[LACienega]

After traveling to many cities around the world, I always seem to be more content with Los Angeles. I love my world class city.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ We have expectations that we are used to getting here (and take for granted) in LA that may not be present in other great cities. We expect good weather, good/cheap food, a variety of neighborhoods, racial/ethnic/etc. diversity, etc. If those qualities are very important to you, you start to figure out that LA really is unique in that regard. My friend, who "hated" LA, moved away to China and lived in Shanghai and Beijing for 3 years now. She flies back to LA frequently (like every 3-4 months) and now her "disdain" for LA is completely gone! She now says she LIKES LA (OMG!!! Likes from Hated?) and is considering moving back to LA when she gets married in June 2009.

This story is not unique. I have several other friends I know that have moved away from LA, only to return. One moved back from Atlanta after spending 2 years there. He also HATED LA (actually he lived in Long Beach), and is now glad to be back in SoCal.

[edluva]

this self masturbatory thread is so encouraging!!! LA is so great that we need to hear ourselves reaffirm it to ourselves, in order to stave off the naysayers and doubters. but that's the norm for any great city and it's an indicator of exactly how great our LA is!!!! OMG!!!

we're WAY better than atlanta and beijing. HELL YES!!! CAPS LOCKED!!!

[Just-In-Cali]

I think we all agree that this :previous: kind of blather should be ignored from here on out. So much anger at other's happiness...is disturbing.

[towersla]

Walking over to the Disney Hall in a few moments to watch Esa-Pekka conduct. Then onto philharmonic's party at the Edison. Ever since moving downtown 9 years ago, I can honestly report that living here just gets better and better.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I'm glad to hear that towersla. I remember bumping into you at those Grand Ave. Project meetings and even though that hasn't even broken ground yet, it's good to see that many other developments have taken place to give you, a downtown resident, a better life. I am eager to see enough retail/shops open in Downtown LA to give it a more normal feel. It really just lacks SHOPPING options for me at least. Well, and parks. Oh, and can we get rid of Macy's Plaza???

[ocman]

Walking over to the Disney Hall in a few moments to watch Esa-Pekka conduct. Then onto philharmonic's party at the Edison. Ever since moving downtown 9 years ago, I can honestly report that living here just gets better and better.

I envy you. I'm not going see one of his last concerts with LAP (though it probably won't really be his last). Even with Dudamel taking his place, it's going to be a huge loss to Los Angeles classical music. Be prepared to see the audience crying their eyes out.

[dktshb]

this self masturbatory thread is so encouraging!!! LA is so great that we need to hear ourselves reaffirm it to ourselves, in order to stave off the naysayers and doubters. but that's the norm for any great city and it's an indicator of exactly how great our LA is!!!! OMG!!!

we're WAY better than atlanta and beijing. HELL YES!!! CAPS LOCKED!!!

:haha: LOL, For some reason when I read your posts I think of that character Ellen Page played in that movie Juno. Hypothetically, I think I would miss LA if I ever left it, but I would miss it a whole lot more if it was developed like San Francisco.

[ChrisLA]

I envy you. I'm not going see one of his last concerts with LAP (though it probably won't really be his last). Even with Dudamel taking his place, it's going to be a huge loss to Los Angeles classical music. Be prepared to see the audience crying their eyes out.


Yes it looks like I won't make it to any of Esa Pekka last performance as the conductor of the LAP as I was hoping too. At this rate it doesn't look like I'll get to any this season. Anyway I had a friend who used to lived at the Promenade. I too would enjoy the walk across the street to the Disney Hall, oh how I missed her living in that building.

[citywatch]

Yes, I love Pasadena and am very happy living here. If DTLA could feel like Pasadena, then we should be so lucky.And I'm gonna say that your positive tude towards that hood isn't based on things like transit, assuming the gold line isn't considered, by you or most others, as making pasadena way more train friendly than other hoods in SoCa.

And I don't think your happiness towards that part of LA (or So Ca) is the exception to the rule, esp true when applied to ppl who rate their favorite hoods----& may also give thumbs up to dena (but not rosemead, canoga pk or Montebello or lomita)----but also prefer traveling around in a car or anything but the MTA's slow buses.

So a good reaction is based on a whole lot of other things. of course, dena would be even better if it had the red line, blue line & green line running down (or under) every other street. But it can still good marks even without that.

That's why I think if ppl believe the magic bullet to turning around DTLA is transit, transit, transit----& they tend to downplay the need for other changes & improvements----they're missing the fundamentals, or maybe the bigger picture----& setting themselves up for alot of disappointment.



Walking over to the Disney Hall in a few moments to watch Esa-Pekka conduct. Then onto philharmonic's party at the Edison. Ever since moving downtown 9 years ago, I can honestly report that living here just gets better and better.In some important ways, the hood is better today than its ever been, or better than it was over 50 yrs ago.


L.A.- the West Coast's culture capital

Mark Rudio
April 15, 5:43 PM
examiner.com

San Francisco has a long tradition of deriding Los Angeles as a vapid wasteland deviod of any culture. While this was never likely to be true, what is true is that Los Angeles is now the cultural capital of the West Coast - a city second only to New York as the most vibrant place for culture in the U.S.

I won't need to extoll the virtues of our local cutlural scene to those of you already participating in it. But if you really enjoy culture - the performing arts, music, museums, art, nightlife and food - then you would be well-served by heading south a couple of times a year.

I just spent the better half of last week in downtown L.A. and without even leaving the neighborhood saw two performances at LA Opera, attended one of the best concerts I've ever seen at Walt Disney Hall, had a blast at the provacative and lively Spring Street Art Walk, ate great food in innovative restaurants and had cocktails in some pretty awesome bars. If I had more time and money I would have also seen Leonard Cohen, attended the theater and checked out a few museums, as they were all right there too.

[ChrisLA]

L.A.- the West Coast's culture capital

Mark Rudio
April 15, 5:43 PM
examiner.com

San Francisco has a long tradition of deriding Los Angeles as a vapid wasteland deviod of any culture. While this was never likely to be true, what is true is that Los Angeles is now the cultural capital of the West Coast - a city second only to New York as the most vibrant place for culture in the U.S.

I won't need to extoll the virtues of our local cutlural scene to those of you already participating in it. But if you really enjoy culture - the performing arts, music, museums, art, nightlife and food - then you would be well-served by heading south a couple of times a year.

I just spent the better half of last week in downtown L.A. and without even leaving the neighborhood saw two performances at LA Opera, attended one of the best concerts I've ever seen at Walt Disney Hall, had a blast at the provacative and lively Spring Street Art Walk, ate great food in innovative restaurants and had cocktails in some pretty awesome bars. If I had more time and money I would have also seen Leonard Cohen, attended the theater and checked out a few museums, as they were all right there too.


Funny you post this because I see this with some of my family from the Bay Area. They would actually fly down to LA for a live theater performance rather than attend the same show in San Francisco. They sometimes will also visit New York for such things as well.

[edluva]

Los Angeles is flawed like every city on earth.

you're right. i mean, look at lagos. pshhh!

the great thing about LA is we have way more aggregate culture in our metro than even SF or Boston....SF or Boston!

don't even start with our weather. pshhh!

and our skyline has got to be, what, third or fourth largest after houston? it's even bigger than london's.....london's!

and best of all, there's no place like LA. i mean NY, paris, london, tokyo, SF, and other cities all have that same thing with people everywhere, narrow streets, and crowded downtowns. LA is the only one that doesn't follow their footsteps and does its own thing!!! it doesn't even think of those other places. and nor do i, an angeleno til i die!!!

[edluva]

:haha: LOL, For some reason when I read your posts I think of that character Ellen Page played in that movie Juno. Hypothetically, I think I would miss LA if I ever left it, but I would miss it a whole lot more if it was developed like San Francisco.

she's really cute. i adore her in that movie. i guess my sarcasm isn't exactly subtle is it.

you're right. i wouldn't wish LA was developed exactly like SF. like any other city it needs to find it's own character while growing in an ecologically sustainable way. usually though the end result does end up being dense, urban, and walkable regardless. and i'm definitely not going to miss the poverty, empty sidewalks, or faux-urban proxies for genuine urbanism.

and going by RALossi's account, it appears downtown's showing itself for what it really is. a rough neighborhood which is still climbing out of its decades of relegated status. to think we would even have any delusions to the contrary when it is surrounded by miles of rough neighborhoods on all sides is a wonder. i thought his statement on public agencies was spot on.

[tommaso]

[/b]And I'm gonna say that your positive tude towards that hood isn't based on things like transit, assuming the gold line isn't considered, by you or most others, as making pasadena way more train friendly than other hoods in SoCa.

And I don't think your happiness towards that part of LA (or So Ca) is the exception to the rule, esp true when applied to ppl who rate their favorite hoods----& may also give thumbs up to dena (but not rosemead, canoga pk or Montebello or lomita)----but also prefer traveling around in a car or anything but the MTA's slow buses.

So a good reaction is based on a whole lot of other things. of course, dena would be even better if it had the red line, blue line & green line running down (or under) every other street. But it can still good marks even without that.

That's why I think if ppl believe the magic bullet to turning around DTLA is transit, transit, transit----& they tend to downplay the need for other changes & improvements----they're missing the fundamentals, or maybe the bigger picture----& setting themselves up for alot of disappointment.



[/b]In some important ways, the hood is better today than its ever been, or better than it was over 50 yrs ago.


[/i]

I understand what you're saying and I think it's fair to say that L.A. has some cultural diversity and that includes the arts. Yes, downtown L.A. has museums as well as a variety of other cultural options. And of course if you really want to, you can take a train from downtown to Hollywood, a bus to Beverly Hills, Santa Monica and Venice and a taxi cab once you're in the general area you plan to be in. So, quite honestly, even when you're trying to get to a concert or a meeting, traveling from one place to another in L.A. is possible. But, it requires patience and can be time consuming.

I don't have the bus or train schedules right in front of me, but I'm sure the system doesn't run 24 hours a day. And when I say the system I mean the entire system, not just specific bus or train lines, but the entire system. And it would be foolish of me to say that I can personally live a fulfilling or functional life in L.A. without a car. The reasons for this are quite simple. Whether I'm going out for a burrito, going to visit a loved one at the hospital or going to a park, there is no way on earth I can accomplish all of these tasks without a car. The city is just way to spread out. And even if my entire life existed in downtown (Job, apartment, family, friends, activities), I still would require a car at some point. It's not like if I live in downtown, all of a sudden everything important in Los Angeles will move to downtown because I refuse to drive.

Essentially, everything great in Los Angeles outside of downtown will not shut down their operations and move to downtown just to make life livable for me without a car. And of course, there are natural limitations to what can and can't move. For example, I can't move the beach and the Santa Monica mountains to downtown. Downtown Los Angeles should have been built along the Pacific Ocean (this doesn't mean you can't have nice suburbs along the Ocean, surrounding downtown). But, we know that L.A. was planned differently.

So, now L.A. becomes a city of choices. Where do I work? How close do I need to live to work? Where do my loved ones live? And how close do I need to live to them? And where do my activities take place? The answers to these questions almost always require a car. I know that when I ask these same questions for New York City, the answer almost always includes a subway or possibly a bus or a cab. Two of the most important logistical questions are: what form of travel should I use to get from point A to point B and how long is the travel time?

The question is not: is L.A. better than N.Y. or vice versa? That's a non issue. The real issue is coming up with a reasonable and effective answer to these logistical questions and living with the consequences. If driving a car is necessary at times, then it is necessary. And there may be times I use public transit. Then, maybe a multi-prong approach can be an effective approach. I know driving can be a nightmare in L.A. and the traffic cannot be alleviated with more highway lanes or more highways. The only answer to this problem is building fast and efficient subways. Now is the time to connect L.A., and a subway to the sea is a good start!

In addition to the subways, I want to see higher density areas emerge all over Los Angeles. This is happening, as we are seeing 6 story buildings and some even taller replace older housing or empty lots. But, raising the density level of neighborhoods in L.A. is not the complete answer. I personally support and believe in mixed-use residential buildings as a piece to the puzzle in solving L.A.'s social urban problems. Moving forward, I think 6+ story buildings with ground floor retail have to be a part of the plan.

I'm sick and tired of seeing city block after city block of residential areas with no retail and no grocery stores for a square mile (sometimes more). This annoying scenario repeats itself over and over again in L.A. and a consequence of this development pattern is: it makes this city un-walkable. I'm not about to walk for a half hour one way to get a cup of water. But, that's the reality of living in many parts of L.A. Some neighborhoods will fight changing this pattern and will remain predominantly suburban and car dependent. Conversely, a minority of L.A. neighborhoods have the potential to urbanize and densify, thus potentially becoming walkable and car independent.

Breaking the cycle of poor development patterns that do not include retail and grocery on L.A. city blocks will be difficult. But, ultimately L.A. residents, politicians and real-estate developers will determine the fate of the transition from L.A. 'The mega-suburb' to, L.A. 'The developing city with many suburbs that refuse join in and act like a city'. Which L.A. do you represent and how do you want the future of L.A. to unfold?

[edluva]

^you're preaching to the choir. yup, you hit all the main issues, minus pollution of course. and driving 15-20 minutes through traffic to do groceries is just stupid. to celebrate the downtown ralph's like it's the second coming. "no city's perfect". huh. yeah. at least we've got art-walk, and ed hardy.

and your desire for density, well density won't happen without the infrastructure to support it. no mass transit = no density.

basically la is fucked without mass transit. it's as simple as that.

[citywatch]

The city is just way to spread out. And even if my entire life existed in downtown (Job, apartment, family, friends, activities), I still would require a car at some point. It's not like if I live in downtown, all of a sudden everything important in Los Angeles will move to downtown because I refuse to drive.All of this is made far worse cuz too many ppl, for any number of reasons, refuse to move closer to where they work, or work closer to where they live.

Now that's perfectly excusable if a person is facing economic or logistical problems. IOW, I'm aware the average person often doesn't have enough $$ to pick & choose from a million different places where they can move to, whether it's an apt, condo or house.

And alot of ppl do have to do back flips in finding a job----made far worse by the current recession----or accomodating the needs of their boss or manager. So if ppl are ordered by their boss to start working out of the field office that's 70 miles away from where they live, they either quit on the spot or grin & bear it.

However, I'm sure there are thousands & thousands of ppl who pack our crowded fwys on any given day, & drive hundreds of miles per wk, who have a lot more flexibility in choosing where they live, where they work. I'm sure alot of them could live in a hood like DTLA---& reduce their time & miles on the road----but they choose not to.

Why?

Maybe for some of the reasons that ralossi has experienced over the past several months, which are factors far worse today (inc crime, homelessness, vandalism) than they were over 50 yrs ago.

But lots of ppl started moving out of or avoiding DT over 50 yrs ago.

Why?

Well, someone mentioned DT being "surrounded by miles of rough hoods," which never were all that nice even from the beginning, even when they were alot newer & younger.

I've seen pics taken in the early 1900s of what's now called south pk & I've seen old pics of bunker hill. And alot of what I see in those pics doesn't look too good or too impressive. IOW, the hood seemed to be mostly fugly, or full of shack type bldgs & houses a loong time ago. Not the type of construction you'd associate with a big time town full of $$ & ppl with $$, which ppl will love being a part of, & fight to stay a part of.


Downtown Los Angeles should have been built along the Pacific Ocean (this doesn't mean you can't have nice suburbs along the Ocean, surrounding downtown).I've heard some ppl say over the yrs that DT should have been located nearer the coast, & that if it had, it wouldn't be in, or wouldn't have gotten into, such bad shape. Some of that is true. But is Pasadena near the ocean? Is Bev Hills near the ocean? Are some of the nicer hoods scattered throughout midtown LA, inc Hancock pk, the sunset strip & west Hollywood, near the ocean?


The only answer to this problem is building fast and efficient subways. Now is the time to connect L.A., and a subway to the sea is a good start! Improving transit should have been started yrs ago. but history is history, & big $$ are big $$, & govt agencies (inc the MTA) move slowly. That means the goal of a really good transit system won't see the light of day til most of us are in nursing homes or 6 ft under.

So for anyone who thinks LA's present & future (esp DT's) won't be good or nice without the creation of fantastic transit, they're setting themselves up for a big fall & major disappointment.


I'm sick and tired of seeing city block after city block of residential areas with no retail and no grocery stores for a square mile (sometimes more). I'm not really arguing against that point, but I'll say I can think of alot more times when I'm driving through the various hoods of the city & my immediate reaction is not that there's no retail or grocery stores. No, my gut reaction often is "uh, this hood sure is rundown & sad! Look at all the tagging! Look at all how dirty & broken down the sidewalks are! Look at all the vacant bldgs or trashy storefronts! Everything sure is fugly & depressing! Get me outta here!!!"

[dktshb]

It's not just that. It's the safety factor, with all these projects in such proximity to the center of the narcotics trade in the city. Hell, the Civic Center might as well be the Prison District with the insanity at Twin Towers and Men's Central Jail (http://tr.im/iVml) - Oh, look, a shiny new women's jail! Just what Downtown really needs.

It unnerves me that I got physically threatened by a guy calling my husband and me "Faggot" -- and finding ourselves completely alone on an empty, dark sidewalk in the evening. God forbid anyone actually leave their loft after 6:00pm!

It unnerves me that I see Crips and 18th Street Gang tagging in the neighborhood more and more. Then two people got shot on Skid Row the other morning.

It unnerves me that I got mugged walking down Main Street -- while I was walking home with two friends! They had insisted on walking me home, luckily for me. We didn't get two blocks before it happened.

It unnerves me that criminals get released from Twin Towers and just make their way down into the Historic Core -- then proceed to threaten me for not giving them money. This is all in addition to the normal everyday harassment and racist, homophobic bullsh*t that comes with living Downtown.

I don't want this thread to stray from development - just had to get it off my chest. This isn't normal, and as you can probably tell, I'm beginning to lose it.
Before, things like this were acceptable (ha!) because of the possibility of change. I love Downtown, I just don't know how much more of this I can stand.

I find it a worthy topic on the downtown development thread. I am considering moving back to Hollywood and was even considering giving Downtown a try so I appreciate your honest assessment. For Downtown to be the neighborhood we want it to be we're probably looking at a couple of decades and that's only if the first urban pioneers such as yourself stick it out. Hollywood still seems like a more sensible de facto center for the city of Los Angeles which is really kind of pathetic if you linger on that notion.

[Westsidelife]

^ What kind of a neighborhood do we "want it to be?"

[edluva]

a real one, i think

[213]

a real one, i thinkIt is getting there, albeit in increments. I moved to the Financial District (6th & Hope) two years ago and, though initially somewhat frustrated by the area's limited retail and services, am fairly amazed by the speed / extent to which gaps have filled. Within a five-block radius I now have a major grocer, several convenience stores and a slew of new bars & eateries. These, combined with the area's existing retail (Macys Plaza, City National Plaza, Rite Aid, Kinkos, post offices, etc.) and those slated to come online -- Regal Cinemas is a personal can't-wait -- give me a critical mass of relevant, walkable amenities that fairly exceeds what I had near downtown Culver City (itself a work in progress over many years).

Neighborhoods are also comprised of neighbors; my downtown neighbors are generally much more social, cohesive and community-minded, due perhaps to that living here is a choice not driven strictly by price brackets or the local schools. It certainly isn't a choice to avoid urban problems. Downtowners appear to share a strong personal interest in, and devotion to, their area despite its challenges -- a dynamic I never really saw on the west side. This bodes well for continued neighborhood / community development, in ways not always tracked by conventional meters.

As a whole, downtown has progressed immensely in just the past 10 to 15 years -- not a long time in development terms. The Arts District, where once I worked on days-long film shoots of car chases and gun battles, is now a populated neighborhood unsuited for such activity. Vacant office buildings that survived on film location fees now house residents and businesses. Friends of mine for whom a trip downtown was fairly dreaded, usually compelled by jury service or such, now follow downtown events and attend avidly. Central Division claims the lowest per-capita rate of reported street crime in the city, thanks in part to re-strategized policing and DCBID security patrols.

Improvement can never happen quickly or effectively enough for any genuine urban enthusiast, myself included. But DTLA is finding its way there, however haltingly, and I'm inclined to stick around for it.

;)

[dktshb]

Thanks for your input 213 and welcome to the forum.

Photographing the area over the years I've noticed Downtown has become more and more vibrant. The pace at which the historic core is being redeveloped and put out on the market seems to be staggering, but I realize visiting Downtown is one thing and living in it 24/7 is another. You're certainly going to have to live with a rougher edge element and the fact that the living experience doesn't quite measure up yet to an ideal urban living experience. As mentioned already the separate Downtown neighborhoods all seem to have too many barriers and dead zones between them to make the entire area feel cohesive, and these condo structures with 10 levels of exposed parking and mega developments like LA Live may fill gaps but are not my idea of ways to make the neighborhood come together.

[JDRCRASH]

Wow this thread is dying fast. Ye with little faith...

COLEMONKEE, HEEELP!!!

[colemonkee]

213 you make a very good point. I've been downtown for over 3 years now and have noticed a very strong sense of community amongst those of us that live here. I am good friends with a lot of my neighbors, and know quite a few people in other buildings just from meeting them out at local restaurants and bars. I get a general sense that most people living downtown really want downtown to "work" as a neighborhood, and are fairly committed to help see that process through.

And I've seen a lot of positive change over the last 3 1/2 years. Are we "there" yet? Not by a long shot. But the progress has been significant, and we should see incremental improvement at a somewhat slower pace for the next couple of years. Along with that will be some growing pains, but that's to be expected, in my opinion.

[RuFFy]

Evening from Philly!

I think the following that I found describes LA to a "T". I also think some don't get this and this may play a big role in their disappointment with LA's progress. For those that do... Enjoy. From an LA visitor (No JDR, not anyone I know).

I got back from Los Angeles last night and my head is still spinning. I'd move there again in a heartbeat. There are three great cities in the United States: there's Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York – in that order. I love Boston; I even love Denver; I like Miami; I think Washington DC is habitable; but Los Angeles is Los Angeles. You can't compare it to Paris, or to London, or to Rome, or to Shanghai. You can interestingly contrast it to those cities, sure, and Los Angeles even comes out lacking; but Los Angeles is still Los Angeles.

No matter what you do in L.A., your behavior is appropriate for the city. Los Angeles has no assumed correct mode of use. You can have fake breasts and drive a Ford Mustang – or you can grow a beard, weigh 300 pounds, and read Christian science fiction novels. Either way, you're fine: that's just how it works. You can watch Cops all day or you can be a porn star or you can be a Caltech physicist. You can listen to Carcass – or you can listen to Pat Robertson. Or both. That's how we dooz it.

L.A. is the apocalypse: it's you and a bunch of parking lots. No one's going to save you; no one's looking out for you. It's the only city I know where that's the explicit premise of living there – that's the deal you make when you move to L.A.

The city, ironically, is emotionally authentic. It says: no one loves you; you're the least important person in the room; get over it. What matters is what you do there.

And maybe that means renting Hot Fuzz and eating too many pretzels; or maybe that means driving a Prius out to Malibu and surfing with Daryl Hannah as a means of protesting something; or maybe that means buying everything Fredric Jameson has ever written and even underlining significant passages as you visit the Westin Bonaventura. Maybe that just means getting into skateboarding, or into E!, or into Zen, Kabbalah, and Christian mysticism; or maybe you'll plunge yourself into gin-fueled all night Frank Sinatra marathons – or you'll lift weights and check email every two minutes on your Blackberry and watch old Bruce Willis films.

Who cares?

Literally no one cares, is the answer. No one cares. You're alone in the world.
L.A. is explicit about that.

If you can't handle a huge landscape made entirely from concrete, interspersed with 24-hour drugstores stocked with medications you don't need, then don't move there. It's you and a bunch of parking lots.
You'll see Al Pacino in a traffic jam, wearing a stocking cap; you'll see Cameron Diaz in the check-out line at Whole Foods, giggling through a mask of reptilian skin; you'll see Harry Shearer buying bulk shrimp.

The whole thing is ridiculous. It's the most ridiculous city in the world – but everyone who lives there knows that. No one thinks that L.A. "works," or that it's well-designed, or that it's perfectly functional, or even that it makes sense to have put it there in the first place; they just think it's interesting.

And they have fun there.

And the huge irony is that Southern California is where you can actually do what you want to do; you can just relax and be ridiculous. In L.A. you don't have to be embarrassed by yourself. You're not driven into a state of endless, vaguely militarized self-justification by your xenophobic neighbors. You've got a surgically pinched, thin Michael Jackson nose? You've got a goatee and a trucker hat? You've got a million-dollar job and a Bentley? You've got to be at work at the local doughnut shop before 6am? Or maybe you've got 16 kids and an addiction to Yoo-Hoo – who cares?

It doesn't matter.

Los Angeles is where you confront the objective fact that you mean nothing; the desert, the ocean, the tectonic plates, the clear skies, the sun itself, the Hollywood Walk of Fame – even the parking lots: everything there somehow precedes you, even new construction sites, and it's bigger than you and more abstract than you and indifferent to you. You don't matter. You're free.

In Los Angeles you can be standing next to another human being but you may as well be standing next to a geological formation. Whatever that thing is, it doesn't care about you. And you don't care about it. Get over it. You're alone in the world. Do something interesting.

Do what you actually want to do – even if that means reading P.D. James or getting your nails done or re-oiling car parts in your backyard. Because no one cares.

In L.A. you can grow Fabio hair and go to the Arclight and not be embarrassed by yourself. Every mode of living is appropriate for L.A. You can do what you want. And I don't just mean that Los Angeles is some friendly bastion of cultural diversity and so we should celebrate it on that level and be done with it; I mean that Los Angeles is the confrontation with the void. It is the void. It's the confrontation with astronomy through near-constant sunlight and the inhuman radiative cancers that result. It's the confrontation with geology through plate tectonics and buried oil, methane, gravel, tar, and whatever other weird deposits of unknown ancient remains are sitting around down there in the dry and fractured subsurface. It's a confrontation with the oceanic; with anonymity; with desert time; with endless parking lots.

And it doesn't need humanizing. Who cares if you can't identify with Los Angeles? It doesn't need to be made human. It's better than that.

[tommaso]

http://www.laweekly.com/2008-05-01/news/doomscraper-here-comes-hollywood-s-first-ever-megascraper/

I remember being fascinated by this article a year ago! Clearly, Los Angeles will build up and this is the type of development we can expect to see in the near future. :)

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ McDonald is obviously anti-big city and he's already too late. LA is stifled by all this backward thinking and instead of writing an article based on principles surrounding land-use policy and how it affects quality of life other than just a skyscraper blocking out the sun in the afternoon, he becomes another reason why LA is immobile and 20 years behind everyone else. It's retards like him that slow the development of mass transit and mixed-use/compact developments to a crawl compared to other more ambitious cities with residents that "get it." This guy is more concerned about shadows than having a city that functions more effectively and he glorifies NIMBYs as opposed to supporting a greater cause: sustainability as well as improved quality of life in a city handicapped by traffic and the insatiable need for more parking spots. McDonald! Newsflash! More people in LA equals more cars, which equals "unsustainability." Conversely, more people with subways built, equals getting people around efficiently in a manner that is consistent and reliable as well as limitless capacity.

The LA Weekly can be such trash.

[Just-In-Cali]

Very interesting take Ruffy. I have to agree with much of of. The one thing I have said time and again, and what makes so many so mind consumingly infuriated with this city is that the people here refuse to be shamed into hating LA just because the critics dont think its "real" enough in their eyes. The city doesnt apologize for who it is and that just BURNS so many that stew in that self involved and self imposed sense of "rightness"
Thats what we see in here...people getting so angry, nasty and insulting just because, no matter how much they try and convince us that LA is wrong in every way, we still love it and need not justify why.
Downtown is the single best example of this. Some people simply hate it because it doesnt resemble in their mind, that ideal downtown that they mostly created in their own thoughts...but then you have people that love it regardless, and couldnt give two shakes about what the detractors say.
The most gratifying part is that these detractors probably lose sleep daily from their anger over being ignored, while the rest grab a cheap cocktail, see a show, and rest comfortably.
(Im sure i'll be ripped left and right by some, but Im done with arguing with them)

[JDRCRASH]

I could be wrong, but are some of you actually starting to appreciate LA's historical sprawling growth pattern?

[nk13]

thanks for all the pictures and updates...

[Kingofthehill]

From the "other" side of the tracks:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3584/3461939812_c2214225e1_b.jpg

[JDRCRASH]

While I agree that no city must be forced by others how to build itself, the fact remains is that the status quo, which is the lack of a more multi-node urban center with one major core, and a large non-auto transportation infrastructure to support it has only led to more sprawl, causing congestion, air pollution, and the loss of around $10 Billion a year in L.A County alone due to the countless hours wasted in car traffic.

[OneMetropolis]

Above L.A.

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/OneMetropolis/3120512033_1e04679a21_b1.jpg

[JDRCRASH]

^ That photo is awesome. There's so much parking lots to fill and old buildings to renovate.

BTW, i've been hearing on the news about a fight between those that want to name the new LAPD HQ after William Parker, while others want it named after Tom Bradley. I don't know about you guys, but i'd rather have the latter.

[OneMetropolis]

^ That photo is awesome. There's so much parking lots to fill and old buildings to renovate.

BTW, i've been hearing on the news about a fight between those that want to name the new LAPD HQ after William Parker, while others want it named after Tom Bradley. I don't know about you guys, but i'd rather have the latter.

Yeah! Any word about Park Fifth or The Grand Avenue?

[dachacon]

park fifth is still looking for financing. and the grand is the grand.
on a side note my aunt and uncle are moving their medical and law practice from texas to la because of lower rents here, not to mention a bigger cliental.
there looking at office space at the library tower, ernest and young building, and condos at park fifth, concerto, and maybe a rent to own at 717 9th.

[JDRCRASH]

Both projects are looking for financing; and with credit at a bone-crushing level that obviously is not gonna happen.

[JDRCRASH]

Low expectations for Concerto condo project in downtown Los Angeles (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-condos23-2009apr23,0,4519578.story)

Profits? The developer of the $300-million Concerto project would be happy to break even.


http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-04/46448566.jpg
Christina House / For The Times
Hassan “Sonny” Astani overcame an exasperating sequence of setbacks and hurdles to build a 30-story condo tower and a six-story loft building on Figueroa Street. “I’m really betting the ranch,” he said.


http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2009-04/46454152.gif



By Roger Vincent
April 23, 2009

When the Concerto high-rise condominium project opens this year in downtown Los Angeles, developer Hassan "Sonny" Astani will be lucky not to lose his shirt.

With the market for condos in woeful decline, he already knows he won't make much money -- if any.

Progress, at this point, would be to complete the $300-million project while staying out of bankruptcy.

Astani's struggles to keep the project going, his flirtations with disaster and his near-heroic efforts to save a project that is woefully out of time with the market are a painful illustration of the difficulties that face developers when boom goes bust.

Theirs is a business with a long timeline -- it takes years to bring a large project to fruition. But a lively market can go bust in a matter of months. And then what do you do?


"There is a huge inventory of unsold condos in downtown L.A.," said Delores Conway of the USC Lusk Center for Real Estate. "The supply is exceeding demand."

This month, the owners of the nearby Roosevelt Lofts filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after failing to sell enough condos to open the elaborately renovated office building to residents. Owners of the Brockman Building, another downtown condo project, also recently filed for bankruptcy protection.

Astani, an Iranian immigrant who adopted the nickname Sonny as a boy because he liked the singing duo Sonny and Cher, had a successful track record as an apartment and condo developer before tackling Concerto. It would be the 55-year-old's biggest project, filling a city block in the financial district with three buildings and a park.

But in 2007, after he had invested three years and $10 million, things started to go south. His bank had pulled out, his financial partners in Singapore wanted to walk away, and the once-hot condo market was losing steam. All he had to show for his time and money was a four-story hole in the ground across Figueroa Street from the Original Pantry restaurant.

Astani, who had been broke earlier in his career, was tempted to cut his losses. "People told me to stop," he said.

If the site, once a parking lot bringing in $1.2 million a year, went back to a block of smooth asphalt with painted white stripes, he could at least recoup a little money.

Instead, he pushed on through an exasperating sequence of setbacks and hurdles to build a 30-story condo tower and a six-story loft building, buying out his overseas partners and personally guaranteeing his loan, a risky move developers almost always avoid. He credits his practice of tai chi with teaching him to focus, stay calm and persist.

The condos are coming to market in the midst of one of the country's worst housing crashes. The sales office opened last week, but no deals have been closed so far.

The condos may or may not sell soon enough to make the developer any money. But the project's back story is also Astani's, and it proves his motto: "You have to have a Plan B and a Plan C."

The whole Concerto saga started with a fairly big risk when Astani paid $30 million for the 100,000-square-foot parcel in 2004, one of the highest prices per square foot ever paid for downtown land.

"It was a leap of faith that this would be the next big place," he said, because other developments, including a Ralphs supermarket and the $2.5-billion L.A. Live project, were planned for surrounding blocks. Both have come to pass, but the residential market is still soft.

Astani started digging a hole for the four-story underground garage in early 2007, but his construction lender, Fremont Investment & Loan, bailed out of commercial real estate lending under pressure from federal regulators. Astani had to stop work. He lined up another loan from Corus Bank, but his main financial partners in Singapore decided to get out.

"They wanted to stop wrestling with two banks," he said. Astani and a handful of remaining partners bought out the Singapore partners for $30 million and carried on, he said.

Meanwhile, even though credit markets were seizing up, construction costs were still rising in response to a long-running global real estate boom that had driven up demand for labor and materials such as steel and lumber. Astani calculated that he could save $15 million by taking over the role of general contractor. His lenders went along, but that put his financial neck on the line.

"I had to guarantee that I would finish the building, sell the units and pay them. If I fail, they can come in and take my house" and other assets, said Astani, who lives in Pacific Palisades. "I'm really betting the ranch."

He and his wife decided to press ahead, he said, after attending an ice-skating performance at Staples and seeing people out on the streets. "It's clear to me that people want to live here," he said.

Astani started as an industrial and systems engineer, with a degree from USC. But after six months in the field, he decided that he wasn't making enough money. He became a real estate agent and went to work selling condos on the burgeoning Wilshire Boulevard corridor near Westwood.

For a few years, commissions rolled in and Astani felt like a big shot. "I dressed like 'American Gigolo,' " he said, recalling the 1980 movie in which Richard Gere put Armani on the fashion map.

But the Wilshire condo market stalled, and Astani quickly ran out of money as he tried to keep up appearances. His black, two-seat Mercedes-Benz 450SL was repossessed, and he couldn't pay his rent.

With help from his family, Astani got back on his feet. He and his brother, Marco, went back to school at Cal State Los Angeles and got contractors licenses. From the mid- to late 1980s they built apartment buildings on the Westside that they sold to investors, including Lakers owner Jerry Buss and his real estate partner Frank Mariani.


Residential development worked for Astani until the early 1990s, when the Southern California real estate market crashed again. This time he got by through marketing himself to banks that owned repossessed commercial buildings they didn't want as someone who could manage properties while improving them for resale. He eventually started investing in some with Asian partners, which led him back to development in the 2000s as real estate again improved.

During his ups and downs, Astani learned to expect and prepare for bad times. He said the cycles have made him resilient -- and willing to make changes in order to survive.

"Sonny has always figured out how to work out whatever is thrown in his path," said Los Angeles City Councilwoman Jan Perry, who represents much of downtown. "He is very linear in his focus and plans everything he does very well," .

Plans for a profit from the first stage of Concerto appear to be out the window, though.

Astani has cut prices substantially from what he set two years ago, with smaller units dropped to $400,000 from $575,000 and larger ones down to $590,000 from $800,000. He hopes the lower prices will make it easier for customers to finance the units with conforming loans backed by the federal mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He declined to say whether the prices had dropped below the break-even point.

"My priority is to sell these and pay off the bank," Astani said. He'll hang on to the penthouses in hope of getting as much as $3.5 million for them someday.

If the project stays afloat, Astani plans to build a second, complementary tower. "The tops of the buildings twist and turn -- one tower moves in, the other tower moves out," said architect Douglas Hanson. "The project will be stronger when the second tower is there."

Hanson, of DeStefano + Partners, was project architect for Frank Gehry's Bilbao museum design and has collaborated with the architect Renzo Piano. Hanson's goal at Concerto was to make the project connect with the streets around it. "The whole block should be livable and urban, and not a big building sitting on a parking garage."

The environmentally friendly development will have shops and restaurants at ground level, public green space and a park for the practice of tai chi.

Astani believes that someday his buildings will be full of residents, even if he has to help some come up with down payments. "In a hot market, people line up," he said. "In a cold market, they still want to buy."

roger.vincent@latimes.com

[MPinsider]

Very interesting article about the Concerto. Some of those condos might be a steal at $400k, or possibly lower if the market continues to suck. I'm sure someone is going to make a lot of money investing in them now and then selling in the next boom.

[JDRCRASH]

The smallest lofts are around 730 sq ft according to their website's floorplans.

[tommaso]

Ten years from now, those $3.5M penthouse condos from Concerto will be worth $10M. I estimate that by 2020, DTLA will be a livable and exciting city worthy of its name, downtown! Of course, it's no surprise that I believe DT will be much safer in 2020 than it is now. Also, the neighborhood around Concerto will probably feel like a neighborhood by then. I like the park behind the 1st condo tower, it's a good concept! It tells me that you can have grassy areas next to high rise condos. And I'll take a high rise with a park over a 6 story building with no space for a park any day of the week! Go DTLA and bravo to the developer for really sticking this one out. This case goes to show you that we owe our city's development to the innovators and high risk-takers who put their necks and lives on the line for projects like this one to get built. I'm a real fan of what's going on DT especially near Staples. I remember when it seemed like that entire area was one humongous parking lot. Now, we see progress and although we don't always agree on the designs, we still collectively realize that DT takes baby steps and that baby steps have a big impact in embellishing the city! And in this particular case, the buildings, parks, restaurants, shops, etc. are the fancy decoration the empty parking lots were missing. :tup:

[towersla]

Ten years from now, those $3.5M penthouse condos from Concerto will be worth $10M. I estimate that by 2020, DTLA will be a livable and exciting city worthy of its name, downtown! Of course, it's no surprise that I believe DT will be much safer in 2020 than it is now. Also, the neighborhood around Concerto will probably feel like a neighborhood by then. I like the park behind the 1st condo tower, it's a good concept! It tells me that you can have grassy areas next to high rise condos. And I'll take a high rise with a park over a 6 story building with no space for a park any day of the week! Go DTLA and bravo to the developer for really sticking this one out. This case goes to show you that we owe our city's development to the innovators and high risk-takers who put their necks and lives on the line for projects like this one to get built. I'm a real fan of what's going on DT especially near Staples. I remember when it seemed like that entire area was one humongous parking lot. Now, we see progress and although we don't always agree on the designs, we still collectively realize that DT takes baby steps and that baby steps have a big impact in embellishing the city! And in this particular case, the buildings, parks, restaurants, shops, etc. are the fancy decoration the empty parking lots were missing. :tup:

I love the vision and your optimism. Thank you.

[ThreeHundred]

Clearer renderings of Libeskind's tower.

http://archpaper.com/uploads/image/LA_LiebTower.jpg
http://archpaper.com/uploads/Podium.jpg

[ThreeHundred]

Interesting article regarding Concerto (and lots of pics to boot).

From Curbed LA:

http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3652/3457516465_b628832b7f_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3568/3458182682_3b677fee1d_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3567/3458183486_402da24e76_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3564/3457367549_2b3563fcbb_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3092/3458186662_eac91ce7ff_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3618/3458187402_afec57eaef_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3205/3457369889_4a6a2a9127_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3629/3457438593_a22362e80b_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3601/3457445037_2651868362_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3611/3457362853_1514af8818_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3541/3457450875_1fa11fd5c1_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3593/3457459039_8c19b06f67_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3494/3457462025_72ee2e40c7_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3659/3458283356_94f8d6e33f_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3586/3457474027_52f0a1eddf_o.jpg
http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3583/3458294924_4da2073bfa_o.jpg
[img]

1. The Units: Two of three planned buildings are currently being sold. There’s the 77-unit loft building on Flower that will be ready for move-ins in June, and the 271-unit tower at Fig and 9th that will be ready for move-ins in October. The foundation for the third building, another tower which’ll go up on 9th, has been poured, but there’s no timeline for construction of that building. Additionally, a retail structure is planned for the rounded corner at 9th and Fig.

Prices will range from $350,000 for lofts to $3.5 million for penthouses. Overall, the tower starts at $500 a square foot and the loft buildings starts at $390 a square foot.


2. Sales Goal: Astani hopes to sell 150 units of the project’s units by September. At this point, they are “close to having 25 units in contract,” according to a sales rep. There are about 20 weeks till September, so means that Astani has to get 6 units a week if you subtract those 25 units (comparatively, reps for Evo reported earlier this year that they are currently closing about one contract a week).

In the event that units don’t sell quickly, would he consider going rental? “No,” he says. “There is so much competition in the downtown rental market.”

3. Famous Sushi Chef: Astani said he is finalizing a deal with a big name sushi chef from Tokyo to open his first US restaurant in Concerto, but a name for the restaurant hasn’t been determined. Retail is also coming to the loft building: Expected stores are a bike shop, café and a wine bar.

4. LED, Please: Developer Sonny Astani’s much-talked about "Blade Runner"-esque LED panel won’t rise on his first building. And the man is massively disappointed about this fact. He needed approvals for the LED signage, but that didn’t come in time for the construction (the sign requires pins that needed to be put into the cement during construction). When the city approvals did come, Astani had them transferred to the third building, the unbuilt tower. [/b]But the overall impact of the LED sign won’t be the same, he believes, given that the sign will now face 8th Street (looking towards Bunker Hill) rather than the more traffic-heavy 9th Street (towards the freeways). “It won’t be the same,” he says.[/b]

5. On Not Going to China: Let’s cut to the chase: Some parts of the building look expensive. Where did they spend a lot of money? The glass, according to Doug Hanson of the architectural firm DeStefano + Partners, the architect on the project. “The exterior skin, the big glass panels on the tower portion, it’s a very well made system,” says Hanson. “We didn’t go for more affordable, we didn’t go to China, it was American-made, we went for quality.” How expensive glass helps the design: “I was looking for material that picked up the shape of the building. It gets bigger at the top..it wouldn’t hold its shape..the glass helps the [definition of the shape]."

6. Yes, Downtowners Like Walking: “How do you make an all-glass building that is pedestrian friendly? ” Astani asks rhetorically. One solution: Adding terra cotta paneling alongside the building on Fig, the idea being that a earthy natural stone at the street level helps offset the glass above. [/b]Additionally, a paseo connecting Flower and Fig is planned (it’ll run parallel to the lot that’ll one day hold the new FIDM tower).[/b]

7. Yes, There Are Windows That Open: The crinkled steel paneling that breaks up the glass also hides windows; they are called hopper windows. Additionally, the steel paneling works aesthetically. "I wanted [the tower] to look like a wrinkled dress shirt,” says Astani. “To look like wrinkled and smooth at the same time.”

8. Meet LA Live: For better or for worse, the project is impacted by LA Live. Particularly before games at Staples Center, heavy pedestrian traffic flows down Fig. But that foot traffic is part is also going to draw people to the retail space. Referring to Concerto’s proximity to LA Live, Astani says: “We’re still trying to digest the effects of it,” he says, “It’s going to be monumental. There are have been criticisms of [LA Live] but that’s small compared to the benefits of it."

9. Boom and Busts: A former real estate agent, Astani has been through two real estate busts so far (the early 80s, and the early 90s.) What’s different about this one, if anything? "You can’t write a narrative about each one," he says. "There’s excess and then you have to adjust prices.”

10. Know Your Large Scale Art: At the very top of the building, there’s a large, dark art piece. According to Hanson, it was inspired by the large-scale ads and supegraphics in the neighborhood. Hanson points out that the attitudes towards supergraphics have changed since they originally designed the art piece (err, yes). Astani says the piece was also inspired by the artist Matisse. Also, the piece will impact some of the actual units themselves: Owners will see interesting shadows, for instance, in their units.

[JDRCRASH]

^ I actually wanted the LED to face Figueroa, due to the proximity of L.A. Live.

[JDRCRASH]

I love the vision and your optimism. Thank you.

Yeah, I really don't think that DTLA being a vibrant 24/7 walkable core by 2020 is being unrealistic. Not only is the economy probably going to recover 10 years before (unemployment will probably still rise, though), but transportation projects to get people out of their cars and into Downtown are gonna be finished by then, like Aqua Phase 1 and some parts of the Purple line. Don't forget the HSR, too.

[dachacon]

i was looking on redfin today and none of the units from concerto are listed yet. does anyone know when they'll be listed?
also when will pricing be released on 717 9th. i would love to move in there with a roommate once it opens. :)

[StethJeff]

If any of those Concerto units are still available in 3 years, I'll gladly buy one!

[colemonkee]

Great find on the Concerto article, ThreeHundy. Here's some shots from yesterday. A lot of the same angles, but whaddaya want?

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3990/concerto200904255.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4304/concerto200904252.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6037/concerto200904254.jpg

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1074/concerto200904251.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6912/concerto200904253.jpg

[colemonkee]

Ritz Carlton

From yesterday.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6929/ritztower200904252.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5685/ritztower200904251.jpg


717 Ninth

From yesterday as well.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/899/meruelo200904251.jpg

Windows going in on the retail spaces. Something tells me that fabric thing isn't permanent. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I wouldn't think the City would approve something like that as a final design element.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8626/meruelo200904252.jpg

[citywatch]

If a devlpr like this would have done better doing nothing with his land---& just let it remain as a parking lot---no wonder there are so many gaps & deadzones in the hood...
:pissed:


Downtown Builder Brings High-Rise Condo Project to Market at a Tough Time

If the site, once a parking lot bringing in $1.2 million a year, went back to a block of smooth asphalt with painted white stripes, he could at least recoup a little money.

Plans for a profit from the first stage of Concerto appear to be out the window, though. Astani has cut prices substantially from what he set two years ago, with smaller units dropped to $400,000 from $575,000 and larger ones down to $590,000 from $800,000. He hopes the lower prices will make it easier for customers to finance the units with conforming loans backed by the federal mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He declined to say whether the prices had dropped below the break-even point.

[edluva]

i think we should reposition all of CRA funds to buying and devlping on gaps & deadzones in the hood -- even @ a tremendous loss -- @ least downtown LA would look better than if it hadn't been devlped on.

wait, i'm sounding way too intellectual :brickwall:

[Just-In-Cali]

Well, there goes your dream of filler structures on every lot downtown citywatch.

[colemonkee]

c-dub, when an article has been previously posted, please quote the article to make your point. Don't repost the entire article.

[JDRCRASH]

Hey is that a billboard on the 888 building?

[ThreeHundred]

888 Building?

[colemonkee]

If you mean the Promerica Tower, yes, there is a banner for Chase Bank on it, facing the northbound Figueroa traffic.

[bobcat]

If a devlpr like this would have done better doing nothing with his land---& just let it remain as a parking lot---no wonder there are so many gaps & deadzones in the hood...


Yeah, but fortunately developers' sense of greed will always outweigh other considerations. This guy saw other people making a killing and wanted in on the honey pot too, but just like with any other type of speculative bubble, the last one in is going to be left holding the bag.

The housing boom is over for now, and it will take many years for prices to recover. But eventually all the units will get filled as LA is still short on housing while its population continues to increase.

In the meantime, expect a slew of hotel proposals over the next few years as the convention center gets booked up. First we'll see a couple of new hotels come online. Then when those are successful dozens of copycat developments will be announced, leading to the next wave of overbuilding.

It's all very predictable, and I'm amazed anybody is surprised.

[JDRCRASH]

888 Building?

http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=8153

[RAlossi]

So whats' the site of Concerto Tower 2 going to look like when the fencing comes down? Will it be an open wound on the pedscape or can it be "saved" for the time being? I haven't had a chance to get down there in a while.

[citywatch]

Yeah, but fortunately developers' sense of greed will always outweigh other considerations.

But in a way the most greedy ones, the worst ones, are those (either devlprs or landowners) who happily sit on their property for yrs & yrs----like the owners of the rundown bldgs on broadway, or the owners of parking lots, flophouses & half empty warehouses---milking it for all its worth. And, in the process, not lifting a finger to help improve the hood. And only changing their tune if the property no longer is making enough to cover basic expenses, esp the cost of annual property taxes.

And excuse my reposting the article on the concerto above. I now notice that jrdcrash posted that article around the time it first was published. With the economy in such a slump right now, scrolling through all the pgs of this forum no longer is quite as easy (re: enjoyable) as it once was.

[ThreeHundred]

^ That can be said for a lot (if not all) the cities in the US. Just be thankful that we don't have any holes in the ground (see Chicago Spire) or halted projects (Waterview Tower in Chicago and Echelon Place in Vegas) all around LA.

[edluva]

^i'll take a couple new holes in the ground if LA had as many of holes filled as chicago did

[JDRCRASH]

With the economy in such a slump right now, scrolling through all the pgs of this forum no longer is quite as easy (re: enjoyable) as it once was.

No kidding. I'm surprised this thread is still near the top of the City Compilations' first page.

[JDRCRASH]

Angling for a piece of L.A.'s future clean-tech center (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-clean-tech28-2009apr28,0,3196324.story?page=1)

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-04/46541890.jpg
Luis Sinco / Los Angeles Times
The Los Angeles River runs through much of the area that the mayor envisions for the clean-tech site. Councilman Ed Reyes hopes to see a refurbished riverfront that would welcome bicycles and pedestrians.

Jockeying has already begun for a piece of Villaraigosa's ambitious plans for a 2,236-acre project near downtown that the mayor hopes will transform L.A. into 'the global capital of clean technology.'

By Maeve Reston
5:04 PM PDT, April 27, 2009

The showpiece of Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's vision for a clean technology manufacturing corridor east of downtown isn't much to look at. The scraggly 20-acre plot, dotted with weeds and pipes venting deep soil gases, was once envisioned as the site of a state prison.

But the mayor and his team are marketing this industrial parcel, dubbed the CleanTech Manufacturing Center, as a business incubator in the mold of Silicon Valley.

Amid 12% unemployment and a city budget crisis, the corridor concept was one of the few bright spots in Villaraigosa's recent State of the City address.

Though it would rely heavily on private investment and money from state and federal sources, it is a critical component of the mayor's "green jobs" agenda as he eyes a probable run for governor in 2010. And it could be a test of his pledge to transform Los Angeles into "the greenest and cleanest big city in the nation," drawing more than a third of its electrical power from renewable sources by 2020.

Outlining his agenda earlier this month, the mayor set the bar high, saying the plan could make Los Angeles "the global capital of clean technology."


Cecilia V. Estolano, chief executive of the Community Redevelopment Agency, has led development of the CleanTech Corridor concept. She contends that Los Angeles is "driving the technology, and we're driving demand and that is a huge calling card."


http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-04/46541891.jpg
Lawrence K. Ho / Los Angeles Times
Redevelopment official Cecilia Estalano, left, and city planner Claire J. Bowin look over the corridor plan.


The corridor envisioned by city planners spans 2,236 acres -- about 10% railroad-owned -- east of Alameda Street, with its borders still in flux. It begins at a swath of land straddling the L.A. River, near Los Angeles State Historic Park (the former Cornfield), that Councilman Ed Reyes hopes to transform into a neighborhood where bicycles and pedestrians would rule and carbon emissions would be cut by 35%. Then it runs south through the site of a future Department of Water and Power research center into the Artists-in-Residence district, which stretches from Alameda to the river and from 1st Street to south of 7th Street.

The vacant CleanTech Manufacturing site at Santa Fe Avenue and 15th Street, just south of the 10 Freeway, forms the corridor's southern anchor.

The jockeying for a piece of a project at the top of the mayor's agenda has already begun.

Last fall, CRA officials and the mayor's business team began courting clean technology companies -- talking up the purchasing power of the city's public utilities, as well as the array of federal, state and city tax incentives available to business.

More than 100 companies, from solar and electric car manufacturers to a garment recycling business, expressed interest in the CleanTech site, which the city purchased from the state last April for $14 million.

The most intensive push, coordinated by the mayor's office, has been for an Italian rail manufacturer, AnsaldoBreda, which is angling for a $300-million rail car construction contract with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. The contract is controversial because some MTA officials have been unhappy with the company's performance in meeting rail car contract specifications in the past.

If it secures the contract, AnsaldoBreda has promised to build a $70-million manufacturing plant. A number of political insiders are working to get the deal done, including the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor, lobbyist Chris Lehane and the green building company Shangri-LA Construction, founded by prominent Democratic contributor and Villaraigosa donor Steven Bing.

In an interview, Estolano said the CRA is still marketing the CleanTech site to other companies as the agency negotiates with AnsaldoBreda, which must win over MTA commissioners.

"This is a growth sector for us in Los Angeles, and we have one shot at a 20-acre site," Estolano said. "If it doesn't work out for them [AnsaldoBreda] at the MTA, it's too bad. We're moving on."

http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2009-04/46557450.gif

Farther north in the corridor, the mayor's team will soon unveil plans for a DWP research center focusing on renewable energy, climate change and water intended to attract companies that want to work with area universities.

The cluster of laboratories would be housed in an old transformer warehouse overlooking the river on the DWP's Main Street site, and the DWP recently secured a private donation that will allow the department to perform a $4.5-million "green retrofit" of the building.

Among the projects planned: development of aerospace technology with Caltech and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory that would help the DWP better measure snowpack in the Eastern Sierra and dust in the Owens Valley.

In the basement of the DWP building, UCLA would build a wind tunnel testing facility. Meanwhile, USC is exploring the site as a home for a research institute that would study how to make data centers more energy efficient.

"The city really provides a platform to have a lot of technologies tested," said John X. Chen, the DWP's executive director of customer service and water conservation. He said the city will be spending billions of dollars trying to reach the mayor's renewable energy goals. For those reasons, he argued that when competing for grants, "We will be very, very competitive against anybody out there."

The mayor's interest in the CleanTech corridor has brought new attention to preliminary plans for a pedestrian- and cyclist-centered neighborhood at the northern end of the corridor.

The Cornfield/Arroyo Seco specific plan area spans more than 600 acres -- from Los Angeles State Historic Park, across the river into Lincoln Heights.


At the heart of the area are 33 city-owned acres that include city departments, maintenance yards and asphalt parking lots. For years, Reyes has complained that use of the land near the river has made the city "the biggest slumlord in his district" -- sending the message "that this was a throwaway community."

With a push from the mayor, he hopes the city can consolidate and free up some of that land for residential and commercial development.

The city would also place special restrictions on developers within a mile of the river, requiring open space and measures to reduce carbon emissions in the neighborhood.

Over the last six years, Reyes said, he has been working toward removing the heavy industrial zoning restrictions to allow more commercial and affordable housing projects.

Although acknowledging that the city is just one of many in line for federal assistance, the councilman said he hopes the plans could ultimately spur "a green urban village that embraces jobs, makes the automobile secondary with shuttles, rail transit stops and priority for bicycles."

The proximity to the Gold Line could draw young professionals, and Estolano believes a neighborhood with those features could serve as another hook for clean technology companies whose engineers want to live nearby.

The mayor's recent speeches have created "a magnifying glass for this area," Reyes said. In this economy, he, along with many others, will be watching to see whether the mayor can turn blueprints into buildings.

maeve.reston@latimes.com

[Just-In-Cali]

^i'll take a couple new holes in the ground if LA had as many of holes filled as chicago did

Correction, you would take a couple of new holes in the ground if they came with the name Chicago. :rolleyes:

Well, we can hope that Astani puts a large green patch there with a simple turf layer until he decides to (or not) do something with the rest of the site.
Low cost green spaces would be my temporary solution to the empty lots. Heck, they could even put down that false turf and a few concret benches and call it a day. Even that would improve the look of neighborhoods around downtown. :tup:

[JDRCRASH]

^ By "false turf", do you mean fake grass? Either way, more green spaces would be good.

[StethJeff]

Would this CleanTech Manufacturing Center consist of old warehouses being converted, demolitions & new construction, a little bit of both?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

i would hope new stuff. the city would really have to clean up that area. repave the roads, redo the sidewalks, underground and upgrade the utilities, plant trees and other landscaping, and install newer street furniture, bike lanes, recycle bins. the list goes on and on.

[edluva]

Correction, you would take a couple of new holes in the ground if they came with the name Chicago. :rolleyes:


nope. don't put words in my mouth. i said what i said. chicago has a couple holes, but it's also put up enough new buildings to replace a good chunk of downtown los angeles's all over again.

just becuase you choose to not to have any perspective whatsoever and would rather overlook that second fact doesn't mean i have to. you're only making a joke out of yourself if you expect others to be as obnoxiously biased as you are :tup:

on a separate note, this cleantec push by villaraigosa is a positive development with some actual "meat" on it. say what one wants of him, and times are definitely different now, but it would be have been unfathomable to hear hahn or riordan even uttering anything so progressive for their time. kind of a sad truth when making visionary declarations alone qualifies as progress for LA.

[StethJeff]

i would hope new stuff. the city would really have to clean up that area. repave the roads, redo the sidewalks, underground and upgrade the utilities, plant trees and other landscaping, and install newer street furniture, bike lanes, recycle bins. the list goes on and on.

My thoughts exactly. That entire area is crap. How the city can possibly manage to turn 1000's of acres of crap into sudden must-have property to open an insulation factory boggles my mind. Hopefully it speeds up this revamping and restoration of the LA River!

[Just-In-Cali]

And JD, yeah that fake grass stuff. I have seen many public spaces in dry areas like Las Vegas and Phoenix use it, and it looks great, needs very little water and almost no work to be kept up. Even better is that it can easily be pulled up when time and money comes in to finish a block or lot with actually development. Im sure there is more too it, but at least it would be a nice placeholder. Plus it would give the locals more "Green" space to use...never a bad thing I would imagine.

[XLucky4LifeX]

LA is turning Seoul...
Everything is owned my Koreans and will be owned by Koreans.

Anyways...
You guys remember how LA looked like in the 1980's?
Then suddenly, buildings started popping out...
Century City is gonna happen the same way DTLA expanded the skyline.
And DTLA is still expanding...
After Century City turns DTLA, and DTLA turns Chicago... then what will be the next Century City?
Just my prediction...

[edluva]

It was a joke...no reflection on you. :rolleyes: And any attention you shine on me makes me feel good ed, you know that :D
Keep on knawning on that rawhide to release stress...its good for you.
And if by any perspective you mean YOUR perspective...that is true. :tup:


wow, you can act pretty confident - trying to portray my perspective as somehow on equally subjective terms with yours. but can you go avoid taking offense to the factual comments i make about LA every time i make them? apparently not, as demonstrated by your inability to ignore comments that were never aimed at you. our "relationship" is more of a one-way street that you'd rather admit. i call homerist bias. let's let actions speak louder than words

xlucky4lifex - we should worry about cc becoming dtla becoming chicago when pigs fly. as far as la turning seoul, the impact of korean investors is so strongly felt because there are so few investors in our city to begin with. it's not difficult to be a bigshot here whether you're talking the level of educational or economic attainment.

[XLucky4LifeX]

I'm seeing more buildings that include spires on top.
This is so not LA now.
LA is unique because of it's flat-top skyline.
Good for spire people, bad for flat top people.
LA is an example of how cool a skyline could be with a flat top skyline.
I mean... look at Figueroa At Wilshire, 801 Tower, and Gas Company Tower!
They have nice designs!

[citywatch]

the city would really have to clean up that area. repave the roads, redo the sidewalks, underground and upgrade the utilities, plant trees and other landscaping, and install newer street furniture, bike lanes, recycle bins. the list goes on and on.
Is that too much to ask for?!

I've long believed that half the battle is getting more ppl to sit up (or wake up) & say, OMG, this hood is a disgrace! Why is nothing being done to fix it up?!

Yes, I know, talk is easy, talk is cheap. But sometimes I think too many ppl in LA----esp the ppl in city govt----become so accustomed to the skanky condition of far too many hoods throughout the city, they soon end up being not bothered by much of it. Or they believe the situation is so hopeless that nothing can be done to improve things. And so they pretend it's not really a big problem or big issue to begin with.

However, the article posted by jrdcrash does point to something that may have legs if more land can be assembled & put together for major new devlpt.

I know alot of sites in the industrial hoods of DT have grown less competitive through the yrs cuz most of the bldgs are too small & antiquated, the land they sit on is too small, & the streets around them aren't laid out efficiently.

I was around 12th St & Central a few months ago & the condition of the streets & alleyways around there was unbelievably rundown. Potholes all over the place. Ppl driving in that part of DT all the time must have to get the wheels of their cars or trucks constantly serviced & realigned.

In a way it would be a good thing if more & more of the wasteland or slumland in DT were given up by their current owners, definitely if the current owners are absentee, and placed into receivership. The silver lining would be if those properties were then grabbed up by new owners who hopefully would be more aggressive & ambitious about cleaning up the hood.

[StethJeff]

LA is turning Seoul...
Everything is owned my Koreans and will be owned by Koreans.

Anyways...
You guys remember how LA looked like in the 1980's?
Then suddenly, buildings started popping out...
Century City is gonna happen the same way DTLA expanded the skyline.
And DTLA is still expanding...
After Century City turns DTLA, and DTLA turns Chicago... then what will be the next Century City?
Just my prediction...

With respect to verticality, I think that Hollywood is trying to become the next Century City. And DTLA will never become Chicago.

[ThreeHundred]

In 50 years, Vernon will be the new Watts and Lennox will be the new Duarte.

I can't wait!

:hyper:

citywatch, I think you think that crappy roads and slum like conditions are just a downtown LA thing but as I've been saying for a while now that those things are all over the place. Tucson where I now live for example, has roads that are in DIRE need of repair. Giant potholes that look not unlike craters. Shoddy buildings too. There is one building downtown that is being held up by stilts. I'm not trying to justify the shitty conditions in DTLA but it isn't just there.

[citywatch]

I think you think that crappy roads and slum like conditions are just a downtown LA thing but as I've been saying for a while now that those things are all over the place. Every city has its bad side. But some cities have more than others. So it comes down to the percentage of slums in one town compared with the % of slums (or dives) in another.

Now if things like this become more common in DTLA, the % of bad to good in the hood will no longer be an issue.



Is Downtown Ready for Bottega Louie?

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-04/46591934.jpg
The new restaurant and gourmet market is in a building whose owner recently declared
bankruptcy, but owners of the food emporium are confident about its prospects.

By Betty Hallock
April 29, 2009

Bottega Louie seems too good to be true. And maybe it is. A palatial restaurant/gourmet market/patisserie opens downtown-- a marvel of white marble, brass trim and floor-to-ceiling windows that's aswarm with smiling servers. One look at all those macarons at the pastry counter, and you can almost imagine a world without the reverberations of a subprime credit crisis.

Yet not all is springing up roses and viennoiserie at the corner of 7th Street and Grand Avenue in downtown L.A. Bottega Louie is on the ground floor of the Brockman Building, below 11 floors of empty condos, whose developer has declared bankruptcy. It's a case study in the spillover optimism that still permeates downtown, locked in a brutal face-off with current financial realities.

As Bottega Louie's owners see it, their 10,000-square-foot paean to the good life is more than the marble and brass with which it was meticulously constructed. They've got their sights set on building "a lifestyle-enhancement brand" -- a high-end, mid-priced restaurant and market in one, with several locations in L.A. and beyond, says Bottega Louie co-owner and President Daniel Flores.

It's a production

No detail has been overlooked. More than three years in the making, Bottega Louie has 20-foot ceilings, more than 2,000 feet of brass millwork, marble-tiled floors, custom deli cases and tables, and about 200 employees. The kitchen handles 600 recipes for the Italian menu and the prepared dishes for the market. The bakers turn out 800 pastries a day; stacks of pastel boxes tied with silk ribbon decorate the windows along Grand Avenue.

There's a full bar, a counter devoted to 20 kinds of breads, a brick oven churning out pizzas and a carving station. A bevy of managers stroll the floors; at times it takes three hostesses -- armed with a laminated map of the tables and stationed at a gilt Baroque-style, curve-legged console in the middle of the restaurant -- to greet and seat patrons.

One customer was overheard saying, "It's like the Taj Mahal in here" -- that is, if the Taj Mahal had sweeping bare-white walls with French moldings and Regency touches.

But the week before Bottega Louie opened April 6, the company that developed the loft-style condos above it filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, and the building faces foreclosure. And it's not the only bankruptcy on 7th Street; the nearby luxury condo project at the Roosevelt Lofts building is financially strapped too and stands empty. Roosevelt Lofts LLC filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection two weeks ago.

Flores says a foreclosure wouldn't affect Bottega Louie and that the team is undeterred. "We only stand to gain when these units are eventually filled," he says. "The building will ultimately end up in the right hands."

Already, droves of downtown office workers -- about 450,000 people work downtown, according to the Downtown Business Improvement District -- are showing up for lunch at Bottega Louie.

Optimism on 7th

Plenty of others are banking on 7th Street.

Walgreen Co. has just leased a 16,100-square-foot retail space at the corner of 7th and Hope streets. A sign on the same block says, "Céfiore Italian Gelato Coming Soon." In the building next to Bottega Louie, Sandella’s -- a chain of fast-casual restaurants featuring pizza-like flatbreads -- is planning to move in. Across the street from Bottega Louie, there's Seven Grand, the whiskey bar from Cedd Moses' 213 group, and Seven Restaurant & Bar (as well as a 7-Eleven).

Bullish real estate brokers are still calling it the "7th Street renaissance." Meanwhile, plenty of "for lease" signs still hang in windows.

High hopes were pinned on the Beaux Arts Brockman Building when it was bought by West Millennium in 2004 from a Japanese developer that essentially abandoned the property after a hotel and office project went south in the early '90s. A Brooks Bros. store had occupied the ground floor until 1989. But today, 76 condos that once were expected to be sold for $300,000 to $1 million sit vacant.

So what drew Bottega Louie to downtown? The first place the owners had looked when setting out to find a flagship for their brand was Beverly Hills, in a 2,500-square-foot space that formerly housed the Airstream Diner.

"You've got to try downtown." That's what Bottega Louie partners heard from boosters at the Central City Assn. of Los Angeles. The partners include Flores, chef Sam Marvin, chief financial officer Kevin McKellar and investors Keat and Klara Bollenbach. Marvin previously had worked at Piero's in Las Vegas and Le Dome under tycoon-turned-restaurateur Ronald Tutor, where he and Flores met and where the Bollenbachs were regulars.

"Our first reaction [to downtown] was 'no,' " Flores says. "But we spent months walking around here, looking at businesses, restaurants, Starbucks. It's how we do things. We're very analytical and iterative. We have spreadsheets on everything."

All those spreadsheets led to them falling in love with the place.

After months of researching restaurants, high-end grocers, and pizza places across the country, "we knew all of the pieces that we wanted," Marvin says. "A big kitchen, market, pizzas, pastries, coffee."

The Brockman Building developer initially wanted a retailer, not a restaurant, but was swayed by the Bottega Louie vision, which includes several future Louies. (Flores and Marvin say they already are looking for their next location.)

And who knows? Maybe the vision is already attracting the right customers.

One recent evening in the cheese section of the market, a man leaned over to his companion as she picked up a fragrant wedge of Abbaye de Belloc, and said, "Isn't this place great? Maybe I should buy the building."



The Hot New Downtown L.A. Restaurant Scene

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-04/46611027.jpg
Head chef Walter Manzke, third from right, looks over a dish before it does out at Church
& State, a French bistro on Industrial Street in downtown Los Angeles, in the restored
National Biscuit Company building. Jay L. Clendenin / Los Angeles Times

Downtown is the dining destination of the moment. Many new restaurants have opened there recently, joining old favorites. Here are 10 standouts.

By S. IRENE VIRBILA, Restaurant Critic
April 29, 2009

Downtown? Until very recently, if you asked someone to meet you for dinner there, it was roughly the equivalent of asking them to join you on the moon. I've met people who have never been within shouting distance of the area, even though they've lived in L.A. practically all their lives. Time to get over it, because downtown L.A. has blossomed into a bona fide destination with a growing roster of intriguing dining possibilities.

So much, in fact, is happening downtown, restaurant-wise, that it's difficult for a hardworking critic to keep up. For the first time in decades, the city's center offers a full array of places to eat at all price levels, with more opening all the time.

Here are my favorites of the moment, most new, some old.

Sibling to Chaya Brasserie Beverly Hills (and Chaya Venice, as well as a San Francisco outpost), the new Chaya Downtown showcases chef Shigefumi Tachibe's East-West cooking in a restaurant with a grand outdoor terrace, a full sushi bar and a handsomely appointed dining room. The menu is very appealing, because it's so different from the other high-end restaurants in this part of town. Tachibe's got some delicious crudo (raw fish), a blood orange and beet salad with chèvre and dried figs, fresh grilled sardines with pearl barley and spring vegetables, miso-marinated white sea bass with rice galette and braised Kobe beef short ribs. The sommelier is on the case, and it all feels very sophisticated.

By the library

Practically next door, in the same complex on Flower Street across from the Central Library, is Celestino Drago's most ambitious restaurant yet, Drago Centro. His first restaurant downtown, it's quite the glamour queen, with an expansive bar, an outdoor terrace and a dining room with vaulted ceilings and black Venetian glass chandeliers. The view of the library and its garden is thrilling too.

Drago and chef Ian Gresik's cooking does the space proud, with beguiling pasta dishes, such as oxtail ravioli with celery root, paccheri with spot prawns and puttanesca, or pizzoccheri made with buckwheat flour. Main courses, which include an excellent bisteccaPiemontese for two, are well-executed but can't compete with the pasta. A bar menu offers salumi, baccalà mantecato (salt cod purée), chickpea fritters and other stuzzichini (little bites) to go with a glass of Prosecco or aperitivo.

A slew of Latin-themed restaurants have opened downtown, but the best of the bunch is John Sedlar's Rivera, where the chef is making an overdue comeback with his refined and inventive cooking. A long, narrow space with a communal table, banquettes and a smaller dining room with walls lined in custom tequila bottlings, Rivera is a short stroll from L.A. Live. Stop in for some stellar tequila and tortillas florales (freshly made tortillas with flowers and herbs pressed into their surface) and avocado butter, maybe a short rib tamale or duck confit in a beautifully poised Rioja sauce.

For thin-crusted Roman-style pizzas, head to Bottega Louie at 7th and Grand, a combination restaurant-bar-gourmet grocery and takeout with breathtakingly high ceilings and gilt-encrusted appointments. No reservations -- the place is huge -- for those pizzas, pasta, of course, and moderately priced entrees. Three thin Kurobuta pork chops with house-made chunky applesauce are just $14, sautéed chicken with artichokes and capers, $15. Dried pastas fare better than the clunky, too-rich ravioli. On the way out, you can pick up some Straus Family milk or cream, maybe a chocolate bar too.

Former Bastide chef Walter Manzke has gotten into French bistro food in a big way at Church & State in the former loading dock of the 1925 National Biscuit Co. Building. The place, backed by Cobras & Matadors' Stephen Arroyo, can feel like one night-long party, with piazza lights strung across the high ceilings, red leather bistro chairs and a bar serving trendy absinthe. And the food is terrific: Manzke makes his own charcuterie and changes the menu frequently to present his take on bistro classics such as escargots (each snail in its own porcelain dish topped with a flirty puff pastry crown), cassoulet (a different one each day), marinated herring and potato salad, house-cured salmon tart, and mussels steamed in white wine and served with a heap of pommes frites fried in lard for extra flavor. With most of the main courses less than $20, including a fine duck confit, small wonder the place is packed every night.

Wurst and fries

The quirky Wurstküche is a sausage lover's dream. The concept is simple: more than 20 different sausages (alligator and pork smoked andouille or duck and bacon with jalapeño, anyone?) on a soft bun with your choice of accompaniments (caramelized onions, sweet peppers and sauerkraut, for example), a bevy of mustards, a side of stubby Belgian fries. Now you've got your choice of two dozen or so draft beers, an additional dozen in bottles -- and, if one of the young owners is around, a built-in beer sommelier. Once you've got your brew -- and your sausage (in theory, eight minutes from the time it goes on the fire), head for the festive back room, which is outfitted with a long communal table, mismatched chairs and, when you're ready for another beer, a bar. It's open all through the afternoon and late into the night for a quick pick-me-up.

What downtown doesn't have its classic diners? We, of course, have the Original Pantry Cafe, L.A.'s favorite greasy spoon, which has kept the faith for 85 years. But now we also have the charming Nickel Diner in a properly funky neighborhood, a sweet update on a classic with period light fixtures, red Naugahyde seating and retro comfort food from chef Monica May.

Though it draws a crowd at breakfast (maple-glazed bacon doughnuts) and lunch (BLTs and pulled pork sandwiches), it's just opened for dinner. Get your bowl of chicken pozole garnished with tortilla strips and avocado, an order of crunchy onion rings, a gooey patty melt or a Nickel burger with brilliant skinny fries. But I'm for the pure comfort of a roast chicken stuffed with mushroom duxelles and perched on a classic bread stuffing with pan gravy. For dessert? Try pastry chef Charlena Fong's red velvet layer cake, "salt peanuts" cake or an haute version of the Hostess Ding Dong.

Wine bars don't come any sleeker than Corkbar at 12th and Grand. In a space with soaring ceilings, wine storage that reaches for the heights and a nifty, wraparound bar, tall tables, rock-hard stools and benches and a spacious outdoor terrace, Corkbar focuses on California wines. Not all of the staff is wine-savvy, so you're basically on your own, though the list does offer descriptions. It's also pricey: Only two of the wines by the glass cost less than $10.

The food is mostly snacks and sandwiches -- farmhouse Cheddar gougères (cheese puffs), mac 'n' cheese revved up with Pasilla chiles, grilled cheese or farmers market veggie sandwiches. Still, it's a nice place to hang, and it's open -- as they say -- "from 11:30 a.m." (That seems to translate to until midnight most weeknights and later on the weekends).

Seafood in style

Sushi Gen is still the best spot for sushi downtown, but there's almost always a wait. If you want to eat Japanese in a stylish setting, there's R23,which is holding its own after 16 years. But sushi is not the best item on the menu. Instead, go with the reliable crab salad, made with lump crab meat, or the delicious salmon skin salad, both in a perky dressing. Try the crunchy hot wasabi greens too, or the miso soup with clams. The grilled yellowtail collar is a must. Take your chopsticks and dig into the rich, moist flesh, caramelized at the edges -- it's a real treat. The loft-like setting, with its bare brick walls, Gauguin-esque paintings and Frank Gehry's cardboard chairs, is a plus too.

And last but not least, Water Grill is still the place downtown for impeccable chilled shellfish -- fresh Dungeness crab, Long Island cherrystone clams, oysters from all over, Mexican white shrimp. But also, be sure to take advantage of chef David LeFevre's thoughtful seafood cooking with global accents. Blue and Dungeness crab cake is almost as big as a baseball: Inside, pure lump crabmeat is dressed up with yogurt sauce and harissa. Bigeye tuna tartare comes with green papaya and a thrilling Thai heat.

Surf and turf is Santa Barbara spot prawn with lacquered pork cheek, while Maine diver scallops are paired with braised pork jowl embellished with cinnamon oil. Wild, but it works. Plus, the wine list is filled with labels that complement the seafood, and the service from white-jacketed waiters is among the best in town.

[JDRCRASH]

CRA Looking at Land for Housing Project (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2009/04/30/news/doc49f9ed6f39617847855581.txt)

Agency Negotiating for 50,000-Square-Foot Industrial District Plot

by Richard Guzmán
City Editor
Published: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:25 AM PDT

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - The Community Redevelopment Agency is in the final stage of negotiating the purchase of an approximately 50,000-square-foot Industrial District parcel. The $1.8 million acquisition would be used to create a 155-unit affordable housing project.

The project, to rise on Washington Boulevard between Santee Street and Los Angeles Street, would be a mixed-use development with one- to three-bedroom units aimed at very low and low-income families and elderly residents, said Jenny Scanlin, a project manager with the CRA.

She said that due to the ongoing negotiations, she could offer no further details on the project, its timeline or ultimate cost.

According to CRA documents, the project would be developed by Mercy Housing California, a low-income, nonprofit housing provider founded in Nebraska. It specializes in providing affordable housing to families, seniors and people with special needs.

The 155 units, to rise on 1.59 acres, would be the first part of a multi-phased development proposed by Mercy Housing, which could ultimately stretch to Maple Street. The scope will depend on whether more land can be acquired, according to the CRA report.

The site was occupied by the newspaper La Opinion until May 2008, when it was vacated. It is currently empty.

Contact Richard Guzman at richard@downtownnews.com

[JDRCRASH]

April 28, 2009

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3640/3483342216_aa0a412c5f.jpg
From Flickr by Lisa Newton

[SD_Phil]

CRA Looking at Land for Housing Project (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2009/04/30/news/doc49f9ed6f39617847855581.txt)

Agency Negotiating for 50,000-Square-Foot Industrial District Plot

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - The Community Redevelopment Agency is in the final stage of negotiating the purchase of an approximately 50,000-square-foot Industrial District parcel. The $1.8 million acquisition would be used to create a 155-unit affordable housing project.



Good news! A lot of unused industrial parcels really could and should be put to better use.

[XLucky4LifeX]

Where will City House & Olympics going to be built?
Hopefully Century City because it doesn't match up with the modern skyline, DTLA.
They either need a new, modern design. Or don't put it up.
I don't want to see a city of the future becoming the city of the past.
I really love how every building is shiny in LA... while City House won't be.
Gee... know how NY's detail-ish buildings are so ugly from far away...
Hopefully it won't be LA. Cause LA MUSTTT be the future.

NY= Past
Chicago= Now
LA= Future

[WonderlandPark]

Don't worry, honey, City House will not be built. LA will be your city of the future.

[edluva]

Xlucky4life - yes we all love shiny buildlings since theyre so futuristic; none better than their shininess to herald LA as the city of our future. anyone else in LAforum care to chime in on this penetratingly noteworthy observation brought forth by lucky? btw, i think LA is our future because we have so many deep thinkers. this forum is a sampling of the collective intellectual and aesthetic sensibility so pervasive among residents throughout our fine metropolis, and it's exactly why we're positioned to lead the world :hmmm:

[Downtown Los Angeles]

Where will City House & Olympics going to be built?
Hopefully Century City because it doesn't match up with the modern skyline, DTLA.
They either need a new, modern design. Or don't put it up.
I don't want to see a city of the future becoming the city of the past.
I really love how every building is shiny in LA... while City House won't be.
Gee... know how NY's detail-ish buildings are so ugly from far away...
Hopefully it won't be LA. Cause LA MUSTTT be the future.

NY= Past
Chicago= Now
LA= Future

oh god, please dont bring up the city house, i dont ever want to see any thing like that put up as modern as we are today. i might have looked good here if it was buil in 1937, maybe

[Just-In-Cali]

Well ed, I knew you'd be waiting with baited breath for my responce...and I see I kept your mouth watering as usual.
Your nites must be very slow...dark..and lonely...my condolences.

XLucky4Life...be careful, you have insulted the religion of many a tragic skyscraper forum Nazi. You might get burned at the stake for even mentioning LA in the same breath as the holy lands of NY or Chi-Town.

As far as City House and Olympic...those were NEVER going to be built. Modern or otherwise. The look would be rather out of place in the region.

[XLucky4LifeX]

Why is Ritz Carlton so small?
This pic was taken during Spring Break.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x304/luckypet4747/3-29-093-1.jpg

[213]

^ Built @ lower elevation. DTLA slopes downward from Bunker Hill, but the photo's mid-ground structures obscure this.

;)

[ladowntowner]

^ Also, since it's a hotel and residential tower, the floor height is about 20% less than a commercial tower, translating into approximately 20% less height overall vs. an office tower having the same number of floors.

XLucky4LifeX, you wouldn't happen to be JDRCRASH's little brother, would ya?

[XLucky4LifeX]

^ Also, since it's a hotel and residential tower, the floor height is about 20% less than a commercial tower, translating into approximately 20% less height overall vs. an office tower having the same number of floors.

XLucky4LifeX, you wouldn't happen to be JDRCRASH's little brother, would ya?

Haha! Apparently, I don't have a brother.
What made you think he's my bro?
I don't know JDRCRASH btw.

[ThreeHundred]

Infants I swear. :babyeat:

Oh and look at this.

http://www.illumenight.com/

*Fap*

[Downtown Los Angeles]

:previous: WOW!! I can see this happening to all the buildings not long from now.

[Jonovision]

They do that on a building here in Halifax here in the summer.

[JDRCRASH]

XLucky4LifeX, you wouldn't happen to be JDRCRASH's little brother, would ya?

I only have a 16 year old sister and she just wants to go into photography.

[JDRCRASH]

Infants I swear. :babyeat:

Were you babysitting someone?

[Patrick]

Infants I swear. :babyeat:

Oh and look at this.

http://www.illumenight.com/

*Fap*

Oh god, thats LA for sure, I love it. Although, you can keep those advertisements off of the US Bank Tower, City Hall, and 777 Tower. :yuck:

[Just-In-Cali]

Am I not forward thinking if I say that I find the whole idea of turning the skyline into a giant billboard a bit tacky, even for the "Entertainment Capital of the World?" (I can hear our favorites in here commenting already)
That kinda nonsense seems to work in Tokyo and Las Vegas, but I dont see it for LA. A few structures like anything in LA Live to the concert hall I can understand, and even many buildings in Hollywood, but not downtown and along Wilshire.

(Also, very selective post deletion took place in here)

[JDRCRASH]

Am I not forward thinking if I say that I find the whole idea of turning the skyline into a giant billboard a bit tacky, even for the "Entertainment Capital of the World?" (I can hear our favorites in here commenting already)
That kinda nonsense seems to work in Tokyo and Las Vegas, but I dont see it for LA. A few structures like anything in LA Live to the concert hall I can understand, and even many buildings in Hollywood, but not downtown and along Wilshire.


That kinda confused me. Anyway, I personally feel that areas like South Park and Hollywood are entertainment areas could find billboards useful.

[Patrick]

Am I not forward thinking if I say that I find the whole idea of turning the skyline into a giant billboard a bit tacky, even for the "Entertainment Capital of the World?" (I can hear our favorites in here commenting already)
That kinda nonsense seems to work in Tokyo and Las Vegas, but I dont see it for LA. A few structures like anything in LA Live to the concert hall I can understand, and even many buildings in Hollywood, but not downtown and along Wilshire.

(Also, very selective post deletion took place in here)

Aah I kind of agree, while the idea is neat, it is kinda silly, especially for the buildings on Wilshire or Century City. Now I'm very mixed about this, maybe they should just keep it limited to the buildings around South Park.

[edluva]

That kinda nonsense seems to work in Tokyo and Las Vegas, but I dont see it for LA.

how exactly is tokyo's skyline a "giant billboard"? and have you been to tokyo? curious minds want to know