[mmmatt]

Hello all, I am a frequent editor of Wikipedia...Im sure you have heard of it lol.
On Wikipedia there exists "classes" of articles, the very best articles are
listed as "Featured Articles" (FA). The next class down are articles listed as 'Good Articles" (GA). In order to be considered a FA or a GA an article must be reviewed by an experienced editor who has not signifigantly contributed to the article in question.

I have an idea...the idea is that since most people on this forum know a lot about thier respective cities perhaps they should help out the articles on Wikipedia reach those standards. I say this because many of the Canadian city articles are in need of help lol. Currently there are only 3 FA Canadian city articles and 6 GA ones. Editing Wikipedia is a really fun and rewarding
hobby, and its a good way to rep your city to a wider audience (while keeping everything as unbiased as possible of course).

Here is the list of the current FA and GA city articles...hopefully we can see more on here soon!

Featured Articles

Dawson Creek, BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_Creek,_British_Columbia)
Hamilton, ON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton%2C_Ontario)
Vancouver, BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver)

Good Articles

Calgary, AB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary)
Edmonton, AB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton)
Hastings, ON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastings%2C_Ontario)
Lethbridge, AB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethbridge)
Moncton, NB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moncton)
Toronto, ON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto)

[matt602]

Here's a featured article city to add to the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton%2C_Ontario

I didn't even have any idea it was FA until I just checked.

edit: not sure if it was there the whole time or if you just edited it into the list. if it was there the whole time, never mind.

[borgo100]

BARRIE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrie,_Ontario

[mmmatt]

BARRIE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrie,_Ontario

haha...yeah that article really needs some work.

[borgo100]

yeah barrie does suck

[1ajs]

winnipeg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg

[kirjtc2]

Wikipedia....I used to spend countless hours editing that. Way back in 2002-03, I *started* most of the articles on Canadian mid-sized cities. But these days, it's become a festering bureaucratic cesspool now, where accuracy takes a back seat to rules and weird interpretations of weird policies. I wouldn't touch an article with a ten foot pole now.

[vid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Bay%2C_Ontario

I've put a fair amount of work into it, four sections now have links to their own "(Subject) in (City)" pages. It was nominated for Good Article status but wasn't approved as we lack a sufficient amount of inline citations (we have 40, we were aiming for ~65 to 80 at least). I haven't been doing too much on it lately. I agree with kirjtc2, there are a lot of members and administrators in Wikipedia that freak out too easily. The whole place needs to take a chill pill. :P

[mmmatt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Bay%2C_Ontario
It was nominated for Good Article status but wasn't approved as we lack a sufficient amount of inline citations (we have 40, we were aiming for ~65 to 80 at least).

Yeah when we nominated the Moncton article the first time we had about 40 inline citations, Now it has over 100, that did the trick :) lol.

[vid]

The main problem with ours is the history section is huge, and the entire thing came from one book. Until I can find a copy of it (It's elusive, I've only ever seen it at school) I can't go through and put exact citations to each paragraph, all we have is the footnote naming the book. There are some other books that would be able to expand the history section as well. Then the geography section needs work as well, I've noticed that the geography and climate section is almost always the worst in city articles. It's hard to find sources outside or ec.gc.ca.

[Rusty van Reddick]

If you want to improve Wikipedia's credibility, stop with the "lol," please. It's fucking annoying.

[mmmatt]

If you want to improve Wikipedia's credibility, stop with the "lol," please. It's fucking annoying.

thanks Il'l keep that in mind

[Hootch]

yeah barrie does suck

Really? Alot of people I know mentioned Barrie as a great party destination. I've been led to believe you guys have some of the best nightlife in Canada, isn't it true? Plus it's growing at a phenomenal rate - it can't be all that bad right?

[mmmatt]

Really? Alot of people I know mentioned Barrie as a great party destination. I've been led to believe you guys have some of the best nightlife in Canada, isn't it true? Plus it's growing at a phenomenal rate - it can't be all that bad right?

Maybe he meant the article about Barrie sucks...which is true, not sure about the city itself, I've never been.

[rbt]

Really? Alot of people I know mentioned Barrie as a great party destination. I've been led to believe you guys have some of the best nightlife in Canada, isn't it true? Plus it's growing at a phenomenal rate - it can't be all that bad right?

Lived in Barrie for 6 years in my late teens.

It is still a very small city but they do know how to throw a good ticketed event.

As to "party" town. A surprisingly high number of Toronto 25 to 30 year old Caucasian non-imigrant sex industry workers are from lower/middle class areas in Barrie/Collingwood/Wasaga Beach/Orillia. I'll let you determine how much "party fun" Barrie teens in my generation had in highschool based on that statement.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Really? Alot of people I know mentioned Barrie as a great party destination. I've been led to believe you guys have some of the best nightlife in Canada, isn't it true? Plus it's growing at a phenomenal rate - it can't be all that bad right?

No, it ain't all bad. Don't forget, Wasaga Beach is only about a 30 minute drive from my recollection...

[J-MAN]

winnipeg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg


someone needs to add some better pictures for winnipeg in wiki


http://dinoguya.googlepages.com/DSC_3728.jpg/DSC_3728-full.jpg

http://dinoguya.googlepages.com/g.jpg/g-full.jpg

:previous: does anyone know who took this picture

[ReginaGuy]

I hate the layout of the Regina wikipedia page. Too many photos, and most of them suck.

Also, there are way too many historical photos, because one of the editors is obsessed with them. They're kind of cool, but the overwhelming amount of them makes it look almost as if Regina is a historical city that doesn't even exist anymore

[mmmatt]

I hate the layout of the Regina wikipedia page. Too many photos, and most of them suck.

Also, there are way too many historical photos, because one of the editors is obsessed with them. They're kind of cool, but the overwhelming amount of them makes it look almost as if Regina is a historical city that doesn't even exist anymore

There is a term people use on Wikipedia, it is 'Be Bold" which basically means if you disagree with something on an article be bold and change it! :) If someone disagrees with what you did discuss it with them, perhaps you can reach a compromise with the ratio of new and old pictures.

[1ajs]

the curent winnipeg skyline shot

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Waterfront_Drive_And_Winnipeg_Skyline_HDR.jpg

[Laurent]

^ if anyone doesn't mind me saying, that shot of Winnipeg sucks! It makes the city look like a cold little town you can visit if you wanna freeze your ass off (which is what many people think of Canada). The pic especially sucks when compared to the two pics posted by J-Man -> when I saw these two pics I was stunned by the size of the downtown area! and both pics make the city look absolutely beautiful. Check out that huge sea of trees in front of that slew of skyscrapers . . really nice for a city that (unfortunately I guess) I personnally never hear anything about

[J-MAN]

^ if anyone doesn't mind me saying, that shot of Winnipeg sucks! It makes the city look like a cold little town you can visit if you wanna freeze your ass off (which is what many people think of Canada). The pic especially sucks when compared to the two pics posted by J-Man -> when I saw these two pics I was stunned by the size of the downtown area! and both pics make the city look absolutely beautiful. Check out that huge sea of trees in front of that slew of skyscrapers . . really nice for a city that (unfortunately I guess) I personnally never hear anything about



thank you, that was exactly what i thought:worship:

wiki on winnipeg is terrible not to mention the lack of information people actually know about winnipeg, and thats just in its own country

I have a lot of family in southern ontario and they know nothing about winnipeg other then mosiquito spraying or 'winter peg' ....
its actually preaty sad :(

[ReginaGuy]

There is a term people use on Wikipedia, it is 'Be Bold" which basically means if you disagree with something on an article be bold and change it! :) If someone disagrees with what you did discuss it with them, perhaps you can reach a compromise with the ratio of new and old pictures.

I've tried that, both being bold and changing it, and discussing it. A week later this person just added even more historical photos. Wikipedia is a joke sometimes

[vid]

thank you, that was exactly what i thought:worship:

wiki on winnipeg is terrible not to mention the lack of information people actually know about winnipeg, and thats just in its own country

I have a lot of family in southern ontario and they know nothing about winnipeg other then mosiquito spraying or 'winter peg' ....
its actually preaty sad :(

You sound like you can offer a tremendous wealth of information on Winnipeg! Why don't you join up and fix the page?

I've tried, but all I can do it tweak the templates and correct typoes. I don't bother adding info to Winnipeg but I do watch the page to protect it from vandalism and whatnot. And Adrian, please, keep an eye on your spelling and stop putting that picture of Winnipeg up.

Find a good picture of the skyline on Flickr, send a message to the photographer asking if they'll put it up on Wikipedia. It's easy to do, and a lot of them are open to doing it.

[J-MAN]

:previous:

I tryed to sigh up but it tells me this:

Account creation from this IP address (_____) has been temporarily restricted. This is probably due to persistent vandalism from the IP address you are editing from, which may be shared by many people if you are connected to the Internet via a proxy server (used by most schools and corporations and some Internet Service Providers) or dial-up access. To enquire about the block or request that an account be created for you, please click here and follow the instructions under the Emailing us section.

[mmmatt]

I've tried that, both being bold and changing it, and discussing it. A week later this person just added even more historical photos. Wikipedia is a joke sometimes

Yeah unfortunately some people can be jerks about some stuff but that is just the human aspect of it of course...In most cases the system works well, other times people need just to be smacked upside the head :haha:

[J-MAN]

deleted post

[J-MAN]

double post

[vid]

I tryed to sigh up but it tells me this:

Your own fault. Personally, I'm not surprised. :rolleyes:

It gives you options to get around it, if you simply read the paragraph.

From: Guelph City Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelph_City_Council)

The Ward 1 tie between Laura Baily and Kathleen Farrelly was broken under the Municipal Elections Act with the City Clerk drawing Baily's name randomly by lot. Kathleen Farrelly kept her seat on Council until the court ruled a recount. The final outcome of that recount determined Baily should have the seat on Council. Laura Baily died a couple months later. City Council opted to appoint Farelly back onto council.

:haha:

[J-MAN]

Your own fault. Personally, I'm not surprised. :rolleyes:



WOW, thanks ... :sly:

your surprised why?

by the way I've already emailed wikipedia to get the account

[vid]

Oh, you just seem like the type. :)

[mmmatt]

:previous:

I tryed to sigh up but it tells me this:

Are you trying to sign up from a shared IP address (ie your workplace or school) because its possible other people used that IP for evil and got it blocked.

[J-MAN]

Are you trying to sign up from a shared IP address (ie your workplace or school) because its possible other people used that IP for evil and got it blocked.



no, its from my home home computer :shrug:

[J-MAN]

who changed winnipeg on wiki?

they put in the ugly picture of city hall instead of the old one and put in this
as the skyline :hell:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Winnipeg_skyline%2825%29.jpg

[vid]

I am getting very close to going to Winnipeg myself and taking better pictures of everything. The picture war in that article if fucking ridiculous.

[J-MAN]

:previous:

you should read the wiki discussion, i couldnt believe there where people working on the site, its rediculous.:shrug:

how do you put pictures into wikipedia?

like these ones:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11523072@N02/sets/72157601512382113/

[mmmatt]

:previous:

you should read the wiki discussion, i couldnt believe there where people working on the site, its rediculous.:shrug:

how do you put pictures into wikipedia?

like these ones:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11523072@N02/sets/72157601512382113/

To upload a picture to wiki you need to either hold the copyright yourself and release it into the public domain (ie a pic you took) or get the permission of the copyright holder. Some pics on Flickr are useable...the need to have a CC liscence and also be free for commercial use.

[J-MAN]

:previous:

ya those where my pics on flickr, I would only be adding my pics.


Im already a member too and changed the layout a little unless someone chandged it.

[mmmatt]

:previous:

ya those where my pics on flickr, I would only be adding my pics.


Im already a member too and changed the layout a little unless someone chandged it.

so to upload your own pics you click "Upload" on the left menu browse for your pic and pick your liscence (GFDL is reccommended) write that you took it and you can describe it if you want...then upload!

If you want to upload straight from Flickr you need to use Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) and upload from there...they have a tool for uploading from flickr

[vid]

I usually release my work into the public domain, I don't use my best pictures and chances are pretty much nil that anyone would buy them.

If you're going to be uploading pictures, you should try and recreate one of the images we've posted here. Usually images of cities aren't allowed because they can be reproduced by someone else for free, so it is better if you find where the picture was taken and recreate it.

[Dalreg]

I just find it funny that anyone here would take wiki serious at all. I would find 1980's encyclopedia's more up to date that wiki.

[vid]

Well those 1980s encyclopedias often are, if you check the notes and references section, the basis for many articles. I find it funny that people use Wiki as a primary resource. It's more of an amalgamation of all sources on one topic, with the article laying down the basics, and then the responsibility of the researcher to use the footnotes to expand research on private sites.

It is actually against the rules to add something to Wikipedia without providing a link to an external source to prove it's correct, so it isn't Wikipedia you should have a problem with, it the sources Wikipedia uses you should have a problem with, ie. the 1980 Encyclopedia.

[Dalreg]

Well those 1980s encyclopedias often are, if you check the notes and references section, the basis for many articles. I find it funny that people use Wiki as a primary resource. It's more of an amalgamation of all sources on one topic, with the article laying down the basics, and then the responsibility of the researcher to use the footnotes to expand research on private sites.

It is actually against the rules to add something to Wikipedia without providing a link to an external source to prove it's correct, so it isn't Wikipedia you should have a problem with, it the sources Wikipedia uses you should have a problem with, ie. the 1980 Encyclopedia.

No where did I say I had a problem with it. So come on now vid, grab a glove and get in the game. Don't be putting words in peoples mouths. Thats how problems start.

[J-MAN]

so to upload your own pics you click "Upload" on the left menu browse for your pic and pick your liscence (GFDL is reccommended) write that you took it and you can describe it if you want...then upload!

If you want to upload straight from Flickr you need to use Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) and upload from there...they have a tool for uploading from flickr


how do i know which licence to pick? ...

None (All rights reserved)

Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike Creative Commons

Attribution-NonCommercial Creative Commons

Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs Creative Commons

Attribution Creative Commons

Attribution-ShareAlike Creative Commons

Attribution-NoDerivs Creative Commons

[mmmatt]

how do i know which licence to pick? ...

None (All rights reserved)

Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike Creative Commons

Attribution-NonCommercial Creative Commons

Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs Creative Commons

Attribution Creative Commons

Attribution-ShareAlike Creative Commons

Attribution-NoDerivs Creative Commons

Well it looks like those are the selections for uploading a pic to commons from Flickr. I looked at your pics on Flickr and you have them listed as "All rights reserved" so you cant upload them to commons like that...the licence you choose on Wiki needs to match the licence you have on the pic on Flickr...because they check that.

In order to upload to Commons the licence needs to be either:

*Attribution Creative Commons
or
*Attribution-ShareAlike Creative Commons

You can pick that in your Flickr settings

[vid]

I just upload them directly from my hard drive. If they get mad about copyrights, I'll just give myself written permission. :)

[mmmatt]

I just upload them directly from my hard drive. If they get mad about copyrights, I'll just give myself written permission. :)

haha yeah thats how I do it then you can pic whatever licence you want...I usually pick the most leniant one because I really dont care if people use them for stuff, not like I could make money from them or anything :)

[vid]

Exactly! In small cities like ours, people just go out and take their own pictures, or use the free ones the city has on their website. They're more than 20 years old now but you still see them all the time, pictures pointing out Keskus or the 'new' Auditorium! :rolleyes:

Speaking of Wiki, my article for County Fair Mall was deleted today because it "isn't of anything notable or interesting" :P It lasted a while though, the article I made for Kenora Shoppers Mall lasted little more than a week. So let this be a lesson to us: Malls are not interesting or notable. Oh, and a copyright gestapo fuck deleted every single image on Paul Shaffer's article! :rolleyes:

[J-MAN]

hey check out new wiki page on winnipeg!
(added a couple of pictures)

I still think history should go to bottom though (isnt the present a little more important then the past):D

still need to take a new skyline shot too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg

[vid]

All cities put their history at the top, you start from the beginning, not the end.

[Rico Rommheim]

According to wikipedia Grande Prairie (Alberta) is quote: "Grande Prairie is a real depressing shithole, full of crack heads, prostitutes and drunks."

Check it out :haha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_prairie

[mmmatt]

According to wikipedia Grande Prairie (Alberta) is quote: "Grande Prairie is a real depressing shithole, full of crack heads, prostitutes and drunks."

Check it out :haha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_prairie

fixed it

[Rico Rommheim]

^Nooooooo! Why did you yank it, I wanted others to see it! Argh!

[mmmatt]

^Nooooooo! Why did you yank it, I wanted others to see it! Argh!

sorry, the Wikipedian in me cant let vandalism like that slide...rest assured to anyone reading this... that was actually written on the article, by some person who really doesnt like Grand Prarie I guess haha :)

[hackunion]

Since this thread has become somewhat active, can someone please change the title?!

[mmmatt]

Since this thread has become somewhat active, can someone please change the title?!

to what? and why?

[hackunion]

:uhh: cities

[mmmatt]

:uhh: cities

Whoops! spelling is clearly not my strong suit...I dont know how to change that though...I changed the title of my first post but it didnt change the main title...do you know how?

[Only The Lonely..]

I am getting very close to going to Winnipeg myself and taking better pictures of everything. The picture war in that article if fucking ridiculous.

Vid, c'mon down we'll go to Yucky's for discount sushi my treat!

[vid]

Yay, raw fish from a dumpy hotel in Winnipeg! What could be better?? :tup:

[Rico Rommheim]

Whoops! spelling is clearly not my strong suit


And you're on wikipedia?

[vid]

Adrian is on wiki, too. :)

[mmmatt]

And you're on wikipedia?

I use a spellchecker for everything I put on there :cool:

[ReginaGuy]

Thanks to text messaging and the internet, I estimate that no child will be able to properly spell by the year 2030

[Boris2k7]

Looks like whoever is doing the Grand Prairie vandalism is a persistent bugger... :haha:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6282/grandprairiekc8.png

[mmmatt]

Looks like whoever is doing the Grand Prairie vandalism is a persistent bugger... :haha:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6282/grandprairiekc8.png

hahaha wow! Ill fix it again I guess....

PS are you running IE 7 in windows 98/2000?

[Boris2k7]

hahaha wow! Ill fix it again I guess....

PS are you running IE 7 in windows 98/2000?

It's the office computer... it's on XP but with the 98 stylings...

[mmmatt]

It's the office computer... it's on XP but with the 98 stylings...

ahhhh I see, just kinda caught me off gaurd because I didnt think it would work on those operating systems.

[vid]

Yes, businesses seem to like the look of the old system, even at school they ran XP but used the 98 styles. It's a "thing".

[mmmatt]

Yes, businesses seem to like the look of the old system, even at school they ran XP but used the 98 styles. It's a "thing".

Here at my work some comps have win 2000 :ancient:

and some have XP with the XP theme :tup:

Unfortunately they ALL have crappy CRT moniters :hell:

My eyes hurt sometimes enough to make me want to lug my own LCD back and forth between work haha.

[vid]

Some of the computers at my high school has Windows 95. :) I remember in public school, when they got brand new computers with Windows 3.1! Before that, it was all commodore. :P And I'm not even that old.

And I've noticed that LCD monitors wash everything in blue? My aunts is like that, but it could be a setting she messed up. I find that being able to see the little grid of pixels is annoying, but it's easier to draw diagrams on it with paint as there is a 1:1 and 2:1 scale grid. (Paint only applies grids for 4:1 and up)

[mmmatt]

Some of the computers at my high school has Windows 95. :) I remember in public school, when they got brand new computers with Windows 3.1! Before that, it was all commodore. :P And I'm not even that old.

And I've noticed that LCD monitors wash everything in blue? My aunts is like that, but it could be a setting she messed up. I find that being able to see the little grid of pixels is annoying, but it's easier to draw diagrams on it with paint as there is a 1:1 and 2:1 scale grid. (Paint only applies grids for 4:1 and up)

hahaha commodore? wow...

As far as LCD...I dunno what kind of moniter you are using but it sound like a POS... pardon my french. :haha: They are a lot sharper than CRT true...but unless you are using it in like 800x600 resolution it should not look pixilated. (I usually keep mine at about 1280x1024).

PS on a similar note every time I hear something about a commodore I cant help getting the song "Its all about the Pentiums" stuck in my head haha

"You think your commodore 64 is really neato, what kinda chip you got in there, a Dorito?!" :jester:

[vid]

Her monitor is 1280x1024, and by seeing the pixels I meant seeing the actual little squares that turn colours to appear as things. :P CRT monitors don't have that, a white field is pure white, not white with a grid on it.

[mmmatt]

Her monitor is 1280x1024, and by seeing the pixels I meant seeing the actual little squares that turn colours to appear as things. :P CRT monitors don't have that, a white field is pure white, not white with a grid on it.

hahaha I know what you mean...I have just never experienced this "grid" you speak of. :P a field of white on my moniter looks like clear white, oh well diferent moniters I guess...I also have a 256mb graphics card so that might help a little :cool:

[CanadianCentaur]

Looks like whoever is doing the Grand Prairie vandalism is a persistent bugger... :haha:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6282/grandprairiekc8.png

I'd LOVE to wrap my hands around whoever this asshole tried to vandalize this!

I've actually overhauled this Wikipedia article on GP a long time ago!

[mmmatt]

I'd LOVE to wrap my hands around whoever this asshole tried to vandalize this!

I've actually overhauled this Wikipedia article on GP a long time ago!

So what do I get for fixing it? A prize of some sort perhaps? :D

[vid]

hahaha I know what you mean...I have just never experienced this "grid" you speak of. :P a field of white on my moniter looks like clear white, oh well diferent moniters I guess...I also have a 256mb graphics card so that might help a little :cool:

LCD monitors are made up of pixels, placed on a grid. If you cannot see the grid of pixels that compose the monitor screen, you need glasses.

[mmmatt]

LCD monitors are made up of pixels, placed on a grid. If you cannot see the grid of pixels that compose the monitor screen, you need glasses.

I have 20/20 Vision...maybe I had "anti-grid" contact lenses implanted in my head as a child...wouldnt suprise me, its all a conspiricy to make everyone think Im weird!!! :runaway:

[vid]

http://www.dansdata.com/images/sm152b/pixels500.jpg (http://www.dansdata.com/sm152b.htm)

[mmmatt]

AAAHHH ATTACK OF THE GIANT POINTER!!!

...


...well yeah I can see that if I put my head 1 inch away from the screen...but its the same thing on all types of moniters...for example my CRT tv looks like that up close too...maybe its just a matter of focussing your eyes in a certain way so you dont notice it :shrug:

[CanadianCentaur]

So what do I get for fixing it? A prize of some sort perhaps? :D

Sorry, you won't get a prize. But you have my thanks. :D

However, I know the population will need to be updated, because the results from the 2007 census just came out a few days ago and it's now 50,227 - up 6.69% from last year. :cool:

[vid]

AAAHHH ATTACK OF THE GIANT POINTER!!!

...


...well yeah I can see that if I put my head 1 inch away from the screen...but its the same thing on all types of moniters...for example my CRT tv looks like that up close too...maybe its just a matter of focussing your eyes in a certain way so you dont notice it :shrug:

My CRT monitor doesn't do that. To end this off topicness I'll simply say you'd need to be with me to know what I mean.

The End.



So, what 2007 census?

[mmmatt]

My CRT monitor doesn't do that. To end this off topicness I'll simply say you'd need to be with me to know what I mean.

The End.



So, what 2007 census?

Fine Im on my way...:P

The Real End