[lubicon]

Maybe if the main road through Tuscany wasn't the size of a divided four lane freeway people wouldn't be so inclined to speed down the hills.

No shit.

I live in Tuscany (sorry) and am amazed at the stupididy of some of the planning that goes on in some of these new communities. In the example given (speeding past the school), both the new public school and the new seperate school (under construction) are built along 2 of the major roads in the community, including one road that is the major route in/out of the community. What the hell do people expect??? You build a school full of little kids right on a major road and then are upset by the volume of traffic on the road and how it is unsafe for the kids. For crying out loud, if people are concerned about their children's safety why didn't they say something BEFORE the school was built. Build the damn thing on a quieter road.

On the topic of recreational facilities, I have to agree. Take hockey for example. Tuscany is lumped in with Royal Oak, Rocky Ridge, Citadel, and Valley Ridge and we are in the Bow River Hockey Association. By my count there are about 40-50 hockey teams in this association and we have ONE ice sheet for our use and this has to be shared with the figure skaters and ringette too. There is no way the kids are getting a decent amount of ice time when you have that many people using the facility. Other areas of town are in the same boat.

[Boris2k7]

Bronconnier pledges $300M to build facilities
Recreation centres to benefit in next 10 years
Kim Guttormson, Calgary Herald
Published: Friday, September 28, 2007

Dave Bronconnier wants to spend more than $300 million on recreation centres over the next decade, the second time in as many weeks he's dipped into provincial infrastructure dollars to back a campaign promise.

If re-elected, Bronconnier said he will ask city council to endorse a plan that includes funding three regional recreation centres, five additional ice rinks and four tournament-standard soccer fields.

All projects would use the city money to leverage funds from other levels of government, although some projects already have matching grants lined up.

"It's a long-overdue investment," Bronconnier told a crowd Thursday at a breakfast honouring sports in the city.

The promise brought cheers from community groups that have been working on facility plans but not had funding, and jeers from some concerned Bronconnier is skirting city council by making promises that still need approval.

The proposed $301.5 million -- which includes $70 million for new regional facilities in the northeast, northwest and deep south -- would come from the $3.3 billion the provincial government will return to the city for infrastructure over the next 10 years.

Last week, Bronconnier committed $936 million over five years to build the west leg of the LRT, extend existing lines further into the northeast and northwest, and begin planning for a subway below 8th Avenue downtown and the connection to a future southeast line.

With more than $1.2 billion now dedicated, at least in Bronconnier's future plans, some are questioning whether he's overstepping.

"He's jumping the gun," said Andre Chabot, who is running for re-election in Ward 10. "I thought we had a process to deal with this very issue.

"We have a process to establish priorities. Why don't I put out my wish list?"

Chabot noted that neither the recreation nor transit announcements directly benefit Ward 10.

Another candidate in the east-side ward, Nargis Dossa, echoed Chabot's concerns, saying Bronconnier should be consulting council and the community.

But Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart, who has been acclaimed in Ward 13, said Calgarians need to hear Bronconnier's vision.

"He's putting his ideas out there, and I'd be disappointed if he didn't do it," she said. "I want to know what his priorities are. But it's not Bronco's money; all that requires approval by council."

Bronconnier acknowledged that during his speech -- which was attended by nine incumbent aldermen and at least two people hoping to win a seat on council.

Any capital funds would have to be approved during the November budget talks.

Many have criticized council's focus on roads and transportation over the past term. Mayoral hopeful Sandy Jenkins said Bronconnier's pledge is too little, too late.

"What did he do for six years for rec centres?" he said. "I don't think it's a tradeoff, roads instead of recreation, roads instead of affordable housing.

"We need all those things."

Jenkins said he would have borrowed money to build the facilities.

Bronconnier said with rapid growth and limited money -- at least until the province ponied up the $3.3 billion -- priorities had to be set. A hockey arena has a hard time competing with a fire station or water treatment plant, he added.

Under his proposal, the city would create a $40-million reserve fund to fix up existing facilities. In addition to $70 million to each of the regional centres, $9.5 million would be spent on an ice rink at the Family Leisure Centre, $14 million for two new ice rinks at South Fish Creek recreation centre and $20 million to double the number of sheets of ice to four at the proposed facility at Canada Olympic Park.

As well, council will be asked to approve $8 million for an athletic park, including four soccer fields, in New Brighton.

kguttormson@theherald.canwest.com

Spending Priorities

Where Dave Bronconnier proposes spending $301.5 million on recreation in the next decade:

- $70 million -- toward each of three regional recreation facilities. Land has been set aside for the one in the northeast and securing funding has started. It could be ready for construction by mid-2009. Land is in place for the one in Seton, while the proposed northwest facility still needs a location.
- $40 million -- capital reserve fund to retrofit and upgrade existing rec facilities.
- $20 million -- partner with Calgary Olympic Development Association to build four ice surfaces at Canada Olympic Park.
- $14 million -- two ice rinks at South Fish Creek recreation centre.
- $8 million -- a new athletic park at New Brighton, with four tournament quality soccer fields.
- $9.5 million -- new ice rink at the Family Leisure Centre.

[Boris2k7]

Traffic congestion dogs residents
Bus routes to C-Train, parking top concerns
Suzanne Goldman, Calgary Herald
Published: Friday, September 28, 2007

Today, the Herald continues its series of ward profiles, which examine the candidates and explore the issues.

Today: Ward 2
Saturday: Ward 3

Traffic on Crowchild Trail is an ongoing issue for people in Ward 2.
Mikael Kjellstrom, Calgary Herald

- - -

Traffic woes that have plagued residents of Ward 2 for years continue to raise concerns -- heavy congestion, noise and parking shortages -- as voters prepare to hit the polls for the Oct. 15 election.

A massive project approved in 2005 is underway to widen Crowchild Trail from four to six lanes, construct two new interchanges, extend the LRT to Crowfoot Centre and install parking lots to handle nearly 1,350 vehicles.

But for now, the construction has been a source of frustration for residents, who face commuting delays and annoying detours.

With the LRT extension slated for completion in 2008, two years ahead of schedule, residents are beginning to worry about the lack of parking causing overflow into their neighbourhood streets -- a situation compounded by residents of illegal secondary suites snagging parking spaces.

"We are anticipating we will still be at least a couple hundred stalls short," said Donna Gee, president of the Arbour Lake Community Association.

"That's a concern -- how we're going to police the parking issue while still letting residents park in front of their own home? Not everyone has a garage, so people have to park on the street."

But even with the new C-Train station, some residents still find it impractical to use transit services that they say are inefficient and overcrowded. Often residents must take several buses just to get to a train station.

Aldermanic hopeful and former Toronto resident Biagio Magliocca, looking to unseat incumbent Gord Lowe, would like to see the city adopt express buses that would shuttle commuters directly to C-Train stations or downtown.

While Lowe said the issue should be addressed with shuttle service to LRT stops, he added there is a need for "east-west connectors across the ward to the airport and industrial zones" that would provide efficient transit for many residents employed there.

Aldermanic candidate and Ranchlands Community Association president Terry Avramenko is also pushing for connector routes to outlying areas and is anxious to see the LRT extended even further.

"I'd like to have a commitment of when they're going out to Stoney Trail -- if they had that yesterday, I'd be happy," he said.

Roads and transportation are the main focus of candidate Daniel Del Re's campaign. He's making his third consecutive attempt at defeating Lowe.

With new community developments like Sage Hill planned for the ward, residents will have to brace for further construction to facilitate an increasing population.

For families setting up in recently established communities like Sherwood, managing a lack of schools has prompted some parents to give false addresses to avoid having their kids bused far from home, said resident Kerri Kabeary.

She said she doesn't mind sending her two teenage children on longer school bus commutes, but is reluctant to put her six-year-old son through the same lengthy journey.

"There's no way . . . he's ever going to be able to go to school in that community," said Kabeary.

While Lowe agreed that schools are coming far too slowly and should be built as neighbourhoods are developed, he said that issue falls under the jurisdiction of school boards and is therefore difficult for council to tackle.

Although many residents maintain their neighbourhoods are friendly places to raise kids, keeping community streets safe while the ward undergoes such constant change has become increasingly difficult.

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Complaints of visible drug use, drug paraphernalia and grow ops are weighing heavy on the minds of some.

Kabeary, for example, said she had no idea there was an illegal grow op right next door until police came knocking about eight months ago.

In fact, 18 grow ops have been busted in northwest communities just this year, according to the Calgary Police Service. A total of 88 grow ops worth $54 million were shut down in the same time period across the city.

It's such a concern that some residents have approached Lowe and Magliocca about it -- both said there is a need for more policing in the area.

Cross-training bylaw officers to handle a range of work would free up police to focus on criminal activity, said Lowe.

He also said he supported city initiatives to increase police presence in the downtown, but cautioned council that there was a perception the move was being made at the expense of district communities.

"I need to be convinced that's not happening," said Lowe. "You can't forget the suburbs."

sgoldman@theherald.canwest.com


At a Glance: Ward 2

Candidates

- Terry Avramenko
Age: 49
Occupation: Self-employed
Marital status: Married, three children

- Daniel Del Re
Age: 44
Occupation: Machine operator
Marital status: Single

- Gord Lowe
Age: 68
Occupation: Served as alderman since 2001
Marital status: Married, four children

- Biagio Magliocca
Age: 42
Occupation: Airport developer
Marital status: Married, two children

Population: 77,687
Change since 2004: +3,291
Number of seniors (over 65): 6,336*
Number of children and youths: 21,368*
Number of occupied dwellings: 25,985
Home ownership: 22,719 (87.4 per cent)

Communities in ward: Arbour Lake, Citadel, Dalhousie, Edgemont, Hamptons, Hawkwood, Kincora, Ranchlands, Sage Hill, Sherwood, Symons Valley

Source: 2007 Civic Census

*Based on 2006 numbers (some ward boundaries have changed in 2007)

[lubicon]

Bronconnier pledges $300M to build facilities
Recreation centres to benefit in next 10 years
Kim Guttormson, Calgary Herald
Published: Friday, September 28, 2007


Where Dave Bronconnier proposes spending $301.5 million on recreation in the next decade:

- $70 million -- toward each of three regional recreation facilities. Land has been set aside for the one in the northeast and securing funding has started. It could be ready for construction by mid-2009. Land is in place for the one in Seton, while the proposed northwest facility still needs a location.- $40 million -- capital reserve fund to retrofit and upgrade existing rec facilities.
- $20 million -- partner with Calgary Olympic Development Association to build four ice surfaces at Canada Olympic Park.
- $14 million -- two ice rinks at South Fish Creek recreation centre.
- $8 million -- a new athletic park at New Brighton, with four tournament quality soccer fields.
- $9.5 million -- new ice rink at the Family Leisure Centre.

According to what Dale Hodges said, they are looking at land in the vicinity of 112 Ave NW, east of the Royal Oak Shopping Centre towards where the Dump is.

[mersar]

According to what Dale Hodges said, they are looking at land in the vicinity of 112 Ave NW, east of the Royal Oak Shopping Centre towards where the Dump is.

That makes sense, its right by the playing fields they built on the old gravel pit site.

[Boris2k7]

Ward 8 candidate restricts campaign contributions
Calgary Herald
Published: Monday, October 01, 2007

An aldermanic candidate in Ward 8 says she won't accept donations from unions, developers or other large organizations during the election campaign.

Lindsay Luhnau, who is one of three candidates trying to unseat incumbent Madeleine King, said she wants to run an open and honest campaign.

"It just sets a really good example, especially when accountability has become such an issue in this election -- with Barry Erskine raising funds for this election, and I don't know what he's doing with them," she said, referring to Erskine's abrupt retirement from municipal politics in the days leading up to the campaign.

The former Ward 11 alderman has not said what he's doing with the money he raised for the campaign, though there are no rules related to how the cash is spent.

Luhnau said she's decided to be accountable to voters.

[Boris2k7]

Low-cost housing, crime top agenda
Paula Beauchamp, Calgary Herald
Published: Monday, October 01, 2007

Today, the Herald continues its series of ward profiles, which examine the candidates and explore the issues, with a look at Ward 4.

Tuesday: Ward 5

- - -

Ward 4 straddles the east-west divide in the city's north, but in many ways this collection of communities built mostly between the 1950s and 1980s is a microcosm of Calgary. That is, minus some of the growing pains being experienced by the newer communities.

Rosemont resident Kris Olsen says infrastructure problems are not as bad in the established communities of Ward 4, but property taxes are still rising, frustrating many residents.

"We've seen our house prices go through the roof, and we've seen our taxes go up," said the Rosemont Community Association president, "but we see most of the money for infrastructure going out of our area and into the burbs, to build overpasses in the outskirts."

A failed battle to retain the community's library and a successful campaign to save the Highwood rink are some of the small, but important, squabbles residents in the ward say they have been forced to fight.

Some, like Olsen, believe the city's obsession with megasized leisure centres is stripping communities of the smaller, local facilities that draw residents together.

"These are important things that make a community," Olsen said, adding Bob Hawkesworth, the ward's sitting alderman, has stepped in to help.

Hawkesworth, who was first elected alderman for the area in 1993, is this year seeking re-election for his sixth term.

In 2004, Hawkesworth was acclaimed.

This time, he will face off against student Alex Peterson and safety consultant Richard Evans on Oct. 15.

"Affordable housing is the No. 1 issue across Calgary, and that is something I'm focusing on," Hawkesworth said.

"I don't think Ward 4 is any different from the rest of the city in that sense."

Nevertheless, Hawkesworth said he will use his vote on council to ease the housing crunch citywide, should he be re-elected.

For Beddington Heights resident Michelle Marr, Hawkesworth's lead issue strikes a chord.

A single mother of two who also cares for a niece and nephew, Marr this year faced a rent hike of $275 a month, jumping to $1,200.

"I'm happy with almost everything in this community, but rents are a problem," she said.

Hawkesworth believes some relief could come in developing secondary suites in areas that already have R-2 zoning, leaving the R-1 conversion debate for another day.

"Let's get building solutions right now," he said.

Hawkesworth also wants to see more non-market housing built and rent supplements encouraged.

There is also a growing fear that accommodation in Ward 4 communities will become even more unaffordable in the near future, given the area's proximity to downtown and the abundance of work opportunities along Deerfoot Trail's eastern edge.

Peterson, who is running for election in Ward 4 because there was "no choice" last time, said crime was high on his agenda.

"There is increasing drug use and crime around here, and this is not an area you would expect to see this," he said.

Recent crimes include the fatal stabbing of a man in Huntington Hills, the theft of lottery tickets from the Beddington Towne Centre Mall and multiple break-ins.

For Beddington couple Ben and Phyllis Jensen, crime is a serious issue that has unfortunately struck close to home.

After their garage was broken into and $10,000 worth of property was stolen, a neighbour's home was targeted by thieves.

"It's a concern for us," Ben said.

Candidate Richard Evans, also a ward resident, lists traffic management as a focus of his aldermanic campaign.

Evans describes rush hour traffic through the ward as "nasty."

"We need (traffic) lights to be synchronized and something done with 14th Street. It's always busy," he said.

In the shadow of a pledge by Dave Bronconnier to push for a west leg of the LRT if re-elected mayor, Evans wants council to commission a cost-benefit analysis on a north-central LRT leg to service his ward.

The area is home to the city's first BRT, or bus rapid transport system. It runs along Centre Street and out west along Bow Trail.

But many residents complain they are packed onto buses like sardines and say they are annoyed that moving across town is virtually impossible without a car because all public transport is routed to the core.

Other traffic management issues concern the widening of Beddington Trail and Shaganappi Trail.

City infrastructure spokesman Dave Danchuk said residents' concerns over noise from the busy roads would be addressed by superior sound barriers along the roadways.

The original wooden sound walls installed by the area's developers years ago will be replaced by a thicker, more esthetically pleasing barrier, he said.

According to Olsen, residents suffer because so many Calgarians are forced to pass through Ward 4 on their way downtown.

He said city hall has spent a lot of money expanding roads further out, but has neglected those in Ward 4, such as 14th Street N.W. The result is a bottleneck with increasing volumes of commuter traffic.

"It's like the body of the snake is getting fatter, but the head is still a puny head," he said.

"All that means traffic backing up in our area."

pbeauchamp@theherald.canwest.com

Online Extras

CalgaryHerald.com

Visit our website for more civic election coverage, including more about Ward 4 and the opinions of the candidates running for alderman.


At a Glance: Ward 4

Candidates

- Richard Evans
Age: 35
Occupation: Self-employed safety consultant
Marital status: Married, two children

- Bob Hawkesworth
Age: 56
Occupation: Serving alderman
Marital status: Married

- Alex Peterson
Age: 20
Occupation: Information education student, SAIT
Marital status: Single

Ward 4 Profile
Population: 73,207
Change since 2004: (+103)
Number of seniors (over 65): 13,015*
Number of children and youths (under 20): 18,596*
Number of occupied dwellings: 27,497
Home ownership: 19,573 (71.18 per cent)

Communities in ward: Rosemont, Sandstone Valley, Thorncliffe, Queens Park Village, North Haven, MacEwan, Huntington Hills, Highwood, Highland Park, Hidden Valley, Greenview, Cambrian Heights, Beddington Heights.

Source: 2007 Civic Census

*Based on 2006 numbers (some ward boundaries have changed in 2007)

[KrisYYC]

Does anybody know much about Brian Pincott or Evonne Whelan who are canditates for Ward 11?

[KrisYYC]

Well I've found some stuff on the net about the Ward 11 candidates. The more I read/view the more I'm leaning towards Brian Pincott. His views are well said in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5zRQ6rvano

[Wooster]

Just curious if anyone knows how to find out voter turnout for each polling station within a ward from the 2004 election. Similarly, how would one find out the number of eligible voters within a community district?

[Zilla]

New website for the Inner City Coalition. They have surveyed the candidates on five issues. Some responses are up.

http://www.icccalgary.ca/F00_forum.html

[srperrycgy]

Does anybody know much about Brian Pincott or Evonne Whelan who are canditates for Ward 11?

I received a flyer in my mail for Whelan, but I'm in Ward 8. Someone screwed up with Canada Post there. :koko:

[Rise_of_the_West]

Alnoor was at the overpass to University Station today handing out flyers. Glad to see at least one candidate that is willing to talk with the ordinary citizens.

I'm still waiting for the candidates to accept my challenge for them to take transit during peak hours though...

[yads]

I know Whelan doesn't even live in Ward 11. She lives in Mount Royal, but didn't want to compete in Ward 8.

[Riise]

Alnoor was at the overpass to University Station today handing out flyers. Glad to see at least one candidate that is willing to talk with the ordinary citizens.

Damn it! I would have loved to talk to him about his transit-first strategy.

[You Need A Thneed]

Looking at all the mayoral candidates websites, I'm strongly getting the feeling that only Bronco has realistic visions for many of the issues. I'm starting to think he's the only one to vote for, whether I like his policies or not. Everyone else on the list just seems to me like they would be totally incompetent as a mayor.

In other news, in the Herald's Ward 5 article yesterday, the reporter talked to (and quoted in the article) my friend about what the issues in the ward are. However, my friend doesn't live in ward 5, nor was he in ward 5 when he was interviewed (he was at Prairie Winds Park). It's like the reporter had no idea where the ward boundries were, since it's listed in the article which community my friend lives in (Falconridge).

Not that the issues are much different for wards 3 and 5.

[mersar]

And not to mention that Bronco may have really sealed the deal if the province and school boards come to an agreement about the land swap that Bronco has supposedly engineered that they mentioned on the news tonight. The only other press any candidates had that made the news today was Alnoor having his head cut off of several dozen of his signs.

[Riise]

Looking at all the mayoral candidates websites, I'm strongly getting the feeling that only Bronco has realistic visions for many of the issues. I'm starting to think he's the only one to vote for, whether I like his policies or not. Everyone else on the list just seems to me like they would be totally incompetent as a mayor.

I'm not too sure about that. I've glanced over a few of them and I believe that Sandy Jenkins has realistic visions and good policies. However, I wish he had more of a presence. With that being said at this point I'm torn between Jenkins and Alnoor. Alnoor has some silly ideas but he also has some really great ones, for example: 12upa on new developments, 60/40 transit:road expenditure, and consideration for BRT. I also like how he called out Bronco on Sprawl:

Bronconnier has been repeatedly quoted as saying that sprawl does not exist in Calgary. How can he solve the problem when he does not even recognize that it exists?

[Riise]

And not to mention that Bronco may have really sealed the deal if the province and school boards come to an agreement about the land swap that Bronco has supposedly engineered that they mentioned on the news tonight. The only other press any candidates had that made the news today was Alnoor having his head cut off of several dozen of his signs.

Wow! It's taken him how long to get innovative?

[GoflamesGo]

I would love to hear about any candidate talk about the riddiclous (SP) royalty riview, since it would have such an impact on our city. I think its a huge issue.

[freeweed]

I would love to hear about any candidate talk about the riddiclous (SP) royalty riview, since it would have such an impact on our city. I think its a huge issue.

Alnoor is already expecting it. How else do you think his hallucinatory fantasies will come true? :haha:

Seriously though, the guy's a loon. Thankfully his campaign people have toned him down somewhat in the past week. He's no longer spouting entirely incorrect facts. Now he's solely focussed on "whatever Bronco does, I promise to do the opposite".

What kills me is that he's the only other candidate who gets ANY media attention. Surely there's at least one runner-up to Bronco who isn't completely off their rocker?? :koko:

[You Need A Thneed]

I'm not too sure about that. I've glanced over a few of them and I believe that Sandy Jenkins has realistic visions and good policies. However, I wish he had more of a presence. With that being said at this point I'm torn between Jenkins and Alnoor. Alnoor has some silly ideas but he also has some really great ones, for example: 12upa on new developments, 60/40 transit:road expenditure, and consideration for BRT. I also like how he called out Bronco on Sprawl:

Sandy Jenkins I think had the most realistic visions out of any of the alternative candidates, but I just don't think I can bring myself to vote for a male candidate named Sandy. The first couple of times I went to his site, and saw his picture, it surprised me - "Oh, it's a guy!":haha:

No, that wouldn't stop me from voting for him if a thought his policies were good.

[lubicon]

And not to mention that Bronco may have really sealed the deal if the province and school boards come to an agreement about the land swap that Bronco has supposedly engineered that they mentioned on the news tonight. The only other press any candidates had that made the news today was Alnoor having his head cut off of several dozen of his signs.

Is this similar to what Edmonton has started doing?? Great idea if so, but hardly original Dave.

[Zilla]

Another website with surveys and endorsements.

http://www.bettercalgary.ca/endorsements.php

A little surprised this thread isn't more lively. Is everyone over on Facebook? ;)

[Beltliner]

Have to say that if Super Dave's campaign manager hadn't answered my mail, chances are that I would be voting either for Sandy Dandy or for Crazy JZ. Sandy Dandy has at least credibly raised the Stephen Avenue Metro and campaign finance surpluses as issues, and I hope they tap him for some work on Plan It for his troubles; Crazy JZ earns points just for trying--he seems to be an earnest young whippersnapper with a bright future ahead of him. :P

Of Alnoob we shall not even speak.

[mersar]

Well I saw the interview that Global did with Sandy Jenkins tonight and had to try not to laugh. While he does have some good points, he comes across pretty poorly and some of his comments are just ridiculous (starting with his explanation for this week as to why the LRT wasn't tunneled originally). He also seemed to have a extreme dislike for the 6th avenue closure, and also seemed to get excited about being able to bring up how little the penalties are and how I gather he feels the city should have jacked them way up.

[freeweed]

He also seemed to have a extreme dislike for the 6th avenue closure, and also seemed to get excited about being able to bring up how little the penalties are and how I gather he feels the city should have jacked them way up.

People are still on about this???

Jeez.. it's been months and downtown traffic is flowing just fine. I remember even "the sky is perpetually falling" Global News tried so hard to show how bad traffic was as a result.. and after the first week of "well, things are moving pretty good actually", they just quietly dropped the story.

[Corndogger]

Have to say that if Super Dave's campaign manager hadn't answered my mail, chances are that I would be voting either for Sandy Dandy or for Crazy JZ. Sandy Dandy has at least credibly raised the Stephen Avenue Metro and campaign finance surpluses as issues, and I hope they tap him for some work on Plan It for his troubles; Crazy JZ earns points just for trying--he seems to be an earnest young whippersnapper with a bright future ahead of him. :P

Of Alnoob we shall not even speak.
I wish Jenkins would have ran for Alderman in Ward 7 instead of Mayor. If there is one person I want off Council more than any other it is Druh Ferrell. One more term of her micromanaging the city should pretty well screw us for decades.

I'd also like to see my Councilor gone in Ward 8 but given King's scary competition I might actually vote for her as the 'safe' alternative. By the way, does anyone know where John Mar is getting all of his campaign money from? He's got more signs up than the other three put together from what I can tell.

[Wooster]

By the way, does anyone know where John Mar is getting all of his campaign money from? He's got more signs up than the other three put together from what I can tell.

Daddy. Just like how he's got all his money his whole life. I think his campaign actually is an elaborate attempt by his father to finally get him off his payroll.

[freeweed]

If there is one person I want off Council more than any other it is Druh Ferrell.

Whoa, around here that's akin to swearing at the pope in a Catholic church. :haha:

[Corndogger]

Daddy. Just like how he's got all his money his whole life. I think his campaign actually is an elaborate attempt by his father to finally get him off his payroll.
Does his father own a company in Calgary?

[mersar]

His father is a fairly large real estate developer in Calgary from what I recall.

[Jimby]

Daddy. Just like how he's got all his money his whole life. I think his campaign actually is an elaborate attempt by his father to finally get him off his payroll.


His campaign literature says he is a real estate developer and a mining executive.
I think he is a one-trick NIMBY. I thought the Sunalta/Scarboro campaign against the John Howard Society was even worse the Crescent Heights battle against the temporary Brick homeless shelter for fear mongering and selfish me-firstism. :hell:

[Frenzy]

Which mayor best fits the vision for the west leg of the LRT?

[Wooster]

I went to the Mayoral debate at Mount Royal. Most of the candidates are entirely laughable. Why do they think they are possibly qualified to lead a city of a million and manage over a $2 Billion budget.

A 19 year old was the most articulate challenger. That is not saying much.

A joke.

[240glt]

^Alberta provincial politics is a joke.

Municipal politics is turning out to be 3 ring circus complete with clowns on stilts and a seal balancing a beach ball on its nose

[Corndogger]

I went to the Mayoral debate at Mount Royal. Most of the candidates are entirely laughable. Why do they think they are possibly qualified to lead a city of a million and manage over a $2 Billion budget.

A 19 year old was the most articulate challenger. That is not saying much.

A joke.

I just finished watching the news on Global and CTV and neither of them showed much. Nothing of JZ. Just how bad was Alnoor?

And did I hear right that this event started at 4:30 PM? It's bad enough we only have a 28 day official election campaign but to have just one debate with the candidates and then have it start at such an early time is beyond stupid. No wonder people are apathetic.

[mersar]

From what they said on the radio this morning it was a lot of fighting, and all but Bronco were trying to position themselves as the anti-Bronco. A lot of complaints over not just the time, but the length as well as there supposedly were lots of people still waiting to ask questions when they started the closing remarks.

[Wooster]

It was poorly moderated. The candidates went on and on, plus there were 9 of them, so naturally all of them had to answer at least once.

Alnoor was ok actually. He came off well, but read of prepared answers too much. He was the most anti-bronconnier.

[CorporateWhore]

I haven't had a chance to hear the man speak whatsoever, but one position of Sandy Jenkin's that I really do support is extending the west LRT to Mount Royal College. This school will only become more prominent in the future of the city...it only makes sense to have a solid plan to hook up the LRT to the school in some fashion.

[bigcanuck]

I haven't had a chance to hear the man speak whatsoever, but one position of Sandy Jenkin's that I really do support is extending the west LRT to Mount Royal College. This school will only become more prominent in the future of the city...it only makes sense to have a solid plan to hook up the LRT to the school in some fashion.

It's a good position but Sandy isn't the right 'salesman' to bring it forward. His tone when speaking is very negative and he's a very 'bitter' man. Most candidates are too negative in their Bronco bashing and they're coming across poorly. Don't even get me started on Harry Heck...

As much as municipal politics aims to dethrone the incumbent by discrediting him (or her), it's a poor tactic. Not that it really matters much in Calgary - you have to go back to the defeat of Ross Alger to find an election where a lesser-known defeated a public figure.

[Sir.Humphrey.Appleby]

Re-routing the West LRT to MRC I think is a non-starter. Once the train is there where will it go from there? Sandy Jenkins thinks the West LRT can go from downtown to MRC then back to 17th Ave SW to Westside. Seems to me he hasn't been looking at a map lately at the amount of residential neighborhoods that would need to be bisected by such a serpentine route.

MRC would best be served by a BRT running on the SW leg of the circle route stopping at Chinook, MRC, Westgate (future WLRT station) and Brentwood.

The West LRT goes up 17th Ave to support residential growth in the area, and to support a theoretical suburban employment centre at 17th Avenue and 69th Street that was lobbied out of existence during Bronconnier's time as Alderman for the area.

For those proponents of LRT to Mount Royal College - draw up a theoretical route - for now it is just an idea. Then we can talk. Maybe cross post to transit thread?

[frinkprof]

^If you dig through the Calgary Transit thread, you will find plenty of LRT to MRC discussion. Some it it is in the last few pages.

[Wooster]

why not a street car? 17th ave, 14th st, 33rd ave, into CFB west, terminate at MRC.

[Koolfire]

why not a street car? 17th ave, 14th st, 33rd ave, into CFB west, terminate at MRC.

Don't really see any advantage of a streetcar over a D60LFR BRT bus. :shrug:

[CorporateWhore]

why not a street car? 17th ave, 14th st, 33rd ave, into CFB west, terminate at MRC.

you'd have to line up street car after streetcar....not really sure they can handle that kind of volume. But i do like the idea of street cars circulating in the inner-city.

[yads]

Was anyone at the all candidates debate at Broken City last night?

[freeweed]

Comment I heard on Global last night as part of their footage of the MRC debate, Bronconnier to Alnoor:

"Are you planning on giving me a chance to respond, or do you just like to hear yourself talk?"

:jester:

Am I the only one who's getting a bit tired of this Americanish negative campaigning? Yeesh, tell us what YOU will do, not just what you find wrong with the current administration. What's next? Attack ads?

[The Chemist]

If I was in town to vote, I'd certainly be voting for Bronco. The only 'legitimate' candidate other than him is Alnoor, and I would NEVER vote for that sleazeball, so Bronco it is. He hasn't done a bad job and I'm glad he's comitted to building WLRT, so he'd be my choice.

[freeweed]

The city's unions are backing Alnoor, according to the Herald.

That officially makes up my mind. I mean, I know the guy's got several screws loose just based on what he says out loud, but when the unions like you, you're officially off the deep end.

I still fondly remember how NAFTA completely destroyed our healthcare system. Thanks for your ever-accurate vision, unions! :haha:

[Sir.Humphrey.Appleby]

To anyone that was at the Mayoral forum on Tuesday, turns out Sandy Jenkins did end up at the Weakerthans!
Jenkins weak for the Weakerthans
Mayoral candidate gets kicked out of concert

Katy Anderson
News Editor

October 11, 2007
Print this story
Mayoral hopeful Jenkins gets escorted out of the Weakerthans concert. (Click for larger image.) Mayoral hopeful Jenkins gets escorted out of the Weakerthans concert.
http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/~gauntlet/eg/eg2/20071011/jenkins_escorted-pagan_web.jpg
Credit: Daniel Pagan / the Gauntlet
A Mayoral candidate was caught sneaking into the Weakerthans concert at the MacEwan Hall Ballroom Tue., Oct. 9.

"[Jenkins] was informed when he arrived that he wasn't welcome to attend the show," said Backstage Support Services security supervisor Scott Jones. "He had an interview at the Gauntlet, and then afterwards he would be leaving the venue. What happened was when he finished at the Gauntlet he proceeded to enter the venue and tried to attend the concert, but he hadn't paid for it."

Jones said Students' Union event staff had approached BSS to keep an eye out for Jenkins, and if they found him to escort him out.

SU event staff at the event explained they were unable to comment because they were SU staff.

"He was removed from the concert," said SU food, beverage and events director Greg Stephenson. "That would be my only comment. We had justified cause. He was asked to leave."

The Gauntlet called Jenkins the next day to recall the chain of events.

"I was surprised it wasn't in the big MacEwan Hall, the big venue," said Jenkins. "I just assumed it would be in the big part. Even when I got to the second floor I was confused because it didn't seem like the Weakerthans. I talked to the promoter, I had his name from my sources because I knew it was sold out and I knew I was in a tough spot. He told me the band overdid their guest list and he was over capacity, so he couldn't let me in. So then I thought, 'okay, I'll just go to the Gauntlet as plan B, because Rob [my press manager] had booked me for the Calgary Sun editorial board this morning. I went to the elevator and it was locked off, so I went to the security guy and said I had an interview with the Gauntlet. He said 'I'll go check that out, and he went and talked to [news editor Katy Anderson]. [Anderson] said send him up, I know it wasn't the time we scheduled but it was the only time I had available."

Jenkins had an interview scheduled for 10 a.m. Wed., Oct. 10. He arrived at the Gauntlet office 8 p.m. Tue., Oct. 9.

"We did the interview and we went out for pictures," he said. "Then I decided I would go in and try to buy a cd, because I don't have that one, and it just came out, or a t-shirt or whatever and I listened to a few songs and, boom, I was strong-armed out of there. I mean, these guys grabbed me up like I was Hannibal Lector."

Jenkins said he didn't sneak-in, he walked in the front door.

"'We're going to take you up there and we're going to take you back out,' that's what they said," explained Jenkins. "So when the interview finished they weren't there and, like I said, I'm a huge fan of that band."

When security could not find Jenkins after the interview, they went into the concert looking for him.

"He was trying to get away from us when we approached him, so we took hold of his arm and gently led him towards the exit," said Jones.

Jenkins disagreed.

"I actually had some friends at that gig and I was looking for them, I was not hiding from anyone."

When asked if Jenkins regretted his decision Jenkins responded promptly.

"No," he said. "I love the Weakerthans." Haha

[Wooster]

That's hilarious. Yeah at the mayoral forum he said he was going, but didn't have a ticket but would figure out some way to get in.

Ha ha

[Riise]

I think this show's the public how "real" he is... Hahaha! So out of our Mayoral Candidates we have: a Sleeper, Bronco; an alleged Thief, Alnoor; and a guy who sneaks into concerts. Who said Municipal Politics is boring?

[lubicon]

If I was in town to vote, I'd certainly be voting for Bronco. The only 'legitimate' candidate other than him is Alnoor, and I would NEVER vote for that sleazeball, so Bronco it is. He hasn't done a bad job and I'm glad he's comitted to building WLRT, so he'd be my choice.

I'm sure Bronco will win again, and I hope he does quite honestly. However his stand against the 'Support our Troops' decals means he will not be getting my vote this time around. Same goes for Dale Hodges (my alderman).

[Wooster]

Personally, the decal thing is a non-issue for me. It was blown way out of proportion. I don't see why city-owned vehicles should endorse anything. People can freely display decals on their own personal vehicles if they choose.

I voted against Hodges for different reasons - mostly that he is a tool.

[You Need A Thneed]

Personally, the decal thing is a non-issue for me. It was blown way out of proportion. I don't see why city-owned vehicles should endorse anything. People can freely display decals on their own personal vehicles if they choose.



I agree with this, the city shouldn't have a policy either way. If individuals want to put decals on their vehicles, fine. Just because a decal isn't on a vehicle doesn't mean that the driver of the vehicle doesn't support the troops.

What they city wanted to do probobly would support the troops more then merely displaying the decals. They wanted to actually raise some money to donate to veterans! How is that "non-support?"

[Beltliner]

Looks like ward8.kook (http://www.ward8.com) is running scared, if the almost comprehensible mailout he sent datelined 02 October has any merit to it:

Dear Beltline Resident

With the civic election less than two weeks away you face a difficult choice. Three more years of Alderman King or a much needed change. Most people want change but it may be harder to get than you think.

...Until recently this was King's election to lose. I only needed a few hundred more votes over 2004. Unfortunately John Mar's sudden decision to run has changed that. It has allowed King a possible chance of victory if Mar could split the vote against her. Our latest poll shows King dropping from 43% to 35% of the decided vote. I have about 45% and John Mar 20%. Hence your dilemma. It is possible, given the money John is spending on this campaign and his team he could allow King to win a third term. John still needs several thousand votes to win. I only need a few hundred. The Beltline could be the community that decides King's fate and the future of Ward 8. King is counting on you to support John Mar because every vote he gets may be one less vote King needs to keep her job.

Do we really need another developer at city hall? Doesn't our community have enough projects on the go at one time?

Et maintenant, mesdames et messieurs, la pièce de résistance de notre essai aujourd'hui:

Do you believe that John Mar deserves to be your alderman on his first try? Most politicians take two or three attempts. They spend the time between elections learning what the job entails which demonstrates commitment, allows for name recognition, and provides a chance to learn the civic process. John has not done this yet. Civic politics is still new to him. Is it really time for John to represent you at City Hall? Does he have the experience to deal with all the varied issues facing Calgary over the next few years?

Or will you support me and see real change at city hall. A change that I have worked on for six years. A change that I am uniquely qualified to bring about.

Discuss amongst yourselves--reading this screed in hard copy made me feel a little verklempt. :D

[Wooster]

^ I'm hoping Chapman is correct and that he and Mar split the right wing vote.

It will be interesting to see how several elections pan out.

Ward 8 is obviously key, Koenig could unseet Ceci, Larocque is probably in trouble, Perhaps Banks can finally send Hodges into retirement, and 11 is up in the air, although Pincott is probably the favourite.

It could either be a very urbanist council if the likes of King, Ceci and Pincott win, or filled with PGIB assholes. If we have a council of Chabots and McIvers this city will go down the tubes.

[Beltliner]

It could either be a very urbanist council if the likes of King, Ceci and Pincott win, or filled with PGIB assholes. If we have a council of Chabots and McIvers this city will go down the tubes.

Not to mention this entire notion of letting the besplatniki take the C-Train to the Stampede grounds for more free parking--Dr No trumpeted that point in his literature, and ward8.kook and Terlesky-7 both advocate the idea, but have any of these candidates actually seen the Stampede Board's plans for "transforming a parking lot into a park"?

[lubicon]

^ I'm hoping Chapman is correct and that he and Mar split the right wing vote.

It will be interesting to see how several elections pan out.

Ward 8 is obviously key, Koenig could unseet Ceci, Larocque is probably in trouble, Perhaps Banks can finally send Hodges into retirement, and 11 is up in the air, although Pincott is probably the favourite.

It could either be a very urbanist council if the likes of King, Ceci and Pincott win, or filled with PGIB assholes. If we have a council of Chabots and McIvers this city will go down the tubes.

OK, Rick McIvor is a knob (I won't dispute that), but it's probably good that we have one (and only one) person like him on council. The guy is a fiscal hawk and having someone looking at pennies all the time is probably a good balance to have. That said, a whole council of him would be very bad.

[Corndogger]

^ I'm hoping Chapman is correct and that he and Mar split the right wing vote.

It will be interesting to see how several elections pan out.

Ward 8 is obviously key, Koenig could unseet Ceci, Larocque is probably in trouble, Perhaps Banks can finally send Hodges into retirement, and 11 is up in the air, although Pincott is probably the favourite.

It could either be a very urbanist council if the likes of King, Ceci and Pincott win, or filled with PGIB assholes. If we have a council of Chabots and McIvers this city will go down the tubes.

If Pincott wins we can say goodbye to development and everything else that makes this city tick. I'm hoping people in Ward 11 remember Pincott ran for the NDP recently and deliver him another crushing defeat. The fact that he belongs to an environmental group makes him no better than the so-called 'developer-friendly' candidates.

It would be great if we could have citizen-driven initiatives and referendums in this city (province as well) so we drive the agenda and not the other way around. Then people might actually get out and vote.

[Bassic Lab]

If Pincott wins we can say goodbye to development and everything else that makes this city tick. I'm hoping people in Ward 11 remember Pincott ran for the NDP recently and deliver him another crushing defeat. The fact that he belongs to an environmental group makes him no better than the so-called 'developer-friendly' candidates.

It would be great if we could have citizen-driven initiatives and referendums in this city (province as well) so we drive the agenda and not the other way around. Then people might actually get out and vote.

Bob Hawkesworth was a two term NDP MLA for Calgary Mountainview and Dave Bronconnier ran federally for the Liberals in Calgary West. Al Duer and Ralph Klein were both seen as Liberals during their time as mayor. Municipally speaking this city leans Centre-Left pretty hard. Pincott's prior electoral experiance likely won't affect him adversely.

Doesn't Ward 11 also have a candidate from Elboya running for the sole purpose of blocking the proposed condos along 50th? Now that is a real anti-development candidate.

[Wooster]

I don't see how being NDP or environmentalist is anti-urban development. If anything an environmentalist would push much harder for the intensification of the city. On Council, the more left leaning alderman are most pro-urban density.

[KrisYYC]

I'm conservative and I voted for Pincott. This is a municipal election, not provincial or federal. Party politics don't play a role in this one. I voted for Pincott because to me he seems the one in my ward who best understands the issues facing the ward and the city as a whole. He really seems willing to work with the city to deal with issues that affect the entire city, and not JUST ward 11. The other canditates seem a bit nimbyish especially Jim Murray. He even stated outright that he would fight any demolition of buildings in ward 11 that would be required to build an LRT station...

[93JC]

The prospect of voting for some Sierra Club fruitcake is downright scary. Pincott has put together the best campaign (read: he spent the most money on advertising), and I believe he won't break any of his promises. I can respect the commitment to his beliefs.

Of course, that means the chances of the 37th Street extension going ahead drop significantly if he's elected. Which is bad. Really bad. Super ultra mega bad. From his campaign brochure:

"Under no circumstances should the Ring Road project evolve
into something that adds to Ward 11 traffic congestion or threatens our
beloved Weaselhead Natural Area."

Sounds to me like a resounding "NO RING ROAD!", but there's an outside chance I'm exaggerating.

Other gems from his campaign literature on transportation include this ditty:

"To reduce traffic gridlock, pollution and greenhouse
gas emissions, we must diversify our transportation system by planning to
move people, not just cars. I will work to make Calgary meet its
commitment to a 50/50 financial split between roads and transit."

In my mind, knowing his background, that means roughly the same thing as one of Boris' longwinded SSP forums diatribes: no new roads. Ever.

Ironically, most of the other stuff, more strictly environmentalist stuff, I'd have no problem with. Pesticides, if not a detriment to our health, are at the very least a waste of money as evidenced by the annual dandelion crop on all city-owned parcels of land. Curbside recycling service might actually encourage people such as myself, people who otherwise wouldn't, to recycle. I'd be happy with it, so long as it doesn't cost much.



Every other candidate seems just as bad in their own way, unfortunately.

Whelan is some Mount Royal socialite flake.

Murray doesn't have much of a campaign other than he wants new arenas, soccer fields and lacrosse playing surfaces of some sort built. Okaaaaay...

I'm not really sure what to make of Rockwell, other than he's said he'll push for 37th Street and widening 14th. At this point I think I'll end up voting for him. Seems honest and down to earth.

I don't know a damned thing about Matthews, other than he's old enough to be my grandpa.

[freeweed]

I don't see how being NDP or environmentalist is anti-urban development.

Just anti-progress.

Those of you who've never had the fun of living under the NDP, count your blessings. And those who want to - you know not what you ask for. Well, unless you're already on welfare and never planning to work. Or in a union. Which is arguably the same thing once the NDP take over.

And honestly, as long as the screwball is allowed to speak his nonsensical out-of-touch-with-reality horseshit, and no one calls him on it, I'm gonna keep on posting completely over the top here. Maybe I can be the "closest runner up" to Bronco in the next election if I go completely off the deep end, too! :jester:

Can't say much about environmentalists, though. I live a tremendously reduced lifestyle compared to *most* people, but to me it's just common sense.

[freeweed]

Pesticides, if not a detriment to our health, are at the very least a waste of money as evidenced by the annual dandelion crop on all city-owned parcels of land.

Those would be herbicides. Pesticides kill bugs.

Don't mean to correct you, and if it was an honest mistake, I apologize. But to me it reads like something an actual candidate has said, and this is what's pissing me off about the whole campaign (and politics in general). A bunch of talking heads repeating some buzzwords and keyphrases they read on a website in the hopes of convincing people that they have a hot clue what the hell they're talking about.

Our politicians should, and in my opinion, must know better. If you don't know the difference between what we're spraying on our green, that's ok - but you sure as shit shouldn't be allowed to make the decisions as to whether or not we spray it. Politicians like that are the reason immunization programs have gotten so horrible, and why the Maritimes saw a huge mumps outbreak. A bit off-topic, but it's the same root problem: people making decisions without understanding what the hell they're doing.

Hell, the US is undergoing a country-wide experiment on this very premise right now. :jester:

[Boris2k7]

I don't see how being NDP or environmentalist is anti-urban development. If anything an environmentalist would push much harder for the intensification of the city. On Council, the more left leaning alderman are most pro-urban density.

He's not worried about urban development or density, transit, anything else. Go look in the freeway thread to see what I mean. Read: Ultra-right reactionaries.

On another note, the way that people still refer to anyone who is even close to being an environmentalist as a "fruitcake" or "scary" is downright ignorant and unbecoming in this day an age.

Pincott is the only decent candidate in Ward 11. He actually has a clue what is going on and what needs to be done. As if it would be a travesty to actually stick to the 50/50 split which the city has already committed to but not followed in terms of funding? Too bad I got stuck with Nursie. Though there are things she's done that I support (like the smoking bylaw), there's also a lot of stuff I dislike, like her emphasis on the almighty Southwest Connector, which will accelarate the development of sprawl well beyond the edge of Bridlewood.

[93JC]

On another note, the way that people still refer to anyone who is even close to being an environmentalist as a "fruitcake" or "scary" is downright ignorant and unbecoming in this day an age.

:rolleyes:

How would you describe Ric McIver?

Pincott is the only decent candidate in Ward 11. He actually has a clue what is going on and what needs to be done.

I knew you of all people would love him. :D

[93JC]

Those would be herbicides. Pesticides kill bugs.

Don't bugs pollenate them...? :shrug:

Or are they hermaphroditic or something?

A bunch of talking heads repeating some buzzwords and keyphrases they read on a website in the hopes of convincing people that they have a hot clue what the hell they're talking about.

:cheers:

[Boris2k7]

:rolleyes:

How would you describe Ric McIver?

You want the short rant or the long rant? :haha:

I can see where Dr. No is coming from with most of his remarks, and why he does what he does. That said, he has more history and baggage now than many another Alderman, and I have a feeling that we would see a lot more projects scrapped or put on the shelf for years to come if he was running council.

Now, Steve Chapman and his cohort are much more along the lines of what I would consider "scary."

[93JC]

I'd rather you consider that you don't have many kind things to say about politicians you don't agree with, so it's best not to chastise other people as ignorant and unbecoming for doing the exact same thing you would do under the same circumstances. ;)

[Boris2k7]

Fair enough, but I still disagree about "scary" environmentalists.

The Ring Road is the last thing this city needs, there's no need for any road widenings (other than at bottlenecks, which is a safety hazard). There's a strong need to push council on evening out the transportation funding (hey, I never seed we don't need ANY roads, just no commuter expressways, those should be reserved for truck traffic and as limited access highways). There's a need for curbside recycling, and to extend it to condo owners, and herbicides are of course, bad.

And there are real quality of life issues at stake, including the ability of the city to continue to pay for existing and expanded services, the air quality (which if it goes downhill could cause increased rates of illness such as asthma), and other problems such as resource depletion (inefficient use of water, energy, natural gas, etc., which leads to shortages and higher prices) and damage done to wetlands and what remains of our arable farmland (doing damage to water quality, the ecosystem as an extension, and the increased reliance on imported food).

It's not nutty. These are very down-to-earth issues that either have started affecting us or will in the near future.

[93JC]

He's 'scary' because, as freeweed so aptly pointed out, his platform is largely "some buzzwords and keyphrases ... in the hopes of convincing people that they have a hot clue what the hell they're talking about".

For example:

"Under no circumstances should the Ring Road project evolve
into something that adds to Ward 11 traffic congestion or threatens our
beloved Weaselhead Natural Area."

WTF does this mean? All I really want to know is whether the road will get built ASAP if he's alderman, or whether he'll pussyfoot around it for a few months and give up on it and it'll get shelved for another 40 years.

Given his history as an environmentalist chances are it means the latter. Truth is I don't know, and that is what is 'scary'.

And it's not just Brian Pincott: it's EVERY aldermanic candidate in Ward 11. They're all ambiguous, and while that may not make you freak out it disturbs the hell out of me.

[Boris2k7]

He's 'scary' because, as freeweed so aptly pointed out, his platform is largely "some buzzwords and keyphrases ... in the hopes of convincing people that they have a hot clue what the hell they're talking about".

For example:

"Under no circumstances should the Ring Road project evolve
into something that adds to Ward 11 traffic congestion or threatens our
beloved Weaselhead Natural Area."

WTF does this mean? All I really want to know is whether the road will get built ASAP if he's alderman, or whether he'll pussyfoot around it for a few months and give up on it and it'll get shelved for another 40 years.

Given his history as an environmentalist chances are it means the latter. Truth is I don't know, and that is what is 'scary'.

And it's not just Brian Pincott: it's EVERY aldermanic candidate in Ward 11. They're all ambiguous, and while that may not make you freak out it disturbs the hell out of me.

There's nothing really outrageous about that comment. All he's said is that the Ring Road shouldn't (a) add to congestion in the area, meaning there shouldn't be traffic coming off of it, which means less interchanges and (b) that the city and province should find a solution which mitigates damage to the weaselhead. In reality, the province has most of the control over this issue anyways.

Since I don't like the ring road anyways, for reasons stated in my previous post, I don't find anything "scary" about it.

[93JC]

All he's said is that the Ring Road shouldn't (a) add to congestion in the area

THAT is all he said. This stuff:

meaning there shouldn't be traffic coming off of it, which means less interchanges

you inferred. He didn't say any of that. Not one word.

That's why it's unnerving.

[Boris2k7]

THAT is all he said. This stuff:



you inferred. He didn't say any of that. Not one word.

That's why it's unnerving.

Oh come on, that's not a whole lot of speculation. It's not really any different than we've heard from Erskine before him. I think we are overreacting a bit here. Again, it's mostly out of his hands, especially as an area Alderman. He could kick and scream, and have some influence in council, but the province is running the ring-road, good or bad.

For example:
http://www.barryerskine.ca/pressnews.lasso?session=&shop=&PRG=&CT=396&menu=&look=&refto=

"Erskine said the tunnel is preferable to a bridge over the Weaselhead. A bridge would involve the removal of 100 to 200 homes on the east side of 37th Street north of the reservoir, at a cost of $25 million to $50 million, as well as increase noise and visual pollution across one of Calgary's most valued environmental reserves. The homes and the Weaselhead are currently protected by the GO Plan."

http://www.aldermandiane.ca/documents/Herald-Dec12RingRoadConnectionsOff-Track_000.pdf

"Despite recommendations from the city's traffic engineers, some aldermen see no
need to tie 90th Avenue S.W. or Southland Drive to the ring road.

Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart says the two road connectors are a waste of money that
won't make a bit of difference. Ald. Barry Erskine, on the other hand, fears the roads
will be flooded with traffic to a proposed business park on the Tsuu T'ina reserve."

[Corndogger]

Bob Hawkesworth was a two term NDP MLA for Calgary Mountainview and Dave Bronconnier ran federally for the Liberals in Calgary West. Al Duer and Ralph Klein were both seen as Liberals during their time as mayor. Municipally speaking this city leans Centre-Left pretty hard. Pincott's prior electoral experiance likely won't affect him adversely.

Doesn't Ward 11 also have a candidate from Elboya running for the sole purpose of blocking the proposed condos along 50th? Now that is a real anti-development candidate.

But none of the above people are what you would consider ideologically driven like Pincott appears to be. Hawkesworth keeps getting realistic because he is reasonable and gets things done.

As for the Ward 11 candidate running to block the condo development, I'm not sure if that is totally true as I believe the locals have been trying to stop that long before the election campaign. But it does provide another example of how people say they want more density but in reality only want it if it's somewhere else.

[Corndogger]

He's not worried about urban development or density, transit, anything else. Go look in the freeway thread to see what I mean. Read: Ultra-right reactionaries.

On another note, the way that people still refer to anyone who is even close to being an environmentalist as a "fruitcake" or "scary" is downright ignorant and unbecoming in this day an age.

Pincott is the only decent candidate in Ward 11. He actually has a clue what is going on and what needs to be done. As if it would be a travesty to actually stick to the 50/50 split which the city has already committed to but not followed in terms of funding? Too bad I got stuck with Nursie. Though there are things she's done that I support (like the smoking bylaw), there's also a lot of stuff I dislike, like her emphasis on the almighty Southwest Connector, which will accelarate the development of sprawl well beyond the edge of Bridlewood.

Oh brother. You're calling me an ultra-right reactionary. I'm actually calling for the city and all levels of government to do what the majority of people want and not a bunch of social engineers such as yourself who are more interested in shoving their ideology down people's throats than they are in improving life for people in general.

I hate to say it here, but the other person who said Pincott is scary is right. Everytime I hear him on the radio or read something by him it smacks of idelogocial propoganda mixed in with a heavy doze of lies. I wish he would quit calling the Weasel Head a natural area when anyone with a bit of knowledge about Calgary's history knows it was created when the Glenmore Dam was constructed. I'm not advocating we go in there and destroy it but to act like it's sacred land is way over the top.

His anti-road stance is the main reason he should never be let near any decision making role in this country. We are already spending more on transit than on roads (I suggest he and others like him learn how to read a budget) which is a real disaster in the making. Bronco got elected the first time on his promise to build more roads and interchanges. For awhile he wasn't doing too bad. He got reelected based on the same platform. Then during these past three years he got brainwashed by the social engineers down at city hall. Last time I checked, which was very recently, traffic is still the number issue in this city. Too bad these joke 28 day campaigns don't give people the time to get know what the candidates stand for. If people in Ward 11 were presented with the rants of Pincott there is no way in hell he would come close to winning. I pray that on Monday enough people with common sense in that Ward go and vote for someone else. Vote for the socialite (if that's what she is) if she's the best of a sad lot and join me in being faced with the same dilemma in Ward 8.

[Corndogger]

You want the short rant or the long rant? :haha:

I can see where Dr. No is coming from with most of his remarks, and why he does what he does. That said, he has more history and baggage now than many another Alderman, and I have a feeling that we would see a lot more projects scrapped or put on the shelf for years to come if he was running council.

Now, Steve Chapman and his cohort are much more along the lines of what I would consider "scary."

Which of the two do you want me to vote for? ;) I've had it with King because she doesn't listen unless you live in Mt. Royal and the young woman is too ideological. The other two scare me as well but probably for different reasons than they scare you.

[Beltliner]

Which of the two do you want me to vote for? ;) I've had it with King because she doesn't listen unless you live in Mt. Royal....

...or unless you enunciate in the clearest possible terms the causal relationship between answering one's mail and earning one's vote. ;)

[freeweed]

Don't bugs pollenate them...? :shrug:

Or are they hermaphroditic or something?


Some plants are pollinated by insects, yeah. Off the top of my head I believe dandelions are mostly bee-pollinated, but that's just based on the activity I see (and the common pollinators around here). That aside, you still wouldn't use pesticides to control weeds. Well, no one sane would. :haha: If there are any botany nerds out there who feel like showing me a counter-example, I'd be curious - because it just seems to "out there" that it'd be neat to actually see it in action.

Anyway, for the record I wasn't calling this Pinnott guy scary. He sure sounds it - quite frankly he sounds just as NIMBY as the idiots in Varsity - OMG TRAFFIC IN MY NEIGHBOURHOOD OMG CRIME! (don't forget, NIMBY only applies if you disagree with someone) At least I understand where he's coming from, if I disagree with him. The truly nutty are the ones who you just can't, no matter how hard you try, understand what the hell they're talking about.

Hint: "the NYC subway is safer than the C-Train". I'll leave it to the reader to figure out who I'm talking about. It's either the most ignorant comment I've ever heard from a civic politician, or he's out-and-out MAKING IT UP TO ATTACK THE INCUMBENT. I'm not sure what scares me more. :(

[Beltliner]

...The truly nutty are the ones who you just can't, no matter how hard you try, understand what the hell they're talking about.

Hint: "the NYC subway is safer than the C-Train". I'll leave it to the reader to figure out who I'm talking about. It's either the most ignorant comment I've ever heard from a civic politician, or he's out-and-out MAKING IT UP TO ATTACK THE INCUMBENT. I'm not sure what scares me more. :(

Well, can't you see that's the last act of a desperate man?

"We don't care if it's the first act of Henry the Fifth. We're leaving. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/quotes)"

[Corndogger]

...or unless you enunciate in the clearest possible terms the causal relationship between answering one's mail and earning one's vote. ;)

I've emailed King a number of times on various issues and have noticed that if I say something that she disagrees with I never get a reply. If I agree with her I get a response very quickly. She's damn lucky she won last time with her "I don't give a fuck attitude unless you are rich." Are wealthy people significantly more likely to vote than the less well off?

[Corndogger]

Some plants are pollinated by insects, yeah. Off the top of my head I believe dandelions are mostly bee-pollinated, but that's just based on the activity I see (and the common pollinators around here). That aside, you still wouldn't use pesticides to control weeds. Well, no one sane would. :haha: If there are any botany nerds out there who feel like showing me a counter-example, I'd be curious - because it just seems to "out there" that it'd be neat to actually see it in action.

Anyway, for the record I wasn't calling this Pinnott guy scary. He sure sounds it - quite frankly he sounds just as NIMBY as the idiots in Varsity - OMG TRAFFIC IN MY NEIGHBOURHOOD OMG CRIME! (don't forget, NIMBY only applies if you disagree with someone) At least I understand where he's coming from, if I disagree with him. The truly nutty are the ones who you just can't, no matter how hard you try, understand what the hell they're talking about.

Hint: "the NYC subway is safer than the C-Train". I'll leave it to the reader to figure out who I'm talking about. It's either the most ignorant comment I've ever heard from a civic politician, or he's out-and-out MAKING IT UP TO ATTACK THE INCUMBENT. I'm not sure what scares me more. :(

The crime rate in NYC has really gone down in the last 20 years. Based on crime rates NYC ranks 168 in the US. In other words there are a lot of places that have more crime and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the C-Train is less safe than the subway in NYC. It might be time for us to actually hire people to sell tickets and half transit cops that constantly ride the trains and give them guns, etc.

[Bassic Lab]

I've emailed King a number of times on various issues and have noticed that if I say something that she disagrees with I never get a reply. If I agree with her I get a response very quickly. She's damn lucky she won last time with her "I don't give a fuck attitude unless you are rich." Are wealthy people significantly more likely to vote than the less well off?

Yes they are, wealth, class, and educational background (along with age) all have a signifigant affect on the chances someone is engaged in politics. This engagement varies from voting, to volunteering, to running. First year Poli Sci stuff.

You're one to talk about lies. This city spends no where near as much on transit as it does on roads. The ratio gets even worse when one considers the amount spent by the province on transportation in the city. You might also want to take back some of your comments regarding Pincott and the ring road.

From Pincott's site (http://www.brianpincott.ca/Ring%20Road.html)


Forty years is too long to wait. It’s time to fish or cut bait.

1.
Right now, the Province and the Tsuu T’ina nation are negotiating without the City even present. We need to get back to that table now.
2.
We need to use our bargaining chips -- like access to the casino -- to secure the best possible deal for Calgary.
3.
We also need to make contingency plans if talks fail. Preservation of the Weaselhead is paramount -- that’s one of the reasons a tunnel is a non-starter. If we built an iconic bridge -- an architectural marvel -- over the Weaselhead, this could be acceptable, but the road would have to go somewhere -- not through Lakeview -- on the other side.
4.
We also have to re-examine what the road is for -- is it truly a bypass or a commuter road? This question has to be answered before we can make a decision on alignment or connections.


Does that really sound like some one opposed to the ring road at all costs? If so I'd like to know what you consider full support.

[Corndogger]

Yes they are, wealth, class, and educational background (along with age) all have a signifigant affect on the chances someone is engaged in politics. This engagement varies from voting, to volunteering, to running. First year Poli Sci stuff.

You're one to talk about lies. This city spends no where near as much on transit as it does on roads. The ratio gets even worse when one considers the amount spent by the province on transportation in the city. You might also want to take back some of your comments regarding Pincott and the ring road.

From Pincott's site (http://www.brianpincott.ca/Ring%20Road.html)



Does that really sound like some one opposed to the ring road at all costs? If so I'd like to know what you consider full support.

I wasn't the one who made the comments about Pincott and the ringroad. As for the city spending more on transit than roads they do. Of the approx. $2 billion spent on new roads and transit in the last three years the split was $1.1 billion for transit and $800 million for roads. Check city budget figures and you'll see that transit is allocated more than roads.

[Riise]

Oh brother. You're calling me an ultra-right reactionary. I'm actually calling for the city and all levels of government to do what the majority of people want and not a bunch of social engineers such as yourself who are more interested in shoving their ideology down people's throats than they are in improving life for people in general.

What the majority of people want is the ability to easily and conveniently move around their city, which is what people like Boris and myself would like to give them. More roads does not lead to an increase in mobility/accessibility nor does it decrease congestion. In addition, if you actually were to listen to what Boris says you would know that he isn't a social engineer; he's a proponent of sustainability, which includes the social aspect as well as environmental and economic. Your misbelief that the city spends more on transit than roads shows how you are blind to the external diseconomy of sprawl and excessive road building. Our auto-dependency is stealing shitloads of money from the local economy and could very well be a major factor in its crash.

[Corndogger]

What the majority of people want is the ability to easily and conveniently move around their city, which is what people like Boris and myself would like to give them. More roads does not lead to an increase in mobility/accessibility nor does it decrease congestion. In addition, if you actually were to listen to what Boris says you would know that he isn't a social engineer; he's a proponent of sustainability, which includes the social aspect as well as environmental and economic. Your misbelief that the city spends more on transit than roads shows how you are blind to the external diseconomy of sprawl and excessive road building. Our auto-dependency is stealing shitloads of money from the local economy and could very well be a major factor in its crash.

The majority of people also want the freedom to go where they want and when they want. This is something only private vehicles can provide.

I've read enough of what Boris has said to know that he is a social engineer and someone who is blind to reality. How many times do you people have to be presented with stories of where communities will do anything to stop development in their area to keep density to a minimum? The vast majority of people want to own their house and that is only possible if land costs are kept affordable. Sustainability and affordable land costs do not go together. I would think most people in Vancouver would totally agree with that and so would anyone who took a minute to think about what happens to the price of scarce resources.

Once again about spending on roads vs. transit, the City of Calgary has been spending more on transit for a few years now. Go to the City's website and look up the budget figures. This stuff is also published every once in awhile in the paper and you'll clearly see that I'm not mistaken.To get you started have a look at http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/finance/budget/2006_2008/approved/business_plan_transportation.pdf.

Also, for what seems like the millionth time, without a good road system our economy would take a serious hit. Calgary is a major distribution center and if our roads get any more clogged up we will start to see such companies leave for places where people are more concerned about their economic well being than they are about saving a bit of land. For us to be worrying about a minute amount of land given the amount we have is just crazy. We don't live in Hong Kong and we should stop planning like we do. One last point, the only reason you guys think Calgary has sprawl is because you make the mistake of comparing our uni-city concept with other cities that have more traditional metro areas but you forget to factor in their metro areas into your calculations. The City did a nice analysis blowing away that nonsensical comparison with NYC (comparing us with a city that was extremely built up before cars were even invented is also disingenious) and I bet we would look very good compared to most places in North America.

[Sir.Humphrey.Appleby]

The majority of people also want the freedom to go where they want and when they want. This is something only private vehicles can provide.

I've read enough of what Boris has said to know that he is a social engineer and someone who is blind to reality. How many times do you people have to be presented with stories of where communities will do anything to stop development in their area to keep density to a minimum? The vast majority of people want to own their house and that is only possible if land costs are kept affordable. Sustainability and affordable land costs do not go together. I would think most people in Vancouver would totally agree with that and so would anyone who took a minute to think about what happens to the price of scarce resources.

Once again about spending on roads vs. transit, the City of Calgary has been spending more on transit for a few years now. Go to the City's website and look up the budget figures. This stuff is also published every once in awhile in the paper and you'll clearly see that I'm not mistaken.To get you started have a look at http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/finance/budget/2006_2008/approved/business_plan_transportation.pdf.

Also, for what seems like the millionth time, without a good road system our economy would take a serious hit. Calgary is a major distribution center and if our roads get any more clogged up we will start to see such companies leave for places where people are more concerned about their economic well being than they are about saving a bit of land. For us to be worrying about a minute amount of land given the amount we have is just crazy. We don't live in Hong Kong and we should stop planning like we do. One last point, the only reason you guys think Calgary has sprawl is because you make the mistake of comparing our uni-city concept with other cities that have more traditional metro areas but you forget to factor in their metro areas into your calculations. The City did a nice analysis blowing away that nonsensical comparison with NYC (comparing us with a city that was extremely built up before cars were even invented is also disingenious) and I bet we would look very good compared to most places in North America.

The roads vs transit argument, you have to look at provincial spending aswell on the ring road which isn't included in the city transportation budget. The adds a massive amount of weight to the roads side of the equation.

[freeweed]

The crime rate in NYC has really gone down in the last 20 years. Based on crime rates NYC ranks 168 in the US. In other words there are a lot of places that have more crime and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the C-Train is less safe than the subway in NYC. It might be time for us to actually hire people to sell tickets and half transit cops that constantly ride the trains and give them guns, etc.

I'd be very fucking surprised if the C-Train is anywhere CLOSE to the NYC subway in terms of crime.

1. Saying NYC's crime rate has gone down a lot in the past 20 years is very true. It also used to be one of the highest in the developed world. It's still pretty bad compared to a Canadian city.

2. When a violent incident occurs on the C-Train, IT'S FRONT PAGE NEWS. People get attacked on the subway in NYC all the time, and it's no longer news. Less often than 20 years ago? Absolutely. Less often than Calgary? I highly doubt it.

Seriously, we've had ONE "murder" on the C-Train that I can even remember. It made headlines for WEEKS because it's so uncommon. Even violent assaults are so infrequent that they get talked about for days when they do happen. Hell, I don't think I've even met someone who's been mugged on the C-Train. Good luck finding ANYONE in Manhattan who can say that. :P

Now, as to stop talking out of my ass - anyone able to dig up actual statistics? I'd think crimes per 100,000 rides or something would be appropriate...

Anyway, I'd have no problem with hiring some more transit cops. More safety is always better. But it's a complete outright LIE to claim the C-Train is "dangerous", any moreso than any other transportation system. ie: without a police state, you'll always have SOME crime. Ours is pretty bloody low in this city, contrary to what the news media have convinced people.

Personally I'm a lot more comfortable on the train at night than I would be walking from say 7th to 17th Ave. It's well-lit, there are other people around - and worst case, there's the big red button.

[Boris2k7]

I would note here that Corndogger is on my ignore list, and has been for a week. So I don't even see most of his "arguments," except through people's quotes. I have better things to do than waste away my weekends lecturing to someone who won't even read the material that they bring to the table. However, this absurd post deserves a response.

Simply by looking at the chart and keeping projects such as the Ring Road in the back of the mind, it is quite clear that the funding is NOT 50/50.

I direct you to page D4

2006-2010 Capital Budget Plan

Calgary Transit - $413.1 Million
Roads - $167.5 Million
TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE - $748.0 Million

Now, if we go back to page C2, we can see for a small blurb on what constitutes Transportation Infrastructure:

- Construct key road/interchange projects to maximize mobility (e.g. GE5
and 16 Avenue North widening). CP2.6 Fast-track new interchanges, 2.9
Fast-track road widenings

- Construct key LRT and other transit infrastructure projects to position
Calgary Transit to address future ridership growth (e.g. NE and NW LRT
extensions, 7 Avenue LRT station upgrades). CP2.7 Fast-track LRT system,
2.8 Downtown LRT station upgrades

- Implement transit fl eet acquisition plan (community shuttle, bus, LRV).
CP2.10 Purchase 30 buses

CI - Implement traffic management and communication plans for the
construction phase of major infrastructure projects to minimize the impact
on public (e.g. mobile variable message signage).

Now, given that all the transit spending is already accounted for in the chart, that would mean that $915,510,000 of the $1,328,589,000 that the CITY is spending on transportation is going to roads and interchanges. That is 69% of the transportation funding.

Buses ARE going to use SOME of those roads, it still doesn't account for the difference. If we throw in the ~$1.1 Billion Ring Road that the province is blowing money on, the share for transit drops from 31% to 17%!

There isn't even a point in responding the rest of the post in that quote, since he blatantly misconstrues and denies what just about every planner on this board has said, as well making claims that read like a SUN editorial. See Riise's response for more detail on why auto-dependency is bad for the local economy.

[Riise]

The majority of people also want the freedom to go where they want and when they want. This is something only private vehicles can provide.

That is completely untrue. If it wasn’t, then how would people in Hong Kong, Tokyo, and NYC get around? The only thing the private automobile can give people that “public transit” cannot is “direct” point-to-point service (unlimited mobility). However, a proper transit system can give EVERYONE city wide accessibility which is much more important and valuable.

How many times do you people have to be presented with stories of where communities will do anything to stop development in their area to keep density to a minimum? The vast majority of people want to own their house…

They do this because they are, mistakenly, scared of density and don’t know any better. I use to think that Calgary needed more freeways to solve its congestion problems and I wanted a relatively sizeable house, but after going to Europe and seeing the alternative I quickly learned better. Like my quote says: “Such suburban models are being rationalized as ‘what people want,’ when in fact they are simply what is most expedient to produce. The truth is that what people want is a decent place to live, not just a suburban version of a decent place to live.” That decent place can be provided through adherence to the principles of SmartGrowth.

The vast majority of people want to own their house and that is only possible if land costs are kept affordable. Sustainability and affordable land costs do not go together.

Do you know what an external diseconomy is? If not here’s the definition:

Costs that accrue to society from consumption and production in addition to the direct costs of the individual consumer and producer are called external diseconomies.

Now with this in mind consider the external diseconomy of suburban sprawl. There is no way the cost of a house in the ‘burbs includes the costs incurred from building new roads, schools, and public facilities. Nor does it include the costs of providing those underutilized services. Individuals are not paying for their houses but rather through taxes, which will have to increase btw, we all are! And what really unfair is that some of us are paying more for others to live their wasteful lifestyle while they live a much more sustainable lifestyle.

Once again about spending on roads vs. transit, the City of Calgary has been spending more on transit for a few years now.

I don’t believe those numbers cover the full costs and even if they did, for how many years have we been spending more money on roads than transit? In order for transit to prove itself we’ll have to give it time and money to do so.

Also, for what seems like the millionth time, without a good road system our economy would take a serious hit. Calgary is a major distribution center and if our roads get any more clogged up we will start to see such companies leave for places where people are more concerned about their economic well being than they are about saving a bit of land.

If you were to actually pay attention to what Boris and others like us say then you would know we are not anti-road and believe they have an important role to play in our transportation system. We simply believe that roads should not be built as the primary mode of transportation for the movement of people; as we know it cannot handle that role. Knowing the important role that roads play in the transportation of goods we hope to relieve roads of the burden of moving people around so it can fulfill its role in the movement of goods.

We don't live in Hong Kong and we should stop planning like we do.

Yeah, we are not Hong Kong and should not try to emulate them identically. However, we should try to emulate their success and in doing so we’ll have to copy a good number of their theories and few of their methods.

[freeweed]

Let me just repeat once again that I'm in total agreement that taxes don't ever cover the true cost of people's choices. Let's move property taxes, and the rest of the taxation system, to a true user-pay model.

I'll happily pay the full cost of my surburban road requirement if I could stop paying for welfare, healthcare for the obese, UI, and CPP. :tup: (I could nitpick and hit a lot more services that I'll never use, but :shrug: can't hit 'em all in a night.)

Shit, UI and CPP alone are more than my entire property tax bill. I'd gladly double my property taxes, which should more than pay for roads and transit extensions, if I could rid myself of services I'll never use, and only work to drain society in an unsustainable fashion.

[Corndogger]

I would note here that Corndogger is on my ignore list, and has been for a week. So I don't even see most of his "arguments," except through people's quotes. I have better things to do than waste away my weekends lecturing to someone who won't even read the material that they bring to the table. However, this absurd post deserves a response.

Simply by looking at the chart and keeping projects such as the Ring Road in the back of the mind, it is quite clear that the funding is NOT 50/50.

I direct you to page D4

2006-2010 Capital Budget Plan

Calgary Transit - $413.1 Million
Roads - $167.5 Million
TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE - $748.0 Million

Now, if we go back to page C2, we can see for a small blurb on what constitutes Transportation Infrastructure:

- Construct key road/interchange projects to maximize mobility (e.g. GE5
and 16 Avenue North widening). CP2.6 Fast-track new interchanges, 2.9
Fast-track road widenings

- Construct key LRT and other transit infrastructure projects to position
Calgary Transit to address future ridership growth (e.g. NE and NW LRT
extensions, 7 Avenue LRT station upgrades). CP2.7 Fast-track LRT system,
2.8 Downtown LRT station upgrades

- Implement transit fl eet acquisition plan (community shuttle, bus, LRV).
CP2.10 Purchase 30 buses

CI - Implement traffic management and communication plans for the
construction phase of major infrastructure projects to minimize the impact
on public (e.g. mobile variable message signage).

Now, given that all the transit spending is already accounted for in the chart, that would mean that $915,510,000 of the $1,328,589,000 that the CITY is spending on transportation is going to roads and interchanges. That is 69% of the transportation funding.

Buses ARE going to use SOME of those roads, it still doesn't account for the difference. If we throw in the ~$1.1 Billion Ring Road that the province is blowing money on, the share for transit drops from 31% to 17%!

There isn't even a point in responding the rest of the post in that quote, since he blatantly misconstrues and denies what just about every planner on this board has said, as well making claims that read like a SUN editorial. See Riise's response for more detail on why auto-dependency is bad for the local economy.

Boris seems to make it a habit of ignoring facts and when facts get in the way he just manipulates numbers to fit his theories. Honestly, how can anyone take seriously what you say when you add in the entire transportation infrastructure budget to roads despite it (and you mentioning it!) mentioning LRT and transit specific projects? Your 'logic' is so out to lunch that you shouldn't even consider lecturing anyone, especially me. I keep presenting facts (and usually from sources you rely on) and you keep on presenting dogma. You also conveniently forgot to factor in operating costs in which transit is higher than roads.

Your ring road point is another prime example of you making up numbers and not understanding how to apply numbers. Where are you getting this $1.1 billion from? Even if the number is right, the province is not spending that in the three-year time period under consideration in the document I quote. The $930 million being spent on the NE part of Stoney Trail sees the government paying the private consortium $300 million upfront and then $21 million/yr when the road is done for 30 years for maintenance. Don't go counting these payments as part of the 2006-2008 investment in roads.

One last point, since this thread is about the municipal election we are talking about what the City of Calgary is investing. If you have a problem with the province trying to protect the economic interests of all Albertans I suggest you bitch to them. No wonder they didn't want to give the City control over the money they plan on giving over the next 10 years. Based on what Bronco wants to do so far it be might time to give the province a veto over how the money is spent.

[Corndogger]

That is completely untrue. If it wasn’t, then how would people in Hong Kong, Tokyo, and NYC get around? The only thing the private automobile can give people that “public transit” cannot is “direct” point-to-point service (unlimited mobility). However, a proper transit system can give EVERYONE city wide accessibility which is much more important and valuable.

Comparing us to cities that have densities that we will never achieve doesn't solve any of our problems. Plus, these cities all had very high densities before cars came on the scene. Give me some examples of places in North America that were not already huge cities before 1900 and where a person can get to most places by only using transit. I doubt there is one place. Calgary is never going to have a high enough density for a proper transit system so why should we waste billions of dollars trying to build such a system?


They do this because they are, mistakenly, scared of density and don’t know any better. I use to think that Calgary needed more freeways to solve its congestion problems and I wanted a relatively sizeable house, but after going to Europe and seeing the alternative I quickly learned better. Like my quote says: “Such suburban models are being rationalized as ‘what people want,’ when in fact they are simply what is most expedient to produce. The truth is that what people want is a decent place to live, not just a suburban version of a decent place to live.” That decent place can be provided through adherence to the principles of SmartGrowth.

Calgary only has one freeway and it is badly designed. I'm not saying we need to build a huge network of freeways but we do need at least one decent N-S and one E-W freeway along with bypass freeways. Deerfoot needs fixes badly for safety reasons alone, and Glenmore could easily be turned into an E-W freeway. 201/202 will be our bypass freeway system. Certain other roads need to be made freeflow such as Crowchild and they all need to be designed properly and maintained.

At the same time I have never said I'm totally against transit (but Boris has sure said freeways are a waste of money). I've said we need to put the train underground downtown and that I'm only against the west LRT because I believe it is going to the wrong place. It needs to go to Mount Royal College and by doing so it will hit areas that will have much higher density than the proposed route. I also think we need to extend the LRT to the airport sooner than later--it's a huge economic employer and it would help tourism.

Concerning housing, people want what is functional for them and what they can afford. For better or worse that means a house in the suburb for most people. If you have kids that is about your only choice. I live in the inner city (in a high density condo building with recycling!) and I would say the area is very unfriendly to families with children. I know the building I live in does everything possible to keep kids out which is unfortunate because there is a school relatively close by and recreation facilities. But given all of the roadblocks it's not hard to see why families flock to the suburbs.


Do you know what an external diseconomy is? If not here’s the definition:

Now with this in mind consider the external diseconomy of suburban sprawl. There is no way the cost of a house in the ‘burbs includes the costs incurred from building new roads, schools, and public facilities. Nor does it include the costs of providing those underutilized services. Individuals are not paying for their houses but rather through taxes, which will have to increase btw, we all are! And what really unfair is that some of us are paying more for others to live their wasteful lifestyle while they live a much more sustainable lifestyle.

I understand what you're saying but you need to factor in what I said above. Most people are forced to move further out and you have to admit we live in a society that does not want to live in cramped quarters. We have way too much land to have to worry about such things. Also, people who live in the suburbs could use the same arguments against you. If it wasn't for them the city would never build things like performing arts centers, etc. but yet most of them will never set foot in them while people in the inner city are much more likely to. They also pay for increased police presence in the core which they would say is not fair.

I don’t believe those numbers cover the full costs and even if they did, for how many years have we been spending more money on roads than transit? In order for transit to prove itself we’ll have to give it time and money to do so.

We have to live with the numbers provided. In the past we spent next to nothing on roads (remember Al Duerr?) so I could easily say to prove that roads will work we need to invest in them. The key is that we need to have alternatives and believing that transit is all we need is foolish. Even your fellow planners believe that.


If you were to actually pay attention to what Boris and others like us say then you would know we are not anti-road and believe they have an important role to play in our transportation system. We simply believe that roads should not be built as the primary mode of transportation for the movement of people; as we know it cannot handle that role. Knowing the important role that roads play in the transportation of goods we hope to relieve roads of the burden of moving people around so it can fulfill its role in the movement of goods.

Boris has proven himself to be a hater of all roads. Roads can also move people but you have to have decent planners and engineers involved. That is Calgary's main problem with roads along with no investment in roads until very recently. Also, there's no need for you to come back and give an example like Houston because I'll fire back and tell you that Texas is growing like crazy and that Calgary's growth is nothing compared to some cities.


Yeah, we are not Hong Kong and should not try to emulate them identically. However, we should try to emulate their success and in doing so we’ll have to copy a good number of their theories and few of their methods.

But will we spend the kind of money they spend on transportation? Workable solutions usually involve large amounts of money and I don't see us having the will do anything right. Considering how young this city is we should have been able to build a great transportation network for very little cost because most of the land was never developed. Too bad we've had a history of basing our planning on the city never continuing it's success. It's time for a whole new planning department and a new transportation department. Then we can decide what to do because right now the only thing that is going to happen is we are going to end up with more crappily designed roads and a transit system that pleases no one. Trust me, I've lived here my entire life and no one who has lived here for awhile would dispute that prediction. :(

[MichaelS]

Too bad we've had a history of basing our planning on the city never continuing it's success. It's time for a whole new planning department and a new transportation department. Then we can decide what to do because right now the only thing that is going to happen is we are going to end up with more crappily designed roads and a transit system that pleases no one. Trust me, I've lived here my entire life and no one who has lived here for awhile would dispute that prediction. :(

I can assure you that the people (engineers, planners, etc.) working in the Transportation Department of the city are some of the most competent, professional people in the industry. Even the ones that have been there for 20+ years. In fact, especially them. I know this because I am an engineer with the City's transportation Department. The problem is that adminstration does not always have the final say on what gets built.


"Despite recommendations from the city's traffic engineers, some aldermen see no
need to tie 90th Avenue S.W. or Southland Drive to the ring road.

Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart says the two road connectors are a waste of money that
won't make a bit of difference. Ald. Barry Erskine, on the other hand, fears the roads
will be flooded with traffic to a proposed business park on the Tsuu T'ina reserve."

This is a classic example of one the biggest frustrations some city employees face. I find it baffling that an alderman with no real expertise feels that she can be correct, despite being against the opinions of many experienced, intelligent professionals who have made a career out of studying and knowing the subject.

[Boris2k7]

I can assure you that the people (engineers, planners, etc.) working in the Transportation Department of the city are some of the most competent, professional people in the industry. Even the ones that have been there for 20+ years. In fact, especially them. I know this because I am an engineer with the City's transportation Department. The problem is that adminstration does not always have the final say on what gets built.

This is a classic example of one the biggest frustrations some city employees face. I find it baffling that an alderman with no real expertise feels that she can be correct, despite being against the opinions of many experienced, intelligent professionals who have made a career out of studying and knowing the subject.

I have no doubts that the engineers working for Transportation are quite competetent and professional. However, it is the job of the Alderman to set the direction the city wants to go, and the job of administration to inform and make that decision possible. There are FAR too many people in the transportation department who only think in terms of traffic flow and the movement of automobiles, similar to how the Parks department has a fixation on increasing the size of their inventory. What gets at me is how there is no dialogue at all between land use &planning and transportation, despite how closely intertwined they are.

[You Need A Thneed]

Has anyone else gone in to vote yet? I got mine in at about 10:30, because I was showing the trades at our house what to do this morning, so I stopped by quickly to vote on my way to work.

[Boris2k7]

Has anyone else gone in to vote yet? I got mine in at about 10:30, because I was showing the trades at our house what to do this morning, so I stopped by quickly to vote on my way to work.

I'm going to vote on my way home. There's a church near my place that is right beside a bus stop. Too bad there isn't anyone running against C-U, I want to give her a swift kick in the arse right about now.

Alas, the candidates for CBE Trustee in Wards 11&13 seem to be a bunch of nobodies with vague policies. Guess I'll vote for the one that mentioned ESL and other programs of that nature.