[Riise]

From today's Metro:

Green party boasting its bravery on climate plan


The Green party wants Canadian drivers to pay an extra 12 cents a litre at the gas pumps as the price of averting environmental “catastrophe.”

Leader Elizabeth May is boasting that her party is the only one politically brave enough to call for carbon taxes that would discourage automobile use and finance other tax cuts that would allow consumers to make smarter environmental choices.

“Right now, the Green Party of Canada is the only Canadian political party prepared to state this obvious reality,” May said yesterday.

“We will use those carbon taxes to reduce taxes elsewhere.”

The Greens leader had harsh words for Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his announced intentions to be a “bridge” between countries that have signed on to the Kyoto air quality accord and the United States, which hasn’t.

“If we stop being with the rest of the world and start siding with George Bush, we are global saboteurs and that’s what Mr. Harper is doing right now in Germany,” May said.

[1ajs]

good for her....... we pay a hell of alot less for petrol then they do in europe still time we get on par...........

[e909]

good for her....... we pay a hell of alot less for petrol then they do in europe still time we get on par...........
Too bad my province is a good chunk of western europe with 1/100th of the population.

Driving is much more of a necessity here.

[vid]

Tax breaks for environmentally friendly companies is a great idea, and corporations will find that they actually make more profits that way.

[vid]

Too bad my province is a good chunk of western europe with 1/100th of the population.

Driving is much more of a necessity here.

In Europe, they have a transportation system called "trains". With "trains", you can carry hundreds of people in one vehicle!

I would support a high speed train linking not only major cities in Alberta, but throughout the rest of the country. It would be quite possible in the prairies, they're flat. Our rail system is pathetically out of date anyway. Even Moldova is ahead of us in rail technology.

[Riise]

Driving is much more of a necessity here.

Only because we have made it so... I think a higher gas tax is part of a larger solution.

[Xelebes]

Yeah, but passenger rail plays second fiddle to freight. It's never fun to take a train that way.

It would help if we had 10x the population, especially in Western Canada. There is a lot of infrastructure to accomodate that (smaller towns and villages, I refer to). But rail is an investment that doesn't make much sense. We don't even have a profitable commuter rail connection between Edmonton and Calgary.

[1ajs]

we need to start going eltric rail... and get rid of the diesil trains

[vid]

It isn't profitable because people are too used to taking cars. Once they get tired of paying 2 bucks a litre, they'll realize that trains make more sense.

[raisethehammer]

And don't forget...higher gas prices and carbon taxes will result in a TON of money coming to the province and feds.
More ability to finally build us good transit systems with all the new loot.

[1ajs]

And don't forget...higher gas prices and carbon taxes will result in a TON of money coming to the province and feds.
More ability to finally build us good transit systems with all the new loot.

TRUE!!!

[malek]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz tax the poor citizens while billions are made in profits by oil companies.

[1ajs]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz tax the poor citizens while billions are made in profits by oil companies.
we already pay 35% tax on fuel

woot 4,666 somthing about 666 i like :P

[waterloowarrior]

Quebec announces carbon tax


Canadian Press
June 6, 2007 at 7:03 PM EDT



QUEBEC CITY — Quebec energy companies will have to pay their share to help cut greenhouse gases as the provincial government announced Wednesday that it will introduce a carbon tax in October.

The tax, believed to be the first of its kind in Canada, will tax 0.8 cents on every litre of gas sold in Quebec and will raise about $200-million a year to finance the province's green plan to reduce greenhouse gases.

The province will also slap a tax of 0.9 cents on each litre of diesel sold.

The plan was created to help Quebec reach its Kyoto protocol targets, which is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 1990 levels by 2012.

All companies that produce greenhouse gases will have to contribute to the fund according to their emission coefficient and oil companies will be on the hook for most of it.

They will pay about $69-million a year for gasoline, $36-million for diesel fuel, and $43-million for heating oil. Natural gas distributors will pay about $39-million while electricity distributor Hydro-Québec will chip in $4.5-million for its thermal energy plant in Tracy, Que.

About 50 companies in total will be affected by the tax.

Natural Resources Minister Claude Bechard said he has no guarantees that companies won't try to pass the tax on to consumers, but hopes that isn't the case.

“I appeal to their sense of social responsibility and their good faith,” Mr. Bechard told a news conference in Quebec City on Wednesday. “Everyone has to do their part. I hope the companies will make the effort to absorb the costs. They have the room to manoeuvre.”

Mr. Bechard says energy producers shouldn't be surprised by the tax because it was announced a year ago.

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070606.wcarbon0606/BNStory/robNews/home

[malek]

that tax is not supposed to raise the price on the liter.

Its a direct tax to the company, the journalist has grossly estimated it at 0.8 cents / litre.

M. Bechard is mad that the margin is at 22 cents right now and can't understand why they companies would send the bill directly to the consumers.

[baggab]

Too bad my province is a good chunk of western europe with 1/100th of the population.

Driving is much more of a necessity here.

Only because everyone "needs" a house with a yard. We don't have or want to create density. So, the only way to change or force people to different lifestyles is in their pocket book.

[SpongeG]

either way the consumer is the one screwed over

maybe consumers need to start acting upon things - companies will only react when they see consumers changing their habits

look at the big scrabble now to get hybrids out there - years ago car companies were all like meh - suddenly hybrid sales sky rocket for honda and toyota and finally the others get on board and scramble to get product on the market

on another issue i don;t know if its true but my brother was saying they did a study and bio diesel puts out 50% more Co2 than regular gas does do all those do gooders are actually doing no better in their bio diesel cars

[Xelebes]

I think he's also taking about the several towns under 50 000 that are several kilometres away from the next town.

Edit: I'm betting in five years, pick-up trucks will start using six-stroke engines instead of four. Bless steam and the added horsepower it gives.

[SpongeG]

if you look back at the late 1800's and early 1900's before cars took over many small towns had trains and street cars

even moosejaw had a streetcar

[1ajs]

^^ there were alway 28,000 eltric cars witch outnumber internal combustion......... then ford came alaong and that changed

[niwell]

More taxes on gas, especially if they go to public transit! Including better regional train service.

I'd also accept an engine tax like in Japan, where engines greater than a certain size are taxed. Preferably combined with more gas taxes.

[Riise]

More taxes on gas, especially if they go to public transit! Including better regional train service.

I'd also accept an engine tax like in Japan, where engines greater than a certain size are taxed. Preferably combined with more gas taxes.

An engine tax eh? That sounds pretty interesting, I'm going to look into that. Cheers for the heads-up!

[SpongeG]

there already is a tax in Canada on SUV's and big trucks

[malek]

More taxes on gas, especially if they go to public transit! Including better regional train service.

I'd also accept an engine tax like in Japan, where engines greater than a certain size are taxed. Preferably combined with more gas taxes.

it already exists, here in quebec, the plate renewal costs you more if your engine is bigger than 3.0L, it increases gradually with engine size.

and tax gaz for public transit? that too exists, but I am not too fond on raising it more since there's no accountability, and looks like it serves on raising unionized salaries more than offering increased services.

[habsfan]

there already is a tax in Canada on SUV's and big trucks


it already exists, here in quebec, the plate renewal costs you more if your engine is bigger than 3.0L, it increases gradually with engine size.


Looks like it isn't enough. I say tax the shit out of SUV's, they are completely useless!

I can understand that many of us need our cars to get around, go to work, go shopping etc.etc.etc. but how many people who own an SUV, actually NEED an SUV??? If they need the space, why not buy a station Wagon. There are some very sporty station wagons out there. If they don't like those, why not a minivan??? They have more room than SUV's and consume less.

[The Kid]

I guess I'll be the only one to post an opposing view on more taxes.

Does everyone really trust the Green Party to raise taxes on gas while reducing taxes in other areas. Give me a break. The Greens are all about taxes. They will just raise taxes on gas and keep (if not also raise) the taxes on everything else.

I for one have no choice but to drive. I am sales agent and have to travel the entire province of Alberta extensively. How I am going to to that with all these non-existant trains everybody is dreaming about? And how do I get to all of my accounts once I have arrived in each area by these fantasy trains carrying loads of samples?

Trains (except freight) going all over the place will not be a reality in Canada, and especially western Canada for a very long time, if at all in my lifetime.

The Greens are never going to govern this country anyway so any topic is fantasy in relation to what they will or won't do.

[malek]

luxury sedans consume as much or even more than SUVs, should we ban those too ?

[habsfan]

luxury sedans consume as much or even more than SUVs, should we ban those too ?

I never said we should ban them, but TAX them even more!

You wanna buy a gas guzzling BMW M5. Fine go ahead, but you should expect to pay an extra 20,000$ in an engine tax. If you can afford a 150,000$ car, what's an extra 20,000$???!!

[kirjtc2]

It isn't profitable because people are too used to taking cars. Once they get tired of paying 2 bucks a litre, they'll realize that trains make more sense.

Good luck. They tore up every last rail line leading into and out of my hometown years ago.

[malek]

how about sporty cars, do people all need 150hp+ engines in their cars?

[240glt]

Does everyone really trust the Green Party to raise taxes on gas while reducing taxes in other areas. Give me a break. The Greens are all about taxes. They will just raise taxes on gas and keep (if not also raise) the taxes on everything else

You should actually read the Green Party platform before making accusations like that.

I for one have no choice but to drive

Bullshit. Just like the lady in the Calgary Herald letters page claiming she had "no choice" but to drive a minivan because she has three kids. Everything you do is a choice. You CHOOSE to have a job that requires you to drive. Don't offload that responsibility.

The Greens are never going to govern this country anyway so any topic is fantasy in relation to what they will or won't do.

That is a very short sighted attitude. The Greens may not govern in the near future but they could potentially have a say in Parliament. Considering the Cons are sitting at 32% support and have yet to break the 36% support mark (and probably never will), the Liberals are in a mess with a lame duck leader, many see the NDP as a party of wierdos and hippies, an environmentally concious, fiscally conservative, socially liberal party may be what many people are looking for.

[Mister F]

I would support a high speed train linking not only major cities in Alberta, but throughout the rest of the country. It would be quite possible in the prairies, they're flat. Our rail system is pathetically out of date anyway. Even Moldova is ahead of us in rail technology.
Interesting point - the prairies are sparsely populated but they're cheap and easy to build on. That's why when the CPR was built in the 1800s they got across the Prairies in no time. And it's why all the major highways are 4 lanes despite having lower volumes than a lot of 2-lane highways in Ontario. Building enough new track to ensure that passenger trains travel at decent speeds and don't get stuck behind freight trains shouldn't exactly be difficult or expensive. There's no reason that there can't be decent rail connecting Edmonton and Calgary or Saskatoon and Regina, at least.

[chuber]

Wow, I can't believe how many people here are so tax happy! And how many people are obviously not auto enthusiasts!

Rather than tax the hell out of all new cars that have any amount of power or are bigger than a civic, how about some strict emission test on all cars over a certain age (say 10 years)? And some expensive fees to keep those cars on the road.

Most 10 year old cars pollute more than a brand new full size suv. Besides, taxing all the new cars will only make more people continue to drive their (often) unroadworthy, polluting old cars longer. How is that going to help the environment? The country will be covered with old cars spewing smoke out their tailpipes if they aren't broken down on the side of the road. Yeah!


And for the people so against SUV's, are you people completely against camping in trailers? Because virtually every car on the market is incapable of towing even a tent trailer, and most minivans can't even town very much. What are people supposed to pull their trailers with?

[Bassic Lab]

Wow, I can't believe how many people here are so tax happy! And how many people are obviously not auto enthusiasts!

Rather than tax the hell out of all new cars that have any amount of power or are bigger than a civic, how about some strict emission test on all cars over a certain age (say 10 years)? And some expensive fees to keep those cars on the road.

Most 10 year old cars pollute more than a brand new full size suv. Besides, taxing all the new cars will only make more people continue to drive their (often) unroadworthy, polluting old cars longer. How is that going to help the environment? The country will be covered with old cars spewing smoke out their tailpipes if they aren't broken down on the side of the road. Yeah!


And for the people so against SUV's, are you people completely against camping in trailers? Because virtually every car on the market is incapable of towing even a tent trailer, and most minivans can't even town very much. What are people supposed to pull their trailers with?

Older vehicles could be penalised with registration fees that reflect their effect on the enviroment.

You're also talking about pollution which causes smog, not carbon emmisions that cause global warming. Modern trucks and SUVs might have cleaner exhausts than older cars but they still use more gas and produce more CO2.

[MTLskyline]

This topic makes Jeremy Clarkson very very sad.

Agree with you 100% chuber. I think a major problem is there are lot of really old cars (10 years and up) that are still on the roads. Not only do these vehicles get lousy fuel economy, but they also are less safe.

I know GM is doing a promotion where you can trade in your old car, and get $1000 off the price of a new GM.

[malek]

i'm with chuber 100%.

[93JC]

Considering the Cons are sitting at 32% support and have yet to break the 36% support mark (and probably never will), the Liberals are in a mess with a lame duck leader, many see the NDP as a party of wierdos and hippies, an environmentally concious, fiscally conservative, socially liberal party may be what many people are looking for.

Only problem is the Greens are not fiscally conservative, and their social policy varies from issue to issue (in the case of automobiles they're about as socially authoritarian as possible).

If they were fiscal conservatives they wouldn't propose egregious new taxes and if they were really socially liberally they wouldn't pursue aggressive anti-automobile policies. :D

I for one think they're roughly speaking the same sort as the NDP: as you so eloquently pointed out, "a party of weirdos and hippies". :haha:





I also think the vast majority of the ideas thrown about in this thread are terrible. Bassic Lab said above: "Older vehicles could be penalised with registration fees that reflect their effect on the enviroment. "

Wrong. Utterly wrong. Don't penalise: incentivise. Raise incentives under the eco-auto program. Give people who buy compact cars a couple thou.

[Bassic Lab]

Only problem is the Greens are not fiscally conservative, and their social policy varies from issue to issue (in the case of automobiles they're about as socially authoritarian as possible).

If they were fiscal conservatives they wouldn't propose egregious new taxes and if they were really socially liberally they wouldn't pursue aggressive anti-automobile policies. :D

I for one think they're roughly speaking the same sort as the NDP: as you so eloquently pointed out, "a party of weirdos and hippies". :haha:





I also think the vast majority of the ideas thrown about in this thread are terrible. Bassic Lab said above: "Older vehicles could be penalised with registration fees that reflect their effect on the enviroment. "

Wrong. Utterly wrong. Don't penalise: incentivise. Raise incentives under the eco-auto program. Give people who buy compact cars a couple thou.

How do you propose we pay for incentives if not through taxes? I guess we can just pay non-smokers to refrain from the habit instead of taxing cigarettes. Wouldn't that be a great world where the government just gives and gives from some magical stockpile of money that no one ever needs to pay for.

Not paying a tax is an incentive. The tax structure can be changed while remaining revenue neutral.

[Mister F]

If they were fiscal conservatives they wouldn't propose egregious new taxes and if they were really socially liberally they wouldn't pursue aggressive anti-automobile policies.
they aren't proposing egregious new taxes, they're proposing moving tax load from one place to another. It's an incentive to be more environmentally friendly and reduces the penalty for making money (income taxes). I don't see how anyone could be opposed to that.

[The Kid]

You should actually read the Green Party platform before making accusations like that.



Bullshit. Just like the lady in the Calgary Herald letters page claiming she had "no choice" but to drive a minivan because she has three kids. Everything you do is a choice. You CHOOSE to have a job that requires you to drive. Don't offload that responsibility.



That is a very short sighted attitude. The Greens may not govern in the near future but they could potentially have a say in Parliament. Considering the Cons are sitting at 32% support and have yet to break the 36% support mark (and probably never will), the Liberals are in a mess with a lame duck leader, many see the NDP as a party of wierdos and hippies, an environmentally concious, fiscally conservative, socially liberal party may be what many people are looking for.

Hey, let me know when you return from Wonderland. The Greens will NEVER govern in Canada, thank god. It's not short sighted, it's a reality which you are obviously oblivious to.

As far as my job is concerned, it's really none of your business how I CHOOSE to pay my bills. I was pointing out the fact that many people, including myself, rely on their vehicles to support their family and shouldn't have to pay additional taxes to simply make their living. All of the jobs aren't just a hop, skip and a jump (or train that doesn't exist) away. I pay enough taxes thank you very much.

And as far as the Greens being just what people are looking for, are you crazy, no matter where the Conservatives or Liberals are in the polls, the Greens are hanging in the basement with the NDP.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

[93JC]

I guess we can just pay non-smokers to refrain from the habit instead of taxing cigarettes.

Did cigarette taxes stop smoking?


I don't disagree with your point, it is a drain on the system. But I guarantee it will provide better results than a tax on new cars, and especially a tax on old cars. People who own old beaters do so out of necessity, not because they really want an '86 Tempo. If you tax the shite out of these owners they're not going to buy a new car: they're going to be out of a job. Congratulations, you just raised unemployment! Yay! :D

they aren't proposing egregious new taxes, they're proposing moving tax load from one place to another. It's an incentive to be more environmentally friendly and reduces the penalty for making money (income taxes). I don't see how anyone could be opposed to that.

The Kid summed it up nicely:

Does everyone really trust the Green Party to raise taxes on gas while reducing taxes in other areas. Give me a break. The Greens are all about taxes. They will just raise taxes on gas and keep (if not also raise) the taxes on everything else.

I'd watch An Inconvenient Truth, without complaint, if the Greens lowered income taxes. Hell I'd by a compact fluorescent light bulb if they lowered any tax.

They're all disaffected dippers with a green bent. And if there's one thing the NDP knows best, it's raising taxes. :yes:

[240glt]

Hey, let me know when you return from Wonderland

I thought you were the one living in Calgary :haha: :haha:

As far as my job is concerned, it's really none of your business how I CHOOSE to pay my bills

Correct... your choice.

And as far as the Greens being just what people are looking for, are you crazy, no matter where the Conservatives or Liberals are in the polls, the Greens are hanging in the basement with the NDP

We'll see... One only has to look to several European countries to realize that your statement only reflects your opinion, not fact.

[Bassic Lab]

Did cigarette taxes stop smoking?


I don't disagree with your point, it is a drain on the system. But I guarantee it will provide better results than a tax on new cars, and especially a tax on old cars. People who own old beaters do so out of necessity, not because they really want an '86 Tempo. If you tax the shite out of these owners they're not going to buy a new car: they're going to be out of a job. Congratulations, you just raised unemployment! Yay! :D



The Kid summed it up nicely:



I'd watch An Inconvenient Truth, without complaint, if the Greens lowered income taxes. Hell I'd by a compact fluorescent light bulb if they lowered any tax.

They're all disaffected dippers with a green bent. And if there's one thing the NDP knows best, it's raising taxes. :yes:

Lots of people manage to make it to work with out a car. If someone can not afford the costs associated with automobile ownership (including those associated with the enviromental impact along with the required infrastructure) then they can simply take the bus or walk. I'm not interested in subsidizing the destruction of the enviroment.

The Greens are not disaffected New Democrats in this country, they are a liberal party much like the Tories and Liberals. The party likewise draws much of its strength from those two parties.

[93JC]

Lots of people manage to make it to work with out a car.

Lots don't. Lots can't.

If someone can not afford the costs associated with automobile ownership (including those associated with the enviromental impact along with the required infrastructure) then they can simply take the bus or walk.

What bus? And what do you mean 'walk'? What about the people living in buttfuck nowhere. What about the people who NEED a car FOR their work, and couldn't work without one?

Like I said, congratulations, you raised unemployment.

I'm not interested in subsidizing the destruction of the enviroment.

Not interested in many peoples' livelihoods too, it seems.

The Greens are not disaffected New Democrats in this country, they are a liberal party much like the Tories and Liberals. The party likewise draws much of its strength from those two parties.

If it walks like a dipper, talks like a dipper... smells like a hippie... Well, you know where I'm going with this. :D

[Mister F]

^I see you have more interest in useless rhetoric than actual debate :rolleyes: What makes you think that one of the central planks of the Green party platform is a lie? What do you have to base that on? You have absolutely nothing to back up your argument.

[vid]

"They're all disaffected dippers with a green bent."

Actually, most people that have switched to the Green party, notably Boris and I, are former Progressive Conservatives. If you took a few minutes to read their platform, you'd know they're more conservative than even the Liberals, save for their environmental policies.

Here, I'll save your three seconds of having to google something by posting the direct link:

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/lp

The menu is on the right.

[jawagord]

A eunuch could come up with a better proposal than this weak effort from Canada's green party. 12 cent tax will do nothing to curb consumption. A real greenie would be adding double or triple this amount every year until the price of gasoline hits $4 or $5 a litre. Increasing the tax 30 cents a year for 10 years would be a ballsey proposal. Heck, Joe Clark proposed a bigger tax increase than this 28 years ago.


From today's Metro:

Green party boasting its bravery on climate plan


The Green party wants Canadian drivers to pay an extra 12 cents a litre at the gas pumps as the price of averting environmental “catastrophe.”

Leader Elizabeth May is boasting that her party is the only one politically brave enough to call for carbon taxes that would discourage automobile use and finance other tax cuts that would allow consumers to make smarter environmental choices.

“Right now, the Green Party of Canada is the only Canadian political party prepared to state this obvious reality,” May said yesterday.

“We will use those carbon taxes to reduce taxes elsewhere.”

The Greens leader had harsh words for Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his announced intentions to be a “bridge” between countries that have signed on to the Kyoto air quality accord and the United States, which hasn’t.

“If we stop being with the rest of the world and start siding with George Bush, we are global saboteurs and that’s what Mr. Harper is doing right now in Germany,” May said.

[The Kid]

I thought you were the one living in Calgary :haha: :haha:



Correct... your choice.



We'll see... One only has to look to several European countries to realize that your statement only reflects your opinion, not fact.

Ofcourse, when all else fails, take a swipe at Calgary which does nothing to further your point of view. You are probably just GREEN with envy.

That's right, it is MY choice how and where I want to work. And my work generates it's fair share of taxes and stimulates the econonmy all over the province with all of the services, food and hotels that I pay for in many communities while being able to write off only a portion of these expenses. I didn't realize one of the Greens platforms was to mandate where we are all allowed to work. It's sort of sounding a bit like Communism which has worked so well all over the world.

As far as your European countries going green, ya, I see how they caved like a cheap tent in the face of U.S. pressure over at the G8 summit in regards to tough controls on greenhouse gases. By the way, you may want to look at how many coal fired plants are under construction or planned in Germany as they move away from nuclear in the next 20 years. The only reason Germany was able to show emmission cuts was due to the fact that when they absorbed East Germany, they were forced to close most of East Germanys manufacturing plants due to the fact that they were obsolete and ancient and couldn't compete with the other industrialized nations. I was living there when East Germany was turned over to West Germany and saw firsthand how they had to basically shut down everything in East Germany and started over.

I am not losing any sleep over the prospect of the Greens coming to power in Canada. They will just remain a fringe party and can say whatever they want knowing full well they will never have the power to implement any of their ridiculous ideas.

By the way, are you enjoying the prosperity in Alberta over the past ten years or so. If so, you can thank oil and gas!

[240glt]

Ofcourse, when all else fails, take a swipe at Calgary ... You are probably just GREEN with envy.


Oh don't be so sensitive kid! It was a great zinger, admit it!:tup:

I really don't care how you make your money, or how good you are at paying your taxes. Most people are good at that.

You still don't seem to understand the Green Party Platform, someone linked to it above.

I'm not a Green Party member, I don't like Elizabeth May and some of their policies. I don't like that they parachuted people into every corner of Canada just so they could say they ran in every riding.

By the way, are you enjoying the prosperity in Alberta over the past ten years or so. If so, you can thank oil and gas!

I've only been here for 7 years, but it's pretty hard not to notice what drives the economy around here... I don't work in the industry, but my tenure here has been good: a house in Edmonton, a condo in Calgary and land in the Kootenays with cash to spare. BUT, am I not allowed to enjoy prosperity and still be environmentally concious ? That sounds a tad fascist of you!

[The Kid]

Oh don't be so sensitive kid! It was a great zinger, admit it!:tup:

I really don't care how you make your money, or how good you are at paying your taxes. Most people are good at that.

You still don't seem to understand the Green Party Platform, someone linked to it above.

I'm not a Green Party member, I don't like Elizabeth May and some of their policies. I don't like that they parachuted people into every corner of Canada just so they could say they ran in every riding.



I've only been here for 7 years, but it's pretty hard not to notice what drives the economy around here... I don't work in the industry, but my tenure here has been good: a house in Edmonton, a condo in Calgary and land in the Kootenays with cash to spare. BUT, am I not allowed to enjoy prosperity and still be environmentally concious ? That sounds a tad fascist of you!

240glt, I still love you and am happy that we agree to disagree!

And believe it or not, I'm not a climate change denier. I believe we need to be doing much better than we are doing but what drives me crazy is people thinking we are gonna be able to achieve totally unrealistic goals overnight. May I remind everyone that the Liberals did nothing, and I mean zero, after 12 or 13 years in power. We need to start making the appropriate changes with a little common sense so we don't completely devastate the economy, creating massive unemployment and thus creating a much bigger problem. People are not going to give a rats ass about global warming if they cannot get a job or feed their families. I simply don't believe we can tax our way out of the current mess. All sectors of business, industry and the government have to work together to get this done, not as enemies, but as constructive partners working towards a common goal.

As far as the Green partys platform, I have read it and think I understand it. I choose to read between the lines of what they state their platform is and I read "enviroment trumps all and be damed if you don't agree." I really don't trust any party totally on tax policy, especially the Greens or the NDP, saying they will raise taxes in one area while cutting in other areas. Ya, I'm sure.

Anyways, it was nice chatting with you, now you must excuse me as I must get over to the "Earth is Flat" forum where some people actually think it is round. Can you believe that?:haha:

[vid]

THey're better than the conservatives. "We won't be taxing income trusts" Yeah, sure.

You try living on 204$ a month when you're 72, Harper. Go ahead! That's what your party stands for, can't be too bad? Senior Poverty: A part of Stephen Harper's Legacy! :tup: