[mmmatt]

Which city do you think will have the most skyline change? This time in poll style...If you want to add another city we could do that, just give me the renders. :)

Calgary:
Before (wikipedia)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/PengrowthSaddledomeDay.jpg/800px-PengrowthSaddledomeDay.jpg
After
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/futurecalgary7ph0.jpg

Toronto
Before and After (credit Maldive)
http://www.upside-down.ca/maldive/5yearcompare.jpg

Vancouver
Before (credit jstottphotography)
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/stu_pendousmat/dscn2889.jpg
After (credit CtrlAltDel)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1967/vancouverin2010renderrp0.jpg

[Calgarian]

That picture you chose for calgary looks about 15 years old.

[mmmatt]

That picture you chose for calgary looks about 15 years old.

sorry..its the only one I could find from the same angle as the render...do you know of a better one??

EDIT: scratch that I found a better one

[habsfan]

I voted for Toronta!

http://www.upside-down.ca/maldive/5yearcompare.jpg

NOW THAT, is impressive!

[ErickMontreal]

T o r o n t o , Calgary, Vancouver

[ReginaGuy]

1) Toronto
2) Calgary
3) Vancouver will probably actually change more than Calgary, but no one will notice because so many of the buildings look the same, thanks to their silly "making the buildings green will make them invisible!" ideology

[nasdaq]

All three cities are really going through incredible transformations, but im gonna have to give the vote to Calgary. Seems like nearly every block in the beltline has (or will soon have) some major construction going on.

[The Kid]

Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver. But I think Calgary and Toronto are really a toss up for most changed skyline.

[ErickMontreal]

Error. sorry

[240glt]

That picture you chose for calgary looks about 15 years old.

Can't be that old.. TCPL is there..

[Boris2k7]

Can't be that old.. TCPL is there..

I think he was referring to a picture the thread starter had up there at the start. It only had a single Banker's Hall building in it.

[Haliguy]

I would have to say Calgary will have the most change. Calgary has been fairly small compared to Calgary and Toronto. The change will be more dramatic as it catches up to the other two.

[mmmatt]

Can't be that old.. TCPL is there..

Yeah...the pic he was talking about was the first one I had up which was this one:

http://www.countryinns.com/chi/images/hotels/ABCALCTY/loc_450.jpg

[Coldrsx]

i honestly hate the calgary one...

[mmmatt]

i honestly hate the calgary one...

really? I think its really nice looking...Calgary amazes me...they went from

this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/69_Calgary.jpg

to this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Calgary-Dawn-Szmurlo.jpg/800px-Calgary-Dawn-Szmurlo.jpg

in less than 40 years...thats pretty sweet.

[Coldrsx]

^that i like....future, not so much.

[Canuck]

I think Calgary - simply because they're starting off from a smaller and more compact base, compared to Toronto which is adding more and taller stuff, but is spread out and are unlikely to all appear in one "skyline" shot.

It's more or less entering a Chicago/NY thing where the skyline is just so big that even with towers popping up everywhere, it's impossible to absorb. [Note however, I am not directly comparing Toronto's skyline to Chicago's or NY's]

[mmmatt]

^that i like....future, not so much.

http://www.fosterandpartners.com/content/projects/1417/FP144696@FO571_exteriorV03.jpg

How can you not like that beautifulness?

[Boris2k7]

The rendering posted for Calgary is actually one of those I least like from CtrlAltDel. If you ask me, his more recent work is much better, though he does update those old angles with new towers.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=127611

[Wooster]

That future south view of Calgary is already well out of date. It is missing Kahanoff, Procura, Giffels (in front of Sasso/Vetro), Torode's Curtis Block development), fairry terrace etc.

It really only shows a tiny section of the city that will change. There is a lot of development further west in Beltline, as well as north along the Bow river that isn't pictured.

The Toronto rendering is fantastic because it should a much higher proportion of the new stuff going on. I'd like to see one for Calgary from further away, showing a much higher proportion of the change all the way from 14th street to where Arriva is. Honestly, the amount of change is just as dramatic as that big Toronto render shows.

Vancouver's doesn't show that much change to be honest. Ritz and Shangri-la has an impact, but not as much as a dozens of new towers in East Beltline that are rising from basically nothing.

In that Toronto rendering. 1 Bloor east looks at least twice as tall as the existing towers around there. Looks to be about 1000 ft. How tall is it expected to be? Also, what are the two projects that appear to be about 900 ft tall around college street between CBD and the Bloor area?

[WhipperSnapper]

How tall is it expected to be?

currently 80 storeys - could end up less

P.S. call me Homer

[CtrlAltDel]

Yea that rendering is old, and is quite off. When I get a good shot of the entire downtown, I'll make another one.
That Toronto render is great! I prefer that angle, it really shows how much development is going on. Nice Maldive :tup:

[WhipperSnapper]

I'll make another one.


try and find one from 2002/2003 ;)

[The Chemist]

really? I think its really nice looking...Calgary amazes me...they went from

this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/69_Calgary.jpg

to this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Calgary-Dawn-Szmurlo.jpg/800px-Calgary-Dawn-Szmurlo.jpg

in less than 40 years...thats pretty sweet.

Don't mind him - he's just jealous :D

[dtgeek]

In that Toronto rendering. 1 Bloor east looks at least twice as tall as the existing towers around there. Looks to be about 1000 ft. How tall is it expected to be? Also, what are the two projects that appear to be about 900 ft tall around college street between CBD and the Bloor area?

1 Bloor is proposed for 80 storeys and has a crown, so it would likely be close to 1000' (but they don't have approval for that height yet).

The left tower around College St. is Aura at College Park, I believe, which was proposed at 75 storeys. I doubt it will be any more than 800' though. No idea what the other large tower south of it is.

Four Seasons, Aura, and 1 Bloor also all look too wide for residential towers, I imagine they'd be narrower than that. But overall the rendering looks pretty sweet.

[raggedy13]

Not that I'm saying Vancouver deserves first place, but basing it's placing on that skyline rendering is pointless. It only has like 5 buildings added out of the 50+ u/c and proposed. What we need is somebody capable of producing a worthy rendering and using a photograph that shows as much of the skyline as possible and not just one section of it.

[cornholio]

^ If someone could do a render of the Vancouver skyline from the north east or even south east and included all the new building under construction/proposed/approved then it would be very different. Though im not saying Vancouver would be the most changed but like raggedy said those renders are good but pointless because they are taken from a angel that is having the least change.

[vanman]

Not that I'm saying Vancouver deserves first place, but basing it's placing on that skyline rendering is pointless. It only has like 5 buildings added out of the 50+ u/c and proposed. What we need is somebody capable of producing a worthy rendering and using a photograph that shows as much of the skyline as possible and not just one section of it.

That's exactly what I was thinking. And if this was a contest about which suburban city skyline will change the most in 5 years I think Vaancouver's would lead easily aside from Missisauga.

[caltrane74]

wow, vancouver is getting hammered.

Maldive took some liberties with 1 building in his rendering. For the comment that 1 Bloor, Four Seasons, and Aura look to wide; I think the proporotions are about right.

[DC83]

In regards to CHANGE, I voted Calgary!

Toronto is definately adding to their skyline, but I don't think much of a "change" will take place in the over-all appearance. It'll still be dominated by the CN Tower & Bay St... I'm actually a lil annoyed that MLSE will block the Royal York from the view :(

[caltrane74]

The Yorkville Skyline in all its glory

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z133/markus919/YBfuture.jpg

1 Bloor is the big one 250 - 300 Meters

Four Seasons is the second tallest 210 Meters

Then Manulife Centre at 166

Then Uptown at 164

The CIBC - Hudson Bay twins at 150 Meters

Then the 18 Yorkville Condo

Crystal Blu is also in the rendernig I believe.

[DC83]

Mmmm, I love the Uptown!!
Probably one of the nicest projects in the city!

[Maldive]

This thread-starter not only hijacked my thread... he kidnapped my renders!

[Coldrsx]

@calgary - change is undeniably amazing...but that "future" rendering IMO simply makes calgary look weird. Just my personal opinion, but i find when i look at toronto or vancouver they fit in well....in calgary it is hodge podge.

[Arriviste]

@calgary - change is undeniably amazing...but that "future" rendering IMO simply makes calgary look weird. Just my personal opinion, but i find when i look at toronto or vancouver they fit in well....in calgary it is hodge podge.

And we all know that a rendering done by someone in their FREE time is an exact representation of what will exist. :rolleyes:
I'd agree its not the best angle, but I think I know what your opinion is based on and its not these renderings.

[Coldrsx]

^actually it is...

as much as i may make fun of calgary, you cannot but admire its progressive development community and the significant bar raise when it comes to design of late...

what im talking about it that i find many of the calgary projects are so varied it makes the city not fit well together...now granted i complain about vancouver looking too homologous, but i find calgary just as bad in the other direction.

[rapswin!]

i voted toronto. i think calgary and toronto will have more of change in their skylines than vancouver's. but just by looking at the renders toronto has so much buildings that would make their skyline change the most. i love that render of toronto, it makes the city look more like chicago or new york

[caltrane74]

funny,

I think the render Maldive did, makes Toronto look like a South East Asian city....

Manila, Singapore, Kalaha Lumpur.......

This other rendering Maldive did makes Toronto look like Chicago.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f182/JackhammerTO/megapanosmall.jpg

The above is the view from the lake ( duh!)

[caltrane74]

Isn't it funny the 2 most booming cities in North America are in Canada?

Vancouver, Montreal and Ottawa need to get it in gear and help us blast Canadian GDP into the stratsphere!!

[The Chemist]

what im talking about it that i find many of the calgary projects are so varied it makes the city not fit well together...now granted i complain about vancouver looking too homologous, but i find calgary just as bad in the other direction.

BS. If Edmonton were the city getting all these projects, you'd be jumping up and down with joy and you know it.

Every city has varied design - it's inevitable, and Calgary is no different. I don't see you complaining about projects not 'fitting well together' (whatever the hell that means) in places with far more varying architecture as say, New York or Chicago. Your criticism strikes me more as petty jelousy and nothing more.

[caltrane74]

Sorry I forgot, Edmonton is booming too!

But no real tall proposals... I feel for Coldrsx :(

[Wooster]

Wow. Calgary is getting some variation, but it still is somewhat too homogeneous for my liking.

The formula for most of our condos is quite similar, which disturbs me slightly. We are bit stuck on this 2-3 floor podium with point tower model. I'd love to see way more perimeter block and other midrise forms (even with towers sticking out of them).

The height and colouring is quite varied. While Vancouver is a sea of very similar 20-35 storey point towers, Calgary's height variations are wild. In Beltline we are getting everything from 17 to 60 storey towers and every different height in between. Usually very site specific depending on constraints. Floorplates are restricted to 750 sq metres (650 in purely residential areas and 930 in others right adjacent to the CBD) but the massing is quite similar on all of them. Projects like Nuera add variety of colouring that is different from what we see in Vancouver too. But then again, we get a lot of blue and green tint too.

[Boris2k7]

Wow. Calgary is getting some variation, but it still is somewhat too homogeneous for my liking.

The formula for most of our condos is quite similar, which disturbs me slightly. We are bit stuck on this 2-3 floor podium with point tower model. I'd love to see way more perimeter block and other midrise forms (even with towers sticking out of them).

The height and colouring is quite varied. While Vancouver is a sea of very similar 20-35 storey point towers, Calgary's height variations are wild. In Beltline we are getting everything from 17 to 60 storey towers and every different height in between. Usually very site specific depending on constraints. Floorplates are restricted to 750 sq metres (650 in purely residential areas and 930 in others right adjacent to the CBD) but the massing is quite similar on all of them. Projects like Nuera add variety of colouring that is different from what we see in Vancouver too. But then again, we get a lot of blue and green tint too.

Josh, I would agree that the general form of the towers, as in your second paragraph, is not so varied.

However, I find the aesthetic of the buildings wildly varied. Nuera looks nothing like Astoria. Arriva looks nothing like Midtown. The office towers are even more different.

[mmmatt]

This thread-starter not only hijacked my thread... he kidnapped my renders!

sorry!! I just wanted to make it have a poll to because I was curious. Excellent renders though! :D

[wild wild west]

i honestly hate the calgary one...

I'm shocked!:omg:

(sarcasm intended)

...Anyways, I think both Toronto and Calgary will have tremendous chage in the next 5 years - but who knows which will have the most proportional change. Toronto has more and taller proposals, but also has a much bigger (and taller) stock of scrapers to begin with. Kind of like trying to determine who's going to be ahead proportionately between Chicago and Miami 5 years from now.

Sorry Vancouver - but let's face it, you owned the past 15 years.

Caltrane: Not so sure that Toronto and Calgary would be the most "booming" (if that is in regard to downtown scraper construction) cities in North America. They're up there, to be sure, but the skyscraper booms in Las Vegas, Chicago, Miami and NYC are very impressive too.

[Hootch]

I was ready to pick Calgary until I saw that panorama of a future Toronto! I actually uttered a quiet, impressed "Wow!".

But you cannot deny Calgary's skyline rivals other cities more than 3x it's size. It's going to kick ass in a few years.

[Hootch]

your criticism strikes me more as petty jelousy and nothing more.

so an Edmontonian can't criticize Calgary's skyline without "petty jealousy" being their motivation? :rolleyes:

[Coldrsx]

BS. If Edmonton were the city getting all these projects, you'd be jumping up and down with joy and you know it.



actually yes i would be...for some of them...but many i honestly wouldnt be.

I dont have a hate on for calgary kids and this isnt about Edmonton.......i just dont like how the skyline is coming together there.

sorry to not be like 99% of you in calgary.

[Maldive]

Since this thread has taken over, how up a close-up the main cluster south of Queen... perhaps a more appropriate slice given the other city renders.

Plus you can can actually see all the friggin' buildings I had to add.....


http://www.upside-down.ca/maldive/cluster.jpg

[mmmatt]

Since this thread has taken over, how up a close-up the main cluster south of Queen... perhaps a more appropriate slice given the other city renders.

Plus you can can actually see all the friggin' buildings I had to add.....


Great job Maldive! Toronto is gonna be huge! (well huge-er I suppose) haha :D

[LordMandeep]

what are the buildings just left of the CN tower??

[WhipperSnapper]

^think they represent MLS


http://www.upside-down.ca/maldive/cluster.jpg

awesome work Maldive .. its amazing knwoing that there are still dozens missing in the foreground like Liberty Village, Parade?, Nautilus, TCHC lands, etc.

[Maldive]

I know... that's why I gave up adding them. From this angle I'd just be plastering more layers on top of the existing wall of buildings in the render... became too difficult to identify them. "Making" the actual buildings is what makes the hobby fun.

But after crafting something fairly accurate from elevations, texture samples etc. ... dropping it into place... only to realize about 8% of the building is visible... you get the idea.

[borgo100]

shit, so toronto will look like this by when? 2010? 2020?

[401_King]

Maldive, in how many years do you expect the majority of the buildings in your rendering to be completed?

heres a cool pic
Toronto ~ 20 years ago

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6469/torontoearly80sen7.jpg

credit to Kamuix95 from SSC

[Montréalais]

Well, as many others, I'm sure both of Calgary and Toronto will change, but Toronto wins

[DC83]

Maldive, in how many years do you expect the majority of the buildings in your rendering to be completed?

heres a cool pic
Toronto ~ 20 years ago

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6469/torontoearly80sen7.jpg

credit to Kamuix95 from SSC

That's awesome!
Now you can hardly see the Tip Top Tailor Bldg/Lofts (btm right corner).
It's lost in a sea of tall glass & steel!

[Maldive]

Originally Posted by 401_King View Post
Maldive, in how many years do you expect the majority of the buildings in your rendering to be completed?

401: i posted a clear answer to your question... in the "other" thread. ;-)

[rbt]

shit, so toronto will look like this by when? 2010? 2020?

Good question. Certainly closer to 2010 but a handful in the render may still be rising at that time (Signature, Two City Hall, 1 Bloor East, Aura, etc.), assuming they sell. 2012 or 2013 seems reasonable.

If the residential market continues at half the pace it has been (8000 condo units per year instead of 17000) you can expect a number of 500+ foot additions by 2013 that are not in the rendering or publicly known at this time.

[caltrane74]

by 2013 everything in that render will be completed, without any doubt.

On top of that, there will be hundreads more proposals for 400ft plus buildings in the downtown core to Eglinton in that time frame which will become known to the public.

So Toronto will be extremely dense with skyscrapers. A new style Manhatten. New more conservative buildings, but just as Dense as the best city on earth.

[caltrane74]

Caltrane: Not so sure that Toronto and Calgary would be the most "booming" (if that is in regard to downtown scraper construction) cities in North America. They're up there, to be sure, but the skyscraper booms in Las Vegas, Chicago, Miami and NYC are very impressive too.

true, true true,

but read a portion of the following article...


B]Office Towers Sprout[/B]

By Albert Warson

Jul 1, 2007 12:00 PM


In the early 1990s, investment in Toronto commercial real estate development was more or less stagnant, except for an uninterrupted ripple of high-rise condo towers on the city's waterfront and throughout the downtown core.


These days, however, the city is in the midst of a revival, with three new towers encompassing 3.1 million sq. ft. under construction a few blocks apart in Toronto's CBD.

The timing could hardly be better, with the vacancy rate for Class-A downtown office space a projected 6.8% in the second quarter, virtually unchanged from the same period last year, according to CB Richard Ellis.

Institutional real estate equity firm Halcyon Real Estate Partners LP, based in Boston, owns a 20% stake in the 32-story, $250 million Telus Tower near the waterfront. (Prices are in Canadiandollars unless otherwise noted).

Halcyon is developing the 780,000 sq. ft. tower in a joint venture with Toronto-based Menkes Developments Ltd. and Hospitals of Ontario Pension Plan (HOOPP). Telus, a Vancouver national telecommunications company, will occupy about 440,000 sq. ft., or 60% of the total rentable area.

Why Toronto? “It's the fourth or fifth largest metropolitan market in North America,” says Martin Zieff, a Halcyon co-partner. “It has a very diverse and dynamic economy with great demographics, a strong economy, and a broadly based real estate market. It's a positive opportunity.” The market also is a magnet for global capital and historically has provided attractive yields.

The $400 million, 1.2 million sq. ft. 43-story RBC Centre is being developed by Toronto-based The Cadillac Fairview Corp. for lead tenants RBC Financial Group and RBC Dexia Investor Services. While most of the space will be taken by these tenants, over the past few months other corporations have signed leases accounting for 98.5% of the leasable space.

The $290 million, 50-story Bay Adelaide Centre also has landed its lead tenant. KPMG, an audit, tax and advisory firm signed up for 250,000 sq. ft. of the 1.2 million sq. ft. structure. The tower is the first of three phases of a combined 2.6 million sq. ft. on two city blocks being developed by Brookfield Properties Corp.

Previous owners had built six unfinished stories of the elevator shaft and an 1,100-stall underground parking garage, when they pulled the plug during the 1991 real estate market meltdown. The abandoned project, known locally as “the stump,” was demolished in 2006.

All three new buildings were designed to obtain the silver Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) certification standards upon completion in 2009. LEED is the North American standard for the design and construction of environmentally sustainable buildings.
Betting on Toronto


In addition to Telus Tower, Halcyon has invested an undisclosed amount in the $85 million Lumiere, a 30-story, 330-unit joint project developed by Menkes and Lifetime Urban Development near the financial district and slated for completion in early 2010.

The fund also holds an undisclosed interest in the glamorous $325 million Four Seasons Residences under construction in midtown. The 265-room hotel and 125-condo project sits around the corner from the city's answer to Park Avenue.

Halcyon Ventures LP was formed in December 2004 by and Zieff and Mark Potter, whose initial fund closed with equity commitments of (US) $152 million. Its Halcyon Real Estate Partners Master Fund LLC closed in July 2006 with commitments of (US) $303 million and has since grown to (US) $350 million, according to Zieff.

“Toronto offered attractive yields relative to comparable cities in North America,” says Zieff. “We could buy buildings for half the replacement cost in Toronto before the office market recovered in the early 2000s, so there is attractive arbitrage on a relative basis. Toronto has been a great thing for our firm.”

It has apparently been a great thing for other firms as well. The City of Toronto released a report prepared by Standard & Poor's in May stating that there were 83 high-rise buildings under construction in Toronto that month — far more than Boston, San Francisco, Atlanta, Miami, and Chicago, and surpassed only by 124 buildings in New York.
The New York of Canada


Toronto is to Canada what New York is to the U.S. It's the banking, investment, and real estate capital. The city is also a retail, education and cultural center as well as a transportation hub for road, rail and air travel. It offers a busy port handling 2.6 million metric tons annually.

Over the past five years, Toronto has attracted a growing number of U.S., German, Israeli, Australian and other international investors who consider Canada's commercial real estate a bargain, with cap rates for downtown Class-A office buildings at 6.35% as of late June.

Now, Toronto's expanding downtown is booming as never before. “It's cool to be downtown again, and executives in charge of where they're located think of that. You're only as good as your workforce,” says John Sullivan, executive vice president of The Cadillac Fairview Corp.

It seems to be working. Sullivan says Royal Bank of Canada, the anchor tenant in RBC Centre, initially signed up for 400,000 sq. ft. then bumped it up to 500,000 sq. ft. It has now signed for 625,000 sq. ft., more than half of the leasable space in the building.
Genesis of demand


These three new towers, along with office space vacated by their tenants, may well satisfy most of the demand in the short term beyond 2009, when the buildings are expected to open. Sandy McNair, president of InSite Real Estate Information Systems based in Toronto, describes the 3.1 million sq. ft. of new space as “significant, but on a percentage basis not huge and, in fact, modest compared with economic and white-collar job growth.”

Indeed, employment in the financial services sector rose by 5,000 jobs in 2006 for a total of 583,900 jobs, according to the S&P report. Between 1996 and 2000, about 135,000 jobs were added in the city, which helped reduce the surplus space, according to Donald Eastwood, general manager for economic development, culture and tourism for the City of Toronto.

But the recession following the terrorist attacks on 9-11 put everything on hold. “Things began turning around at the end of 2003, with a robust growth in health care, business and financial services pushing the demand and now employment on the waterfront,” Eastwood says.

It isn't just job growth that is driving demand for new space. Corporations have run out of room in which to put employees. The approximate 240 sq. ft. of office space per worker five years ago has shrunk to 190 sq. ft. at banks, accounting and law firms located downtown.

“They hired more people but didn't grow the space, and you can only pack people in so tight, particularly expensive people,” McNair adds. The new towers will fill up, he says, because tenants feel they won't be saddled with the costs of building upgrades for another decade, unlike tenants who renew leases in older buildings and are faced earlier with higher maintenance and improvement expenses.
Rising inventory, rising rents?


Rents in the new towers range from the high $20s to mid $30s per sq. ft., which their owners hope will increase to a range between the high $30s to $40 per sq. ft. as space fills up, McNair says.

In the meantime, potential tenants are waiting to see what moves the Bank of Canada will make regarding interest rates, commodity prices, the impact of an uneven U.S. economy and reduced global competitiveness inspired by the rising value of the Canadian dollar — almost at par with the U.S. dollar.

While downtown development was stagnant from the early 1990s, office development in the suburbs was quite healthy. Approximately 13 million sq. ft. of space in small 100,000 to 300,000 sq. ft. office buildings were built over the past seven years in the greater Toronto area, according to McNair.

That, together with the previous suburban office space inventory of 29 million sq. ft., brings the current suburban inventory to 42 million sq. ft. Added to Toronto's existing 60 million sq. ft., the combined inventories come to 102 million sq. ft.

Will rents for available space in the three new towers rise or fall as competition for tenants heats up? “Rents tend to move pretty homogeneously. Vacancy rates in office markets across Canada are below 10% and some are 5%, so there is little reason for landlords to undercut another,” explains McNair.

When the three new buildings are completed, there are bound to be some “lumpy quarters” as the market settles down, but McNair expects it will be stable again within two years.

“But if three more [office towers] start up all bets are off.” McNair notes that Toronto-based GWL Realty Advisors, which has $9.8 billion in assets under management in Canada, owns a site across from the Telus Tower and is looking for an anchor tenant to warrant the construction of a 600,000 sq. ft. office tower.

John O'Toole, executive vice president of CB Richard Ellis in Toronto, agrees there will be no lack of demand from financial and professional service firms when the new buildings open.

“Many tenants are taking sublease space downtown, whether it's renewal or relocation, but as a percentage of occupied space it's the lowest it's been in seven years,” he says. “The vacancy rate in the greater Toronto area is near an all-time low, and it's been increasingly difficult for tenants to find large blocks of contiguous space over the past 12 to 18 months.”
Business infrastructure


As tenants return to Toronto's central business district, there has also been an abrupt shift in attitude within the private sector and development community about green building practices that lead to cost-effective and more efficient office space, O'Toole notes.

“Employee appreciation, efficiency and comfort issues are becoming increasingly important, as are employee attraction and retention,” he says.

Tenants and developers have confidence in the future of the city, Eastwood adds, but the city has to do its part by upgrading its transportation infrastructure. That would help bring more people downtown and accommodate the business community, particularly if Toronto builds a long-awaited, high-speed rail link to Toronto International Airport, where an expansion was recently completed at a cost of $4.4 billion.

The city is nearing completion of a $165 million downtown underground heat exchange system drawing on cold water from Lake Ontario, which pipes heating and cooling to office buildings at a much reduced cost.

Ontario has committed more than $2.6 billion in subway extension and improvements to the Union Station transport hub downtown. A $17 billion redevelopment of the waterfront is under way with city, federal and provincial governments' participation. (See story below)

Development is no longer just mass, height and interior spaces, Eastwood says. “Torontonians are awakening to the fact that urban design impacts the quality of life in the city.”

Albert Warson is a Toronto-based writer.
TORONTO - BY THE NUMBERS

METRO POPULATION:


5.4 million

Source: Statistics Canada Population Estimates

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE: 6.6%

Source: Statistics Canada Labour Force Survey
LARGEST PRIVATE EMPLOYERS:



Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
12,000 employees

Royal Bank of Canada
11,000 employees

The Toronto Dominion Bank
11,000 employees

The Bank of Nova Scotia
10,000 employees

Source: City of Toronto Business Directory
METRO AREA VITAL SIGNS

Office:


6.6% vacancy, 1Q 2007

7.6% vacancy, 1Q 2006

$16.78 rent per sq. ft., 2Q 2007

$15.73 rent per sq. ft., 2Q 2006

Source: Cushman & Wakefield LePage
Multifamily:


3.2% vacancy, 2006

3.7% vacancy, 2005

$989 monthly gross rent, 2006

$943 monthly gross rent, 2005

Source: Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp.
Retail:


$445 sales per sq. ft., 4Q 2006

$421 sales per sq. ft., 4Q 2005

*sales figures for Canada

Source: International Council of Shopping Centers
Industrial:


5.4% vacancy, 1Q 2007

5.0% vacancy, 1Q 2006

$5.62 rent per sq. ft., 1Q 2007

$5.53 rent per sq. ft., 1Q 2006

Source: Cushman & Wakefield LePage
Hotel:


64.9% occupancy, March 2007

61.8% occupancy, March 2006

$138.86 average daily rate, March 2007

$133.86 average daily rate, March 2006

Source: HVS International
MAJOR PROJECTS:


Shangri-La The 870,000 sq. ft. development will incorporate a 5-star hotel, 493 condos and two-story glass atrium/podium at the base of the 700-ft. tower.

Developer: Westbank Projects Corp. & Peterson Investment Group Inc.

Completion: 2009/2010

Cost: $430 million

The Film Festival Centre and Tower The building will become the Toronto International Film Festival's new 150,000 sq. ft. artistic and administrative headquarters with retail space on the lower levels. A 42-story condominium tower will top off the project.

Developer: Toronto International Film Festival Group, the King and John Festival Corp., the Daniels Corp., filmmaker Ivan Reitman and the Reitman family.

Completion: late 2009/early 2010

Cost: $129 million
Jazzed-up waterfront beckons investors


Toronto offers 2,000 bountiful, waterfront acres for master-planned, mixed-use communities. As new projects get under way on once-neglected stretches, the city hopes revitalization and solid returns will draw new investment from European, Australian and other foreign investors.

“We're also planning to go to the U.S. to look for developers and investors, but they need a large enough scale to justify establishing a beachhead in Canada,” says John Campbell, president and CEO of Waterfront Toronto, formerly the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation (TWRC).

An urban park with a colorful sand beach, yellow umbrellas and wooden deck chairs opened along the central Lake Ontario waterfront in early June. The (CDN)$10.2 million project had endured a bureaucratic maze since 2003.

It was part of a revitalization program budgeted in 1999 for $17 billion. In 2001, federal, provincial and municipal government landowners each kicked in $500 million to fund the TWRC. Zoning and land acquisition have been completed for the build-out that's expected to take 25 to 30 years.

But city residents grew impatient as years passed with little to show for the money. Just two miles east of downtown, abandoned industrial sites litter the waterfront near the shuttered terminal of a failed Rochester-Toronto ferry service. In contrast, the central waterfront offers high-rise condos, entertainment, shops, restaurants, office towers and hotels.

But the eastern waterfront is changing, and Campbell says new projects include the $100 million Filmport studio being built by city-owned Toronto Economic Development Corporation (TEDCO) in partnership with Toronto Film Studios.

TEDCO will add about $10 million to help remediate the severely contaminated soil and build foundations. The city council approved a $132 million loan to TEDCO to build a seven-story office building on the east-end lakefront, and Waterfront Toronto will contribute $12.5 million.

Other projects include East Bayfront, a $3 billion project on a 55-acre site, with 7,000 residential units, and 1 million sq. ft. of commercial space, and West Don Lands, an 80-acre site with 5,800 planned residential units and 1 million sq. ft. of employment space. It will be worth an estimated $2.5 billion.

“We're investing in the public realm first, and making sure residents will have the choice of taking light rail transit to work, rather than a car. If we want a sustainable city, we can't have workers driving 40 miles to their jobs,” Campbell says. “We won't be like a commercial development where they put all the public stuff in afterwards.”
— Albert Warson

[WhipperSnapper]

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6469/torontoearly80sen7.jpg

more like 30 years

[WhipperSnapper]

That's exactly what I was thinking. And if this was a contest about which suburban city skyline will change the most in 5 years I think Vaancouver's would lead easily aside from Missisauga.




I disagree ... Vancouver suburbs besides Mississauga have far larger established skyline than their Toronto counterparts and with the new smart growth legislation in place, the Toronto counterparts are currently approving new highrise developments that make Toronto's Cityplace (or Richmond's Park Place) puny in comparison

[LordMandeep]

you can't even get to the lake in that time era...

[MolsonExport]

Now, Toronto's expanding downtown is booming as never before. “It's cool to be downtown again, and executives in charge of where they're located think of that. You're only as good as your workforce,” says John Sullivan, executive vice president of The Cadillac Fairview Corp.


Someone quickly tell MikeToronto!

[caltrane74]

Maldive and CtrlAltDel made proposal/u-c only renderings in another thread. It also would be helpful to post for this thread.

[CtrlAltDel]

Here's a couple of Calgary I made. Before and after.
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/425/beforeaftercalgarygx5.jpg

Before, after and just the new buildings, as posted in Maldive's thread.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/FutureCalgary/Calgaryproposals2.jpg

[caltrane74]

nice!

I like, I like

[SFUVancouver]

That archival photo of Toronto is amazing.
Here's one from Vancouver in about 1985. Sorry about the obnoxious watermark.

i love this pic:

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/1982/vch1982_079.jpg
Credit to Waite Air Photos and Coldrsx for the find.

Summer 2007
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9109/downtownvancouveraerialiu2.jpg
Credit to Waite Air Photos. Source (http://www.globalairphotos.com/large/BC/Vancouver/Downtown/2007/448/2)

[Wooster]

No question Vancouver has transformed the most by far in the last 20 years. The yaletown/false creek area seen in the first photo is quite similar to east village and East Beltline in Calgary now. A lot of vacant land, but huge amounts of development on the horizon. Eau Claire is similar in context to Coal Harbour. Calgary will see a similar transformation in the next 20 years. That is why it is a super fun place to be right now.

[DC83]

I think "which city has changed more in that last 30 years" should be a thread!
I've seen pictures of all 3 cities (TO, Van & Cal) and I can't find a clear winner!?
Both have changed so drastically!

[faxri]

A picture of Calgary in the Mid 70's, with the Calgary Tower looking over the rest of the buildings

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/faxri999/na-2864-24588.jpg

[IntotheWest]

Wow, TO could look amazing in a few years - right up there with the best of the best skylines!

But really, a lot of these projects are still at proposed stages in both Calgary and Toronto - so, will they all get built?? Or, is it still some wishful thinking?

If they all get built, what amazing skylines these will be...but, I can't help but be slightly more impressed with TOs.

[IntotheWest]

Why Toronto? “It's the fourth or fifth largest metropolitan market in North America,”

I hate to get picky, but 4th or 5th largest in NA based on what exactly?

[caltrane74]

I hate to get picky, but 4th or 5th largest in NA based on what exactly?

City Population

1 New York - 9 Million
2 LA - 3.5 Million
3 Chicago 2.8 Million
4 Toronto 2.5 Million

Throw in Mexico City for Fun and Toronto becomes 5th largest.

and of course Metro or CMA /CSA is so subjective, but it is likely the same as well.


EDIT:

OMG, I just realized I never said what intothewest quoted. It was the article. Man take my name out of the damn quotes...you have me responding to shit I never even said. Of course I should have been smart enough to realize i never said it in the first place, but oh well. Its done ..its done.

[IntotheWest]

^Dude, relax. Yes, it was in the article you posted....I was just questioning that one comment, no big deal. :)

But, since you responded, your last comment sums it up - CMA/CSA is so subjective...but it's hard to ignore at least CMAs for any of those - since they're all far greater than those numbers, and the article said "metropolitan market" not city proper. Considering that, it may sit around 10th or so...but hey, not trying to get picky ;)

EDIT: Considering the comment in the article mentioned North America, they wouldn't just throw in Mexico City "for fun".

[401_King]

^ Considering that, it may sit around 10th or so...but hey, not trying to get picky ;)



says who?

[IntotheWest]

^Oh man...not another can of worms. Just a comment about the largest CMA/CSAs or where ever you want to draw the borders...I was mainly looking at CSAs, but regardless, this thread is about skylines I suppose - and TO's not only looks fantastic now, it will be one of the world's best when (if?) all those get built.

[WhipperSnapper]

If depends almost entirely on city council as most of those not under construction have already met pre-sale targets (and this rendering does not give a complete picture of all the highrise development in the core) and I've seen metro ranking where Toronto is 6th (UN's definition) and others where Toronto is 11th or 12th (CSA/CMA) so it really depends on which side of Pandora's box you prefer

[J-MAN]

toronto's and Calgary's are neck and neck:notacrook:

I voted Toronto but to tell you the truth Calgary's boom makes western canada look much more competitive and even Canada as a whole and thats one thing everyone can benift from!:tup:

I really hope Calgary passes Ottowa, cause for a city of its size and being the capitol, I really never hear about it......

and to tell you the truth a lot of the time I forget it exists :(

[Greco Roman]

My vote goes for TO. I've always been impressed by their skyline, and the city too. :yes:

[IntotheWest]

If depends almost entirely on city council as most of those not under construction have already met pre-sale targets (and this rendering does not give a complete picture of all the highrise development in the core) and I've seen metro ranking where Toronto is 6th (UN's definition) and others where Toronto is 11th or 12th (CSA/CMA) so it really depends on which side of Pandora's box you prefer

I don't find that surprising...TO's core has been a solid and exciting area to be for years, and just keeps getting better.

And 6th, I can agree on. It was nitpicky, and those from about 4th to 11th/12th are so close anyway - I shouldn't have even said anything, just caught my attention originally. :)

[caltrane74]

man toronto's and Calgary's are neck and neck:notacrook:

I voted Toronto but to tell you the truth Calgary's boom makes western canada look much more competitive and even Canada as a whole and thats one thing everyone can benift from!:tup:

I really hope Calgary passes Ottowa, cause for a city of its size and being the capitol, I really never hear about it......

and to tell you the truth a lot of the time I forget it exists :(

I guess cause its a government city.

Calgary has the excitment of big oil money...and nothing seems able to stop it.

[O-Town Hockey]

I thought this was a really awesome rendering. Not my own (http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/802FutureTorontoSkylineIn2010_pic1.jpg). A different angle than most of them.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/802FutureTorontoSkylineIn2010_pic1.jpg

[borgo100]

no L tower?

[Canuck]

This was made years ago by a member of UrbanToronto. Several notable changes have been made since then:
- Bay-Adelaide design change
- 1 King West completed
- Numerous CityPlace buildings completed
- Spire Completed
- BCE III is never discussed these days

[LordMandeep]

BC3 will only be restarted only if the Office market booms significantly...


However i doubt they will make it exactly the Canada Trust towers.

[caltrane74]

If only 1 King West looked that good.

[DC83]

If only 1 King West looked that good.

1 King West DOES look that good *drool*...
Spire is also looking damn sexy!

[WhipperSnapper]

BCE 3 pre-leasing at i35 storeys

[caltrane74]

BCE 3 pre-leasing at i35 storeys


Brookfield will probably want to focus on leasing out Bay Adelaide before gearing up for "Brookfield Place" 3

[WhipperSnapper]

double

[WhipperSnapper]

no doubt however there are few large tenants that may want to stay put in "Brookfield Place" with no room to expand though

[MonkeyRonin]

If only 1 King West looked that good.

Looks way better in real life.

[Canadian74]

Calgary. :D

[Waterlooson]

Calgary.

[J-MAN]

To tell you the truth Vancouver isnt getting enough credit :(

Especially since its my favorite Canadian city im actually getting a little pissed off, Im just guessing but all the vancouver and victoria members probably all voted calgary:shrug:

maybe if they showed a real photo of the skyline with the change thats happening (I would personaly vote 1) Toronto
2) Vancouver
3) Calgary

Naturally it happens to be biggest to smallest

[zoomer]

/\ I voted Toronto.

[raggedy13]

I voted Toronto as well, but if I actually saw a complete future skyline rendering of Vancouver maybe my mind would change? :shrug:

[Calgarian]

To tell you the truth Vancouver isnt getting enough credit :(

Especially since its my favorite Canadian city im actually getting a little pissed off, Im just guessing but all the vancouver and victoria members probably all voted calgary:shrug:

maybe if they showed a real photo of the skyline with the change thats happening (I would personaly vote 1) Toronto
2) Vancouver
3) Calgary

Naturally it happens to be biggest to smallest

What are you basing this off of? Calgary and Toronto are basically doubling their skylines, Vancouver is just adding (as others have said before) exclamation points to theirs.