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Dac150
Aug 15, 2007, 11:44 PM
They say the thrid time is the charm....................

Ok, this time I think I've got it. :D I've made a very nice layout so far and am already working on the highways and infastructure of Hutchinson.

Since everyone seems to like Hutchinson, I am going to keep the name and location. Just of course a different layout. This time the city is much bigger, cleaner, and well detailed. This means I am strictly working on the infastructure right now. You will probably see the first buildings in early to mid September. I want to make this a good city! I will show updates as the city progresses.

A little history....................

Hutchinson was founded back in 1820 as a small fishing village and port. As time went on the fact the village was off the coast drew in more people. By the 1900's the cities population was just over 70,000. It was not until 1910 that the village (now becoming a city) was looked at as a business mecca. Since cities like New York, Boston, and Philadelphia were all getting crowded, companies were moving to Hutchinson, but sure enough the crowd followed and by 1960 the city was a booming business capitol. The trend of the glass boxes filled the city. By the 70's the city was quite built up, but there was still room to expand. That is where the highways, bridge, and tunnel came in. During the 80's the city went through a slump in both business and crime prtection. Buildings fell into dis-repair and crime was skyrocketing.

By 1992 the city stood back on it's feet with the newly elected Mayor: Herbert Rosenthol. Herbet made it a priority to clean the city up and by 1995, Hutchinson was voted one of the best cities to both live and work. With Rosenthol's term up in 97, the city re-elected him. In 2001 his reign as Mayor finally ended. He was considered the best Mayor the city had ever seen. But his departure did not make way for good times. About two months later 9/11 hit the nation. Hutchinson's Business market fell. The new Mayor: Phascal Insiglearry made a vowe to protect the city at all costs and bump back up the commercial market. Within a year his promise was fulfilled and since then the city has been cruisen through good times. With a population of 6,000,000 the city is doing what it can to make more room. Other than that it is currently smooth sailing. Mayor Insiglearry is currently serving his second year of his second term.

A visual update to come tonight. :tup:

Mocholate
Aug 15, 2007, 11:49 PM
:cool: Mo detail make Mo happy :D

Austin55
Aug 15, 2007, 11:51 PM
again?:uhh:
BTW whats CDC?

Dac150
Aug 15, 2007, 11:57 PM
Here is an update showing you an overview of the city and three of the highways I'm working on.

The elevated highway: Riverside Drive
Below grade highway: Cross Hutchinson Expressway
Level Highway: Harper's Landing Parkway
The tunnel is called: Southbound Tunnel

The city is broken up in 4 main areas: Hutchinson, Shoreside Vale, Albom, & St. Marks Island.

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9971/gridii1.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8316/13508662mw0.jpg

More update soon. Enjoy. :tup:

Dac150
Aug 15, 2007, 11:58 PM
again?:uhh:
BTW whats CDC?

The CASSIDY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION. My future company.

And not for nothing austin, but you have gone through quite a bit a cities yourself, so why the "uhh...again?"

foxmtbr
Aug 15, 2007, 11:59 PM
Awesome start! Can't wait to see some buildings! :hyper:

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 12:00 AM
ok,thats what i thought. th grid looks most intersting.

Mocholate
Aug 16, 2007, 12:01 AM
very cool :tup: the big map will allow you to post pics without having to see the map edge - i think that makes it seem more realistic,it's like there is no boundaries :cool:

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 12:02 AM
Awesome start! Can't wait to see some buildings! :hyper:

Thank you. The buildings wont be for a while though. I wan't to get everything else done.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 12:02 AM
very cool :tup: the big map will allow you to post pics without having to see the map edge - i think that makes it seem more realistic,it's like there is no boundaries :cool:

:tup: I actually got that idea from Patrick.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 1:38 AM
Here is an updated version of what I showed before.
scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Heading into the Southbound Tunnel................

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1363/newnt3.jpg

The makings toll plaza I will complete later tonight for the Harper's Landing Parkway....

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8263/tolljq1.jpg

I should have another update by tonight. Leave a comment and enjpy! :tup:

Aleks
Aug 16, 2007, 2:11 AM
Nice. I like your history. Just try not to hurry so it doesn't come out bad like mines. other than that:tup:

foxmtbr
Aug 16, 2007, 2:17 AM
Thank you. The buildings wont be for a while though. I wan't to get everything else done.

Good plan. I wish I had done that.:frog:

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 2:24 AM
Nice. I like your history. Just try not to hurry so it doesn't come out bad like mines. other than that:tup:

I'm going to take my time on this one so it lasts as long as Staunton and Palm Dunes. :tup:

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 3:28 AM
Currently I am working on the other elevated highway that will lead to a suspension bridge. Nothing worth showing, but tomorrow I'll show you some of the bridge.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 4:19 AM
Ok, I took a break on the highway and did some work on the large park on the tip of the city. The problem is I do not know what to call it. Anyone have any suggestion?

Here is a pic of it:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5089/parktd6.jpg

Again, if anyone has any suggestions on what to call the park, I'm all ears.
I'll have another update tomorrow.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 4:35 AM
Another shot of the park:

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3300/park2uu7.jpg

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 4:37 AM
nice park.
your Sig link does'nt work;)

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 4:39 AM
I know.

rbowk
Aug 16, 2007, 6:46 AM
looking good

Aleks
Aug 16, 2007, 7:00 AM
what about Herbert Rosenthol Park?

Peter
Aug 16, 2007, 7:06 AM
Great work so far Dac! Much more detailed than the last two. I have one suggestion. Since you're doing the infrastructure before the buildings, now would be the best time to add different angled roads to your grid because it will be much harder later when there's buildings. I know because I made that mistake in Otahita. I'm stuck with a basic rectangle blocks grid. Unless that is how you wanted the grid, then it's all good. :) Keep it up!!!

foxmtbr
Aug 16, 2007, 7:21 AM
^ I agree. I have the same problem, my basic block grid is boring to work with.

The park looks great!

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 2:37 PM
Great work so far Dac! Much more detailed than the last two. I have one suggestion. Since you're doing the infrastructure before the buildings, now would be the best time to add different angled roads to your grid because it will be much harder later when there's buildings. I know because I made that mistake in Otahita. I'm stuck with a basic rectangle blocks grid. Unless that is how you wanted the grid, then it's all good. :) Keep it up!!!

Yes. Once I get the highway system done I am going to put in a few slanted roads cutting across the city.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 4:29 PM
Ok, I am still working hard on the transit and infastructure and am making a lot of progress.

Here are some new details:

I finished the Suspension Bridge which is called: The Hutchinson Crossing Bridge. It was completed in 1965 and replaced the overcrowded ferry service. Today the ferry is still use, though not as crowded.
scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7218/bridgeco0.jpg

Here is an ariel of the city as it looked earlier this morning. A lot has changed sinse then.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9702/arielhr7.jpg

Here are the makings of the Financial District...........
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4509/finxy8.jpg

I'll have another update later today. Enjoy!

Peter
Aug 16, 2007, 5:53 PM
Incredible Dac. This is one of the best city layouts I've seen and it looks really good and detailed!! I love the suspension bridge. Great work!!! :D

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 6:26 PM
Thank you Peter.

Ok, here is an update of the ever-progressing infastructure.

One of my projects this morning was to make a tunnel that ran from one side of the city to the other. I did, and the name is the Cross Town Tunnel. The Cross Town Tunnel was built in the early 90's to reduce street traffic for people simply trying to get from one side of the city to the other without using the crowded highways.
scroll>>>>>>>>>>>
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1003/tundg3.jpg
Here is an ariel shot of the tunnel system:
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9567/48879860oc5.jpg

Here is the cities monrail system that was built on the East Side. This was built to reduce subway traffic and allow people to get to one of the cities most populated areas quicker and more efficient.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6696/mozi5.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8936/mo2ba7.jpg

There will be a couple more updates today. Enjoy!

Peter
Aug 16, 2007, 6:53 PM
I don't think any SketchUp city has had infrastructure this detailed. simply amazing. keep it up. :yes:

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 7:12 PM
Thank you. I really wanted to make a good one so I'm glad it's a hit with the crowd.:D

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 8:06 PM
the grid is A+++++,probably on of the best here!
but that bridge looks boring,it would be super sice with more detail!:cool:

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 8:33 PM
the grid is A+++++,probably on of the best here!
but that bridge looks boring,it would be super sice with more detail!:cool:

I was thinking the same thing. I'll see what I can do.

BTW, the next update will have buildings. I am satisfied with the infastructure and will detail the city in the areas I put the buildings up.:tup:

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 8:34 PM
its mid september already!! dang,I slept to long!!!

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 8:49 PM
its mid september already!! dang,I slept to long!!!

I finished quicker than I thought. I'll have an update in about an hour.

Aleks
Aug 16, 2007, 9:10 PM
I like your city. I thought about doing all this too but then i realized that I can make dufferent shaped buildings with different shaped city blocks like triangles, circles, ovals ect. Still your city is awesome hope you put nice buildings on.

Mocholate
Aug 16, 2007, 9:52 PM
:cool: yer , nice

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 10:35 PM
Well, as promised, its time for some buildings.

A little background: During the 60's, 70's, and early 80's Hutchinson went through a major commercial boom. That means many boxes. There are also a share of art-deco buildings as well as modern, but the cities majority population of highrises are boxes.

The cities tallest is the Hutchinson International Financial Center, located in the Financial District (115 floors, completed in 1980).

I am no where near of the completion of the cities skyline so expect more to come.
scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3686/a1xn1.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8952/a2ca8.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8163/a3nu2.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4903/a4nd2.jpg

A look at the financial district......
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8792/a5lt2.jpg

The Hutchinson Ferry Terminal, Shore, and boardwalk.......
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1484/a6uc0.jpg

Ok, expect an update later. Enjoy, and leave comments, suggestions, and opinions!:tup:

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 10:41 PM
Enjoy, and leave comments, suggestions, and opinions!

MS paint textures:shrug:
if you want it to be so popular,you probably gonna need textures:shrug: just a thought.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 10:46 PM
I am going to take the Alton City approach and keep it white.

And I'm not trying to be popular, I'm just doing this for fun.

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 10:52 PM
thats fne with me,but look at treres's desighn;s,there very unique and exquisite.(dont mind the spelling)

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 10:55 PM
thats fne with me,but look at treres's desighn;s,there very unique and exquisite.(dont mind the spelling)

1. This is a Northeastern City, so I am using that type of architecture.
2. This city is in present time, unlike Alton which isn't.
3. READ the history and information and you'll learn why the designs are the way they are.

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 11:00 PM
I tried.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 11:05 PM
I tried.

What do you mean by "I tried"?:shrug:

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 11:08 PM
I tried to help.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 11:14 PM
I tried to help.

Well if you notice I said on the first page that I would not be putting textures. Sometimes it is good to read. :yes:

Austin55
Aug 16, 2007, 11:20 PM
Ive read through every post in this thread.

Dac150
Aug 16, 2007, 11:20 PM
Another shot of skyline from overhead...........

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2751/78529390py6.jpg

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 1:15 AM
I am going to Rhode Isanld for the next couple of days and will not be availabe to update on Friday. Possibly Saturday I'll have time.

Is there anything anyone want's to see before I go?

treras93
Aug 17, 2007, 1:28 AM
i love city and the high ways and tunnels and all, but i got to agree wit austin that bridge is a little boring and such little detail which is surprising compared to the rest of the city. other than that like i said, i love the city keep it up:tup:

and enjoy Rhode Island:)

Patrick
Aug 17, 2007, 1:28 AM
Is there anything anyone want's to see before I go?

I'm running low on time so I'll put this short, I LOVE THIS CITY! can we see an entire overveiw so far! :yes:

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 1:36 AM
I love your nytimes ripoff!!!:haha:
its probably my favorite from what Ive seen.:cool:

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 1:45 AM
Thank you guys for the commentary I appreciate it!

Patrick, your wish is my command! :tup:

Overviews of the city:
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2262/a7zr3.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3527/hhul5.jpg

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/7278/oogk0.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7122/oooej9.jpg

Enjoy guys!:tup:

I'll see what I can do with that bridge. :yes:

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 1:53 AM
Yes or no? Any better? :shrug:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5378/bridgegb2.jpg

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 1:55 AM
imege failure.

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 1:58 AM
imege failure.

Its clear to me.

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:02 AM
hmmm,must be me.

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:04 AM
What do you think of it?

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:05 AM
I dunno,the pic wont work.

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:07 AM
Huh?, I'm looking right at it.

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:12 AM
Its probably my connection.

Im sorry dac! friends?

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:14 AM
The only one that were inspired was the Citigroup Center and Sony Plaza.

What I DO NOT like is how you are picking apart my city.

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:18 AM
Im not!! I love your city,I really do!!
how am I pickng it apart!?!?

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:20 AM
The only bad thing I said was the first post I made.
would it make you feel better if I edited all my posts?

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:20 AM
Im not!! I love your city,I really do!!
how am I pickng it apart!?!?

By circling and saying that I am ripping off buildings in real life. I only put two buildings up that were inspired by ones in real life, not half the skyline.

Sometimes less is more with the posting austin.

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:21 AM
The only bad thing I said was the first post I made.
would it make you feel better if I edited all my posts?

There's no need to edit posts, just choose your words more carefully.

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:24 AM
ok,but I seriosly,and thouroughly enjoy your city.
most stuff I said was,well,just that.Stuff.
BTW,how about a X pattern on the bridge?
(pics fine now,just had to kick my computer 3 or 4 times:hell: )

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:30 AM
Here is shot of the Hutchinson shoreline, aka. Hutchinson Beach. The Beach streches across the East side of the penninsula. This was actually a man-made beach erected back in the 70's to make the city more desireable for tourists. In the slump of the late 70's through the 80's, the beach was covered with more litter than sand, cars were pushed into the shallow water, homeless would make camp on the beach, etc......... It was not until 1993 when Mayor Rosenthol cleaned things up.

During his term, Rosenthol constructed new parking lots, the boardwalk, renovated the ferry terminal, a lighthouse, and established a city carnival. Since then the Hutchinson Shore is known for residents and tourists having a good safe time. On a hot weekend during the summer, you'll find it quite hard to plant a beach chair and towel. The shore is now a popular city destination. :tup:

scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7123/shorepi2.jpg

That's all the updates until I get back. Count on a nice update by Sunday!
Until then Enjoy!:tup:

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:32 AM
[QUOTE=austin55;3014863]BTW,how about a X pattern on the bridge?/QUOTE]

I was thinking about that, but then I recalled Patrick has an "X" pattern on the Jefferson Bridge. I do not want to copy. I'll think of something better though. :tup:

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 2:33 AM
cant wait for sunday!
nice little navy peir thingo:tup:
can we have some pics from the canyons and of that tall Art Deco tower when you get back?

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 2:46 AM
cant wait for sunday!
nice little navy peir thingo:tup:
can we have some pics from the canyons and of that tall Art Deco tower when you get back?

Sure thing!:tup:

Patrick
Aug 17, 2007, 3:03 AM
1. This is a Northeastern City, so I am using that type of architecture.
2. This city is in present time, unlike Alton which isn't.
3. READ the history and information and you'll learn why the designs are the way they are.

By circling and saying that I am ripping off buildings in real life. I only put two buildings up that were inspired by ones in real life, not half the skyline.

Sometimes less is more with the posting austin.

Here we go again. You know Dac, you'd say the exact same things me and Austin would say, I mean, come on! Its really obvious that thats the Sony, NY Times, and Citigroup Building, XYZ Buildings (Including one that has a simular shape to the Galcorp Tower), but all shorter. Of course I like your city, so keep them, but why must you blow up everytime someone says something bad about your city?

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 3:03 AM
The Imperial Tower is the cities second tallest as 80 floors. The building was completed in 1925 and was the Worlds tallest until 1930 when it was surpassed by the Chrysler Building in New York. Since then the 115 floor HIFC Tower was the only one in the city to surpass the Imperial Tower. However, other buildings have rivaled the Imperial's height.

Today the Imperial Building is home to a number of commercial businesses. There is a restaurant on the 79th floor and a observation deck on the 80th floor. In 1995 the building went through a major renovation and was deemed a city landmark in 1996 by Mayor Rosenthol.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1959/decotn2.jpg

Ok, that'll do it until Sunday. Enjoy guys (especially you austin being that you wanted an upclose of this building.:tup: ).

Patrick
Aug 17, 2007, 3:05 AM
I have a tip for more crativity, sketch out some unique buildings, you'll be amazed on what you create.
http://a716.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/l_7b292742f4013322cd3e5a3e205c4013.jpg

BTW, Dac you need to fix that bridge :haha:

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 3:05 AM
Here we go again. You know Dac, you'd say the exact same things me and Austin would say, I mean, come on! Its really obvious that thats the Sony, NY Times, and Citigroup Building, XYZ Buildings (Including one that has a simular shape to the Galcorp Tower), but all shorter. Of course I like your city, so keep them, but why must you blow up everytime someone says something bad about your city?

Patrick, you are looking for something that is not there. I am not blowing up.:haha: And for the record me an austin are cool.:cool:

Dac150
Aug 17, 2007, 3:07 AM
I have a tip for more crativity, sketch out some unique buildings, you'll be amazed on what you create.
http://a716.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/l_7b292742f4013322cd3e5a3e205c4013.jpg

BTW, Dac you need to fix that bridge :haha:

It is a mess isn't it.:haha: Do you have any suggestions? I didn't want to copy your design for the Jefferson bridge.

And thank you for the suggestion. I'll give it a try in my hotel room tomorrow night, when there is no access to ssp.

Mocholate
Aug 17, 2007, 3:49 AM
Yeah , fix that bridge - you copied the approach footings from mine :haha: I AM KIDDING !! :P:P

Geez you work fast :cool:

I've said before -no matter how creative anyone can get with design ,i guarantee there is a building somewhere on earth that is similar

Austin55
Aug 17, 2007, 4:18 AM
And for the record me an austin are cool.:cool:

:cool:
yep,sketches are were I get all my inspiration

Peter
Aug 17, 2007, 7:02 PM
Good job so far. I was also going to say this would be 1000 times better if it were textured, but from the sounds of it, you don't plan on texturing it ever. If you're going to do the all white look, at least "reverse face" the blue faces and I'd like to see some shots with profiles only, no outlines, for that cell-shaded look that teras does. oh, and shadows too. Keep it up. :tup:

Aleks
Aug 17, 2007, 7:15 PM
I like the city but change the bridge. Oh, and try to sketch your buildings on paper (like people before mentioned) and you will make way better designs. Thats what I do and all of the buildings I've created in Sketchup have been drawn on paper.

Dac150
Aug 19, 2007, 2:01 AM
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Well, I'm back from my short trip to Rhode Island. Expect an update tomorrow.

rbowk
Aug 19, 2007, 2:15 AM
yey

Dac150
Aug 19, 2007, 11:11 PM
Okay, as promised the Sunday update. This update shows some commercial buildings I put up in the area of the Convention Center. You will also be able to see where the buildings fall in relation to the rest of the current skyline.

I took the advice for sketching the building prior to building it. I sketched the building with the half cylinder ontop. Sure its no picasso, but it lookes nicer than a box.
scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/2873/corg4.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1390/cooli4.jpg

Expect another update soon. Enjoy!:tup:

Austin55
Aug 19, 2007, 11:39 PM
cool! reminds me of a tower here in dallas,but this looks beter!:cheers:

Dac150
Aug 19, 2007, 11:42 PM
Thank you.

Mocholate
Aug 20, 2007, 3:55 AM
pretty cool :D

Peter
Aug 20, 2007, 5:54 AM
Good job. Nice update. That's a lot of streets!

rbowk
Aug 20, 2007, 7:54 AM
sweet there are a lot of streets

Dac150
Aug 20, 2007, 2:02 PM
Yeah, I have a lot of ground to cover.

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 2:48 AM
Ok, here are just a couple of random shots.
scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/2277/soopt0.jpg

A shot from the below grade: Cross Hutchinson Expressway
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4849/stoeq7.jpg

New stuff tomorrow. Enjoy!

Austin55
Aug 21, 2007, 2:50 AM
Pretty good for no talant!:haha:

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 2:52 AM
:haha: I try.

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 4:00 AM
GOOD NIGHT FROM HUTCHINSON........
Scroll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9818/ightjp3.jpg
:tup:

Peter
Aug 21, 2007, 4:05 AM
I really love your art deco building (second tallest I believe) as well as the infrastructure detail. It's outstanding. :tup:

Austin55
Aug 21, 2007, 4:07 AM
I like that it that it resembles New York,it gives it that "feel".

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 4:09 AM
Thank you guy's.

Peter- Yes thats the second tallest. The Imperial Tower.

rbowk
Aug 21, 2007, 6:19 AM
woh sweet how do you get the night thing ?

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 7:54 PM
I just made a big rectangle and colored it black.

Aleks
Aug 21, 2007, 8:16 PM
nice. should have added circles colored yellow to make them look like stars.

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 8:23 PM
nice. should have added circles colored yellow to make them look like stars.

I don't have all that time on my hands. ;)

Trantor
Aug 21, 2007, 8:25 PM
your city blocks are quite small.

what are their dimensions?

Dac150
Aug 21, 2007, 8:37 PM
your city blocks are quite small.

what are their dimensions?

I don't know. I don't really keep track of that. :shrug: