA that isn't. the vain, pretentious, dishonest face that is often displayed to tourists and visitors, rather than the sprawling, crowded, and yes, substantive jungle that it truly is. LA is ugly, but it could be liked more if it allowed itself to be seen for what it truly is, warts and all. KOTH, and a few others are instrumental in showing an honest LA that helps us to understand it to depths which have allowed us to admire places like NY, Chicago, and others. Our goal shouldn't be to make more people like our city. That sort of pandering makes us even more despicable. Our goal should be to represent LA as it is, and let others decide. To ride with its faults as well as its strengths. It's hard to believe but I have a perverse pride in LA and I consider myself to be an asset to this city because I am all too rare. yeah...but LA isn't about skylines...

[ThreeHundred]

I had a dope New Years. Went to Phoenix, rode the new light rail, got drunk, and got a message from Echo Park. I can't remember giving him my phone number. But I digress.

Happy New Year.

[ThreeHundred]

I wish I was there.
EvkamkjQPhw

[dktshb]

Happy New Year! We're already off to a great start with an Echo Park-free forum. :cheers:

Really? I know he could be over the top but I actually enjoyed reading his posts although I haven't seen any lately.

[HX_Guy]

I had a dope New Years. Went to Phoenix, rode the new light rail, got drunk, and got a message from Echo Park. I can't remember giving him my phone number. But I digress.

Happy New Year.

Kick ass! How did you like Phx and the new light rail?

[ThreeHundred]

^ I liked it. It was packed (people were going to parties methinks) and it was pretty. Phoenix is still a weird city though.

I miss Los Angeles greatly however. =(

[Just-In-Cali]

It's hard to believe but I have a perverse pride in LA and I consider myself to be an asset to this city because I am all too rare. yeah...but LA isn't about skylines...

:runaway:

What to make of this comment...? It explains alot. LOL. Im at a loss. Any Ideas? :haha:

Thats cool ThreeHundred. My roomie and I are going to Phoenix soon...guess we're gonna see it for ourselves.

[JDRCRASH]

^ Edluva considers himself an "asset" and "valuable" for the city when it has a happy moment, only for him to come in as a party pooper by trying to compare LA to other cities and tries to unleash it's inner frustrations.:haha:

[JDRCRASH]

Errr... he's been BANNED.
:stunned:You serious? For what?

I'm guessing thats why he contacted Threehundred, to ask for his pity.:D



Measure R goes into effect on July 1st (exactly 6 months from today).
Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension opens in July.
1600 North Vine (Hollywood/Vine project) opens in November.
Madame Tussauds Hollywood opens in the summer.
Obama is inaugurated as president (would love for a wax figure of Obama at MTH (:))). Hopefully, LA will be on the receiving end of lots of transit funding. :fingerscrossed:
Lakers 2009 Championship (hopefully)! :banana:

All good ones!!

[LAMetroGuy]

i have a love/hate thing for skyline pics of LA. skylines don't represent LA by any truthful means. In fact, they represent the LA that isn't. the vain, pretentious, dishonest face that is often displayed to tourists and visitors, rather than the sprawling, crowded, and yes, substantive jungle that it truly is. LA is ugly, but it could be liked more if it allowed itself to be seen for what it truly is, warts and all. KOTH, and a few others are instrumental in showing an honest LA that helps us to understand it to depths which have allowed us to admire places like NY, Chicago, and others. Our goal shouldn't be to make more people like our city. That sort of pandering makes us even more despicable. Our goal should be to represent LA as it is, and let others decide. To ride with its faults as well as its strengths. It's hard to believe but I have a perverse pride in LA and I consider myself to be an asset to this city because I am all too rare. yeah...but LA isn't about skylines...

Honestly, I never thought that "our" goal was to make more people like our city. In fact, I've always seen LA as a city who really don't care about other's opinions. And to your point about skylines, yeah LA isn't about skylines...but it has them so they are photographed and discussed. :cool:

[LosAngelesBeauty]

lol edluva? An asset to this city? What has he done OUTSIDE this virtual forum that has contributed to this city in a positive way besides driving a hybrid car? "All too rare!" I'd really like to know!

[Westsidelife]

A New Year's gathering at LA Live with quite a substantial crowd. Thanks for recording, LAB.

vimlAF5hro0

[Westsidelife]

It's amazing how edluva turned a simple comment into another one of his over-the-top, self-indulged, non sequitur analyses. There is nothing intellectual or "savior-like" about it. It's just a convenient excuse for him to rant and toot his own horn. Real intellectuals are more grounded and neutral (how ironic!).

And whoever said LA was about skylines (another one of his preoccupied assumptions)? The notion of our skyline ultimately representing fiction is quite comical because, well, LA doesn't market its skyline to the rest of the world in the first place... at least 99.99% of the time it doesn't.


Colemonkee, can we just ban edluva and make that all of our New Year's resolutions?

[Westsidelife]

Another skyline shot for edluva. :hug:

The Ritz anchoring the skyline from the south...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/241/3160345519_3d2c0a18c7_b.jpg
From Flickr, by BILLBINNS

[JDRCRASH]

God thats beautiful; but it just shows how much Suburban Sprawl has choked our attempts to densify LA.

[Westsidelife]

^ That's not suburban sprawl.

[JDRCRASH]

Off in the distance towards Altadena? Yes, i'm pretty sure thats suburban sprawl.

Anyway, I think looking at the residential communities and the small business corridors on the bottom of that photo makes me hope for a couple of subway lines on Central, San Pedro, Avalon, and Main to encourage more taller buildings(under 40 stories.)

[WonderlandPark]

No, Altadena and Pasadena (and Glendale in that pic) started as streetcar suburbs. Suburbs, in particular old ones, are not sprawl. I wouldn't even consider even La Canada (far end of that pic) to be sprawl, it was also served by the Red Car system.





BTW If you are an Aspie, why do you believe in that Revelations junk? It ain't rational. And victim? umm, well, whatever.

[JDRCRASH]

^ That comment was very saddening to hear, especially the "victim" and Revelations parts. I speak not only for myself, but the thousands across the country that suffer from such a disorder, when I say: "Screw You." I put it there to show people that I have problems, and that some of it explains certain comments of mine. And I believe in Rev 21:4 because it brings hope to people like, and far worse off than me. Please, don't say something so inane and heartless again.....

[WonderlandPark]

Well, that is the Aspie in me talking, so it can sound heartless. Bible stuff really gets under my skin. Sorry about that. I was diagnosed about a decade ago myself. As I like to say about Asperger's "it is what it is." I just reserve the word "victim" for people who get shot or in a car wreck or something. YMMV. But I don't want to hijack the forum with this stuff, so how about some pics for the new year:

http://www.pixelmap.com/images/Scenic/LA/dntn_la_06.jpg


http://www.pixelmap.com/images/Scenic/LA/dntn_la_00.jpg

http://www.pixelmap.com/images/Scenic/LA/dntn_la_56.jpg
(my shots)

[Easy]

nm

[JDRCRASH]

The last one looks good, Wonderlandpark; I can't wait to see pics like that with the Ritz in view, especially when it's finished.

[colemonkee]

westside, I'm not going to ban edluva for stating his opinion, even if I disagree with it. He's not breaking any rules. But some of you are getting dangerously close. Can you all make a New Year's resolution to cut it out with the personal attacks?

[edluva]

And whoever said LA was about skylines (another one of his preoccupied assumptions)? The notion of our skyline ultimately representing fiction is quite comical because, well, LA doesn't market its skyline to the rest of the world in the first place... at least 99.99% of the time it doesn't.

well, it's funny you should ask that because it's people who want to deny that places like koreatown are a major part of this city's landscape (;)), who end up promoting postcard views of h+h, the skyline, or other shallow images in their place.

then LAB goes around, on the other hand, suggesting that visitors misunderstand LA (an assertion i actually agree with, ironically) for the reason that they apply a superficial standard from their own city (eg skylines). LAB, my contribution to LA is actually in my understanding it at a far deeper level than most angelenos themselves do...and then choosing to stay and call myself angeleno despite it all. i feel that i actually garner respect for being an angeleno who can admit to my city's many many failures, and still have a soft spot for it. and for resisting the temptation of becoming a vacuous hollywood douchebag, and by forestalling LA's brain-drain if only by staying here to work. on a sidenote, i'm interning in a new building off CHLA. it's quite nice, ever heard of Saban Research Institute? I also take the subway. Where in LA do you work?

well, anyways, the irony is that you both attack me for trashing LA, but you actually contradict each other on your most fundamental bases. That's just funny. Do you personally attack me because i think some of your opinions are blatantly illogical, or do you just hate me for trashing a city you favor?

colemonkee - you're pretty good about this but i'll just reemphasize, i've only attacked their opinions on the forum. unlike others here, i haven't relied on a single ad-hominem yet. I'm proud of that fact too.

LAMG - i disagree with your statement that LA "doesn't care" as a city. It goes without saying LA is obsessed with NY, for instance, to the point of being it's cultural lapdog. how often must our politicians, developers, and arts patrons cite our NY or Parisian aspirations before you're convinced of this? I'm not criticizing pics of our skyline perse, those are great an all. i'm criticizing our obsession with using downtown as a surrogate of urban progress - our champs, our times square, our "there". it's all very tiresome. but really in the end, that's noone's fault because in the end we lack fixed transit. to me, DTLA is our canary wharf. but there goes another analogy to help angelenos understand themselves. oh boy.

[StatenIslander237]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/241/3160345519_3d2c0a18c7_b.jpg
From Flickr, by BILLBINNS

While I don't normally comment on this thread, and being an outsider who has never been to L.A., I wanted to comment on the discussion at hand. L.A. being the only of the big three (NY, LA, Chicago) that I haven't been to, it fascinates me. -kind of like the free-wheeling western cousin of a city, who decided to grow completely by its own accord, and not follow the tradition of East Coast or European cities.

From analyzing it in my own way, I find that this :previous: is what L.A. is about. Not necessarily about skylines, nor sprawl. Instead, I'd say it's about abbreviated skylines which are nearly drowned by urban and suburban sprawl. Literally, the imperfect mixture of growing up and growing out. :rolleyes:

[delts145]

StatenIslander, you've picked an interesting shot to make your point. As is usually the case with those who have actually never been to L.A., or have only visited as a tourist hitting the usual tourist traps, you have completely misunderstood this phenominal city. I totally understand this and am not in any way trying to be offensive or snide in my remarks. Here are just a couple of pointers.

First, all of you look at this particular pic again. Yes, you might think that a metro of over 17 million people should have a larger skyline. And yes, I would agree with you. However, Los Angeles has made huge inroads to building it's downtown over the past 10 to 15 years, and that should be encouraged and respected.

Let me tell you why this pic is so deceptive. First, as you look at the lower half of this photo you will see what appears to be just suburbs or housing, conveniently organized by the occasional commercial strip, running vertically up and down the pic. However, that housing is a treasure chest, brimming with historical masterpieces. Infact, that entire photo is filled with thousands of magnificant Craftsman, Colonial Spanish, Gothic Revival, Victorian, Normandy structures, etc.,etc. Should L.A. simply level them purely for the sake of building up? Already, during the all too often disgusting and tacky architectural era of the 60's and 70's, too many of these masterpieces were lost to loathsome apartment complexes, with little to no design value.

Fortunately today, Angelino's are not as likely to tear down their historical masterpieces just for the sake of erecting a new office tower or apartment complex. Hey, I'm as skyscaper fanatical as any forumer on here. But, as I'm sure you now realize, we wouldn't want to tear down a beautiful old apartment building, an historic Craftsman manor, or even a charming bungalow for the sake of squeazing in more people. The urban nodes of L.A. must be organized and placed very carefully at this point in it's evolution, in order that it's remaining significant architecture does not fall victim to the wrecking ball any more than is absolutely necessary.

Also, most non-residents of L.A. who make only the occasional business or tourist stop-over are not aware of the dozens of charming and historic main streets that exist throughout this entire photo. Many of these historic cores have been lovingly restored only in the last decade or two.

While I await with anticipation and excitement for the continual buildup of the Los Angeles skyline, I would be rabid in my disaproval of replacing it's beautiful architectural jewels, even if for a gleaming tower.

What I really like, is when they level a grotesque mistake from the 60's (such as a strip mall) or construct creative and innovative mixed-use infill on the site of a parking lot.

Typical Los Angeles dwellings that still to this day number in the thousands, surrounding downtown and central Los Angeles.
http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/1859081655_f0d88d7cc1_b.jpg
The following pics if not otherwise designated are by Merrisw at flickr.

Many are decently maintained, as is this one pictured below. They await the loving and authentic restoration, which characterizes the pic immediately above
If you are a Six Feet Under Fan, you should recognize this house. My own former neigborhood of West Adams
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/34967280_1840e8fbca_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2386/1859908260_6a30048d3e_b.jpg
by Joey Harrison

More typical urban renewal streetscape of Central L.A.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/1859082857_d08413fa84_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2263/1859077513_30f9f05ad5_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2166/1859076599_777dd69807_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2021/1859078941_b41dd62660_b.jpg

Typical of houses in Downtown/Central L.A., awaiting restoration
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1011/800722790_951ea5ff99_b.jpg
by Googiesque

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/304529869_2910d23239_b.jpg
by hereinvanuys

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2117558484_e1a3aab352_o.jpg
by jamesandtim

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2171/2117558324_72b0d6c806_o.jpg
by jamesandtim

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2752147098_35eed8c2cb_b.jpg
by lgal3824

Anyway, the numbers, styles and variety of these houses,(also commercial and apartment buildings) are endless. Yes, they are not the most 'urban dense,' but I wouldn't trade them for anything. There are plenty of plots that could be developed wisely without involving their demolition. However, realize that some of those plots which are now available for development, are available as a result of the demolition of a visual and historic treasure.

.

[DaveofCali]

Honestly, I never thought that "our" goal was to make more people like our city. In fact, I've always seen LA as a city who really don't care about other's opinions. And to your point about skylines, yeah LA isn't about skylines...but it has them so they are photographed and discussed. :cool:

Well, even if L.A. doesn't care about other people's opinions, it is detrimental since people never get a sense of what L.A. is really about. They don't ever get a good idea, and because of that it leads to apathy (lack of civic pride) which thus leads to the city not improving as much which also leads to lower than ideal quality of living.

This last October I actually traveled across the country by car (I visited 18 cities, and I have the pictures to prove it) and I saw lots of well organized cities, with nice parks and interesting downtowns.

While I think that there are things that L.A. comes short in, like having beautiful urban parks, a comprehensive mass transit system, an active waterfront, large expansions of nice neighborhoods, or having a large area or downtown that feels like the center of the city (that feeling that can only come out of a critical mass of different types of buildings), measuring L.A. by this stick completely misses the point that L.A. is a totally different city in itself because it excels in other things, that depending on the person either still comes short against other cities or makes L.A. a much more unique city than any other city in America (and one of the most unique in the world.)

For one, I found that many cities in America are really predictable. You have a downtown beside a waterfront, with a very nice, major park in the downtown or near downtown (generally with some civic buildings around), tall office buildings, hotels, a convention center, a sports arena or stadium, several museums, one or a few nightlife districts, a shopping area, an active waterfront with paths for people exercising, nicely decorated streets, nice historic neighborhoods around downtown, and in the east coast, statues, fountains, and nicely designed traffic circles.

This is all great and IMO makes these cities nice to live in. However, if you are basing your judgement about L.A. compared to all these other cities, then you are missing what makes L.A. distinct.


To me, L.A. is not and has not been about being the model city or even anywhere close to it. L.A. is a lot of unique, different things that make L.A. L.A. To me, L.A. is about diversity, unpredictability, creativeness, style, color, visual design, street art, humor, wildness, idiosyncrasy, drama, rich & poor, advertising, a city full of different cultures and subcultures that coexist with each other (as well as make their own havens), organic city development, the predominantly mexican areas, street food, the commercial boulevard, palm trees, industrial areas, parking garages, the hiking park, the beautiful mountain ranges, scenic freeways, the beach, beach culture, the beach cities, the beautiful sunsets, mountainsides full of houses, decentralization, the entertainment industry, the southwest mediterranean look (incl. palm lined streets with mediterreanean and craftsman architecture), the gritty look, "coolness", the hot look, the nightlife, Pasadena, Beverly Hills, Hollywood, Wilshire blvd, all the current events that happen that get national attention (from academy awards to wildfires), etc...

These are things that go beyond the general way of judging cities. And thus it comes down to what one prefers, a city with all this but lacks the cohesiveness and pleasantness of an organized city or a nice, clean organized city with much of the typical features of a well designed city but lacks the level of distinctness that a city like L.A. has.

[colemonkee]

^ ^ very well put, delts. There is a treasure trove of beautiful homes in the periphery of downtown - especially in the West Adams district - that many people don't know even exist - especially people who live in LA.

to me, DTLA is our canary wharf. but there goes another analogy to help angelenos understand themselves. oh boy.

That's actually not a bad comparison. Though I always considered Canary Wharf London's Century City. If you look at it chronologically, anyway.

But in an effort to keep this thread on track, let's remember that this is the Downtown Project Rundown thread, not the Discussion of Urban/Suburban LA thread. Let's try to keep the discussion relevant to current or proposed construction projects to this thread, and the general LA discussions to the Los Angeles section of the California forum.

[Just-In-Cali]

edluva

LAB, my contribution to LA is actually in my understanding it at a far deeper level than most angelenos themselves do...and then choosing to stay and call myself angeleno despite it all. i feel that i actually garner respect for being an angeleno who can admit to my city's many many failures, and still have a soft spot for it. and for resisting the temptation of becoming a vacuous hollywood douchebag, and by forestalling LA's brain-drain if only by staying here to work.




WOW...I couldnt make this statement up! Well, we should throw a parade for your sacrifice and depth of thought...my goodness.:koko:
As for you JD...I usually try to go easy, but your "choked by suburban" comment is soooo far off, I cant let it slide. I guess Boston and Chicago ALSO have been choked by suburban sprawl and arent letting their "true" selves shine? Philadelphia too for that matter. :sly:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2188/1702832133_74d54b3ad7_o.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Chicago_Downtown_Aerial_View.jpg
http://www.hoteles-en-boston.com/boston_pictures/boston_aerial_photo.jpg

Funny how SIMILER they all look in perspective, isnt it?

[Kingofthehill]

^ ^ very well put, delts. There is a treasure trove of beautiful homes in the periphery of downtown - especially in the West Adams district - that many people don't know even exist - especially people who live in LA.
I've done my fair share of photography in those neighborhoods:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/3136576092_e94d0ba3f8_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/3097370276_d9fc5f36b3_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3096529369_f9f929bf85_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/3097342106_99974e7a71_b.jpg

More in this thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=162832)

Also check out my end of the year thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163096).

[colemonkee]

Nice photos, kingofthehill. JustinCali, edluva, JDR, and the rest of the gang. The next person to post a city vs. city or "suburban sprawl" comment in this thread will be suspended immediately. You've been warned, and I'm tired of pussy-footing around with you guys. STOP.

[citywatch]

One last round of photos for you in the final hours of 2008.
The parking garage is starting to take shape.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0028_2.jpg
Sure is a relief that the former big parking lot north of 4th, east of Main St, no longer is one of the spots described in the following story.

I was hoping I'd be able to say the same thing right around now about the large gap north of the ice skating rink shown in the pic below. But so far, the park fifth tower remains a wish in some devlpr's eyes.

That means the main things to watch for in 2009 will be the completion of work on all the new restaurants in LA live, the apt bldg on San Pedro St in Little tokyo, & the continuing work on the Marriott/Ritz hotel tower, the Concerto & 717 towers, &, of course, the medallion proj in the OBD.

A lack of new devlpt over the next 12 months won't be as much a downer if the completion of new projs this yr, inc apts, condos, restaurants & stores, is met with good support from renters, buyers & shoppers.


In Los Angeles, downtown is on an upswing

http://i.usatoday.net/travel/_photos/2008/12/26/la-topper.jpg
Pioneering spirit: Stella Dottir, an Icelandic designer, opened her gallery of custom-
made clothing in a downtown area known as Skid Row three years ago.
Robert Hanashiro, USA TODAY

By Jayne Clark, USA TODAY
December 25, 2008

LOS ANGELES — Dress designer Stella Dottir took a stroll around her downtown neighborhood the other day and marveled at the ordinary.
"There were flowers and people sitting in outside cafes. And it was clean," she says, shaking her head in wonder. "When I moved in, you could get crack, heroin, marijuana and pills. But definitely not milk. This was a supermarket in hell."

A change has blown through in the three years since Dottir opened her namesake shop, one of the first commercial (or legal, anyway) enterprises on this formerly bleak stretch of Skid Row. Next door is a cheerful-looking Vietnamese restaurant and a DVD rental store. And across the way, a yoga studio and a doggie day-care place.

"It's busy at night. There are restaurants, clubs, music," she says. "It's like a different city."

Indeed. Downtown Los Angeles was for decades abandoned at quitting time, when thousands of office workers hopped in their cars and headed home via a tangle of freeways. Few people visited; fewer lived here, unless you count a teeming homeless population. The streets were dark and dirty and dangerous.

Now, downtown L.A. is suddenly hot, thanks to a recent influx of residents, which, in turn, has spawned new shops, restaurants and nightspots and given visitors fresh reasons to venture here. Corralled by three freeways and the Los Angeles River to the east, L.A.'s civic center is really a patchwork of at least 15 distinct neighborhoods that occupy a relatively compact area, from the sleek office towers of the Financial District and over-the-top opulence of the Vaudeville-era theaters lining historic Broadway, to the low-slung buildings of Little Tokyo and crowded storefronts of the Fashion District.

But despite major attractions — the collection at the Museum of Contemporary Art, performances at the Music Center, the Mexican crafts stalls on historic Olvera Street, and, since 2003, the wondrous sight of the Frank Gehry-designed Walt Disney Concert Hall, which has its own guided tours — downtown was lacking the critical mass to be a serious tourist draw.

http://i.usatoday.net/travel/_photos/2008/12/26/la-disneyx-large.jpg
Culture magnet: The Frank Gehry-designed Walt Disney Music Hall is home to the Los
Angeles Philharmonic, Center Theatre Group, Los Angeles Opera and Los Angeles Mas-
ter Chorale. Robert Hanashiro, USA TODAY

The largest and latest development fueling the boom is L.A. Live, a $2.5 billion entertainment and sports extravaganza on the southern edge of downtown next to the decade-old Staples Center sports arena. It consists of the year-old 7,000-seat Nokia Theatre, the just-opened and exuberantly interactive Grammy Museum, the 2,300-seat Club Nokia, an ESPN Zone with broadcast facilities, a 1,000-person-capacity nightclub and lots of restaurants. In early 2010, a 54-story J.W. Marriott and Ritz-Carlton will open here. The added 1,000 guestrooms will perk up a sagging convention business, which previously has relied on annual events such as the auto show and a porn convention.

The development surrounds a 40,000-square-foot outdoor plaza that promoters are dubbing the Times Square of the West. It's eliciting raves from civic and business leaders who see it as the lure that will draw people who in the past may have considered making a date in downtown after dark akin to scheduling a mugging.

"A year ago there was almost nothing to do downtown at night," says Mark Liberman, president of LA Inc., the city's tourism promotion agency. "Now we're seeing lines" of people.

In the fledging Gallery Row area, east of L.A. Live, Thursday night art walks are attracting thousands to a once-desolate area. And a few pioneers, such as Gary Cypres, owner of the new Sports Museum of Los Angeles, are pushing the boundaries beyond downtown's borders, betting on spillover from other venues. His cavernous museum houses an eye-popping collection of 10,000-plus sports artifacts.

The Los Angeles Conservancy, which has long offered various downtown architectural walking tours, reports demand is up 30% over last year, thanks to positive buzz about the area.

http://images.usatoday.com/travel/_photos/2008/12/26/la-skatex-large.jpg
Chill out downtown: Pershing Square, an outdoor concert and event center, offers a
winter holiday ice rink through Jan. 19. Damian Dovarganes, AP

"We've gotten hundreds of calls from people saying, 'You've got theaters down there?' " says Conservancy spokeswoman Cindy Olnick. "They had no idea. And when you get them out of their cars, they see these amazing buildings that couldn't be built anymore."

The current renaissance began in 1999 with new ordinances that encouraged converting long-empty office buildings into residential lofts. At present, an estimated 39,000 people have moved in.

"Converting old office buildings to housing is what really made the difference," says Carol Schatz, president of the Downtown Center Business Improvement District. "It poured life onto the streets. People demanded places to eat and places to shop. That's what created the boom in downtown."

The economic crisis hasn't spared this area, however. Loft conversions and new condos once intended for sale are for rent instead. Judging from the profusion of "For Lease" signs, there's plenty of availability. One ambitious venture, the Grand Avenue Project (touted as the Champs-Elysées of L.A.), which would have added a park, a luxury hotel, housing and retail, is on hold. The number of weedy, fenced-off parking lots indicates other plans are, too.

Nor has downtown lost its grittiness. A 2007 report estimated there were 5,000 homeless on Skid Row alone. A sign warning No Drugs No Dealers is plastered on a down-and-out residential hotel down the street from a pet boutique selling $300 dog carriers. A Pilates studio borders a swap meet hawking $5 shoes. A Latino botanica offering tongue reading for $20 is near a posh day spa offering $220 body polishing.

But that rich diversity is what many residents — and visitors — find so compelling.

Craig Martin, 47, who moved into a loft in the former gas company building eight months ago, says when he heard people were moving here, he wondered, "Where do they get food?" (An upscale Ralphs grocery opened in 2007.) Initially, the seafood importer merely wanted to live near his work to avoid L.A.'s legendary traffic snarls. Now, he wouldn't live elsewhere.

"Culturally, it's a great mix of people. You have old guys who've lived here since the '30s and students and young professionals and tons of dogs," he says. "And yes, there are dangerous areas. I don't know where they are — I just know when to turn around. But things are changing all the time. It just takes one decent store or one new thing to change everything."

[LosAngelesBeauty]

A New Year's gathering at LA Live with quite a substantial crowd. Thanks for recording, LAB.

vimlAF5hro0

Haha np Westsidelife. Looks like you got to my video before I even added a title!

[colemonkee]

^ citywatch, you forgot University Gateway in your list. Speaking of which...

University Gateway

From earlier today. With what looks like a big storm looming behind it. It's about halfway up now...

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5945/univgate200901031nb7.jpg

The Ritz way off in the distance.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5651/univgate200901032vo7.jpg

2025 Figueroa

They've been working on this conversion for a while now, and it appears to be almost done. I believe a Chrysler dealership was to go here, but with the current state of the auto industry, I'm not sure if that's still in the cards. Still, it'll be nice to see this lit up at night like the Audi dealership down the street.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8972/2025fig20090103qc6.jpg

[colemonkee]

I have suspended JDRCRASH for continuing the "suburban sprawl" discussion in this thread, as I specifically warned you all against doing yesterday. I also deleted his comments.

The next person to continue that conversation here will be suspended for a minimum of 7 days.

Please keep this thread on topic, about projects in and around downtown.

[Just-In-Cali]

Better knock it off JD...we HAVE been warned after all. In other RELEVENT news...this in DT news kinda crystalizes whats happening with our favorite phantom skyscraper...
Take the Fifth: One of Downtown's biggest dreams is the $1.3 billion Park Fifth project, slated for the block north of Pershing Square. But the most recent groundbreaking date of early 2009 is going the way of several past missed starts. Developer David Houk is currently seeking new investors to replace troubled partners Namco Capital Group and Africa Israel Investments. The project, if it ever gets going, would include a 76-story tower and a 44-story tower housing a hotel and condominiums, connected by a 15-story residential building, plus retail and restaurant space.

[Steve2726]

Happy new year all. Here is an aerial of 717 Ninth from the builders website-

www.kcswest.com

http://www.kcswest.com/images/projects/48/1.jpg

[JRinSoCal]

Nice aerial. I hope the parking structure is completely disguised.

[colemonkee]

^ That's the big mystery with this one. Different renderings show wildly different facade treatments for the garage, ranging from "acceptable" to "pretty bad" in my opinion.

[StatenIslander237]

^ That's the big mystery with this one. Different renderings show wildly different facade treatments for the garage, ranging from "acceptable" to "pretty bad" in my opinion.

No "good"? ;)

[citywatch]

^ citywatch, you forgot University Gateway in your list. Speaking of which...
I also forgot to mention the opening of the ESPN TV studios in LA live, which should bring some interesting new broadcast & PR possibilities to the hood.

As for the Uni Gateway proj, that really is unexpected since I've never seen so much concrete used before in the devlpt of a lowrise apt bldg. That type of material makes the Gateway devlpt seem more permanant & durable (& $$$).

And as is true of the medallion proj, it sure is nice to see a former deadzone converted into something more useful & worthwhile. Just too bad it couldn't have happened yrs ago, when the next door Shrine auditorium was hosting several major events attended by lots of VIPs.

Several yrs ago I recall an actress saying that on the way to the Shrine, cuz traffic was so heavy on Fig St, she had to get out of her car (or I guess it was a limo) & walk over to the bldg. I believe another celeb said cuz she was so hungry on the way to some awards show at the Shrine, she decided to stop by a fast food place near the auditorium.

In both cases, I thought, oh oh, those ppl were walking or driving by deadzones like where the Uni Gateway proj is now rising.

So it's a relief that one of the major corners at Fig & Jefferson finally is being fixed up.

[tujunga]

No, Altadena and Pasadena (and Glendale in that pic) started as streetcar suburbs. Suburbs, in particular old ones, are not sprawl. I wouldn't even consider even La Canada (far end of that pic) to be sprawl, it was also served by the Red Car system.





BTW If you are an Aspie, why do you believe in that Revelations junk? It ain't rational. And victim? umm, well, whatever.

No, La Crescenta, Glendale, and La Canada in that pic.

[tujunga]

well, it's funny you should ask that because it's people who want to deny that places like koreatown are a major part of this city's landscape (;)), who end up promoting postcard views of h+h, the skyline, or other shallow images in their place.

then LAB goes around, on the other hand, suggesting that visitors misunderstand LA (an assertion i actually agree with, ironically) for the reason that they apply a superficial standard from their own city (eg skylines). LAB, my contribution to LA is actually in my understanding it at a far deeper level than most angelenos themselves do...and then choosing to stay and call myself angeleno despite it all. i feel that i actually garner respect for being an angeleno who can admit to my city's many many failures, and still have a soft spot for it. and for resisting the temptation of becoming a vacuous hollywood douchebag, and by forestalling LA's brain-drain if only by staying here to work. on a sidenote, i'm interning in a new building off CHLA. it's quite nice, ever heard of Saban Research Institute? I also take the subway. Where in LA do you work?

well, anyways, the irony is that you both attack me for trashing LA, but you actually contradict each other on your most fundamental bases. That's just funny. Do you personally attack me because i think some of your opinions are blatantly illogical, or do you just hate me for trashing a city you favor?

colemonkee - you're pretty good about this but i'll just reemphasize, i've only attacked their opinions on the forum. unlike others here, i haven't relied on a single ad-hominem yet. I'm proud of that fact too.

LAMG - i disagree with your statement that LA "doesn't care" as a city. It goes without saying LA is obsessed with NY, for instance, to the point of being it's cultural lapdog. how often must our politicians, developers, and arts patrons cite our NY or Parisian aspirations before you're convinced of this? I'm not criticizing pics of our skyline perse, those are great an all. i'm criticizing our obsession with using downtown as a surrogate of urban progress - our champs, our times square, our "there". it's all very tiresome. but really in the end, that's noone's fault because in the end we lack fixed transit. to me, DTLA is our canary wharf. but there goes another analogy to help angelenos understand themselves. oh boy.

Man, you don't view LA from the mountain top, you're in the heart of LA.

Whether I agree with them or not I enjoy your comments and opinions.

Good come back too.

[Westsidelife]

Cole, just for clarification, I didn't launch any personal attacks against edluva. I never have. I never called him out for his lack of intellect (though it looks like it), but for his improper use of it. I find a lot of his rhetoric to be so embellished with strong vocabulary and whatnot that it quickly becomes convoluted to the point where it becomes non sequitur. I just think if edluva believes we're all so naive, then he should at least have the decency to 'simplify' his arguments for us. ;)

Well, on the contrary, edluva's made several ad hominem attacks against LAMG, LAB, and me. I'm shocked that he denies this. I can cite many, many examples (feel free to PM me if you're interested). Why haven't you done anything about it?

...

To edluva: Most of my posts are either copied and pasted articles/blog entries or photos taken from Flickr. Rarely do I offer up and opinion, but if you want to call them 'illogical', then fine by me.

...

EDIT: And I've said time and time again that I agree with most of edluva's logic -- that LA lacks a sense of place, that a coherent mass transit system could solve a lot of LA's problems, etc. -- I think we all do. These bitter exchanges are merely a manifestation of deep-seated hostility. The best I can do is put edluva on Ignore, which I already have.

[yeah215]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8972/2025fig20090103qc6.jpg

This is a great pic and wonderful example of how auto dealerships don't have to be such a drag. Imagine if suburban auto malls were replaced with dealerships that look like this. You potentially could vibrant auto district rather than a paved wasteland.

On a related point, this is also an example of how, with good design, suburban style amenities can be adapted for for urban design standards.

That isn't to say this design is perfect. I think it would have been nice to wrap the entire parking lot with retail and office uses. At the very minimum, the parking structure should have continued the brick facade where it faces the street (maybe even with some space for signage or display). But this is a long call from traditional auto dealerships and malls.

http://www.oregans.com/pictures/Image/Auto-Mall.jpg

[colemonkee]

yeah215, good observations, but retail wouldn't realistically wrap around the building on the left side. That block is a dead end (that street dead-ends at the 110 freeway, which is literally just out of frame), so it would be naive of a developer to think that retail would be a draw there. Besides, the building use just inside that wall will be auto storage (this was visible when they were constructing this and those walls weren't closed in yet). In my opinion, the only thing they could do to improve this design is continue the brick along the south face of the building, and possibly windows on the upper floors to showcase their auto inventory to motorists and pedestrians. Though there is a nice glass enclosure facing the freeway (not pictured) that will do just that.

citywatch, University Gateway is 8 stories, so it has to be all concrete (or all steel, if they went that route). Type III construction (wood frame above a concrete ground floor) is limited to six stories from engineering and code standards.

[Just-In-Cali]

Wonderland, Edluva never gets in real trouble...remember? He has insight and benefits the city too much to be sanctioned in ANY way...at least by this forum's standards. LOL Must be nice having friends that run the joint.
One thing I was wondering...had there been any newer renderings of the 717 parking structure? I know the earliest ones show a glass like curtain wrapping the structure, but there seems to be no indication that it is what is going up.

[Westsidelife]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/3173737666_7125035b10_b.jpg
From Flickr, by casual clicks

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3262/3173738224_ae03b96c51_b.jpg
From Flickr, by casual clicks

[edluva]

Man, you don't view LA from the mountain top, you're in the heart of LA

^i agree. you don't view london from the mountain top either but it does quite well solely by its reputation for "world-class" urbanism (substance). LA could avoid putting all its eggs in downtown development too instead of obsessing over its little cbd (image) and concentrating, instead, on everything between dt and the sea (substance). LA sucks right now for one fundamental reason. it needs an extensive, relevant subway system (substance) to connect to dtla. that's slowly coming, but for now, i'll call it as it is (substance)...which brings me to another point.....

westsidelife - i won't get drawn far into this again (you trying to get me banned?) but i will admit that i have personally attacked you and losangelesbeauty in the past (and i recant), but in general, they were not ad-hominem attacks because they merely served to color an argument that still stood on its merits...on the other hand, you and LAB did regularly resort to ad-hominems (attacking the person and not his argument) because there was no actual counter-argument offered and on an even lower level, resorted to simply ignoring the debates (how's that for logical?) when you ran out of ammo or got tired... you can pm me if you want to go over the details as i'm positive you're still reading me. i don't want to get banned so i'll end it there

colemonkee - for the record i did not post any explicit city vs city or sprawl comments. the closest i came to vs was through analogies centering on dtla, it's skyline, and it's functional relationship to LA. and i'm not the one to be faulted for dragging that into personal attacks here.

justincali - believe it or not, i'm quite careful and technical about avoiding trouble. no corrupt arrangements here (i despise that sort of thing anyways). if you look closely, i do color outside the lines occasionally, but i'm generally conscious of obeying the rules of the house.

tying my main point back to the thread topic...so every major city has a "downtown" in the sense of being the functional center of commerce and culture. i see downtown LA (cbd) as only part of the broader "downtown" mentioned above, and that the projects planned for our cbd area... metropolis, grand, lalive, etc....serve to enliven a mere neighborhood (cbd) of this broader region. for this reason, i might actually be against turning pershing into another union square, because we already have that sort of retail elsewhere. downtown (our cbd) should not aim to be all things to all people. to me, it's just another shinjuku - a massing of civic, county, and commercial buildings around a major transit node. losangelesbeauty, and i'm sure others here, are conscious of this. i just wish our political leaders could stop pandering to pie-in-sky expectations for developers of dtla because they're actually hurting it's potential along the way.

[ladowntowner]

We've been seeing some nice aerial shots lately.

2009 is looking great for the forum already, if not for new downtown groundbreakings. Here's to colemonkee for doing a fine job as moderator.
:cheers:

[JDRCRASH]

Medallion

January 5, 2009

http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3107/3171368177_feddc767e8_o.jpg
From Curbed LA, by Neal Broverman



http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/1089/3171367491_9402f555c6_o.jpg
From Curbed LA, by Neal Broverman



http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/1061/3171367137_bf0a2e480a_o.jpg
From Curbed LA, by Neal Broverman



http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/1143/3171367803_994813fdae_o.jpg
From Curbed LA, by Neal Broverman



http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/1062/3172196842_0e8702bf34_o.jpg
From Curbed LA, by Neal Broverman

[LosAngelesBeauty]

losangelesbeauty, and i'm sure others here, are conscious of this.

West Central anyone? :) hehe

[bobcat]

According to this article (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/macys-to-close-11-underperforming-stores/298173), Macy's at Ernst and Young Plaza is closing. Wonder what might eventually take its place.

[petescafe]

The pre-fab parking structure is going up pretty fast.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0018_3.jpg


as an added bonus, heres a pic of the fog a couple of nights ago.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/TheGhostlyGreatDunn/DSC_0002_4.jpg

[dktshb]

According to this article (http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/macys-to-close-11-underperforming-stores/298173), Macy's at Ernst and Young Plaza is closing. Wonder what might eventually take its place.

Well it makes sense since another Macys is right around the corner from it already. I doubt anything will take its place for quite some time given the current situation with retail in general and the fact that Downtown probably hasn't proven itself yet as a healthy retail market.

[Just-In-Cali]

Well it makes sense since another Macys is right around the corner from it already. I doubt anything will take its place for quite some time given the current situation with retail in general and the fact that Downtown probably hasn't proven itself yet as a healthy retail market.

Id have to agree...even the stores in the outlying suburban malls are starting to fail one after the other. I doubt there will be much in the way of new retail in the area for a year or more. It would be nice to see another grocer move into the area though. Getting food is still essential, even in a stumbling economy. Im sure even the biggest "ass-et" to LA can agree on that.
LOL :P

[colemonkee]

^ Downtown will be getting another grocer in the form of Bottega Louie in the Brockman Building. They started hiring on Monday. It's a gourmet market and restaurant.

However, downtown could support a Trader Joe's in addition to the Ralph's on 9th, which does very well being one of the top sales performers in the chain. But Trader Joe's has come out publicly that downtown is not in their current expansion plans.

[Just-In-Cali]

Thanks for the update would they be able to lure some mid priced grocers to the area as well...like an Albertsons or even Stater Bros? Or do they have some already that I have missed? It would bring jobs and lower prices to an area with a large working class.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Well it makes sense since another Macys is right around the corner from it already. I doubt anything will take its place for quite some time given the current situation with retail in general and the fact that Downtown probably hasn't proven itself yet as a healthy retail market.

Well, according to Blogdowntown, the owners are in serious negotiations with interested parties. so who knows? its seems as though everyone wants a target, but i would rather have a bookstore there myself. However, with 200,000 square feet, its probably a target. An ideal location for a bookstore would obviously be 7th and hope, but unfortunately we have a walgreens going in there.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

^ A Target would be perfect. Also, if they would provide a rear entrance and some windows along 8th Street, that would be great too.

[JDRCRASH]

I'm not too concerned if there's another Macy's nearby.

[Just-In-Cali]

Just felt the earthquake a few minutes ago. Nice ride!

[edluva]

West Central anyone? :) hehe

a name will come once transit makes this region tangible to common-folk. that is the natural course of place-making. it's a bottom-up phenomenon rather than top-down. same goes for downtown and its relationship to individual developments such as la live. the subway over a decade earlier made such developments justifiable.

in many ways that is why LA is still in its infancy. it has yet to collectively recognize a city center, one which already lies right below its proverbial nose. and it's not happening in our productive lifetimes. if you can read and follow what i'm saying, you're already too old to witness the manifestation of a centralized, urban LA.

[JDRCRASH]

:uhh: Did anybody else feel that?