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craneSpotter

09-21-2007, 03:55 PM

Kathryn Young, CanWest News Service
Published: Friday, September 21, 2007

Victoria has the greenest urban transportation practices in Canada, followed closely by Vancouver, Ottawa-Gatineau, and Winnipeg. But none of the 27 cities surveyed received an ‘A’ on their report card, says a study to be released today.

While the top cities received Bs, six others got Fs – St. John’s, N.L. (ranked 27th), Sudbury, Ont., Moncton, N.B., Barrie, Ont., and St. Catharines-Niagara, Ont.

“It’s amazing how many shades of green there are in this country,” said Toronto international trade lawyer Barry Appleton, whose private Appleton Charitable Foundation funded the study, conducted in co-operation with the University of British Columbia’s business school.

Toronto and Montreal tied for fifth in the ranking, which examined 17 factors, including public transit ridership, number of vehicles per capita, number of hybrid or alternative-fuel vehicles in public transit and municipal fleets, policies such as anti-idling and trip-reduction programs, new housing density, greenhouse gas emissions, employer-sponsored eco-transit pass programs and hybrid taxis.

“We set a 10-year achievable target as to where every city could be at and none of them were able to make their target at this point, so none of them got an A,” said Appleton.

“That which gets measured gets done,” said Daniel Muzyka, dean of UBC’s Sauder School of Business. “There’s really room for improvement across the board. They’re tough graders,” he said about the study’s panel of experts that included economists, climatologists, urban designers, architects and transportation planners.

And why the failures?

“What gives them all F grades is they’re really not making efforts,” Appleton said, pointing to St. John’s program called STEER – Smart Taxis Encouraging Environmental Respect.

“Great name but when I look at the number of hybrid or alternative fuel taxis in the fleet,” he said. “ Zero.”

The low grades are not simply a function of city size, since the study assessed the various factors on a per-capita basis, although larger cities can take advantage of economies of scale. However, size doesn’t stop any city from taking action on housing density, anti-idling, transit passes, hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles or free downtown transit, the report said.

“We think the public should know how the cities perform,” said James Tansey, who teaches business ethics at the business school. The study should encourage municipalities to improve by giving them examples of best practices in other cities.

Calgary and Edmonton both received Ds for their heavy use of cars, urban sprawl and high carbon emissions. Calgary has the highest level of vehicle ownership in Canada, and a great climate change action plan that hasn’t been acted upon. Edmonton can improve by putting more of its Environmental Strategic Plan into effect.

Winnipeg came fourth because it has free transit in the downtown core and affordable transit passes. About 26 per cent of taxis are hybrids — the second highest city after Victoria. Winnipeg also boasts relatively low carbon emissions and vehicle ownership.

Regina and Saskatoon tied for 20th spot and D grades because of low density, negligible employer transit passes, and few hybrid or alternative-fuel vehicles.

The 27 cities studied represent two-thirds of Canada’s population and 77 per cent of the urban population.

“Both Vancouver and Victoria really did well because not only did they announce policies, they actually did something about it,” Appleton said.

About 30 per cent of Victoria’s taxis are hybrids and 36 per cent of its municipal vehicles use alternative fuels. Carbon emissions and ozone levels are among the best. High housing density means transit systems can be more cost effective, and 61 per cent of Victoria’s housing starts are rowhouses and apartments, compared with the average of 39 per cent across the 27 cities.

Vancouver also has better air quality, hybrid taxis, and 66 per cent high-density housing starts, but fell behind Victoria on the number of people who walk, bike or take the bus to work.

Ottawa-Gatineau did well because 25 per cent of workers don’t drive to work, and it has employer-sponsored eco-transit passes, anti-idling bylaws and 48 per cent high-density housing starts. However the region lost points because it has zero hybrid taxis, for example.

“Ontario cities didn’t do so well,” Appleton said, pointing to Windsor, London and Kitchener that are affected by pollution from the Ohio Valley.

Toronto benefits from the lowest number of cars per capita, and high transit use, high density and anti-idling bylaws. Montreal took top honours for housing density and number of people walking, biking or taking transit to work.

© CanWest News Service 2007

vid

09-21-2007, 04:16 PM

"public transit ridership"

Quite low (about 9,000 per day but increasing)

"number of vehicles per capita"

If they mean private vehicles, that's probably high, fed mostly by isolation. If they're talking about public vehicles, I would say it's at or close to average. We have 50 buses and about 100 taxis.

"number of hybrid or alternative-fuel vehicles in public transit and municipal fleets"

Several buses are on biodiesel and all buses will likely be on it by the end of 2008. The city is starting to use hybrids and alternative fuels, and no longer has any hummers in their fleet!

"policies such as anti-idling"

They have both an anti-idling policy for city vehicles and a by-law for private ones, and buses are outfitted with devices that turn them off after five minutes of being idle. (Which causes problems at the bus terminals, as they'll turn off just seconds before they have to start going again.)

"trip-reduction programs"

None that I know of, and the way their routes are laid out, you could go as much as 20Km to go just 1km down a street. They are "working on that".

"new housing density"

Still mostly singles in the suburbs but new, denser urban developments are starting. The city's zoning by-laws prohibit high density development more than 150m from bus routes, and requires bus routes to go through any "high density" areas.

"greenhouse gas emissions"

Probably high but going down.

"employer-sponsored eco-transit pass programs"

None that I know of.

"hybrid taxis."

A couple, with numbers increasing every year. No by-laws regarding this, however.

I'd give us a C-. Maybe even a D or D+. Below average, anyway.

ReginaGuy

09-21-2007, 04:22 PM

Regina and Saskatoon tied for 20th spot and D grades because of low density, negligible employer transit passes, and few hybrid or alternative-fuel vehicles.

um?..

Regina is denser than Winnipeg, how do we have low density? I agree our transit sucks, but we have a pretty amazing density for our population

SteelTown

09-21-2007, 04:38 PM

Guess Hamilton was ignored....Hamilton new buses are all hybrid and has anti-idling bylaw. Students get free public transit (part of student fee), just flash a student card. Plus employees at Hamilton Health Sciences get discounts on public transit.

Also just this month all buses got bike racks installed.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/HSR%20Hybrid%20Intro/IMG_0177.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/HSR%20Hybrid%20Intro/IMG_0174.jpg

feepa

09-21-2007, 04:44 PM

um?..

Regina is denser than Winnipeg, how do we have low density? I agree our transit sucks, but we have a pretty amazing density for our population

Regina is? Really? No... Really?

ReginaGuy

09-21-2007, 04:51 PM

Regina is? Really? No... Really?

Denser than Edmonton, too :frog:

vid

09-21-2007, 04:53 PM

Metro population densities:

Edmonton: 109.9/km2
Regina: 57.2/km2
Winnipeg: 131.0/km2

Urban population densities:

Edmonton: 1,009.4/km2
Regina: 1507.9/km2
Winnipeg: 1,428.9/km2

Municipal population densities:

Edmonton: 1,067.2/km2
Regina: 1,507.9/km2
Winnipeg: 1,365.2/km2

Source: StatsCan

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=4811061&Geo2=PR&Code2=48&Data=Count&SearchText=edmonton&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=705__&Geo2=PR&Code2=47&Data=Count&SearchText=regina&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=602__&Geo2=PR&Code2=46&Data=Count&SearchText=winnipeg&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/popdwell/Table.cfm?T=801&PR=0&SR=1&S=3&O=D

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=835__&Geo2=PR&Code2=48&Data=Count&SearchText=edmonton&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=4706027&Geo2=PR&Code2=47&Data=Count&SearchText=regina&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=4611040&Geo2=PR&Code2=46&Data=Count&SearchText=winnipeg&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=

ReginaGuy

09-21-2007, 04:55 PM

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/HSR%20Hybrid%20Intro/IMG_0177.jpg

nice, but you guys should really narrow down the route-location descriptions

craneSpotter

09-21-2007, 04:56 PM

um?..

Regina is denser than Winnipeg, how do we have low density? I agree our transit sucks, but we have a pretty amazing density for our population

Not really - http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/profiles/community/

for example:

Regina CMA:
Single detached houses - as a % of total occupied private dwellings 68.6

Winnipeg CMA:
Single detached houses - as a % of total occupied private dwellings 61.8

Victoria CMA (for comparison):
Single detached houses - as a % of total occupied private dwellings 42.5

craneSpotter

09-21-2007, 05:04 PM

Wishblade

09-21-2007, 05:09 PM

vid

09-21-2007, 05:16 PM

craneSpotter

09-21-2007, 05:25 PM

Thunder Bay doesn't have bike racks. I can't figure it out, either. We're all hills. :shrug: Duluth has bike racks. They've had them for decades. We have the university and college passes but nothing for any other sectors.

@crane: Thunder Bay is 65.4% single detached houses. Are we denser than Regina?

No. The TB CMA is 68.3% single detached houses as a % of total housing, so your density on residential developed land is poor, but about the same as Regina. I guess TB has some large industrial areas and/or green areas to give it such low population density for the metro?

Nobody lives on Industrial land (or green-space for that matter), but it can take up a significant % of the urban land area used to calculate population densities - see Edmonton for this effect for instance.

Land Area:
Land area refers to the area in square kilometers of the land-based portions of the census geographic areas. Land area is manually calculated using a digital planimeter and paper maps. Only discernible bodies of water found on the maps are excluded.

flar

09-21-2007, 05:35 PM

nice, but you guys should really narrow down the route-location descriptions

:haha:

Kevin_foster

09-21-2007, 05:47 PM

I agree with what they say about Edmonton. We could do alot better - the main thing is to scrap our current buses for hybrids and keep extending our LRT.

We ARE intensively expanding our LRT system, but there are still lots of people against it & would rather see better highways built.

Also, I've always wondered that perhaps there should be some sort of incentive for families to only have one car per household (or none at all!)? I know it's far fetched and would take work, but I'm sure 80% of the families in this city have 2+ cars. AFAIK the Federal Grants program only extends to those who purchase certain vehicles (i.e. Diesels & Hybrids) - maybe extend this to those who buy bikes and bus passes instead :). If I had some monetary incentive (besides the gas and maintenance savings) to get rid of our second car... I probably would consider it.

But for Edmonton, my best choice would be to increase the LRT system. Do it now and make it accessible for more people.

Also more bike lanes would help as well :)

SteelTown

09-21-2007, 05:57 PM

Only Hamilton, Burlington and Toronto have bike racks on buses in the Golden Horseshoe region. I'm not sure about others in Southern Ontario.

SteelTown

09-21-2007, 06:03 PM

nice, but you guys should really narrow down the route-location descriptions

lol

That was the unveiling of the new hybrid buses. MPs and MPPs we're invited because the new hybrid buses were funded through the help of the gas taxes. That's why it says Canada on the description.....Government of Canada.

vid

09-21-2007, 06:36 PM

No. The TB CMA is 68.3% single detached houses as a % of total housing, so your density on residential developed land is poor, but about the same as Regina. I guess TB has some large industrial areas and/or green areas to give it such low population density for the metro?

Almost 45% of Thunder Bay's "urban area" is bush. Not parkland, but actual bush. Never-was-anything and never-going-to-be-anything bush. It includes a protected swamp and forest, both of which are inaccessible to people! Tracts 22.02 and 23.02 haven't been cut up to separate their built up and rural/non built up areas for some reason. We have an entire sub division of almost 6,000 people included in a large rural tract.

I think the reason they include them is because the master plan from the 1980s to 1990s included large subdivision developments north of the Airport and north of Wardrope. The former is only 4% complete and the latter was cancelled. They still include those areas, but why? There is nothing there. Literally.

ReginaGuy

09-21-2007, 06:37 PM

Those numbers you show are also dependent on how much greenspace the city has in its urban land area. That is why, I think, the study looked at the % of families that lived in single family detached housing and also how many new housing starts were multiple-family. This measures how efficiently the CMA's are using their available building land space. Also, green space = good.

To add to your data above, the Edmonton CMA has only 58.6% Single detached houses - as a % of total occupied private dwellings - best for the prairie metros actually.

Oh, I didn't realise that's what they used to measure the density. But still, they should have said "percentage of single-family homes", not density, they're not the same thing.

And Regina has a butt load of green space (supposedly most per capita in the country), so I don't think that would effect the density too much. Maybe it has something to do with the amount of urban holdings in each city. Winnipeg might just own more land on the outskirts of the city for future development, because that land is factored into the density

matt602

09-21-2007, 07:21 PM

Only Hamilton, Burlington and Toronto have bike racks on buses in the Golden Horseshoe region. I'm not sure about others in Southern Ontario.

I'm fairly certain theres more than that. Possibly St. Catherines, London or K/W.

vid

09-21-2007, 07:41 PM

Don't Peterborough and Ottawa have them?

jeremy_haak

09-21-2007, 10:28 PM

I'm fairly certain theres more than that. Possibly St. Catherines, London or K/W.

I know GRT in KW has bike racks on almost every single bus. I believe Ottawa has a bike rack program as well, though I'm not sure how extensive it is.

Cambridgite

09-21-2007, 11:12 PM

“Ontario cities didn’t do so well,” Appleton said, pointing to Windsor, London and Kitchener that are affected by pollution from the Ohio Valley."

How does pollution from the Ohio Valley have anything to do with transit? :koko:

1ajs

09-21-2007, 11:20 PM

wait wtf how did winnipeg rank number 4 with just a bus system?

DAVEinEDMONTON

09-22-2007, 01:44 AM

wait wtf how did winnipeg rank number 4 with just a bus system?

I found that fact odd as well but more than that cities like Calgary and Edmonton get a "D". Given that Calgary has a very extensive train system and Edmonton is working on it and the fact that Edmonton still maintains lots of trolley busses which are enviro-friendly, one would think that would matter more in the rankings. However, it seems that expending hundreds of millions to put light rail systems in place would get some serious weight...if you look at the list of parameters for the rankings it does not seem like they looked at all the issues...

1ajs

09-22-2007, 01:46 AM

[

I found that fact odd as well but more than that cities like Calgary and Edmonton get a "D". Given that Calgary has a very extensive train system and Edmonton is working on it and the fact that Edmonton still maintains lots of trolley busses which are enviro-friendly, one would think that would matter more in the rankings. However, it seems that expending hundreds of millions to put light rail systems in place would get some serious weight...if you look at the list of parameters for the rankings it does not seem like they looked at all the issues...[/quote]

i think they were looking at more then just that... not just rapid transit but other forums also gues urban sprawl has alot to do with this

LordMandeep

09-22-2007, 02:06 AM

to me the only reason why Montreal and Toronto got high marks, is because the transit there moves so many people that if they all drove it would cause even more pollution.

WaterlooInvestor

09-22-2007, 11:10 AM

I'm fairly certain theres more than that. Possibly St. Catherines, London or K/W.

Correct. There's been a bike program in place for a few years in the Region of Waterloo, with racks now on all buses.

http://www.grt.ca/web/transit.nsf/5f22897663adffc585256e5a005c53df/6a24334e452b5d7385256c2500685aea/Body/0.A6!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

http://www.grt.ca/web/transit.nsf/5f22897663adffc585256e5a005c53df/05437d68a61ccf7c85256b52005fd7bc/Body/0.84!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

softee

09-22-2007, 11:56 AM

Wow, the city of North Bay is only 48.2% single family houses and the CA is 54.1%, how about that?

vid

09-22-2007, 06:09 PM

There's a Ziggy's in Kitchener too? They're really enterprising aren't they? :)

the dude

09-22-2007, 07:51 PM

Almost 45% of Thunder Bay's "urban area" is bush. Not parkland, but actual bush. Never-was-anything and never-going-to-be-anything bush.

i spent 2 years in residence at lakehead u and i can vouch for the massive amount of bush in tbay. it was never ending. sweet, sweet bush.

Greco Roman

09-22-2007, 11:03 PM

i spent 2 years in residence at lakehead u and i can vouch for the massive amount of bush in tbay. it was never ending. sweet, sweet bush.

This is the quote of the day :cheers:

vid

09-22-2007, 11:24 PM

We love our bush. We like to shave patterns in it.

Architype

09-23-2007, 12:02 AM

Here are the actual rankings:

GreenApple Canada Rankings

1. Victoria
2. Vancouver
3. Ottawa-Gatineau
4. Winnipeg
5. Montreal
5. Toronto
7. Sherbrooke
7. Hamilton
9. Quebec
10. Kingston
11. Halifax
11. London
13. Saguenay
14. Abbotsford
14. Kelowna
16. Kitchener
16. Calgary
18. Windsor
19. Edmonton
20. Saskatoon
20. Regina
20. Oshawa
23. St. Catharines-Niagara
24. Barrie
24. Moncton
26. Greater Sudbury/Grand Sudbury
27. St. John's

Article at:
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2007/21/c3685.html

Cambridgite

09-23-2007, 12:07 AM

We love our bush. We like to shave patterns in it.

Does TBay keep its bush well-trimmed?

Xelebes

09-23-2007, 12:11 AM

i spent 2 years in residence at lakehead u and i can vouch for the massive amount of bush in tbay. it was never ending. sweet, sweet bush.

I saw the sickest ad for Lakehead University. I thought the ad was saying something about preventing homelessness and poverty by doing something, only to realise it was a Lakehead ad if you squinted at it really closely. They need new marketing agents fast.

vid

09-23-2007, 12:16 AM

^It's not as good as Yale Shmale, I'll admit that. Between Yale Shmale, the Wi-Fi incident, and this recent campaign, I have to admit, that LU is good at stirring up controversy. But hey, any publicity is good publicity in the twisted world of mis-understood academia.

If only they could elect their president.

Does TBay keep its bush well-trimmed?

We shave it off in 20 acre squares and sell it to Americans. :)

matt602

09-23-2007, 04:09 AM

Hm, I'm surprised Hamilton did so well on the list. Gotta admire the HSR for doing so well in a city that caters so very willingly to the automobile.

SteelTown

09-23-2007, 05:04 AM

Ah so Hamilton is on the list. Good to see it on the top 7. HSR has made good positive changes over the years with more to come, rapid transit and new downtown and Eastgate terminal stations.

LeftCoaster

09-23-2007, 09:12 AM

wait wtf how did winnipeg rank number 4 with just a bus system?

Well Victoria did rank number one with just a bus system... how about that?

WaterlooInvestor

09-23-2007, 11:32 AM

Kitchener seems about right in the middle-zone. Hopefully we'll increase our ranking by a notch if a list is done next year. There's a chance since ridership should have a nice jump due to the new universal UW pass and all the service improvements (Evening & Weekend iXpress, etc..). Looking further into the future, the LRT should help. Although it's kinda weird that two LRT cities are ranked lower than us, especially since isn't Calgary's LRT powered by renewable energy??? (iirc)

There's a Ziggy's in Kitchener too? They're really enterprising aren't they? :)

This is the KW Ziggy's: http://www.ziggyscycle.ca/ . I think it's an independent store. I hadn't heard of any other locations.

vid

09-23-2007, 12:05 PM

The one in Sudbury is a gay bar. :frog:

Calgary's LRT is powered entirely by wind turbines.

WaterlooInvestor

09-23-2007, 12:20 PM

Calgary's LRT is powered entirely by wind turbines.

That's what I thought. Yet how do people explain Calgary's middle of the road ranking on a 'green transportation' list? Does it make any sense to you? It certainly doesn't to me.

jeremy_haak

09-23-2007, 01:49 PM

I think they're looking at transportation in the wider context of walkability etc. which gets into the actual physical form of the city. Transit isn't the only factor to take into account. I dunno a lot about Calgary, but LRT isn't the whole picture. Say they have a 17% modal share for transit (I don't know the numbers, that's just a rough guess), but only 3% use alternatives like walking or biking. That means that 80% are using cars (or I suppose 'others' like Segways or something). Compare that with a city that has , say 15% biking or walking, as well as high transit use. Even if the system is bus only, it's still far ahead of the first. Doesn't Victoria have the highest number of people who walk/bike? And as far as I know, Ottawa has the second lowest modal share for cars (minus passengers afaik), at around 61% if I remember correctly. Factor in the form of the city - single detached vs. townhomes vs. condominiums/apartments - as well as a host of others, and the picture is suddenly far more complicated than whether they have a good LRT or not. I'm not sure if this is true, but I've heard that the bus system beyond LRT isn't all that great in Calgary (maybe that was Edmonton, I'm not positive). Also, I know Calgary has a lot of Park'n'Rides, so does that mean a lot of people drive to use the LRT?

miketoronto

09-23-2007, 02:47 PM

Interesting rankings. I know they are looking at the whole picture, but it is amazing how high Vancouver always ranks in things like this. Yet if you look at just say transit ridership, Vancouver on a % base has one of the lowest rates of transit use of all of Canada's largest cities.

I think Calgary and Edmonton did bad in the rankings, because eventhough they have LRT, they have not done other things like limit sprawl. And eventhough transit has good ridership in Calgary, it still is really not that big a part of the city life, and the bus systems has very bad frequency, which shows the system is basically just to get people to work, and out of that, is not a big part of anyones life.

Winnipeg I am not surprised with coming up so high. People think of it as a bus only isolated city. However Winnipeg's transit use is fourth highest in Canada, after Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa.
So they are doing something right with their bus system.

Not because I live here, but if Canadian cities(and Toronto's new suburbs) followed the type of development and transit expansion like the old METRO TORONTO area mandated, then our cities would have way less pollution, cars, and traffic.

The more you look at the old METRO TORONTO(now City of Toronto) you see how advanced the suburban development laws were for that time. You got th single family homes yes. But you also got the high-rise apartments, townhomes, amazing bus service connected to rapid transit, etc.

If you look at stats, the old METRO has one of the best balanced(could be better but still good)transportation networks in North America. Something like half of people drive to work alone. And the other half do a mix of transit, walking, biking, and some car pooling. Again the use of transit could be higher, etc. But for what was built and the time it was built, and considering transit has lost some share now, I think we do good. And we are sort of a model, because no other suburban areas in Canada I think have achieved that, except for parts of suburban Montreal.

craneSpotter

09-23-2007, 04:57 PM

Calgary's LRT is powered entirely by wind turbines.

No, technically it isn't. Thats marketing hype!

Calgary's city owned utility, ENMAX, generates the approx. equivalent electricity (with its wind turbines far south of Calgary) of what the Ctrain uses on a daily basis - when the wind blows that is. However, that wind energy is added to the Alberta power pool like ALL other generated electricity such as coal. Also, wind energy is capped at 20% od the supply because it is not reliable day-to-day. So, in reality the City of Calgary and ENMAX could claim anything in the city is wind powered I guess, just pick which one looks the best from marketing - like the Ctrian!

The reality is, considering all power is pooled, the Ctrain runs on 70-80% coal generated electricity!

LFRENCH

09-23-2007, 06:32 PM

Well Victoria did rank number one with just a bus system... how about that?

a shitty one at that fact

KrisYYC

09-23-2007, 08:00 PM

I found that fact odd as well but more than that cities like Calgary and Edmonton get a "D". Given that Calgary has a very extensive train system and Edmonton is working on it and the fact that Edmonton still maintains lots of trolley busses which are enviro-friendly, one would think that would matter more in the rankings. However, it seems that expending hundreds of millions to put light rail systems in place would get some serious weight...if you look at the list of parameters for the rankings it does not seem like they looked at all the issues...

I question the D ranking too, and especially Calgary's rank on that list Architype posted. Calgary has an LRT network, transit is free downtown, the LRT is entirely WIND powered and most of our busses have bike racks too. Not to mention transit is relatively cheap.

miketoronto

09-24-2007, 01:27 AM

I question the D ranking too, and especially Calgary's rank on that list Architype posted. Calgary has an LRT network, transit is free downtown, the LRT is entirely WIND powered and most of our busses have bike racks too. Not to mention transit is relatively cheap.

That is all great. But 90% of those bus routes operate every hour or so. Hardly the great service to attract people.

Calgary and Edmonton have to try a little harder, and they will probably move up the rank.
But there is tons of room for improvment.

If the younge people of Calgary are getting the cars the min they are 16, you know transit and other alternatives is not making itself attractive enough.

1ajs

09-24-2007, 02:02 AM

calgary i can see why has used the transit system to get around the burbs kinda a pain

here in winnipeg the south end has set up of route you can call in and ask them to stop at the nearest stop to at certan times of the day http://winnipegtransit.com/main/dart.jsp kinda neat...

vid

09-24-2007, 05:08 PM

No, technically it isn't. Thats marketing hype!

Calgary's city owned utility, ENMAX, generates the approx. equivalent electricity (with its wind turbines far south of Calgary) of what the Ctrain uses on a daily basis - when the wind blows that is. However, that wind energy is added to the Alberta power pool like ALL other generated electricity such as coal. Also, wind energy is capped at 20% od the supply because it is not reliable day-to-day. So, in reality the City of Calgary and ENMAX could claim anything in the city is wind powered I guess, just pick which one looks the best from marketing - like the Ctrian!

The reality is, considering all power is pooled, the Ctrain runs on 70-80% coal generated electricity!

Well other cities don't do that. So it still works in their favour. It's like saying "My taxes paid for this!" when it's likely that, if you marked every cent you gave them, every single one will wind up at the same place. (Probably a government employees pay cheque)