[MarkDaMan]

Ugh, I don't even want to bring this up...

In Phoenix, our pollution was so bad we called the nasty air, in the most loving way, the 'brown cloud'.

http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM107/AirWeBreathe/PhxBrownCloud.jpg

One of the refreshing things about Portland is that we don't really have one. However, in the late summer the air would always get 'hazy' but never brown. The rest of the year the skies were crisp blue.

In the last two years I've noticed, even on windy winter days that the haze never goes away now. I've been meaning to ask if anyone else sees this, and than PDX City-State posted another picture thread and it looks really hazy, yet it is only May.

Are we getting a brown cloud? If so, from what? Pollution from China? Too much congestion? The Threemile Canyon farm and PGE's coal plant just east of the Gorge?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/pdxcitystate/DSC00910.jpg
pic taken by PDX City-State

[NJD]

After 3-4 days of hot weather without much wind we get quite hazy every year, but nothing compared to other cities.

[65MAX]

Haze isn't necessarily pollution, it could just be fog, moisture in the air.
Of course, there's not too much moisture in Phoenix, so they can't claim it's just fog.

[MarkDaMan]

^I get those points, but I can see the brown tint most clear days when I'm standing at Gateway Transit Center looking downtown, not just scorching days anymore. My sunglasses really make the air look dirty, but even with the nekked eye, it just seems our skies are not so clear anymore.

[tworivers]

I know what you mean, Mark. The difference between now and a few years ago seems pronounced. If I had to place a bet, I would say the number one cause is probably China (already proven to be a major reason for the growing amount of mercury in our environment), and the local increase in population and sov's a close second. The air was supposedly a lot dirtier ten or fifteen years ago (I lived here in '96 for a year, but can't really recall), so who knows. Still better than most cities, but the growing impact of Chinese pollution on our lives is scary.

[zilfondel]

Don't forget that a lot of that haze (during the summer and fall months) are heavily contributed by forest fires!

Secondly, our air should be getting a bit cleaner when the new fuel standards and emission standards roll out the next couple of years - ultra low sulfur diesel and such.

Even still, an inversion layer will trap whatever crap is in the air for as long as it lasts - all the lawn mowers, BBQs, cars, trucks, buses, power plants and so on generate enough emissions to be noticeable...

[BrG]

Don't forget that a lot of that haze (during the summer and fall months) are heavily contributed by forest fires!

...


Great point.

[Drew-Ski]

My buddy who works for Phelps Dodge ( Countries largest Mining Company ) says China, is expected to have 2000 more coal burning energy producing plants on-line in the next 20 years. :hell:

[sopdx]

Yep, it's a super duper situation - and our good 'ol corporate government is right in bed with them. As long as China keeps on growing without controls (why should they, we don't) and as long as we have a penchant for cheap plastic shit at Wallmart, it's probably not going to improve.

[tworivers]

Don't forget that a lot of that haze (during the summer and fall months) are heavily contributed by forest fires!

I wonder what the actual air quality data shows. My impression was that our air wasn't generally impacted that much by fires due to the frequency of westerly breezes, the same ones that carry the pollution in from China. I do remember last summer we had an east wind for a few days when there was a massive fire near the Wallowas and the air smelled like burning timber. It was a news story. But I thought the combination of local and trans-ocean pollution, plus the usual summer inversions, contributed far more in the way of "brown cloud".

and our good 'ol corporate government is right in bed with them.

Yes indeed. Mussolini would be proud. Things will be shifting though as we foul the planet on an ever-greater scale.

[sopdx]

Considering that China has polluted up to 75% of their potable water sources and has skyrocketing cancer rates in rural villages gives one pause, what are we breathing.

[PacificNW]

I expect the air pollution coming from China becoming a huge political/health problem in the Far East and North America.

[zilfondel]

I remember last year when you couldn't see across the Willamette River due to the forest fires in eastern oregon... did you forget that the Columbia Gorge blows from the east to west?

[puerco]

The air was supposedly a lot dirtier ten or fifteen years ago (I lived here in '96 for a year, but can't really recall), so who knows. Still better than most cities, but the growing impact of Chinese pollution on our lives is scary.

Portland's air was a lot worse in the '70's than it is now.

[65MAX]

I remember last year when you couldn't see across the Willamette River due to the forest fires in eastern oregon... did you forget that the Columbia Gorge blows from the east to west?

Actually, it blows in both directions, depending on the difference in barometric pressure on both sides of the Cascades and the prevailing winds, but primarily from west to east.

[zilfondel]

^ yea, you're right. I seem to recall the winter easterly winds that blow ice storms down the gorge the most... but we do get a lot of smoke in the valley from the forest fires in souther, central, and eastern oregon. Heck, my parents' house near Salem was almost burned down about 10-15 years ago by a forest fire!

[Chicago3rd]

Makes one miss the old days of field burning....

[65MAX]

^^
They still do that, grass seed is big business in the Willamette Valley.

[dkealoha]

I just flew into New York today and let me tell you... It's not even a brown "cloud" it's a brown EVERYTHING. I couldn't even believe it. It was worse than any brown clouds I've seen in California.

[PacificNW]

:shrug:⬆ "it's not even a brown "cloud" it's brown EVERYTHING. Portland or New York?

[sopdx]

I believe the reference was to NYC, which actually isn't too bad most of the time. It blows out to sea. I remember when I lived there, that on super humid still days, it was horrific.

[Chicago3rd]

^^
They still do that, grass seed is big business in the Willamette Valley.

Yeah it is wild. I remember as a kid going up to Salem right before school and it was unbelievable.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3741/is_n8_v45/ai_19815161

As the valley's population expanded in the 1960s, residents began to complain about the smoke-filled summer air. But it was a tragic accident that set the stage for changing growers' management practices.

"In 1988, smoke from a wildfire - believed to have started when the wind blew burning grass straw out of control - covered Interstate 5 south of Salem, Oregon," says David Nelson, executive secretary of the Oregon Seed Council. "A chain collision resulting in several deaths and injuries mobilized the industry, legislators, and the public to negotiate a phase-down of field-burning."

Before 1991, growers burned up to 250,000 acres per season in the valley. The allowable burned acreage has decreased incrementally since then and will be limited to 40,000 acres, plus up to 25,000 acres of steep terrain as identified by the Oregon director of agriculture.