[colemonkee]

Downtown Los Angeles Rundown 3.0

After speaking with M II A II R II K, we decided it was best to create a new thread so we can keep this first post updated as new projects get announced and current projects change status. I know we didn't reach 10,000 posts with Version 2, but this one should last for quite a while, and can be updated accordingly. Adaptive re-use projects are not listed on the front page, but they are discussed within.

Projects are listed in order of tallest to shortest (to the best of our knowledge), and grouped into the following categories: Under Construction, Approved, Proposed, On Hold, and Recently Completed. Heights are listed only where they have been confirmed.

For reference, here's a link to the old thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=113359&page=85).


Under Construction - new construction


Ritz Carlton/Marriot Convention Center Hotel
54 stories - 663 ft. - hotel & residential

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9238/ritzcarltontowerdr5.gif
(Photo credit: http://www.gensler.com/) (http://www.gensler.com/)


717 Flower
35 Stories - 395 ft. - residential

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1623/717flowernew.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.meruelomaddux.com/) (http://www.meruelomaddux.com/)


Concerto
27 stories - 335 ft. - residential
27 stories - 335 ft. - residential
8 stories - residential

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1685/concertorenderjo5.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.astanienterprises.com/) (http://www.astanienterprises.com/)


LAPD Headquarters
10 stories - government

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7562/lapdhqwa7.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.dmjmhn.aecom.com/) (http://www.dmjmhn.aecom.com/)


University Gateway
8 Stories - residential

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9715/universitygatewayha0.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.urbanpartnersllc.com/)


Sakura Crossing (Little Tokyo Block 8)
6 stories - residential

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5636/sanpedroapartmentsut3.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.angelenic.com/) (http://www.angelenic.com/)


The Medallion
6 stories - residential

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5192/medallionrenderdv7.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.m2a-architects.com/)



Approved - new construction


Park 5th
76 stories - 820 ft. - residential
40 stories - residential

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9898/park5threndernewus8.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.parkfifth.com/)


LA Central
54 stories - residential
40 stories - residential

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4302/lacentralnew20070809jv2.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.morleybuilders.com) (http://www.morleybuilders.com)


Grand Avenue Project - Phase I
48 stories - residential & hotel (Frank Gehry)
19 stories - residential

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1928/grandaverendernight2qv5.jpg
(Photo credit: www.grandavenuela.com (http://www.grandavenuela.com))


1340 Figueroa
43 stories - residential

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/741/1340figueroanewgy0.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.angelenic.com)


Glass Tower
23 stories - 250 ft. - residential

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/281/glasstower1bigdg4.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.theglasstower.com/) (http://www.theglasstower.com/)


Residences at Bixel
17 stories - residential

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7649/ingraham1revisedyr2.jpg
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3568/ingraham2revisedit5.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.angelenic.com/)


One Santa Fe
? Stories - residential

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9730/onesantaferenderai4.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.mmaltzan.com/)




Proposed - new construction


Wilshire Grand Redevelopment
60 stories - office
40 stories - hotel and residential

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8071/wilshiregrandrender1.jpg
(Photo credit: http://la.curbed.com) (http://la.curbed.com)


Maguire Office Tower
50 stories - office

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6320/maguiretowerba1.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.keatingkhang.com) (http://www.keatingkhang.com)


Zen Tower
50 stories - residential

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3003/zenrendernewbwtj4.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown/Skidmore, Owings & Merrill)


1027 Wilshire
48 stories - residential

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4871/1027wilshire1largenewis3.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.amidigroup.com) (http://www.amidigroup.com)


Southpark Towers - Phase 1
44 stories - residential

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6931/1150grandrendertd3.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.meruelomaddux.com/) (http://www.meruelomaddux.com/)


Southpark Towers - Phase II
? stories - residential
? stories - residential

(Warning: Old render)
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/420/12thandgrandlargery1.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.keatingkhang.com) (http://www.keatingkhang.com)


Park Tower
42 stories - 490 ft. - residential

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4946/parktower2wg3uw7.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.cimgroup.com) (http://www.cimgroup.com)


Metropolis
45 stories - office
35 stories - residential & hotel
30 stories - resiential
30 stories - residential

(render is just of Phase 1)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4523/metropolismay07sk2.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.gruenassociates.com) (http://www.gruenassociates.com)


1233 S. Hope
40 (?) stories - residential

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8697/1233hopeqc1.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.vanosarchitects.com (http://www.vanosarchitects.com/))


8th and Grand
37 stories - residential
25 stories - residential
15 stories - residential

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7611/8thgrandam7.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.astanienterprises.com) (http://www.astanienterprises.com)


The Residences at St. Vibiana
35 stories - residential

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3915/stvibiana072007wt8.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.nadelarc.com)


Jardin
32 stories - residential
24 stories - residential

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1286/figsouthoj1.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.exploresouthgroup.com) (http://www.exploresouthgroup.com)


Stock Exchange Towers
32 stories - residential
32 stories - residential

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4290/pacificstockexchangeji1.jpg
(unknown)


Lucia Tower
31 stories - residential

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5656/luciatowerwu8.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown)


1111 Wilshire
30 stories - residential

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3158/1111wilshirenewch4.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.davidgrayarchitects.com (http://www.davidgrayarchitects.com/))


The Kurtzman
30 stories - residential

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2804/amaconlargeqp0.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown)


Hope Lofts
25 stories - residential

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3606/hopeloftsnewom3.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.KFarchitects.com)


1500 Figueroa
25 stories - residential

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/788/1500figueroaet3.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.epstein-isi.com (http://www.epstein-isi.com/))


iHope (8th and Hope)
22 stories - 260 ft. - residential

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1585/ihoperendernewwp9.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.cimgroup.com) (http://www.cimgroup.com)


Block 8 - Little Tokyo
21 stories - residential

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9545/block820hi6.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.related.com/) (http://www.related.com/)


FIDM Tower
19 stories - residential

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/111/fidmnewrendervf0.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.rtkl.com/) (http://www.rtkl.com/)


Trinity Tower
18 stories - residential (Render shows 24 stories, proposal is at 18)

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3498/trinityrenderrevisedqv7.jpg
(Photo credit: www.gdsarchitects.com (http://www.gdsarchitects.com))


15th and Broadway
6 Stories - residential

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7558/15thandbroadwayez8.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.veniceinvestments.com (http://www.veniceinvestments.com/))


Avalon Matsu - (Little Tokyo Block 8)
6 Stories - residential

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2171/avalonmatsurenderms5.jpg
(Photo credit: alossiz at flickr)



On Hold - new construction


Titan/Rodmark Towers (City House & Olympic)
60 stories - residential
60 stories - residential

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8812/2leftviewlf3.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.robertsonpartners.net/) (http://www.robertsonpartners.net/)


Herald-Examiner (Currently Approved)
37 stories - residential (Thom Mayne/Morphosis)
24 stories - residential (Thom Mayne/Morphosis)

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6221/heraldexaminerrendermq4.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown)


426 South Spring St.
26 (?) stories - hotel/residential

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6767/426southspringrendermz0.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.johnsonfain.com)


Federal Courthouse
16 stories - government

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/319/losangelescourthouseyg1.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.studioamd.com/) (http://www.studioamd.com/)


850 S. Hill
22 stories - residential

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6263/850shillnv9.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.nadelarc.com (http://www.nadelarc.com/))



Recently Completed - new construction


Hanover Tower
26 Stories - residential

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1586/hanover200806221tr2.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Evo
23 Stories - residential

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8961/evo20081130complete.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Luma
19 stories - residential

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/147/luma20070610fridayew3.jpg
(Photo credit: fridayinla)


Elleven
13 stories - residential

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/7655/elleven20070506ke3.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Colburn School Expansion
11 stories - school & residential

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3551/colburnfinishederha4.jpg
(Photo credit: Eric Richardson (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericrichardson/465831437/) via Flickr)


Met Lofts
8 stories - residential

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2858/metlofts20070506lz7.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Market Lofts
7 stories - residential

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9408/931158646b487cbb3e7ocg9.jpg
(Photo credit: WonderlandPark)


LAUSD High School #9

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7267/highschool9qb8.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown)


LA Live
5 stories - mixed use (office, retail)
5 stories - mixed use (office, retail)
7,000 seat theater

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8641/lalive1tr8.jpg
(Photo credit: http://www.aegworldwide.com/) (http://www.aegworldwide.com/)


Hikari
6 stories - residential

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4832/hikari200701061jz1.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Vero
6 stories - residential

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4016/vero20070517yg1.jpg
(Photo credit: fridayinla)


Teramachi Senior Housing
6 stories - residential

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5630/teramachi20070728qa0.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Glo on Wilshire
6 stories - residential

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3172/glofinished20070920tm1.jpg
(Photo credit: fridayinla)

Mura
5 stories - residential

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3786/mura20080412di8.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Canvas L.A.
5 stories - residential

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1629/broadstonejb0.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown)


Artisan on 2nd
5 stories - residential

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/695/artison20080412ll9.jpg
(Photo credit: colemonkee)


Savoy
5 stories - residential

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7885/savoymr9.jpg
(Photo credit: unknown)

[JDRCRASH]

Sweet recap of Development colemonkee!:cool:

[Coldrsx]

nice projects...love 1027 wilshire

[colemonkee]

Let's start this thread out right! In the same order as the first post.


717 Flower

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2173/meruelo200705061on6.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1562/meruelo200705062rx6.jpg


Hanover Tower

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2047/hanover200705062qu6.jpg

Glass inside the balconies

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/30/hanover200705061ri9.jpg


Evo

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1652/evo200705062ng0.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5181/evo200705061fa2.jpg


Luma

Putting on the finishing touches. Should be moved to "completed" within the month.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9684/luma200705061vp1.jpg


LAPD Headquarters

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7/lapd200705061vt1.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2439/lapd200705062lo6.jpg


LA Live

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8041/lalive200705064hm0.jpg

Looking across Olympic, with the Club Nokia/office building in the foreground on the left.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6138/lalive200705065vs5.jpg

ESPN/ESPN Zone building

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9861/lalive200705061on2.jpg

Prepping for cladding already

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5598/lalive200705062nm3.jpg

Finally the Nokia Theater (please don't mind the horrible stitch job)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4339/lalive20070506panowa1.jpg


No movement on the Ritz Carlton hotel tower or Glass Tower. I didn't get a chance to look in the Concerto pit, but I assume there's no movement there as well.

[Easy]

Great update Colemonkee!

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Great job with the thread Cole!! Love that tower crane. one correction, i think the Mill Street Lofts are 16 stories, and i also read that it was u/c, but that could have been a typo.

[LAMetroGuy]

colemonkee, :awesome: great job on the new thread! I love the layout and appreciate all the hard work that went into putting it together! This is very cool... regarding some of the older renders (i.e. city house and olympic) is it because you don't have them or because you think that the design is in "limbo"? Also, isn't there a render of the Grand Avenue Towers (the towers next to the Trans America" that are "proposed"?

[colemonkee]

regarding some of the older renders (i.e. city house and olympic) is it because you don't have them or because you think that the design is in "limbo"? Also, isn't there a render of the Grand Avenue Towers (the towers next to the Trans America" that are "proposed"?
I posted the old renders of City House and Olympic because that's all I have. I know there are more recent renderings - of twin towers - but I couldn't find them. If you have them, post them here and I'll update the thread. Same goes for the Grand Avenue Towers - I've seen the renders, but couldn't find them for the life of me. They're probably sitting on top of my head, right next to the sunglasses I can't find. :cool:

one correction, i think the Mill Street Lofts are 16 stories, and i also read that it was u/c, but that could have been a typo.
I used 11 stories because that's what the architect's web site said - but it does look much taller than 11 stories. Where did you hear (or read) it was 16 stories?

If you spot any other errors or omissions, let me know and I'll update the thread. Or if you want other info (location, architects, etc.), I can update that as well, so long as we know that info is accurate. If you have renderings, just let me know where you got them so I can source them properly.

Now that most of the heavy lifting is done, this should be easy to update, and we'll have one place to aggregate all the projects.

[latennisguy]

According to the L.A. times article: The Loft re-imagined... "... just up the street is the site of a new building, the Mill Street Lofts, a $40-million, 16-story project designed by German firm Behnisch Architects and scheduled to open in early 2009."

[hughfb3]

Great job on the new thread cole, thanks; but why cant I view the previous thread, it wont let me in.

[bjornson]

Another nit pick. Isn't Grand Avenue approved? Same with Eighth and Grand (even though I think it's dead since Concerto visibly is).

Niceeeeeeeee by the way.

The photo update is a nice touch.

[colemonkee]

^ Good catch. I moved Grand Ave. to the Approved section and changed Mill St. Lofts to 16 stories. I'm not sure about 8th and Grand, though. Do we have an approved EIR for that?

Also, I'm missing a few projects: The Kurtzman, Grand Towers (Meruelo's towers on 12th and Grand), and possibly others. If you have renders of these, post em and any pertinent info, and I'll update the first post.

[colemonkee]

Great job on the new thread cole, thanks; but why cant I view the previous thread, it wont let me in.
It should let you in to the old thread, it just shouldn't let you post. At least that's the way I think it works. I can get in by clicking on the link in the first post of this thread and I don't have any special priviledges.

[LAMetroGuy]

I posted the old renders of City House and Olympic because that's all I have. I know there are more recent renderings - of twin towers - but I couldn't find them. If you have them, post them here and I'll update the thread. Same goes for the Grand Avenue Towers - I've seen the renders, but couldn't find them for the life of me. They're probably sitting on top of my head, right next to the sunglasses I can't find. :cool:

Here you go!


Grand Towers
Alameda Group and Meruelo/Maddux Development
Tower One: 44 stories
http://www.vtbs.com/images/large/3_2b.jpg


City House and Olympic New Renders:

http://robertsonpartners.net/images/1-Front-View.jpg

http://robertsonpartners.net/images/10-Back-View.jpg

http://robertsonpartners.net/images/2-Left-View.jpg

http://robertsonpartners.net/images/3-Front-View.jpg

http://robertsonpartners.net/images/4-Front-View.jpg


Los Angeles Courthouse
16 story

http://www.metropolismag.com/images/images_0102/fei/Los_Angeles_Courthouse.jpg
http://www.perkinswill.com/images/projects/lg/lg-77a.jpg


The Kurtzman
30 story
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/amacon_large.jpg

FIDM Tower

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm5.png

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm4.png

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm2.png

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm7.png


1110 Ingraham
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/rpulido/1D051C99-E34A-4E6A-A8F0-1CCDAB8D8F5.jpg

[skylife]

Wow - lots of cool stuff. LA is the kind of city that could be a world leader in modern architecture and design.

[Texas Tuff]

Nice new thread guys. Of the new proposals, I sure hope that the Grand Towers project and the Maguire Office Tower in particular get built....that's good stuff!! Very sleek and original looking towers to say the least (1027 Wilshire also gets a nod in my opinion).
:banana: :yes:

[colemonkee]

LAMG, you are the man!! I will add these to the first post later tonight. If you have the sources for these (where you found them), that will help too.

[LAMetroGuy]

Grand Towers: http://www.vtbs.com

City House and Olympic : http://robertsonpartners.net

The Kurtzman: unknown

FIDM Tower: http://www.rtkl.com/

1110 Ingraham: http://www.loopnet.com/

[JDRCRASH]

Wait, so the Los Angeles Building Diagram on this site has been updated?:D

Actually, Metropolis is an Approved complex as well, so people will have to remember that, too.

[Steve2726]

This is my favorite courthouse render:

http://www.studioamd.com/index2.htm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/rpulido/untitledLarge.jpg

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

No one posted this yet? from the LA Times...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/1-2.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/2.gif

High-profile L.A. residential tower unveiled
By Roger Vincent, Times Staff Writer
2:02 PM PDT, May 7, 2007

Park Fifth
Park Fifth
click to enlarge
High living
Graphic
High living
click to enlarge
 
Map

 
Graphic

Plans for a $1 billion twin tower condominium complex overlooking Pershing Square park in downtown Los Angeles were unveiled Monday by developers who expect to build the tallest residential building west of Chicago.

At 76 stories, the taller of the two towers would dramatically alter the city's skyline and rival in height the U.S. Bank office skyscraper. The project, named Park Fifth, also calls for a 14-story five-star hotel, fronting on the park across from the historic Biltmore Hotel.

The project joins several other massive downtown developments planned from Staples Center to Bunker Hill. The two blue-green glass condo towers would rise above the hotel, with the shorter tower reaching 43 stories.

"This is the first time in 30 years that all the stars have lined up" enough to start building Park Fifth, said Los Angeles developer David Houk, who began acquiring the land in the 1970s.

The project already has its supporters and its doubters.

Los Angeles City Councilwoman Jan Perry, who supports Park Fifth, says the building will be a boost for downtown.

"It has the great potential of becoming this iconic structure that is high-profile enough" to redefine the city's skyline, she said, and the location is appropriate for dense development.

"It's right smack dab in the midst of places where people work -- the Jewelry Mart, central business district and Bunker Hill," she said. "There's a lots of jobs within a 15-minute walk."

The project would stand at 5th and Olive streets on the site of the former Philharmonic Auditorium, which was razed in the 1980s to make way for an office and hotel complex. The demand for offices collapsed in the early 1990s and downtown has been burdened by an oversupply ever since.

But a burst of residential development in recent years has added thousands of apartments and condominiums downtown and billions of dollars worth of entertainment, shopping and hotel construction is underway or scheduled to start this year. After decades of blacklisting the area, lenders are again making loans for downtown developments.

Houk says he now has committed financial partners, most of the required development permits and has begun work on a new environmental impact report. Construction could start as soon as early 2008 and the smaller tower including the hotel could be open by 2010, he said.

The property would have six floors of underground parking to serve residents and hotel guests.

The project is drawing its doubters from people who wonder where there is a market for another huge new housing complex downtown.

Adding new downtown housing is a risk, market observers said. "There is a huge supply that far exceeds demand" at the moment, said real estate broker Stephen May of Downtown Residential Real Estate, who estimates more than 400 units are for sale.

Prices are holding level, he said, but may come down in future months as more new units hit the market and create competition.

"People wonder if this is the right time" to announce a large housing development, said economist Jack Kyser of the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. "Downtown is overbuilt and some other projects are grinding to a halt."

But the housing market could be thriving again by 2010, he said, and the Park Fifth gamble could pay off. A project of that size -- 732 condos and 218 hotel rooms -- "would pull the center of gravity downtown a little further to the east" and boost the appeal of the blocks around long-suffering Pershing Square, Kyser said.

The city's oldest park has long been a draw for the homeless and its walled setting above an underground garage sets it apart from the streets that surround it. Park Fifth's developers hope to help pay for improvements to Pershing Square, said Rich Marr of Brentwood-based Namco Capital Group Inc., one of Houk's financial partners.

"We are laying the groundwork" for possible upgrades to the square, said Perry.

The complex would also be connected directly with the underground Pershing Square subway station. As designed by New York architecture firm Kohn Pedersen Fox, it would wrap around the Title Guarantee Building, a 12-story art deco style office tower completed in 1930 and now being converted to apartments.

Park Fifth would also have a 15th floor garden with two outdoor swimming pools. At street level there would be restaurants and stores. Although the taller tower would have more floors than the 72-story U.S. Bank Tower two blocks away, it would be shorter in height because residential stories are not as high as office stories.

A spokeswoman for Maguire Properties Inc., owner of U.S. Bank Tower, said the company "welcomes the addition to the downtown skyline" and that Park Fifth would "bring critical mass and further enhance the central business district."

Park Fifth developers promise to bring what could be the third five-star hotel for downtown, which hasn't had a top-class hostelry for decades. No operator has been selected for the hotel in Park Fifth, but Mandarin Oriental has agreed to be part of the $2 billion Grand Avenue project, set to break ground this year, and Ritz Carlton will manage a hotel at the $2.5 billion L.A. Live project under construction near Staples Center.

Houk, the Park Fifth developer, is a former owner of the Pasadena Playhouse and bought the Variety Arts Center on South Figueroa Street in downtown Los Angeles last year with the intention of restoring the historic theater and reopening it as an entertainment venue.

Investor Namco Capital Group owns commercial and residential property in Southern California, including the Marriott Los Angeles Downtown hotel. Also investing in the project is Africa Israel Investments Ltd., a publicly traded development company based in Israel.

Roger.Vincent@latimes.com

[JRinSoCal]

^^^WOW! What an amazing update and renderings. Thanks colemonkee! I hope to buy a condo in this place hopefully in 3 years. This place is gonna be off the hook!

[DJM19]

If only the park actually looked like that.,..

[colemonkee]

Thanks for all the images and info. I updated the first post:

- New render for Grand Avenue Project
- New render for Park Fifth, added height
- New render for Titan/Rodmark Towers. Can anyone confirm the floor count?
- Added Grand Towers. Does anyone know the height of the other two towers?
- New render for Park Tower
- Added the Kurtzman
- New render for FIDM Tower
- Added the Federal Courthouse
- Added 1111 Ingraham

I didn't change the status of Metropolis because I'm not entirely sure it's approved. Of course, our definition of "approved" really is kind of nefarious. Can anyone confirm that the EIR was approved for Metropolis?

[Westsidelife]

Park Fifth's website has a nice rendering of the project. Could someone post it? I don't know how to.

http://www.parkfifth.com/

[LA420]

Niceeeeeeeeeeee Job Cole:tup:, but there is a typo on the High school, you have it listed as LAPD High school, Its LAUSD. Anyways nice job bro :cheers:.

[colemonkee]

Park Fifth's website has a nice rendering of the project. Could someone post it?
Done. It's on the first page. It does show a lot more detail. Good catch.

[citywatch]

Construction could start as soon as early 2008 and the smaller tower including the hotel could be open by 2010, he said.The devlpr was quoted just a few wks ago that they'd start work as soon as Oct of this yr. Now it's 2008?

The devlpr of the Titan towers, the olympic & city House, originally said they'd break ground in 2007. Last I heard, it's now sometime next yr.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on m......

....oh, hell, if a devlpr raises everyone's hopes up high, only to cause them to come crashing down later, their head should be ripped off!!!


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Imyurdada/2.gif

820 ft? I thought it was going to be taller than the AON bldg, which is around 868 ft tall.

Then again, I don't want to get too picky about the bldg's height. Just build the damn thing & hurry up & get rid of that parking lot at 5th & Olive.

[Westsidelife]

^It originally was supposed to be 890 ft. tall.

Anyways, I'm very excited for this project to get going. PLUS, Pershing Square is going to be upgraded though I'd rather see the thing bulldozed and remade from scratch.

There's also the parking lot right next to the Pershing Square subway station. I wonder what its fate will be? Hmmm...

[LosAngelesBeauty]

This is a fantastic thread! So organized and easy to peruse. Thanks Colemonkee for the effort!

[colemonkee]

^ Thanks, man. I appreciate the kind words. This thread is a collective effort. A lot of forumers contribute to it - I just organized it.

Hopefully we can add some more buildings to the first page soon. There's an article in the Downtown News this week that mentions a 30-ish story tower in the beginning stages of development just to the west of the Chapman Lofts, on 8th and Spring. No render yet, but be on the lookout for it.

[LAMetroGuy]

^It originally was supposed to be 890 ft. tall.


Just because the LA Times put 820 feet in their graphic doesn't make it official. ;)

I put more faith in the Notice of Preparation for Environmental Impact Analysis drafted by Christopher A. Joseph & Associates. This was reviewed by the developer and archtiects and provided to the CRA.

We all know how the Downtown News article inflated the height by saying it would be taller than the Library Tower and nowt he LA times put a graphic with 820 feet. I am more confident that it will be the height of 890 feet per the Notice of Preparation for Environmental Impact Analysis. Now, in the downtownnews article, they did mention that they may scale down the building to fewer floors than the planned 76. Maybe the scaled down version would put it at 820? Maybe the author of the article got the two confused. Lets not jump to conclusions until we see the final EIR.

[TOMdowntown]

My God!
A tower is a tower. Personally, I like the skyline as it is now and don't know that I want to see another tower just as tall as the Library Tower. I thike the effect it makes. Other towers filling in is great, and the difference of 50 feet or so if nothing when it comes to 500 ft + towers. Downtown is officially a changed place, even if things slow down now.

[LAMetroGuy]

My God!
A tower is a tower. Personally, I like the skyline as it is now and don't know that I want to see another tower just as tall as the Library Tower. I thike the effect it makes. Other towers filling in is great, and the difference of 50 feet or so if nothing when it comes to 500 ft + towers. Downtown is officially a changed place, even if things slow down now.

I agree, but the reason we are talking about 70 feet is because of the statement "second tallest in downtown". Taking that into consideration, 70 feet makes a difference. However, talking about towers in general, I agree... who cares just build the dam thing!

[ThreeHundred]

I seriously hope this version of FIDM gets built.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm2.png

[LAMetroGuy]

I like this version better, I like glass... but either is fine.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm7.png

[Westsidelife]

^Me too. The design isn't as wild. Though I think it's a little too boring and they could so much more with it. Plus, I'm not a fan of the setback.

[bjornson]

We should just have Frank Gehry design it. Then it won't be "too wild" for Westside and satisfy everybody!

[Sodha]

Are they waiting until Hanover Tower is done to get started on the FIDM tower?

[ThreeHundred]

I like this version better, I like glass... but either is fine.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/11jp/dtla/fidm7.png

While I don't dislike any of the FIDM designs, I think that since Los Angeles in general is a haven for contemporary art, I think that some of it's buildings should reflect that.

This is all my opinion of course. :frog:

[Westsidelife]

Just for the record, not all of Frank Gehry's work appeals to me. However, WDCH is such a beauty.

[colemonkee]

there is a typo on the High school, you have it listed as LAPD High school, Its LAUSD.
Ha! I fixed that one finally. Good catch. I can't believe I wrote it that way :dunce:

[citywatch]

I'm glad there are lists of proposed new projs for the hood, & that they're kept up to date. But because of projs like Concerto, which has come to a standstill even after ground was broken, or the Medallion, which so far has missed several announced start up dates, I find myself not looking too closely at any proposal unless I'm sure it's a done deal.

What I do like to keep a close eye on are things like what the person from Forest City says about her co's projs in LA, which includes the met lofts & metro417. If most devlprs can make a similar claim----about their projs in LA being greeted with success----then proposed new bldgs like FIDM's tower, or Park fifth, or many of the other projs on colemonkee's or anyone else's list, are more likely to become reality. And that's when I start taking them seriously & wanna get into the details, such as what they'll look like, or how tall they'll be, or whether they'll have ground floor stores or not.


Urban Pioneers Need New Places to Explore

Cities must look beyond first wave of residents to attract more people to redeveloping cores

By KEELEY WEBSTER
CREJ Staff Writer
APRIL 30, 2007

As far back as most Angelenos can remember, downtown Los Angeles has been a business center, not a place that people lived. Many forget, however, that downtown Los Angeles had vibrant residential neighborhoods and was the center of the city's nightlife prior to World War II. After the war, the soldiers started families and embraced the hope of single-family homeownership that the region's freeway system made possible. As a result, the suburbanization of Los Angeles took off and downtown became a mostly nine-to-five environment, mirroring a long-term national trend that hollowed out downtown residential populations.

That trend is reversing itself today as two-thirds of the nation's largest and most underdeveloped downtowns have growing residential populations of urban pioneers as reflected in the downtown redevelopment in San Diego, Sacramento and Los Angeles. Once again, the demand for a better quality of life has pushed the pendulum of residential demand from "drivable suburbanism" to "walkable urbanity," according to Christopher B. Leinberger, a metropolitan land strategist, developer and visiting fellow at The Brookings Institution. "This is, to some extent, a sort of 'back to the future' future," he said.

Leinberger, who spoke earlier this month at the Benjamin S. Crocker Symposium on Real Estate Law and Business 2007, estimated that the need for more sustainable environments, changing demographics, new cultural dynamics and infrastructure limitations will lead to the creation of more than 50 walkable urban centers in the Los Angeles Basin, each reminiscent of the historic downtown environment. "I personally think that one day people are going to wake up and realize that [downtown Los Angeles] is one of the great downtowns in the country," he said.

For some that day is now. Downtown's residential population has added 10,000 residents since 1998, according to Hal Bastian, vice president and director of economic development for the Downtown Center Business Improvement District. That population will grow significantly as more than 7,000 new residential units under construction are delivered. "Sprawl has hit the wall in Los Angeles and God stopped making land in Los Angeles," Bastian said. "The only place development is embraced is in downtown Los Angeles."

Despite billions in new investment and development, observers remain divided on the future of downtown markets. Also, as the national housing market drops, some question whether the downtown resurgence also will slow. So far the changing housing market hasn't scared away developers like Forest City Residential West Inc., which is attracted to the changing downtown demographics.

Renata Simril, vice president of development for Forest City, said the developer has three rental projects and two condominium projects in downtown Los Angeles that are all fully occupied. "We are still very bullish on downtown," she said.

What Color Is Your Collar?

The trend of downtown revitalization, which is delivering thousands of new high-end residential units in Los Angeles, was preceded by a very different demographic. In the 1980s a wave of artists formed the Arts District in abandoned downtown industrial buildings, giving the area a decidedly paint-splattered-collar appeal.

When artist Andre Miripolsky looked at moving to the Arts District 12 years ago, he chose The Brewery in Lincoln Heights over the official Artists District. He chose to live near but not in the middle of the action because of downtown's reputation. "After 5 p.m. it was dead. There were no amenities there," Miripolsky said. "It's the idea of having a Volvo or Mercedes parked next to Skid Row."

This trend took an evolutionary leap forward in 1999 when the city of Los Angeles adopted its adaptive-reuse ordinance and experienced private and institutional developers began to convert obsolete commercial buildings into highly amenitized rentals and condominiums. That development attracted a more affluent urban pioneer to live within blocks of Los Angeles' Skid Row, and priced out the artists.

"A lot of artists have left downtown because the prices are going up and the real artists' lofts with 25-foot ceilings are being converted to loft apartments and condominiums with 12-foot ceilings," Miripolsky said.

The transition of a portion of downtown from artists to white-collar workers is a classic trend in downtowns nationwide, Miripolsky said. He compared it to New York City's SoHo artists being forced to move to Brooklyn when that Arts District became a hip place to live. In San Francisco, hipsters organized themselves during the height of the high-tech boom when gentrification brought Silicon Valley's suddenly wealthy into the city's established neighborhoods.

"Many locals have been priced out of town, clearing the way for a new breed of educated, overpaid rednecks - Reagan's evil spawn to be sure," wrote Upper Haight resident John Goett in the late 1990s in a blog published at www.ratso.net. "And as San Francisco morphed from an industrial shipping center to a Disney-like tourist trap, its charm diversity and history are being erased in front of our eyes."

The effects of this residential transition still resonate in San Francisco. With some of the most expensive housing in the state, San Francisco is one of the few California cities whose population has remained relatively flat. U.S. Census figures for San Francisco in 2005 put the median household income at $57,496, the median age at 40, with just 136,800 of the city's 719,077 residents children.

By comparison, a February 2007 survey of downtown residents conducted by the Los Angeles Economic Development Corp. found that the median age of downtown residents surveyed is 31 years old and that 72.7 percent of the residents have no children in the home. The number of households with children in the two markets may not be dramatically different, but the perception is. The LAEDC survey showed that nearly half of downtown's residents planned to move out within five years to raise a family.

"The key is that downtown is not friendly to children," said Jack Kyser, the LAEDC's senior vice president and chief economist. "When the child reaches school age, 48 percent said they would move out of downtown due to a lack of good-quality schools."

So who will take the the young professionals and empty nesters' spots in downtowns if or when they leave?

Los Angeles City Councilwoman Jan Perry, whose district covers much of downtown, conducts downtown tours and attends the frequent open houses. She said that she is seeing people 35, 40 and older looking for homes. "I was moved by the diversity of people who came down here, not just ethnically, but the age diversity," Perry said.

That represents a shift as the LAEDC survey found that 6.8 percent of the respondents are between 55 and 64 and 1.2 percent are 65 or older.

A similar group of urban pioneers has moved to downtown San Diego. "There is a sizable number of young professionals, usually without children, who are moving downtown," said Robin Maydeck, a resident of downtown San Diego. "There are a lot of baby boomers like me downtown, as well as very vital retirees, many second homeowners and seniors on a fixed income."

Building 24/7 Appeal

Perry has faith that the changes occurring in both the retail landscape and several new schools under construction will help keep more people in downtown. For example, a Ralphs grocery - downtown's first full-service supermarket in 50 years - is scheduled to open this summer, and the Downtown Center BID is soliciting a restaurant row, she said. These are important amenities necessary to support a vibrant residential community.

However, these amenities need full-time patrons. What Joel Kotkin, author and urban historian, characterized as part-time or temporary residents cannot make up the bulk of the population or retail will never thrive and downtown Los Angeles will never be a 24-hour city. "My sense is that a lot of University of Southern California students live there," Kotkin said. "I taught at [the Southern California Institute of Architecture] located in the Artists District. Every single student I taught, who lived downtown, didn't intend to stay."

Combine that with the part-time empty-nester residents, like the attorney who works in Los Angeles two or three days a week and has a downtown condominium, but a house in Palm Springs. That attorney will not be here on the weekend to support the retail, Kotkin said. Nor will the area's new high-profile residents like David and Victoria Beckham, who live in the Biscuit Co. Lofts.

In places like Irvine where a downtown is rising where none existed before, developers are catering to the affluent to populate a live-work-play environment. Los Angeles is doing the same thing with L.A. Live and the Grand Avenue project, in addition to independent condominium developments. "The problem with downtown Los Angeles is that it's not near the beautiful parts of Los Angeles, the beach," Kotkin said. "I can get buying a condo in San Diego, because you can walk to the ocean or get an ocean view."

The difference for San Francisco is that developers are not adding product to an untested market, Kotkin said. Unlike Los Angeles, San Francisco also has the BART system enabling Bay Area residents to travel throughout the region without getting in their cars. It will be at least a decade before Los Angeles has completed work on the light-rail system. Even being ahead of the curve on transit and density, San Franciscans face the same problems with the lack of retail amenities.

"As a resident of Haight-Ashbury, I have my choice of 2,000 styles of shoes and 500 blends of coffee, yet I can't get a prescription filled and I can't do business with a bank teller. I can't even get a doggone Xerox copy," Goett wrote in the blog.

Real estate watchers may be on the fence about the staying power of downtown Los Angeles' urban pioneers, but no one can deny that California cities are reinventing their cores. "If you look at downtown San Francisco, it has always had a mix of business and residential," Kyser said. "If you go to Sacramento, the downtown fell on hard times and they are trying to reintroduce residential. When San Diego fell on hard times, the city developed the Gaslamp district."

With all the growth planned in redeveloping urban cores, like downtown Los Angeles, it will be years before the urban lifestyle emerges. "I just don't get it," Kotkin said. "Even if it all gets built, it will be a construction site for the next 10 years - it will be very unpleasant. Maybe in 15 years, it will emerge, but I just don't see the market."

[citywatch]

Are they waiting until Hanover Tower is done to get started on the FIDM tower?FIDM's proj has gotten almost no publicity that I'm aware of, so your guess is as good as mine. If you could get a close look at the FIDM site & see that a lot of it is being used by Hanover as a staging area, then, yea, it's more likely that have a mutual understanding with FIDM that nothing will be built by them til Hanover is up & running. Regardless, I keep hearing about how the rising cost of construction is causing a lot of devlprs to get cold feet & either delay or cancel their projs. I know the long proposed new federal courthouse at 1st & Hill Sts has been snagged by this problem, so it probably also has affected the ppl at FIDM.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

once again Kotkin proves that he is indeed, an idiot. He said it best, "I just don't get it," Kotkin said. what a fuck-tard.

[JDRCRASH]

Perhaps LosAngelesSportsFan, but there's absolutely no reason cuss to get one's point straight such as this;)

[TOMdowntown]

It is becoming a bit ridiculous how Kotkin will find any reason and opportunity to criticize downtown. I think there are some concerns about the population diversity (economically speaking) and whether an interesting community can sustain itself over time if it is all high-end. But, Kotkin is wrong about people not calling downtown home. The recent BID survey found 90% of residents view downtown as their primary residence. I think he might have been right about this 15 years ago with the Bunker Hill residents, but things have changed now and a community is forming. I just hope people continue to feel connected to the community and that a variety of income levels can afford to live there.

[LAMetroGuy]

Perhaps LosAngelesSportsFan, but there's absolutely no reason cuss to get one's point straight such as this;)

Sorry JDRCRASH, but if there is ever a reason to cuss, it's when its directed at Kotkin ! So, LASF... :tup:

[dlbritnot]

Ya, I felt the concerns expressed in that article were a little strong. I dont think downtown is severely flawed. I do understand having a sustainable population, so good schools definitely need to be available as well as amenities provided in the retail growth. Things like laundromats, electronics, etc. I'm sure that as downtown grows, developers and retailers will notice what's missing in the community. So much is under construction and so much more is on its way that it's hard to say this boom will end a certain way. I dont think anyone can tell for sure what will happen long term until maybe 2010 when most of what's on the table now is open for business.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I hate Kotkin with a passion! Isn't he old? At least we won't be hearing from him TOO long as people do have natural life spans.

[edluva]

however much we all love to hate kotkin, and however good it feels to rally dogmatically against him, he does have a valid point. DTLA is a pseudo-downtown right now, and will continue to be one until it becomes the undisputed center of Los Angeles from a functional standpoint. That substantive transition won't happen until our rail network expands to connect DTLA to the other regions througout the city in a way that makes transit usage a pillar of everyday life for a more substantial number of people than occurs today. And this isn't happening as long as we're building rail lines to bumblefuck-montclair.

Until then, DTLA is just another car-dependent neighborhood trying to act like something it's not - potentially another glorified old-town pasadena or third street promenade, where suburban yuppies and hipsters drive in increasing numbers into pseudo-downtown parking garages before venturing in their limited way on foot as pseudo-pedestrians, of course getting as much gratification from it as a suburbanite hauling her monthly trashbag of recyclables in her yukon.

Forget BART. At least in SF proper you've got the extensive muni network and streetcars, making mass transit a part of daily life for people throughout this 7 mile square city. In SF, access to union square or fidi ("downtown") is a no brainer from outer-sunset or ingleside - a quick jaunt into north beach for foccacia bread before picking up the laundry, no big deal. In LA, a trip into downtown (if you should ever need one) is a task more easily accomplished by car for the vast majority of residents who don't live in the immediate proximity of its two or three disparately situated rail lines. I don't care what any LA booster says, we don't have anything comparable to missing your N Judah at 19th and, on the fly, walking down Irving towards UCSF instead to catch the Muni into Fidi, or on the fly, jumping on 71L at arguello instead. And we definitely don't have the peace of mind knowing, as SF residents know, that a cab ride is as easily found in the wee hours as a muni ride during rush hour.

With LA, city blocks are prohibitively long, even around K-town, meaning that forgoing a transit stop could become a daunting trek through dull, uninteresting neighborhoods to reach the next relevant transit stop. It's just not very fun using mass transit in LA. A trip into downtown is a real chore. DTLA is a downtown in name only, isolated from every other part of the city as any other non-descript neighborhood (again, save for those fortunate enough to live near those disparate few rail lines). The only reason it's "different", aside from its history, is that there are a few skyscrapers situated there, and people merely refer to it as "downtown", if only because they know it as where they dine with their spouses for anniversary fois gras and chardonnay. From a pedestrian's perspective, LA's user-friendliness is one dimensional: in a single vector (your rail line). Use it to go in two directions, but don't venture from it, especially not late at night.

that said, rah rah, fuck kotkin (booh, hisss!), go AEG, hurrah for density, yay for big buildings!

[RAlossi]

I don't think I've ever read so many negative posts from a single person. What's the deal? Give it time.

[ladowntowner]

Kotkin said, "Even if it all gets built, it will be a construction site for the next 10 years - it will be very unpleasant. Maybe in 15 years, it will emerge, but I just don't see the market."

I don't find the construction "unpleasant" personally.. on the contrary, it's rather exciting, adding vibrancy to the city.

On another note, I'm down in San Diego on business for a few days. The amount of residential that's been recently completed or under construction in DTSD is quite astonishing. A lot of it is low to mid-rise, but more of the newer construction is going high-rise. Looks like no real estate slowdown here at all. One positive thing I can say about a lot of the DT here is the scale - pedestrian - not isolated fortresses - yet anyway. I suppose there was not nearly the level of under-utilized historical buildings down here to convert to residential as in DTLA. That's where the bulk of units added in DTLA has been, until now, right? So that would make our renewal a little more difficult to ascertain from changes in the skyline up to this point (beyond the scrubbed and brightened older buildings). With the notable exceptions of Hanover, Evo and Luma there hasn't been much new ground up high rises that stand out from afar. Hopefully most of the approved and proposed towers do get built.

Developers have always been overly cautious about LA's urban areas while being bullish about a lot of less deserving or sensible locales. Oh well, slow and steady wins the race, right? I say if the developers build it, they will come. I think a lot of local (ie: L.A. Live, Grand Ave.) and global (ie: gas prices) forces are aligning to make DTLA's location more and more attractive to residents in our region.

Perhaps this Kotkin guy has never been in a high rise in DTLA on a clear day with the amazing backdrop of the rolling hills and purple mountains behind them to the north and east... while westward and southward ocean views and Catalina Island more distant... or the same at sunset, a blazing red sky then as twilight descends a sea of lights as far as the eye can see.. or are these things not beautiful too?

[SDCAL]

I live in downtown San Diego, and he same stuff Kotkin says in his article has been argued here, and of course the challenges exist but that's what development is all about and none of the arguments stopped core growth.

LA is running out of places to sprawl (same issue in San Diego, ocean to the west, desert/mountains to the east, Mexico to the south) so the lack of land, the housing costs that make lofts and condos a little more affordable than single family dwellings, and the overall national trend to downtown living being chic and "in" will all amount to LA's DT growing and becoming a premier neighborhood.

My advice is to not listen to nay-sayers like this Kotkin guy and invest in downtown LA, I have a feeling in 10 years people who buy now will be laughing all the way to the bank and will find themselves living in on of the cities most chic and desirable neighborhoods

LA, unlike San Diego, is a major player on the world stage and is one of the top 10 most recognizable cities on earth. If San Diego can bring a run-down downtown into a nationally-recognized urban center, LA can most certainly create one of the most spectacular urban environments in the world

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I like your thinking there mister ;)

[citywatch]

That substantive transition won't happen until our rail network expands to connect DTLA to the other regions througout the city in a way that makes transit usage a pillar of everyday life for a more substantial number of people than occurs today.
That transition also won't happen til more of the dumps & deadzones get flattened, removed & replaced, preferably with a lot more AEG (hip, hip, hurrah!), more density (hip, hip hurrah---better than a damn parking lot!!) & big buildings! (hip, hip, hurrah----better things like that than mile after mile of short stuccoed Carl's Jr, Mcdonald's, walmarts, ranch style houses, shopping ctrs with an Albertson's on one side, a Big lots on the other, & Rite Aid in the middle).

I notice most of the slams directed at the city in comments like these (http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=2766#postcomment) refer to things OTHER than transit. Yea, it's lousy to get stuck on jammed fwys, or to have few options in moving from one part of town to another. But it's even worse if you have to go through alot of scumlands when driving or taking trains, buses, subways or whatever.

[citywatch]

I don't find the construction "unpleasant" personally.. on the contrary, it's rather exciting, adding vibrancy to the city.
Exactly. I find it far more unpleasant to have to keep driving or walking by a rundown old bldg that hasn't gotten any TLC in yrs & yrs, or a parking lot that's still a parking lot yrs after the fact.

And it's certainly way more unpleasant to have to keep guessing why the devlpr of the Concerto condo proj hasn't done a thing to his site for several months. Or to have to wonder if the devlpr of, for instance, Parkfifth or the Glass Tower is full of BS. Of to not know for sure if the owners of the proposed City house & Olympic towers are going to end up more than all talk, no action.

[JDRCRASH]

Actually Los Angeles has more space to grow in the great Mojave Desert, beyond Palmdale and Victerville heading towards Barstow and California City.
The only problem is...how to get people from the northern basin into the LA basin.

Hmmm.... maybe a few tunnels under the San Gabrial Mountains?
The cost? Probably in tens of Billions? But its definatly worth it.
Think about it....both California City and the L.A. area at last truly joined.:D

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I hope you're kidding...

[DJM19]

Well that area might be connected to LA. But it isnt LA.

[ThreeHundred]

Actually Los Angeles has more space to grow in the great Mojave Desert, beyond Palmdale and Victerville heading towards Barstow and California City.
The only problem is...how to get people from the northern basin into the LA basin.

Hmmm.... maybe a few tunnels under the San Gabrial Mountains?
The cost? Probably in tens of Billions? But its definatly worth it.
Think about it....both California City and the L.A. area at last truly joined.:D

Erm..no. Not only is that a retarded idea but Victorville and the Mojave Desert is in San Bernidino county.

[ladowntowner]

Actually Los Angeles has more space to grow in the great Mojave Desert, beyond Palmdale and Victerville heading towards Barstow and California City.
The only problem is...how to get people from the northern basin into the LA basin.

Hmmm.... maybe a few tunnels under the San Gabrial Mountains?
The cost? Probably in tens of Billions? But its definatly worth it.
Think about it....both California City and the L.A. area at last truly joined.:D

Erm..no. Not only is that a retarded idea but Victorville and the Mojave Desert is in San Bernidino county.

JDRCRASH has suggested this before.

Los Angeles proper has more space to grow - right in it's core. Haven't you noticed all the parking lots and under-utilized construction and developments? We need to be going vertical rather than even more horizontal.

Wouldn't spending "tens of billions" for public transit and improved infrastructure to support increased density as well as encouraging developers to build in the center through financial incentives make more sense? I say in light of dwindling energy reserves (wonder why fuel prices are rising?) let those remote areas die a natural death and stop encouraging sprawl by subsidizing inefficient, nonsensical projects.

[hughfb3]

Are we that dissappointed at Astani for the lack of progress Concerto has taken that we label it Approved rather under construction on the title page?

[ladowntowner]

Are we that dissappointed at Astani for the lack of progress Concerto has taken that we label it Approved rather under construction on the title page?

A pit in the ground that hasn't changed in months does not technically qualify for the label "under construction" :(

[JDRCRASH]

I doubt the empty lots and parking lots all over the city are going to change anytime soon just because we need to expand up.
And the traffic through the 14 Freeway is getting worse every year anyway.
What suprises me is that a few don't know that the idea that L.A. must expand vertically is exactly the opposite of what most people want.
They want to stay in their gas-consuming automobiles, which is a shame.

@Threehundred: Oh but on the contrary, The Mojave Desert is indeed partly in Kern County and L.A. County..what you are referring to is the Mojave National Preserve...which is San Bernardino County...look it up in wikipedia;)

And as what history has shown us....many so called "retarted" ideas eventually give way to bolder and more innovative ideas, regardless if the original succeeds or not;)

[ladowntowner]

I doubt the empty lots and parking lots all over the city are going to change anytime soon just because we need to expand up.
And the traffic through the 14 Freeway is getting worse every year anyway.
What suprises me is that a few don't know that the idea that L.A. must expand vertically is exactly the opposite of what most people want.
They want to stay in their gas-consuming automobiles, which is a shame.

I humbly beg to differ with you, sir. There are a ton of in-fill projects under construction or recently completed all around the urban core (and not just downtown) and even more planned. The core is becoming more dense every year. As this happens, coupled with increased fuel prices due to shortages, driving around in "gas-consuming automobiles" will become ever less attractive. Congestion will increase due to the higher density and higher energy costs will put personal autos out of reach for many of those who have been able hang in there up until now. Continued sprawl is becoming unsustainable with our current model of transportation.

Suburbia has been "driven" (forgive the bad pun) by cheap oil and the desire by people to live single-family detached homes with mini private parks that need to be (wastefully) heavily watered, located 30, 60 or even more miles from their work. If you haven't noticed Los Angeles is in a fairly arid region and as you add more people, each person has a smaller share of that pie is also. Denser urban development is much more efficient from an energy, resource and environmental standpoint.

In the very near future (perhaps the time is already upon us) it won't matter what people "want", they will have no choice - unless they are uber-rich. Much of suburbia in the hinterlands will (rightfully) wither and die.

[colemonkee]

Are we that dissappointed at Astani for the lack of progress Concerto has taken that we label it Approved rather under construction on the title page?
The reasoning behind labeling Concerto "Approved" rather than under construction was that there hasn't been any construction activity at the site for about 4 months. It's not a knock to Astani or the project, I just thought it to be more accurate.

Technically it should be labeled "On Hold", but I didn't want to create a whole new category for one project. Once we see some activity on the site, I'll move it back to under construction. Hopefully we see that soon. I really like this project.

[JDRCRASH]

Well ladowntowner I hope your right because i'm tired of more and more people resorting to using their cars in this city

[colemonkee]

Took a look at the LA Live webcam, and they have removed half of the dirt ramp that provided access from Georgia St., and built a new, smaller ramp that accesses the site from Olympic. It looks like they're prepping for the hotel tower to start.

[JDRCRASH]

Is it just me...but does anybody find it a little odd that the last part of the project to be built is the Hotel?
Its almost like critics want delay it to buy enough to time to find something else about it to criticize and protest and thus force officials to cancel the project.
It really ticks me off when crap like that happens to soooo many projects these days :pissed:

[ladowntowner]

Is it just me...but does anybody find it a little odd that the last part of the project to be built is the Hotel?
Its almost like critics want delay it to buy enough to time to find something else about it to criticize and protest and thus force officials to cancel the project.
It really ticks me off when crap like that happens to soooo many projects these days :pissed:

Don't fret, JDRCRASH. The hotel at L.A. Live is very much anticipated and welcomed. I don't think there is anyone in the city government against it - nor much of anyone who matters anywhere else. The only person I recall crying out against it was the owner of the Bonaventure Hotel a bit further up Fig. (gee.. I wonder why?) L.A. has desperately needed a world class hotel directly across from the Convention Center for decades.

I think we have little to worry about on this one, short of a complete economic collapse in the next year or so.

[fridayinla]

Hey Colemonkee, great job on the project rundown! I didn't see Glo on Wilshire on the Under Construction list. Also, Vero is recently completed... in case you'd like to add those to your list.

[colemonkee]

^ Yes! You're right. I tried to find a render of Glo Wilshire and couldn't. If you can find one, post it and I'll add it to the front page. If you have a picture of Vero completed, I'll add that as well.

[SC_00_05]

[From curbed LA] Heartbreaking news this morning. We learn from the kind people of the Gansevoort Hotel Group that the proposed Gansevoort West at 9th and Grand downtown is off. We've been waiting for more news since our last update in August, but unfortunately none came. And now this from the GHG people: "The Gansevoort Hotel Group (GHG) and The Chetrit Group have renegotiated the two projects they currently have under development. GHG will wholly own and manage the Gansevoort South hotel and condominium development in Miami. The Chetrit Group will develop the 9th Street/Grand Avenue project in Los Angeles under a different brand name; GHG will not be involved." And it was such a lovely rendering...
· Gansevoort West: Update in Brief [Curbed LA]



Well, hopefully the Chetrit Group can still do a good job with this. At least it's still being developed and can hopefully be made into something even better.

[RAlossi]

And now we know why there wasn't much work going on. Hopefully we will see some action soon.

EDIT: If they're as good with their construction as they are with their web design https://www.chetritgroup.com/ we're in for some fun.

[ThreeHundred]

^ I love sarcasm.

[SC_00_05]

^^Yeah, wow, that website could seriously have been built by a 12 year old who had to build a "homepage" for a 10 minute project in 7th grade. I especially like that ultra low-res logo of theirs that they use.

[colemonkee]

Well, the folks at Park Fifth seem to be a bit more serious. They're running a 2/3 page color ad in today's LA Times, and their sales center doesn't open until "Summer 2007".

[alikaalex]

^ Is that ad viewable online?

[fridayinla]

^ Yes! You're right. I tried to find a render of Glo Wilshire and couldn't. If you can find one, post it and I'll add it to the front page. If you have a picture of Vero completed, I'll add that as well.

Here are some images of Glo I dug up. I hope they help:
http://www.loftla.com/loftla/Handler.ashx?PhotoID=484&Size=L
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL144/5090918/13911382/249221077.jpg

I can't believe I dont' have anything handy on Vero.

[colemonkee]

Thanks, Friday! I'll grab one of those later and update the first thread. Eric Richardson had some good shots of Vero up on Flickr. But when you get a chance, if you can snap a recent pic, I'll post it in the first page.

^ Is that ad viewable online?
I couldn't find it online. Looks like the web site, but with an orange background. Just go to a Starbucks and grab the business section and look on the back page. You shouldn't have to walk more than 30 or 40 ft. to find a Starbucks in this town. ;)

[hughfb3]

There have been rumors circling that Target is looking at building on Broadway and 8th, right across from the Tower Theater. That rumor has finally made it to curbedLA. There is a person who tells of hearing about it personally and also from a friend who is buying into the Chapman. Has anyone else heard this b/c if this is true, then downtown will be considered by a broader range of people as a place to live, especially if Target goes on the side of town that is currently run down and will be fixed up.

[citywatch]

Looks like the web site, but with an orange background.
Your heads up about that ad is much appreciated, since I'd otherwise not have known about it. That's not just because I rushed through the paper this morning, but because the ad, on the back page of the business section, didn't really stand out. As you describe it, it's pretty much a duplicate of the cover page of www.parkfifth.com, with some limited text in front of a mostly red background.

I hope the devlpr's willingness to spend thousands of $$ on that ad is a sign of his readiness & commitment. OTOH, why his advertising ppl chose an ad without much ooompf, one lacking a drawing of the bldg, is beyond me.

[ThreeHundred]

^ It isn't unheard of for a condo developer to take out a large ad in a newspaper or a magazine only to say nothing about their project or just display their tagline, name of the project, and a phone number.

[JDRCRASH]

I don't know if this was mentioned before, but does anybody know when Park Fifth is projected to break ground?

[Easy]

1st quarter 2008 according to today's press release (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070515006140&newsLang=en).

[Westsidelife]

Park Fifth Architectural Landmark Elevates ''Infinity Living'' in Downtown L.A.

Opulent, $1 Billion High-Rise Condominiums to Soar as Tallest Residential Edifice in the West

May 15, 2007

http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=95733&vid=4http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=95730&vid=4

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Los Angeles will be looking up in wonder as the spectacular Park Fifth, the tallest residential building west of Chicago, rises in Downtown Los Angeles. Capital partners Africa Israel and Namco Capital Group along with Houk Development Company are creating an architectural landmark in their visionary plans for Park Fifth, the first luxury residential high-rise to be built in Downtown. The Park Fifth project will also include a five-star hotel, to be operated by one of the leading names in luxury hospitality.

In a defining moment of the renaissance that is transforming the heart of Los Angeles, the estimated $1 billion Park Fifth will elevate the Downtown horizon and bring a new, exciting style of opulent “infinity living” to the corner of Fifth and Olive Streets, across from historic Pershing Square. And it’s almost here—Park Fifth’s sales center, which includes life-sized models of its 732 residential units, will open by appointment in summer 2007, with groundbreaking slated for the first quarter of 2008, highlighting the project’s exquisite taste and luxurious atmosphere; the high-tech wealth of comfort, service and amenities; and the fantasy and flair of Park Fifth’s high-energy, super-connected, here-and-now scene.

Park Fifth living opens an infinite variety of possibilities to its residents’ imagination, from cultural activities, to entertainment and nightlife, to active exploration of L.A.’s vibrant Downtown. The sophisticated design’s expansive glass walls will command floor-to-ceiling, unimpeded panoramic views of the city, from the ocean to the mountains. The striking architecture of Park Fifth, designed by the internationally renowned firm of Kohn Pedersen Fox, integrates the refinement of a New York-style luxury residential tower with the golden, quintessentially Southern Californian climate and lifestyle.

"Loft architecture has dominated the large amount of residential development in Downtown Los Angeles in recent years. We believe the city is ready for a new phase of sophisticated urban living that integrates the upscale urban lifestyle with Southern California’s unique character and natural setting,” said Rich Marr, the project manager. "This pioneering project creates a landmark that will stand as a powerful statement of Downtown Los Angeles’ revitalization into a cultural, entertainment and social center.”

The design features a lofty 76-story tower and a 43-story tower, connected by a 15-story residential bridge. The hotel will occupy the lower floors through the bridge area, and the condominium units in the 43-story tower will be identified with the hotel brand and offer their residents access to the hotel’s amenities and services.

While the 76-story tower will attain icon status as the tallest residential building west of Chicago, two mid-rise buildings surrounding a plaza will relate in height and proportion to the early 20th-century commercial buildings of the historic Downtown core. A monumental, eight-story “urban window” through the Fifth Street façade frames a view into the plaza from Pershing Square.

The plaza embodies the vision of Park Fifth’s creators of a Downtown oasis. Without sacrificing sunlight, open air spaces and green foliage, architecture and nature blend in Park Fifth’s plaza, sky gardens, private lanais and terraces. Glass balconies and floor-to-ceiling windows allow barrier-free views of the vastness of the city and its marvelous natural setting.

Park Fifth will offer 732 living units of varying sizes, attuned to the infinitely varied styles of California living. Choices for residents range from $400,000 to $3 million, including:

• Beautifully appointed units, ideal for live/work spaces

• Pied-à-terre suites designed for commuting professionals

• Two-story, 3,000-square-foot residences, and

• All units equipped with state-of-the-art technology, including telecommunications, entertainment, and next-generation “smart house” systems.

Amenities for residents include:

• Two rooftop pools and oversized whirlpools with food and bar service

• An observation deck on the 76-story tower

• Rooftop gardens on the 15th and 36th floors of the 43-story tower with built-in fire pits

• Fitness rooms in each tower

• 20-seat theater viewing rooms, music and video libraries in each tower, and

• Classrooms for wine tastings, cooking classes and other educational seminars.

The Park Fifth Public Plaza Level features a sculpture garden, water features, a casual café, and an elegant restaurant offering indoor and outdoor dining overlooking the park at Pershing Square. The hotel at Park Fifth features a luxurious health spa offering treatments to residents and guests.

The world-class Park Fifth project team includes design by globally renowned architect Eugene Kohn of Kohn Pedersen Fox (KPF), who was responsible for such imaginative venues as the Rodin Museum (Seoul), the award-winning towers and urban courtyard of De Hoftoren (the Hague and the Museum of Modern Art, New York). The Los Angeles office of the Leo A. Daly architectural firm will assist KPF to complete working drawings and provide construction supervision. Interior design is by the leading international firm Hirsch Bedner Associates.

About Park Fifth Development Partners

Park Fifth’s capital partners, Africa Israel and Namco Capital Group, along with development partner Houk Development Company, bring a wealth of experience and capability to the venture. Africa Israel is a publicly traded, Israel-based international development company with a strong U.S. presence with its U.S. headquarters in New York and multiple projects underway in Manhattan, Miami, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and now Los Angeles. Brentwood, CA-based Namco Capital Group owns and manages more than 10 million square feet of residential and commercial projects in Southern California and across the U.S. Namco also owns a community bank in Los Angeles, operates an insurance brokerage firm, serves as a large 1031 exchange accommodator and has an active mezzanine financing division. Houk Development Company has been responsible for numerous high-profile projects throughout the Los Angeles area for nearly 30 years. Based in Los Angeles, the company has been a major participant in the Downtown renaissance and currently owns, develops and manages real estate properties in Southern California.

For more information please visit www.parkfifth.com or call (213) 629-0000 for an appointment.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=NEWS_VIEW_POPUP_TYPE&newsId=20070515006140&ndmHsc=v2*A1176721200000*B1179319250000*DgroupByDate*J2*L1*N1000837*ZPark%20Fifth&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view_popup

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h125/MBenzLover/ParkFifth.jpg
High Resolution: http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=IMAGE_VIEW&newsId=20070515006140&newsLang=en&contentItemId=1604641&moduleId=202776713&ndmConfigId=1000837

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^^ That's too bad about Gansevoort Hotel! :(

[cityguy]

This is a very exciting project.

[LACityRat]

[/b]The devlpr was quoted just a few wks ago that they'd start work as soon as Oct of this yr. Now it's 2008?

The devlpr of the Titan towers, the olympic & city House, originally said they'd break ground in 2007. Last I heard, it's now sometime next yr.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on m......

....oh, hell, if a devlpr raises everyone's hopes up high, only to cause them to come crashing down later, their head should be ripped off!!!

820 ft? I thought it was going to be taller than the AON bldg, which is around 868 ft tall.

Then again, I don't want to get too picky about the bldg's height. Just build the damn thing & hurry up & get rid of that parking lot at 5th & Olive.

It currently costs about $525 an FAR square foot to build a condo tower up to 240 feet in the sky. That number includes land acquisition, hard costs, soft costs and interest carry. If a developer pierces the 240 foot height barrier, add about 30% more to construction costs. Soooo, The Park Fifth should run somewhere around $685 per FAR square foot to build.

Today, condo sales in Downtown L.A. are averaging around $540 per net sellable square foot - considerably LESS than it costs to build a tower like Park Fifth. However, condos trading in new high rise projects are averaging around $650 per net sellable square foot. Still - considerably less than it costs to build a tower like Park Fifth. In order to make a tower like Park Fifth "pencil" a Developer would need to target its sales effort to a much different buyer - possibly to overseas buyers of ultra-luxury condominiums. Truly a very risky gamble!!

The only tower that is under construction today that is selling to buyers of ultra-luxury condominiums is The Ritz Condos. AEG is planning on averaging $1,200 per net sellable square foot at The Ritz Residences. So far, I understand they've got reservations for about 60 residences out of approximately 250 units - and they've only been marketing for about four weeks.

The disparity between construction costs and today's market sell-out rates is what is causing Developers to continue to push back their start dates. Only the very bold and well financed Developers, such as AEG and Meruelo/Maddux, are throwing caution to the wind - believing that the Downtown L.A. condo market will experience another pricing boost. Frankly, when one considers the impact L.A. Live! will have on Downtown when it is completed in 2010, I'm betting with Phil Anschutz (AEG) and Meruelo/Maddux.

Bottom line . . . Developers like Titan and Astani (9th & Figueroa) will be able to break ground on their projects only when The Ritz Residences and or Meruelo/Maddux's condos sell out at an average of $1,200 per net sellable square foot. Before then, there are very few, or no lenders willing to stomach that kind of risk.

Just my humble opinion. :shrug:

[fridayinla]

So Park 5th is going to have an observation deck on the 76th floor? That's awesome and something LA needs more of, even if it is only for residents. I was in Tokyo last week and virtually every tower in the city has an observation level... I can't think of one in LA, besides all these "pool decks".

[DJM19]

the only part I dont like is that big exposed white part at the top

[LAMetroGuy]

It currently costs about $525 an FAR square foot to build a condo tower up to 240 feet in the sky. That number includes land acquisition, hard costs, soft costs and interest carry. If a developer pierces the 240 foot height barrier, add about 30% more to construction costs. Soooo, The Park Fifth should run somewhere around $685 per FAR square foot to build.

Today, condo sales in Downtown L.A. are averaging around $540 per net sellable square foot - considerably LESS than it costs to build a tower like Park Fifth. However, condos trading in new high rise projects are averaging around $650 per net sellable square foot. Still - considerably less than it costs to build a tower like Park Fifth. In order to make a tower like Park Fifth "pencil" a Developer would need to target its sales effort to a much different buyer - possibly to overseas buyers of ultra-luxury condominiums. Truly a very risky gamble!!

The only tower that is under construction today that is selling to buyers of ultra-luxury condominiums is The Ritz Condos. AEG is planning on averaging $1,200 per net sellable square foot at The Ritz Residences. So far, I understand they've got reservations for about 60 residences out of approximately 250 units - and they've only been marketing for about four weeks.

The disparity between construction costs and today's market sell-out rates is what is causing Developers to continue to push back their start dates. Only the very bold and well financed Developers, such as AEG and Meruelo/Maddux, are throwing caution to the wind - believing that the Downtown L.A. condo market will experience another pricing boost. Frankly, when one considers the impact L.A. Live! will have on Downtown when it is completed in 2010, I'm betting with Phil Anschutz (AEG) and Meruelo/Maddux.

Bottom line . . . Developers like Titan and Astani (9th & Figueroa) will be able to break ground on their projects only when The Ritz Residences and or Meruelo/Maddux's condos sell out at an average of $1,200 per net sellable square foot. Before then, there are very few, or no lenders willing to stomach that kind of risk.

Just my humble opinion. :shrug:


Very interesting, and also very sobering. I agree on betting with Phil and Murelo/Maddux... not to mention the Grand Ave and Metropolis Projects. When all of these projects come "online" there will be something worth visiting in downtown, people will then want to live there... right now its all in drawings and renderings and little brick and mortar.

I keep thinking that once Frank Gehry's Mandarin Oriental Hotel, LA Live's Ritz and Nokia Plaza is up and running, the snowball will start to gain speed over the rest of downtown. At that point, the folk interested in moving into downtown will increase, especially amongst those ultra-luxury buyers!

[LAMetroGuy]

cole... on the first page, you have the Ingraham tower listed as 1111 Ingraham Street and it should be 1110 Ingraham Street. Just a minor typo.

[hughfb3]

the only part I dont like is that big exposed white part at the top

I hate that white box, it would look alot better if it were a lit glass crown. Other than that, love it

[ladowntowner]

Not to be negative or anything and let me apologize to anyone I may offend in advance, but am I alone in thinking that the color scheme of the Glo development is just plain fugly? :yuck: <---- Yeah, it's almost that shade, too!

[bjornson]

I hate that white box, it would look alot better if it were a lit glass crown. Other than that, love it

If you take a close look at the Title Guarantee building, the top is a big white block also. I don't think they intend to do that at the top of the building.

[hughfb3]

If you take a close look at the Title Guarantee building, the top is a big white block also. I don't think they intend to do that at the top of the building.

But it doesnt look like that in person, its more detailed; which is what I hope they do with park 5th, make it more than what it is in the pics.

[LACityRat]

Very interesting, and also very sobering. I agree on betting with Phil and Murelo/Maddux... not to mention the Grand Ave and Metropolis Projects. When all of these projects come "online" there will be something worth visiting in downtown, people will then want to live there... right now its all in drawings and renderings and little brick and mortar.

I keep thinking that once Frank Gehry's Mandarin Oriental Hotel, LA Live's Ritz and Nokia Plaza is up and running, the snowball will start to gain speed over the rest of downtown. At that point, the folk interested in moving into downtown will increase, especially amongst those ultra-luxury buyers!

ABSOLUTELY!!!

We just have about three years of torturous anticipation before Downtown Los Angeles is truly on fire!!

Just an FYI . . . Metropolis is mired in a well mounted CEQA lawsuit, which, I believe, will take IDS years to sort out. Don't look for a groundbreaking for this project anytime in the near future. I kinda feel sorry for their lender, Fremont Savings & Loan. They're gonna seriously take it in the shorts if the economy goes south while Metropolis remains in litigation. (on second thought . . . why should I feel sorry for a friggin bank?)

Interesting story . . . Candy & Candy just purchased an unentitled development site for about 250 ultra-high end condos behind the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. They paid about $2m per door for land acquisition - which is unheard of in southern California. Candy & Candy believes that the Über Rich will pay upwards of $8,000 per square foot to live in Beverly Hills.

Two weeks later, I was talking to a competitor of Candy & Candy's about C&C's Beverly Hills purchase. I told the competitor that, for the life of me, I couldn't understand why C&C thought the Über Rich would want to live in sleepy little old Beverly Hills. Beverly Hills is sooooo "last century!" The 21st Century place to be in Southern California will be Downtown Los Angeles and nowhere else.

Ya know what?? Candy & Candy's competitor completely agreed!!

Sell Beverly Hills. Buy Downtown (now!). :cheers:

[citywatch]

Just my humble opinion. :shrug:

Thanks for posting something that goes beyond the far too common, & very brief, "who, what, where & why" type of comments.

However, I have to say I'm dissapointed & puzzled about psf construction costs in LA causing highrise devlpt to be difficult to pencil out compared with what goes on in other cities where big bldgs seem to be a dime a dozen, such as all the condo/apt towers in Chicago, NYC, toronto, or the major cities of Asia or south America. Or even smaller towns like vancouver.

I saw a set of pics of Sao Paolo, posted in a SSP forum several months ago, & the number of skyscrapers there made LA look like podunk.

I like to think highrise projs in LA would pencil out if devlprs weren't so $$$ hungry, basing that on the big mark up that ppl have applied to houses they'll buy, fix up & then sell, on the "Flip that house" TV show. But is it fair to assume that devlprs are bailing out or dragging their feet because they're too greedy when someone like Astani goes through all the hassle of breaking ground on the Concerto proj only to stop in midstream?

And I can't forget that it was only around 6 or 7 yrs ago that almost NOTHING was being built in DT because devlprs said they couldn't get a high enough return on any new condo or apt proj they'd sponsor.

I know at least one or two highrise apt bldgs directly south of Disney Hall were part of an entitlement process that a devlpr got approval for back in the early 1990s. However, he was able to construct only one of 3 towers, and that was it. Now here it is 2007 & those sites still are parking lots. Only the new Grand Ave proj may bring them back to life. But even the Related Cos isn't talking about doing anything with those properties til several yrs into the future.