[dmuzika]

I was to the Labour Day Classic at McMahon Stadium. With all the talk of a new Blue Bombers stadium in Winnipeg, are there any plans to build a new stadium in Calgary? Canad Inns Stadium is only 7 years older than McMahon Stadium.

[wild wild west]

No plans for a new facility, just talk of renovations to McMahon unortunately. Too bad - this is a 40-year-old facility. We are a city of over 1 million with a stadium designed for a city of 300,000.

A buddy of mine who hails from Winnipeg showed us the website for their planned new building. I must say, a VERY impressive facility by Canadian standards. I'd love to see McMahon replaced with something like that.

[unibrain]

The next major McMahon renovation is probably another 3-4 years away... They plan on expanding the concourse, adding more seating, luxury boxes, expanded concessions and player dressing/training rooms.

Personally, I think they could have some expanded seating over the Red & White club, and also seating over the team dressing rooms to get seating all the way around.

[SHOFEAR]

Been there once for a esk/stamp game and I was stunned. Pretty sure that there are third world countries that have nicer stadiums.

It does have two big advantages over Commonwealth. Excellent sight lines because you don't have a giant track between the crowd and the field and lots of parking. I know that there are going to be a bunch of you say thats a bad thing, but atmosphere plays a huge role in the game day experience. Seeing thousands of people toss footballs and BBQ before the game beats the hell out of sitting on a train and having to put up with the nut job besides you or, in our case, walk 10-15 blocks through the worst part of the city and hope your car is still there when you return four hours later.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Have you seen Taylor Field? In the pouring rain, when the lights go out? :)

[Riise]

Although I like the preservation of older sporting venues, like the Saddledome, I'm up for getting rid of McMahon. I don't think it has the historical appeal of other venues like Old Trafford or Yankee Stadium, nor does it have the aesthetic appeal of the Dome. I think the city could do with a better looking and more modern stadium. I'm up for renovation the Dome and down with imploding McMahon. I think I even have a pretty cool concept idea!

[Doug]

There shouldn't be one cent of public money spent on McMahon. Currently it gets used for what, 8 Stamps home games per year?

[HomeInMyShoes]

^^Agreed on not much historical value. None of the Prairie stadiums have much historical value. There's memories, but there's nothing architecturally significant about any of them and a decent plaza of honour would serve the memories just as well. I'm all for imploding the three Prairie stadiums and starting again. Calgary definitely deserves better as does Winnipeg and Regina.

I don't know, what about outdoor concerts, soccer games, high school football playoffs? Taylor field gets used for a few things and should be used for more. I'm thinking if public money isn't used to some extent the chance of any CFL team getting a new stadium is about something less than 0.

[Riise]

...lots of parking. I know that there are going to be a bunch of you say thats a bad thing, but atmosphere plays a huge role in the game day experience. Seeing thousands of people toss footballs and BBQ before the game beats the hell out of sitting on a train...

True, but I think that can be replicated by replacing the parking with pubs and a park. Also, burger and hot dog stands on the way to the stadium, what a scent to smell while walking to the game!

[SHOFEAR]

^Have you seen Taylor Field? In the pouring rain, when the lights go out? :)

No. :hell:

The mother corp decided not to return to the game after the delay.

[mersar]

I don't know, what about outdoor concerts, soccer games, high school football playoffs?

One Word: NIMBY. Especially in regards to concerts there. The property owners in the areas around the stadium are a pretty loud group in getting their dislike of concerts across, I can't even recall the last time a concert took place there beyond the scope of a halftime show performance.

There are a good number of highschool and other football leagues that do use the stadium on occasion, along with the University (who is the owner for those who didn't know). But its still pretty unused, mainly as most of those groups simply can't draw enough people to make it worth using (the last Dino's football game I went to had about 5,000 people at it.... and the stadium seemed deserted)

[93JC]

There shouldn't be one cent of public money spent on McMahon.

Theoretically any money spent on it will be 'public' money: the U of C owns it.

Currently it gets used for what, 8 Stamps home games per year?

10 (9 regular season, 1 pre-season). Hypothetically up to 12 CFL games per season, if the Stamps finish 1st or 2nd in their division and Calgary hosts the Grey Cup that year.

It's also home to the Dinos football team, and several hundred amateur events (mostly football (including the high school championships), field hockey and soccer).

I don't know, what about outdoor concerts, soccer games, high school football playoffs?

As mentioned above, McMahon hosts soccer games and the high school football playoffs (or, at least, the championship games. I can't recall if it's the entire playoffs or not. I'm inclined to believe only the championship games...).

They used to have concerts at McMahon, but area residents put a stop to that sort of thing about 10 years ago...

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Been there once for a esk/stamp game and I was stunned. Pretty sure that there are third world countries that have nicer stadiums.

It does have two big advantages over Commonwealth. Excellent sight lines because you don't have a giant track between the crowd and the field and lots of parking. I know that there are going to be a bunch of you say thats a bad thing, but atmosphere plays a huge role in the game day experience. Seeing thousands of people toss footballs and BBQ before the game beats the hell out of sitting on a train and having to put up with the nut job besides you or, in our case, walk 10-15 blocks through the worst part of the city and hope your car is still there when you return four hours later.

I have been to the Labour Day classic many times and I do like the stadium especially on a sunny day. I am not sure if the track in Edmonton is that much of a deterrent nor the parking. I always park far away and never had any problems with my car. And if the track bugs you then, hey, if you go on Friday, why not buy a regular ticket and forgo the family fun section and help support the CFL...:banana:

[93JC]

One Word: NIMBY. Especially in regards to concerts there. The property owners in the areas around the stadium are a pretty loud group in getting their dislike of concerts across, I can't even recall the last time a concert took place there beyond the scope of a halftime show performance.


Off the top of my head it was Lilith Fair, '97 or '98 I think.

Oh, and the Blues and Roots Festival a couple times. I think the last one was '04 or '05.

[SHOFEAR]

[

I have been to the Labour Day classic many times and I do like the stadium especially on a sunny day. I am not sure if the track in Edmonton is that much of a deterrent nor the parking. I always park far away and never had any problems with my car. And if the track bugs you then, hey, if you go on Friday, why not buy a regular ticket and forgo the family fun section and help support the CFL...:banana:[/QUOTE]

My family has had season tickets for the last ten years and I've only missed a handful of games in that span. The parking issue doesn't effect me, I'll walk from my south side house if I have to. The parking issue is a huge deterant to the occasional fan however. I hear it all the time.

But I don't want to derail this thread with commonwealth. McMahon has something that very few stadiums in Canada have--a pre game party atmosphere. I know many of us have a somewhat eltist urbanistic attitude and look down on people who depend on their car for everything, I'm no different. But you have to view parking lots around football stadiums as an intregal part of the venue. You can't place a venue that gets used by a big crowd 10 times a year in an urban area or expect services to get built around it to substitute as warming up venues for game goers.

[Dalreg]

Calgary should be next in line for CFL stadium expansion, replacement. Montreal is working on a significant expansion, Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto all are better than average. Hell Hamilton has had rumors talk of a new stadium. Maybe Calgary can jump up and do something.

A few years back there were even preliminary plans to convert Taylor Field in Regina to a domed stadium! Calgary will eventually be forced to do something, as bandaids only last for so long.

The biggest question is size? Location?

45,000 should be good sized. Stampede grounds or adjacent would be good location.

[Beltliner]

Oh, no--not again.... *SPLAT*

As much as I would probably be the first bloke to sign up if HOK Sport came round with plans for a brand-new 50,000-seater at no cost to me (and while I'm dreaming, where's my fracking pony? :D), McMahon Stadium is here to stay, folks, and that's not a bad thing. It's not just that it's cheaper than buillding from scratch to renovate the concourses, do a full-on kapital'nyy remont of the clubhouse, replace the super-white nosebleeds with club seating, and maybe even sling up a couple of cantilevered upper decks sometime down the road, as Ted Hellard et alia are proposing. We are talking about a strategic asset for the city as a whole for which most big-burg mayors would gladly pawn their grandmothers--a heavily used professional, amateur, and recreational athletic facility within a reasonable distance of the downtown core that is accessible both to party-hearty tailgaters and to light rail passengers. Sure, the Stamps are the biggest-name tenants of the facility, but it serves a number of other constituencies--high school, junior, and university football; the occasional concert; C-Train park-and-riders; and yes, you crazy little socceroos, association rules matches, too, and I could really do without being made to feel at fault for pro soccer sides in this town never being able to draw flies even with free horse puckey and potato salad, bol'shoye spaseebuh.

The place probably could use a fresh coat of paint, wider concourses, a little exterior groundskeeping, and a booth where a fan could actually buy a Trad, and a station on a 16 Avenue crosstown LRT route would make getting there much easier on game days, especially if upper decks become a reality. All that being said, however, McMahon Stadium is a solid and eminently serviceable football stadium that on the whole has served Calgarians well enough to deserve a little respect from the younglings.

[/rant]

[The Geographer]

I agree with the "keep McMahon crowd". It is a very well used facility that is already in an okay location. The capacity wouldn't need to be increased by that much, and I just don't see the football market supporting a new luxury stadium.

If the city is going to spend the money, they should spend it on building new and renovating old sports facilities for kids. Isn't there a crisis in junior hockey from lack of arenas?

[Wooster]

I've always advocated a move of the stadium to a less desirable location along the SE LRT line. Where McMahan sits now is one of the best locations for a fantastic TOD geared toward students and university staff. It would be nice to have neighbourhoods around U of C that had a Cambridge, Mass feel and vitality to it. With McMahan gone you could build a neighbourhood for 10 000 there. The land is so valuable, U of C could likely build another stadium just from the sale of land over time.

[wild wild west]

The current location of McMahon would be fine were it not for the NIMBYs; with that said I'm OK with selling the site for redevelopment and building a new facility somewhere sufficiently far away from the whiners to allow more concerts. McMahon would be utilized more for concerts if the ridiculous noise concerns were not a factor. Calgary is big enough to get just about every major concert tour out there, provided we have an appropriate facility; a new stadium located so as to remove any noise concerns would give us just that.

An acceptable alternative, of course, would be to elect a mayor and Council who had the fortitude to tell the NIMBYs to get stuffed and live with the noise; however we all know that ain't going to happen.

[Beltliner]

I've always advocated a move of the stadium to a less desirable location along the SE LRT line. Where McMahan sits now is one of the best locations for a fantastic TOD geared toward students and university staff. It would be nice to have neighbourhoods around U of C that had a Cambridge, Mass feel and vitality to it. With McMahan gone you could build a neighbourhood for 10 000 there. The land is so valuable, U of C could likely build another stadium just from the sale of land over time.

I hear you, Josh--I just don't believe my ears.

If someone seriously wanted to destroy the credibility of transit-orientated development as a land-use alternative in Calgary, then that person would likely suggest tearing down McMahon Stadium in favour of a TOD. As I recall, the West Campus was already slated for college-town development in conjunction with new academic and commercial facilities; furthermore, with the Chinook, Anderson, and most relevantly to the University situation the Brentwood lands sitting empty, gathering dust and all but begging for extreme makeovers as we speak, I would have thought that we had bigger and better things to do than to speak in all gravity of replacing a functional, reasonably central, and more to the point most of the way paid for athletic facility with an isolated Autostade 2.0. A bright young planner of your repute can and should aim higher, Josh--surely you recognise the obvious perception that nuking McMahon in favour of novostroyki smacks of an idée fixé motivated from spite.

[Distill3d]

The current location of McMahon would be fine were it not for the NIMBYs; with that said I'm OK with selling the site for redevelopment and building a new facility somewhere sufficiently far away from the whiners to allow more concerts. McMahon would be utilized more for concerts if the ridiculous noise concerns were not a factor. Calgary is big enough to get just about every major concert tour out there, provided we have an appropriate facility; a new stadium located so as to remove any noise concerns would give us just that.


i'm with you on this one. the U of C (who owns McMahon) could more then certainly use the land for futher development. McMahon should be moved to a more central location, and close to the Saddledome or where ever the Flames build a new arena in any regards. Calgary could attract greater concerts to the city with an outdoor facility capable of handling 60,000+ (IE: The Police, The Rolling Stones...), and especially one closer to LRT.

i've been to several games at McMahon, usually cheering for the opposing squadron, and i've also been to games at Commonwealth in Edmonton (also cheering for the opposing team), and i have to say that in my opinion i would much prefer a game at Commonwealth to McMahon.

[Nudrock]

Over the Labour Day weekend, the Calgary Herald ran a few "Special Reports" on the state of the CFL. One of articles was about the aging stadiums in the league. It said that Stamps ownership would like to use a stadium that holds 30,000 to 35,000 max.
So if anyone would come up with the money for a new stadium for the team, it wouldn't be larger than 35,000.

I think Winnipeg's new stadium size will be great for the team and the city. I don't know what they would do if they want to host a Grey Cup game which requires 45,000+ seats.

As for concerts, I was at the Police concert in Edmonton and was quite dissappointed on how empty it was. The whole upper tier was empty and about 35% of the lower tier was empty due to obstructed views from on-field light and sound scaffolding. I'm guessing the attendance was under 35,000 in a stadium that can hold close to 70,000 if you include floor seating.

[ProudlyCanadian]

As for concerts, I was at the Police concert in Edmonton and was quite dissappointed on how empty it was. The whole upper tier was empty and about 35% of the lower tier was empty due to obstructed views from on-field light and sound scaffolding. I'm guessing the attendance was under 35,000 in a stadium that can hold close to 70,000 if you include floor seating.

Atmosphere, one of the big advantages to a smaller stadium. If the Stamps were to seek out a new playing field, I wouldn't want to see anything bigger than 40,000 seats. Otherwise, same rules apply, central location with good transit connections and parking.

p.s.

Stamps,

Please be sure the new stadium has a well ventilated concourse that doesn't smell like a outhouse. :yuck:

[Wooster]

I hear you, Josh--I just don't believe my ears.

If someone seriously wanted to destroy the credibility of transit-orientated development as a land-use alternative in Calgary, then that person would likely suggest tearing down McMahon Stadium in favour of a TOD. As I recall, the West Campus was already slated for college-town development in conjunction with new academic and commercial facilities; furthermore, with the Chinook, Anderson, and most relevantly to the University situation the Brentwood lands sitting empty, gathering dust and all but begging for extreme makeovers as we speak, I would have thought that we had bigger and better things to do than to speak in all gravity of replacing a functional, reasonably central, and more to the point most of the way paid for athletic facility with an isolated Autostade 2.0. A bright young planner of your repute can and should aim higher, Josh--surely you recognise the obvious perception that nuking McMahon in favour of novostroyki smacks of an idée fixé motivated from spite.

I don't understand those words, but I assume their negative. ;)

All I'm saying is that if McMahan is in need of replacement or a major renovation there are better locations in the city that serve a use like a stadium. Not some far flung location, but a place, perhaps built over the railyards in Alyth right on the SELRT line where there are fewer noise conflicts. Then the stadium could be much better utlized year round with more concerts and events, thereby serving as a better TOD than where it currently sits.

This would open up prime land, down the road - perhaps far after Brentwood, West Campus and other TODs are built up for a fantastic new community. I see the opportunity for the area surrounding the university on all sides to be a truly outstanding mixed-use district.

Personally, I think large stadiums are best suited for transit-accessible, but more marginal lands that could never see residential or mixed-use development.

[Wooster]

I hear you, Josh--I just don't believe my ears.

If someone seriously wanted to destroy the credibility of transit-orientated development as a land-use alternative in Calgary, then that person would likely suggest tearing down McMahon Stadium in favour of a TOD. As I recall, the West Campus was already slated for college-town development in conjunction with new academic and commercial facilities; furthermore, with the Chinook, Anderson, and most relevantly to the University situation the Brentwood lands sitting empty, gathering dust and all but begging for extreme makeovers as we speak, I would have thought that we had bigger and better things to do than to speak in all gravity of replacing a functional, reasonably central, and more to the point most of the way paid for athletic facility with an isolated Autostade 2.0. A bright young planner of your repute can and should aim higher, Josh--surely you recognise the obvious perception that nuking McMahon in favour of novostroyki smacks of an idée fixé motivated from spite.

I don't understand those words, but I assume their negative. ;)

All I'm saying is that if McMahan is in need of replacement or a major renovation there are better locations in the city that serve a use like a stadium. Not some far flung location, but a place, perhaps built over the railyards in Alyth right on the SELRT line where there are fewer noise conflicts. Then the stadium could be much better utlized year round with more concerts and events, thereby serving as a better TOD than where it currently sits.

This would open up prime land, down the road - perhaps far after Brentwood, West Campus and other TODs are built up for a fantastic new community. I see the opportunity for the area surrounding the university on all sides to be a truly outstanding mixed-use district.

Personally, I think large stadiums are best suited for transit-accessible, but more marginal lands that could never see residential or mixed-use development.

The exception is if Mcmahan can stay where it is and be surrounded somehow with a district that resemble's san diego's stadium district.

[Wooster]

dp

[Wooster]

tp

[bendecido]

The next major McMahon renovation is probably another 3-4 years away... They plan on expanding the concourse, adding more seating, luxury boxes, expanded concessions and player dressing/training rooms.

Personally, I think they could have some expanded seating over the Red & White club, and also seating over the team dressing rooms to get seating all the way around.

According to the article about the renovations in the Sun a few days ago they said that seating would be decreased, not increased. The capacity was said to be 31,000 after renovations. I think they need to do the renovations and then boost capacity to about 45,000 seats.

[The Geographer]

According to the article about the renovations in the Sun a few days ago they said that seating would be decreased, not increased. The capacity was said to be 31,000 after renovations. I think they need to do the renovations and then boost capacity to about 45,000 seats.

Do that many people actually care about football? The games don't seem to sell out too often. Smaller is generally better if the capacity isn't going to be filled... although I do see the utility for concerts.

[IntotheWest]

^There was a good article in the Herald Friday or Saturday, about the state of the CFL (good...as far as the CFL goes), new stadiums (only Winnipeg is planning one), and the economics of actually building one (they won't get their money back...better to keep maintaining the old ones).

What would worry me about building a new one, is as Doug points out 8 home games a year, maybe $500k profit a year (on a good year?), and who knows where the CFL will go.

With talks of TO going after an NFL team seeming more likely at some point (rumours are going after the Bills, so the article mentions), and the CFL possibly thinking of dipping south of the 49th (yes, again...but this time to - Fargo???), and seeing a market in Quebec City, and Halifax (hello! What about London, Victoria, Kelowna, Saskatoon???) - I'd question where it'll all end up.

[The Geographer]

Oh God, the US? Another Baltimore Colts Grey Cup?

[Jay in Cowtown]

According to the article about the renovations in the Sun a few days ago they said that seating would be decreased, not increased. The capacity was said to be 31,000 after renovations. I think they need to do the renovations and then boost capacity to about 45,000 seats.

31,000?!? fucking wow! what a nice High School Stadium we'll have then.

With Calgary's population rising quickly, I'd say 45 - 50,000 seats isn't that bad of an idea... key word is "seats"... install some fucking seats, only drunk college kids should be subjected to cold back breaking metal benches!

If the CFL was smart they'd start the season in May... so it wouldn't conflict with the NFL and windchills.

[ProudlyCanadian]

31,000?!? fucking wow! what a nice High School Stadium we'll have then.

With Calgary's population rising quickly, I'd say 45 - 50,000 seats isn't that bad of an idea... key word is "seats"... install some fucking seats, only drunk college kids should be subjected to cold back breaking metal benches!

If the CFL was smart they'd start the season in May... so it wouldn't conflict with the NFL and windchills.

They haven't been selling out their games. Why would they add capacity? Although, I do agree with you on the seats. Perhaps that is the reason why crowds have been below capacity.

[Jay in Cowtown]

They haven't been selling out their games. Why would they add capacity? Although, I do agree with you on the seats. Perhaps that is the reason why crowds have been below capacity.

That, and they really aren't that good!

I truly believe more people would go to games if the stadium was more modern and had seats throughout... we're a spoiled society now, and McMahons 60's charm just doesn't cut it anymore... most people I know including myself fly to the states to watch games yearly, and alot of that has to do with the stadiums they play in, they're a sight to see!

[craner]

31,000?!? fucking wow! what a nice High School Stadium we'll have then.

With Calgary's population rising quickly, I'd say 45 - 50,000 seats isn't that bad of an idea... key word is "seats"... install some fucking seats, only drunk college kids should be subjected to cold back breaking metal benches!

If the CFL was smart they'd start the season in May... so it wouldn't conflict with the NFL and windchills.

You summed up a lot of my points here Jay - I agree with you.
It kind of bugs me that in a city as rich as Calgary a few corporations and/or individuals can't get together and build a new stadium - it's overdue. Where is the Frank? McMahon of 2007 ? (granted we're talking hundreds of millions $$ these days). I would say 40 000 SEATS (w/ backs) and all the boxes etc. would be perfect capacity. I wouldn't want it too big and lose the atmosphere. I actually like watching a game at McMahon because as someone mentioned you are so close to the feild unlike Commonwealth - beautiful stadium but that track makes the field seem separated from the fans. NO DOME please, and build it close to downtown (East Village?).
If Winnipeg can do it why can't we?;)

[craner]

^There was a good article in the Herald Friday or Saturday, about the state of the CFL (good...as far as the CFL goes), new stadiums (only Winnipeg is planning one), and the economics of actually building one (they won't get their money back...better to keep maintaining the old ones).

What would worry me about building a new one, is as Doug points out 8 home games a year, maybe $500k profit a year (on a good year?), and who knows where the CFL will go.

With talks of TO going after an NFL team seeming more likely at some point (rumours are going after the Bills, so the article mentions), and the CFL possibly thinking of dipping south of the 49th (yes, again...but this time to - Fargo???), and seeing a market in Quebec City, and Halifax (hello! What about London, Victoria, Kelowna, Saskatoon???) - I'd question where it'll all end up.

I always think about expanding the CFL to these places too - especially Saskatoon. I think it could be a huge rivalry with Regina like Calgary & Edmonton. I guess the issue is stadiums in these places don't exist. I was hoping Halifax would get the Commonwealth Games. It would be great to have a 12 or 14 team CFL.

[craner]

^There was a good article in the Herald Friday or Saturday, about the state of the CFL (good...as far as the CFL goes), new stadiums (only Winnipeg is planning one), and the economics of actually building one (they won't get their money back...better to keep maintaining the old ones).

What would worry me about building a new one, is as Doug points out 8 home games a year, maybe $500k profit a year (on a good year?), and who knows where the CFL will go.

With talks of TO going after an NFL team seeming more likely at some point (rumours are going after the Bills, so the article mentions), and the CFL possibly thinking of dipping south of the 49th (yes, again...but this time to - Fargo???), and seeing a market in Quebec City, and Halifax (hello! What about London, Victoria, Kelowna, Saskatoon???) - I'd question where it'll all end up.

I always think about expanding the CFL to these places too - especially Saskatoon. I think it could be a huge rivalry with Regina like Calgary & Edmonton. I guess the issue is stadiums in these places don't exist. I was hoping Halifax would get the Commonwealth Games (and thus a stadium). It would be great to have a 12 or 14 team CFL.

[freeweed]

Perhaps inappropriate thread, but I don't want to invade the Calgary thread and it's sort of ontopic...

Anyone hear the rumour that we might be getting a new baseball park? Supposedly the Vipers mgmt has decided to re-do the existing stadium (even with pathetic attendance numbers)?

Personally, I think that whole area needs a massive re-development bigtime, whether it's TOD or new sporting facilities or whatever... it's not 1975 anymore folks...

[IntotheWest]

^Baseball sucks, and being less than Major Leagues or Triple-A sucks even more :-) Just personal opinion...

From the article I mentioned (geez, I'll have to dig it up), the CFL believes 10 teams would be "ideal". Personally, the CFL bores me. I'm not a big American-style "football" fan, but the CFL just seems to be missing the big competition, and necessary hype that the NFL and college football has to attract casual fans (unless you live in Sask).

If TO gets the NFL, the CFL attendance numbers will dwindle in our largest market (the CFL apparently doesn't think so though). The move to so-called "border" cities like Portland and SLC, seems to intrigue them though...I was really surprised by them mentioning Fargo, and yet in Canada they completely skipped over a place like Saskatoon. Yes, they'd need a stadium, but I don't believe Fargo has one either. The fact that Americans won't want any league called "Canadian" in the name - or the we're-sticking-to-our-Canadian-only-3-down style - seems to be lost on them (actually, that last one is lost on me too).

12 to 14 teams would be necessary - 20 at least would be ideal. It just won't happen without completely revamping the CFL to be a true NFL "farm league" of sorts.

[IntotheWest]

You summed up a lot of my points here Jay - I agree with you.
It kind of bugs me that in a city as rich as Calgary a few corporations and/or individuals can't get together and build a new stadium - it's overdue.

Maybe they should just play the games at the Stampede grounds...I believe it seats about 25,000 (incl the in-field) :-)

[Jay in Cowtown]

Maybe they should just play the games at the Stampede grounds...I believe it seats about 25,000 (incl the in-field) :-)

It has a better grandstand than McMahon!

[bendecido]

Selling out games has little to do with the need for a new stadium. Look at MLB. They know that to draw fans they need to create atmosphere; to creat atmosphere you need a nice, cool, facility that people want to go to. If the Stamps, or the U of C, were to do it right they would renovate or build a facility that was just full of variety and fun. There are enough die hard Stamps fans to guarentee the 30K every game, but if the stadium were kick-ass, then thousands of others would go just to go.

[bendecido]

dp

[onanewday]

I almost laughed out loud reading comments that we should implode McMahon Stadium much like we should implode the Saddledome at some point - if they build a new stadium - which no one intends to at this time and probably not any time soon. I don't why the solution is always to tear down structures so easily without looking at what they have represented. McMahon could be very easily renovated. Why is the solution to always knock things down? From my perspective they are part of our city's history in both cases. As to having at 45,000 seat structure, what the heck would fill those seats?

[SHOFEAR]

If TO gets the NFL, the CFL attendance numbers will dwindle in our largest market (the CFL apparently doesn't think so though). The move to so-called "border" cities like Portland and SLC, seems to intrigue them though....

Which is why the NFL will never go to Toronto. There are plenty or markets in the US that could support a football team. A rebranded CFL with the legitimacy of numerous Canadain cities making an entry into the US is not worth it.

[Jay in Cowtown]

As to having at 45,000 seat structure, what the heck would fill those seats?

Fucking Rider & Perogie Nation... for at least 2/3 games a year!

[DLLB]

I think it is very unlikely that Calgary will get a new stadium for quite a while. As a result, I hope they do something to McMahon as I think it is a bit of a disgrace for a city with a metro population of 1.1 million. I reeks of the 60's without any real conveniences of newer stadiums.

I sure hope Winnipeg, gets its new stadium. I think it would be great for that city.

[craner]

I think it is very unlikely that Calgary will get a new stadium for quite a while. As a result, I hope they do something to McMahon as I think it is a bit of a disgrace for a city with a metro population of 1.1 million. I reeks of the 60's without any real conveniences of newer stadiums.

I sure hope Winnipeg, gets its new stadium. I think it would be great for that city.

I agree - I just don't get how Winnipeg can do it and we can't.:shrug:

[CCF]

Saskatchewan can't support two teams. Our fanbase in Regina depends on the whole province and there isn't enough corporate support in the province to support two teams. Not to mention the stadium we do have needs work and the idea of building a stadium in Saskatoon is a dream at best.

It'd be nice but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

[Thunderball]

McMahon needs a huge amount of work to make it worthy of an affluent city with over 1m people...

However, CFL is not a major draw, so the stadium would have to be made viable for other events to make up for it. The size would have to be closer to 50k too, as to have a faint hope of major events (Commonwealth, Summer Olympics, World Cup).

I would do the following:

-Conversion to Grass, complete with movable surface to attached greenhouse for proper grass maintenance and to better facilitate concerts. move dressing rooms and adjust red & white club accordingly to accomodate and attach to stadium
-Partial Roof covering everything but field surface and for noise mitigation
-Increase to 50000 seats, enclose field surface with seats also for noise mitigation
-Add luxury boxes
-Remove all benches
-Complete revamp and expansion of concourse, adding better ventilation and enclosing for comfort

Estimated Cost: $250-350 million (UofC, Stampeders, City, Province, Federal monies, Alberta and/or Canadian Soccer Association, facility naming rights to likely contribute)

Main Tenant: Calgary Stampeders (CFL)
New Probable Tenants: Canadian National Soccer Team, Major Concert Tours, International Soccer Clubs on Summer Promotional Tours (Man U, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Milan, Juventus, etc.), potential MLS/USL Soccer franchise, Canadian National Rugby Team
Other Tenants: U of C, Rugby, Minor and Major Soccer, Minor Football

[The Geographer]

Well, if Taylor Field bites, then why don't you just build the new stadium in Saskatoon and move the team there? ;)

[Innersoul1]

I am good friends with Wally Buono's daughter and son-in-law and was able to have a long discussion with him about league expansion, sustainability and stadia. It was very interesting. Here are some points he made from the perspective of a GM:

-While it would be nice to have an expanded league it is very important that the options are sustainable.

-The league is hesitant to move into a market where long-term sustainability is put into question. This is compounded by the situation this season in Ottawa.

-The league definitely has some markets that they wish to explore: Halifax and Quebec City specifically.

-Unfortunately, these markets are contigent on stadia. He said that if Halifax were to have got the Commonwealth games they would have likely gone forth with a CFL team.

-Despite the claims to fame in Edmonton, the field at Commonwealth is viewed as one of the WORST in the league, by far.

-Across the spectrum he views all of the stadia as good and acceptable for a league such as the CFL.

Interesting :tup:

[CCF]

Well, if Taylor Field bites, then why don't you just build the new stadium in Saskatoon and move the team there? ;)

Because the Riders belong in Regina....that's why!

[Innersoul1]

As for McMahon, I think that a MAJOR renovation would be suitable. I do agree with those of you who have suggested that it would be a fantastic site for a TOD but finding a suitable location for a new stadium might be tricky.

As much as I like the idea of sports (soccer, football, baseball) being played on natural surfaces I don't think that we have a climate that is suitable for the upkeep of natural turf. I do think that field turf is the way to go. The problem with Calgary's turf is that the lines are permanent and the field itself is not FIFA 4 star approved. A blank field turf with painted lines would lend itself better to mulitple sports such as soccer.

Here is what I think would be fantastic for McMahon:

-get rid of all bench seats.

-Expansion of the Concourse: As suggested widen the concourse and enclose it. It would be soooo nice to have some relief from the elements on those cold late fall days. Concourse expansion would include better food and drink service. The expansion of the concourse would include a councourse that wraps around the whole stadium according to the ideas set out below.

-South stadium Expansion: At the south end of the stadium I would like to see an expanded clubhouse. All dressing rooms should be moved to this location including the ones currently located in west side of the stadium. I think that the clubhouse should be 2-3 stories and hosue suitable dressing rooms, offices and workout facilities. Also a players lounge. Atop the club house would be endzone seating. Maybe 20 rows with a nice steep pitch to them for better viewing. Of course, the Jumbotron would be located above this area. The south stadium would include a concourse attatched to the main East and West concourses.

-North Expansion: Demolish the Red and white club and move the whole area forward to cover the grassy area. The purpose of this area was to accomodate concerts but we don't really have any so this area holds no purpose other than displaying cars. There should be 10-20 rows of seats down near field level. Behind those woud be the new red and white club. The new RWC would have a small patio area with outdoor seating. Above this area would be the formal restaraunt (indoor). However, I think that this area should be tiered. That way you could book a table and watch the whole game indoors. There would be lots of TV screens and all tables would have their own small flatscreen. (This would be similar to the clubhouse set up at the grandstand on the stampede grouds. However real half tables not the bar style that are there. This section could be open year round. Like a sports bar of sorts. From the ceiling large screens could come down, hockey games could be played during the winter.
The RWC should also be have a small concert venue of sorts. Maybe something that would accomodate 1000-2000 people. A state-of-the-art facility for concerts and private functions. This adds to the year round sustainability of the venue.

-Finally, I don't think that the cost of fully enclosing McMahon would be cheaper than building new. But I think that some kind of enclosure would be nice. I personally like the Hong Kong Stadium model. Pictures of my ideas can be found below:

http://www.lcsd.gov.hk/stadium/hks/graphics/intro-pic1.jpg
I like this roof and the seating at the end of the stadium would be similar to what I was thinking for the North side. Not so many rows, that way the RWC would still have prime views

http://www.venue.org/galleryphoto/1014601196HK_Stadium600.jpg
This is what I was thinking for the roof. It would give McMahon a modern feel to it. The Arch construction would be fairly simple with the concrete anchoring points. In the pictured application the roof is a material similar to that of the Talisman centre. An alternate material could be uses. Say aluminum? I also think that the roofing shoudl go lower to close in the ends.

http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/2521/image141copy1.jpg
another view

http://www.prucenter.com/images/terrace.jpg

Half moon tables like this, tiered are what I was thinking for the RWC. fours and eights would be nice. Upper level might have full sized tables with a limited stadium view but bolstered by video screens!

[Innersoul1]

On the other hand:

If the stadium were to go, maybe they could go the way of Arsenal's Highbury stadium which was replaced by the new Emerites Stadium. Condos!?

Before:
http://www.spiderstacy.com/photos/vendettas/3ven2002.jpg

After:
http://www.afunnyoldgame.com/wp-images/af/highbury.gif
http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/arsenal/images/Arsenal_05.jpg

Link to the sales site:
http://www.thestadium-highbury.com/

[craner]

[QUOTE=Innersoul1;3055372]As for McMahon, I think that a MAJOR renovation would be suitable. I do agree with those of you who have suggested that it would be a fantastic site for a TOD but finding a suitable location for a new stadium might be tricky.

As much as I like the idea of sports (soccer, football, baseball) being played on natural surfaces I don't think that we have a climate that is suitable for the upkeep of natural turf. I do think that field turf is the way to go. The problem with Calgary's turf is that the lines are permanent and the field itself is not FIFA 4 star approved. A blank field turf with painted lines would lend itself better to mulitple sports such as soccer.

Here is what I think would be fantastic for McMahon:

-get rid of all bench seats.

-Expansion of the Concourse: As suggested widen the concourse and enclose it. It would be soooo nice to have some relief from the elements on those cold late fall days. Concourse expansion would include better food and drink service. The expansion of the concourse would include a councourse that wraps around the whole stadium according to the ideas set out below.

-South stadium Expansion: At the south end of the stadium I would like to see an expanded clubhouse. All dressing rooms should be moved to this location including the ones currently located in west side of the stadium. I think that the clubhouse should be 2-3 stories and hosue suitable dressing rooms, offices and workout facilities. Also a players lounge. Atop the club house would be endzone seating. Maybe 20 rows with a nice steep pitch to them for better viewing. Of course, the Jumbotron would be located above this area. The south stadium would include a concourse attatched to the main East and West concourses.

-North Expansion: Demolish the Red and white club and move the whole area forward to cover the grassy area. The purpose of this area was to accomodate concerts but we don't really have any so this area holds no purpose other than displaying cars. There should be 10-20 rows of seats down near field level. Behind those woud be the new red and white club. The new RWC would have a small patio area with outdoor seating. Above this area would be the formal restaraunt (indoor). However, I think that this area should be tiered. That way you could book a table and watch the whole game indoors. There would be lots of TV screens and all tables would have their own small flatscreen. (This would be similar to the clubhouse set up at the grandstand on the stampede grouds. However real half tables not the bar style that are there. This section could be open year round. Like a sports bar of sorts. From the ceiling large screens could come down, hockey games could be played during the winter.
The RWC should also be have a small concert venue of sorts. Maybe something that would accomodate 1000-2000 people. A state-of-the-art facility for concerts and private functions. This adds to the year round sustainability of the venue.

-Finally, I don't think that the cost of fully enclosing McMahon would be cheaper than building new. But I think that some kind of enclosure would be nice.

Some (I think all of them) great ideas for the old stadium I really like here.:previous:
I get excited just thinking of it - good thoughts. I hope at least some of them can become reality.:tup:

[Distill3d]

go big or go home. this is what calgary should do for the stadium:

University of Phoenix Stadium
http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/ArizonaCardinals/newaerialu.jpg
http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/ArizonaCardinals/newfront.jpg
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/0811/nfl_a_cardinalsstadium_195.jpg
http://www.ifgroup.cc/portfolio/assets/projects/arizona_stadium.jpg
http://www.visitphoenix.com/assets/whatsnew/cardinal_sta_hi.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/phoenix/1/0/E/Z/1/cardinalsstadium06.jpg
http://www.azcardinals.com/nm_files/Image/misc/budrelease.jpg

[Innersoul1]

[QUOTE][I]

Some (I think all of them) great ideas for the old stadium I really like here.:previous:
I get excited just thinking of it - good thoughts. I hope at least some of them can become reality.:tup:

Thanks man!


As much as I like the University of Pheonix stadium I don't think that we can justify something that epic in Calgary.

[Distill3d]

As much as I like the University of Pheonix stadium I don't think that we can justify something that epic in Calgary.

there's probably still people who cannot possibly justify something as epic the Saddledome. which is a symbol of the last boom Calgary had.

The city does need another monumental sports facility, and we all agree to some degree or another that McMahon could use some improvements. so instead of sinking money into more reno's why not commision a new one? something massive to put all the other CFL and possibly even some NFL stadiums to shame.

[Innersoul1]

Fair enough, but lets talk numbers here.

Currently, the capacity of McMahon is 35,000. This season has been mediocre in terms of attendance. I would rather see the Stamps playing in a stadium that is packed or close to, with a few empty seats. I hate watching Lions, Eskimo and Argonaut games where there are soooo many empty seats.

To create a building like the one you are envisioning the city and organization would need to justify the spending. I don't think that we need something that extravagant.

If we were to build a new stadium we need the following:

A) A stadium with a natural surface
B) A stadium that can accomodate an athletics track.
C) Possible a muti-sport venue (soccer, football, baseball, track & field, Hockey)

If the city were to create a venue that could accomodate all of the above there may be some support. The problem with most stadia with tracks is that the sight lines are bad. I hate that.


What kind of capacity are you thinking for this stadium? What do you see it being used for?

[Innersoul1]

I forgot basketball

[Arch26]

there's probably still people who cannot possibly justify something as epic the Saddledome. which is a symbol of the last boom Calgary had.

The city does need another monumental sports facility, and we all agree to some degree or another that McMahon could use some improvements. so instead of sinking money into more reno's why not commision a new one? something massive to put all the other CFL and possibly even some NFL stadiums to shame.

Nah. I don't think many people feel that the Saddledome is too "epic" for Calgary. For one, as it stands now, it holds about half as many people as McMahon, and there is no problem filling a building with that kind of capacity in a city like Calgary. And hockey is a popular sport--a popularity which is generally not shared among "stadium" sports such as baseball, football, soccer, and university athletics (not in Canada, that is). That said, I definitely agree McMahon needs some work and it could definitely stand more capacity... but to justify the expenditure of ambitious fields like the one in Phoenix? I don't buy it.

[Boris2k7]

Personally, I like McMahon and where it is. It could use some major improvements to modernize it, but otherwise it adds an activity node to the CTrain lines and serves both the University and the City well.

Of course, the decision to move would depend on who wants to build a new stadium, the business needs of the Stampeders and possibly other teams/events who would want to share the space, and the availability of land for such a decision.

Now, a note here, I haven't read this thread through. I've skimmed only a little so points will be repeated.

In terms of urban planning:


#1 Needs to be transit oriented. We have 2 current lines (SC-NW and NE-W) and 2 more planned (SE and NC). That doesn't leave many options.

- knock down McMahon and rebuild bigger, better, and closer to Banff Trail station. The University and Stamps likely still end up sharing the stadium.
- build in the NE, out near the airport. Location isn't great but no problems with noise.
- build on the SE line, likely near the Central Industrial Area. I've alluded to this before in one of my planning reports, but there is a spot which we designated transportation central (the convergence of Ogden Road, Blackfoot trail, multiple freight spurs and the SE line) which is undesirable for residential or commercial development. It would be only 5 minutes from downtown and if the LRT lines were planned correctly, you would be able to take a direct train from anywhere in Calgary. That would be a HUGE asset.
- the last option of course is to build it in empty farmland at the end of any of the lines, but that would be terrible.


#2 Needs to be multi-purpose.

- See options listed in this thread and the consequences of each of them. But the main point is that we need facilities that operate year-round and can draw big crowds, so as to be more viable. Otherwise, nobody is going to want to spend the big bucks building this thing. Having a multi-use facility would also increase of the value of surrounding communities, and help drive development as such.


#3 Needs to be a landmark

- A stadium or arena is necessarily a public space, even if it is privately owned (a contradictory statement, I know). People interact and find joy in it. Not only that, but they are places where the city is put on display. People from around the nation and possibly around the world will scrutinize a city based on its public facilities.


#4 Needs to be green

- In a city where sustainability is becoming an issue, sporting facilities of course need to be at the forefront. The stadium should conform to the highest standards of design as possible. It should showcase Calgary's technology and our commitment to eco-friendliness. Not only would green technology improve our image as a city, it would likely save the owners a ton of money over the period in which the stadium is in operation.


#5 Needs to be modifiable

- So that we don't need to build another stadium if our sporting teams become more popular
- On the other hand, if the sports become less popular, conversions could be made. In an event where the stadium is abandoned, adapt it to a new use! Long-term planning is essential.

[Arch26]

#4 Needs to be green

Major infrastructure does not need to be green. It needs to be sustainable, which is a fundamentally different concept (and people confuse the terms way too much). To be green is relatively simple with today's technology, and while it might earn you brownie points and some superficial recognition, it is not nearly as impactful as true sustainability. I also think it's fundamentally more difficult (and by extension, more important) to build something generally representative of excess like a sporting facility sustainability.

*End Rant

[Boris2k7]

Major infrastructure does not need to be green. It needs to be sustainable, which is a fundamentally different concept (and people confuse the terms way too much). To be green is relatively simple with today's technology, and while it might earn you brownie points and some superficial recognition, it is not nearly as impactful as true sustainability. I also think it's fundamentally more difficult (and by extension, more important) to build something generally representative of excess like a sporting facility sustainability.

*End Rant

That is very true, and thank you for correcting me. Seems that one or two things from my studies had escaped me. Sustainability goes beyond just technological ("green") solutions, though I think they are part of the overall equation. Strange, as it seems I've ranted about the same thing before. It is one of the reasons why some builders are turning away from LEED to their own Built Green formula... they don't want to be sustainable, it costs them too much and simply being "green" is cheaper.

[Distill3d]

In terms of urban planning:


#1 Needs to be transit oriented. We have 2 current lines (SC-NW and NE-W) and 2 more planned (SE and NC). That doesn't leave many options.

- knock down McMahon and rebuild bigger, better, and closer to Banff Trail station. The University and Stamps likely still end up sharing the stadium.
- build in the NE, out near the airport. Location isn't great but no problems with noise.
- build on the SE line, likely near the Central Industrial Area. I've alluded to this before in one of my planning reports, but there is a spot which we designated transportation central (the convergence of Ogden Road, Blackfoot trail, multiple freight spurs and the SE line) which is undesirable for residential or commercial development. It would be only 5 minutes from downtown and if the LRT lines were planned correctly, you would be able to take a direct train from anywhere in Calgary. That would be a HUGE asset.
- the last option of course is to build it in empty farmland at the end of any of the lines, but that would be terrible.

interesting options. however, if i were planning it, i would have a new stadium closer to the Stampede Grounds. i've always thought if a new stadium was going to be built to replace McMahon, it should be closer to the core so it would have easier access to LRT. mainly as reasoning to curb drunk driving, but, also to have all the major league sports venues in the same area.

#2 Needs to be multi-purpose.

- See options listed in this thread and the consequences of each of them. But the main point is that we need facilities that operate year-round and can draw big crowds, so as to be more viable. Otherwise, nobody is going to want to spend the big bucks building this thing. Having a multi-use facility would also increase of the value of surrounding communities, and help drive development as such.

BEST POINT EVER!!! a new version of McMahon can't just host football (on all levels). a big stadiums, the likes of Commonwealth or BC Place, attract larger crowds for concerts. i for one am more likely to shell out $250/ticket to see the Eagles do a 200th farewell tour in an outdoor venue then i am an indoor venue.

also a new stadium needs to host Soccer and other events. if it is a covered stadium, convention space (not that calgary is running out on that anytime soon).


#3 Needs to be a landmark

- A stadium or arena is necessarily a public space, even if it is privately owned (a contradictory statement, I know). People interact and find joy in it. Not only that, but they are places where the city is put on display. People from around the nation and possibly around the world will scrutinize a city based on its public facilities.


this goes without saying...


#4 Needs to be green

- In a city where sustainability is becoming an issue, sporting facilities of course need to be at the forefront. The stadium should conform to the highest standards of design as possible. It should showcase Calgary's technology and our commitment to eco-friendliness. Not only would green technology improve our image as a city, it would likely save the owners a ton of money over the period in which the stadium is in operation.

if we're going to lead the world in being "green" why not have a "green" stadium.

[Boris2k7]

interesting options. however, if i were planning it, i would have a new stadium closer to the Stampede Grounds. i've always thought if a new stadium was going to be built to replace McMahon, it should be closer to the core so it would have easier access to LRT. mainly as reasoning to curb drunk driving, but, also to have all the major league sports venues in the same area.

The Central Industrial Land is actually quite close to the Stampede Grounds. It's just south of Alyth/Bonnybrook, seperated from the Grounds by Ramsay and the Elbow river. In the study that our team (including ProudlyCanadian and I) did, we had a spur from the South-Central LRT to the North Central line, that converged with the South-East LRT line. It was intended as an alternative routing option for trains, especially so we could get special cars that only ran as shuttles to and from the airport (and other visionary stuff). However, if you put a stadium there you would get the transit package for events. Although, as far as I know, to get to the West-NE line, you would have to hop on either of the other two lines and go either north to one of the stations near the zoo, or head towards the downtown and switch there. That part needed some more work in the end, sortof an unfinished product.

EDIT: Okay, I made a quick mock-up. It doesn't do justice to our study, but it's quick...

The location would also be great for a new hospital *wink win* *nudge nudge*

DOUBLE EDIT:

D'oh! I forgot to include the linkage of the North-Central line into 7th Avenue, and the South-spur to that line, which would complete the circuit.

Okay, let's try this again:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7362/stadiumkd7.gif

There are advantages of course to having so much infrastructure in one place. Aside from the aforementioned routing that is. That would be a huge dump of municipal, provincial, and private funding in one place, particularly if we got a hospital and stadium close to one another, and on top of all these LRT lines (both at grade, above grade, and below grade). There would also be over 10000 new residents right near the stadium... and potentially redevelopable land to the south, which could add easily another quarter million people (which wast the focus of our study, this was only a small area in the whole project that got glossed over). The point is that this area has enormous opportunities, moreso than any other area in Calgary. The amount of land you could redevelop, the amount of people you could add, the scale of investment and return, makes anything we have going on right now pale in comparison. It would be a huge coup for the Stampeders to get in early with a new stadium.

[The Geographer]

there's probably still people who cannot possibly justify something as epic the Saddledome. which is a symbol of the last boom Calgary had.

The city does need another monumental sports facility, and we all agree to some degree or another that McMahon could use some improvements. so instead of sinking money into more reno's why not commision a new one? something massive to put all the other CFL and possibly even some NFL stadiums to shame.

Because not enough people care about football. Spend the money on kids sports... or hell, piano lessons. And yes I know, "a bigger football stadium would get more concerts!" But how many more concerts? Three or four big ones a year? Spend public money on a massive stadium to attract some more concerts? Forget it. If we hosted the Commonwealth Games, then I might change my opinion.

[Arch26]

BEST POINT EVER!!! a new version of McMahon can't just host football (on all levels). a big stadiums, the likes of Commonwealth or BC Place, attract larger crowds for concerts. i for one am more likely to shell out $250/ticket to see the Eagles do a 200th farewell tour in an outdoor venue then i am an indoor venue.

BC Place almost NEVER (perhaps actually never) has concerts. This is in large part due to the God-awful acoustics. I think one of the only reasons Vancouver can sustain something the size of BC Place is becasue they have most of their large trade shows in it. Calgary has them in the Round-Up Centre for the most part, so it's a moot point.

[ScottFromCalgary]

That Hong Kong stadium kinda reminds me of Seattle's Qwest Field.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t279/scottr49/seahawks_stadium.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t279/scottr49/AAGO106Seahawks-Stadium-Seattle-Pos.jpg

[The Geographer]

While I agree that American uber-stadiums are sights to behold, people here seem to be ignoring the truth about Canadian culture: we do not share the same sporting habits as Americans. Different things are popular here, and it isn't a case of "if you build it they will come". Qwest in Seattle may look nice, but it would look a lot lamer if it were only 1/3 full. Not to pick on you Scott, I am just using your picture as to illustrate my point.

People here generally like hockey, and thus Canadian cities are better off focusing on their arenas. In Calgary's case, for the price of a new stadium (Lyle Oberg Place? It could go along nicely with the Bud McCaig Tower of Irony and the Ralph Klein Campus of Book Learnin'.) one could probably by a half dozen new junior sports hockey arenas, which are in dire need. Yes yes, I am like a broken record, but seriously people, we could just end up with Big O junior.

[frinkprof]

I'm a big sports fan so while a great new stadium would be awesome, realistically, McMahon is fine with some renos for now. What Calgary should do is come up with a grand scheme for new or improved sporting facilities (large stadium, perhaps a new medium-sized facility, smaller arenas) as part of a bid for the Commonwealth Games, Pan-Am Games, or even the Canada Games. Not to start a whole other debate here, but I think Calgary could definitely host another Winter Olympics (removed enough from the Vancouver games of course). If Calgary were to host such an event, a lot of people win. Professional sports win, amateur and local sports win, and the economy wins.

Of course, the principles Boris listed should be kept in mind. If in that case McMahon's replacement is in another location, then Josh's idea of the U of C building a TOD student village there can be implemented.

I didn't mention the Saddledome above of course, since a new arena for the Flames is a lot more realistic and will happen in the next 15 years.

[The Geographer]

It would be nice to have the Olympics again, but the whole process is very political. South Korea keeps getting snubbed and will probably have to be placated. I imagine even the Americans and European would have a better chance after Sochi, Russia and a Korean Olympics. Of course, Canadian cities are always high on those quality of life thingies and multiculturalism doodads and that is always a bonus for the Olympic-minded.

[ibz]

McMahon is about the perfect sized stadium for Calgary. All's it needs is some $$$ to bring it into the 21 century and you'd be rockin.

[bendecido]

BC Place almost NEVER (perhaps actually never) has concerts. This is in large part due to the God-awful acoustics. I think one of the only reasons Vancouver can sustain something the size of BC Place is becasue they have most of their large trade shows in it. Calgary has them in the Round-Up Centre for the most part, so it's a moot point.

Not true. The Who played there back in 1989. I'm not sure who else has played, but I do remember that one.

[Arch26]

Not true. The Who played there back in 1989. I'm not sure who else has played, but I do remember that one.

Yeah, there's a concert once every 5 years. Negligible. And actually, stadium concerts are becoming quite rare in North America as many artists are turning to smaller, more intimate venues with better acoustics anyway. My point was just that, having a larger stadium like BC Place does not mean that the city will attract more large concerts.

[The Geographer]

Ya, I can't see what is so great about a stadium concert vs. an arena concert, aside from the potential ability to draw 80s mega-bands that demand 50,000 person audiences.

[Distill3d]

Not true. The Who played there back in 1989. I'm not sure who else has played, but I do remember that one.

oddly, i remember this event too. but thats a sour topic amongst my family...


and yes, BC Place gets more concerts then McMahon does. but thats simply because McMahon can't host concerts because of all the residences built well after the stadium was finished. my mom was actually fortuneate enough to be at one of the last concerts at McMahon (The Eagles in the summer of 1978...The Hotel California Tour). i think (correct me if i'm wrong) the last concert at McMahon was Lilith Fair in 1998ish...

[Arch26]

oddly, i remember this event too. but thats a sour topic amongst my family...


and yes, BC Place gets more concerts then McMahon does. but thats simply because McMahon can't host concerts because of all the residences built well after the stadium was finished. my mom was actually fortuneate enough to be at one of the last concerts at McMahon (The Eagles in the summer of 1978...The Hotel California Tour). i think (correct me if i'm wrong) the last concert at McMahon was Lilith Fair in 1998ish...

Actually, now that you mention it, I think there are now noise bylaw restrictions preventing BC Place from having concerts too. Back in '89 when there was no residential in there, it was fine, but not now. The roof of that thing is not especially soundproof.

[ScottFromCalgary]

While I agree that American uber-stadiums are sights to behold, people here seem to be ignoring the truth about Canadian culture: we do not share the same sporting habits as Americans. Different things are popular here, and it isn't a case of "if you build it they will come". Qwest in Seattle may look nice, but it would look a lot lamer if it were only 1/3 full. Not to pick on you Scott, I am just using your picture as to illustrate my point.

People here generally like hockey, and thus Canadian cities are better off focusing on their arenas. In Calgary's case, for the price of a new stadium (Lyle Oberg Place? It could go along nicely with the Bud McCaig Tower of Irony and the Ralph Klein Campus of Book Learnin'.) one could probably by a half dozen new junior sports hockey arenas, which are in dire need. Yes yes, I am like a broken record, but seriously people, we could just end up with Big O junior.

I'm certainly not advocating for a 70,000 seat stadium in Calgary. Just posting some pictures of a cool stadium.

[EastVanMark]

Actually, now that you mention it, I think there are now noise bylaw restrictions preventing BC Place from having concerts too. Back in '89 when there was no residential in there, it was fine, but not now. The roof of that thing is not especially soundproof.

There are no noise bylaw restrictions nor have their ever been at BC Place. (The Rolling Stones played BC Place under a year ago). The main reason that their aren't more concerts at BC Place are as follows 1) horrible acoustics, 2) and most importantly: there are very few bands around anymore that can sell enough tickets to play in a venue of that size.

[Arch26]

There are no noise bylaw restrictions nor have their ever been at BC Place. (The Rolling Stones played BC Place under a year ago). The main reason that their aren't more concerts at BC Place are as follows 1) horrible acoustics, 2) and most importantly: there are very few bands around anymore that can sell enough tickets to play in a venue of that size.

Thanks for the correction. I wasn't sure. The acoustics really are awful. I can't even stand going to trade shows there. Half the time you can't even hear the person standing next to you.

[The Geographer]

I'm certainly not advocating for a 70,000 seat stadium in Calgary. Just posting some pictures of a cool stadium.

I know, that is why I said I wasn't picking on you. :cheers:

[Distill3d]

There are no noise bylaw restrictions nor have their ever been at BC Place. (The Rolling Stones played BC Place under a year ago). The main reason that their aren't more concerts at BC Place are as follows 1) horrible acoustics, 2) and most importantly: there are very few bands around anymore that can sell enough tickets to play in a venue of that size.

not to mention the overwhleming number of other venues in the city to play (Princess Elizabeth, Commodore Ballroom, GM Place, Pacific Colleseum....off the top of my head)

[Arch26]

not to mention the overwhleming number of other venues in the city to play (Princess Elizabeth, Commodore Ballroom, GM Place, Pacific Colleseum....off the top of my head)

You mean "Queen Elizabeth" right? ;)

[Distill3d]

You mean "Queen Elizabeth" right? ;)

errm. thats right, it did used to be the Princes Elizabeth though...or thats my story and i'm sticking to it. lol

[craner]

Fair enough, but lets talk numbers here.

Currently, the capacity of McMahon is 35,000. This season has been mediocre in terms of attendance. I would rather see the Stamps playing in a stadium that is packed or close to, with a few empty seats. I hate watching Lions, Eskimo and Argonaut games where there are soooo many empty seats.

To create a building like the one you are envisioning the city and organization would need to justify the spending. I don't think that we need something that extravagant.

If we were to build a new stadium we need the following:

A) A stadium with a natural surface
B) A stadium that can accomodate an athletics track.
C) Possible a muti-sport venue (soccer, football, baseball, track & field, Hockey)

If the city were to create a venue that could accomodate all of the above there may be some support. The problem with most stadia with tracks is that the sight lines are bad. I hate that.


What kind of capacity are you thinking for this stadium? What do you see it being used for?

I agree with the capacity comment however I think the field turf at McMahon now is the way to go. I've been on it and it's beautiful - better than natural grass - and more versatile, not to mention less maintenance. Also no track please - it distances the crowd from the play feild.


ryanE
Thats what she said Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Edm
Posts: 1,538


McMahon is about the perfect sized stadium for Calgary. All's it needs is some $$$ to bring it into the 21 century and you'd be rockin.

This about sums up my thoughts perfectly.:previous:

[Innersoul1]

I agree with the capacity comment however I think the field turf at McMahon now is the way to go. I've been on it and it's beautiful - better than natural grass - and more versatile, not to mention less maintenance. Also no track please - it distances the crowd from the play feild.


Craner, check out post 55 in this thread. There I basically outlined the type of Renos I think that McMahon needs. I absolutely agreee with you. I love Field turf played on it for 3 years in Victoria.

The point that I have been wanting to make is that I feel that while Calgary is a city of one million, what we need is not an epic stadium. Instead, we need a diversity of HIGH QUALITY facilities. I would love to see McMahon have proper renos. We need a quality track & field facility. We need a sweet baseball diamond. What I think this city REALLY needs is a FANTASTIC mid-sized soccer venue with a GRASS field.

[The Geographer]

What I think this city REALLY needs is a FANTASTIC mid-sized soccer venue with a GRASS field.

I agree with this. When you say mid-sized, do you mean in the 10,000 seat range?

[Jay in Cowtown]

In my opinion... tear out all the benches and add seats, build a new 4 storey office/dressing room/ luxury suits building connecting stands @ south end with a new scoreboard LCD screen up above. Rip out the Volunteer Center and add 10 - 15 000 seats with 2 storeys of luxury suits on the north endzone. Expand concourse area with better concessions and shitters.

You'd have a 45 - 50 000 seat stadium that wouldn't be an embarrassment and would probably sellout half the regular season games.

[Innersoul1]

I agree with this. When you say mid-sized, do you mean in the 10,000 seat range?


You've got it!!! with short-term expandability to 15,000 and longterm to 20,000.

Sorry I am in a bit of a rush here are some venue examples:

http://www.westga.edu/~stadium/images/angle1_lg.jpg

This on is OK 10,000 seats dressing roooms I think that boxes are an important feature as it gets the corporate community involved.

http://www.xpday.net/html/Fujifilm.jpg

http://stijn.linearecta.be/images/stadions/Breda_00.jpg

http://koopdietopspelers.nl/files/Afbeeldingen/Stadions/NAC.jpg

http://www.rodaworld.limboo.com/stadions/breda/006.jpg

The Above stadium is in Breda Holland. As you can see it is very nice and has a total capacity of 17,000 and was built for 15 million USD. The stands are very steep which makes for an intimate feel. If the stands on the sides of the arena were constructed it would make for a great stadium for Calgary. The End stands could be built at a later date.

[Lee_Haber8]

Any musings on Calgary trying to get a soccer team or on a soccer-specific stadium?

[Distill3d]

Any musings on Calgary trying to get a soccer team or on a soccer-specific stadium?

we may get a team called Calgary United FC that plays indoor soccer. they did play an exhibition game in march at the Corral. haven't heard much else since the game though.

[bendecido]

Can someone explain to me why soccer teams often have FC in their name? Isn't Toronto also FC?

[Riise]

You've got it!!! with short-term expandability to 15,000 and longterm to 20,000.

Personally, I think 7,000 is the perfect capacity for Calgary right now. I'm a big fan of Closed Square Stadiums, they seem so right for footy! I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll just post the names of parks Calgary should model their's after rather than pictures: Nene Park, SAS Arena, and Shrewsbury Town's New Park. Versions of these that have a base capacity 10,000 should suffice.

Here's some links:

Nene Park: Link 1 (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/park/yfh45/rushden.htm)
SAS Arena: Link 1 (http://www.stadiumguide.com/sasarena.htm) and Link 2 (http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/herning_sas.shtml)
Shrewsbury Town's New Park: Link 1 (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/park/yfh45/shrewsbury_town.htm)

Any musings on Calgary trying to get a soccer team or on a soccer-specific stadium?

I keep hearing ramblings about us and Edmonton getting a PDL club. I think that is the perfect place to start. If other towns in Alberta and B.C. got a PDL club and Calgary and Edmonton became home to a couple we'd have ourselves the start of a regional league. It would pave the way for a professional and semi-pro domestic league.

[Riise]

Can someone explain to me why soccer teams often have FC in their name? Isn't Toronto also FC?

They are keeping it real! :cool: Just because everyone else is silly enough to call it soccer doesn't mean they have to aswell.

[frinkprof]

Soccer sucks. I just can't watch two teams consistently play 90 minutes to a 0-0 tie.

That aside, I know some people are fanatical about it, and it is a cultural thing. I'm sure it would draw in the right circumstances.

Tying this in to the original topic, I don't think McMahon would do soccer justice in this market.

[ScottFromCalgary]

^Agreed. McMahon wouldn't even be 1/4 full for a soccer game.

[Riise]

That aside, I know some people are fanatical about it, and it is a cultural thing...

Tying this in to the original topic, I don't think McMahon would do soccer justice in this market.

After watching the Mustangs play in McMahon I can confirm your statement, it was cavernous and with the crown on the field, slightly humorous too. In regards to the cultural thing, I don't think it's more cultural tradition than personal taste. I think you'd be surprised to see how many people there are in England who don't actually like footy.