westcoast604
Sep 25, 2007, 7:34 PM
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7500/ultragz1.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/495/ultrazi8.jpg
Developer: Weststone Properties
Use: Residential
Location: 10288, 10296 and 10320 - 133 Street
Anticipated Completion: 2009
Part of the "Urban Village" Community
http://www.urbanvillageliving.com/
westcoast604
Sep 25, 2007, 7:37 PM
A bit of confusion in terms of the proposed number of floors. The application submitted to the city in Dec 2006 was for a 40-Storey tower, however, the project website now advertises it as a 35-Storey tower.
danby
Sep 25, 2007, 9:56 PM
I hope it looks more like the 2nd pic rather then the 1st!
The 1st one is hideous :yuck:
westcoast604
Sep 25, 2007, 11:46 PM
They are taken from different angles. The front facade in the first pic is the side facade in the 2nd. Hard to make out the roof feature in the first one, but im sure its there.
Volksboi
Sep 26, 2007, 12:16 AM
I bought a one bedroom on the tenth floor with veiw of mt. Baker in Ultra on sunday, paid $256000 for it. I previously bought a unit in there first phase Agenda. Super excited. This is going to one up and coming development in an area you will not be able to reconize in the coming years.
giallo
Sep 26, 2007, 1:39 AM
^ What's the square footage?
Volksboi
Sep 26, 2007, 2:04 AM
585sqft
raggedy13
Sep 26, 2007, 5:38 AM
I kind of like that new first rendering - it appears to deviate in design from the typical Vancouver condo tower at least. I'll just have to wait and see it once finished though.
David
Sep 26, 2007, 6:02 AM
I like it. Simple yet interesting. Agree with the above comment that it deviates from the norm -- which is a great thing.
Volksboi
Sep 26, 2007, 3:02 PM
I agree! Take a look at the site www.urbanvillageliving.com and see the video that does a round the building veiw... Its amazing!
westcoast604
Sep 26, 2007, 7:54 PM
Interesting how many of the trees and landscaping around the building in the video are tropical! Quite a few palms.
Cypherus
Sep 27, 2007, 1:13 AM
Interesting how many of the trees and landscaping around the building in the video are tropical! Quite a few palms.
Many condo developers try to give the false impression that the West Coast is a tropical climate. A real rendering wouldn't make the building appear desirable if the building was surrounded by cloudy fog, rain, and dry-dead Surrey trees....
SpongeG
Sep 27, 2007, 1:20 AM
haha
or maybe the computer programs can render them easier
giallo
Sep 27, 2007, 2:29 AM
585sqft
Not bad at all.
Congrats on your purchase.
westcoast604
Sep 27, 2007, 6:31 AM
Interesting how many of the trees and landscaping around the building in the video are tropical! Quite a few palms.
Many condo developers try to give the false impression that the West Coast is a tropical climate. A real rendering wouldn't make the building appear desirable if the building was surrounded by cloudy fog, rain, and dry-dead Surrey trees....
True to an extent...but it could also indicate that they plan to plant trachycarpus fortunei around the building - which is very possible - as their are already some growing in the neighbourhood (library, private yards)
SpongeG
Sep 27, 2007, 6:37 AM
its funny how the video makes it look so nice
my friend lived about block away and some of the people in that area were kinda sketchy
maybe it will turn around but its not that nice
Volksboi
Sep 27, 2007, 8:55 PM
its funny how the video makes it look so nice
my friend lived about block away and some of the people in that area were kinda sketchy
maybe it will turn around but its not that nice
I know scetchy people who live in DT vancouver? Homeless people, drug addicts. No matter where you live, they will be there. I know there are more present in this area at times but if you do a bit of research, you will see that there are major plans for Central City, and see that this area will not be able to be reconized in the coming years. The urban Village is just one example of many to the area. It will have 5 towers, and a number of low rise condos with mixed retail through out connectted with water features, gardens, etc. Its going to be amazing when its finished!
Volksboi
Sep 27, 2007, 8:56 PM
Not bad at all.
Congrats on your purchase.
Thanks!
paradigm4
Sep 28, 2007, 4:31 AM
I agree as well. I like how the design of this tower is actually quite distinct from Vancouver's typical condos.
androo3
Oct 2, 2007, 5:54 PM
Hey Volksboi whats your take on the area though. Am I right to think it is west of Central City?
Volksboi
Oct 2, 2007, 7:43 PM
Hey Volksboi whats your take on the area though. Am I right to think it is west of Central City?
Yea this development is west of central city, about one block from skytrain. I have bought two units in Urban Village. One in there first phase Agenda, and now one in there High rise Ultra.
This development is going to surpase anything being built in Surrey. Its going to be a one billion dollar urban village with 5 highrise towers, and five - seven low to mid rises, mixed with commercial retail. all the buildings will be connected with pathways throughout the property with gardens and water features.
If you are thinking about investing in Central City now is the time. Condo's are still cheaper here then anywhere else, and this area is going to change so much you wont be able to reconize it.
The area its self is still a bit rough not as bad as it used to be, but as all these new developments open up, you will see things start to disapate and no longer be a problem. But ask anyone who grew up in whalley if things have changed and cleaned up already and they will say yes.. and this is just the begining.
SpongeG
Oct 2, 2007, 10:31 PM
I know scetchy people who live in DT vancouver? Homeless people, drug addicts. No matter where you live, they will be there. I know there are more present in this area at times but if you do a bit of research, you will see that there are major plans for Central City, and see that this area will not be able to be reconized in the coming years. The urban Village is just one example of many to the area. It will have 5 towers, and a number of low rise condos with mixed retail through out connectted with water features, gardens, etc. Its going to be amazing when its finished!
i know that dear
its still surrey and its never been a nice area - but i am sure it will turn around in 10-20 years
Volksboi
Oct 2, 2007, 11:25 PM
i know that dear
its still surrey and its never been a nice area - but i am sure it will turn around in 10-20 years
lol where do you live? The reason I ask is because surrey is a big city in which I grew up in, yes it has its problem areas but you can not brand all of surrey bad because of some bad pockets. you say 10-20 years, I say 5-10...as do the thousands apon thousands of investors currently investing in Central City. But each to there own!
Cheers
androo3
Oct 3, 2007, 5:32 AM
You know I totally agree with you but I am looking more at Gateway over Central City eventhough it is deeper in to whalley.
Calgarian
Oct 3, 2007, 5:44 AM
Another solid proposal for Surrey, you guys should have a pretty decent skyline in a few years.
Volksboi
Oct 3, 2007, 5:51 AM
You know I totally agree with you but I am looking more at Gateway over Central City eventhough it is deeper in to whalley.
Ultra is only two blocks from CityPoint....go on the city of surreys website and translinks website and see where there focus area is. it starts are the central city tower and goes out from there. If you going to invest, the closer you are to there the better the return.
CC420
Dec 30, 2007, 11:01 PM
The crane for Ultra is set up. If anyone is in Surrey and wants an idea of where Ultra will be, just look for the yellow crane. I'll try and get a few shots of the site within a couple weeks as I finally got a digital camera. :banana:
Dylan Leblanc
Dec 30, 2007, 11:50 PM
Ultra's the one furthest to the left, isn't it?
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g296/raggedy13/surrey.jpg
giallo
Dec 31, 2007, 2:03 AM
This will be the tallest outside of Vancouver, no?
Lead
Dec 31, 2007, 5:26 AM
^ I believe for now, until Sky Towers that is. I've seen the crane so shouldn't this be changed to u/c?
Volksboi
Dec 31, 2007, 5:40 AM
I will be in that area tomorrow and I will get some pics. the crane that just went up with to start off phase one and two ( Agenda and Element ) and they just started clearing all the land for Ultra. and yes it will be the tallest tower outside of vancouver untill sky tower is complete.. but this development has a few surprises up its sleave that will over shadow sky towers... keep your eyes open for it :)
Volksboi
Dec 31, 2007, 5:42 AM
and i mean future phases.....
PitBoss
Jan 6, 2008, 9:08 AM
Just FYI I have spoken with the developer and Ultra (due to its grade elevation) will be the highest tower in Surrey. Their future planned 42 storey tower in Urban Village will beat anything outside of Vancouver hands down. This location is now being branded as the University District by the City of Surrey and it looks like it will be the hub. We all know what happens with university properties...........huge premiums, so you made a great buy Volsboi, it certainly overshadows the rest, well done. Also interesting to hear from the developer that they sell their own product without realtors and they are really on top of their construction costs. They held back units to release later (no fast sell outs) so they can guarentee to produce a first class finished product (no returned deposits). They received huge accolades from the Canadian Homebuilders Association for their marketing strategy. Nice to hear of a solid developer. I also learned that they are the third largest builder in Arizona.
Volksboi
Jan 6, 2008, 9:34 PM
And thats why I bought with confidence! Cant wait to get into the first place! and see all the furture phases.
CC420
Jan 7, 2008, 12:27 AM
What is this? Surrey actually has an honest developer building something in this city? Am I in the Twilight Zone? ;)
SFUVancouver
Jan 7, 2008, 10:44 PM
The wild thing about Westone (the developer of Ultra, et al.) is that it is headed by a guy still in his 20s. Makes me feel a little inadequate I must say.
Volksboi
Jan 14, 2008, 11:16 PM
As promised, sorry for the delay...
This is the Agenda, Element and Ultra site. Currently under construction is Agenda and Element.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture229.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture230.jpg
Below is the Ultra site, the houses have been torn down and they have started to clear the land.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture233.jpg
The Urban Village is a HUGE project and sits on a large peace of land. This picture is taken from 104, looking towards 102 where the property ends.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture234.jpg
These pictures are from a few weeks ago, I will be back in a couple weeks with some new pics!
SFUVancouver
Jan 15, 2008, 1:49 AM
Thanks!
Is Ultra still at the proposal stage or has it been approved?
giallo
Jan 15, 2008, 1:56 AM
Great updates. Thanks.
excel
Jan 15, 2008, 2:00 AM
Nice pictures thanks.
Volksboi
Jan 15, 2008, 6:50 AM
Thanks! Ultra is approved...And should be starting soon!! really excited..I will keep the pictures coming...If you guys want any other pics of any other projects let me know.
Mike K.
Jan 27, 2008, 6:40 PM
Volksboi, thanks for the offer.
If you can snap photos of any projects from the burbs that'd be great. I'm always interesting in keepings tabs with progress.
Volksboi
Feb 20, 2008, 12:35 AM
New Pics today!
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture610.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture608.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture606.jpg
officedweller
Feb 20, 2008, 1:05 AM
Nice!
LeftCoaster
Feb 20, 2008, 1:06 AM
Thanks for the pics... doesn't look like much underground parking there... is there some above ground or something?
Also any ideas on the actual height of this one?
Volksboi
Feb 20, 2008, 7:30 AM
thats not the tower, this if for Agenda which is the first phase of three. Ultra is the third phase...on this condo, there is two levels of underground parking and it is only 4 storys.. when you look at the first picture, you will see a bunch of trees in the back ground.. that is where Ultra is going, well a bit to the left of it....
mr.x
Feb 20, 2008, 7:32 AM
how tall (metres) is this tower?
monaliza
Apr 5, 2008, 7:56 PM
I bought a one bedroom on the tenth floor with veiw of mt. Baker in Ultra on sunday, paid $256000 for it. I previously bought a unit in there first phase Agenda. Super excited. This is going to one up and coming development in an area you will not be able to reconize in the coming years.
Hold on a sec!! How come I bought one for much more money?? I feel bad now!! I got one 1bdr for 350,000!! Which plan did u get?
Volksboi
Apr 5, 2008, 9:15 PM
Hold on a sec!! How come I bought one for much more money?? I feel bad now!! I got one 1bdr for 350,000!! Which plan did u get?
No need to feel bad, you probaly have a larger 1 bedroom then me and on a higher floor. When you hear what they have planned for the area and this development you will not have any problem paying what you did for your unit.
jhausner
Apr 8, 2008, 6:42 PM
Yes my guess would be the floor your 1 bdr is on. When I went to the first opening for the Ultra tower they were stating somewhere around +$3000 of base price per floor. So if you purchased a place on the 20th floor, you'd expect to pay $60,000 more than the same unit on the 1st floor. If that isn't the case, then I'd have no clue why you would be paying $100k more than Volks.
SpongeG
Apr 13, 2008, 6:55 AM
xxxx
Lead
Apr 13, 2008, 8:42 AM
^ That isn't Ultra, it's Infinity tower 2...
Volksboi
Apr 13, 2008, 2:08 PM
heres the corner coming on nicely
is it gonna be retail?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/spongeg/DSC00191.jpg
hahah yea I was going to say....wrong thread....I wish ultra was that far so far lol...
SpongeG
Apr 13, 2008, 8:12 PM
lol my bad
i really have no idea whats what in surrey
Volksboi
Apr 13, 2008, 9:27 PM
I know, there is alot going on there...
jhausner
Apr 18, 2008, 7:05 PM
how tall (metres) is this tower?
March 31st Dev Permit application says 102 metres.
paradigm4
May 26, 2008, 2:33 AM
Took some new pics the other day during a photobike. You can see my whole collection of Whalley development photos here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/paradigm4/collections/72157603977764948/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2522259251_e55aee069d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/2523084870_4863304965.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3015/2523089208_38882dce84.jpg
skymaster
Jul 24, 2008, 6:14 AM
I'm curious on how they are going to fit 40 stories into a 100m tower. If they do somehow the floor plates must be very, very, very small.
Hong Kongese
Jul 24, 2008, 6:17 AM
That's OK! Asian are short and tiny anyway.:D
bdigital
Jul 24, 2008, 5:17 PM
This is my first post and I love to hear about new developments in Metro Vancouver. As a real estate professional and investor this site is awesome!
Anyways, as far as the Urban Village goes I heard the next tower will be taller than Sky Towers, and the last 2-3 three towers (total of 4-5 towers) to be progressively taller probably 50+ storeys. Also, I've been told that 103A Avenue will eventually connect 132nd street and king george highway with street level retail along the entire street. But I figure this won't happen for at least 5 years until the central city transit village construction finally commences (has anybody heard anything about timing of transit village?) Also, old Stardust site beside old AB Sound has been listed at $10Million...craziness in central city!!!
Lead
Jul 24, 2008, 7:51 PM
I heard awhile ago for a radio ad for this tower that it was 35 stories so that could explain the height.
Volksboi
Jul 24, 2008, 10:04 PM
Yea its only 35 stories
SFUVancouver
Jul 26, 2008, 2:11 AM
This is my first post and I love to hear about new developments in Metro Vancouver. As a real estate professional and investor this site is awesome!
Anyways, as far as the Urban Village goes I heard the next tower will be taller than Sky Towers, and the last 2-3 three towers (total of 4-5 towers) to be progressively taller probably 50+ storeys. Also, I've been told that 103A Avenue will eventually connect 132nd street and king george highway with street level retail along the entire street. But I figure this won't happen for at least 5 years until the central city transit village construction finally commences (has anybody heard anything about timing of transit village?) Also, old Stardust site beside old AB Sound has been listed at $10Million...craziness in central city!!!
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info on the Stardust site.
jhausner
Jul 26, 2008, 5:38 AM
Yes the tower was originally advertised as being 40 floors and claimed tallest in Surrey (due to the height of the land in Central City) but was reduced down to 35 floors in the final design and development permit.
Thus why the 102m. It's basically on par with the Infinity Towers for height.
Great to hear about the other towers in the works. Through the grape vine I've heard inklings of multiple large scale towers for Central Surrey especially around the main core and a few numbers were 50 and 56 floors high. I'll believe it when I see it but the prospect is interesting.
I know Ultra or rather the entire Urban Village project called for at least 3 more towers. Will be interesting to see what the next phase will be.
Volksboi
Aug 12, 2008, 10:38 PM
Heres some new shots from The Urban Village - Agenda
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture1076.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture1079.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture1081.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/volksboi/Picture1082.jpg
The steele framing at the end of the left side of the building will be the buildings two story amenity space.
paradigm4
Sep 19, 2008, 6:44 AM
Some panos I made
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2863685334_b6156ba72c_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3085/2863687016_8016cf01e1_b.jpg
paradigm4
Sep 20, 2008, 10:57 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2869884974_bbeb5ee2fe.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2869056477_5edcafdb0f.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/2869883158_b139a125dd.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2869072165_32bf99f0a2.jpg
Volksboi
Oct 14, 2008, 11:24 PM
Digging has begun on the Ultra Site now, I will throw a picture up at some point today...
monaliza
Dec 5, 2008, 9:45 AM
Digging has begun on the Ultra Site now, I will throw a picture up at some point today...
Hey Volksboi, As far as I know they should keep us(buyers) updated and let us know that they have started digging . I have not recieved any news from them. Howabout you?
I am out of town is not easy for me to followup. I appreciate if you give me some news about ultra.
Cheers,
Volksboi
Dec 5, 2008, 3:01 PM
Hey Volksboi, As far as I know they should keep us(buyers) updated and let us know that they have started digging . I have not recieved any news from them. Howabout you?
I am out of town is not easy for me to followup. I appreciate if you give me some news about ultra.
Cheers,
Hey so I was wrong, they have not begun digging...They where using some of the land for fill on the first two phases. Digging should start soon though..I will keep you posted as I go out to the site about once a week.
monaliza
Dec 5, 2008, 4:25 PM
Hey so I was wrong, they have not begun digging...They where using some of the land for fill on the first two phases. Digging should start soon though..I will keep you posted as I go out to the site about once a week.
Thank you very much for the quick respond. Well, to be honest I got a bit worried that they have not started yet.Somehow, I am worried that on the other side its not gonna be ready on time!Well it seems like it to me...
I had bought another one of these pre sale condos in coquitlam few years ago, and they were very much ontime and keep sending me letters and keeping me updated and ...Maybe thats why I am spoild by them!:D
Hopefully I receieve a mail from them with good news too...Or from you even earlier;)
Volksboi
Dec 5, 2008, 4:40 PM
There first two phases are on track and coming along very quickly and we should start seeing some activity on Ultra soon. Once I see anything I will snap some pics and post them in her for you.
Metro-One
Dec 5, 2008, 8:33 PM
So it 102 meter the height of the tower with 35 floors, or the old height of 40?
Volksboi
Dec 5, 2008, 9:55 PM
Im not too sure, I will ask the Developer...Or it should be in my contract I assume...I will take a look.
monaliza
Jan 2, 2009, 11:29 AM
Any news yet? Its reaaly getting late, I would say!
Whalleyboy
Jan 2, 2009, 11:50 AM
I always thought this tower was suppost to be 38? not 40 or 35
Volksboi
Jan 2, 2009, 3:02 PM
It is a 35 story tower that should be starting soon.
Whalleyboy
Jan 3, 2009, 12:58 AM
yeah i just checked it out at there sites and found it saying 35 on it and i also saw some other pictures i havent seen for it there pretty good looking street level renders
Diet Butcher
Jan 27, 2009, 5:30 PM
Any updates on this project? Have they started digging yet?
Whalleyboy
Jan 28, 2009, 12:19 PM
Once again more photos from the same site i've been getting them
http://www.civicsurrey.com/
also that site says:
The Element and Agenda Phases are nearly complete. Ultra, the tower, is not yet under construction.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3231513481_1ca71d5712.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/3231505049_491cb5f0aa.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3231515441_b45d8c5709.jpg?v=0
monaliza
Feb 2, 2009, 12:35 PM
Any updates on this project? Have they started digging yet?
Hello Diet,
I am also wondering if there is any news with Ultra! If you got any plz let me know too. Thanks,
monaliza
Feb 16, 2009, 8:31 AM
Any updates on this project? Have they started digging yet?
Plz also let me know, if you got any news!?
Thanks,
M.
monaliza
Feb 23, 2009, 8:38 PM
Any updates on this project? Have they started digging yet?
They havent even finalized the finance yet!
osirisboy
Feb 23, 2009, 9:24 PM
hmm maybe the title should be changed to approved not U/C
Volksboi
Feb 23, 2009, 11:42 PM
Yea the title needs to be changed a bit because this is a multiphase project. So far phase 1 and 2 are close to completion and phase 3 is approved and it looks like they are just waiting for the market to correct a bit before they start. I bought one in phase 1 (Agenda) and phase 3 (Ultra) and know enough about the industry not to get completely freaked out that the 3rd phase has been delayed a bit. They also have several other phases they are planning on this property too.
Monaliza did you buy as an investment or to live in?
Whalleyboy
Apr 10, 2009, 3:28 AM
images are from my photobucket but i got them from
http://www.cotterarchitects.com/
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/whalley_boy/fullplans.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/whalley_boy/fullplans2.jpg
metroXpress
Apr 10, 2009, 2:29 PM
^ Thanks for the renderings
Whalleyboy
Apr 10, 2009, 7:53 PM
I'm quite impressed with the full plan for that area
Metro-One
Apr 10, 2009, 8:28 PM
But how close are any of these towers to reality (breaking ground)?
surrey1
Apr 10, 2009, 9:44 PM
But how close are any of these towers to reality (breaking ground)?
the only tower that went on sale was ultra, but unfortunately because of the downturn it is probably delayed. i believe this project was introduced in 2005 or early 2006, but they decided to build the 2 four story condos first and spent the boom years working on those.
the city needs to stop allowing these 4 story condos from being built as the first phase of large scale projects. they should force the developers to build the towers first, and after that thay can build these 4 story jokes all they want. so many projects have been delayed for years because of these ridiculous 4 story condos. look at 'd'cor .. it was first introduced back in 2002 or 2003 i believe, they spent years making 2 four story condos, and only now are they completing a 20 story tower 6 or 7 yeas after it was announced. and they cancelled the remaining tower plans and sold the land to the city.
had these developers built ultra first back in 07 it would probably be complete by now. instead we got to wait for many years for these projects to be built because the city keeps allowing these shitty 4 story waste of prime real estate condos to be built.
Whalleyboy
Apr 10, 2009, 9:52 PM
ultra is on hold right now
metroXpress
Apr 10, 2009, 10:04 PM
ultra is on hold right now
No......:yuck:
Volksboi
Apr 10, 2009, 10:19 PM
ultra is on hold right now
Ultra is not on hold ;)
metroXpress
Apr 10, 2009, 10:29 PM
Ultra is not on hold ;)
Yes......:rolleyes:
Whalleyboy
Apr 10, 2009, 10:50 PM
its not on a major hold. Its what they told me when i went to the place in central a while back and asked whats going of with these places
hollywoodnorth
Apr 11, 2009, 2:11 AM
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
a 'minor hold' you should have said so ;) or is it a mini hold? or micro? or small? or medium?
I don't think there is a difference bro ;) a HOLD is a HOLD ;)
Whalleyboy
Apr 11, 2009, 3:26 AM
no most holds around here lately have equaled canceled
this one isnt being canceled=P
Volksboi
Apr 11, 2009, 2:06 PM
I purchased in Ultra...Its not on hold.. There was a delay from when they where going to start, but they should be starting soon. When I hear hold I agree with you Whalleyboy, it generally goes from "Hold" to "Cancelled"....I can confirm that this is not the case with Ultra...If you go by the site, you will see the land is already being cleared....
skymaster
Apr 13, 2009, 11:50 PM
This plan is just a vision now.
Whalleyboy
Apr 14, 2009, 1:41 AM
well the one tower is still ago and they company owns the whole land area for all this already so and there pretty set on going big..so i highly doubt this is just a vision its more or less there goal
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