GreatTallNorth2
08-23-2007, 12:18 AM
I recently went on a trip to the UK. I know this may sound weird. But everytime I come back from an European city, I tend to notice how big and low quality many of our buildings are, along main downtown streets.
Toronto is amazing and does have some great buildings. But for the most part, downtown Yonge Street lacks the beautiful architecture in its buildings that you see on the high streets in the centre of London and Westminister for example.
And this is true in many Canadian cities, except maybe Quebec City, Halifax and Victoria, which seems to have more European style buildings.
Even Portsmouth has grander older buildings along its high street, then Toronto.
Your views on this. Do you think Canadian cities cheaped out a little back in the early years?
I really like the look of older European downtowns. They just have this sense of greatness.
401_King
08-23-2007, 12:23 AM
nahh..
there are some european people who see our north american downtowns and wish they had buildings like ours. the grass is greener on the other side.
kool maudit
08-23-2007, 12:29 AM
no, i don't. the great european cities were the product of absolutist monarchs and other such unpleasant systems. though paris is one of the planet's most stunning sights, i hope nobody ever has the sort of power over montreal that napoleon III had over that city.
i love the narrow lots of the dutch, though.
Rico Rommheim
08-23-2007, 12:36 AM
Wasn't Haussman's plan to rebuild Paris in the mid 19th century partly because napoleon III wanted his army to be able to enter the city easier (wide boulevards). I know that Paris before Haussman was overly dense and disease-ridden but I also read somewhere that the narrow streets were'nt convinient for an army to maneuver in case of revolution???
To me, European cities are so much more economical/functional than North American cities---no wasted space/gigantic lots etc. Everything is sort of crammed together, but it somehow works.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
GreatTallNorth2
08-23-2007, 12:44 AM
To me, European cities are so much more economical/functional than North American cities---no wasted space/gigantic lots etc. Everything is sort of crammed together, but it somehow works.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
This totally makes sense to me. Our cities seem to have less charactor than European cities. When you look at the detail in some of the buildings, both old and new, it is just amazing.
By the way, two things you will find less of in Europe: Fitness clubs and fat people. Because the cities are compact, it makes more sense to walk a lot more places. I guess the fact that they don't have buffets on every corner helps too.
Jamaican-Phoenix
08-23-2007, 12:45 AM
There's a lot to be said about cities from all over the world that I think everyone could learn from.
SpongeG
08-23-2007, 12:49 AM
Wasn't Haussman's plan to rebuild Paris in the mid 19th century partly because napoleon III wanted his army to be able to enter the city easier (wide boulevards). I know that Paris before Haussman was overly dense and disease-ridden but I also read somewhere that the narrow streets were'nt convinient for an army to maneuver in case of revolution???
yes i watched a show on National Geographic or was it Discovery just a while back that explored Paris and how it has evolved
what is interesting is how Apartments became so prominant in PAris compared to London where Townhouses were the most wanted
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/981752/2/istockphoto_981752_gracious_paris_apartment_building.jpg
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/london_townhouse.jpg
boden
08-23-2007, 12:55 AM
This is a "taking the piss thread".....
SpongeG
08-23-2007, 01:06 AM
actually there was an article in the vancouver sun a week or maybe two ago about how europeans have successfully integrated art etc into their architecture and there have been proposals to do similiar here in Vancouver (at least) and they were turned down
one involved a large woman statue or something
this is an example of what he was meaning - how there are nice decorative elements integrated
http://imagesource.allposters.com/images/pic/PTGPOD/285382~Detail-of-Building-St-Petersburg-Russia-Posters.jpg
mmmatt
08-23-2007, 01:52 AM
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more Asian?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/65/157684804_03750fd957.jpg?v=0
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1434/800935862_5259d3ecb2.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/151817624_9f501c3b58.jpg?v=1149503440
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/147509356_ca246c8737_b.jpg
They have some saweet architecture over there...
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more Australian?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/80/250183993_e24792919f.jpg?v=0
They have some nice stuff
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more Russian?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/122/310043698_1e45079cc5.jpg?v=0
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1253/1069901396_1c3f8245d1.jpg?v=1186738199
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/118880565_0a9499c60a.jpg?v=0
They have nice stuff too...
[[All pics from Flickr]]
borgo100
08-23-2007, 02:19 AM
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more like Great American Cities like Chicago or New York
http://www.richard-seaman.com/USA/Cities/Chicago/Landmarks/ChicagoSkyline1
http://www.egghof.com/NewYork/Bilder/Skyline%20Midtown%20c.jpg
i kind of do.... all canadian cities is more population.
GreatTallNorth2
08-23-2007, 02:31 AM
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more Asian?
No thanks.
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more Australian?
Maybe just a little bit.
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more Russian?
No, this forum has enough commies on it.
:cool:
mmmatt
08-23-2007, 02:36 AM
:cool:
hahaha :haha:
West_aust
08-23-2007, 02:54 AM
While were at it,
Do you wish Canadian cities were more canadian
http://www.polarrace.com/images/medres/20050416-nw-igloo.jpg
http://www.tr.k12.in.us/tre01/detersh/Images%20from%20Internet/shawnee1.jpg
http://www.lamottecamping.com/tipi_2.jpg
Jamaican-Phoenix
08-23-2007, 03:14 AM
While were at it,
Do you wish Canadian cities were more canadian
http://www.polarrace.com/images/medres/20050416-nw-igloo.jpg
http://www.tr.k12.in.us/tre01/detersh/Images%20from%20Internet/shawnee1.jpg
http://www.lamottecamping.com/tipi_2.jpg
HELLS TO THE YES!!!
Rico Rommheim
08-23-2007, 03:22 AM
^ I second that motion!
LordMandeep
08-23-2007, 04:08 AM
No, this forum has enough commies on it.
Vladamir Putin is a commie????
Canadian Mind
08-23-2007, 04:25 AM
Bah, you missed the damn igloo that is 50 stories tall in the Canadian bit.
Boris2k7
08-23-2007, 05:45 AM
For the most part, Downtown Calgary (as in, the CBD and rest of the core) used to have a very diverse and vibrant streetscape, quite reminiscient of European cities. However, over time that character eroded.
The buildings that were made in the 1800's all but dissappeared, as they either burned down in the 1908 Fire (which led to the use of sandstone, hence "Sandstone City," an early nickname for Calgary) or were demolished to make way for more "permanent structures."
Examples include the original stone building at the corner of Stephen Ave and 1st Street, a three-storey structure with a turret that was built in 1889 but also was replaced by the monolithic Bank of Montreal building in 1932, either due to economics or poor craftsmanship of the original building. There is a small handful of buildings that exist from before 1900, including the Canadian Malting and Brewing Company factory in Inglewood (1892) and the Hunt House (1875 to 1882), the oldest surviving structure in Calgary, which is right by the Elbow River, across from Fort Calgary, which was built in 1875, destroyed in 1914 and then recreated again in 1978.
Anyways, Calgary doesn't retain much of a pre-1908 building stock (much of which was in the Victorian style, and what I would consider more "European").
We do have a small wealth of buildings from 1912-1914, at the tail end of the city's first boom. Most of these are in the Edwardian or Classical styles (the versions in Calgary which I think are distinctly "American" and "Western"). While the buildings are somewhat spread around, the best streetscape are the buildings that remain on Stephen Ave and 11th Ave, south of the tracks.
In any case, a great wealth of history was lost from the 1960's onwards, and only recently has heritage preservation become widely acknowledged in Calgary.
Now, what I want to push from this is that Canadian cities always have had a blend of European and American influences. It's just that in many cities, especially those that have witnessed great fires around the beginning of the 20th century, those European influences have been blotted out and forgotten. If you really digged a little, you would find some very European things about Canadian cities. Hell, American cities used to be a lot more European, until they ripped their streetcars out, started building massive subdivisions, and built/paved over all their history. Not to say that certain American cities, especially those over in the Northeast, don't maintain a Euro-ness.
softee
08-23-2007, 06:20 AM
As if people took this as a serious thread. Oy vey.
Mille Sabords
08-23-2007, 01:02 PM
Wasn't Haussman's plan to rebuild Paris in the mid 19th century partly because napoleon III wanted his army to be able to enter the city easier (wide boulevards). I know that Paris before Haussman was overly dense and disease-ridden but I also read somewhere that the narrow streets were'nt convinient for an army to maneuver in case of revolution???
We should be so lucky as to have another Haussmann some day with the power to do what he did for Paris. Haussmann is misunderstood. The fact that Napoleon III's regime helped get things done is a direct result of decades, and centuries, of NOTHING getting done. In the years leading up to the Seven Years War and then into the French revolution and the wars led by the first Napoleon, and then the various attempts at rebuilding a cohesive French state, nothing was done in Paris.
Overly dense? Disease ridden? That wouldn't have been a problem if Paris had sewers. It didn't. Haussmann brought Paris its first comprehensive sewer system.
As for armies' ability to manoeuvre - absolutely. Victor Hugo has romanticized the perpetual uprisings of Paris, where any bunch of people could blockade the city and hold off for months, and paralyze everything. In the meantime, a century went by, the British were kicking France's ass all around the world and at some point it had to end, order had to return to France and that's what Napoleon III's legacy really is. Haussmann was the lucky bastard who got to execute in two decades what should've been done in Paris over a hundred years.
He also had a sense of aesthetics which, I'm sorry, trumps any other political consideration you may want to oppose to his work. In a state that has the rule of law, you can't keep burning down the government house and blockading streets all the time. France needed the Second Empire to refocus its attention on its place in the world and its proper system of governance - after the Second Empire, the republic took hold once and for all. I'm not saying I support absolutism, but I understand WHY it happened when it did.
Besides, the French still paralyze the country and blockade the streets every time the government tries something unpopular - it's just that, the streets they blockade look a hell of a lot better now. :D
keninhalifax
08-23-2007, 02:16 PM
To be blunt, yes. Everything is better in Europe.
habsfan
08-23-2007, 02:21 PM
This totally makes sense to me. Our cities seem to have less charactor than European cities. When you look at the detail in some of the buildings, both old and new, it is just amazing.
By the way, two things you will find less of in Europe: Fitness clubs and fat people. Because the cities are compact, it makes more sense to walk a lot more places. I guess the fact that they don't have buffets on every corner helps too.
Very true. One of my good buddies, lived in Paris for 5 months (for work) in 2004. When he left Montreal he weighed 240 pounds, 5 months later, when he came back, he had melted. He was down to a repectable 195pds.
I asked him how he lost the weight? He said it was simple. He walked everywhere he went, and for supper, he would buy a bottle of wine, a baguette and either some cheese or some kind of paté. It would cost him 6 or 7 euros.
Jamaican-Phoenix
08-23-2007, 02:22 PM
To be blunt, yes. Everything is better in Europe.
Except for the whole immigrant debate. People think we're nuts about it over here, but over in Britain, Netherlands, France, etc. It is becoming quite insane...
the dude
08-23-2007, 02:53 PM
This is a "taking the piss thread".....
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
PhilippeMtl
08-23-2007, 02:55 PM
I have a lot of French friends living in Montreal for several years and they find Montreal a nicest place to live than everywhere in Europe, for cost of living, things to do and mentality. One is from Zurich, Switzerland and he find the city very cold compare to Montreal..
spiritedenergy
08-24-2007, 04:03 AM
Very true. One of my good buddies, lived in Paris for 5 months (for work) in 2004. When he left Montreal he weighed 240 pounds, 5 months later, when he came back, he had melted. He was down to a repectable 195pds.
I asked him how he lost the weight? He said it was simple. He walked everywhere he went, and for supper, he would buy a bottle of wine, a baguette and either some cheese or some kind of paté. It would cost him 6 or 7 euros.
:yes:
kool maudit
08-25-2007, 03:30 AM
Everything is better in Europe.
rock and roll and skyscrapers are not better there.
(and rock and roll and skyscrapers go a long way.)
Gerrard
08-25-2007, 01:20 PM
Except for very few European cities, I find the vast majority of them very very dull. I've never been more bored on vacation than when I was in Rome. They all have their charms but as far as dynamic energy goes, North American cities win by a mile.
Martin Mtl
08-25-2007, 04:59 PM
Except for very few European cities, I find the vast majority of them very very dull. I've never been more bored on vacation than when I was in Rome. They all have their charms but as far as dynamic energy goes, North American cities win by a mile.
I had a fantastic time in Rome. Sure, it's not exactly "hip", but still, the city is stunningly vibrant. Have you been to London? Paris? Madrid? Barcelona? Berlin ? To me, they have more "dynamic energy" than most North American cities, where everything is usually concentrated in downtowns that are dead after 5pm. Obviously, New York, Montreal or Toronto are exceptions. I admit I never been in the West Coast, so I won't talk about L.A. or san Francisco.
spiritedenergy
08-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Except for very few European cities, I find the vast majority of them very very dull. I've never been more bored on vacation than when I was in Rome. They all have their charms but as far as dynamic energy goes, North American cities win by a mile.
booooo!!!!!!!!! Rome is truly spirited, and it's extremely gentrified in the downtown, having one of the highest property value rates in the world. There is some issue with minor crime (pickpocket), caused mainly by the lack of integration of immigrants, but overall less dangerous than NA cities I guess.
I guess you don't speak Italian, that may be the reason for your lack of fun.
caltrane74
08-27-2007, 04:05 PM
Geneva is a beautiful city for Canada to emulate.
Maybe Monaco......fabulous!
Gerrard
08-27-2007, 10:41 PM
Loved Berlin and would put it in my top 3 in the world. London's great. Paris is a bit of a living museum. Madrid and Barcelona are great too, the former my personal fave of the two but other than London and Berlin, they tend to blend together after awhile.
habsfan
08-28-2007, 12:11 AM
rock and roll and skyscrapers are not better there.
(and rock and roll and skyscrapers go a long way.)
I disagree, two of my favorite bands are British rockers...Muse and Radiohead. The Brits know their Rock'n Roll. Their music is more edgy than what comes out of the US nowadays. The only thing americans care about these days is R&B, Hip Hop and House music, which is all fine and dandy, but i find it lacks a bit of substance after a while!
MolsonExport
08-28-2007, 01:26 PM
Except for very few European cities, I find the vast majority of them very very dull. I've never been more bored on vacation than when I was in Rome. They all have their charms but as far as dynamic energy goes, North American cities win by a mile.
Wow. I just got back from Italy (Verona, Bologna, Venezia (Venice) and Firenze [Florence]), and I have never been so thrilled while on vacation. I tried to 'see it all' but I could not; there was just too much to see. There is not a single Canadian city that even approaches the vitality of these four Italian cities. Architecturally, there is absolutely no competition; Italy wins hands down.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007549.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007505.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007516.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007504.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007426.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007299.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007235.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007233.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007200.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007208.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007185.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007176.jpg
spiritedenergy
08-29-2007, 04:05 AM
Wow. I just got back from Italy (Verona, Bologna, Venezia (Venice) and Firenze [Florence]), and I have never been so thrilled while on vacation. I tried to 'see it all' but I could not; there was just too much to see. There is not a single Canadian city that even approaches the vitality of these four Italian cities. Architecturally, there is absolutely no competition; Italy wins hands down.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007549.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007505.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007516.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007504.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007426.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007299.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007235.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007233.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007200.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007208.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007185.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/Cassecroute/July2007176.jpg
ohhh my motherland... where I'll be back very soon, and poorer than when I left. Canada it isn't been as fun as i thought:(
malek
08-29-2007, 04:17 AM
Italy was literaly the center of the universe for a while, how could Canada ever compare??
MolsonExport
08-29-2007, 01:16 PM
....eh, why bother?
Gerrard
08-29-2007, 10:28 PM
I agree that Italian cities are very beautiful but energetic? Not so much. Florence was such a disappointment. Beautiful but so boring. Venice on the other hand was a revelation. It was gorgeous but how it operates now, made it seem quaint more than vital. Italy in fact was my biggest disappointment in all of Europe so far -the people were gorgeous and dressed so well but....
I agree Canadian cities are crap for the most part. They are pretty uninspired and run down but a city like Toronto is way more dynamic than anything I saw in Italy. Italy seemed like a good place to view history or shop but seriously I've eaten better Italian food in Germany.
Perhaps living in NYC has spoiled me.
LordMandeep
08-30-2007, 03:19 AM
yes driving in NYC made me never complain about driving in Toronto again.
My father said it was the most stressful driving ever.
He said he rather parallel park a tractor trailer then duel it with yellow taxi's on Lexington Ave... lol
Nah the beauty of Italian cities easily makes them better then ours.
However Milan is a very vibrant and urban and beautiful all at the same time.
MonkeyRonin
08-30-2007, 04:11 AM
Wow. I just got back from Italy (Verona, Bologna, Venezia (Venice) and Firenze [Florence]), and I have never been so thrilled while on vacation. I tried to 'see it all' but I could not; there was just too much to see. There is not a single Canadian city that even approaches the vitality of these four Italian cities. Architecturally, there is absolutely no competition; Italy wins hands down.
Ehh? So you'd really take one of those over a Toronto or a Montreal or a Vancouver? Rome, Milan, or Naples, sure, that could be understandable, but one of those tourist trap museums?
The Geographer
08-30-2007, 04:25 AM
More European? Well, in many ways yes, but I certainly hope that doesn't mean imitated old European architecture.
Daver
08-31-2007, 06:27 AM
Do you wish Canadian cities were just a little more European?
We're a multi-cultrual nation developed with people from many other nations.
So... your question is redundant
Snashcan
08-31-2007, 01:29 PM
In terms of physically, European cities tend to have a more dense and functional layout, but a lot of them lack green space, which can sometime make it a little harsh.
European cities do definately have a better atmosphere then Canadian ones, but they have developed over 1000's of years, they went through there shitty times too. I believe Canadian cities are progressing nicely, but need to put a lot more focus on people rather then cars. It would be great to get massive european style metros in Canada. But nobody wants to pay more taxes to get a better quality of life I guess.
And never would I want a Canadian city to be like a US city!!
And how can anyone ever be bored in Rome, it's friggin Rome, Cities began there, soooo much history, how can anyone not be taken back by a 2000 year old city
By the way I just got back from Barcelona, what an amazing place, that's a city most cities can take a huge lesson from.
Gerrard
08-31-2007, 03:05 PM
"And how can anyone ever be bored in Rome, it's friggin Rome, Cities began there, soooo much history, how can anyone not be taken back by a 2000 year old city"
Cities didn't really begin there but to answer your question, the history was interesting, the first day, and then got to the point where if I saw one more ancient ruin I was going to vomit. And the Colosseum is a hugely over rated disappointment.
The food in Rome was hit and miss and mostly miss (but I'm not a huge fan of Italian cuisine to begin with). Roman cuisine is dull and uninspired.
The main activity of Romans seemed to be shopping (and there is great shopping there -2nd to Milan) and that's always a bad sign for any city -it typically means there's nothing else to do (and there isn't really), the city is still firmly ruled by the Church. The thing about North American cities is that they seem unpredictable, in very few European cities will you find that same sense of unpredictability.
But I loved Venice, my favorite in all of Italy. But 70% of it is a tourist trap.
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