[MrChills]

GO TEAM CANADA GO!!! :cheers:

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/07/09/canada-cannabis.html (http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/07/09/canada-cannabis.html)

[Calgarian]

how many of those people surveyed come from Vancouver?

[Boris2k7]

And yet, we aren't making a damn penny off this stuff. Think of the stuff you could pay for if you taxed at even a quarter of the rate for tobacco. Say goodbye to healthcare premiums...

[Lobstick]

No doubt. I say legalize it fully with zero taxes to allow it to become a legitimate industry and then slowly jack the taxes up. Imagine the tourism revenue you could get from stoner yankees.

[vid]

You'd think with all that pot we'd be more mellow, but no. Jumpy as fucks, the whole lot of us.

[sync]

Say goodbye to healthcare premiums...

in alberta?

not likely.

[Calgarian]

No kidding, instead of spending billions of dollars a year trying to fight this stuff, legalize it and tax it.

[flar]

Marijuana cigarettes cause brain damage, psychosis, and eventually, insanity.

[vid]

Marijuana cigarettes cause brain damage, psychosis, and eventually, insanity.

http://www.druglibrary.org/mags/AApicture/flim/Devil's_Harvest.jpg

It's still worse than tobacco and alcohol.

[401_King]

how many of those people surveyed come from Vancouver?

lol that was the first thing i thought when i read the thread.

[Boris2k7]

Marijuana cigarettes cause brain damage, psychosis, and eventually, insanity.

Bullshit. There are American Medical Association reports that list no such things:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13625.html#analgesic_effects_of_TCH_and_smoked_marijuana
Acutely, marijuana increases heart rate, and blood pressure may decrease on standing. Intoxication is associated with impairment of short-term memory, attention, motor skills, reaction time, and the organization and integration of complex information.187,188 Although dependent on the setting, marijuana can cause relaxation and enhance mood. Ordinary sensory experiences may be intensified, with increased talkativeness, perceptual alterations, and distortion in time sense followed by drowsiness and lethargy. These effects appear to be mediated by CB1 receptors because they are diminished by selective antagonism of the CB1 receptor.189 However, some individuals experience acute anxiety or panic reactions, confusion, dysphoria, paranoia, and psychotic symptoms (eg, delusions, hallucinations).188

Heavy users may experience apathy, lowered motivation, and impaired cognitive performance.188 Chronic marijuana use is associated with development of tolerance to some effects and the appearance of withdrawal symptoms (restlessness, irritability, mild agitation, insomnia, sleep disturbances, nausea, cramping) with the onset of abstinence. Depending on the measures and age group studied, 4% to 9% of marijuana users fulfill diagnostic criteria for substance dependence. Although some marijuana users develop dependence, they appear to be less likely to do so than users of alcohol and nicotine, and the abstinence syndrome is less severe.4,188,190 Like other drugs, dependence is more likely to occur in individuals with co-morbid psychiatric conditions.

In shorter terms, marijuana is no different than other drugs, the effects of it usually occur only under periods of intoxication and the most severe effects (insomnia, cramping, etc.) are usually only felt by heavy or chronic users.

[flar]

I'm just kidding, does anyone even say "marijuana cigarettes" anymore?

[Boris2k7]

I'm just kidding, does anyone even say "marijuana cigarettes" anymore?

Ah, I missed the sarcasm. Sorry. Error in translation, silly interweb.

[circle33]

/\ I'm guessing he was being satirical. The use of the term "marajuana cigarette" kind of tipped me off.

I'm not sure why there continues to be such strong political opposition to, and why so many resources go into combating the use of, this relatively harmelss substance. I'm blaming the freemasons.

[circle33]

Hmmm. I was slow to the draw there.

[harls]

Marajuana causes slow reflexes.

[1ajs]

Marajuana and rum make good cocktails for terminaly ill people....

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

http://www.druglibrary.org/mags/AApicture/flim/Devil's_Harvest.jpg

It's still worse than tobacco and alcohol.

Can't remember exactly where I found this, but it shows Marijuana as not being as bad as alcohol or tobacco.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/monctongoldenflames/20drugs.gif

[Doady]

Can't remember exactly where I found this, but it shows Marijuana as not being as bad as alcohol or tobacco.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/monctongoldenflames/20drugs.gif

Typical left-wing BS.

[sync]

Go Heroin!

[SpongeG]

why does vancouver get the pot rep?

I think stats show that pot is much bigger in quebec than bc - it has more cafes etc and more people smoke it there than the national average or something

[Policy Wonk]

Bullshit. There are American Medical Association reports that list no such things:

He is obviously quoting Refer Madness

[graupner]

If we legalize marijuana, USA will tighten their borders and will eventually make it much harder to do bussiness with them. It's not a good economical decicision.

I'm in my early 20s, I've been somking marijuana on an irregular basis for many years and completing an university master in maths, I have a well paid job in a financial institution, a good social life, a beloved one and such
. I guess the brain damage, social psychosis, paranoia and such were not so bad...

[ReginaGuy]

pot is perfectly harmless, unless you do something stupid like trying to drive high. I'm pretty sure almost everyone has tried it at least once

I've never totally understood the reason for criminalizing it

[Rusty van Reddick]

Marijuana cigarettes cause brain damage, psychosis, and eventually, insanity.

Only if you SMOKE them.

People smoke up like it's going out of style in Calgary too- I don't get the Vancouver stereotype; this whole country is bud paradise.

[graupner]

Only if you SMOKE them.

People smoke up like it's going out of style in Calgary too- I don't get the Vancouver stereotype; this whole country is bud paradise.

Yeah really, people in Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, everywhere, we smoke weed. And that's what makes us a great country :notacrook: .

[SpongeG]

pot like everything in life needs to be done in moderation

if it were legal or treated like alchohol it would eventually have less appeal - like drinking a lot of people go out and drink a lot and than reach their mid 20's and slow down or drop it all together as the novelty wears off and do it socially or once in a while

pot is a natural substance, no processing like the making of alcohol is needed

[Mike K.]

Question: what's Jamaica got to say about the world average?

Just for fun, did you know that Phillip Morris has already trademarked a whole slew of names for ganja cigs? They're eager and waiting.

[1ajs]

what? holy shit they better not put chemicals in the stuff cause then were back to sqaure one...

o and 5k posts lol

[SteveP]

Marijuana cigarettes cause brain damage, psychosis, and eventually, insanity.

It definitely does. I learned this fact from the movie "Reefer madness". :)

[SteveP]

Only if you SMOKE them.

People smoke up like it's going out of style in Calgary too- I don't get the Vancouver stereotype; this whole country is bud paradise.

I was down on 17th ave in Calgary this weekend, and it seemed like there were more people openly smoking pot than tobacco cigarettes. Nothing but pot smokers wearing cowboy hats, it was hilarious.

[Boris2k7]

o and 5k posts lol

ZOMG! HAPPY POSTDAY!!! :5:

[Riise]

Nothing but pot smokers wearing cowboy hats, it was hilarious.

After the release of Brokeback Mountain cowboys have become a lot more open.

[WaterlooInvestor]

:(

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070708.wpott0708/BNStory/National
Pot policy creating too many criminals?
ALEXANDER PANETTA
Canadian Press
July 8, 2007 at 5:09 PM EDT

OTTAWA — The number of people arrested for smoking pot rose dramatically in several Canadian cities last year after the Conservatives took office and killed a bill to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana.

The spike in arrests for simple possession of cannabis appears in data compiled by The Canadian Press from municipal police forces through interviews and Access to Information Act requests.

National statistics will only be released next week but preliminary figures suggest the number of arrests jumped by more than one-third in several Canadian cities.

Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax all reported increases of between 20 and 50 per cent in 2006, while Montreal and Calgary saw their number of arrests dip a few percentage points from the previous year.
As a result thousands of people were charged with a criminal offence that just recently was within a whisker of extinction.

Every party in the House of Commons except the Conservatives supported a bill to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana, but the Liberal government that sponsored it never brought it to a final vote.

Several police officials say the trend is linked directly to that legislation, which died as a result of the federal election on Jan. 23, 2006.

The head of one police association said many forces simply stopped laying charges after the Liberals first introduced a decriminalization bill under Jean Chrétien in 2003.

“There were several police jurisdictions not laying the simple ... possession charges,” said Terry McLaren, president of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.

“Everybody was waiting for what was going to happen.... There'd be no use clogging up court system with that decriminalization bill there.

“'When that was defeated, I'd say it was business as usual.”

The number of people charged plunged from 26,882 in 2002 and remained relatively steady, below 19,000, for the three years that decriminalization was being debated in Parliament.

But police say many pot-smokers — especially younger ones — appear unaware that the bill never actually passed.

So even if marijuana consumption remains as illegal in Canada as it has been since 1923, police say some people are toking more boldly than they've ever toked before.

Which makes it far easier to arrest them.

“You'd have a youth smoking a joint out on the street without any fear of being caught,” said Toronto police Det. Doug McCutcheon.

“You go to any high school and do a quiz. Find out how many kids realize that it takes three readings (in the House of Commons), plus Senate approval, before something happens.”

The stillborn bill by the previous Liberal government would have made possession under 15 grams a non-criminal offence punishable by fines starting at $150.

Nearly half of Canadians have committed the crime spelled out in Section 4 of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. It sets out a maximum six-month prison sentence and a $1,000 fine for anyone caught with 30 grams of marijuana or less.

Liberalization advocates say 600,000 Canadians unfairly carry a criminal record because of existing laws. They call the decision to scrap decriminalization wrong-headed.

“It seems to me that the clock is turning backwards here,” said New Democrat MP Libby Davies, a persistent critic of current laws.

“'They may charge more people — but they're not deterring youth, they're not putting in funds for education or prevention.

“The (Tories) have a very regressive policy that's in line with what the U.S. is doing in its so-called war on drugs — which is a total failure.”

If this is a war on marijuana, the public is getting mixed messages about the declared enemy.

The reality is that about only half the people arrested for simple possession even get charged, and the vast majority of those who are charged for pot possession alone never do any time.

In some cases people are handcuffed, brought to jail, and strip-searched by police after being stopped. In other cases they just get told to toss away their joint, or get served papers ordering them to appear in court.

That erratic application only serves to infuriate critics of the status quo.

Several pot-smokers interviewed for this story shared anecdotes that illustrate how inconsistently the law is applied.

One pot activist has been arrested at least seven times, been strip-searched, forced to ride in a police van with more violent criminals, and was once stopped for carrying just enough weed to roll a tiny joint.

Marc-Boris St-Maurice compares that with the last time he was stopped by police, just a few weeks ago on a trendy Montreal boulevard.

The former leader and founder of the federal Marijuana party tossed away his joint on the sidewalk and ended up chatting casually with two officers about politics.

One Montreal cop who asked not to be identified said some officers can spend an entire career on the force without ever arresting any of the people they catch smoking a joint.

“I'd rather stop someone breaking into a house or stealing a car,” he said.

He said some officers might lay charges in conjunction with an unrelated offence to increase the likelihood of a criminal conviction — for instance, if they detect pot during a domestic-abuse investigation.

Chief McLaren agrees that most possession arrests occur when officers are investigating another incident. He estimates that seven out of 10 pot busts stem from things as diverse as busted brake lights, break-and-enters, or traffic stops.

A 2002 Senate report expressed alarm that the law is not applied equally to all Canadian citizens.

While pot-smokers are regularly prosecuted in some parts of the country, the RCMP detachment in Richmond, B.C., told the Senate that only 5 per cent of cases resulted in charges there.

The Senate committee — led by then-Progressive Conservative Sen. Pierre-Claude Nolin — proposed going even farther than the Liberals did, suggesting the legalization of marijuana.

A 1972 royal commission headed by Gerald Le Dain also recommended liberalizing marijuana laws but its suggestions were immediately rejected by the government.

The Nolin committee cited 1996 figures that pegged the annual cost of policing and prosecuting drug offences at $400-million, but suggested in its final report that the actual number could be more than double that.

One police drug-policy expert said the cost to society of substance abuse is far greater. He said years of decriminalization talk has sent mixed messages.

Barry McKnight expressed hope that the Conservatives' coming $64-million National Anti-Drug Strategy, promised in the last federal budget, will drive home one simple point.

“I'm hoping for a clear message: ... that drugs are bad,” said Mr. McKnight, a drug-policy expert with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police.

“Marijuana is a harmful drug. It's as simple as that — no ifs, ands, or buts. Period, end of sentence.”

The Nolin committee reported that excessive marijuana use can cause chronic bronchitis, create psychological problems, and affect learning. It also noted a higher concentration of some cancer-causing carcinogens in marijuana than in cigarettes.

But the report also called pot less addictive than either alcohol or cigarettes.

One criminology professor and drug-policy expert points out that alcohol consumption and cigarette-smoking rates have plummeted since the 1970s, while pot use has risen.

Tighter controls and public awareness of the dangers associated with booze and cigarettes have succeeded where prohibition failed, said Eugene Oscapella, a lawyer and criminology professor at the University of Ottawa.

“Going into the 21st century we should know better than to bludgeon the use of this drug with criminal law,” he said.

“It doesn't work, hasn't worked, never has worked, there's no prospect that it ever will work. Yet we continue to do it.”

The Senate committee also questioned the popular wisdom that marijuana is a so-called gateway drug that leads people to more dangerous substances.

Philippe Lucas, an addiction researcher at the University of Victoria, says marijuana is more of a buffer than a gateway.

He describes marijuana as a lesser evil that helps reduce the use of hard drugs, cuts into drinking and therefore prevents alcohol-related injuries. Prof. Lucas works at the local Compassion Club which supplies medical marijuana, and says many visitors believe pot keeps them out of worse trouble.

“People don't view it as a gateway drug. They view it as an exit drug,” he said.

“They use cannabis to stay away from more dangerous substances. They use it because they've just quit heroin, they use it because they want to stay away from crystal meth and alcohol.”

But Prof. Oscapella says the status quo is still not justified by the traditional view — that marijuana is just plain bad.

“Prohibition has been an utter and total failure,” he said.

“Not only has it failed to do anything, it has actually made the problem worse. It's not like some government programs that fail to do anything at all — this one does actual harm.

“Instead of just keeping us static and wasting money, it actually moves us backwards. And wastes money. And destroys lives. And finances terrorism, and insurgent groups around the world.”

[PhilippeMtl]

Marc-Boris St-Maurice compares that with the last time he was stopped by police, just a few weeks ago on a trendy Montreal boulevard.

The former leader and founder of the federal Marijuana party tossed away his joint on the sidewalk and ended up chatting casually with two officers about politics.

One Montreal cop who asked not to be identified said some officers can spend an entire career on the force without ever arresting any of the people they catch smoking a joint.

“I'd rather stop someone breaking into a house or stealing a car,” he said.

He said some officers might lay charges in conjunction with an unrelated offence to increase the likelihood of a criminal conviction — for instance, if they detect pot during a domestic-abuse investigation.

I think this situation is probably surrealist for an american..

[e909]

Marc-Boris St-Maurice compares that with the last time he was stopped by police, just a few weeks ago on a trendy Montreal boulevard.

The former leader and founder of the federal Marijuana party tossed away his joint on the sidewalk and ended up chatting casually with two officers about politics.

One Montreal cop who asked not to be identified said some officers can spend an entire career on the force without ever arresting any of the people they catch smoking a joint.

“I'd rather stop someone breaking into a house or stealing a car,” he said.

He said some officers might lay charges in conjunction with an unrelated offence to increase the likelihood of a criminal conviction — for instance, if they detect pot during a domestic-abuse investigation.

I think this situation is probably surrealist for an american..
Don't generalize America. A few of states have decriminalized marijuana, which puts them far ahead Canada.

Only reason being criminal law isn't a federal thing like it is here.

[Mister F]

“I'm hoping for a clear message: ... that drugs are bad,”
...mmkay?

“Marijuana is a harmful drug. It's as simple as that — no ifs, ands, or buts. Period, end of sentence.”
I assume he supports the prohibition of alcohol, tobacco, and caffiene, which are all harmful drugs, and are all more addictive than pot.

[vid]

Lol, I just noticed that I said pot was worse than tobacco and alcohol. :rolleyes:

Tobacco and alcohol have had much more negative impact on my life than pot ever could. I meant it the other way around. Tobacco and alcohol are worse than pot. :)

I guess I was "sleepy" when I said that? :shrug:

[sync]

Lol, I just noticed that I said pot was worse than tobacco and alcohol. :rolleyes:

Tobacco and alcohol have had much more negative impact on my life than pot ever could. I meant it the other way around. Tobacco and alcohol are worse than pot. :)

I guess I was "sleepy" when I said that? :shrug:

maybe you were high. ;)

[1ajs]

vid high no... sleepy yes...


alcihal destroys more families then pots does...
pot also has medical purposis.... i know a few plp who smoke it to eas their pain of dieing of cancer... geting stoned is not fun for them its a fact of life now

[vid]

Vid high? No... Sleepy? Yes...


Alcohol destroys more families than pot does...
Pot also has medical purposes.... I know a few people who smoke it to ease their pain of dieing of cancer... Getting stoned is not fun for them, it's a fact of life now.

I don't know what Adrian has been smoking, but it sure seems fun, don'it?

[MrChills]

Marijuana cigarettes cause brain damage, psychosis, and eventually, insanity.

That is too funny... So, are you saying this is caused immediately, or after five years, or... What a bullshit statement :koko:

[WhipperSnapper]

Drugs are bad ... Maritjuana bad

[vid]

"Uhh... drugs are bad, mmm'kay?"

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2830/204mkaymackeyta1.jpg

He was being sarcastic. If you read the thread a bit more, you'd know. ;)

I may post a lot, but at least I take the time to know what's going on in a thread before accusing people of stating bullshit as fact. :D

[Snashcan]

I personally don't smoke, and feel legalizing it wouldn't be a good thing, I think banning tabacco is something more important. There is definate health issues with marijuana....smoking anything has health issues. Regardless if it's as bad as tabacco or alcohol, it is still bad.

After living with a few of the biggest stoners out there, I am anti pot. They became such friggin losers! Dropped out of college, sat inside all day long, left the house only to get groceries or more pot. So pathetic.

[Boris2k7]

I personally don't smoke, and feel legalizing it wouldn't be a good thing, I think banning tabacco is something more important. There is definate health issues with marijuana....smoking anything has health issues. Regardless if it's as bad as tabacco or alcohol, it is still bad.

After living with a few of the biggest stoners out there, I am anti pot. They became such friggin losers! Dropped out of college, sat inside all day long, left the house only to get groceries or more pot. So pathetic.

And? So what? You would cause them undue misery and hardship simply because you don't like them? Wow, great guy you are...

Besides, which, prohibition of tobacco would only be as successful as the banning of any other drug... as in: complete and utter failure. That would be like throwing candy to the black market.

[WhipperSnapper]

After living with a few of the biggest stoners out there, I am anti pot. They became such friggin losers! Dropped out of college, sat inside all day long, left the house only to get groceries or more pot. So pathetic

But was it the pot or are they just naturally born losers. I know of quite a few potheads that sit at the very top of some of the most lucrative publicly traded companies in Canada and, with investors like you out there, their little secret is guarded to the nth degree

[Kevin_foster]

I personally don't smoke, and feel legalizing it wouldn't be a good thing, I think banning tabacco is something more important. There is definate health issues with marijuana....smoking anything has health issues. Regardless if it's as bad as tabacco or alcohol, it is still bad.

After living with a few of the biggest stoners out there, I am anti pot. They became such friggin losers! Dropped out of college, sat inside all day long, left the house only to get groceries or more pot. So pathetic.

Ok, but by banning items.. you're not doing much. Look at marijuana... it's banned, yet a record number of people are still using it.

Banning & enforcement of goods does a few things:
- Increases costs for enforcement
- Fills up our courts & jails
- Creates a black market

Adults can make their own decisions. If they want to smoke cigarettes and die a slow, horrible, painful death - then who's to stop them. Same with any drug user - if they are willing to kill a few brain cells for a "good time" - then who's to stop them.

We seem to forget about good ol' Mr. Darwin, and what role he plays in the grand scheme of things :)

Overall, education is where it's at. Keep teaching our children what is good and what is not good. When they are adults, let them decide for themselves what's best. The last thing we need is to start outlawing things, and telling citizens what they can and can't consume.... Say education isn't working? How do you know?? Have we actually ever tried stopping education and viewing the results?

[SpongeG]

hiding and banning things just makes those things that much more appealing

most people can smoke pot like its nothing the same way most people can enjoy a beer on a cold day with friends

people who smoke it and become losers are using it for different reasons and those things need to be fixed - pot isn't creating those problems

[Brandon716]

No doubt. I say legalize it fully with zero taxes to allow it to become a legitimate industry and then slowly jack the taxes up. Imagine the tourism revenue you could get from stoner yankees.

Do you realize the tourist dollars you'd get just for legalizing it? America would be happy to flush your economy with tens of billions more $$$.

[sync]

i used to hang out with all the law students at university and they friggin all smoked pot, some of them in amazing amounts - including a guy with top marks, dean's list and all that.

now as lawyers, they all still smoke it.

i'll have a puff if it's offered, but i haven't bought any in years.

the thing about weed now is it's so strong i find i get completely fried off 2 puffs.

maybe it's just me.

[sync]

Do you realize the tourist dollars you'd get just for legalizing it? America would be happy to flush your economy with tens of billions more $$$.

i have a strange feeling that there is MASSIVE political pressure from the us surrounding any talk of legalizing weed in canada.

[vid]

Yes, the US would have a hissy fit if we did that. How dare we try to save money by legalizing a mostly harmless substance! The nerve of us trying to make our country freer and safer!

[SpongeG]

how much does holland get out of what they are doing?

[MonkeyRonin]

Why I'm proud to be Canadian. :banana:

Any provincial/metropolitan stats on marijuana consumption?

[Jay in Cowtown]

pot like everything in life needs to be done in moderation


My thoughts exactly... a toke at the odd party or camping trip is fine, smoking 6 a day every day is really fucking sad!

[niwell]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: As someone who drinks more than smokes weed, alcohol is a far more disruptive drug. I can drink one night and have fun, but feel like shit half the next day and be miserable. Usually seeing a fight or two between drunk people for that matter. Or I can smoke a joint, hang out with friends or watch a couple movies, go to bed at a reasonable hour and be ready to go the next day for school or work. If one has to be illegal, I think it's probably the wrong one.

[ReginaGuy]

why are americans so afraid of pot anyways?

[vid]

why are americans so afraid of pot anyways?

Lack of education.

[MrChills]

After living with a few of the biggest stoners out there, I am anti pot. They became such friggin losers! Dropped out of college, sat inside all day long, left the house only to get groceries or more pot. So pathetic.

What a load of bullshit, your friends were losers long before they smoked pot and you are a loser for blaming their inability to contribute to society on pot. I work for a Fortune 500 Company, make well into the 6 figures, and am extremly physically active and guess what... I have been a daily smoker for 15 years. :koko:

[harls]

I know a few people that all they do is live to get stoned. That's pretty pathetic, just as those who live to get smashed on booze every weekend.

[Boris2k7]

Lack of education.

More like lack of education + ruling ideology + police power + lobbying from other industries (say, tobacco...)

[circle33]

why are americans so afraid of pot anyways?

I don't think they are. A handful of states have decriminalized it and I suspect the attitudes of the general population aren't much different than they are here.

[matt602]

Whoa, what were you guys talking about again? I forgot when I clicked... what the hell is that button called? The hell am I doing here? Geez, I need another hit.

[Calgarian]

What a load of bullshit, your friends were losers long before they smoked pot and you are a loser for blaming their inability to contribute to society on pot. I work for a Fortune 500 Company, make well into the 6 figures, and am extremly physically active and guess what... I have been a daily smoker for 15 years. :koko:

No kidding, most people can smoke weed once and a while and be perfectly fine, others have to do it all the time and become dependant on it. Blame the person not the pot.

If anyone here is curious about the reasons for the illegality of weed in the US watch a movie called Grass. According to them, pot was originally made illegal in the US as a means to control the Mexican population in the US (who are the ones that brought it there in the first place). I think (knowing the policies of the US) that this is a plausible explanation.

[Reesonov]

What a load of bullshit, your friends were losers long before they smoked pot and you are a loser for blaming their inability to contribute to society on pot. I work for a Fortune 500 Company, make well into the 6 figures, and am extremly physically active and guess what... I have been a daily smoker for 15 years. :koko:

Agreed. I smoke dope regularly (and have been for almost 15 years), work out regularly, read regularly, travel regularly, and make new friends regularly. In the 15 years since I started smoking, I've completed high school, 2 undergraduate degrees, and in September I begin law school. I know many high achieving dope smokers. My best friend is a heavier smoker than me and he just completed first year medical school.

Although, I should point out that I know a lot of lazy, unambitious users as well. Its difficult to say whether or not weed made them lazier or less ambitious. :shrug:

[vid]

I'm lazy and unambitious, and I don't smoke. How's that?

[Reesonov]

/\ Welcome to Skyscraperpage.com, refuge of the damned.

[vid]

/\ Welcome to Skyscraperpage.com, refuge of the damned.

I guess Stanzi is my own personal Satan, huh?

[TheMeltyMan]

I was a pothead from the ages of 18 to 20 and I was a paranoid bastard. Those were the best years of my life.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

All my friends smoke it, and all my friends are successful young professionals. I have a number of former friends that have fallen victim to alcohol and have done little with their lives. I don't think they need to legalize it as I don't know anybody that's ever been busted for possession or use, most cops don't care and I bet many of them do it themselves. The way we have it is fine and it appeases our uptight neighbours to the south.

[Boris2k7]

If anyone here is curious about the reasons for the illegality of weed in the US watch a movie called Grass. According to them, pot was originally made illegal in the US as a means to control the Mexican population in the US (who are the ones that brought it there in the first place). I think (knowing the policies of the US) that this is a plausible explanation.

That would be similar to Canada. Our first drug law (IIRC, these were in an introduction to law course that I took) was the banning of opium in 1908, which was essentially a federal government response to a legal situation in Vancouver. There were fears that Chinese-Canadian labourers were displacing White labourers, so the federal government banned opium and then used criminal charges to crack down on the population and allow companies to use discriminatory employment practices on the basis of drug crimes. Marijuana came way later of course, long after the prohibition of alcohol which came out of the social gospel and feminist movements.

[Snashcan]

What a load of bullshit, your friends were losers long before they smoked pot and you are a loser for blaming their inability to contribute to society on pot. I work for a Fortune 500 Company, make well into the 6 figures, and am extremly physically active and guess what... I have been a daily smoker for 15 years. :koko:

I never said it was impossible to be a pot smoker and be successful. I just said from my own experiance, clearly I'm quite far from a loser. But from my experiance, many pot smokers tend to be on the loser side. Who knows maybe if you didn't smoke you'd make millions. All I am saying is from what I've seen it has more negative effects than positive.

[trueviking]

And yet, we aren't making a damn penny off this stuff. Think of the stuff you could pay for if you taxed at even a quarter of the rate for tobacco. Say goodbye to healthcare premiums...

what's a 'health care premium'?

[SpongeG]

Decriminalize marijuana and "tax the hell out of it," B.C. senator says

VANCOUVER (CP) - A B.C. Liberal senator says the federal government should decriminalize marijuana and "tax the hell out of it," with the revenue going to public services such as health care.

Senator Larry Campbell says too much time and effort is being wasted with criminal prosecutions for minor amounts of the drug while organized crime reaps massive profits from the drug's cultivation.

And, he says, a lot of police officers are looking the other way when it comes to busting people for having marijuana.

He said Wednesday it's a drain on officers' time to spend five hours producing paperwork for marijuana charges.

The drug should be treated the same way alcohol is with its production controlled and sales regulated, Campbell said.

"This is not a drug that causes criminality," he said. "People are getting criminal records for essentially nothing."

A new study shows Canadians surpass Americans and even the Dutch when it comes to trying marijuana, but drug policy experts say it's not a cause for concern.

The UN's 2007 World Drug Report found 16.8 per cent of Canadians between the ages of 15 and 64 used pot in 2004 - the highest rate among developed nations.

The report studied the prevalence of marijuana use in 2005 or the latest year for which data was available.

By comparison, 12.6 per cent of American respondents said they have tried pot.

Britain, France, Germany and Japan all reported much lower rates than Canada.

However, despite the rise in the social acceptance of marijuana, the number of people arrested for smoking pot rose dramatically in several Canadian cities last year.

The spike in arrests came after the Conservatives took office and killed a bill to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana.

Several police officials say the trend is linked directly to that move.

Former Conservative MP Randy White said Campbell should move on to issues that have a hope of going somewhere under a Conservative government.

"He's definitely trying to keep the thing alive but let's face it, it's going to die," White said.

White said the fact the Liberals let the bill die on the order paper in the last Parliament shows how committed Campbell's own party is to the issue.

"It just went nowhere," he said.

National statistics will be released next week but preliminary figures compiled by The Canadian Press suggest the number of arrests jumped by more than one-third in several Canadian cities.

Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax all reported increases of between 20 and 50 per cent in 2006 from the previous year.

Montreal and Calgary had their arrest numbers dip slightly.

As a result, thousands of people were charged with a criminal offence that just recently was within a whisker of extinction.

In 2002, 26,882 people were charged with marijuana offences.

As the issue worked its way through Parliament prior to falling off the order paper as the election arrived in 2006, the numbers of those charged plunged and held steady below the 19,000 mark.

The head of one police association said many forces simply stopped laying charges after the Liberals first introduced a decriminalization bill under Jean Chretien in 2003.

"There were several police jurisdictions not laying the simple ... possession charges," said Terry McLaren, president of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.

"Everybody was waiting for what was going to happen. ... There'd be no use clogging up the court system with that decriminalization bill there."

"'When that was defeated, I'd say it was business as usual."

Campbell couldn't say how marijuana would be produced and if it could be the federal government that would grow the plants.

"I don't know how that would work," he said. "If you wanted to grow a plant in your backyard, so what," he said. "It's like me going and making plonk at the wine store."

In the smoke of B.C. Marijuana Party headquarters, Canada's so-called Prince of Pot, Marc Emery, said the fact one in six Canadians admits to smoking pot indicates how progressive the country is.

In fact, he believes the number is higher.

"Pot is the only drug that is inherently political," he said. "People who want strict conditional obedience in our society are the only ones who are against pot."

Emery is currently facing extradition proceedings in the Canadian courts. The U.S. wants him sent south to face charges.

He has been arrested more than 20 times in Canada and later this month will be in B.C. Supreme Court for a hearing to determine whether he will be extradited to the U.S. to face charges of selling marijuana seeds to Americans through the mail.




http://www.cjad.com/node/554449

[vid]

what's a 'health care premium'?

It's a bizarre tax that Ontario and Alberta created for no discernible reason, other than to be assholes. Ontario's Liberal government created ours, I have no idea why Alberta has one.

Earlier today, a guy lit up a joint on the bus at the terminal. Freaked the driver out. :P He had glaucoma apparently, and was on his way to the health centre. What a convenient excuse!

[SpongeG]

City police getting tougher with pot smokers

Number charged with simple possession doubles in five years

The number of people charged with simple possession of marijuana in the City of Vancouver has doubled over just the past five years -- suggesting the city's reputation for leniency on pot may no longer be deserved.

Indeed, new crime figures suggest the chance of being criminally charged for smoking a joint is actually higher now in Vancouver than in other B.C. cities like Surrey, Coquitlam, Prince George and Kelowna.

That's almost the exact reverse of the situation in the late 1990s, when the Vancouver Police Department's reputation for turning a blind eye to pot earned the city the nickname "Vansterdam."

Vancouver is still lenient by national standards -- with only 34 possession charges per 100,000 people, compared to the national average of 77.

But the numbers are going up fast.

In all, 200 people were charged with simple possession of marijuana in Vancouver in 2006 -- up from 133 a year earlier.

And the the number of pot charges has been steadily rising in the city since 2001, when just 99 people were charged.

The jump in marijuana charges in Vancouver is all the more striking because it comes at the same time that marijuana possession charges have been generally dropping in B.C.

For example, between 2001 and 2006, the number of people charged with marijuana possession dropped from 123 to 47 in Surrey, from 112 to 57 in Victoria, from 41 to 27 in Kelowna and from 38 to nine in West Vancouver.

VPD spokesman Const. Tim Fanning said there has been no specific change in policy to target marijuana users.

But he said Vancouver's reputation as a lenient place for pot smokers may have left some with a false sense of security.

"It may be that people feel . . . that they can do drugs openly. And that simply is not the case," he said. "It's still illegal and at any time someone could face a possession charge."

Fanning said the increase in pot charges may also be due to the VPD's increase in street-level enforcement.

While that enforcement is targeted at dealers, not users, said Fanning, police sometimes pursue a possession charge against a dealer when they don't have enough evidence of trafficking.

Crown prosecutors in B.C. make the ultimate decision on whether to charge someone with a crime -- but can do so only after police forward a report to them outlining the nature of the offence.

Bob Prior, regional director of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, said Wednesday his office has definitely noticed an increase in reports from the VPD on all types of drug-possession cases, including marijuana.

"I think clearly the Vancouver city police are focusing more on [drug] possession across the board," he said.

The increase was so dramatic, said Prior, that his office launched a review three years ago to find out what kind of people were being charged with pot possession.

Prior said the review found that only a few of those charged were first-time offenders.

"The overwhelming majority had a history of some type with the justice system," he said. "I think what it shows is that the police use discretion."

Prior said most of those convicted of marijuana possession in B.C. receive a fine or probation -- with very few getting any jail time.

Marc Emery, one of B.C.'s leading advocates for marijuana legalization, said the new figures should be a warning to cannabis users in Vancouver.

"A lot of young people are under the impression that pot is legal," he said. "People think they have immunity in the 'Vansterdam' region -- and that's illusory."

Statistic Canada only records the most serious offence in cases where there are multiple charges.

As a result, cases where someone was charged with marijuana possession along with a growing-operation or trafficking charge would not be counted.

Most cases of marijuana possession in B.C. are handled outside the court system, usually through "no-case seizures" where police seize and destroy the marijuana they find and write up a report, but do not recommend charges.

Indeed, only 8.7 per cent of marijuana-possession incidents in B.C. result in charges, compared to 39.3 per cent nationwide and 54.2 per cent in Ontario.

Vancouver, which used to have one of the lowest charge rates in B.C., now has one of the highest -- pursuing charges in 18.7 per cent of all cases.

Among major B.C. cities, only Victoria is higher, at 28.2 per cent.

By contrast, fewer than five per cent of marijuana-possession cases result in charges in Coquitlam and Surrey.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=fb6bffa2-e502-4bf1-a1ae-e4ef285ff530

[tarapoto]

And yet, we aren't making a damn penny off this stuff. Think of the stuff you could pay for if you taxed at even a quarter of the rate for tobacco. Say goodbye to healthcare premiums...

They should put more taxes on tobacco and cut our health premiums, and then refuse treatment for tobacco related diseases. Might as well take money from the smokers and rather treat all the other people they affect with their smoking

[vid]

Not treating someone because they smoke is unconstitutional.

[ScottFromCalgary]

They should put more taxes on tobacco and cut our health premiums, and then refuse treatment for tobacco related diseases. Might as well take money from the smokers and rather treat all the other people they affect with their smoking

How about we just privatize the entire thing and let people pay for their own choices. I should be allowed to smoke as much as I want at my own private residence thank you very much. I would rather just see smokers pay more in a private health care system since they would require more treatment.

[vid]

And those of us that can barely afford our rent let alone health insurance will...?

[ScottFromCalgary]

Pay less tax? Have more money to spend?

[vid]

Almost 60% of my income goes to bills and another 20% goes to food. That leaves me with about ... 145$ a month to spend on "whatever".

See, this is why my teeth are crooked - we have never been able to afford the dentist. Aside from the occasional checkup and getting a broken tooth removed (not replaced, just sanded down) any kind of dental work is right out. And they expect me to pay for my own health care!

[Kevin_foster]

How about we just privatize the entire thing and let people pay for their own choices. I should be allowed to smoke as much as I want at my own private residence thank you very much. I would rather just see smokers pay more in a private health care system since they would require more treatment.

This from a guy that calls himself a "Calgreedian" and who's profile description reads

"Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind."

Sure buddy - keep livin that way :haha:

[Calgarian]

Weed should be in the same boat as tobacco. It should be legal and taxed. If you want to smoke it, you will suffer the consequences, it's simple.

[cornholio]

First of all you canot tax weed because it is to easy to grow at home. That is the naib problem that goverment will always have with it, its imposibel to control.

Regarding Tobacco there is alot of missinformation out there regarding its costs to society. I once did a project and put in alot of research and infact came to the conclusion that tobacco infact saves society billions and billions of dollars. Ill summarize how that works, a non smoker living to the age of 80(15 years of suport by society and atleast 10 years of racking up huge medical bills leading to death...bills that increase as death nears) costs society crap loads of $'s...think a million+. A smoker who racks up small medical bills here and there through out their life and dies at 65 from cancer saves society alot of money by a)not being suported for a decade or two, B)missing the much larger health problems that come with old age. Now factor in the insane taxes on tobacco and you soon realize that it is a blessing in disguise. By the way there is nothing worse then a person living to a 100, that costs us 2+ million, much better to rack up a couple hundred thousand dollar cancer bill and croke at 65. Die before 65 = bad...live past 65 = bad. Infact its better if someone probably dies before 60 as productivity drops significantly and in most cases there is no longer a net benefit to society.

Ill try to dig out some real numbers and stats that I had to start a thread...think it would be interesting.

[MolsonExport]

Pot helped me get through my PhD. And my MSc, BComm and DEC, for that matter. It's true; doob has made me dumber.

[Mister F]

It wouldn't surprise me if smoking saved money actually. Pot could be a cash cow for the government too. Sure, people can grow it, but I suspect that most people would pay extra for the convenience of buying it in a store.

How about we just privatize the entire thing and let people pay for their own choices. I should be allowed to smoke as much as I want at my own private residence thank you very much. I would rather just see smokers pay more in a private health care system since they would require more treatment.
So someone who has the misfortune of having a chronic disease like diabetes deserves to be broke?

[vid]

First of all you canot tax weed because it is to easy to grow at home. That is the naib problem that goverment will always have with it, its imposibel to control.

Regarding Tobacco there is alot of missinformation out there regarding its costs to society. I once did a project and put in alot of research and infact came to the conclusion that tobacco infact saves society billions and billions of dollars. Ill summarize how that works, a non smoker living to the age of 80(15 years of suport by society and atleast 10 years of racking up huge medical bills leading to death...bills that increase as death nears) costs society crap loads of $'s...think a million+. A smoker who racks up small medical bills here and there through out their life and dies at 65 from cancer saves society alot of money by a)not being suported for a decade or two, B)missing the much larger health problems that come with old age. Now factor in the insane taxes on tobacco and you soon realize that it is a blessing in disguise. By the way there is nothing worse then a person living to a 100, that costs us 2+ million, much better to rack up a couple hundred thousand dollar cancer bill and croke at 65. Die before 65 = bad...live past 65 = bad. Infact its better if someone probably dies before 60 as productivity drops significantly and in most cases there is no longer a net benefit to society.

Ill try to dig out some real numbers and stats that I had to start a thread...think it would be interesting.

What a morbid statistic! :D Maybe we SHOULD send our seniors out on ice floes? :D

So someone who has the misfortune of having a chronic disease like diabetes deserves to be broke?

Absolutely! It's their own damn fault the got sick! Even if it isn't! That's called capitalism, and it's made one out of every hundred people rich!

[cornholio]

^I know what I said sounds realy wrong but its true. I am yet to see a public study on the true costs of smoking, costs where they take everything in to acount such as the savings from a early death.

Smokers are the most selfles, giving and caring people. They shorten their lifespan for the benefit of all others. So all you freekin letuce eaters, health nuts, who bitch and whine about second hand smoke can go to hell because your all selfish, self centered ways hurt way more people...get a life and die a bit earlier.

[SpongeG]

First of all you canot tax weed because it is to easy to grow at home. That is the naib problem that goverment will always have with it, its imposibel to control.

Regarding Tobacco there is alot of missinformation out there regarding its costs to society. I once did a project and put in alot of research and infact came to the conclusion that tobacco infact saves society billions and billions of dollars. Ill summarize how that works, a non smoker living to the age of 80(15 years of suport by society and atleast 10 years of racking up huge medical bills leading to death...bills that increase as death nears) costs society crap loads of $'s...think a million+. A smoker who racks up small medical bills here and there through out their life and dies at 65 from cancer saves society alot of money by a)not being suported for a decade or two, B)missing the much larger health problems that come with old age. Now factor in the insane taxes on tobacco and you soon realize that it is a blessing in disguise. By the way there is nothing worse then a person living to a 100, that costs us 2+ million, much better to rack up a couple hundred thousand dollar cancer bill and croke at 65. Die before 65 = bad...live past 65 = bad. Infact its better if someone probably dies before 60 as productivity drops significantly and in most cases there is no longer a net benefit to society.

Ill try to dig out some real numbers and stats that I had to start a thread...think it would be interesting.

they could tax the seeds though

[Calgarian]

So what's to stop someone from growing tobacco at home?

[theman23]

^I know what I said sounds realy wrong but its true. I am yet to see a public study on the true costs of smoking, costs where they take everything in to acount such as the savings from a early death.

Smokers are the most selfles, giving and caring people. They shorten their lifespan for the benefit of all others. So all you freekin letuce eaters, health nuts, who bitch and whine about second hand smoke can go to hell because your all selfish, self centered ways hurt way more people...get a life and die a bit earlier.

:(
Okay.

*shoots self*

[ScottFromCalgary]

So someone who has the misfortune of having a chronic disease like diabetes deserves to be broke?

They don't deserve to be broke, but do I have to pay for their problems? That's a legitimate question, I'm not being facetious or anything. Is the rest of society liable for the ills of a small proportion?

[Reesonov]

/\ Yes. That's what distinguishes a community from a jungle. Besides, is it really in your best interest to have bands of desperate diabetics banding together and roaming the city looting and turning over cars?

[ScottFromCalgary]

^Seems reasonable. I do prefer my car sans insulin-starved diabetics.

[MonkeyRonin]

uh-oh...don't mention the diabeetus...

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6640/diabeetusbi2.jpg

[SpongeG]

oh gawd how did this turn

never mind

but whats next someone gonna bring up abortion?

[Reesonov]

uh-oh...don't mention the diabeetus...

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6640/diabeetusbi2.jpg

I no longer understand even half of the things that appear on the internet. Yes, I'm getting old.

[vid]

^^ It's Wilford Brimley! For Liberty Mutual! Did you know that your diabeetis medication might be covered by medicare??

YXQaMaBxwRg
pjwyhT90cQE

They don't deserve to be broke, but do I have to pay for their problems? That's a legitimate question, I'm not being facetious or anything. Is the rest of society liable for the ills of a small proportion?

I don't have a car, so why should I pay taxes for your highways?

I don't like Parliament. Why should my taxes go to paying them??

Oh, that's right. We live in a society!!!! :banana: