[citywatch]

Here's that webcam that Rich Alossi provided a while back.Thanks for posting that. Someone mentioned the LA live web cam awhile back & I couldn't figure out what they were talking about, or where the link to its page was.

Here's a current shot as of tonight:

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/Viewpark/untitled-2.jpg

I notice the small old apt bldg that used to sit north of the hotel finally has been completely demolished, & someone at SSC mentioned the tire store across from the movie theaters no longer is in business. I'll have to check the web cam during the daytime to see if that appears to be correct.

[XLucky4LifeX]

The reason why smog is good for LA is that because at night, it makes the light more gloomy and smoother.
But I can't even see a mile far in LA. I went to Monterey Park this morning. I was freaked out! Cause I can see LA skyline everytime I go there, but this time I can't.
Maybe cause it's summertime. It's smoggy during the summer

[citywatch]

^ I'm surprised you say that, xlucky, cuz it was cool & overcast most of the day. So the stuff that was blocking your view of DT actually was fog, but suspended at a higher elevation.

It may have been gloomy to some ppl, but to me it was comfortable weather, less of an issue of getting heat stroke on a day like today.

Gunky brown air is a problem mostly on days when it's warm & very sunny.

[XLucky4LifeX]

^ I'm surprised you say that, xlucky, cuz it was cool & overcast most of the day. So the stuff that was blocking your view of DT actually was fog, but suspended at a higher elevation.

It may have been gloomy to some ppl, but to me it was comfortable weather, less of an issue of getting heat stroke on a day like today.

Gunky brown air is a problem mostly on days when it's warm & very sunny.

No wonder!
While on our way back home, heading towards south, there were less fog/cloud or w/e I was thinking. I did see smog tho, on the non-foggy/cloudy side. It was pink! It was good weather today too :D

[SD_Phil]

Neither. This part of the gold line is an extension from the current western end going south and then east from Union Station. The part that you're referring to is an extension from the current eastern end to head farther east.

Ah. Thanks for the correction. :tup:

[dachacon]

ok, the fact that both ends of the gold line head the same direction never made sense to me, and i also never really understood why the blue line doesn't connect to union station. is there a reason for this unusual line configuration? perhaps this belongs in a different topic?

the current gold line was supposed to be an extension of the blue line. the line was envisioned to travel from long beach to pasadena through union station, but what killed it? i dont remember. i think it had to do with the law that banned fed and local money to be used for subway tunneling after the wilshire explosion at ross.

[JDRCRASH]

^ We have got to overturn that.

[DJM19]

I think it already has been?

[colemonkee]

That was overturned last year, driven primarily by Rep. Henry Waxman, who initiated the ban in the first place. Nothing like a little bit of irony in politics, eh?

[Westsidelife]

LAPD Headquarters

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2449/3586266093_6f61d7d750_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3586242729_e72af20a5a_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2231/3587045438_484c37e5e4_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/3586238035_1ed8fc66e5_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/3586251409_d4a500585b_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3586248759_b7e554b676_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3595/3586247003_19e4bdeb40_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3417/3587054730_79c9295845_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3605/3586244045_e003021223_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

[JDRCRASH]

That was overturned last year, driven primarily by Rep. Henry Waxman, who initiated the ban in the first place. Nothing like a little bit of irony in politics, eh?

Now that, is irony.... he must have hit his head against the wall a million times after he saw gas prices skyrocket to nearly $5 per gallon.:haha:

[XLucky4LifeX]

I actually have a plan for LA.
Instead of having so many parking lots, and building so many new parking garages, why not propose a 50 story parking garage?
If there isn't enough, lets build a taller one >.<
Design: Build it with concrete or w/e inside, with a steel exterior. Make it very shiny blue, red, w/e color glass to make it look like an "actual" skyscraper.
It could truly represent LA :D
Come on, we NEED something!!!!

[dachacon]

That was overturned last year, driven primarily by Rep. Henry Waxman, who initiated the ban in the first place. Nothing like a little bit of irony in politics, eh?

i ment to bring zev's law into place i think it was prop A

[Kingofthehill]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3366/3588573488_b6fed9ab27_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/3587366815_26cf6c4fc4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3587504783_bea3f2c5fd_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3587363017_16bfe0d3ee_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3587383707_f90281e5e5_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3587389775_d48e31ff68_b.jpg

[colemonkee]

Great shots as always, King.

[JDRCRASH]

Yeah, you really take good shots!:tup:

[Westsidelife]

Ritz-Carlton Hotel & Residences/JW Marriott

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3640/3590872834_6cd75fb2c6_b.jpg
From Flickr, by lacurbed

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3590006537_9e942e8252_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

[XLucky4LifeX]

^^^^^^^^^^
Omigawd...
The lion thing looks awesome :P

[WonderlandPark]

Not much reason for a crane at this point. It must be coming down soon.

[colemonkee]

They have to hang the Ritz-Carlton sign on the other side of the tower. They used the crane to hang the first sign. I would assume once that's done the crane could come down.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Vewy vewy nice! :)

[Just-In-Cali]

Awesomeness. Need to get a couple of full structure shots and shots of it with the skyline now (hint hint) :rolleyes: LOL
I may be down there on Saturday to do it.

[Westsidelife]

Ritz-Carlton Hotel & Residences/JW Marriott

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3594821884_d4b6d43659_b.jpg
From Flickr, by ericrichardson

[edluva]

not a huge fan of the multicolored glass facade by day. looks messy and distracts from the building's otherwise modern lines. it's also, in the tradition of many other facades in this city, more visual gimmick (see gehry and mayne) than architectural substance. but lighting it up at night produces the effect of lightening the facade and emphasizing the sleek linearity of the building (and distracting from that annoying helipad). i've been pretty ambivalent about l.a. live but this building at least is a welcome addition to downtown in many different ways

[JDRCRASH]

i've been pretty ambivalent about l.a. live but this building at least is a welcome addition to downtown in many different ways

Like extending the skyline Southwest.

[dktshb]

I like the Ritz and consider it the best looking part of all LA Live IMO. I only wish it was more connected to the rest of downtown... how I wish those parking lots around the whole complex would be filled in.

Here is a not so good picture I took from Hollywood with the telephoto about a month ago making the hotel look more a part of Wilshire than Downtown:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/dktshb/114-2.jpg

[ThreeHundred]

Lakers in 6.

Oh and the Ritz sign looks nice. I just wish that the helipad was much more covered by the glass crown. Think of that building in Atlanta that looks like the Ritz...can't remember the name.

Found it.

1180 Peachtree
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2362/2129645943_3ebb377b7d.jpg?v=0

It would also be nice if the Ritz's crown was lit the same way.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2861708554_580cb8f4ca.jpg?v=0

[leftopolis]

Oh and the Ritz sign looks nice. I just wish that the helipad was much more covered by the glass crown. Think of that building in Atlanta that looks like the Ritz...can't remember the name. Found it.
1180 Peachtree...It would also be nice if the Ritz's crown was lit the same way.


I disagree on the hilipad, in the sense that it works for me either way--whether it's cleverly concealed as in your example, or out in the open and easily visible. I'd hate to be the pilot who has to maneuver on to that Atlanta building--there just seems to be less room for error. On the other hand, maybe there's less wind for passengers to deal with during the time they're up on the roof.

It's hard not to think of Sao Paulo, Brazil...when discussing helipads. If memory serves me, I believe there are 800+ licensed helicopter-taxi-pilots. It's something that could work for Los Angeles: with it's notorious traffic problems and ever-increasing density, even with the various public transit options currently in the works, and there's a sizable wealthy class. LA could end up being the US city known for it's helipads--and then it wouldn't really matter how visibly or discretly they are presented as part of the building. Sure, you'd have to add at least another several thousand 25-35 story buildings, before there could be anything approaching a fair comparison...

Found the article I was thinking of:
From The Guardian - UK (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/20/brazil)

Minimum number of helicopter flights within central Sao Paulo each year...70,000

820 Helicopter pilots work in Sao Paulo; each can earn $100,000 a year

420 Helipads in Sao Paulo

[colemonkee]

^ 1180 Peachtree does not have a helipad, so landing safety is a moot issue there. ThreeHundred's comment was about the design of 1180 Peachree working because it does not have a helipad, and the desire to have the helipad of the Ritz more concealed by the glass fins on the east and west sides. Raising the glass fins by 15 feet or so would not make the landing space any more dangerous or difficult than it is now, but it would visually conceal the helipad in most views of the crown.

A really good example of this is the Gas Company Tower. The glass walls of the crown extend slightly above the helipad, and are very close to edges of the helipad itself, resulting in both an operable helipad and a clean, flat line for the crown of the building.

[ladowntowner]

The helipad was never made very apparent, as far as I can recall, in the renders I've seen in the past. In fact, I believe the glass "fins" were actually rendered much taller than they eventually turned out to be. The rest of the building isn't bad, but it (the helipad) looks pretty dorky from a distance and makes me feel like a little bait and switch happened here...

[dktshb]

I disagree on the hilipad, in the sense that it works for me either way--whether it's cleverly concealed as in your example, or out in the open and easily visible. I'd hate to be the pilot who has to maneuver on to that Atlanta building--there just seems to be less room for error. On the other hand, maybe there's less wind for passengers to deal with during the time they're up on the roof.

It's hard not to think of Sao Paulo, Brazil...when discussing helipads. If memory serves me, I believe there are 800+ licensed helicopter-taxi-pilots. It's something that could work for Los Angeles: with it's notorious traffic problems and ever-increasing density, even with the various public transit options currently in the works, and there's a sizable wealthy class. LA could end up being the US city known for it's helipads--and then it wouldn't really matter how visibly or discretly they are presented as part of the building. Sure, you'd have to add at least another several thousand 25-35 story buildings, before there could be anything approaching a fair comparison...

Found the article I was thinking of:
From The Guardian - UK (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/20/brazil) Well I can see a lot of the clientele arriving by helicopter there, definitely.

[WonderlandPark]

Here is one of the renders I took a photo of on the outside of the marketing center for the tower a year or so ago in downtown L.A.

http://www.pixelmap.com/images/Nav/ritz_1.jpg

The fins never were intended to be anything like the Atlanta tower. But no helipad is visible in the shot.

[ladowntowner]

^ Yeah. Never envisioned them being anywhere near the Atlanta tower's height (which are pretty excessive if you ask me), but somehow I got the idea that they'd be about 2-3 floors in height on one side and about one floor or so on the other. You know, something that'd mostly obscure a helipad. Maybe it was just a combination of a trick of the render angles and my imagination/wishful thinking. Sigh.

Is that an advert for the movie E.T. on the theater structure in the render above? WTF?

[yeah215]

^^ looking at the rendering carefully, you can see where the helipad is going to be.

I was hoping (and thought) that the fins would raise to the level of the landing surface of the helipad. Almost like the crown the US Bank building. That way, you couldn't see the helipad, but it also wasn't obstructed by architecture.

On a different note, there was talk a while back about a convention center expansion to reach across Chick Hern and over the West Parking structure at LA. Does anybody know the status of that? Are there any renderings of that? I know that the San Diego Convention Center is still on track for their expansion.

LA has the ability to be a major convention city. More downtown hotels rooms would be required (and the Ritz is the critical step in that), a convention center expansion is required (some of the other major convention centers are still much larger than LA), and a high speed train link from LAX to downtown (along with an upgrade of the airport which, after 20 years, will hopefully get underway).

I would like to see the some the infrastructure projects happen now. This is a time when the construction prices are low and people need jobs. By the time they are built and open, the economy should be on the rebound, and then LA can take advantage of having some of the newest facilities.

[XLucky4LifeX]

We shouldn't complain about the helipad.
Were lucky to have Ritz now :)
Which is better than nothing
And look at all those other proposed/approved buildings in LA...
a lot of them didn't make it.

[colemonkee]

From the Downtown News (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2009/06/05/news/doc4a29af600a076735217789.txt):

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1148/9thandolivesmall.jpg
Image courtesy of RSA Architects (http://www.rsala.com/)

Condo Tower Proposed for Jewelry District
A 283-Unit Development Begins the City Approvals Process
by Anna Scott
Published: Friday, June 5, 2009 5:14 PM PDT

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - Despite the recession and an unsettled residential market, a local developer is moving forward on plans for a 31-story condominium tower in the Jewelry District.

The mixed-use project from Laeroc 2002 Coast Parking, LLC would rise on two adjacent surface parking lots between Hill and Olive streets at Ninth Street. The project had a hearing before city planning officials on May 20, and is expected to be fully entitled within two weeks, said land use consultant Greg Jackson of Rosenheim & Associates.

The project would stand a block west of the Kor Group’s Eastern Columbia Building at 849 S. Broadway. It would house 283 condominiums and 11,180 square feet of ground-floor retail space.

There would also be 663 parking spaces housed on two underground levels and four above ground, as well as in a separate five-level structure. The parking, said Jackson, is expected to serve the condominiums and future inhabitants of an adjacent office building at Ninth and Hill streets under the same ownership, which has been approved as an adaptive reuse project. Some parking might also be open to the public, said Jackson.

The Hermosa Beach-based real estate investment firm LaeRoc Funds, headed by longtime Downtown real estate player Kim Benjamin, purchased the development site in pieces between 2003 and 2007.

Mark Rothenberg of Downtown-based Rothenberg Sawasy Architects - the firm behind the Arts District’s Molino Street Lofts, among other local projects - has completed preliminary designs for the effort.

Like most other large-scale developments in the pipeline nationwide, the LaeRoc tower faces major challenges. One of the biggest potential hurdles is the largely frozen credit market.

Depending on how quickly the project moves forward, the developer may have to provide a large portion of the project’s construction budget up front, said Stanley Ross, chair of USC’s Lusk Center for Real Estate. “They’re not going to get traditional financing,” he said.

Furthermore, Stanley added, even after the economy improves the condo market could take longer to catch up. “For condos, we still have a longer-term excess supply that would carry over, so I’d be a little nervous,” he said. “I’d wait out another year or two even just to get a sense of how the market absorbs the condos that are out there. I wouldn’t even start talking about it before a year.”

Benjamin, who also heads the area’s Historic Cultural Neighborhood Council, said his firm is taking a cautious approach. He declined to provide a timeline or budget for the project, and said, “Our job one is to get this entitled and approved, and then see what the circumstances and economy allow.”

He is not the only one looking to the future. Although several major projects in Downtown are stalled, developer Thomas Properties Group recently announced plans for a $1 billion hotel, office and residential complex to replace the Wilshire Grand hotel at 930 Wilshire Blvd. Thomas has said he does not anticipate breaking ground until 2011, but has started the process now so the project can have all its city approvals secured by the time the economy recovers.

Parking Questions

Stakeholders say the proposed LaeRoc project could be a positive addition to Downtown.

“Over the last decade or so, it’s been underutilized,” Ninth District Councilwoman Jan Perry said of the proposed site. “Assuming he has done his market studies… it might be a great opportunity. Unlike some older buildings, it will have parking on-site, so it’s an interesting reuse.”

Downtown Los Angeles Neighborhood Council President Russell Brown said that DLANC supports the project, though some members have raised questions over whether the parking structure will complement the streetscape.

“There was concern about the parking podium,” said Brown. “We asked them to work with the city on the Urban Design Guidelines to make sure that the sidewalk is activated.”

The Downtown Design Guide and Urban Design Standards Guidelines, adopted by the City Council in April, aim to bring pedestrian-friendly elements to the Central City, such as wider sidewalks, landscaped medians and additional streetlights, trees and street parking.

Benjamin said he is unsure of whether Rothenberg is working with the Planning Department’s Urban Design Studio, which spearheaded the guidelines. Yet an early rendering of the project reveals landscaping, trees and glass-fronted retail at the ground level.

The project, though in the early stage, has caught the attention of area stakeholders in part because it would occupy a key location, Brown said. Community members are lobbying to turn a parcel behind the Eastern Columbia Building into a small park, and the LaeRoc tower would likely stand near a streetcar line in the works for Broadway, which is still years from completion but has recently gained momentum.

“We want to make sure it’s integrated,” Brown said.

Contact Anna Scott at anna@downtownnews.com.

[makoy731]

Decided to take a walk around the Old Bank District, Little Tokyo and Arts District and take some pictures. This is my 1st time doing this so I apologize for the picture quality.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00021.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00022.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00023.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00024.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00025.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00026.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00027.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00029.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00030.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00031.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00032.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00033.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00034.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00035.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00036.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00038.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00039.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00040.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00041.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00042.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00043.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00044.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00045.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00046.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00049.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00050.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00051.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00052.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00053.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00054.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00055.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00056.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00057.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00058.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00063.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00065.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00066.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00067.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00068.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00069.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00071.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00072.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00074.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00075.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00078.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00079.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00080.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00081.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00082.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00083.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00085.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00087.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00088.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00089.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00092.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00093.jpg

[citywatch]

This is my 1st time doing this so I apologize for the picture quality.Thanks for taking those pics! And nothing to apologize for. Your photos are some of the best I've ever seen in this thread, giving views of parts of DT I've never noticed in a pic before.

What did they do to the top of the former new otani Hotel?!! That big black border at the top doesn't look too good:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00050.jpg[/QUOTE]

One reason thru the yrs I've often thought of LA as not being as crowded or full of ppl as NIMBYs or others make it out to be is cuz hoods like DT can be so quiet during the day. I notice most of the sidewalks in your photos look strangely empty. I'm guessing you took the pics on the weekend, which doesn't help. But I've been in the hood even during the weekday & noticed how quiet it can be, with not as many ppl out & about as one would associate with almost any major city in the world.

By contrast, I'll drive onto various fwys all around DT & be stuck in the middle of thousands of cars, even traffic jams. To me that's an indication LA isn't set up right.

too many ppl there----way out in the burbs, for instance----not enough here. Too few ppl living in one place, too many ppl living somewhere else. Too many ppl working too far from home, too few ppl living close to work.

[citywatch]

Condo Tower Proposed for Jewelry District A 283-Unit Development Begins the City Approvals Process
It would be great to fill in the gap where that bldg would go. But I have mixed feelings about such new proposals, not only cuz of the current state of the economy, but cuz of all the other existing projs that have been publicized over the past several yrs & that have yet to breakground today. So it's almost mean for devlprs to get everyone's interests & hopes up today, only to never follow through on their projs. It's like they're teasing everyone by mentioning to the public about their proposed devlpt and then delaying any actual work on it for several yrs. Or worse, eventually bailing out on it.

Then there are other projs like the one involving the Wilshire grand hotel, which I also have mixed feelings about. That's cuz it will replace an existing bldg that, while not great, isn't so bad it needs to be replaced ASAP. Compare that with a site just one block to the south & east of the hotel, where a big gap of a former demolished bldg & some deadzone parking lots have been sitting for yrs & yrs.

Dressing It Up Before Tearing It Down

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/06/07/business/07sqft-600.jpg
James A. Thomas is overseeing the redevelopment of the Wilshire Grand in downtown Los Angeles.
J. Emilio Flores for The New York Times

By FRED A. BERNSTEIN
Published: June 6, 2009

ACROSS the country, hotel projects have stalled because of a lack of funding. But the owner of one Los Angeles hotel is not only spending millions on improvements — it is also getting ready to replace the hotel with a new one.

The Wilshire Grand is in the midst of a $20 million makeover that involves upgrades to all 900 guest rooms. But while the renovation will help keep the building fresh, it still won’t provide the spaciousness and sheen that some travelers expect.

“There is just so much you can do with a 50-year-old structure,” said Penny Pfaelzer, a spokeswoman for Korean Air, the hotel’s owner. Even with upgrades, she said, the rooms are “dated.” So Korean Air hopes to tear down the hotel a year or two after the renovation is finished. Then, a pair of high-rise buildings — one containing offices, the other a new hotel with 700 rooms — will be constructed in its place.

James A. Thomas, whose company, the Thomas Properties Group, was hired by Korean Air to oversee the redevelopment, said “the decision has been made to scrape the site.” His client, he said, “decided that it doesn’t make sense to keep putting money into the property if they’re not able to come up with the kind of quality hotel they want.”

The rebuilding project is expected to cost around $1 billion, according to Mr. Thomas, and it will proceed despite the tight credit market. Korean Air “has the wherewithal to build the hotel off its balance sheet,” he said. The airline, a part of the Hanjin Group, a conglomerate based in South Korea, had more than $8 billion in revenue in 2008, according to Ms. Pfaelzer.

Korean Air has strong ties to Los Angeles, which has the largest Korean population of any city outside Korea, according to Eui-Young Yu, the founder and director of the Center for Korean American and Korean Studies at California State University, Los Angeles. That generates a lot of trans-Pacific traffic. The company’s chairman, Y. H. Cho, is a graduate of the University of Southern California, as are his three children, Ms. Pfaelzer said. One of them, Heather Cho, runs the company’s hotel division.

Korean Air bought the Wilshire Grand about 20 years ago — when it was known as the Hilton Hotel and Towers — and has watched as downtown Los Angeles burgeoned around it. The Walt Disney Concert Hall, which opened in 2003, and the Staples Center arena, which opened in ’99, are both in easy walking distance of the hotel. L.A. Live, a vast entertainment complex, is under construction next to the Staples Center.

The Wilshire Grand advertises itself as having the best location of any hotel in the city. But if that’s true, the hotel hasn’t lived up to its potential. On a recent night, rooms were available as little as $79. Even so, occupancy has been around 50 or 60 percent, according to Marc Loge, the hotel’s director of public relations.

And the Wilshire Grand is about to face new competition. L.A. Live, which is expected to open next year, will contain two separate hotels — a Ritz-Carlton, with 123 rooms, and a J. W. Marriott, with more than 800 rooms — in a single, 54-story tower designed by Gensler, the international architecture firm. The hotels will operate as distinct entities despite sharing a building. The new neighbors “are raising the bar” for the Wilshire Grand, Ms. Pfaelzer said. But they may also bring it new business.

According to Carol Martinez, an executive of LA Inc., the city’s convention and visitors bureau, some of the largest conventions “didn’t want to come to Los Angeles because we didn’t have enough hotel rooms to accommodate them.” The addition of nearly 1,000 rooms at L.A. Live will change that, she said. A result could be more convention business for the Wilshire Grand.

But the existing Wilshire Grand would have a hard time satisfying some conventiongoers, Ms. Pfaelzer said. Among other things, she said, its cramped public spaces are incompatible with “the pedestrian and cafe lifestyle Southern Californians enjoy.”

It may take up to two years to win approval for the project from government agencies, according to Mr. Thomas, and for that reason, the company decided not to halt the renovations that were under way. But it did decide to speed things up. Instead of renovating floor by floor, as originally planned, it is tackling three floors at a time, Mr. Loge said. That will allow the hotel to complete the renovation this fall, about a year ahead of schedule.

Low occupancy during the economic downturn has made it easier to renovate large swaths of the building at once, Mr. Loge added.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/06/07/business/07sqft2-650.jpg
The executive boardroom has been part of the renovation project, even as plans are under way to tear down the hotel.

Once it was decided that the hotel would be demolished, some items were dropped from the original renovation plan. The rooms will receive new carpet, window treatments, wallpaper, flat-panel televisions, mattresses and upholstery, Mr. Loge said. But, he said, “the bathrooms will no longer be completely refurbished and expanded.” He said that decision, along with other changes, reduced the cost of the renovation to about $20 million from about $60 million.

Meanwhile, Mr. Thomas, the real estate developer, is focused on maximizing the use of the Wilshire Grand site — nearly three acres at the corner of Wilshire Boulevard and Figueroa Street, on the southwestern corner of downtown Los Angeles. The site is particularly valuable to Korean Air, he said, because “the name Wilshire Boulevard is recognized around the world.” As a result, he said, the airline “is very anxious to have the hotel front on Wilshire, because they anticipate an international business.”

The new hotel is as yet unnamed; the company is talking to all the major brands — known as “flags” — before deciding which of them will operate it, Mr. Thomas said.

In the meantime, executives of the Wilshire Grand are focused on running their hotel. “When employees know that a hotel is going to eventually close, that can be an issue,” Ms. Pfaelzer said, noting that some employees may seek other employment, while morale among those who remain could suffer. She said the company has offered Wilshire Grand employees “preferential hiring when the new hotel becomes operational.”

“And we’re hopeful that many will return,” she added. But that will take time.

“Before we could have the hotel up and running, we’re talking about four to five years,” said Mr. Thomas, who was figuring on at least two years for various approvals from the city and at least two years for construction. “Hopefully by then,” he said, “the economy will have turned around.”

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/06/07/business/07sqft3-500.jpg
Two high-rise buildings will eventually replace the
Wilshire Grand. Rendering from A.C. Martin
Partners

[XLucky4LifeX]

Reply to post 7138

true >.<
Those people are getting fat.
Just sit at their chairs, on the computer/tv.
Then sit at their seat, driving the car.
Then sit at the chair, eating lunch.
Then sit at their chair, working.
Then sit at the chair, eating dinner.
Then sit at their seat, driving back home.
Then sleep at their bed, and repeat.

Sigh.... LA people doesn't enjoy their city as much like NYers.
Even if we destroy ALL of our attractions and leave one out, nobody will still go there. You know why? CAUSE THEY JUST SIT THERE DOING NOTHING!
Well, true, cause it takes 30 minutes to go to Wal Mart or Mc Donalds by feets.

*You can correct me if you want cause I dun really know what I said is true. I got this idea by looking at how empty the popular places n stuff are, and how lazy my friends are cause they never go anywhere and like my family people tooo!!!!!*

You see how loud LA live is? Ya, one person in the street, your ear is exploding already.

I'll just make up a joke...
90% of the money LA has is from gas money.

[makoy731]

[/b]Thanks for taking those pics! And nothing to apologize for. Your photos are some of the best I've ever seen in this thread, giving views of parts of DT I've never noticed in a pic before.

What did they do to the top of the former new otani Hotel?!! That big black border at the top doesn't look too good:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00050.jpg

One reason thru the yrs I've often thought of LA as not being as crowded or full of ppl as NIMBYs or others make it out to be is cuz hoods like DT can be so quiet during the day. I notice most of the sidewalks in your photos look strangely empty. I'm guessing you took the pics on the weekend, which doesn't help. But I've been in the hood even during the weekday & noticed how quiet it can be, with not as many ppl out & about as one would associate with almost any major city in the world.

By contrast, I'll drive onto various fwys all around DT & be stuck in the middle of thousands of cars, even traffic jams. To me that's an indication LA isn't set up right.

too many ppl there----way out in the burbs, for instance----not enough here. Too few ppl living in one place, too many ppl living somewhere else. Too many ppl working too far from home, too few ppl living close to work.[/QUOTE]

[makoy731]

One reason thru the yrs I've often thought of LA as not being as crowded or full of ppl as NIMBYs or others make it out to be is cuz hoods like DT can be so quiet during the day. I notice most of the sidewalks in your photos look strangely empty. I'm guessing you took the pics on the weekend, which doesn't help. But I've been in the hood even during the weekday & noticed how quiet it can be, with not as many ppl out & about as one would associate with almost any major city in the world.

By contrast, I'll drive onto various fwys all around DT & be stuck in the middle of thousands of cars, even traffic jams. To me that's an indication LA isn't set up right.

too many ppl there----way out in the burbs, for instance----not enough here. Too few ppl living in one place, too many ppl living somewhere else. Too many ppl working too far from home, too few ppl living close to work.[/QUOTE]

I did take these pictures yesterday (saturday) and most of the street were pretty empty but I did walk through the Toy District and part of Broadway and those streets were pretty crowded. Little Tokyo was very active too. I also noticed a number of tourists around the neighborhood.

I also agree that LA is way too spread out with no real center... but I do my best in encouraging my friends to spend more time in Downtown and get there via public transit. The friend I had lunch with in Little Tokyo loved the Arts district and Downtown in general so I may have converted one person in spending more time there. We're planning another Downtown weekend. If we all try to get our friends from the burbs to spend time in Downtown, it could actually make a difference... or maybe I'm just too idealistic or naive.

[RAlossi]

The Kyoto Grand has been painted - the top of the tower is painted black and features a new logo, and the Los Angeles Street facade/motor court has been painted black as well.

I think it looks nice (at least the ground floor), though time will tell how much that black paint will fade in the sun...

And that article brings up the whole Wilshire Grand debate. I do support Korean Air building a new hotel, but I'm still unsure about supporting a tear-down.

The last thing I want is another Wilshire/Vermont, where the company tears down a building then loses financing.... leaving an empty lot. As a matter of fact, the Wilshire/Vermont parcel (For some reason I think the South Group/Williams & Dame owns it, but I may be mistaken) would make a great urban park, despite its proximity to LaFayette Park. KTown has so little park space.

[Westsidelife]

LAPD Headquarters

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3608803528_6f65a8a87d_b.jpg
From Flickr, by lacurbed

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3334/3608805356_9e6100bc32_b.jpg
From Flickr, by lacurbed

[Mike K.]

Just a quick plug for the upcoming meet in LA on June 24th. We're probably going to head to a bar so unfortunately this is limited to those 21 years and older.

Facebook event page here (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=83325372083&ref=mf). SSP Skybar event discussion here (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=169759).

[citywatch]

We're planning another Downtown weekend. If we all try to get our friends from the burbs to spend time in Downtown, it could actually make a difference... or maybe I'm just too idealistic or naive.I don't know how old you are, but if you were fully aware of the condition of DT 10 or more yrs ago----even as recently as 5 yrs ago----you'd have every reason to be more optimistic today than in the past.

For instance, the pic posted by westsidelife, if it were taken at the exact same spot several yrs ago, would have shown a really depressed hood, full of gaps & deadzones. Now its been cleaned up with the caltrans bldg, the new LAPD bldg, the rising medallion proj off in the distance. Even the motor pool bldg for the LAPD, going up right next door to St Vibiana's, as far as I'm concerned, is better than the big parking lot that once dominated that block.

I remember a time when the Higgins bldg, across the street from the new LAPD bldg, was abandoned & covered with layers of dirt. It looked like a haunted house bldg, left as a trash pile for over 20 yrs. It symbolized what the hood had become: sort of CA's answer to detroit, flint & cleveland, except w/palm trees & more sun.

I'd say the hood is in better shape today than it was definitely 10 yrs ago. Certainly 25 yrs ago. In some ways it's better today than it was over 50 yrs ago, before so many ppl started running to the burbs.

[citywatch]

and the Los Angeles Street facade/motor court has been painted black as well. I think it looks nice (at least the ground floor), though time will tell how much that black paint will fade in the sun...Since I haven't been directly around the hotel & seen it since it was painted, I'll take your word for it. But I still can't imagine how a mix of walls painted black in one area & the original lighter color elsewhere can look good. I don't know if the new owner thinks the black color will make ppl think of japanese lacquer boxes.


Just a quick plug for the upcoming meet in LA on June 24th.
I notice SSP has merged the LA forum with other forums of west coast cities. I'm guessing that was cuz of a lack of enough interest & activity.

If so, & noticing alot of regulars from the past no longer posting here or showing as much interest in this subj as before----& not many ppl responding to posts about meetings in LA----& aware that the economic slump has put a damper on things, I don't know if you'll get as much of a turnout as before.

[JDRCRASH]

[/b]I don't know how old you are, but if you were fully aware of the condition of DT 10 or more yrs ago----even as recently as 5 yrs ago----you'd have every reason to be more optimistic today than in the past.

Shocker, seeing as how as of late, your confidence has succumbed to the economic shithole.

[Kingofthehill]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3621/3609036248_b4f92fa398_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/3599360556_6d60bee616_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3597517572_cbb08e9e3f_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3337/3597527086_480605e654_b.jpg

[latennisguy]

^^ interesting projects.

[ethereal_reality]

^^^Kingofthehill...that first photo is killer. What is that building?


Also...here's a pic I have of downtown from 1965.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4765/la0604downtowndateunkno.jpg
USC Digital archive: downtown L.A. 1965 (corrected)

I love L.A.

[sopas ej]

^^^Kingofthehill...that first photo is killer. What is that building?


Also...here's a pic I have of downtown from 1955.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4765/la0604downtowndateunkno.jpg
unknown: downtown L.A. 1955

It's interesting to compare contemporary photos and those from the past.

Actually I believe that pic is from at least the mid-1960s, being that the Santa Monica Freeway, AT&T Bldg. (back then it was Transamerica), the DWP Bldg. and the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion are visible.

[RuFFy]

The only thing that picture proves is that a lot of building were demolished to create parking lots.

[sopas ej]

The only thing that picture proves is that a lot of building were demolished to create parking lots.

To add to that, contrary to what a lot of people might believe, many old buildings in downtown LA were demolished well before WWII not only for parking lots but also to realign/widen streets to ease traffic, being that many Angelenos by the 1920s were already driving autos. A lot of 19th Century crooked and weird-angled streets in downtown LA were widened, straightened and outright obliterated during the 1920s and 1930s; Wilshire Blvd. used to end/begin west of MacArthur Park but was then extended eastward into downtown LA in the 1930s because of mounting traffic. In the process, blocks of buildings were torn down.

From the LAPL website, here are some shots of downtown LA in the 1930s and 1940s:

Downtown Los Angeles, 1937
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics38/00068981.jpg

1930s
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics18/00018956.jpg

1945
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics41/00070290.jpg

1946
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics41/00070236.jpg
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics41/00070282.jpg

Whole hills were also removed in downtown Los Angeles to create a more orderly street grid and also because of freeway construction.

I find these photos from the LAPL website fascinating:

Sunset and Broadway, 1929
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013680.jpg

Sunset and Broadway, 1951
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013681.jpg

Sunset and Broadway, 1971
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013677.jpg

I think that that same old semaphore traffic signal from 1929 was still in use in 1951. Also notice the change in streetlamp styles.

That old brick building on the corner still exists, with a Mexican restaurant in the corner space. And that stretch of Sunset Blvd. is now called Cesar Chavez Avenue.

[RuFFy]

Downtown Los Angeles, 1937
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics38/00068981.jpg

I hope I was able to quote the right pic. Anyhow, this is perhaps the only pic I've ever seen with the Atlantic Richfield building rather than the Arco Towers. Very nice.

[edluva]

sigh

[sopas ej]

Here's a picture from lapl.org of what is now the Civic Center area of downtown Los Angeles, circa 1924, before the current City Hall was built, and with the old Hall of Justice under construction.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics26/00047853.jpg

Notice the narrow, angled streets that date from the 19th Century. The current City Hall would be built in what is the right side of this photo, with Spring Street and other streets being being widened and straightened out. By this time, downtown Los Angeles was already clogged with cars and streetcars competing for room.

[citywatch]

Actually I believe that pic is from at least the mid-1960s, being that the Santa Monica Freeway, AT&T Bldg. (back then it was Transamerica), the DWP Bldg. and the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion are visible.Yes, ethereal_reality's estimated date of that pic got accidentally pushed back by about 10 yrs. The former transamerica bldg was completed sometime in the early 1960s & was the tallest bldg in DT upon its completion. It was the first structure in LA to exceed the height of city hall.

That pic & the others from sopas remind me why I believe the hood is better today than it was in the past. However, there is the downside of more crime today than in the past, at least before the 1960s. More tagging of walls today too. And way more severe problems with street ppl, including chronic druggies & alchys. OTOH, smog was way worse over 20 to 40 yrs ago.

If ppl have issues with the hood today, they probably would have been even more negative towards DT back in the 1970s, or 1940s or even earlier.

Other than something like the gold & black atlantic richfield bldg, those b/w photos illustrate that the bad ol days were generally pretty bad.

[XLucky4LifeX]

This is what I think the buildings in LA are representing

US Bank Tower is, as everyone knows, the lighthouse.
Gas Company, everyone knows too, the ship sailing towards it.
Those Wells Fargo Towers are like groups or sailers going towards it.
The California Plaza Towers are like the whirlpool or the waves...
The Bank Of America building is like a broken structure or ship?
The 611 Tower looks like another broken ship?
The Westinbonaventure Hotel is something like a starfish.
The AT&T tower or whatever that tall spire building is, it looks like a glowstick-_-"

For the WEST side of the skyline, its like
Aon Center is a large black crystal.
The two Paul Hastings Tower are like the broken pieces of it.
The Figueroa At Wilshire building is like a giant emerald next to it.
The Bank Union Tower is like sand burying them.
The 777 Tower is like a giant creature or w/e its hard to think about this.
While next to it, 801 Tower, is like an emerald.
The TCW is like some mountain or something O.o
Notice how those buildings are brown underneath them, which represent the sand?
The Ritz is weird, but it looks like some weird fish.

Overall, Los Angeles skyline represents a rich ocean with many ships.

Other than that, it has a "gangster" style to it.
The blue neon lights made it happen, and the shapes made it more like it.
In other words, it's like "techno" style, or you can simply say, "cool"

[edluva]

:sly:

has anyone seen dumb and dumber?


well anyways, i'm sad that downtown lost all these architectural treasures. it's lost a lot of character since the prewar era.

[djerniepearl]

I hope I was able to quote the right pic. Anyhow, this is perhaps the only pic I've ever seen with the Atlantic Richfield building rather than the Arco Towers. Very nice.

Notice how dense Broadway was on the west side from 2nd to 3rd St. Imagine if those buildings were still there.:(

[JDRCRASH]

:sly:

has anyone seen dumb and dumber?

I actually think that comment describing downtown as an ocean was kinda funny. :haha:

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

:sly:

has anyone seen dumb and dumber?


well anyways, i'm sad that downtown lost all these architectural treasures. it's lost a lot of character since the prewar era.

LOL

ya it is sad that we lost all those gems. some of those buildings were awe inspiring even in poor quality black and white pictures, i cant imagine how awesome they were from street level! what stuck out to me was that the bad planning that we are dealing with now was in full effect back then as well. parking lots, low rises, etc. i guess some things never change.

[seamus]

To add to that, contrary to what a lot of people might believe, many old buildings in downtown LA were demolished well before WWII not only for parking lots but also to realign/widen streets to ease traffic, being that many Angelenos by the 1920s were already driving autos. A lot of 19th Century crooked and weird-angled streets in downtown LA were widened, straightened and outright obliterated during the 1920s and 1930s; Wilshire Blvd. used to end/begin west of MacArthur Park but was then extended eastward into downtown LA in the 1930s because of mounting traffic. In the process, blocks of buildings were torn down.


As you say, L.A. was definitely a trendsetter for the auto-centric city, and variations on those pictures were spread throughout the nation, a great book on the topic is 'Downtown: Its Rise and Fall'. Many of those losses are very tragic, though it always strikes me how shabby and haphazard the city looked already in the prewar period, when compared to the sepia-toned romanticism old photos often engender from other cities. It's as though the mediocrity of the civilization has remained constant even relative to its era.

[Just-In-Cali]

Those pictures are spectacular. The evolution, or depending on who youa re, the de-evolution of a city center. Los Angeles was shaped not only by the car, but by many people whom fled the east coast and its "cramped" living conditions. They changed policy for many years to prevent and even change the layout of the city to avoid a "Manhattan" style of living. Now its what everyone craves, so their ideas may have been unwise, but its done now, so lets not lament the "what ifs" for all time. Hopefully we can find our way to having a fully integrated metropolis.

On another note, this thread has reached a level of depressing that is stifling to say the least. Its turned into a pissing match of manic lovers against absolute haters debating each other's points of view and lopsided opinions as opposed to the city and architecture itself.
If people want to have a sunny outlook on the skyline as "an ocean" of sorts, let them. Please stop knocking ANYONE whom has a even slightly positive view of anything LA related.
And lets not write off the "haters" so easily, they do have points that need to be made, even if its rarely done with finesse.

[ethereal_reality]

I posted the downtown pic from 1965
(thanks for the date correction sopas_ej)

I started a thread under 'found photos' with the title 'noirish Los Angeles'.
Check it out, and post some photos if you like.

[XLucky4LifeX]

Reply to the people who hated my comment describing LA as an "ocean"
Lmao opinions are opinions, I used my imagination!
-O- I was just trying to say LA skyline could "BE" something.
What? So the next thing I should say NY skyline is poo while the Empire State Building is the King of all poop?
Not everyone here is like 40 years old >.<

[ThreeHundred]

^ Hilarious

[XLucky4LifeX]

NE1 noticed LA is turning SF?
It's summer and it's foggy like SF.

[Westsidelife]

^ It's called June Gloom.

[sopas ej]

LOL

ya it is sad that we lost all those gems. some of those buildings were awe inspiring even in poor quality black and white pictures, i cant imagine how awesome they were from street level! what stuck out to me was that the bad planning that we are dealing with now was in full effect back then as well. parking lots, low rises, etc. i guess some things never change.

Well, the low-rises were built on purpose. From 1911 to 1957, Los Angeles had a height limit of about 13 stories, except of course for City Hall and the Federal Courthouse built in 1940, which is 14 or 15 stories, and the LA County Hospital built in the 1930s, which I think is 16 stories. And contrary to what many people believe, I read a book that says that the height limit was instituted in the early 1900s not because of the fear of earthquakes, but because the city didn't want a high-rise area, they wanted a "garden city" with plenty of sunshine being able to reach the streets and sidewalks; so it was all about aesthetics. We must remember that San Francisco had many buildings that were in the 20-something story and 30s-something story range even in the 1920s, so building technology was such that at least buildings that tall could withstand earthquakes.

[JDRCRASH]

Reply to the people who hated my comment describing LA as an "ocean"

I didn't hate it; I thought is was pretty amusing, especially when some of it is kinda true.

Not everyone here is like 40 years old >.<

No, but mostly everyone here (besides you and I) is in they're twenties and thirties.

[XLucky4LifeX]

One thing I hope or think will happen is that LA will have the biggest building boom after the earthquake in 30 years.

Thanks JDRCRASH for the complement :D

I just found out that Figueroa-Wilshire represents a waterfall its so cool!
LA is awesome

[JDRCRASH]

LA is awesome

Some of it.

[ladowntowner]

By the sounds of a couple of the posts upthread, someone's been smoking some of that "good stuff" today. Better lay off of it, kid, don't you know it'll mess ya up?

Those were some great historical pics! It really is a shame that so many architecturally significant buildings met with the wrecking ball only to make way for surface parking lots (not exactly why they were torn down, but that was what they were replaced with). A true crime if you ask me.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Well, the low-rises were built on purpose. From 1911 to 1957, Los Angeles had a height limit of about 13 stories, except of course for City Hall and the Federal Courthouse built in 1940, which is 14 or 15 stories, and the LA County Hospital built in the 1930s, which I think is 16 stories. And contrary to what many people believe, I read a book that says that the height limit was instituted in the early 1900s not because of the fear of earthquakes, but because the city didn't want a high-rise area, they wanted a "garden city" with plenty of sunshine being able to reach the streets and sidewalks; so it was all about aesthetics. We must remember that San Francisco had many buildings that were in the 20-something story and 30s-something story range even in the 1920s, so building technology was such that at least buildings that tall could withstand earthquakes.

oh i dont mind the 13 story buildings, i was referring to the 1 story buildings that we had then.

[JDRCRASH]

By the sounds of a couple of the posts upthread, someone's been smoking some of that "good stuff" today. Better lay off of it, kid, don't you know it'll mess ya up?


Is it worse for 13 year olds than 19 year olds?:shrug:

[XLucky4LifeX]

Sucks LA lost those awesomeness historical buildings or w/e.
But whenever something is destroyed, something better happens.

Should I use the Twin Towers as an example? Thought it was reallllyyy sad that thousands of people died. Ionno but I heard that Twin Towers were used to be hated cause it was rectangle and it surpassed Empire State Building. Then it got destroyed, people started loving it cause they felt sad for it. It helped architectures and technology better, and inspired people to build more skyscrapers. Then they are now building a new WTC which will represent America and people won't hate anymore :D

I'm sure that something better will happen to those demolished buildings.

[sopas ej]

As you say, L.A. was definitely a trendsetter for the auto-centric city, and variations on those pictures were spread throughout the nation, a great book on the topic is 'Downtown: Its Rise and Fall'. Many of those losses are very tragic, though it always strikes me how shabby and haphazard the city looked already in the prewar period, when compared to the sepia-toned romanticism old photos often engender from other cities. It's as though the mediocrity of the civilization has remained constant even relative to its era.

I guess because even during the prewar period, LA's decentralization was already well under way, even though at the same time many people still went downtown to shop, see movies, conduct business, etc. I think maybe those downtown business owners didn't see the benefits of upkeep for their buildings back then, though now I would think that if they feel their area is losing business to newer parts of town, they would try to keep up and make their area look more sharp, but who knows what was going on back then. The same can be said for Pasadena; depending on old-timers you talk to, some people say that the area now known as Old Pasadena was already on the skids by the 1920s/1930s, with the new hub of commercial activity having moved east near the City Hall area, and then after WWII, it moved yet further east to South Lake Ave.

[StethJeff]

Sucks LA lost those awesomeness historical buildings or w/e.
But whenever something is destroyed, something better happens.

Should I use the Twin Towers as an example? Thought it was reallllyyy sad that thousands of people died. Ionno but I heard that Twin Towers were used to be hated cause it was rectangle and it surpassed Empire State Building. Then it got destroyed, people started loving it cause they felt sad for it. It helped architectures and technology better, and inspired people to build more skyscrapers. Then they are now building a new WTC which will represent America and people won't hate anymore :D

I'm sure that something better will happen to those demolished buildings.

:uhh:

[ThreeHundred]

Sucks LA lost those awesomeness historical buildings or w/e.
But whenever something is destroyed, something better happens.

Should I use the Twin Towers as an example? Thought it was reallllyyy sad that thousands of people died. Ionno but I heard that Twin Towers were used to be hated cause it was rectangle and it surpassed Empire State Building. Then it got destroyed, people started loving it cause they felt sad for it. It helped architectures and technology better, and inspired people to build more skyscrapers. Then they are now building a new WTC which will represent America and people won't hate anymore :D

I'm sure that something better will happen to those demolished buildings.

I can't believe that I'm responding to this but the Twins were hated right after they were completed. But over time they because not only the symbol for New York City but of America as a whole. They were a symbol of America's financial power.

And not everthing that gets destroyed is replaced by something better. For example, going back to those old pictures of Los Angeles, I bet you didn't know that LA destroyeda really awesome building to make way for 2 nice but unremarkable buildings.

The Richfield Building.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/682/noir0602richfieldwith14.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5953/la0429downtownfromsouth.jpg

Was destroyed to build the Arco Towers (or whatever they are called now).
http://www.you-are-here.com/los_angeles/city_national_bank.jpg

[RuFFy]

^^^ While I like City National Plaza, it's a real shame we had to lose the Richfield to get it. I've always admired that building for some reason, maybe because the roof isn't flat, I don't know. Either way, it's a shame, IMO.

[Kingofthehill]

XLucky4LifeX

Damn, has this thread dipped to a new low-point ?

[Westsidelife]

^ I think we've all moved on from JDRCRASH.

[JDRCRASH]

:haha:

Hey, it's better than having a certain forumer who hopes to move to NYC or Chicago and constantly puts our city down with his troll-like remarks. **cough** Ed--va **cough**

[JDRCRASH]

Ordinance brings new life into downtown L.A.'s Main Street (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-main-street11-2009jun11,0,4047200.story)

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47433446.jpg
Lawrence K. Ho / Los Angeles Times
Diners sit outdoors at Pete’s Cafe and Bar at 4th and Main. The San Fernando Building, which houses the restaurant, was developed into lofts by Tom Gilmore. Gilmore is credited with the reinvention of the historic core.
__________________________________________________________
The stretch between 4th and 6th was once the scene of homeless encampments.
Today, boutiques and cafes cater to new residents. The catalyst was the adaptive reuse ordinance, launched 10 years ago.

By Cara Mia DiMassa

9:54 PM PDT, June 10, 2009

A decade ago, the stretch of downtown L.A.'s Main Street between 4th and 6th streets was a desolate collection of empty buildings and homeless encampments, an area where drug dealing was conducted in the open, and the only longtime residents lived in residential hotels. These days, that stretch resembles a bustling small-town main street.

There's the neighborhood bookstore, where an attentive shopkeeper knows her customers by name. A DVD store that stocks the kind of films that appeal to the hip residents who live in the building upstairs. And shop owners and customers who live side by side above the stores.


http://www.latimes.com/media/mapimage/2009-06/47439294.gif


http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47433452.jpg
Lawrence K. Ho / Los Angeles Times
The adaptive reuse law made it easier to convert former bank, office and industrial buildings.

While much of downtown is struggling to attract the kind of ground-floor retail that many urbanists say is essential to turning a cluster of residential units into something more like a neighborhood, downtown's historic core has been seeing a surge forward lately.

Some downtown boosters who track such developments say that the vast majority of retail space along Main Street, from 4th to 7th Street, is now leased -- an accomplishment that they are touting as a sign of the neighborhood's successful reinvention.

The changes along Main Street -- and in downtown's historic core in general -- were launched 10 years ago this month, when a new city ordinance went into effect that made it easier to convert former bank, office and industrial buildings into residential and small retail spaces.


The ordinance was little noticed at the time. But the adaptive reuse ordinance, as it is known, has profoundly changed the way the city thinks about its long-neglected urban center. It streamlined the city's permitting process for those seeking to re-purpose the old buildings and allowed for flexibility in the city's zoning and code requirements.

"After decades of beating a dead horse, they realized that commercial was not going to come back to this neighborhood the way it was," said Bert Green, owner of an art gallery at 5th and Main. "It made sense to change the use of the buildings."

In 1999, downtown Los Angeles was an area very much in transition. The Staples Center had just opened. Walt Disney Concert Hall, L.A. Live and other downtown attractions were still years away from opening. Only 18,000 people lived in the city center.

"We had offices, we had some cultural attractions," said Carol Schatz, president and chief executive of the Central City Assn., a business advocacy group that pushed for the change. "But the one thing that we knew we needed to make downtown survive and thrive was residents."

While bigger, more extravagant projects for downtown were announced, and some even got underway, Historic Downtown kept plugging away.

"It may have been constructed," said developer Tom Gilmore, who many credit as the architect of the historic core's reinvention, "but it's not contrived."

Apartments and lofts in buildings were rented; some condos sold and retail spaces slowly began to fill along both Main and Spring streets. An art walk highlighted the assortment of galleries in the area. Restaurants began to draw people from beyond downtown.

"The community was organically grown by seeing what was needed and what could survive as destination retail," said Brady Westwater, a local activist and the former president of the Downtown L.A. Neighborhood Council, who has been instrumental in bringing businesses to the area.

Still, life in Historic Downtown is not for everyone. The area, just a few blocks away from Skid Row, continues to be a magnet for the homeless. It is still gritty and lacks the sort of luxurious high rises as other parts of the city center.

But even as other parts of downtown have seen some large-scale projects canceled and other condo developments switch to rentals as a way to ride out the economic storm, Historic Downtown has continued to collect new businesses: clothing stores, restaurants, bars and other amenities. Two new affordable housing projects are being developed.

Residents and shop owners in the area say that the relatively low cost of space in the area, combined with a certain amount of flexibility, has allowed them to take a chance in the area.

Jose Caballer, who lives in Gilmore's San Fernando building and runs a digital design firm out of an old bank building a few doors to the west, said that part of the appeal of the area is that it's like a sort of undiscovered country. "You can go and look at buildings and say, I want to do events here. If you are creative and resourceful enough . . . you can do it."

Brittany Hoa Pham, owner of Fremont clothing, said that her location along 4th Street has meant that, "We get an interesting group of people." But she admits that "once in a while, a homeless man or woman comes in and frightens me."

The challenge now for Historic Downtown, said Gilmore, is "how we end up a sustainable neighborhood, not a flash in the pan."

That's something that has been taking up a lot of Westwater's time recently.

After seeing success along Main and Spring streets, he has turned his attention to Broadway, where recent community efforts have focused on finding new uses for a collection of old movie houses and retail and office space along the street.

"We showed we could fix Main Street," he said. "Now, the challenge of developing a Broadway that works for everyone is the next step."

cara.dimassa@latimes.com

[LAsam]

^ I didn't realize Edluva was writing for the LA Times these days!

[makoy731]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/makoy731/downtown%20la%200609/DSC00067.jpg

does anyone know what will occupy this building in the Arts District?

[citywatch]

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5953/la0429downtownfromsouth.jpg
Interesting old pic! I can recognize about 4 bldgs in that pic, inc the Embassy auditorium bldg, the old Fed Reserve bldg (now converted into lofts), the Title guarantee bldg (now also a loft bldg), the bldg (don't know its name) directly next to the Skyline condo & Metropolitan apt bldg, & the old Barker bros bldg, now west of Macy's Plaza. And I think the Fig hotel, with its 3 wing design, can be seen way over to the left. The old Desmond's bldg can be seen right in front of the unnamed bldg that's next to the Metropolitan apt bldg.

That shot also is the reason that I think DT, in some important ways, is better today than it was even when the hood was more of the center of the city.

I have a hunch there may even be more ppl of some means living in the hood today than there were over 60 yrs ago, or certainly from the 1940s & onward, when ppl started running off to the burbs. And no wonder, since there weren't too many nice places even back then where ppl with some $$ could call home in DT.

I've read that Bunker hill, which originally was where some rich folk set up their homes, started to go to seed by the 1920s. Not too surprising, since that pic shows the hood in general wasn't scenic or rich enough to make successful ppl treat it the way they'd treat those cities that never went into a big decline to begin with.

[RAlossi]

does anyone know what will occupy this building in the Arts District?

Hewitt First, formerly condos and will now be apartments (via Curbed - website not updated yet).

http://hewittfirst.com/

[edluva]

pure comedy. only in an la forum

i'd take the richfield over city national any day of the week. screw the skyline. we have no hope in building a venerable one to begin with so who cares. such concentrated class a office space has never been justified in our city's existence. our cbd (like la itself) is an existential crisis of urban form - unlike with other cities, it has no reason to exist save for CRA's declaration in 1955 that LA shall have a traditional cbd whether it needs one or not. and so LA built its cbd like a kid builds a playhouse - as ornamentation stemming from some juvenile imagination or desire, in la's case, to see la as a real city (as opposed to actually bearing it out of necessity). basically our cbd is the urban equivalent of childhood role play.

the young twentysomething who deliberately ventures into dtla or elsewhere without a car to be "urban hip" - he's playing dress up too. he's nothing like the neapolitan who is a casual and unwitting specimen of his urban environment. stage props can only make an actor appear so real, and so far, the idea of an urban la is a stage prop.

that's why i don't get into a fit over our cbd's fate. la's future has never been decided by it. it is going to be decided by wilshire subway, expo, 405 line, etc.

[makoy731]

the young twentysomething who deliberately ventures into dtla or elsewhere without a car to be "urban hip" - he's playing dress up too. he's nothing like the neapolitan who is a casual and unwitting specimen of his urban environment. stage props can only make an actor appear so real, and so far, the idea of an urban la is a stage prop.



I think people should be encourage to take metro into dtla or elsewhere when possible. Not to be "urban hip" but for 3 main reasons: 1st, the environment, 2nd to save money on gas, car maintenance, and parking fees and 3rd, to avoid the hassle of traffic. When I lived in the LB area and worked in the Valley, I took the metro for about 3 years... not to be "urban hip" but because I didn't want to deal with the traffic and the fact that I saved money doing it. Now that I live a mile away from work, I don't need to take public transit. I still take it when possible such us having lunch with family or friends. I've ALWAYS taken the red line when I'm having dinner with family in China Town which is a pretty regular thing. A number of my friends take it to get to work not to be "urban hip" but because it save's them money and time.

I find it funny that some people complain about LA's public transit option's not extensive enough or not a lot of people ride it but when someone actually rides it other than because they have to... it seems like they're being accused of wanting to be "urban hip".

[northbay]

^ interesting comments.

while entertaining, i do want to respond to say that everyone brings up good points. dtla is much of a 'facade' as edluva points out, but i dont think that should stop people from going there or stop people from improving/developing it. what makes a place is not just the buildings, ITS THE PEOPLE. as la improves its transit options, it will more and more start to look like "new urbanism." these things take time tho, you cant change the feel of a city overnight.

and keep posting people. while i rarely contribute since i live a few hundred miles away, i regularly read this thread to keep up on la. some things people say may sound stupid to other people but in order to have a true discussion, everyone should be allowed to speak (type).

and thanks for those pix threehundred. the richfield looks wayy better than those modernist monstrosities.

[JDRCRASH]

^ Yes, but there comes a point to whether it's true or not, consistent negative comments like Edluva's waste everyone's time because they speak backwards, not forwards. We outta hire Tom In Chicago or Steely Dan as LA moderators, because they would NEVER allow such comments if they were about Chicago, so why should we give forumers like Edluva a free pass on trolling?

Colemonkee, seriously; Edluva has been irritating forumers like LAB and I on the status quo of Downtown for a while now, and we're tired of it.

[JDRCRASH]

And BTW Edluva, I implore you to read the article I posted, because it highlights that although Downtown has a long way to go, it has great potential, particularly in the Historic Core.

[Steve2726]

This is a free country and Edluva can post whatever he wants. We need a devil's advocate and he plays the role well. Unlike the relentless boosterism in the Chicago forum, we are open to criticism as long as its constructive. We may disagree with Ed but he makes valid points. If you don't like what he says, use the "ignore" function.

[RAlossi]

while entertaining, i do want to respond to say that everyone brings up good points. dtla is much of a 'facade' as edluva points out

Facade? How do you figure?

[LAsam]

pure comedy. only in an la forum

Don't forget to tip your waitress! :tup:

[ThreeHundred]

^ interesting comments.

while entertaining, i do want to respond to say that everyone brings up good points. dtla is much of a 'facade' as edluva points out, but i dont think that should stop people from going there or stop people from improving/developing it. what makes a place is not just the buildings, ITS THE PEOPLE. as la improves its transit options, it will more and more start to look like "new urbanism." these things take time tho, you cant change the feel of a city overnight.

and keep posting people. while i rarely contribute since i live a few hundred miles away, i regularly read this thread to keep up on la. some things people say may sound stupid to other people but in order to have a true discussion, everyone should be allowed to speak (type).

and thanks for those pix threehundred. the richfield looks wayy better than those modernist monstrosities.

^ This. :tup:

[Just-In-Cali]

Its funny how no matter what the downtown topic is, it somehow gets turned into a talk of Los Angeles' merit as a "true city" and how "un-realistic and clueless" its citizens are.
Everyone can express and opinion, but my gawd its depressing in here. :yuck:

Many of the old structures being shown in the old pictures are spectacular, but, I truly don’t think had they all been left in place, it would have changed downtown's fate through the next 40 years. The biggest crime that was committed in LA and other Sunbelt cities is they came to be during the auto revolution. Chart the growth of every US city that came of age pre 1900 and then post 1900 and you can see that no matter how they may have started, most after 1900 ended up in the state LA is in now. All we would have had instead was a crowded and dead city core filled with even more dilapidated older structures and poverty because the population flight to the suburbs would have still occurred. Many of the "true" (I use the term loosely) cities out there have only in the last 10 to 15 years been able to get their city centers viable enough to be considered "desirable" again. Not that parking lots are better, but we would have had just a different set of problems today. The process of undoing that damage has begun, but we are a generation away from any real mass level changes.
If Ed is the devil's advocate (though even the devil would be taken aback at the cutting comments Ed is sometimes known for :haha: )..myself and a few others play the cautious optimists...basically keeping our fingers crossed. :tup: