[freeweed]

Calgary parking rates most expensive in nation
Sarah McGinnis, Calgary Herald
Published: Friday, July 27, 2007

A two-metre slab of concrete bordered by two yellow painted lines has become some of the most valuable real estate in Calgary, as city drivers are shelling out the most money in the country for parking.

Colliers International declared Calgary the most expensive parking district in Canada as part of its seventh annual North America parking rate survey.

The steep costs are forcing some motorists to venture into rougher areas.

Every day, Hedi Clarkin parks in the East Village for $7 and walks about 10 blocks to her office in the Petro-Canada building. She'd love to leave her car closer to work, but can't afford rates that are higher than $20 a day.

"Nobody wants to walk in an area that's a little unsafe, but I'm willing to do that because it's the only way parking is affordable," Clarkin said.

While the Calgary Parking Authority says higher prices reflect Calgary's rapid population and economic growth, many drivers argue it's another example of how this city is becoming unaffordable.

"I think it's bad news," said Ward 8 Ald. Madeleine King. "These high parking rates are making Calgarians worried that they're making it not only less livable, but (worse) as a business sector because it's pushing costs up."

Motorists are spending an average of $350 per month to secure an unreserved parking spot in a Calgary lot, the report said.

A similar monthly stall costs an average of $48.15 less in Toronto, $87.91 less in Montreal, $140.95 less in Vancouver and a whopping $190 less per month in Edmonton, said the 2007 report released this week.

Calgary drivers are paying even more of a premium to secure reserved parking. The average reserved stall here is the priciest in the country at $475 per month -- $53.20 per month more than a similar reserved spot in Toronto.

Even daily parking fees are at record levels, with Calgary and Toronto sharing the dubious distinction of having the highest rates.

It costs about $20 per day to secure parking for the day in both cities.

Adam Abdalla doesn't even contemplate parking downtown because he can't pay the rates. It's not right that a city of one million people is charging more than bigger cities, he said.

"With the boom, it seems like everybody is trying to skim some of the cream," Abdalla said.

"I don't think anyone is particularly surprised by the survey," said Calgary Downtown Association spokeswoman Maggie Schofield.

Parking is the No. 1 issue for the downtown business community. While businesses are most concerned about the availability and pricing of hourly parking, access to daily stalls for their staff is also critical, she said.

Paid parking has even become a recruiting tool for many companies hoping to lure new employees, she said.

Lorne Resnechenko has watched underground monthly parking rates at his downtown office soar from $250 two years ago to more than $400 today. His company covers his reserved spot, but Resnechenko said it's hard for many other workers to continue donating such a large portion of their paycheques to parking.

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Yeesh.

[The Kid]

Ya, I parked downtown for I swear just under two hours yesterday and was presented with a $17.00 tab. Someones getting rich!

[The Geographer]

Ya, I was surprised when I read that (and saw it on a Global clip). It is fine to present peoples' concerns about parking, but to not even mention transit as a substitute - or moving to the Beltline as a long-term solution - is just bad reporting. The best they could seem to get was an interview with some woman in an SUV who thought the city was just trying to gouge her.

[mersar]

Well Alderman Burrows was blasting the city over the lack of parking AND a lack of transit as a suitable alternative according to the news I heard on the radio on my way in this morning. He also tried distancing himself from the issue, citing a 'past council before his time' was at fault for all the problems. And of course made no mention about trying to push for a solution involving improving transit.

[93JC]

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Yeesh.

If I lived way out in some suburb I wouldn't take transit...

[freeweed]

If I lived way out in some suburb I wouldn't take transit...

:shrug:

Is saving a few minutes worth $20/day? Depends on what's more important to you, I guess. Also depends on how well-serviced your area is by transit. For me, it's about a 10 minute difference - assuming the roads aren't backed up due to an accident or weather conditions (so most days driving is admittedly quicker).

Never mind the fact that unless you already have a reserved parking spot (and waiting lists are now years long for these), you have to get to downtown before around 7am to get a spot. Unless you want to walk 10-20 blocks to the office. Which can entirely negate the time savings from driving. ;)

So for those folks that like leaving the house by 6:30, and have several hundred a month extra to blow, driving makes sense. Wish I had that kind of money to waste though. the difference between a monthly transit pass and a parking spot is pretty much the cost of my car payment alone.

[Boris2k7]

Every day, Hedi Clarkin parks in the East Village for $7 and walks about 10 blocks to her office in the Petro-Canada building. She'd love to leave her car closer to work, but can't afford rates that are higher than $20 a day.

"Nobody wants to walk in an area that's a little unsafe, but I'm willing to do that because it's the only way parking is affordable," Clarkin said.


Aha, we can kill two birds with one stone! Potentially 3? Or more? As we raise parking rates, the amount of foot traffic will make the East Village more desirable as well as development. Perception of... uh... unsafety, will also decrease, benefiting downtown as a whole.

At the same time, some people will give up driving and take transit, while those who walk will be able to cut back on their fat... hopefully enough that they will be able to fit in the door of a smaller vehicle, and cut the rates of heart disease and other obesity-related illnesses.

The amount of smaller vehicles will free up space, which we can convert to short-stay or bike parking. It would also have the effect of cutting down on emissions, making the air more breathable for pedestrians.

The increase in transit usage will push new lines and a multi-billion dollar, tri-level investment (that is, fed., prov. muni.) in urban transit. The new lines will reach across the city and open up more land for dense development and potentially multiple downtown nodes in the Central Industrial and Chinook Areas. TOD's will flourish and suburbs become less sprawly as they are more transit oriented.

As Calgary slows it's outward growth, a large percentage of the budget that used to go to road funding will be able to be redirected to the municipal debt. Once that is paid off, the city will have millions more per year for transit funding and affordable housing.

Once the transit and housing infrastructure is beefed up, the city will become even more attractive and livable, attracting residents and businesses from abroad. There will be larger strains on the other prairie provinces and more international migration.

And then we will surpass Toronto...

All thanks to higher parking rates.

Yes, I kid. A little. ;)

[KrisYYC]

Entitlement mentality at its best. "I can't afford one of the good spots, so I have to park further away, no fair!!" These people think they're entitled to cheap parking? C'mon, whatever happened to supply and demand? Calgary has a good alternative (LRT), These people should be thanking the city for catering the LRT lines for people working downtown!

So it's no longer affordable for these suburban slobs to park their SUV's down town and now the poor souls are either forced to walk farther, or take the LRT. Boo f@cking hoo.

Kris

[h0twired]

If I lived way out in some suburb I wouldn't take transit...

Transit out in the suburbs (especially if you have an express bus) is really not much slower than driving.

I prefer transit over driving in the winter because you don't have to worry about lousy drivers.

[Wooster]

The tradeoff of restricting quantity of parking must be supplementing it with the best transit system possible. The City must live up to that promise. Does anyone else see the connection of having parking help pay for transit expansion? We are trying to replace an undesirable condition (single occupant commuting) to mass transit. Shouldn't a share of the undesirable condition and a punitive tax pay for the more desirable alternative? Instead Calgary Parking authority money just flows into general revenue, which flows much more quickly into roads.

[KrisYYC]

The tradeoff of restricting quantity of parking must be supplementing it with the best transit system possible. The City must live up to that promise. Does anyone else see the connection of having parking help pay for transit expansion? We are trying to replace an undesirable condition (single occupant commuting) to mass transit. Shouldn't a share of the undesirable condition and a punitive tax pay for the more desirable alternative?

Great point. Is there any movement at all in city council to have this implemented in some way?

[Wooster]

Of course not. That would make too much sense.

[The Kid]

Entitlement mentality at its best. "I can't afford one of the good spots, so I have to park further away, no fair!!" These people think they're entitled to cheap parking? C'mon, whatever happened to supply and demand? Calgary has a good alternative (LRT), These people should be thanking the city for catering the LRT lines for people working downtown!

So it's no longer affordable for these suburban slobs to park their SUV's down town and now the poor souls are either forced to walk farther, or take the LRT. Boo f@cking hoo.

Kris

I kind of agree with you. In my situation, my wife works in an office downtown and takes the LRT everyday even though she could have a subsidized parking spot which would only cost her $150 month right beside her office.

For me, I have to pack a ton of samples to do my job in several suitcases and have many clients downtown. LRT just does not work for me. I don't think I should get screwed royally for parking because I can't use the LRT. I wish more people that actually work in offices all day downtown would take the LRT which would free up some space for people that are constantly in and out of the core such as myself which would bring the ridiculous rates down. And many days, I just drive around in circles looking for a spot, especially in winter when alot of people decide to drive and only want to be eco friendly and walk or take LRT when it's not too cold.

I don't consider myself a "suburban slob in an SUV", just a guy trying to make a buck and my clients happen to be downtown.

[Calgarian]

If you don't want to pay for expensive parking, and don't like transit, MOVE DOWNTOWN!!!

[Canterra]

If you don't want to pay for expensive parking, and don't like transit, MOVE DOWNTOWN!!!

Or at least within walking or biking distance of downtown.
And do it soon.

Can anbody guess what it will cost in 2010?

Monthly Parking $ 750
Litre of gas $ 2.50

[Champion3]

An interesting question was asked in a letter to the Calgary Herald: If the city can spend a whole bunch of money on new vending machines and cellphone payment for parking, why won't it upgrade transit to be easier to use by installing doing the same thing? Or at least installing ticket machines that dispense change?

[93JC]

:shrug:

Is saving a few minutes worth $20/day?

Potentially, yeah. Not really in my case, but for some people it is.

Also depends on how well-serviced your area is by transit.

Which is what I was getting at. I think it's a pretty safe assumption to say most of the 'burbs have comparatively awful transit service, which is a combination of distance and god-awful suburban roads explicitly designed to keep people off the roads.

For me, it's about a 10 minute difference - assuming the roads aren't backed up due to an accident or weather conditions (so most days driving is admittedly quicker).

Same with me, but then again I live in North Glenmore. Even so, because of the bus schedule I leave earlier than a hypothetically would have to if the bus showed up at exactly the right time to get me to work at 8.

If I lived in, say, Evergreen, I'd seriously consider driving to work every day no matter the financial burden. Better to waste $20 a day for a parking spot than spend an extra hour or two on a bus every day. A few hundred dollars a month would be well worth it if it kept me sane.

Never mind the fact that unless you already have a reserved parking spot (and waiting lists are now years long for these), you have to get to downtown before around 7am to get a spot.

Oh balderdash. I can get a spot next to work after 8, let alone 7. Granted, I work in the West End near the train tracks...

And, while I don't personally have a reserved spot, I have access to a few on certain days of the week, so once in a while I'll drive. :naughty:




Some people really do have to drive to work though. My bosses do so not just because they have reserved stalls, but because they're in and out of the office all day. If they have a meeting downtown they'll take the train usually, but if it's in Victoria Park or any further it would waste too much time to take transit, and to take a cab would be much less cost effective.

How about all those contractors? Tradesmen will often take transit, but the contractors need to bring in equipment all the time. Most people here obviously hold downtown hi-rises near and dear to them, and are loving the fact that more are going up all the time. At the same time the lack of parking is making every single construction job more expensive. Hell, on one of my jobs the contractors were trying to bring two AC units into the building, but the delivery truck couldn't get in at the loading dock: under normal circumstances the truck would have parked and waited for a few minutes for space at the dock, but there was no parking so they turned around and went back to the warehouse! It delayed the project two weeks, all because of a lack of parking!



Anyway, back to the original point: transit is not always a viable alternative. To say to people 'shut up, quit whining, take transit' isn't fair, because for many people transit is crap.

Transit out in the suburbs (especially if you have an express bus) is really not much slower than driving.

...if your bus shows up on time... :hell:

(I've spent many a winter night standing at my bus stop for an hour and a half, waiting for bus. Fortunately they showed up most of the time. Sometimes it didn't, in which cases I was SCREWED and it took be almost four hours to get home.)

I prefer transit over driving in the winter because you don't have to worry about lousy drivers.

I prefer driving under any circumstances, as I love to drive. But I especially prefer driving in the winter in order to prevent the aforementioned scenario where I'm stuck waiting in -30 weather for some bus that might or might not show up.

[jeffwhit]

We're number 1! We're number 1!

[Boris2k7]

If I lived in, say, Evergreen, I'd seriously consider driving to work every day no matter the financial burden. Better to waste $20 a day for a parking spot than spend an extra hour or two on a bus every day. A few hundred dollars a month would be well worth it if it kept me sane.

I live in Evergreen, I can acknowledge the bus routes aren't great, but I take transit everyday and have no problems. Getting TO work is at most 20 minutes longer than by car. Getting from work can be longer, but then again, a brisk 20 minute walk gets the job done as well.

Some people really do have to drive to work though. My bosses do so not just because they have reserved stalls, but because they're in and out of the office all day. If they have a meeting downtown they'll take the train usually, but if it's in Victoria Park or any further it would waste too much time to take transit, and to take a cab would be much less cost effective.

What, they can't walk from the damn station? It takes at most 10 minutes. Sheer laziness.

How about all those contractors? Tradesmen will often take transit, but the contractors need to bring in equipment all the time. Most people here obviously hold downtown hi-rises near and dear to them, and are loving the fact that more are going up all the time. At the same time the lack of parking is making every single construction job more expensive. Hell, on one of my jobs the contractors were trying to bring two AC units into the building, but the delivery truck couldn't get in at the loading dock: under normal circumstances the truck would have parked and waited for a few minutes for space at the dock, but there was no parking so they turned around and went back to the warehouse! It delayed the project two weeks, all because of a lack of parking!

So set aside more of the existing spots for delivery trucks and short stay. There is no reason to add more parking.

Anyway, back to the original point: transit is not always a viable alternative. To say to people 'shut up, quit whining, take transit' isn't fair, because for many people transit is crap.

It isn't always viable because 1) people are unwilling to make some sacrifices in their lifestyle because of the selfish me, me, me, me attitude; and 2) we still refuse to make it a political priority.

I prefer driving under any circumstances, as I love to drive. But I especially prefer driving in the winter in order to prevent the aforementioned scenario where I'm stuck waiting in -30 weather for some bus in that might or might show up.

Sounds a bit thin-skinned to me. You can certainly prefer what you want, just don't get the idea that you are entitled to cheap gas, a parking spot, and uncongested roadways. I, for one, will be standing at the bus stop...

[You Need A Thneed]

How about all those contractors? Tradesmen will often take transit, but the contractors need to bring in equipment all the time. Most people here obviously hold downtown hi-rises near and dear to them, and are loving the fact that more are going up all the time. At the same time the lack of parking is making every single construction job more expensive. Hell, on one of my jobs the contractors were trying to bring two AC units into the building, but the delivery truck couldn't get in at the loading dock: under normal circumstances the truck would have parked and waited for a few minutes for space at the dock, but there was no parking so they turned around and went back to the warehouse! It delayed the project two weeks, all because of a lack of parking!


I have dropped off some stuff at the lougheed building that's far less important than Air Handling Units, I just pulled up on 1st Street, in the driving lane, and turned my hazards on. Sure the people behind you might not like it, but what are you going to do?

For something as important as a Air Handling Unit, the contractor could always have paid to have the parking meters hooded down at city hall (assuming there were meters along the stretch were the project was), then they would have no problem. Frankly, I'm surprised more people don't go do that to a parking meter right outside their place of work. Hooding a meter for a month (and then parking where the meter is hooded) is almost certainly cheaper then having a reserved parking spot.

[chuber]

One thing that always surprises me is how so many companies downtown will subsidize (or pay 100%) for an employee to have a parking spot downtown but won't cover the cost of a bus pass. When I used to work downtown, I could be reimbursed up to $200 a month for parking (in Edmonton at the time that meant I could basically get a spot anywhere) but it was more convienent for me to take transit at the time but they refused to pay the $60 a month cost of that.

That company still has the same policy and so do many others I know (I'm sure it is similar in Calgary) and I can't believe it.

[240glt]

A dubious honour to say the least.

Someone should e-mail the Sun... I noticed this morning that the banner ad on their front page reads "Drive here to work" (a picture of downtown) and "live here to drive" (a picture promoting some far & gone suburb next to a golf course)

I mean really....

[401_King]

its only gonna get worse when those lots start disappearing eh

[freeweed]

For me, I have to pack a ton of samples to do my job in several suitcases and have many clients downtown. LRT just does not work for me. I don't think I should get screwed royally for parking because I can't use the LRT. I wish more people that actually work in offices all day downtown would take the LRT which would free up some space for people that are constantly in and out of the core such as myself which would bring the ridiculous rates down. And many days, I just drive around in circles looking for a spot, especially in winter when alot of people decide to drive and only want to be eco friendly and walk or take LRT when it's not too cold.

I don't consider myself a "suburban slob in an SUV", just a guy trying to make a buck and my clients happen to be downtown.

And I couldn't agree with you more. But you're a very small minority. The vast majority of downtown workers work the same 9-5 (ish) schedule, Monday through Friday. They come in in the morning and go home in the evening. And yet a lot of them refuse to take transit.

Hey, if you enjoy paying $20/day, go for it. Just don't expect much sympathy. The annoying part is that people like yourself suffer as a result.

Anyone else remember the good old days when companies actually had things like "loading zones" and "visitor parking", so that the "I'm only going downtown for a short visit" wasn't such a bloody hassle? :hell:

Oh, and for the record: I'm a car person. I LOVE to drive. I'm that jerk who takes the car to pick up a couple of things at Sobey's, even though it's a 10 minute walk away. On Sundays when I work, when traffic isn't insane and I can park for free underground - I drive. Every time. I put an average of 35,000k on my car every year because I'm always in it (many trips to Banff, etc). But pay $300+ a month for parking (plus gas, plus milage accrued) for the day-to-day stuff, when there's a perfectly viable alternative (like there is for 95% of downtown workers)? No thanks.

[93JC]

I live in Evergreen, I can acknowledge the bus routes aren't great, but I take transit everyday and have no problems. Getting TO work is at most 20 minutes longer than by car. Getting from work can be longer, but then again, a brisk 20 minute walk gets the job done as well.

Sucks to be you.

What, they can't walk from the damn station? It takes at most 10 minutes. Sheer laziness.

I said Vic Park OR FURTHER. If one of them is going to say, GEC's office, he'll take the train to Centre Street and walk. If he's going to Crowfoot Business Centre he's going to drive, not fuck around on the train up to Dalhousie. If he's going to Banff for a meeting at the Sally Borden building, well... you know where I'm going with this.

It isn't always viable because 1) people are unwilling to make some sacrifices in their lifestyle because of the selfish me, me, me, me attitude; and 2) we still refuse to make it a political priority.

Fucking right it's me, me, me, me! If I'm not looking out for myself, who will?

Sounds a bit thin-skinned to me. You can certainly prefer what you want, just don't get the idea that you are entitled to cheap gas, a parking spot, and uncongested roadways. I, for one, will be standing at the bus stop...

I'm entitled to have as extensive and well-designed a road network as I can lobby my alderman and mayor for, as much parking as I can get them to build, and, well... there's not much I can do about gas prices. :D

You can stand around waiting for a bus until your fingers fall off, but I'd much prefer a more reliable bus service, and if the city can't do that for me then it's worth my while to pay for parking once in a while. I have exclusive domain to bitch to anyone who will listen about egregiously high parking rates and crappy transit service. :notacrook:

[93JC]

Anyone up for a bonfire in my back yard? :notacrook:

[KrisYYC]

Anyone up for a bonfire in my back yard? :notacrook:

Is there free parking?

[Boris2k7]

Is there free parking?

Just park on his front lawn...

[frinkprof]

93JC: Yes you are entitled to as much parking, freeflow traffic, etc. as you can successfully lobby your government for. Thing is that we are also entitled to as much transit as we can successfully lobby government for. Not trying to pick an argument with you, but just borrowing one of your points to make one of my own.

The thing is that to improve parking rates, it is much easier and in my opinion benificial to decrease demand, rather than increase supply. You don't have to get everyone out of their cars and on to transit. There are other alternatives. Walking, biking, living closer to work (for at least one partner in a couple), CARPOOLING, and also transit. If you get 15% of the people with at least one seat that is always empty for their commute in their vehicle to carpool, another 10% onto buses and the LRT, and some encouragement for biking, walking, and living close to work (collectively pulling say an extra 5-10% of 9-5ers out of their cars), the situation would be improved quite a bit while not getting large amounts of people to drastically alter their lifestyles.

I highlighted carpooling because I think it gets sorely overlooked as an alternative, even on this forum. Really, examine Memorial Drive, Bow Trail, and Macleod Trail inbound to the core at 7:30 AM on any given weekday. A staggering amount of personal vehicles have only one occupant. Take a typical community, say Woodbine. How many people within a 5 block radius (convenient enough for carpooling) are 9-5ers downtown and what percentage of those people carpool as opposed to drive themselves? My optimistic guess would be less than 20%.

[freeweed]

Anyone up for a bonfire in my back yard? :notacrook:

I think you're my one of my neighbours.

27 degrees above freezing, and they're having a FIRE. How much hotter does a person need it to be, exactly?

Ah well, you can take the trash out of the trailer, but...

[entheosfog]

When I worked in NE Calgary, the walk from the train (Max Bell) was about 20 minutes. A few co-workers were surprised I would walk all that way from the train when I could just drive my car from downtown. But a big factor I did take the train was because of the walk. That, and driving home through downtown to the Beltline wasn't worth the stress anymore. And I got home maybe 10 minutes later than if I had of drove.
I guess my point is that people wonder why North America has such high obesity rates. Well, lack of daily physical activity is one of those reason, I think...and many people out there think that having to walk to a bus stop or corner store may be too much effort when they could just hop in their vehicle.

[freeweed]

:previous: It's part of the reason I take transit in the first place. It pretty much forces me to walk at least a bit every day. That, and it gives me some reading time. But the walking is nice to get in, especially when I get lazy (like in our current 8th heat wave of the summer).

[dubiousmike]

Oh, and for the record: I'm a car person. I LOVE to drive. I'm that jerk who takes the car to pick up a couple of things at Sobey's, even though it's a 10 minute walk away. On Sundays when I work, when traffic isn't insane and I can park for free underground - I drive. Every time. I put an average of 35,000k on my car every year because I'm always in it (many trips to Banff, etc). But pay $300+ a month for parking (plus gas, plus milage accrued) for the day-to-day stuff, when there's a perfectly viable alternative (like there is for 95% of downtown workers)? No thanks.

Hey man, I'm certainly not going to begrudge you on that one. I love to drive too. But on windey backroads and empty freeways. I was never really able to glean much driving satisfaction from a trip to Sobey's. I generally find urban driving to be an irritating and frustrating affair. But hey, to each his own.

I gave up permanent vehicle ownership four years ago. It wasn't for philosophical reasons. It wasn't because I thought driving was stupid or because I thought drivers were assholes.

It was a simple matter of sacrifice for an overall improvement in quality of life.

Let's do a little thought experiment: Consider what you pay in an average month in order to finance/lease, fuel, park, and maintain a vehicle. Let's leave insurance aside for now.

Now take that number, and imagine applying that to your monthly mortgage payment, or rent. And imagine where you could be living. Imagine applying that number to a couple nights dining out each week. Imagine taking a couple extra vacations per year. IMAGINE PAYING OFF YOUR STUDENT LOANS BEFORE YOUR 30TH BIRTHDAY. That's where I'm at right now. I can't, in my own mind, justify the expense of driving. Under my set of circumstances, it just ain't worth it.

I'm absolutely sympathetic to those of you who need a vehicle because you're being constantly yanked around the city for your work or to drop off and pick up your kids and so forth. With gas prices what they are and parking what it is you guys are getting totally fucked. The system is sucking your money right out of your wallet for something that could quite legitimately be considered a basic necessity. I relate. I sympathize.

But for those of you who are like me. Single, childless, mid-twenties, pseudo-professional. Think about it. I know you think of your car as the physical embodiment of freedom. I used to think the same thing, but four years after the fact, I'm realizing that my car was more like a ball and chain. Just another annoying goddamn thing I had to worry about and deal with and pay for. If I wanna go some place I can take a cab or a town car. If I wanna buy an appliance or some heavy thing, I can get it delivered. A car is by no means a necessity for your average consumer needs. Not in the city. At the end of the day, my life is just better without it.

Ditch the fucking thing and join me downtown. ;)

[freeweed]

Good comments. A lot has to do with what you do with your life. It's good to see people who can post something that's more of a resonable balance, instead of the usual "OMG I demand on 2 SUVs and I must park downtown because Transit is for lusers!!" vs "no one should have a car and the city should never put one dime into roads because I can live without one, so should everyone else!!" extremes.

Me? I'm a garage sale whore. I've done it on rollerblades, but with Calgary's hills my (post-30) body just isn't up to the repeated high-speed falls. :haha: Bike's always an option, but I've just never gotten used to a helmet.

The smartest thing I ever did was to never take a single student loan (and work my ass off before and during school), so now I can afford my garage sale commuting, if you want to look at it that way. Plus, I pretty much LIVE in the mountains on weekends, and hitchhiking isn't my cup of tea. Renting a car for every time I go out would end up costing me more than a car payment/insurance anyway.

But, it's a small car so I still have to rent a truck or get things delivered if they're of any decent size, so I'm with you on that. :tup:

[Western Spaghetti]

These parking hikes really piss me off. I don't mind seeing the monthly rates jump, but the hikes in short term parking really are going to kill business downtown. They need to have a parked dedicated to short term parking only, and make it cheap.

I used to like going downtown to meet up with friends for lunch, etc.. but not anymore.

[dubiousmike]

The point about tripping out to the mountains is a good one. I do miss having the ability to go anywhere within a few hundred miles on no time's notice. Feeling blue? Feeling hemmed in? Get in the car and just fucking go. I miss that. But I've substituted it for 16-20 mini-vacations per year. You live in your car? I live in airports. It is what it is.

[entheosfog]

The point about tripping out to the mountains is a good one. I do miss having the ability to go anywhere within a few hundred miles on no time's notice. Feeling blue? Feeling hemmed in? Get in the car and just fucking go. I miss that. But I've substituted it for 16-20 mini-vacations per year. You live in your car? I live in airports. It is what it is.

Which is the reason I held on to my car when I moved to Vancouver. Sure transit gets me to work everyday and downtown on the weekends (very efficiently, mind you) but sometimes it's nice to just hop in the car and go somewhere where transit won't go (like Seattle in 2hours as opposed to 4+ by bus). I'm a big transit pusher but I do think having a car is nice sometimes, too.

[Boris2k7]

Good comments. A lot has to do with what you do with your life. It's good to see people who can post something that's more of a resonable balance, instead of the usual "OMG I demand on 2 SUVs and I must park downtown because Transit is for lusers!!" vs "no one should have a car and the city should never put one dime into roads because I can live without one, so should everyone else!!" extremes.

This lifestyle choice as a basis for judgement is just a cop-out and a bunch of utter bullshit. It's the same thing people use to justify their living out in the suburbs. Oh, these practices aren't harmful! They aren't making our citie's worse off, cause increased infrastructure spending, have enormous environmental impacts, and make our cities less livable. It's a fucking LIFESTYLE CHOICE! :rolleyes:

No offense against you, personally, freeweed. It just happens to be a reoccurring argument that I very much disagree with.

And then, people scream "social engineering!" and "government interference!" when planners try to fight back against such destructive trends. Idiots.

Yeah, I can agree with services such and landscaping and electricians using work vehicles to get around. But honestly, when you are talking your snotty son/daughter to his/her soccer/ballet event, could you be bothered to at least carpool and fill up a vehicle to capacity?

However, I do not sympathize with people who cry out that they choose to drive when transit is a perfectly acceptable option, and then get hit by rising parking and gas prices. Jack those prices up, baby!

[Calgarian]

When I worked in NE Calgary, the walk from the train (Max Bell) was about 20 minutes. A few co-workers were surprised I would walk all that way from the train when I could just drive my car from downtown. But a big factor I did take the train was because of the walk. That, and driving home through downtown to the Beltline wasn't worth the stress anymore. And I got home maybe 10 minutes later than if I had of drove.
I guess my point is that people wonder why North America has such high obesity rates. Well, lack of daily physical activity is one of those reason, I think...and many people out there think that having to walk to a bus stop or corner store may be too much effort when they could just hop in their vehicle.

I hear you man, I walk to work, then home for lunch, then back to work, then home again (which is about 9 blocks and 12 minutes each way) and some people are amazed. We live in a truly lazy society, and it is really sad because my taxes pay for heart surgery for these lazy assholes that will drive 2 blocks to get a slurpy from 7-11.

[Calgarian]

Hey man, I'm certainly not going to begrudge you on that one. I love to drive too. But on windey backroads and empty freeways. I was never really able to glean much driving satisfaction from a trip to Sobey's. I generally find urban driving to be an irritating and frustrating affair. But hey, to each his own.

I gave up permanent vehicle ownership four years ago. It wasn't for philosophical reasons. It wasn't because I thought driving was stupid or because I thought drivers were assholes.

It was a simple matter of sacrifice for an overall improvement in quality of life.

Let's do a little thought experiment: Consider what you pay in an average month in order to finance/lease, fuel, park, and maintain a vehicle. Let's leave insurance aside for now.

Now take that number, and imagine applying that to your monthly mortgage payment, or rent. And imagine where you could be living. Imagine applying that number to a couple nights dining out each week. Imagine taking a couple extra vacations per year. IMAGINE PAYING OFF YOUR STUDENT LOANS BEFORE YOUR 30TH BIRTHDAY. That's where I'm at right now. I can't, in my own mind, justify the expense of driving. Under my set of circumstances, it just ain't worth it.

I'm absolutely sympathetic to those of you who need a vehicle because you're being constantly yanked around the city for your work or to drop off and pick up your kids and so forth. With gas prices what they are and parking what it is you guys are getting totally fucked. The system is sucking your money right out of your wallet for something that could quite legitimately be considered a basic necessity. I relate. I sympathize.

But for those of you who are like me. Single, childless, mid-twenties, pseudo-professional. Think about it. I know you think of your car as the physical embodiment of freedom. I used to think the same thing, but four years after the fact, I'm realizing that my car was more like a ball and chain. Just another annoying goddamn thing I had to worry about and deal with and pay for. If I wanna go some place I can take a cab or a town car. If I wanna buy an appliance or some heavy thing, I can get it delivered. A car is by no means a necessity for your average consumer needs. Not in the city. At the end of the day, my life is just better without it.

Ditch the fucking thing and join me downtown. ;)

I'm with you man, I got rid of my car a year ago and I couldn't be happier with the $3-500 a month I save as a result. The only time I miss it is when I need to go to the grocery store, or when I need to run to Wal-Mart. Other than that, it's freedom baby. haha

[Canterra]

I was paying $120/month to park downtown in the early 90's while renting a place in Edgemont and I thought that was too much. I made a choice after that to buy a place closer to downtown (10k) with the plan to start biking to work.
The money I saved over the years on parking, gas and insurance helped me pay off my mortgage alot quicker with the added benefits of getting regular exercise and reducing my ecological footprint.

My point is, like mike was imagining about paying off debts quicker, is that alternatives can present opportunities.

[freeweed]

Boris: all I can say about your comments is, if you stick to the same opinion over the next 20 years as your lifestyle inevitably changes, I'll have a ton of respect for you, man. :tup:

Shit, now I have to lurk on these forums FOREVER just to see how this turns out. :haha:

[dubiousmike]

I'm with you man, I got rid of my car a year ago and I couldn't be happier with the $3-500 a month I save as a result. The only time I miss it is when I need to go to the grocery store, or when I need to run to Wal-Mart. Other than that, it's freedom baby. haha

Word. The grocery thing is probably the biggest pain in the ass. I'm lucky right now, living in the southwest corner of Hillhurst. I've got Safeway, I've got Sunnyside Market, I've got the farmer's market, and I've got Community Natural Foods right across the bridge.

I've wanted to live in Inglewood ever since I first moved here. But I could never resolve the grocery issue. Crossroads is just beyond reasonable walking distance and there really isn't much else in the area. Sucks balls. It's easily my favorite neighbourhood in Calgary.

When I lived in Chinatown in Victoria it was fucking beautiful. Ripe, fresh, cheap produce right on my doorstep. And sometimes they'd even have crazy shit. Fresh starfruit. Fresh passionfruit. Durian. And Victoria's Chinatown is really only one block. Calgary's got no excuse. Where are the open-air, streetside produce markets in Calgary anyway? I got it into my head one day to go down to Chinatown and see if I could get some things, and there was nothing. Okay, I guess the market next to Thi Thi with the rust-encrusted chest freezers full of expired, farmed fish counts as "something", but certainly not something I'd want to cook and eat. Oh, and there's a couple old ladies selling bok choi and celery and shit out of a plastic bag in some urine-soaked stairwell. Yay. Calgary's Chinatown really needs to step up its game. I went into some of the indoor markets and I think the fruitflies and cockroaches are still scampering around in my laundry. Fucking. Embarrassing.

[240glt]

I've wanted to live in Inglewood ever since I first moved here. But I could never resolve the grocery issue. Crossroads is just beyond reasonable walking distance and there really isn't much else in the area. Sucks balls. It's easily my favorite neighbourhood in Calgary.


Inglewood is my favorite Calgary neighborhood too. I remember driving out from BC to visit a friend who lived on 9th ave in one of those brick three story walk-ups in the mid nineties... back when it was still really dumpy, & thinking what an interesting area of the city... It's in an area of downtown that has still to realize its full potential, but has so many neat & offbeat features... I hope it can maintain that kitchiness as it develops

[dubiousmike]

Inglewood is my favorite Calgary neighborhood too. I remember driving out from BC to visit a friend who lived on 9th ave in one of those brick three story walk-ups in the mid nineties... back when it was still really dumpy, & thinking what an interesting area of the city... It's in an area of downtown that has still to realize its full potential, but has so many neat & offbeat features... I hope it can maintain that kitchiness as it develops

Aww, dude. I hope it's always dumpy.

Dumpy is good. If Inglewood ever becomes like Kensington I'll be sad beyond words. My mom likes to show me pictures of Kensington Road in the 70's. And whenever she shows me I get depressed and I wish I could have been my age 30 years ago. No pretense. No overpaid assholes sitting around on patios ogling affectedly attractive waitresses. No spoiled teenagers out to see and be seen. Just people doing their thing, being what they are, getting by as best they can.

That what's it's all about. And that's what Inglewood has somehow managed to retain.

[240glt]

^LOL no back then it was REALLY dumpy, like scary dumpy...

I'd be sad if it turned into Kensington too... I love the antique shops, the record store, that crazy military surplus store (if any of you Calgary forumers haven't been there... seriously, go check it out!) and all the really off-beat-ness that is still very prevalent in the area. The Harley Davidson diner has really good breakfasts too!

If I moved back, I'd live there in a second

[dubiousmike]

^LOL no back then it was REALLY dumpy, like scary dumpy...

I'd be sad if it turned into Kensington too... I love the antique shops, the record store, that crazy military surplus store (if any of you Calgary forumers haven't been there... seriously, go check it out!) and all the really off-beat-ness that is still very prevalent in the area. The Harley Davidson diner has really good breakfasts too!

If I moved back, I'd live there in a second


The one with the tail section of an airplane sticking out of it? And the weird lot full of old APCs and tanks and Jeeps? Fuckin' A.

[entheosfog]

Word. The grocery thing is probably the biggest pain in the ass. I'm lucky right now, living in the southwest corner of Hillhurst. I've got Safeway, I've got Sunnyside Market, I've got the farmer's market, and I've got Community Natural Foods right across the bridge.

I've wanted to live in Inglewood ever since I first moved here. But I could never resolve the grocery issue. Crossroads is just beyond reasonable walking distance and there really isn't much else in the area. Sucks balls. It's easily my favorite neighbourhood in Calgary.

When I lived in Chinatown in Victoria it was fucking beautiful. Ripe, fresh, cheap produce right on my doorstep. And sometimes they'd even have crazy shit. Fresh starfruit. Fresh passionfruit. Durian. And Victoria's Chinatown is really only one block. Calgary's got no excuse. Where are the open-air, streetside produce markets in Calgary anyway? I got it into my head one day to go down to Chinatown and see if I could get some things, and there was nothing. Okay, I guess the market next to Thi Thi with the rust-encrusted chest freezers full of expired, farmed fish counts as "something", but certainly not something I'd want to cook and eat. Oh, and there's a couple old ladies selling bok choi and celery and shit out of a plastic bag in some urine-soaked stairwell. Yay. Calgary's Chinatown really needs to step up its game. I went into some of the indoor markets and I think the fruitflies and cockroaches are still scampering around in my laundry. Fucking. Embarrassing.

I REALLY agree with you about the fresh fruit market thing. Calgary is seriously lacking in that department. Where I live now in Vancouver, Commercial Drive has 4 or 5 on the area and not only is the fruit and veg cheap, but everything's cheap. I love seeing all the fruit and veg displayed on the sidewalks. Plus, it makes having to go to a bigger supermarket like Safeway a rare thing. And Chinatown is the craziest I've ever seen. Things I would never know what to begin to do with. Like lizard on a stick :D

[entheosfog]

Aww, dude. I hope it's always dumpy.

Dumpy is good. If Inglewood ever becomes like Kensington I'll be sad beyond words. My mom likes to show me pictures of Kensington Road in the 70's. And whenever she shows me I get depressed and I wish I could have been my age 30 years ago. No pretense. No overpaid assholes sitting around on patios ogling affectedly attractive waitresses. No spoiled teenagers out to see and be seen. Just people doing their thing, being what they are, getting by as best they can.

That what's it's all about. And that's what Inglewood has somehow managed to retain.

I love Inglewood for that very reason! Unfortunately, I don't think it will stay that way forever...Although I'm surprised a place like the Lido Cafe has survived all these years in Kensington.

[401_King]

I REALLY agree with you about the fresh fruit market thing. Calgary is seriously lacking in that department. Where I live now in Vancouver, Commercial Drive has 4 or 5 on the area and not only is the fruit and veg cheap, but everything's cheap. I love seeing all the fruit and veg displayed on the sidewalks. Plus, it makes having to go to a bigger supermarket like Safeway a rare thing. And Chinatown is the craziest I've ever seen. Things I would never know what to begin to do with. Like lizard on a stick :D

i agree

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

Parking rates in cities around the world make even the priciest U.S and
Canadian cities seem reasonable.

Typical parking rates (Daily/Monthly, in U.S. dollars):

- London, City - $63.68 per day/$1198.00 per month

- London, West End - $63.68 per day/$1162.00 per month

- Tokyo - $84.20 per day/$702.00 per month

- Sydney - $45.83 per day/$688.00 per month

- Hong Kong - $25.75 per day/$682.00 per month

- Midtown Manhattan - $42 per day/$630.00 per month

- Moscow - $50.00 per day/$620.00 per month

- Zurich - $32.00 per day/$487.00 per month

- Paris - $36.45 per day/$324.00 per month

- Munich - $27.00 per day/$314.00 per month

- Toronto - $20.00 per day/$301.85 per month

- Frankfurt - $20.00 per day/$257.00 per month

[freeweed]

Calgary would be 8th on that list (for average monthly cost).

Scary.