[Wooster]

Here is a thread for developments and updates for one of Calgary's biggest ever urban development projects - Ramsay Exchange. It is being developed by Torode, who seems to own half the inner city now.

Reading through the 160 page development plan, it is clear that this project is extremely well thought out and has all the elements including high density, quality design, heritage preservation, etc that that will make it a complete community and a model for others down the line. Its detail about how it lives up to things like Calgary's triple bottom line objectives is amazing. I hope other big projects like Remington's Railtown live up to this quality of planning.

Here are some of the images from the development plan, all found on this website:

http://www.ramsayexchange.com/

The site plan:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay14.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/ramsay2.jpg

[Kevin_foster]

Im trying to picture where this is.... but irregardless it's hot...!

[Riise]

With this project the more I see the more I like! Looking at some of the images Josh was so kind to post, one thing that stands out is the diversity of buildings. By this I mean not just different types of styles spread throughout the entire project but variation in projects found on the same block, it brings that organic nature that I think is important. This goes in direct contrast to what some other projects of this type have done, namely Waterfront. This is one of projects that I really want to see completed.

[mersar]

Location is just SE of the Stampede grounds by the Water Centre.

Overall I very much like the plan, took a quick look through some of the stuff and it is quite impressive and well put together.

[Boris2k7]

Im trying to picture where this is.... but irregardless it's hot...!

See the warehouses in about the middle of the pic...

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9726/panoskyline2zp6.jpg

The location (on a map) is just southeast of the Stampede Grounds on the East side of the Elbow river, and just up on top of the escarpment. It is in the Manchester North Industrial Area.

[Wooster]

one thing that stands out is the diversity of buildings.

I completely agree. With planning a whole urban neighbourhood I think this is really key. It will provide different housing types for the needs of different types of people. It certainly makes it more interesting that simply 10 highrises on two storey podiums. I just hope, like it claims that there will be a broad spectrum of prices for units.

[Boris2k7]

I have to say, If there's anything I am particularly impressed with, it's the development package itself. Torode obviously knows what people want to see and he's willing to put out the goods. It is very comprehensive, covering everything you need to know about transportation, land uses, walkability... heck, they even throw in the CPAG Pre-App Assessment and the proposed amendments to the Ramsay ARP.

EDIT: Something else that catches my eye, they have a proposed LRT line in there that is the exact same alignment as the one my urban studies team proposed.

DOUBLE EDIT: Except that it looks like in this case they want that to be the actual SE LRT alignment... as opposed to being a spur line.

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/7748/retranyg9.jpg

[niwell]

The more I look at this the more I think it's an amazing plan. Hopefully it will serve as a catalyst for rejuvination of the area as well, as there are some very non-intensive industrial uses nearby that could stand redevelopment.

[Doug]

My only concern is that the design tunrs its back on the CPR right of way that fronts 25th Avenue. Sure, Torode doesn't own this land, but the project should at least consider that this parcel will eventually be developed as well. Other than that, this is easily the most exciting project in the city.

[tokama]

Very impressive. Hopefully Torode can make this area work and we will see more of this type of urban design.

I love the work/live flats. Very unique to Calgary at this time.

[Kevin_foster]

This is what HAVE should be in place of sprawl.

People need to be educated, and our cities need to BE this - not just packets here and there.

Same thing as Century Park in Edmonton (http://centurypark.ca/ - now on tower 2 ;)) - it's very nice, communal, but instead of wasting vacancies on those 4,000 new 2k square ft. homes in NE and SE Edmonton - 5 or 6 of these woulda worked so much better :)

[Claeren]

The most impressive aspect in my mind is that it is a private development plan. Both Garrison Woods (I believe) and The Bridges had a guiding government role and they are the most comparable in my mind.

Not sure how it fits with the rest of what is going on in the city though. It might be a little too far outside the core proximity of the core to be developed in the immediate term. I have a gut feeling it is not going to happen until the next cycle in like 15 years... but who knows....

[Zilla]

My only concern is that the design tunrs its back on the CPR right of way that fronts 25th Avenue. Sure, Torode doesn't own this land, but the project should at least consider that this parcel will eventually be developed as well. Other than that, this is easily the most exciting project in the city.

The land you refer to belongs to the Stampede and is in their plans as 'back of house' operations. Not likely to be very urban. It will be an odd pairing.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Does anybody else see a similarity between this and Toronto's Distillery District? Very laudable, for sure.

[e909]

I lived in Ramsay for a year when I was younger. This looks amazing, and hopefully it will bring some life back to a hurting neighborhood.

[WhipperSnapper]

My only concern is that the design tunrs its back on the CPR right of way that fronts 25th Avenue.

don't know about that as I'm pretty sure I see road allowances on the site plan

[Habanero]

Beautiful project IMO

[CMD UW]

Probably one of Calgary's best infill / redevelopment proposals. Great to see.

Actually, the Ramsay project was advertised in the March 07 Urban Land Institute (ULI) magazine.

Who are the consultants (urban designer, architect, landscape)?

[Innersoul1]

What is Torode thinking on a timeline for this project?

[Caesar555]

Very cool, a big step up for Calgary.

[AB Born]

Wow, imagine if this were to happen in the East Village, that would be something!

[HomeInMyShoes]

don't know about that as I'm pretty sure I see road allowances on the site plan

Yep, I'm seeing three very easy options for integration at a later point which are just covered with landscaping in the drawing.

:tup: to the developers. I hope the mix of architectural styles, building materials and income levels remains in tact. It's got great potential.

[DizzyEdge]

What is Torode thinking on a timeline for this project?

6 stages spanning 2008-2017

[Claeren]

6 stages spanning 2008-2017

Source? Inside?

Any other important info?

[Boris2k7]

Source? Inside?

Any other important info?

It's right in the planning document on the Ramsay Exchange site. Section 10.0 Phasing and Growth Management, p.125-133

http://www.ramsayexchange.com/pdf/RamsayPlanJune07.pdf

[Claeren]

^ Cool, thanks....


Does anyone know how frequently trains run on that line of track along the side of the property?



Claeren.

[Boris2k7]

The one to the east? That is the main CPR line that heads northeast after 42nd Avenue. Used a few times a day. There are other spur lines through the Central Industrial area that are used less, but that one is almost always going to be in use. Living in the south part of the city, I can guesstimate that the trains really only come through 2 or 3 times per day.

[Claeren]

hhhmmm.... interesting.

Is it used at night at all?

[Boris2k7]

I don't think so, but I can't say I'm sure. My impression was that trains only ran through the city during daylight hours.

[niko]

There is a northbound train that runs thru around 12:30 AM.

[Coldrsx]

excellent looking project!

[Just Build It]

There is a northbound train that runs thru around 12:30 AM.

I used to live beside train tracks for several years and my experience is that you get used to the noise quite quickly. After a while you forget that it there.

[Claeren]

I used to live beside train tracks for several years and my experience is that you get used to the noise quite quickly. After a while you forget that it there.

I guess.... but i am guessing you didn't pay $400,000+ (probably a lot of '+' too) for your place at the time?

If someone is spending half a million dollars for a small'sh condo i am guessing they chose 'no trains' versus 'getting used to the noise', given the choice.




Claeren.

[DizzyEdge]

I guess.... but i am guessing you didn't pay $400,000+ (probably a lot of '+' too) for your place at the time?

If someone is spending half a million dollars for a small'sh condo i am guessing they chose 'no trains' versus 'getting used to the noise', given the choice.




Claeren.

When I was shopping for a house I looked at a house that was just 3 or 4 empty lots from where the train crosses spiller road just south of 9th avenue. I hung around the place as I could see a train in the distance and opened the bedroom window.. the trains tend to go quite slow through Ramsay, and I determined that the noise would be unlikely to wake me up

[tarapoto]

Im trying to picture where this is.... but irregardless it's hot...!

hate to bring it up but seriously...still not a word

[Rusty van Reddick]

hate to bring it up but seriously...still not a word

Get ready to get flamed for being a "grammar nazi"....

[Bigtime]

I have a friend that always gets drunk and uses the word irregardless just for kicks. He also makes sure to really stretch it out as he says it to highlight how ridiculous it sounds! :haha:

[Claeren]

I realize it is not a proper dictionary word, and have been called-out for using it myself, but really - when a word has been in usage for ~100 years and people know what it means it IS a real word. Sure the roots are contradictory, but that is just the way it goes sometimes.



Claeren.

[Boris2k7]

uhhh, the problem in my view is not whether or not it is a word (though I do dislike it) but that the way people use it is totally illogical. Irregardless = opp. of regardless = regard for. In other words, irregardless is a double negative, making its use totally redundant.

[Bigtime]

uhhh, the problem in my view is not whether or not it is a word (though I do dislike it) but that the way people use it is totally illogical. Irregardless = opp. of regardless = regard for. In other words, irregardless is a double negative, making its use totally redundant.

Well irregardless of your comment Boris...:cool:

I had to, sorry!

[chuber]

6 stages spanning 2008-2017

While I think the project looks amazing, I sure wouldn't want to be one of the first people moving into in project and having to spend 9+ years dealing with all the construction around me. But if/when they finish it, it will be very desireable.

[Claeren]

uhhh, the problem in my view is not whether or not it is a word (though I do dislike it) but that the way people use it is totally illogical. Irregardless = opp. of regardless = regard for. In other words, irregardless is a double negative, making its use totally redundant.

See, i have always used it in a slightly different way than as the opposite of regardless. I would say irregardless when i am making a point beyond any of the points being discussed whereas i would use regardless if i was more directly dismissing something in question.

"Irregardless of anything said thus far, i feel that..."

"Regardless of your thoughts on the matter, this is the way it is..."

Similar to the way i seperate 'inquiry' (specific) from 'enquiry' (general) - another much debated word set.


OBVIOUSLY its use is illogical based on root words. The larger question is whether the ancient roots of words are the end all of speech or whether words can change, adapt and evolve independent of those roots into the future.



Claeren.

[Rusty van Reddick]

"Irregardless" is illiterate usage. It is NOT a valid word. Stop using it.

The grammar police have bowed to the use of "flammable" in place of "inflammable" because lives depend on clear understanding of that term (people thought "inflammable" meant "does not burn," which is of course exactly wrong) but there is no such imperative for allowing the sheer stupidity of "irregardless" from being accepted. It is not. This is not a matter of debate, as with dangling prepositions and split infinitives (both of which ARE PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE). "Irregardless" is verboten.

[Claeren]

"Irregardless" is illiterate usage. It is NOT a valid word. Stop using it.

The grammar police have bowed to the use of "flammable" in place of "inflammable" because lives depend on clear understanding of that term (people thought "inflammable" meant "does not burn," which is of course exactly wrong) but there is no such imperative for allowing the sheer stupidity of "irregardless" from being accepted. It is not. This is not a matter of debate, as with dangling prepositions and split infinitives (both of which ARE PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE). "Irregardless" is verboten.

I would be interested to know, if you asked 100 people on the street the meaning of irregardless how many would correctly identify that it was not a word?

Just because you say it is not a word, the dictionary says it is not a word, and it is not academically a word yet - does not mean it cannot be used or that it will not become a word. Language (despite attempts by language nazi's like yourself) is just not that static.

The white, educated, anglo-saxon elite do not have control over language any more than rappers on MTV or newfies in the Atlantic provinces.

Frankly, I am surprised you are so rigid. If all others held on to things that were considered universal truths as firmly as you did you could not enjoy the lifestyle that you do today.

Would i use it in an acedmic paper? No. Can i use it in casual convo with friends or on the intArwEb? Hell yes.




Claeren.

[davee930]

See the warehouses in about the middle of the pic...

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9726/panoskyline2zp6.jpg

The location (on a map) is just southeast of the Stampede Grounds on the East side of the Elbow river, and just up on top of the escarpment. It is in the Manchester North Industrial Area.

i love that view so much its the perfect postcard.

[YYCguys]

I like the concept plan A LOT! This will do well to kickstart improvements to the whole neighborhood!

What do you think the Blue Whale warehouse could be repurposed into? Farmer's Market perhaps?

It would be nice to see a connection to the project from 25th Avenue, so that there is connection from all 4 sides. Wonder what the City has in store for that bit of land between 25th Ave and the southern boundary of Ramsay Exchange.

[MichaelS]

It would be nice to see a connection to the project from 25th Avenue, so that there is connection from all 4 sides. Wonder what the City has in store for that bit of land between 25th Ave and the southern boundary of Ramsay Exchange.

That piece of land is owned by the Calgary Stampede. I think the plan is for them to just use it as a storage or staging area.

[Ramsayfarian]

Small bit of news to bring this thread back from the dead.

There's a for lease sign on the south side of the Blue Whale. Plains' new space must be close to being ready.

[frinkprof]

Ramsayfarian, you've said before that you're generally against this project. I'd be interested to hear why.

[Ramsayfarian]

Ramsayfarian, you've said before that you're generally against this project. I'd be interested to hear why.

Pure and simple, I'm a nimby on this one, or actually a nimfy. As in Not In My Front Yard. I live directly across the street from this project and I don't want to endure the 9-10 years of construction. The first little bit of construction was a major pain, I can't imagine how these folks will manage a larger project.

Besides the construction, I simply don't want 5000+ people living across from me. I've lived in Ramsay for just over 12 years now (before Ramsay or Inglewood were cool), my first house was in Ramsay. I love Ramsay, it's like living in a small town located in a big city. There's a great sense of community in Ramsay, and I feel that 5000 mouth breathing yuppies will destroy all that with their inflated sense of self-entitlement. Yes, I know that's a generalization. Not all yuppies breath through their mouths.

I know one can't stop progress, however, I think this economic downturn has slowed it down quite a bit.

[Bigtime]

Interesting points, definitely agree that Ramsay Exchange is going to be an even longer time coming now.

[frinkprof]

Ramsayfarian: I commend you for admitting the NIMB(F)Y sentiment. It's easy to condemn NIMBYism when there isn't all the construction and people moving in right across the street from you. Certainly the people near the Strategic on 4th site will be understandably guarded about future developments given what has gone on there.

One thing though. With regard to the entitlement remark, could it not be said that current residents/community groups also have some of this "sense of self-entitlement" about their community remaining the way it is?

[Ramsayfarian]

Ramsayfarian: I commend you for admitting the NIMB(F)Y sentiment. It's easy to condemn NIMBYism when there isn't all the construction and people moving in right across the street from you. Certainly the people near the Strategic on 4th site will be understandably guarded about future developments given what has gone on there.

One thing though. With regard to the entitlement remark, could it not be said that current residents/community groups also have some of this "sense of self-entitlement" about their community remaining the way it is?

It's very easy to condemn NIMBYism when it doesn't affect you directly. Even easier when one is still living with their parents and have zero equity.


Not sure if that would be an entitlement or not, as I don't think of it as a right nor do I think it's something I deserve because of who I am.

Eventually this project will happen, there's nothing I can do about it and I accept that.

Initially when this project was announced, my neighbours thought it was the best thing since slice bread, and couldn't understand why I didn't like it. Now after experiencing a small taste of what's in store, they're are about as excited about it as I am now.

[Wooster]

I can understand the construction pain in the ass. Pretty much unavoidable when reurbanizing a city. In the long term though, I think this project, and projects near it like the Erlton Anthem project, will really be a big benefit to Ramsay and actually the inner city in general.

[bob1954]

Damn good looking project! It's about time, this should have happened about 10 years ago! Better late than never!

[korzym]

Looks ok, but if you haven't been to the area frequently you wouldn't know about the Lyledale meat cutting plant. HAVE MERCY RAMSAY SMELLS LIKE CRAP!

Location LOCATION LOCATION!!! It's by an industrial area, and the smell from the meat plant make it a bad choice. And its by a cementary, things that make me avoid living there.

The only bright spots is that it takes away some of the industrial land and transforms it into an "oasis". Thats all it really is, something nice in the middle of no where. The other bonus is its proximity to the pathway system.

[Wooster]

I wouldn't say it's in the middle of nowhere. It's on the edge of Ramsay.

[korzym]

I wouldn't say it's in the middle of nowhere. It's on the edge of Ramsay.
Which is a neighborhood in shambles...many houses over there look like their going to collapse and are in disrepair.

[Bigtime]

I think you judge Ramsay too harshly, it is a great little community!

[Inner City Dweller]

Time for a lurker and first timer from Ramsay to join this post.
Let me explain my opposition to Ramsay Exchange. First of all this is not a case of NIMBYism. My living in Ramsay just allows me to have a little bit of knowledge about the site. It's all about Location.
First of all Korzym is right, 200 m to the east of the site sits a very busy, very smelly poultry processing plant. The stench on Sunday evening during clean out is unbelievable. Next is the Stampede Barn adjacent to the east of the property. At Stampede time full of horses, bulls and other livestock. My guess is not all the city slickers that a project like this attracts will have nostalgic memories at the smell of manure and large numbers of flies. These barns will at some point move directly south of the project to the Stampede land called Back of House, which runs the entire south side of the Exchange property. According to the Open House put on by the developer, owners will have caveat on title telling of these future plans of the Stampede, and no balconies and opening windows. No mention of the existing barns.
But the smells for this site don't end there. An easterly wind brings the smell of the Yeast plant. In the summer a south wind brings the odours of the Manchester asphalt plant.
That's not all that was not mentioned. Turns out the site is also in the 300 m exclusion zone of the former Manchester land fill. In order for this land to have residential, food service, hospitals or schools they must get a variance from Alberta Environment. They only applied for residential and food service.
This means no clinics or daycares on this site. At a community meeting the alderman explained the developer didn't apply for daycares because he didn't want children in this development.
So there are many varied factors converging on this site. I would like to see the city or the province investigate all the combined factors before they rush to zone this land residential. Perhaps this would mitigate some of these factors for the present residents, before they double the size of Ramsay.
This project is not going forward anytime soon, given the current conditions. So why not take some time and rethink this. Doubling the size of Ramsay with no children, does mean a development full of Yuppies as Ramsayfarian says and this market is already oversubscribed in the Beltline now. The City could do something more innovative and sustainable than a bunch of 40 story apartment condos and 2,000,000 square feet of commercial to revitalize one of the oldest and most historic neighbourhoods in Calgary.

Looks ok, but if you haven't been to the area frequently you wouldn't know about the Lyledale meat cutting plant. HAVE MERCY RAMSAY SMELLS LIKE CRAP!

Location LOCATION LOCATION!!! It's by an industrial area, and the smell from the meat plant make it a bad choice. And its by a cementary, things that make me avoid living there.

The only bright spots is that it takes away some of the industrial land and transforms it into an "oasis". Thats all it really is, something nice in the middle of no where. The other bonus is its proximity to the pathway system.

[Ramsayfarian]

Location LOCATION LOCATION!!! It's by an industrial area, and the smell from the meat plant make it a bad choice. And its by a cementary, things that make me avoid living there.

Which is a neighborhood in shambles...many houses over there look like their going to collapse and are in disrepair.

Talk about being uninformed and clueless.

[Bigtime]

:previous: Welcome Inner City Dweller!

You make some interesting points, and bring up some information I wasn't aware of for Ramsay Exchange.

I am quite surprised that Torode was planning for a "child free" development, especially since his first residential project; arriVa, has no such policy. I was also under the impression that most of the projects would not be developed by Torode, but they would sell the parcels to other developers to build on. I guess like how the city sold the parcels of land to developers for The Bridges. I assume they would keep a couple of sites to develop themselves though.

Allowing the development to have amenities such as clinics, daycares, and other uses like that should almost be a requirement from the city. Not everything can be fancy high-end stores and restaurants.

As for the whole smell issue, I don't think it would be a huge deal. After all don't you already live with those same smells? Wasn't Ramsay also working on coming to some sort of understanding with the city to do something about the Lilydale plant?

At the last open house that Torode put on they seemed to show a pretty good "vegetation wall" and green space to seperate the south side of the project from the future Stampede backlot operations. Plus if buyers are made fully aware of their presence and it is in the contract as a caveat I would have no sympathy for anyone that could claim they didn't know.

We actually have a similar caveat in the arriVa contracts about not being able to complain about The Stampede and their operations. Didn't bother me, I just assumed we'd be in the middle of a zoo during Stampede anyways.

So would you rather see Ramsay Exchange developed more on a scale like The Bridges phase 1? Of course also allowing for children in the development, and the addition of being able to have medical and daycare facilities. With this project no doubt not going ahead for a few more years I think we will be able to see some more great changes made to it, and hopefully most of the community will get on board with it at that point.

[korzym]

Talk about being uninformed and clueless.

well you can talk about seeing life through pink sunglasses...all you want.

[Ramsayfarian]

As for the whole smell issue, I don't think it would be a huge deal. After all don't you already live with those same smells? Wasn't Ramsay also working on coming to some sort of understanding with the city to do something about the Lilydale plant?
....
We actually have a similar caveat in the arriVa contracts about not being able to complain about The Stampede and their operations. Didn't bother me, I just assumed we'd be in the middle of a zoo during Stampede anyways.


Lilydale is far from being a good corporate neighbour. Their attitude to everything is pretty much a big "Fuck You". A few years ago they wanted to expand their plant and basically told the community that if you ok our plans, we'll address your issues. Some of which are in violation of local bylaws and provincial/federal laws.

That Stampede caveat is interesting. Who aren't you allowed to complain to? The property manager? The city?

[Bigtime]

Lilydale is far from being a good corporate neighbour. Their attitude to everything is pretty much a big "Fuck You". A few years ago they wanted to expand their plant and basically told the community that if you ok our plans, we'll address your issues. Some of which are in violation of local bylaws and provincial/federal laws.

That Stampede caveat is interesting. Who aren't you allowed to complain to? The property manager? The city?

Wow, Lilydale sure thinks their shit doesn't stink eh?

As for the Stampede caveat I believe we can't file any complaints with the city about their activities. It may only relate to Stampede though, I can't remember all the fine print in the contract. However I was very surprised that during Stampede last year it was actually not noisy at all in our place. Even the fireworks are just dull thuds going off around midnight.

[Ramsayfarian]

Wow, Lilydale sure thinks their shit doesn't stink eh?

As for the Stampede caveat I believe we can't file any complaints with the city about their activities. It may only relate to Stampede though, I can't remember all the fine print in the contract. However I was very surprised that during Stampede last year it was actually not noisy at all in our place. Even the fireworks are just dull thuds going off around midnight.

The think their shit and their offal which is stored illegally, doesn't stink. I'm about four blocks away and have never smelt it, but stand in the Shamrock parking lot or across the street on a warm day and it will make you gag.

You're lucky with the noise. I don't mind the fireworks, but the sounds of the Grandstand show and Nashville North gets on my nerves. One thing Ramsay has going for it is fantastic acoustics. I could almost tolerate the 9 days of the show, but combine it with the week and a half of rehearsals. There's a reason why I get out of Dodge.

[Bigtime]

You're lucky with the noise. I don't mind the fireworks, but the sounds of the Grandstand show and Nashville North gets on my nerves. One thing Ramsay has going for it is fantastic acoustics. I could almost tolerate the 9 days of the show, but combine it with the week and a half of rehearsals. There's a reason why I get out of Dodge.

I couldn't hear the Grandstand show, even on my balcony. I was really surprised by that!

[Ramsayfarian]

I couldn't hear the Grandstand show, even on my balcony. I was really surprised by that!

I'm directly in line with the Grandstand. The sound just rolls up the ridge then down the school field uninterrupted. I can hear the MC for both the rodeo and the Chucks, which I doesn't bother me.

[O-tacular]

It would make me laugh so hard if this project never happened and the Device to root out evil was stuck in an industrial wasteland.

[Inner City Dweller]

I don't think the "child free" thing is an official policy, but more of a design plan. Design it to be child un-friendly and they will not come. For example, arriVa where you live, we went for a tour and the sales person told us there were perhaps 3 children in the entire tower, but the children had come after contracts were signed and they were looking to sell. arriVa was not really intended for families, by design and price.
As for the Lilydale smell, they located here in the mid 80's, but have gotten busier and smellier. They seem to make no effort to be good neighbours, offal bins out in the open behind chain link and trucks full of cages that aren't covered coming and going at all hours and no parking so that cars are parked on the streets all around (and no they can't permit park the area since there is a park and school there). No level of government wants to take responsibility for them to clean up their act. I asked our alderman why they didn't try to get them to relocate out to the country where it makes more sense, he answered "taxes and jobs"
As for the green space you saw at the open house, he showed green space and a pathway in the drawings. They had made a mistaken assumption that there was an abandoned rail right of way there, that would be made over into green space and pathway. This only exists on old maps, that land belongs to the Stampede and they have no will or obligation to use their land for a buffer. Which brings me to the silly game the city is playing with the barns. Barns/kennels require a 150 m buffer zone from residential both city and Alberta bylaw. But using some legal wiggling, long story short, the barns aren't barns according to the City. As for the caveat, you cannot give up your right to complain about issues that could be a human health risk or obnoxious odour.
Yes I would like to see some development here, but there are conditions that have to mitigated before that happens. You are right we already have residential here under the same conditions, but there is conflict with our industrial neighbours. Just increasing the density, increases that conflict. And children would help the under utilized school across the street, but that isn't in the plans for what is before council awaiting second reading.
:previous: Welcome Inner City Dweller!

You make some interesting points, and bring up some information I wasn't aware of for Ramsay Exchange.

I am quite surprised that Torode was planning for a "child free" development, especially since his first residential project; arriVa, has no such policy. I was also under the impression that most of the projects would not be developed by Torode, but they would sell the parcels to other developers to build on. I guess like how the city sold the parcels of land to developers for The Bridges. I assume they would keep a couple of sites to develop themselves though.

Allowing the development to have amenities such as clinics, daycares, and other uses like that should almost be a requirement from the city. Not everything can be fancy high-end stores and restaurants.

As for the whole smell issue, I don't think it would be a huge deal. After all don't you already live with those same smells? Wasn't Ramsay also working on coming to some sort of understanding with the city to do something about the Lilydale plant?

At the last open house that Torode put on they seemed to show a pretty good "vegetation wall" and green space to seperate the south side of the project from the future Stampede backlot operations. Plus if buyers are made fully aware of their presence and it is in the contract as a caveat I would have no sympathy for anyone that could claim they didn't know.

We actually have a similar caveat in the arriVa contracts about not being able to complain about The Stampede and their operations. Didn't bother me, I just assumed we'd be in the middle of a zoo during Stampede anyways.

So would you rather see Ramsay Exchange developed more on a scale like The Bridges phase 1? Of course also allowing for children in the development, and the addition of being able to have medical and daycare facilities. With this project no doubt not going ahead for a few more years I think we will be able to see some more great changes made to it, and hopefully most of the community will get on board with it at that point.

[Ramsayfarian]

...As for the green space you saw at the open house, he showed green space and a pathway in the drawings. They had made a mistaken assumption that there was an abandoned rail right of way there, that would be made over into green space and pathway. This only exists on old maps, that land belongs to the Stampede and they have no will or obligation to use their land for a buffer. Which brings me to the silly game the city is playing with the barns. Barns/kennels require a 150 m buffer zone from residential both city and Alberta bylaw. But using some legal wiggling, long story short, the barns aren't barns according to the City..


Interesting, I didn't know the history on the green space.

I have a questions for you.

Years ago, The Space Gym, wanted to open a small lounge in the Dominion Bridge Building. Pretty much the entire community got their panties in knot over the idea. I was the only one at the information meeting that was in favour of it. The city shot down the plan. One reason was due to it's proximity to the old Manchester dump. My question is: How the heck did Torode's kid get the o.k to open his cafe? To the best of my knowledge there has been no site remediation.

[Inner City Dweller]

As far as I know the 300 m exclusion zone ends just behind the cafe. As to the Space gym lounge's location to the exclusion zone, I don't know.
Basically most of the south part of the Exchange is in the exclusion zone, where the high density will be located, but the part near 24th ave isn't

Interesting, I didn't know the history on the green space.

I have a questions for you.

Years ago, The Space Gym, wanted to open a small lounge in the Dominion Bridge Building. Pretty much the entire community got their panties in knot over the idea. I was the only one at the information meeting that was in favour of it. The city shot down the plan. One reason was due to it's proximity to the old Manchester dump. My question is: How the heck did Torode's kid get the o.k to open his cafe? To the best of my knowledge there has been no site remediation.

[Ramsayfarian]

As far as I know the 300 m exclusion zone ends just behind the cafe. As to the Space gym lounge's location to the exclusion zone, I don't know.
Basically most of the south part of the Exchange is in the exclusion zone, where the high density will be located, but the part near 24th ave isn't

The lounge would have been located north of the cafe.

I saw a first today. A wedding party had their pictures taken in front of The Device to Root Out Evil.

[Ramsayfarian]

Found this photo via Digg of all places.

It looks like a strike is going on.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/dog427435/563.jpg

[Bigtime]

I don't think the "child free" thing is an official policy, but more of a design plan. Design it to be child un-friendly and they will not come. For example, arriVa where you live, we went for a tour and the sales person told us there were perhaps 3 children in the entire tower, but the children had come after contracts were signed and they were looking to sell. arriVa was not really intended for families, by design and price.


That is what I find interesting, I would think that arriVa is one of the more child friendly developments simply by the size of the average unit. We are in the smallest two bedroom and it is just shy of 1100 square feet. My wife and I have no plans to abandon ship anytime soon with the baby on the way, to us it seems like a very large amount of space for the first few years. Or if we have only 1 child there is definitely no need to rush out.

Some of the design may not be as family friendly, the kitchens are very "European" (aka not much shelf space) but we have already modified our place to have an abundance of extra storage space.

It always amazes me that our society thinks that 1100 sq.ft is too small for a family, what is the average condo/apartment size in Europe or Asia that families live in just fine?

[CanadianTurbo]

That is what I find interesting, I would think that arriVa is one of the more child friendly developments simply by the size of the average unit. We are in the smallest two bedroom and it is just shy of 1100 square feet. My wife and I have no plans to abandon ship anytime soon with the baby on the way, to us it seems like a very large amount of space for the first few years. Or if we have only 1 child there is definitely no need to rush out.

Some of the design may not be as family friendly, the kitchens are very "European" (aka not much shelf space) but we have already modified our place to have an abundance of extra storage space.

It always amazes me that our society thinks that 1100 sq.ft is too small for a family, what is the average condo/apartment size in Europe or Asia that families live in just fine?

I agree totally, that was one of the reasons my wife and I were going for our unit in Arriva 42, as it was 1,315 sq ft no problem for a small family. Obviously in the inner city you give up space for location and we cannot all afford to live in Mount Royal, but really needing 3-4 bedroom homes is not at all necessary with 2-3 people in your family. However we do prefer a more Euro/Asian lifestyle (hell we only even have a Smart car) which is all very foreign in this city, and a big reason as to why we will probably leave.

[Bigtime]

Don't leave CanadianTurbo, we have to start the shift at some point. I think that families like yours and ours can start making that change.

Have you looked at some of the brownstone townhomes in Erlton? There are some really nice 2-3 bedroom units there, I know we are definitely looking at them when we do decide to move out of arriVa.

[CanadianTurbo]

An Erlton Brownstone would be very nice, my wife grew up in Erlton (her Mom still lives on the hill near the monastery) so I know she would love one, just not sure on costs and obviously have to see what happens with Arriva 42 when their month of protection is up.

[Bigtime]

An Erlton Brownstone would be very nice, my wife grew up in Erlton (her Mom still lives on the hill near the monastery) so I know she would love one, just not sure on costs and obviously have to see what happens with Arriva 42 when their month of protection is up.

arriVa 34 is finally being handed over to us from the developer, we have our turnover meeting on April 28th. I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about the current situation that arriVa 42 is in, so if I hear anything of interest I'll be sure to mention it on here.

[Thomas Alexander]

No recent discussion about the Ramsay Exchange...but apparently it is NOT dead according to a story in the Calgary Herald:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/Smell+buffer+urged+condo+plan+near+Stampede/2947069/story.html
quote: "Plans for the Exchange include a treed green belt along the Stampede's property line. Residential highrises closest to the Stampede would come in the final phase of the project, which would take about 15 years to complete and wouldn't likely proceed quickly amid the current lull in Calgary's condo boom.

Developers have also pledged to put a "buyer beware" caveat in property titles of Exchange homeowners."

[bob1954]

They'll have to build very tall structures there. I think the higher you are in elevation the better you can get away from the odor!