[Front_Range_Guy]

No doubt this topic has been covered before... hopefully not recently, though.

This week, Colorado Springs lost a 55-year old ice cream shop/restaurant called "Michelle's". The property was seized due to bad business practices.

The local newspaper the next day reported the story, and in the comments section below the article, several people complained downtown is becoming less and less family friendly. There was a specific complaint by a lady who said her and her son were acosted by a homeless man. It just so happened, the night before I had gone downtown for dinner and on my way out of the restaurant, a homeless man was being very rude and beligerant... and well his behavior was just uncalled for, toward a couple of middle aged ladies getting into a car. It was raining. It was clear he had asked for either money or a ride and been denied. The fact is, the homeless in downtown cos can be aggressive. I've been spit at by them and called names by them. I don't really care... sometimes I give them money, sometimes I don't... and when they are beligerant I just shrug it off and move on with life. I know they aren't going to do anything to me. BUT... I am concerned they are scaring people out of downtown. On one hand, I feel like if you are a suburbanite who won't go downtown because there are homeless people... you're an ass and I don't want you there. On the other hand, people have a right to go downtown and shop and not be acosted on their way back to the car. How do you deal with this? Is this really a problem or do people need to learn to ignore them? Obviously homelessness is a problem, but it seems most of them only take advantage of the local shelters on the coldest of cold nights and otherwise prefer to stay out on Tejon Street. Interestingly, I read the largest number of homeless here live in caves in the mountains west of town. That's straying from the point though.

I'm not sure I've clearly posed a question here, but I think you can see what I'm struggling with. Your thoughts?

[skylife]

I hate to say it, but homeless people bring out the worst in me. I just can't find my compassion for them because they are so annoying. I can't stand them.

Sorry, I know how bad that sounds, but I'm just being honest. :(

[Chicago103]

When it comes to homeless I am both enraged at the homeless people that harass me and others but I am also enraged at the people that will avoid downtown because of them and isolated "horrible incidents". Its always funny how when something horrible happens in a city its a sign that "the city is dangerous" as if there arent going to be isolated incidents of people getting chopped up Jack Ripper style in a city of 3 million or 8 million sometime in its history but when something terrible happens in a suburb or rural area like Columbine or a series of serial murders its always because "well those people were just disturbed" or something.

[BG918]

I usually just pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to them, even if they say something, and I've never had any problems. When cities move the homeless shelter out of downtown it usually helps the situation.

[mhays]

I completely ignore them and would never give them money. I'm annoyed when others do.

I do give money to non-profits that build low-income housing. Seattle has outstanding organizations that leverage public funds (via our big levy), tax credits, donations, etc., to build nice-looking housing.

My donations are partially altruistic, or I like to think so. I admit that I'm more interested in getting street people out of sight (mine, tourists, shoppers, etc.), and in possibly turning them into productive people who I'll enjoy having in my city. Selfish reasons.

[kool maudit]

charity in the original (and the christian) sense is not an investment, either in the recipient or in one's surroundings. you give and you don't feel weird if it goes to crack.

i'm not saying you have to give things to homeless guys (i mostly don't), just making a point about the distortion of charity by a progress/results/investment-based culture.

[Chicago103]

charity in the original (and the christian) sense is not an investment, either in the recipient or in one's surroundings. you give and you don't feel weird if it goes to crack.

i'm not saying you have to give things to homeless guys (i mostly don't), just making a point about the distortion of charity by a progress/results/investment-based culture.

Of course its always easier for cowards to just run away and live in fear than actually get to the root causes of a problem and do something productive.

[JMancuso]

I hate to say it, but homeless people bring out the worst in me. I just can't find my compassion for them because they are so annoying. I can't stand them.

Sorry, I know how bad that sounds, but I'm just being honest. :(

i can understand. however, i still feel compassion for those who are sincerely mentally ill and wouldn't hesitate to give them a buck or two. the one's out hustling for cash and are capable of working, i have no use for.

[Policy Wonk]

This is probably the urban issue that frustrates me the most, what makes it most frustrating to me is not the homeless themselves but the urbanist types who pride themselves on being so tolerent that they will not allow anything realistic to be done to fight public vagrantcy.

The poverty pimps are the ones that frustrate me the most, believe it or not I have had to deal with "homeless activists" who are literal supporters of being homeless. To say you have a right to be passed out on the street in a pool of personal effluent and anyone who says otherwise is worse than Dick Cheney.

They said that being homeless is nothing more than a person choosing to drop out of the capitalist system and it is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice.

My greatest frustration with urbanists is that they are sooo tolerent that they won't put their foot down on anything for fear of being labeled intolerent.

I was in Ottawa last July, it was about 9:30 in the evening and it was still about very warm outside. I was in a resturant in Byward Market with my friends and the resturant was full, we had to wait half an hour for a table, while the patio was virtually empty. Why was it empty? Because there were a dozen bums hanging around outside the resturant badgering anyone who stepped foot on the patio for money.

[rockyi]

When I used to smoke, I hated walking around with a cigarette because bums would ALWAYS ask if I had a few to spare.
Nope, bye, see-ya.

[Mr Roboto]

Depends on the bum, but 90% of the time I say "no sorry". The nice one I see everyday, he says hi all the time (doesnt ask, just holds out a cup), Ill give him change if I feel like it, normally dont though. Sometimes if they have an unusual line, Ill give em some change for their creativity or humor. I dont give younger bums money though (30-40), they still have time to change their life.

Ill be honest, I feel pity for some of them since I dont know their story or how they got on that track. But in the Philippines, or a poorer country, beggars often have real physical disabilities - keeping them incapable of working so they have to beg. This is so different from the states, where some kid or some regular looking guy is just some lazy asshole asking for money. These bums are pathetic and aggravating, but again, I dont know their story; they just dont deserve my money though. Good luck to em anyways.

btw, to me this homelessness is a symptom of the lack of strong family ties in this country. Cause one would think when someone is down on their luck, their family would try to support them. It just seems that way.

[nath05]

In Minneapolis and St. Paul it's bus fares. At least once a week you get hustled by someone who just needs some change to catch the bus. Sometimes their mothers are in the hospital and they have to get down there. Talk about devotion.

I just tell em I don't carry cash, which is sometimes true, but always gets them off my back. Good and passive aggressive-like.8)

Although one time in Chicago on Michigan Ave. a guy came up to my girlfriend and I and busted into a freestyle rap about how pretty she was...a solid minute long, too. Of course he asked for a buck, and I gave it to him, which I felt was the good capitalist way of rewarding innovation:D

[shovel_ready]

Downtown Buffalo has an abundance of bums and lack of strong "regular" foot traffic. So it looks like our downtown is infested with vagrants.

We get the "bus fare" stories from them a lot. Usually it's some obvious bullshit story like that. Almost always the begging is for drug/alcohol money. Our bums are lazy and even "innovate", just ask for change and get real aggressive about it.

[pdxtex]

portland is rife with transients, most of which are harmless. the career bums usually leave everybody alone. we do have a ton of gutter punks that tramp up and down the west coast. they tend to be the more aggressive and annoying ones though. i just avoid all of them.

[Drewcifer]

I think part of the problem is that the economics of being down and out in America have changed over the last 40 years.

Most cities use to have an old sytle skid row that would be full of flophouses, day labor places and cheap gin joints. Urban renewal and/or gentrification cleared out most of the skid rows while immigrants from Latin America now do most of the day labor (because they are a lot more reliable than a skid row drunk).

So in the old days they would pick up sticks on a construction site or something like that and then spend their money on Thunderbird and a cheap place to stay in a fleabag hotel. Now they beg and live under the highway.

[Mr Roboto]

portland is rife with transients, most of which are harmless. the career bums usually leave everybody alone. we do have a ton of gutter punks that tramp up and down the west coast. they tend to be the more aggressive and annoying ones though. i just avoid all of them.

I noticed that about Portland. I loved the city, but there are a lot of bums over there. I went by that park by the river, and there were a bunch, some asking for money but most were just relaxing and getting bothered by cops. SOme had the aggresive attitude you mentioned.

[Steely Dan]

^ what tripped me out about portland was the number of white 20-somethings begging in the streets. it was just unusual to see white kids, homeless, begging in the streets. in chicago it seems as though 99% of the panhandlers i encounter downtown are black, and typically in the 30s & 40s age range (though age can be difficult to discern with the homelss). rarely do i ever see white people begging for change. and i've never seen a mexican or an asian panhandling on the streets of chicago.

[Top Of The Park]

....are the ones who aggresively panhandle. They are homeless by choice so they can drink or do dope....like the ones that congregate at the Colorado Springs Bus Terminal that they do nothing about.

Real homeless are those down on their luck like a mom and two kids. I give money to these people when I see them. Luckily there are some agencys and churches that help most of these people eventually.

Unfortunately, drunks are covered under the Americans With Disabilities Act. Alcohalism is considered a disease. Luckily Colorado Springs has only a fraction of the panhandlers that bigger cities seem to have. I have seen these idiots fighting over a corner in Denver. What they need to have is a law like in Mexico that if you are drunk and disorderly in public, you will go to jail. Also, there should be a work program and assistance for these people who want to turn their lives around. Give them a shovel or broom for starters, treat them with respect, give them drugs to counter their dependency, counceling, a decent clean place to clean up, new simple clothing and two square meals

[VivaLFuego]

If bums are rude or aggressive to me, I absolutely lose it and go off on them, and it catches them so off guard that they slink away. I do this in Chicago, and I even had to do it during my 6 hour visit to downtown Seattle which is simply overrun and teeming with bums (many of the aforementioned Portland variety).

I'm not a big or intimidating guy by any stretch of the imagination (5'9, 160lbs)....but if you just don't act confused and sheltered, and instead basically tell them where to stick it and look ready to kick their ass, they might hesitate when being rude and harassing to others in the future. When taking suburbanite friends (made in my University days) around town and they see me do this, they act shocked, but its basically realizing the difference between a loser bum and a gangsta thug, to whom I definitely would not give the same treatment (all black people look the same to people who've never really encountered them in life).

All that said, like some people above, I do like to help them out with some change or even a few bills when they are particularly friendly, though I prefer to help out street performers.

[BnaBreaker]

Yeah, although I can understand their frustration, I can't stand aggressive bums. Many of them, however, I find to be quite intelligent and capable of providing me more interesting conversation than most people are.

[skylife]

^ what tripped me out about portland was the number of white 20-somethings begging in the streets. it was just unusual to see white kids, homeless, begging in the streets.

Yeah and Boulder! College-age white kids begging for change in Boulder?! One of the friggin richest white bread places in the United States? That makes me so mad. Those kids are complete idiots. They are RICH kids begging for money for a burrito. It's insane.

I do like real hippies, though.

[Joey D]

I've been snubbed a bit on the forum, and IRL regarding my attitudes on these people.

I believe that, in this country, if you are in destitude, and try even a little, you can get a job and housing. When people die to come into this country yet American-born, able people choose to sit outside and accost people over 30 cents, it pisses me off.

I really have no problem with seeing homeless people, at all. I don't have a huge problem with someone with a sign and a cup. What I can't stand is a pushy bum. The second these people confront an innocent passerby they should be thrown in the slammer, or dropped off on the other side of town.

I watch this every day outside my window at work, and although I wave to the guy, and his beetlejuice-double of a girlfriend, it sickens me when I see this perfectly healthy guy get up and yell profanities and disturb an otherwise peaceful business-oriented street.

Oh, and if I get another person who needs "money to get back to Baltimore," I'm gonna go apeshit.

[crisp444]

If I make eye contact with a homeless person who is begging for money, I just will say sorry that I do not have change. If I don't make eye contact, I will just pretend like I don't see them. If I am waiting for the bus or in a place where I can't just easily walk away, I straight up pretend that I don't speak English and they almost always just let me alone.

I've only been physically accosted by a bum once in Boston when I was walking down the stairs to the subway (at Hynes Convention Center / Mass Ave. if anyone knows the area) pretty late at night. Since I didn't make eye contact with him and he wanted to be aggressive, he grabbed by leg (really violently!) as I was walking down the steps, causing me to trip and fall. I got up, pushed him off of his crate, kicked him in the crotch, and took his "give me money" sign and slapped him in the face with it. I then ran down the steps and past the turnstiles and have never seen him again.

[crisp444]

At least some of the white kids about whom you all are complaining have the balls to admit the reason for which they really want the money... I once saw a kid dressed up like Barney the Dinosaur on the Ave. in Seattle's U-District with a sign that said "I'm not gonna lie, I need money for beer!" And there's this young hippie looking black guy in a touristy part of Barcelona who asks people (in English and broken Spanish) for money so he can buy pot!! LOL, but at least these people are being real... and I don't mind them because they're chill and non-agressive. I do DESPISE the Portland/Seattle street kids though who are homeless out of their own laziness and who could easily get a part time job and afford a room in an apartment somewhere.

[Drewcifer]

^ what tripped me out about portland was the number of white 20-somethings begging in the streets. it was just unusual to see white kids, homeless, begging in the streets. in chicago it seems as though 99% of the panhandlers i encounter downtown are black, and typically in the 30s & 40s age range (though age can be difficult to discern with the homelss). rarely do i ever see white people begging for change. and i've never seen a mexican or an asian panhandling on the streets of chicago.I got panhandled by 3 people in Uptown, Minneapolis today and two were white; one was a gutter punk and the other was a scared looking kid who was probably an underage runaway. A lot of runaways from the northern plains seem to end up on the streets of Minneapolis. Some are just delinquints but most are running from homes where they are abused. One good thing I will say about the gutter punks is they tend to "adopt" a lot of these kids and are fiercely protective of them (I knew a lot of gutter punks in the 80s and early 90s).

[dktshb]

Well I suppose that there always was and that there will always be a portion of adults in society that are not going to be able to take care of themselves... how different societies choose to deal with it is soley up to its people.

[BnaBreaker]

Couldn't local businesses pay bums to wear signs that advertised for them? Seems like a win-win to me. They advertise on city buses, why not on city bums too?

[Policy Wonk]

I once saw a kid dressed up like Barney the Dinosaur on the Ave. in Seattle's U-District with a sign that said "I'm not gonna lie, I need money for beer!"

That guy HAD to be a frat pledge,

[mhays]

Downtown Seattle has gotten better lately. First, we recently expanded the "alcohol impact area" where stores can't sell certain types of cheap booze. Second, a certain pawn shop that turns out to have been a fencing operation was shut down. Third, we built a new apartment building that's gotten about 75 of the worst alcoholics off the streets.

We have grungy areas, mostly at the south end of Downtown, like around the county HQ, Pioneer Square, between the Market and the Retail District, etc.

The teenage bums seem to be in the U-District and Broadway, not so much Downtown.

[mhays]

Well I suppose that there always was and that there will always be a portion of adults in society that are not going to be able to take care of themselves... how different societies choose to deal with it is soley up to its people.

Mental hospitals. Seriously.

[Master Shake]

^ what tripped me out about portland was the number of white 20-somethings begging in the streets. it was just unusual to see white kids, homeless, begging in the streets. in chicago it seems as though 99% of the panhandlers i encounter downtown are black, and typically in the 30s & 40s age range (though age can be difficult to discern with the homelss). rarely do i ever see white people begging for change. and i've never seen a mexican or an asian panhandling on the streets of chicago.

Portland does not have the black underclass of Chicago or of other major American cities. Certain cities like Portland have a transient gutter punk population which is largely white. You see this also in Seattle, SF, LA and to a lesser extent NYC.

[pdxtex]

concerning portland, we are a equal opportunity underclass magnet!! there are plenty of black bums too, just not as many considering its a pretty whitey town (78%).
but steely dan is right. we do have alot of able bodied white folks asking for money, and not just punk rock hobos down on the bus mall. however, i think every city has somebody with a sign asking for gas money, or my favorite, the fake deaf guy with the little cards that say he is collecting money for some non existant, deaf charity.

[Jaroslaw]

I live in a city of seven-ten million (no one really knows) in one of the poorest countries outside of Africa, and I have never seen anyone beg on the streets. Even on the rich street with the Prada boutiques and the Western tourists, kids will come up to you trying to sell you gum for twice the normal price, but that's not begging... Asians have dignity, that's all.

Liberals have to make a choice: support a dense urban environment, or support the "freedom" of anyone to be a nuisance to anyone else... they can't have both.

[Cambridgite]

Couldn't local businesses pay bums to wear signs that advertised for them? Seems like a win-win to me. They advertise on city buses, why not on city bums too?
:previous: Best idea ever!! :haha:

[Cambridgite]

If I make eye contact with a homeless person who is begging for money, I just will say sorry that I do not have change. If I don't make eye contact, I will just pretend like I don't see them. If I am waiting for the bus or in a place where I can't just easily walk away, I straight up pretend that I don't speak English and they almost always just let me alone.

I've only been physically accosted by a bum once in Boston when I was walking down the stairs to the subway (at Hynes Convention Center / Mass Ave. if anyone knows the area) pretty late at night. Since I didn't make eye contact with him and he wanted to be aggressive, he grabbed by leg (really violently!) as I was walking down the steps, causing me to trip and fall. I got up, pushed him off of his crate, kicked him in the crotch, and took his "give me money" sign and slapped him in the face with it. I then ran down the steps and past the turnstiles and have never seen him again.

:previous: Best storey ever!! :haha:

[skylife]

Liberals have to make a choice: support a dense urban environment, or support the "freedom" of anyone to be a nuisance to anyone else... they can't have both.

Huh?

[Cambridgite]

concerning portland, we are a equal opportunity underclass magnet!! there are plenty of black bums too, just not as many considering its a pretty whitey town (78%).
but steely dan is right. we do have alot of able bodied white folks asking for money, and not just punk rock hobos down on the bus mall. however, i think every city has somebody with a sign asking for gas money, or my favorite, the fake deaf guy with the little cards that say he is collecting money for some non existant, deaf charity.

I've been duped by the guy with the little cards too :( . I never know who's for real and who's a faker. There was also a story on the news with someone finding a well-known, local bum in Toronto who was caught on camera sneaking into an alleyway, and driving off in her Mercedes to her lakeshore condo. That's why I don't give money to bums. Some people think I'm horrible, but I don't like giving money away to people who rob anyone who will pity them or probably wont use it to dig themselves out of the hole they (or someone else) put themselves in. I know housing affordability is a problem and since many of the people in skyscraper forums will probably become gentrifiers, we contribute to that problem. I feel sorry for those who get screwed over because they can't pay the rent. There absolutely needs to be more affordable housing and more programs designed at getting people back on their feet. The issue can't be ignored, but at the same time, I don't know which bums deserve my help or not, so I don't give money.

[VivaLFuego]

Couldn't local businesses pay bums to wear signs that advertised for them? Seems like a win-win to me. They advertise on city buses, why not on city bums too?

They already do that here, some furniture store does it quite often. I've seen several bums wearing signs at the intersection of North/Wells, and also in the Loop.

[BnaBreaker]

They already do that here, some furniture store does it quite often. I've seen several bums wearing signs at the intersection of North/Wells, and also in the Loop.

Damn, and I thought I was an invovator! lol I'm not sure why I haven't seen any of them. Maybe I just haven't thought to look.

[Frisco_Zig]

^ what tripped me out about portland was the number of white 20-somethings begging in the streets. it was just unusual to see white kids, homeless, begging in the streets. in chicago it seems as though 99% of the panhandlers i encounter downtown are black, and typically in the 30s & 40s age range (though age can be difficult to discern with the homelss). rarely do i ever see white people begging for change. and i've never seen a mexican or an asian panhandling on the streets of chicago.

Check out Haight Street in San Francisco. Same demographic. I will never go over there because of the gutter punks

San Francisco, the homeless capital if the US, even has Mexican and Asain (a few)bums

[Chicago3rd]

This is probably the urban issue that frustrates me the most, what makes it most frustrating to me is not the homeless themselves but the urbanist types who pride themselves on being so tolerent that they will not allow anything realistic to be done to fight public vagrantcy. You do know most of the homeless aren't from the urban areas? Many come from out lying areas....rual and suburban areas where they can get NO help. Cities have hospitals like Cook County (and the suburbs send their poor to our hospital..and Cook County foots the bill) because Suburbs and Rural areas deny much assistance. Plus if you are going to look for money from hand outs....do you get if from a town of 1,000 or a downtown of 800,000?

The poverty pimps are the ones that frustrate me the most, believe it or not I have had to deal with "homeless activists" who are literal supporters of being homeless. To say you have a right to be passed out on the street in a pool of personal effluent and anyone who says otherwise is worse than Dick Cheney.

Agree with you on this....if we solved homelessness these people would be out of work. Just like if we solved cancer or reduced crime by huge numbers...lots of people working in those areas would lose their jobs...not much incentive to solve the problem.

They said that being homeless is nothing more than a person choosing to drop out of the capitalist system and it is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice.

And that is why I am not so nice to them anymore....the persitant ones. They made their "clear choice". I am told to respect that...so they need to respect my "clear choice" to ignore them. They also say they don't like the rat race so they drop out...well go to a farm and work for food....don't stay in the rat race cities...please.

[Chicago3rd]

My partner and I use to come out of the Taste of Chicago and hand our remaining tickets to the street people just outside Grant Park. We felt so good....we helped feed starving people. Well a few years ago one of the papers showed how the homeless people turned around and sold the tickets cheap ass to people coming into the park then took it to buy the bad stuff.

So we look for a family with a lot kids and ask the parents if they would like the tickets.

[BnaBreaker]

My partner and I use to come out of the Taste of Chicago and hand our remaining tickets to the street people just outside Grant Park. We felt so good....we helped feed starving people. Well a few years ago one of the papers showed how the homeless people turned around and sold the tickets cheap ass to people coming into the park then took it to buy the bad stuff.

So we look for a family with a lot kids and ask the parents if they would like the tickets.

You should just buy food with the left over tickets and give that to the bums. I'm pretty sure noone is going to buy a half eaten sandwich off of a homeless guy.

[Chicago3rd]

^ what tripped me out about portland was the number of white 20-somethings begging in the streets. it was just unusual to see white kids, homeless, begging in the streets. in chicago it seems as though 99% of the panhandlers i encounter downtown are black, and typically in the 30s & 40s age range (though age can be difficult to discern with the homelss). rarely do i ever see white people begging for change. and i've never seen a mexican or an asian panhandling on the streets of chicago.

Lot of those 20 somethings came to PDX in their Teens....PDX gets a huge amount of Teen run aways from all over the country. So if they have been arrested for drugs, stealing and prostitution, things they did to live in their teens then getting work in their 20's is rather hard. BUT it is so startling to see. When I lived there I would get pissed because I was poor working 60-70hours a week just to barely survive and often the teens asking for handouts would have Doc Martins......I didn't understand that! I had tennis shoes with holes....in a climate that rains 9 months a year.

[Policy Wonk]

I saw a punk begger girl this week who had an iPod Video and an SLR camera, and the shithead beside her had a Motorola RAZR and a recent looking gameboy!

[kool maudit]

a well-known, local bum in Toronto who was caught on camera sneaking into an alleyway, and driving off in her Mercedes to her lakeshore condo. That's why I don't give money to bums.



this is probably less common than you think.

[mhays]

Maybe extreme. But I remember an article (long ago) that talked about the teen bums in Seattle's U-District making HUGE amounts of money, and basically being bums because it paid better than working.

That makes me sick.