[Pootkao]

hey guys...

I wanted to weigh in on the Collective/American Apparel and Royal Albert/boutique hotel projects. This has become a big enough post that i've decided to just give it its own thread. And hey, I haven't started a new thread in ... what? at least a year? I'm due.

I'm quite torn on both projects, because they pull directly on my two biggest interests: urban renewal, and our music scene. They are both clubs that I have performed at countless times, seen some incredible acts at, and gotten quite stoicly loaded at.

For local indie bands to lose TWO venues at virtually the same time is incredibly disheartening and frustrating to a lot of musicians, myself included. I imagine most of you on this board have rarely, if ever, been in either place ... but these are the clubs that actually contribute to Winnipeg being a hipper place to live, places where the raw spirit of rock still lives -- unscarred by a corporate music industry slowly falling to ruin. They are the kinds of places where every single one of Winnipeg's most famous musicians has started from. Nevermind that they actually CONTRIBUTE to our otherwise meagre nightlife and pedestrian foot traffic. Sadly, due to economics, they are also some of the most regular casualties of downtown redevelopment.

This leaves us with just Times Change(d), The Cavern and The Pyramid. Slim pickings indeed.

Now, there are perhaps a few silver linings ... the redevelopment of The Albert is a great sign for the Exchange. The family that has owned that hotel for DECADES has steadfastly refused to sell for a long long time. The fact that someone finally made it worth their while is an impressive statement about the solidifying economics of The Exchange. And its a pleasant 'fuck you' to the losers behind the St. Charles plan.

American Apparel is simple yet chic clothing that is union-made in North America (downtown Los Angeles to be exact). It is non-sweatshop and is generally regarded as one of the more ethically run companies. It also is predominantly urban. I don't go to malls, but I do walk the streets of this city and many larger ones and American Apparel has prominent streetfront retail operations on most hip strips on this continent. It would not be investing in Winnipeg if all of the little boutique fashion stores that have popped up in the Village and The Exchange weren't finding success ... so its also a good sign that this fashion-luddite town may slowly (ever-so-slowly) be catching up a bit. (Winnipeg is EASILY five years behind the fashion world, at the best of times.) Its also the first retail 'chain' opening since M.E.C. that hasn't had parking as part of their plans but instead incorporates itself into the urban streetscape.

The hole that will be left by The Albert and The Collective closings, with any karmic fortuitous luck, will be filled by a venue or two that will be broader in scope. Winnipeg has long lacked venues that one goes to just to go. Times Change(d) on Main is the only place that has a built in culture, a built in crowd -- but its also the only real Roots bar in town, and has a happy co-existence with the Windsor.

Calgary has Broken City. Montreal has Casa del Popolo, and The Green Room. Saskatoon has Amigo's. Toronto has a good handful of 'em.

Each of these places have creative MENU'S (gasp! the thought of it!) and are destination spots for local scenesters and music fans at virtually any time of the day. And by golly, it is time that some entrepreneur realized that this is such a no-brainer for Winnipeg. The Blue Note used to thrive on this very model. In fact, if any of you knows someone with $100k just kicking around, I will be more than happy to design, install the soundsystem, advertise, book bands AND do sound for a new club/resto.

[trueviking]

it seemed to indicate in the paper that the new owner of the albert wanted to maintain involvement in the local music scene...didnt he say he wanted to enhance it by getting people who have stopped going there to return by relocating the people living above?...or does that kill the point of it?...it would be a real shame if it closed for good...its a great place to watch a band.

i wonder if there is a way for the rock and roll centre to fill any void in this...might be too big and costly for a local act when it is all said and done....might be something worth pursuing in the future though....do you want to work for canad inns poot?

we are already on the american apparel web site:
http://americanapparel.net/storelocations/metroareas.asp?metroareaid=125

[1ajs]

hmm why not go after some one to take over the manwin and turn it from the ruffest bar in town into to the most rockin hard core punk bar is the country?

would go well with the artist villige near by and get someone to buy the salvation army building and gut it and sterize that polace and turn it into studios

[Pootkao]

I dunno Vike... I don't see how "boutique hotel and spa" and "punk rock bar" go together. If you can come up with a plan that pleases both crowds, giv'r. I, and a lot of others, will be all ears. Bringing 40-somethings to the Albert isn't possible with the current styles of music on tap there. Its gonna be watered down to be a mere shadow of its current form.

Which is fine I suppose, he just shouldn't make claims about maintaining and relating to a music scene he most likely knows nothing about.

And yeah, I can't see the Rock n Roll museum being able to fill the void. Too big. Too corporate. That said, if CanadInns were interested in doing something else tied in somehow, it could work. They'd just have to ensure that their logo wasn't anywhere in god's creation near it as its an instant cred-killer. And yes, I'd be happy to develop that concept for them.

You're most correct, iajs (even if your spelling still isn't) ... as has already started, Winnipeg's independant arts and music community will continue making the move to the Main Street strip.

At some point there better be some goddamn history book that seriously thanks Winnipeg's artists for saving The Exchange first, and then Skid Row. The dull suburbanite wankers of this town are gonna owe us big.

[1ajs]

At some point there better be some goddamn history book that seriously thanks Winnipeg's artists for saving The Exchange first, and then Skid Row. The dull suburbanite wankers of this town are gonna owe us big.

alot of it goes back to crazzy walter........ may he rest in peac :wah:

[newflyer]

I dunno Vike... I don't see how "boutique hotel and spa" and "punk rock bar" go together. If you can come up with a plan that pleases both crowds, giv'r. I, and a lot of others, will be all ears. Bringing 40-somethings to the Albert isn't possible with the current styles of music on tap there. Its gonna watered down to be a mere shadow of its current form.

Which is fine I suppose, he just shouldn't make claims about maintaining and relating to a music scene he most likely knows nothing about.

And yeah, I can't see the Rock n Roll museum being able to fill the void. Too big. Too corporate. That said, if CanadInns were interested in doing something else tied in somehow, it could work. They'd just have to ensure that their logo wasn't anywhere in god's creation near it as its an instant cred-killer. And yes, I'd be happy to develop that concept for them.

You're most correct, iajs (even if your spelling still isn't) ... as has already started, Winnipeg's independant arts and music community will continue making the move to the Main Street strip.

At some point there better be some goddamn history book that seriously thanks Winnipeg's artists for saving The Exchange first, and then Skid Row. The dull suburbanite wankers of this town are gonna owe us big.

I hear what you are saying .. and understand your fustration.
The reality in many cities revitalized innercore area, has seen condos and mid to upscale retail move into an area after the artsies establish traffic in a forgotten section of a city. It has happened in NYC and Chicago .. and now it happening in Winnipeg. Its really a sign of progress, when investment moves into an area, even though it ussually results in some displacement of others. The end result will be new artistic areas forming along Main .. occupying other forgotten and or otherwise underused establishments.

As the exchange becomes more popular and attracts more investments, the makeup of the area will change. In some ways it the price of progress.... but seeing how other areas will benefit by the added interest of the music and artist scene .. it can be considered a very good thing from that point of view.

[Andy6]

The dull suburbanite wankers of this town are gonna owe us big.

You'll be a dull suburbanite wanker by then. :) Why don't you invest some of your fortune and start up one of these places -- I don't see who could be better at it.

[rgalston]

Haven't read all of this thread, but according the Free Press story last Sunday, Wayne, owner of the Royal Albert for the past 17 years, is planning to buy/has bought Winnipeg's oldest hostillery, The Winnipeg Hotel on south Main. I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to book rock acts there.

There is presently no shortage of dingy hotels downtown that could potentially serve as small-midsized music venues.

Edit: Having read the entire thread now, I'll agree with Pootkao that it's a little sad to see those places go. For me, it's mainly for sentimental reasons: I spent many young and stupid nights in both those places, particularly the Albert.

But it's precisely the types of people that these places drew as cool, dirty nightspots that eventually drew American Apparel (Die Maschine) and owners with money (Royal Albert) to them. Starving artists and their hipster patrons are usually the ones to scream the loudest against "gentrification" (no small feat in a city that has become pretty good at despising wealth), but they are usually the single biggest progenitors of it.

[h0twired]

Haven't read all of this thread, but according the Free Press story last Sunday, Wayne, owner of the Royal Albert for the past 17 years, is planning to buy/has bought Winnipeg's oldest hostillery, The Winnipeg Hotel on south Main. I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to book rock acts there.

There is presently no shortage of dingy hotels downtown that could potentially serve as small-midsized music venues.

Edit: Having read the entire thread now, I'll agree with Pootkao that it's a little sad to see those places go. For me, it's mainly for sentimental reasons: I spent many young and stupid nights in both those places, particularly the Albert.

But it's precisely the types of people that these places drew as cool, dirty nightspots that eventually drew American Apparel (Die Maschine) and owners with money (Royal Albert) to them. Starving artists and their hipster patrons are usually the ones to scream the loudest against "gentrification" (no small feat in a city that has become pretty good at despising wealth), but they are usually the single biggest progenitors of it.

Isn't the Winnipeg Hotel where the Times Change(d) is currently?

I heard recently that the block where the Times Change(d) is was sold and there were rumours that they might be displaced.

Hopefully not.

[1ajs]

Isn't the Winnipeg Hotel where the Times Change(d) is currently?

I heard recently that the block where the Times Change(d) is was sold and there were rumours that they might be displaced.

Hopefully not.

knows some who works at the winnipeg hotel lol should give him a shout see if he knows whats going on

[trueviking]

I dunno Vike... I don't see how "boutique hotel and spa" and "punk rock bar" go together. If you can come up with a plan that pleases both crowds, giv'r. I, and a lot of others, will be all ears. Bringing 40-somethings to the Albert isn't possible with the current styles of music on tap there. Its gonna be watered down to be a mere shadow of its current form.

Which is fine I suppose, he just shouldn't make claims about maintaining and relating to a music scene he most likely knows nothing about.

And yeah, I can't see the Rock n Roll museum being able to fill the void. Too big. Too corporate. That said, if CanadInns were interested in doing something else tied in somehow, it could work. They'd just have to ensure that their logo wasn't anywhere in god's creation near it as its an instant cred-killer. And yes, I'd be happy to develop that concept for them.


yeah, points taken....any idea how big a space would be needed?

[Archiseek]

Isn't the Winnipeg Hotel where the Times Change(d) is currently?

I heard recently that the block where the Times Change(d) is was sold and there were rumours that they might be displaced.

Hopefully not.


this is the Winnipeg Hotel
http://canada.archiseek.com/manitoba/winnipeg/downtown/main_street/winnipeg_lge.html

and this is where Times Change(d) is I think
http://canada.archiseek.com/manitoba/winnipeg/downtown/main_street/232_234_lge.html

[drew]

Although it may be too big a venue as a direct replacement, I still think that vacant church (christian science?) at River and Nassau would make an ideal mid-size live music venue.

The interior of the "auditorium" space in there is unbelievable. All hardwood floor, wide open, no columns, square in shape, great location. It's shame to destroy that interior for condos...

I think I'll agree with what's been mentioned previously that Winnipeg has countless replacements for these types of smallish, run-down live music venues.

[fengshui]

Bring back the Blue Note, please! I wish I had $100K to give you Pootkao. In my younger days, every Friday/Saturday night ended up there until well past closing, drinking the cinnamon coffee and reliving the events of the night.

Although the Nassau church is a good idea, I'm not sure the urban hipsters would find middle class Crescentwood to their liking. Probably zoning hassles to, especially with perceived noise issues.

[Pootkao]

You'll be a dull suburbanite wanker by then. :) Why don't you invest some of your fortune and start up one of these places -- I don't see who could be better at it.

Heh heh... fortune, eh? I think I can scrape together a couple hundred bucks. Will that do it? Sadly, arts and music do not pay very well, my good man.


But yes, all you guys are right ... there are a) many spots available to fill the gap, and b) it is the natural course of urban renewal. For those reasons, I'm not too concerned. Its just a sentimental loss, thats all.

Galston: you're quite right about hipsters being the largest progenators (sp?) of gentrification. Its one of the cute ironies of it all.

Vike: Space for 200-300 people.

Drew: While the Church of Christ Scientist would be cool, its acoustics will be completely inhospitable to rock bands.

Hotwired: The Winnipeg Hotel is a couple storefronts south of Times Change(d). Times isn't going anywhere.

[Pootkao]

i just spoke with the current booker of the Collective and the Albert. he confirmed that Wayne has in fact purchased the Winnipeg Hotel, but that the music thing there is still up in the air. it may end up being a blues and jazz thing (which would work well with Times and the Windsor also on that corner)

apparently there's plans to turn it into a hostel, though. we'll see how it plays out, and i'll keep you posted.

[Only The Lonely..]

It's too bad this fellow isn't buying the St.Charles instead.

[1ajs]

umm why not both?

[flatlander]

It's too bad this fellow isn't buying the St.Charles instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jorgensen buys the st charles too - or are you talking about the Winnipeg Hotel guy?

I tried to post before but ssp was acting up ... so what other venues are out there that might lend themselves to live music?

The Woodbine?
The Garrick?
The Occidental, although maybe they got rid of their liquor license.
The Chocolate Shop?
The Zoo? I realize it's already a live venue but it would be great to have something better in the village. Maybe the Gas Station Theatre? Wonder how its doing these days.

[Only The Lonely..]

The strange part is that none of those venues can really replicate the grit of the Albert. The Albert is blessed with an abundance of floor space for a club its size.

Its nice to see a proactive property owner like Jorgensen, but why does the exchange have to become the exclusive domain of neat and tidy Bed & Breakfasts and upper echelon shops?

Just as the small stores in 118 Albert contribute the the overall viability of the exchange as a healthy functioning neighbourhood, the contribution of the Albert to the area's counter culture is no less important.

[1ajs]

aww why not take the manwin and turn it into a rockin punk hang out