[Bigtime]

A new mixed used proposal for Calgary's downtown core. LaCaille on 4th is slated to be around 50 stories with a mix of retail, residential, hotel, and office. They have a DP already so we could see this go ahead relatively quick. What do you all think of it?

http://www.lacaille.ca/photos/lacaille4/lacaille4_big01.jpg

http://www.lacaille.ca/photos/lacaille4/lacaille4_big02.jpg

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

I like it a lot!! Especially the recessed levels/tapering...

Looks like a mix of that dead 1000-footer from Philadelphia, the 4 Seasons going up in Denver (not color-wise), and a little bit of the Mansion on Peachtree in ATL.

what would the estimate height in feet be for this?

It looks huge!

[Boris2k7]

I like it a lot!! Especially the recessed levels/tapering...

Looks like a mix of that dead 1000-footer from Philadelphia, the 4 Seasons going up in Denver (not color-wise), and a little bit of the Mansion on Peachtree in ATL.

what would the estimate height in feet be for this?

It looks huge!

~ 180m/600' or so. That's just a guesstimate, based on previous images.

Depending on the accuracy of the renderings, it could be well over 200m. However, renderings can be quite misleading.

[Thinner6]

Now THAT's a building. Better than The Bow, Centennial, City Center, Penny Lane, Jamieson, and all the other massive projects underway in Calgary. I love them all but this just might be my favorite.

Let's hope she gets built! Go Calgary.

[Arriviste]

Oh god, that is terrible. WTF are they thinking when designing this shit. I guess they are pandering to the masses which makes sense in many respects. Unfortunately this thing doesn't appear at all representational of our time, and the current state of our technology. Seems to be a derivation of too many sources without an overriding philosophy. Contrived is the word I am looking for.

God damn, I should have not scrolled up again to reevaluate the pic. I nearly hurled. What a disaster... but I'm glad some folks like it.

[Thinner6]

Oh god, that is terrible. WTF are they thinking when designing this shit. I guess they are pandering to the masses which makes sense in many respects. Unfortunately this thing doesn't appear at all representational of our time, and the current state of our technology. Seems to be a derivation of too many sources without an overriding philosophy. Contrived is the word I am looking for.

God damn, I should have not scrolled up again to reevaluate the pic. I nearly hurled. What a disaster... but I'm glad some folks like it.

Well I didn't expect that response from you...:sly: An overwhelming majority of both local Calgary posters and outsiders seem to admire the project. Either way I'm sure it will grow on you.

[Western Spaghetti]

Looks great to me.

[Boris2k7]

Well I didn't expect that response from you...:sly: An overwhelming majority of both local Calgary posters and outsiders seem to admire the project. Either way I'm sure it will grow on you.

Oh, I assure you, it certainly will not...

[Thinner6]

Oh, I assure you, it certainly will not...

Can't win 'em all. :D

[jeffwhit]

^^I just spent 10 minutes defending Arriviste because he's one of the only if the only) forumer who always judges a project on its own merits (in his opinion of course) and NOT because of what city it's being built in. Although, I myself find this project does more good than harm for sure, having gotten to know Arriviste's tastes I am not in the least surprised and in fact glad to see he's still got his integrity intact.

[Arriviste]

Well I didn't expect that response from you...:sly: An overwhelming majority of both local Calgary posters and outsiders seem to admire the project. Either way I'm sure it will grow on you.

Doubt it will. I hate post modern crap like this. I really disagree with the mantra that dictated its design. Why re-hash antiquated design ideals when we can do so much better? I just can't get over the fact that this structure required little imagination to obtain the desired effect. The Bow set a precedent that I feel should be followed. This thing is taking the path of least resistance, and for that I have no respect.

PS, thanks Jeff! I can assure you I won't lose my stubbornness. I don't cave easily, for better or worse.
-BR

[Habanero]

^I respect the fact that you express your opinions, and everyone has right to them. It would be nice to see some examples of what type of architecture you do like, and not some example of an ultra modern 2 storey building. An example of a 50 storey structure. All I ever hear from you is the 'everything's so terrible' mantra.

Please feel free to show some examples of what we should be looking at. I don't mean this in a condescending manner, I'm serious.

[Arriviste]

^I respect the fact that you express your opinions, and everyone has right to them. It would be nice to see some examples of what type of architecture you do like, and not some example of an ultra modern 2 storey building. An example of a 50 storey structure. All I ever hear from you is the 'everything's so terrible' mantra.

Please feel free to show some examples of what we should be looking at. I don't mean this in a condescending manner, I'm serious.


For sure! I can name a few. First of The Bow, and the Gherkin. I adore Piano's NY times tower. I really like Aqua in Chicago also. Of course there are a half dozen Miesian scrapers that are perfection, but they are a half century old. Tuning torso is intriguing (for being the first of a style, and being true to its location and purpose). Etc etc etc. Al Burj hotel, although awkward, is interesting to me for its use of a fabric wall. I despise it's little spire.
There are MANY! and many more architects as well. I could go on and on and on. But really the Bow is the best example.
I'll post some pics of some real gems later on. I have a compilation of such structures at my apartment that I can scan later. I collected a ton of pics for a project last semester and they could help you understand where I am coming from.

[roman]

I absolutley love this building!

[cityguy]

Sexy,and Calgary needs some sexy.

[wrendog]

Wow! That is fantastic!!!!

[HK Chicago]

Now THAT's a building. Better than The Bow

I don't mean to derail this too much, but you must realize the Bow can potentially be one of the overall best skyscrapers in the world.

[Thinner6]

I don't mean to derail this too much, but you must realize the Bow can potentially be one of the overall best skyscrapers in the world.

No, no. I understand. It's just my opinion. Objectively speaking The Bow is better but I think the drooling over this building has inflated my opinion of it. The Bow is still one killer tower.

[Wheelingman04]

I like that rendering a lot.

[Cypherus]

Interesting Design - seems to borrow from the tapered-tip skyscrapers from New York, and post-modern glass condos of Vancouver. When mixed together as a conglomerate composition, the execution looks strange. First the Calgary Bowl - now this.....

[giallo]

Why can I see the image? I even tried googling it, but the only website that came up was SSP.

[KingKrunch]

I like that design! Will be a nice addition to the skyline :)

[Waterlooson]

The rendering looks great.

[Thinner6]

The city page for Calgary under proposed projects has this tower at 182.5 meters tall. Can't confirm the accuracy of this. To the spire I'm sure it's closer to 200 meters.

[Calgarian]

200m would be awesome! Not the greatest design, but still pretty nice. As with everything, materials will be the deciding factor for me.

[WonderlandPark]

Weird looking, seems like the took designs from 4 different buildings and slapped them on top of each other.

[Thinner6]

New Renderings:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8305/lacaillexd9.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9044/lacaille2lo6.jpg

[Boris2k7]

Thanks to Bigtime for finding them on the LaCaille website and posting them in the Calgary Construction Thread.

(Renderings were posted here but as you see above, a certain someone beat me to it. So there, look how spiteful I am)

I'm very confident that IF these renderings are near accurate, this tower will be over 200m tall.


EDIT: Ah, Thinner stole my thunder. Bleh ;)

[Thinner6]

Thanks to Bigtime for finding them on the LaCaille website and posting them in the Calgary Construction Thread.

--
--

I'm very confident that IF these renderings are near accurate, this tower will be over 200m tall.


EDIT: Ah, Thinner stole my thunder. Bleh ;)

My bad. :D

[Boris2k7]

Looks like we got a little back and forth thing going on here. You can post the pictures!

I decline, you beat me to it. Chivalry demands that I yield my post.

EDIT: This just in! Waiting for confirmation, but these were likely rendering for the marketing group by SSP's own CtrlAltDel, who also does a lot of Calgary skyline renderings that can be viewed in the Alberta subforum as well as in a few local condo guide magazines.

[cityguy]

That would be a very nice addition to Calgay's skyline.Any idea when sales will start?

[Arriviste]

That would be a very nice addition to Calgay's skyline.Any idea when sales will start?

Hopefully it won't see the light of day. And if it does, well its a testament to the ignorance of the Calgary market.

[ltsmotorsport]

Awesome project, and it looks really good in the skyline.

[cityguy]

What's going on in the Calgary market,Arriviste?

[Arriviste]

What's going on in the Calgary market,Arriviste?

People just have bad taste IMO. The market is absolutely on fire, but many of the projects being erected are really lacking in design credibility. Things are coming around though, and there are a few great projects on the horizon. I personally have a major vendetta against facadism and POMO that will never end. I guess its more a personal issue than a market issue, but I'm not shy in saying that I think that Calgary needs to do better.

[MolsonExport]

Not bad, not bad. Lucky Cowlgary, with all that construction & proposals.

[Boris2k7]

While I love the mixed-use aspect of this tower, and applaud it (it is groundbreaking for Calgary) I have to agree with Arriviste that the architecture is rather distasteful. Especially for such a highly visible project. I don't have any particular problem with POMO like he does, but the base needs to be changed. It disrupts the flow of the tower and makes it looks tacky.

[The Chemist]

Hopefully it won't see the light of day. And if it does, well its a testament to the ignorance of the Calgary market.

No, it'd be a testament that Calgarians have different tastes than you do - just because other people like it and you don't doesn't make them ignorant. :rolleyes:

[Arriviste]

No, it'd be a testament that Calgarians have different tastes than you do - just because other people like it and you don't doesn't make them ignorant. :rolleyes:

You would obviously fall under the "ignorant" category, for you don't understand what I'm talking about.
It's not about taste, its about history.

[Doug]

Calgary has no history and likely never will, so post-modernism isn't the insult it would be in an established city. This design is somewhat overwrought and disharmonious, but overall I would still take it over a stylistically pure, but still boring mimimalist box. Hopefully, this one is still a work in progress. Regardless, I can't see it or any large project for that matter going ahead as the housing market is slowing rapidly (ex. listings are at a record high).

[Calgarian]

I don't think this tower is all that bad, I just think we could have got something far better for the money they are obviously going to spend.

[davee930]

whatever i love this building and i think it fits in the skyline so well

[Wooster]

Calgary has no history and likely never will, so post-modernism isn't the insult it would be in an established city. This design is somewhat overwrought and disharmonious, but overall I would still take it over a stylistically pure, but still boring mimimalist box. Hopefully, this one is still a work in progress. Regardless, I can't see it or any large project for that matter going ahead as the housing market is slowing rapidly (ex. listings are at a record high).

That may be true. Some of the ill-conceived projects will no doubt fall by the way-side. The advantage this project has going for it in terms of feasibility is its mix of uses. If it were all residential, all commercial, or all hotel, it would have no hope. But there is a little bit of each, so I think it will likely take off.

[Coldrsx]

People just have bad taste IMO. The market is absolutely on fire, but many of the projects being erected are really lacking in design credibility. Things are coming around though, and there are a few great projects on the horizon. I personally have a major vendetta against facadism and POMO that will never end. I guess its more a personal issue than a market issue, but I'm not shy in saying that I think that Calgary needs to do better.



could not agree more....this is nothing more than a box with a five west on top...

[ScottFromCalgary]

The more I look at this building the less I like it.

[davee930]

could not agree more....this is nothing more than a box with a five west on top...

it's not just a box at all

[Coldrsx]

^sorry a collection of boxes.

[Doug]

The more I look at this one, the more I like it. The biggest issue is the transition from the mostly hard surfaced base to the mostly glass upper section. The transition needs to be more gradual of the lower sections need more glass and the upper sections need more concrete/granite/stone.

[Doug]

That may be true. Some of the ill-conceived projects will no doubt fall by the way-side. The advantage this project has going for it in terms of feasibility is its mix of uses. If it were all residential, all commercial, or all hotel, it would have no hope. But there is a little bit of each, so I think it will likely take off.

True, but given the way the market is heading, I can't see any new projects with significant residential getting off the ground. I wouldn't be surprised to see inner city condo prices fall 20-30%.

[Coldrsx]

^wont fall 20-30% but wont rise for a while...

[Wooster]

http://www.lacaille.ca/photos/lacaille4/lacaille4_big01.jpg

We've heard there was a major redesign and a new architect for this project. A Vancouver firm and a contemporary design - not Trump lite any more.

Great news! 50 storeys and no more spire.

[James2390]

Awesome! This could really make a mark on the skyline.

[mersar]

Definately. According to Unibrain who posted some unofficial numbers in the Calgary thread, its looking to be 243m to the top of the spire. Roof height will be less then the Bow still, but probably not by that much (Bow is 236m)

[Calgarian]

cant wait to see the re-design.

[Boris2k7]

This project is now called The Grand

We are still waiting for new renderings

[Jobohimself]

It looks like San Diego's Electra Building on steroids. But they have done a bad job with this, and it looks somewhat shoddy...

[Nowhereman1280]

Calgary has no history and likely never will, so post-modernism isn't the insult it would be in an established city. This design is somewhat overwrought and disharmonious, but overall I would still take it over a stylistically pure, but still boring mimimalist box. Hopefully, this one is still a work in progress. Regardless, I can't see it or any large project for that matter going ahead as the housing market is slowing rapidly (ex. listings are at a record high).

Really? No history at all? That must be rough! That design is disgusting, it is everything that is wrong with post-modernism, a jumble of random styles, bad proportions, over complicated in some areas and boring in others, ICK. And BTW minimalist boxes are not boring, if you've ever been in or right next to a Mies building its quite and exciting experience, the way the building lifts up from the street and creates a forrest of pillars that draw you in to a lobby that is made of such clear glass that you feel like your not even in a building at all, but still outside. Its quite wonderful actually.

http://www.lacaille.ca/photos/lacaille4/lacaille4_big01.jpg

We've heard there was a major redesign and a new architect for this project. A Vancouver firm and a contemporary design - not Trump lite any more.

Great news! 50 storeys and no more spire.

Thank God! I'm glad this nasty design with the tacked on spire will be replaced with something that at least has a chance of looking good.

[Surrealplaces]

Really? No history at all? That must be rough!




It depends on what you mean by history. Calgary does have history if you're comparing it to a city like Chicago which isn't very old either, but doesn't have much history when compared to European cities, or even eastern NA cities like Boston, or Philly.

[NDPhilly]

reminds me of the austonian in Austin.

[Boris2k7]

New Rendering:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4959/thegrandjk2ks3.jpg

Height Unknown but estimated +215m

[WonderlandPark]

This architect has a thing a schizophrenic design, again, this is a stack of 3 different buildings mashed together in a most unelegant way.

[Boris2k7]

^ Actually the architect on this one is Zeidler Partnership (http://www.zrpa.com/) from Toronto, whom have a fairly good portfolio (including work on The Bow with Foster + Partners). The blame should fall more towards the developers, LaCaille Group (http://www.lacaille.ca/).

Or, to put it another way, the glassy portions that start at the top of the building are very Zeidlerish, whilst the punched window/historicist parts that start from the bottom are very LaCailleish.

[Wooster]

^ Well, Zeidler is spotty. They did design the abomination that is Trump Tower Toronto.

[M II A II R II K]

^ Well, Zeidler is spotty. They did design the abomination that is Trump Tower Toronto.

Now that you mention it, the design does look very similar.

[JBinCalgary]

the new design is much better

[bob1954]

As long as the "Grand" is over 800-850' I'll be happy... If it gets built at all!

[O-tacular]

I'm still hoping for this one. I have a feeling it would be better than the renderings in real life. I really dig the transparent roof element.

[craner]

I really hope this is one of the first ones to go in the next cycle.

[mersar]

Some updated renders from the LaCaille web site (http://www.lacaille.ca):

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1969/lacaille3.png

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4145/lacaille2.png

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5351/lacaille.png

[Calgarian]

It has one good side.

[Bokimon]

^ Agreed..
Otherwise too busy of a building. The punched out balcones on those very high floors would be trouble for me, you couldn't have a BBQ because of the wind..

[O-tacular]

I really like this building actually. It has more than one good side too. I like that they reversed the curved glass top so it's on the other side now. My only complaint is the blue glass.

[giallo]

It looks good from its most slender side. The lines flow and the top is interesting enough. From the side though......meh. It looks like a shorter Trump Toronto.

[Coldrsx]

you guys are too critical... that is exactly the type of designs Calgary needs more of to continue to evolve as a major player of a downtown.

[Wooster]

^ Yeah, although it has some design and stylistic issues, really it will be a big development for downtown Calgary. A high end mixed use project with residential/hotel/office of this scale right on the heart of the core is a big deal.

Here's a couple of more perspectives of the lower levels. It will be a nice building to walk by. It will really change the complexion of 4th ave - particularly considering what is there now.

Nice Entrance Arrival
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/4th-1.jpg

Detail of the hotel portion materials
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/4th2.jpg

[frinkprof]

I'm definitely liking this one more, especially those lower-level perspectives as posted by Wooster above.

My main issue is that this side looks too busy as there is a different facade on each step up.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1969/lacaille3.png

O-tacular mentions the blue glass and I can see that point, however I think it depends entirely on the tint. If it is a very light blue, I think it would be good. As we have seen too on several buildings competed and under construction, the glass colour almost never matches the original renderings.

[LeftCoaster]

Love the concept hate the design.

hopefully this one sees a third revisiting...

[bob1954]

It'll look OK from 3 different angle! Question: What happened to the 242 meter version, or was that just a "rough" estimate?

[nick.flood]

Perhaps it could be.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb15/smashcard/lacaille34.jpg

[Me&You]

Any guesses as to who the hotel could be?

I hope it's something different than we have... something like a Opus, W, etc.

[craner]

:previous: Didn't one of the earlier renderings show a Ritz Carlton logo ?

nickflood -I Like it.

[evolv]

I believe there was talk of it being a metropolitan hotel.

[lespoir]

I think the design is ok, but the location sucks big time...at the very beginning, I was thinking to be among the first buyers, but once I found out the location, I am completely out of it.

If it partners with Metropolitan Hotel, it probably pairs well with Lacaille. People have speculated about Ritz-Carlton, Four Seasons, but I doubted, because LaCaille has to dramatically change their construction style, build a tower with real substances, like concreates, bricks, stones, plus glass and metals. They also have to spend big bucks on styles.

Their current paper cardbox tower style will never work with Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton.

[bob1954]

I asked tis a while back but was'nt tere a 242 meter version of La Grand or was that figure wrong to begin with? Thanks

[Thinner6]

Any idea if this project will actually be built? It would give height and style to a part of downtown seriously lacking in both.

[MichaelS]

I think the design is ok, but the location sucks big time...at the very beginning, I was thinking to be among the first buyers, but once I found out the location, I am completely out of it.


What is it that you don't like about the location?

[craner]

I asked tis a while back but was'nt tere a 242 meter version of La Grand or was that figure wrong to begin with? Thanks

I believe the first "POMO" version reached this height if the huge flag pole on top was included.

[bob1954]

Sorry for the poor spelling! Terrible, must have been tired!

[lespoir]

What is it that you don't like about the location?

In the middle of nowhere, also trapped by a few bad buildings surrounding it.

A multi-used tower like this one should be either close to either riverpath, LRT, office/business core, entertainment. Yet this one is in a desert spot of the tiny Calgary downtown core.

[evolv]

^Its a block from Eau Claire, hardly the middle of no where

[Calgarian]

In the middle of nowhere, also trapped by a few bad buildings surrounding it.

A multi-used tower like this one should be either close to either riverpath, LRT, office/business core, entertainment. Yet this one is in a desert spot of the tiny Calgary downtown core.

What are you talking about, its a hotel / condo tower, 3 blocks from Eau Claire. It will add to the street life in your 'desert'. What would you like to see there, another office tower that contributes nothing to the area outside of 9-5?

[woodstock88]

when are they planning to approve it..!? or star u/c

[Calgarian]

not for some time I would guess.

[AUM]

I decided to remove this post as I think my frustrations with certain aspects of the development processes in this city is not appropriate for this forum. Guess I just hope for more out of new development in this city.

[craner]

:hmmm: :shrug:

[MichaelS]

Too many new projects are already behind any of the new 2030 initiatives, or net zero guidelines. They are no further ahead than there 80's counterparts. As many of us on this forum are in the building industry its time to start being the voice of reason for how this city moves forward...cause right now I do not have faith in the Civic powers that be or the Building industry (architecture firms,developers and contracts inclusive).

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/cityclerks/council_policies/amcw005.pdf

[AUM]

^^^
I realize the City has standards with regards to their own projects. This does not necessarily apply to private developments. I guess I am frustrated that too often than not,the building industry requires legislation to do the right thing rather than the will to do it regardless. Thankfully there is things like L.E.E.D otherwise we wouldn't have anything I guess.

[MichaelS]

The City is working at building relationships/influence with the private industry, however their reach can only extend so far. As of now it is better to lead by example. I agree that if a building isn't working towards goals like LEED certification or the 2030 intiatives, it will be obsolete the day it opens. Hopefully this will become apparent in market value, and soon developers will build towards it as it is simply the best thing to do economically as well.

[bob1954]

Or, they'll just start building out in the 'burbs!!

[MichaelS]

The actual location of the building shouldn't matter as much (well, except in terms of access to transit, etc.). But things like proper orientation, green/heat island roof, water saving devices and so on can be applied to any buildings, be it downtown or in the suburbs.