[Lexy]

Well, not really but I did get my first view of one of these beached whales over the weekend. ATL had some severe thunderstorms on Saturday and BNA got a couple of Delta diversions out of the ground stoppages at ATL. Of those was a typical Boeing 767-332 and then a super surprise, a Boeing 767-432ER! Man, When I first saw it on short final I first thought it was a 777, but the engine size gave it away fairly quickly. This airplane is a cool airplane that you hear very little about. I realize that only two carriers fly them, Continental and Delta, but still this is unique because many of the same things that are on this plane are incorporated onto the 777. A very cutting edge airplane at the time and one could say a bit ahead of its time. Seeing one of these here in Nashville is pretty damn rare and to the best of my knowledge hasn't happened until now. Your thoughts on the 767-400???

Pictures, of course, from my website linked below in my signature line:

It was sunset and I didn't have a tripod, so I had to crank the ISO up to get a decent shot.

Delta Boeing 767-432ER ("Delta 115 Heavy" from Barcelona, Spain):
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/78709195/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/78707438/original.jpg

The Boeing 767-332 for comparison sake:
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/78661749/original.jpg

[Daquan13]

Ok, for starters, the most noticable thing. If you haven't already noticed it yet, the craft in the top two pics that you posted, is somewhat lower to the ground in the front than in the back. Like with the McDonnell Douglas MD-80.

This is because the 2nd fuselage stretch had necessitated taller main landing gear legs - about 18 inches taller to help raise the tail end of the craft up higher off the ground. Two more doors on each side of the craft were added.

The fuselage itself features an 11-foot stretch fore and a 10-foot stretch aft the wing. A new updated and revamped HVAC pack system was added. The restretched design can accommodate up to 304 passengers in a 2-class layout.

The tail is the same as the earlier 767s. Wheels, tires and brakes were inherited from the 777, as was the restyled interior, to give the cabin a more open spacious look. And BTW, ALL of Boeing's plane's interiors were given this same stunning award-winning style!

A larger relocated aft cargo hold door was added. The rake-back wing tips, at the time, were a first in commercial jetliner design. The -400 was the first aircraft to have them. The 777-200LR Worldliner and the 777-300ER both feature them. Boeing had toyed around with the idea of a giant 180-foot wing span, but then it thought about adding winglets. The rake-back tips were the ultimate decision so that the wing could be reduced to a 170-foot span with no loss in overall wing performance. Still a gaint span!

And the quieter more powerful fuel-efficient GE engines have at least 66,000 to 70,000lbs of thrust to accommodate the increased weight and fuselage length. as well as the increased wing span. The landing gear was also strengthened and beefed up for the same reasons.

The taill skid has been somewhat modified to better withstand scrapes which help protect the tail in the unlikely event of too-steep takeoffs and landings.

The cockpit instrumentation is the same as the 777's design. And as with the Triple 7, this craft also, came off the production line "out-of-the-box", meaning that it was ETOPS-certified right before it came off the production line and not added later.

Incidently, believe it or not, this plane was going to be the then new "777"! This is what the Boeing engineers were looking at as a possible target to be bigger that the 767-300, but smaller than the 747. That is until the airlines that were invited over to Boeing during the design stages of the craft had taken a closer look.

The eventual outcome was that they wanted a bigger plane than that, almost as wide as the 747. Then when Boeing had wind-tunnal-tested the scale model of the plane, it found out that the wing of this plane wouldn't support the larger design. Thus the 777 was born.

The elongated beefed up 767 was then scrubbed. However, it later resurfaced yet again in '00, this time as the 767-400ER. Only a handful of these were made.

Delta and Continental's intention for the plane was to replace their aging L-1011s and DC-10s respectively.

This plane was once thought of by Boeing to be made with half of a 757 mounted on the aft fuselage and with winglets that stick up, quite similar in appearance to those on the 747-400's wing. But none of the carriers had warmed up to it, so they had to scrub it. It was going to be the new "777" at the time.

The new -400 variant of the craft which was predicted by Boeing to have a healthy sales future with the airlines over the next 20 years, then had sparked Boeing engineers to make the further giant stretch of this aircraft. That is until 09-11 came along. It's too bad though. The plane would have been a smaller "777"!

I also, saw this craft parked at one of Delta's gates in Boston when I worked at the airport. It looks like a long skinny pencil! It's so long that it has to be used at one of their corner gates. It used to leave Boston every morning.

Delta had ordered and received about 20 or so, as did Continental. And BTW, both these carrier have the 777 as well! GE Capital has ordered about 10 of them. The forthcoming 787-9 Dreamliner, according to Boeing, will be the successor of this variant.:banana:

[Lexy]

What is cool is that McDonnell Douglas had the majority of their design team work on this craft after Boeing bought them out due to a talent shortage. Hence why you see some "MD" influence in it's design like oval windows for example.

[Daquan13]

Also, Boeing uses the logo that MD had.

[Capt AWACS]

I've flown the -400 on CO many times. When I fly back to Houston from AMS I am often on the -400 AMS-IAH then IAH back to AMS. Nice airplane overall. Never flown Delta's mainly because Delta sucks donkey choad.

Nice pics.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings

[Daquan13]

I've flown the -400 on CO many times. When I fly back to Houston from AMS I am often on the -400 AMS-IAH then IAH back to AMS. Nice airplane overall. Never flown Delta's mainly because Delta sucks donkey choad.

Nice pics.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings



What's wrong with Delta? I flew them in the late '70s to mid '80s and again on my last visit to Vegas. Didn't have any problems with them. I'd fly them again if I have to. Or AMR.

A friend of mine who also flew with me, we decided to stay on the plane during the layover in Dallas because we refuse to be forced into going through that security bullcrap in the gate room!!:rolleyes:

[urbanflyer]

^
You never fly international so you couldn't possibly appreciate the difference. Domestic service is generally the same regardless of the carrier unless you're traveling in J or F.

[Daquan13]

I have no desire to flying on int'l flights.

That's more of a hassle getting through security, is it not? Thus why airlines and airports suggest that you show up at least two hours before your flight leaves the gate.

[The Chemist]

^I've never had any more trouble getting through security for an international flight than I do for a domestic flight.

[Capt AWACS]

THe security is the same for the flights and Continental constantly ranks as the best US carrier for int'l travel (and some for domestic) Delta ranks toward the bottom in customers, and is coming out of bankruptcy.

Flying Delta in the 70s and 80s has no bearing on today. I flew British Caledonian in the 70s and Pan Am. Matters not.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Seven continents down, none to go

[urbanflyer]

There's no additional security for international flights, in fact the security is better to go through I've found because it lacks the chaos of domestic lines. The reason you're asked to come earlier is because check-in lines tend to be longer.

[JMancuso]

i'll stay with continental. by far the best US carrier for domestic and international travel.

[roadwarrior]

i'll stay with continental. by far the best US carrier for domestic and international travel.

I don't see why Continental is so great. Sure, they have free food in coach, but I wouldn't say the quality is great. I'd rather pay $5 for the fresh items that you get. Of these, United has by far the greatest selection and I like their economy plus seats (more legroom). I think they're the best of the major domestic carriers.

[sammyk]

I love Continental. On one of my flights from AUS-EWR (IAH-EWR leg) a 762 had been scheduled but a 764 was subbed. I don't fly much international and the chances of me getting a 764 when I do was slim so I was glad I could cross that one off my list! :D

[terryaki]

I always liked flying on the 767-4 when flying Delta between the Salt Lake hub and LAX. Too bad now, the largest planes you'll get on this route are 757s. One time I flew on the last SLC-LAX flight and nearly the entire rear was empty. It was nice to just sprawl out over all the center seats and have a decent nap.

We see less and less of the 767-4 or for that matter any 767 out of SLC nowadays, they're mostly limited to Atlanta and Hawaii flights. :(

And as for Delta's service, it's not that bad on domestic routes, at least compared with every other US airline. They're making massive changes after emerging from bankruptcy and the only way they can go imo is up in quality. Then again, I've always flown a foreign carrier on international flights so I have no idea.

[RockMont]

That's a beautiful airplane.

[excel]

Sweet aircraft.

[WonderlandPark]

I had the pleasure of riding one LAX-ATL (the plane then went onward elsewhere to Europe while I got a dumpy MD-11 to Rome that had seen much better days)

What a plane and the interior, all open with the stunning curving overhead interior, the signature style, I should have snapped a photo. Really open and airy, even more so than the 777 that I returned on, which had the interior cut into sections. Still sticks in my mind today.

[palemonk]

i'll stay with continental. by far the best US carrier for domestic and international travel.

Continental is not the best carrier. On the last intl flight with them, dinner was nothing more than a turkey sub, and the entertainment system seemed to malfunction sometimes. also, the F/As took forever to serve dinner.

[allamericanatx]

The reason for the food you got (turkey club) was an issue with the caterer, not Continental (CO). The flight attendants were making due with what had been given considering there may not have been anything at all if the caterer had failed completely. They were probably quite embarrassed too and didn't say anything. These things do happen.

Why does Delta suck? I used miles to take my partner to Santiago Chile because I lived there years ago, and he had never been to South Amer. We flew in first, and true to form, Delta was awful. Here's just a partial portion of the story:

We take off and our particular flight attendant took our drink order. The menu had a good list of Whiskey/Bourbons. We asked for a Maker's Mark (on the menu), she said they didn't have that. We pointed to the Crown Royal, she said they didn't have that either. We asked for Johnny Walker, same thing. So then we asked what on the menu they DID have. She said Jack Daniels. Fine, so we took that. We asked if we could have two to start each and she said no to that as well. She said, "You will have one for now. And by the way, I have my eyes on the two of you". We couldn't believe it.

She came by to offer dinner for the overnight flight. Again, she said they only had one of each item left, so we couldn't order the same thing, we had to both order something different. My partner took the pasta with clams (ok, he should have known better) and when it was put in front of him, it looked like the clam was throwing up on the linguini. :slob: The most disgusting stuff was leaking from the clam and it was so nasty, he couldn't even eat around it. He asked for another salad instead, and the F.A. said "I already gave you one before dinner so that's all you've got coming."

That was how the flight went the whole time. Another thing about Delta is that if you do go first (Biz), their seats are narrower than other airlines and you can feel it. Delta has this "oh, so what" attitude.

Part of the problem (you may think I'm crazy, but this is true) are the passengers from Atlanta. Atlanta has a rather snotty population that reminds me of people from Dallas. Very arrogant, and just bitchy. This has a direct impact on your experience as well.

Examples: (SAME FLIGHT as above) a plastic surgery freaky man (not Michael but close enough) spent 30 minutes in the bathroom putting on his makeup so I finally knocked cause I thought he might be dead and I had to pee regardless and there was a line waiting on him....he came out and made a snotty comment to me for knocking. Excuse me Mr Oil of Olay.

One lady ACROSS the aisle told me to bend the page of the magazine I was reading because it made a glare in her face. I did so while thinking "what the hell is she talking about" and one minute later, she said the same thing, "That's not enough, can you move your magazine a little more"....so once again, I did, then one minute later she said "you know, it's still...." I turned to her and said, "Why don't you move your face instead, and stop looking in my direction!" She was blown away, but I was quite done with her. And on, and on, the weirdest flight I have ever had and it was all due to the lack of service and freaky people. Delta was not what I had envisioned them being.

[sammyk]

The reason for the food you got (turkey club) was an issue with the caterer, not Continental (CO). The flight attendants were making due with what had been given considering there may not have been anything at all if the caterer had failed completely. They were probably quite embarrassed too and didn't say anything. These things do happen.


I love Continental but their catering is in house so in a sense you can say CO screwed that up. Then again I'm not sure what location he/she traveled from and there's always a chance it was someone else.

[allamericanatx]

yeah, you've got a point. if the catering was out of IAH then that is a hard one to get around.

speaking of diversions, we get a lot out here because we're close to IAH and DFW. I wonder when we get our next batch coming through. I'll have to run to the airport park to snap some shots when it does happen. :)

[Daquan13]

I truly wish that it would have happened. That more airlines would have ordered them, but there are a very few of these around, since the only buyers were Delta and Continental.

I wonder if this variant is still availible. That is, I wonder if an airline can still order some of them. After all, the -300 is still being made for some airlines. I would assume that THIS one is still possibly an option.

The plane's fuselage is so long that it looks almost like the 777!!

[palemonk]

The reason for the food you got (turkey club) was an issue with the caterer, not Continental (CO). The flight attendants were making due with what had been given considering there may not have been anything at all if the caterer had failed completely. They were probably quite embarrassed too and didn't say anything. These things do happen.

then it was an issue with the caterers at EWR. I know that the caterers in Europe are much better than in the US. my last flight out of Europe was from Madrid, and on that flight I had a lovely chicken with rice dish. but most certainly the entertainment system malfunctioning is continental's issue.

[roadwarrior]

The reason for the food you got (turkey club) was an issue with the caterer, not Continental (CO). The flight attendants were making due with what had been given considering there may not have been anything at all if the caterer had failed completely. They were probably quite embarrassed too and didn't say anything. These things do happen.

Why does Delta suck? I used miles to take my partner to Santiago Chile because I lived there years ago, and he had never been to South Amer. We flew in first, and true to form, Delta was awful. Here's just a partial portion of the story:

We take off and our particular flight attendant took our drink order. The menu had a good list of Whiskey/Bourbons. We asked for a Maker's Mark (on the menu), she said they didn't have that. We pointed to the Crown Royal, she said they didn't have that either. We asked for Johnny Walker, same thing. So then we asked what on the menu they DID have. She said Jack Daniels. Fine, so we took that. We asked if we could have two to start each and she said no to that as well. She said, "You will have one for now. And by the way, I have my eyes on the two of you". We couldn't believe it.

She came by to offer dinner for the overnight flight. Again, she said they only had one of each item left, so we couldn't order the same thing, we had to both order something different. My partner took the pasta with clams (ok, he should have known better) and when it was put in front of him, it looked like the clam was throwing up on the linguini. :slob: The most disgusting stuff was leaking from the clam and it was so nasty, he couldn't even eat around it. He asked for another salad instead, and the F.A. said "I already gave you one before dinner so that's all you've got coming."

That was how the flight went the whole time. Another thing about Delta is that if you do go first (Biz), their seats are narrower than other airlines and you can feel it. Delta has this "oh, so what" attitude.

Part of the problem (you may think I'm crazy, but this is true) are the passengers from Atlanta. Atlanta has a rather snotty population that reminds me of people from Dallas. Very arrogant, and just bitchy. This has a direct impact on your experience as well.

Examples: (SAME FLIGHT as above) a plastic surgery freaky man (not Michael but close enough) spent 30 minutes in the bathroom putting on his makeup so I finally knocked cause I thought he might be dead and I had to pee regardless and there was a line waiting on him....he came out and made a snotty comment to me for knocking. Excuse me Mr Oil of Olay.

One lady ACROSS the aisle told me to bend the page of the magazine I was reading because it made a glare in her face. I did so while thinking "what the hell is she talking about" and one minute later, she said the same thing, "That's not enough, can you move your magazine a little more"....so once again, I did, then one minute later she said "you know, it's still...." I turned to her and said, "Why don't you move your face instead, and stop looking in my direction!" She was blown away, but I was quite done with her. And on, and on, the weirdest flight I have ever had and it was all due to the lack of service and freaky people. Delta was not what I had envisioned them being.

Wow, that doesn't sound good at all. I can't say that my experience was THAT terrible on Delta, but I did feel that it was a little cheap.

I honestly don't know why United gets such a poor rating, when compared to these airlines. Sure, their customer service phone line isn't great and sometimes their check-in agents are rude also, but not worse than other airlines. On the other hand, here is why I think they have a superior flight experience (at least compared to other legacy carriers).

1. Economy Plus - A savvy traveler will select these seats, which encompass about 1/2 of all economy and have about 6 inches more leg room than other carriers.
2. Buy on board meals - United has a better selection, with 4 snack boxes to choose from, along with a fresh sandwich and a salad. Yeah, they do cost $5, but I'd rather pay this than get a soggy cheeseburger that I got on Continental.
3. In flight entertainment - Better selection of radio channels (XM), along with Channel 9 (ATC, so you can track the progress)
4. Free headphones - most, if not all other carriers charge for this
5. Business class - Many 747s, 767s and 777s are utilized on domestic routes and have pretty much international business class seating, with something like 155 degree pitch, to promote better sleeping
6. Premium Service - If you've ever flown to JFK from SFO or LAX, you'll know the difference, but the entire economy cabin is economy plus and the business class is all leather seating, with international business class amenities (superior meals, seat pitch, portable DVD player with 10 DVD's to choose from).
7. Regional Jets - Even these are a cut above, with economy plus as an option, as well as first class.

Once again, with all of this, I'm shocked when they score so low in customer satisfaction ratings, as compared to other airlines. Sure, if you were comparing against Singapore, British Airways, Quantas, Cathay Pacific, etc, United wouldn't stack up, but compared to other legacy domestic carriers, my experience has always been more positive on United.

[Daquan13]

I think just about ALL airlines these days have BOB meals in coach. Flights longer than about 2 hours.

In this case, rather then getting an unwelcomed surprise, I usually like to buy my own lunch or dinner in the terminal, so that I KNOW what I'm going to be eating.

And BTW, United had reconfigured a number of it's 757s for all-premium service from New York to LA, but I don't hear much about this now.

It probably was just another one of their friggen bright ideas gone sour.

[urbanflyer]

^
The transcon P.S. offering is alive and well and has been consistently lauded by business travelers with frequent trips between the coasts. Loads are good and better yet, yields have been strong. There's nothing negative to report about it, really.

[Daquan13]

Except for the fact that if any employee of United wants to stand by for one of those flights, they're gonna be charged a very hefty price to fly on one of them once they're allowed to get on the plane.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I didn't mind United's flight attendants, it was their customer service people on the ground that I disliked. Apparently it was my fault that my plane from LAX to DEN was ten minutes late when I missed my connecting flight to MDW. I'd consider travelling with them on international flights, I've heard the service is much better than their domestics.

And yeah, I think its neat to be able to listen to ATC as one of your radio stations :tup:

[urbanflyer]

Except for the fact that if any employee of United wants to stand by for one of those flights, they're gonna be charged a very hefty price to fly on one of them once they're allowed to get on the plane.

Um not really, the business and first class NRSA ticket prices for P.S. flights are no different than the others. I took two P.S. flights when the service was introduced and didn't pay any more than on similar domestic first class legs. It's international where you start paying a bit more. I used to pay around $100 each way for business or first on standby travel to Asia. The prices may have been revised since I left the company but it shouldn't be by much.

[SEA-TOWN]

Awesome!! Not a new sight here in Seattle though...

[Daquan13]

Except for the fact that if any employee of United wants to stand by for one of those flights, they're gonna be charged a very hefty price to fly on one of them once they're allowed to get on the plane.

Um not really, the business and first class NRSA ticket prices for P.S. flights are no different than the others. I took two P.S. flights when the service was introduced and didn't pay any more than on similar domestic first class legs. It's international where you start paying a bit more. I used to pay around $100 each way for business or first on standby travel to Asia. The prices may have been revised since I left the company but it shouldn't be by much.



Maybe United had implemented that in the beginning, and then had changed it..

I, along with my former coworkers in the dept. that was outsourced, are supposed to have flying benefits for 5 years. But I don't fly with United now.

Last time that I flew with them was to my brother's funeral.