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View Full Version : New York Times Piece, 09/26/2007, on the Portland Dining Scene


PacificNW
09-26-2007, 02:54 AM
Very positive article: :cheers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/26/dining/26port.html?ex=1348459200&en=c49e00e57e59d353&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

THEY come but they don’t go.

In the way New York drew artists in the ’50s, this city at the confluence of the Willamette and Columbia Rivers seems to exert a magnetic lure on talented chefs who come from almost anywhere else and decide to stay right here. About the hardest thing to find in Portland these days is a homegrown chef.

Portland may seem an unlikely place for such status, a city destined to play second string on the West Coast to San Francisco and Seattle. But in the last five years or so Portland has grown and evolved.

At first it was a sort of underground stop for food and wine lovers who had heard word of small, fascinating restaurants run by young, talented chefs serving a bounty of local produce. It’s underground no more. Portland has emerged from its chrysalis as a full-fledged dining destination.

This is a golden age of dining and drinking in a city that 15 years ago was about as cutting edge as a tomato in January. Every little neighborhood in this city of funky neighborhoods now seems to be exploding with restaurants, food shops and markets, all benefiting from a critical mass of passion, skill and experience, and all constructed according to the gospel of locally grown ingredients.

In close proximity is a cadre of farmers committed to growing environmentally responsible produce with maximum flavor, delivered to restaurants and to the gorgeous farmers’ markets that dot the city. There are local fisheries and small beef, lamb and pork producers. Not far away is the Hood River Valley, with its myriad fruit growers who supply glistening, fragile berries and stonefruits of every stripe and color.

World-class wine is produced in the Willamette Valley, the center of the Oregon wine industry, just a half hour’s drive away. Portland has six micro-distilleries making any kind of spirits you can name and, if you’d like a chaser, more breweries than any other city on earth. Just as important is a receptive populace, demanding yet eager to be wowed.

Portland also has what anybody in the restaurant business will tell you is most important of all: affordable real estate. Just as young, passionate chefs flocked to the East Village and Brooklyn in the 1990s, chefs have gravitated to Portland because it lets them have a vision and take risks without lining up corporate backers and lawyers.

“This is one of the very few places on the West Coast that has been an affordable place to live,” said Andy Ricker, who in 2005 opened Pok Pok, which started under his obsessive eye as a ramshackle Thai takeout shack and now has a hip little dining room as well. “There are a ton of people here who are going at it in sort of an indie rock way, mostly because they can.”

Mr. Ricker is a perfect example. Originally from Vermont, he spent years cooking around the world before following a girl to Portland in the early 1990s. He got a job at Zefiro, an Italian restaurant that set a standard for Portland cooking back then. Restless, he left the business and became a house painter, saving money and traveling to southeast Asia for three or four months at a time. He also bought two houses and sold them, taking advantage of a rising real estate market so he could finance his vision of a southeast Asian restaurant without having to satisfy financial backers.

Now, he’s won acclaim for dishes like juicy game hens roasted over charcoal and stuffed with lemon grass, garlic, pepper and cilantro, and local pork loin marinated in coconut milk and turmeric, and served with peanut sauce.

“You could never open a place that was completely a shot in the dark in San Francisco or New York because the costs are so prohibitive,” he said.

Costs were a major concern to Vitaly and Kimberly Paley, who arrived with an earlier wave of restaurant immigrants in 1994. Eager for a fresh start after working in some of Manhattan’s most illustrious restaurants, they toured the West Coast, finally settling on Portland.

“We sold our 500-square-foot New York apartment, and with the money, we bought a house with a swimming pool, two cars, and had enough left to open a restaurant,” Mr. Paley said.

Today, Paley’s Place, a warm and intimate dining room on the first floor of a Victorian house in northwest Portland, is recognized as one of the top restaurants in the Northwest, if not the country, and Mr. Paley has been celebrated for applying French techniques to the Northwestern palette of ingredients. Just as important, Paley’s Place, along with other seminal restaurants like Zefiro, Wildwood, Higgins and Genoa, has served as an incubator for much of the talent that is making its mark today.

Gabriel Rucker of Le Pigeon, a kind of new-wave bistro, learned the basics of making stocks and working the grill during two years at Paley’s after he arrived here from his hometown, Napa, Calif. He passed through a few other kitchens, then last year he was given an opportunity to take over one of his own. He transformed a little storefront restaurant into Le Pigeon, an informal, slightly manic spot with seasonally changing, nonconformist dishes like braised pork belly with creamed corn and butter-poached prawns, sweetbreads with pickled watermelon, and just about anything that can possibly involve tongue. His signature dessert is apricot cornbread with bacon, topped with maple ice cream.

“I used to think of Portland as a stepping stone, but I fell in love with the city,” said Mr. Rucker, who’s all of 26. “Rather than going somewhere with a really established food scene, I felt as a young chef that I could really have a lot of possibilities.”

Like many of Portland’s top chefs, he has established firm relationships with the local farmers. “I can call and have loads of chanterelles or huckleberries delivered right to my door,” he said. “When you have people as passionate about growing a watermelon as I am to use it, it’s great.”

Passion is an important word here in Portland, and so is politics, especially when applied to agriculture. Many of the older farmers came from the Bay Area in the 1970s with a vision of sustainable agriculture, and they have continued to adhere to those principles. Chefs around the country pay lip service to the philosophy of seasonal cooking, but in Portland they seem to take this idea especially seriously, following the examples of influential chefs like Mr. Paley, Greg Higgins (from upstate New York) of Higgins, Dave Machado (Massachusetts) of Lauro Kitchen and Vindalho, and Cory Schreiber of Wildwood — that rare Oregon native, though he’s now retired.

“They did a great job establishing the expectation among Portland’s dining community that restaurants were going to be using local and seasonal ingredients,” said Ken Forkish, who, inspired by the French baker Lionel Poilâne, came from Maryland in 2000 to open Ken’s Artisan Bakery and, last year, Ken’s Artisan Pizza.

He found Portland tough going at first. Even standard fare — rustic fruit tarts and croissants — was not that familiar here six years ago, Mr. Forkish said, but he believes the population has quickly become more worldly.

“Partly it’s because of all the new places that opened,” he said, “but there’s also been a steady influx of new people who expect these things.”

One recent arrival is Tony Soter, a longtime Napa Valley winemaker who last year moved here with his family. They are living in Portland as they build a house on their property in the Willamette Valley. The Soters have 200 acres on an east-west ridge with orchards, herds of sheep and goats, and 10 head of cattle.

“Napa is country only in name,” he said. “This is the real deal out here.”

Mr. Soter and his wife, Michelle, come from the Portland area originally. And though Mr. Soter spent most of the last 20 years in California, working with Spottswoode, Shafer and Araujo, along with his own winery, Etude, the Soters grew tired of the gloss of Napa. They longed for an environment more in tune with their own values and a place where Mr. Soter felt he could make more balanced European-style wines than he could in California.

The local wine industry has played a crucial role in the rise of Portland’s food culture. Visiting wine celebrities are drawn into the gravitational pull of Portland’s restaurants, but, aside from that, wine regions naturally inspire a surrounding culture that is highly sensitive to cuisine.

Pascal Sauton grew up in Paris and had cooked in Philadelphia, New York and Colorado before he visited Portland 11 years ago with his wife, Julie Hunter, and decided he never wanted to leave. “I loved the fact that there were four distinct seasons, and the wine valley was a big factor,” he said. “The climate, and the whole feel, was European.”

After cooking at several different places, the couple opened Carafe in 2003, a joyful, informal bistro that is half French — Mr. Sauton’s wide, friendly face is as unmistakably French as a bottle of Beaujolais — and all northwestern. To walk through a farmer’s market on a summer morning and to see beautiful golden chanterelles and organic cipollini onions, sweet cherry tomatoes, pattypan squash and bell peppers in purple, ivory and orange, is to have some idea of what you might find on Mr. Sauton’s lunch menu. You’ll even find glorious local corn on the menu, something you would never see in France.

“Well, we bend the rules a little,” he said.

In the winter, he gets tarbais beans from local farmers for his cassoulet along with leeks, celery root and winter squash. Winter is serious business for a chef dedicated to seasonal cooking, yet Portland chefs have worked closely with farmers to assure a steady supply of produce through the dark months. Brussels sprouts, broccoli, greens and cauliflower are in the winter pipeline; seasonal cooking also forces creativity.

“It’s a time to slow down and really make some focused dishes that will stay on the menu for a while, maybe do a braise or a confit or dumplings,” said Jason Barwikowski (Michigan), the chef at Clyde Common, a bustling restaurant that opened this year in the Ace Hotel. Mr. Barwikowski arrived in Portland after working in Wyoming, where he was able to combine cooking with a love of snowboarding, rock climbing and fly-fishing. Things haven’t changed all that much except that the level of cooking is higher.

“I still snowboard and fly-fish and rock climb and ride bikes,” he said. “Half an hour in any direction and you’re in the mountains or woods.”

These other attributes of Portland — the outdoor life, and its deliberately casual, relaxed atmosphere — may in some ways limit what its restaurants can accomplish.

“Portland may be over-hyped in some ways,” said Dave Machado, who after 16 years in Portland is a respected old guard chef. “A big city with an international component is always going to have crisper service. We have a regional class of service here.”

At the same time, Portland’s population is growing and real estate prices are climbing, leading some to fear that the city will lose its cherished renegade spirit. But Mr. Paley, for one, scoffs at that notion.

“I think Portland innately will make sure that people always have opportunities,” he said. “Portland is a free spirit.”

bvpcvm
09-26-2007, 04:03 AM
interesting that these entrepreneurs say that one of their reasons for locating here is cheap real estate, given that all the pro-37 types whine that the UGB makes portland unaffordable.

WestCoast
09-26-2007, 04:06 AM
it's wonderful to see such press, and see some talented and dedicated individuals coming here and contributing to the local culture.

tworivers
09-26-2007, 04:22 AM
Portland may seem an unlikely place for such status, a city destined to play second string on the West Coast to San Francisco and Seattle.

Ouch! San Francisco maybe, but Seattle too? The "destined" part of that statement made me wince in pain.

Otherwise a fine article. The NYT has practically written a book about us this year.

Eagle rock
09-26-2007, 04:25 AM
I hate how this article praises Portland while at the same time making it seem like Podunk backwater. The tone of this article is, “how can such interesting, amazing food come out of this town in the middle of nowhere.” People in the rest of the country really can’t make sense out of what is happening in Portland, because what is happening here is truly different then what is happening in the rest of the country. I really think Portland is the Vanguard, not just in terms of food, but in terms of a new way of living and the New York Times cant handle it!

PDX City-State
09-26-2007, 07:13 AM
I think it's a good article...and not so negative at all. They said the same type of shit about Seattle when it was "discovered" 15 years ago. Now East Coast writers are just looking for new material. Portland's dining scene is truly amazing and accessible. I can't think of another city (besides Seattle) where one can eat foie gras in a t-shirt.

pdxtraveler
09-26-2007, 04:30 PM
interesting that these entrepreneurs say that one of their reasons for locating here is cheap real estate, given that all the pro-37 types whine that the UGB makes portland unaffordable.

You also have to take into account who is writing this, to New Yorkers (or for that matter people from San Francisco, Seattle, and LA) we are cheap. Doesn't mean I personally don't think we are getting really expensive.

MarkDaMan
09-26-2007, 04:37 PM
I thought it was a good article too. I didn't like the ending about not being able to be world class because we aren't 'crisp' enough. On the contrary, I think our casual style in Portland is comfortable and allows the locals to actually dine on our world class foods grown from our world class farms. If crisp and stuffy means world class, then I don't want that title attached to our city.

SeattleHusky82
09-26-2007, 04:44 PM
Ouch! San Francisco maybe, but Seattle too? The "destined" part of that statement made me wince in pain.

Otherwise a fine article. The NYT has practically written a book about us this year.

What's wrong with playing second string to Seattle?

Okstate
09-26-2007, 05:24 PM
This article is great. The only reason journalists put a couple jabs in there is to make their article appear more unbiased. As for the writer him/herself, I bet they only wanted to say great things about the city.

PDX City-State
09-26-2007, 07:55 PM
What's wrong with playing second string to Seattle?

Because it's not the case...Seattle has its big city attributes, which include a more cosmopolitan appeal and a much more dynamic economy. Seattle is a true metropolis. However, Portland has its own thing going on and people move here for different reasons. I don't think its really about second string...Two completely different cities doing completely different things. I love them both. I wouldn't say the Seattle is second string to San Francisco or New York either... It was sort of a stupid line in the first place.

Nutterbug
09-27-2007, 12:23 AM
Ouch! San Francisco maybe, but Seattle too? The "destined" part of that statement made me wince in pain.

No coast, no glamour no glory.

Eagle rock
09-27-2007, 12:50 AM
"No coast, no glamour no glory."

Tell that to Paris, London, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Cairo, Moscow, Berlin...

Besides Portland essentially is on the coast and I dont really think having a port is essential to a cities fortune in todays economy.

rsbear
09-27-2007, 03:09 AM
What's wrong with playing second string to Seattle?

Seattle's a great city but it doesn't always live up to all the hype it receives, and gives itself. I just love (now) living in LA and hearing California's rave about Portland (which many are just discovering) and frequently being disappointed with Seattle... because Seattle doesn't live up to the fantasy land reputation that the media has bestowed on it. I had dinner last night with a couple friends from LA who go to B.C. almost every year. This year they went spent a few days in Portland, then a few days in Seattle before going to Vancouver. This was their first trip to Portland and they "loved, loved, loved Portland". The quote I remember from them about Seattle was "not so much". It would be ok to play second string to Seattle, if Seattle was worth being first string. It's not, it's over hyped.

rsbear
09-27-2007, 03:18 AM
"No coast, no glamour no glory."

Tell that to Paris, London, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Cairo, Moscow, Berlin...

Besides Portland essentially is on the coast and I dont really think having a port is essential to a cities fortune in todays economy.

Oh, come now, coasts/ports always equal glamour... Oakland, Long Beach, Tacoma, Galveston/Houston...

Just listen to Nutterbug, who's obviously an expert on this matter.

Nutterbug
09-27-2007, 03:40 AM
Oh, come now, coasts/ports always equal glamour... Oakland, Long Beach, Tacoma, Galveston/Houston...

Just listen to Nutterbug, who's obviously an expert on this matter.

I'm just saying what I figure is probably the biggest reason tourists pass over Portland for Seattle in the region. It lacks the picture postcard setting that a seaside city like Seattle has (in addition to being a bigger, more established city with more attractions).

And don't underestimate the value of the ports, with all the increased trade with Asia.

SeattleHusky82
09-27-2007, 04:17 AM
Seattle's a great city but it doesn't always live up to all the hype it receives, and gives itself. I just love (now) living in LA and hearing California's rave about Portland (which many are just discovering) and frequently being disappointed with Seattle... because Seattle doesn't live up to the fantasy land reputation that the media has bestowed on it. I had dinner last night with a couple friends from LA who go to B.C. almost every year. This year they went spent a few days in Portland, then a few days in Seattle before going to Vancouver. This was their first trip to Portland and they "loved, loved, loved Portland". The quote I remember from them about Seattle was "not so much". It would be ok to play second string to Seattle, if Seattle was worth being first string. It's not, it's over hyped.

I don't intend to make this a Portland vs Seattle thread but I just wanted to express my opinion since I've lived in both cities. I was born and raised in Portland and later moved to Seattle for college (go huskies!) and settled down here afterward. Anyway, ever since I've developed an interest in urban development I couldn't help but feel that Portland is so overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's a great place to start a family and a very charming town but it doesn't give me the "wow" factor that Seattle, SF, or Vancouver has. Perhaps my opinion of Portland will change as I grow older but as a 20-something yuppie, Seattle is much more fun and exciting than Portland. A few weeks ago some of my buddies from Portland came up to visit and I took them out to Belltown and Pioneer Square and they told me they were jealous because not much of a nightlife/club scene in Portland. Over the summer I had visitors from the East coast come through and we did the trifecta (Portland, Seattle, Vancouver) and they all agreed that Portland was the low point of the trip. I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of hate from this post but I just wanted to reaffirm my original point in that although Portland is a great town and I'll always consider it to be home, it doesn't scream out "must see city" so that's why some people, such as the author of the article, may view it as a second tier West coast city below to Seattle and SF.

PDX City-State
09-27-2007, 04:28 AM
And don't underestimate the value of the ports, with all the increased trade with Asia.

Our port is bigger actually.

Dry tonnage 2005 (2007 World Book Almanac, page 77)
Portland 29,995,641,000
Seattle 23,501,372,000

This Seattle vs. Portland thing always gets old. They're two different cities. I prefer to live in Portland, but love that Seattle is less than three hours away. Seattle doesn't really "wow" me as I've lived in much larger cities, but it's certainly far more urbane than Portland. I love Pike's market, I love that it has so many upscale boutiques and I love that its skyline is impressive. Still, Portland has changed so much in five years, and it's going to boom over the next five. It's not charity that the New York Times and other publications have spilled so much ink on Portland...there's a creative spirit here that few cities have.

rsbear
09-27-2007, 04:45 AM
... It lacks the picture postcard setting that a seaside city like Seattle has...

Ok, you've got more water, you win.

PacificNW
09-27-2007, 04:56 AM
PDX...I think you opened a can of worms on the port thing. I think the Port of Seattle has much more "overall" types of cargo and traffic....from air passengers to sea going cargo. The Port of Portland, I think, handles more auto imports than Seattle...but I wouldn't stake my life on this. I understand the ports of Long Beach, L.A., Oakland, Tacoma and Seattle have much larger operations than the Portland port.

Nutterbug
09-27-2007, 05:13 AM
Ok, you've got more water, you win.

Psst... I'm not from either of these cities. I'm just giving my own impressions as a (would-be) visitor.

awg
09-27-2007, 06:05 AM
Any architect (or person interested in architecture) will probably agree that Seattle is "better" from a single building point of view. Or a cultural point of view. That's just the way it is. They have a huge, driving economy with Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks, etc. When they make money they distribute it among their shareholders and employees and create a lot of individual wealth that shows up in better funded museums, symphonies, colleges, pro sports teams, etc. So they have fancier (more expensive) buildings.

But that's not day to day life. Those are reasons--and good ones--to visit a place. But, personally, those aren't really reasons to live in a place. Every city has jobs. Every city has extra things to do in your life. Most people get to a point in their life where they would like to buy a nice house in a decent neighborhood and get to and from work painlessly so they can spend time with their family. That seems more difficult to do in Seattle. Its a stretch coming up with $300,000 for a place in Portland if you are under 30. But coming up with $500,000 in Seattle seems a hell of a lot more difficult for the average joe.

I also think Portland's downtown just feels more comfortable because of the scale. Unless you are really big and full of people (like New York or Chicago), its hard to get excited around a handful of very tall buildings. I think most people react to Portland simply because it seems accessible and easy to understand/navigate downtown.

PDX City-State
09-27-2007, 06:05 AM
The numbers indicate dry tonnage, and it's fair to mention that Tacoma's port is also quite big.

Eagle rock
09-27-2007, 08:57 AM
Seattle lacks a lot of the things that make a great cities: extensive rail based, mass transit system, vibrant multicultural neighborhoods, contiguously walkable urban neighborhoods. Portland is not quit there either; however I would say Portland is doing a much better job of developing in this manner then Seattle.

San Francisco on the other hand is one of the most ideal urban environments on the planet in my opinion. It has all the things listed above, plus incredible architecture, and one of the most dramatic settings of any city in the world. So I would have to agree that Portland is second string to San Francisco for now, but not Seattle.

sopdx
09-27-2007, 10:01 PM
The article was about the dining scene in Portland. It really has nothing to do with Seattle, but give any one city credit, the other has to lash out. It's regional rivalry.

There is a huge difference between the cities - or with Portland and almost every other major American city. Seattle has become big and shiny, corporate, money driven. I lived there for years, loved it then, not so much now.

Portland is developing it's own groove - as the article points out. We have an amazing art and music scene, yet it's all approachable. We are attracting more and more people who admire our ethos. We're a role model, not a follower. The people coming here aren't microsoft goobs or corporate wanna be's, impressed with what's shiny. The city is comfortable with itself and becoming better and more urban. Portland doesn't try to be something else. Why should it? It will become a larger city, more vibrant and more cosmopolitan - it's already happening - but will hopefully do it on it's own terms.

brandonpdx
09-27-2007, 11:02 PM
Can we just put an end to these stupid my city is better than your city arguments!? It has clearly been decided that Seattle is a better city because it has more water around it. end of story. Portland can build the tallest most iconic building in the world, have more pro teams, more museums, more recognized bands, more world renowned chefs and it will never be as good as Seattle; the Willamette and Columbia just can't hold as much water as the sound and lake Washington/Union ...sorry charlie.

PacificNW
09-28-2007, 02:08 AM
⬆ Ha!Ha! I don't think Lake Washington should be compared to the Columbia River though (tongue in cheek)....maybe just the part that PDX sits next too but the Lake Washington setting is pretty special in its own right ...the urban development around Lake Washington is much more dense..plus the average price of a home at the lake must rank close to being the highest in Puget Sound. The Gate's pad is valued @ over $100 million. Little 'ole Portland is still a pretty cool city..along with its setting... :) :cheers:

Nutterbug
09-28-2007, 03:29 AM
Can we just put an end to these stupid my city is better than your city arguments!? It has clearly been decided that Seattle is a better city because it has more water around it. end of story. Portland can build the tallest most iconic building in the world, have more pro teams, more museums, more recognized bands, more world renowned chefs and it will never be as good as Seattle; the Willamette and Columbia just can't hold as much water as the sound and lake Washington/Union ...sorry charlie.

Maybe it's the strategic position on the sound that got the bigger city with the taller buildings, more sports teams, etc. to set up where Seattle is.

PDX City-State
09-28-2007, 05:00 AM
Well perhaps the next time Eric Asimov, one of the most famous food and wine critics on the planet, writes a story about Portland's truly dynamic dining scene, he ought to consult Nutterbug first.

PacificNW
09-28-2007, 05:14 AM
⬆ Right on! PDX City-State!!! :cheers:

Nutterbug
09-28-2007, 05:29 AM
Jesus Christ, what is with all the Portland defensiveness?

I'm not trying to put any city down. I'm just stating an objective opinion on a perceived reason as to how one locale could be disadvantaged to another in terms of habitation, commerce, etc., and geography's effect on it.

And for the record, "second string" is Asimov's words, not mine. :rolleyes:

rsbear
09-28-2007, 06:13 AM
Jesus Christ, what is with all the Portland defensiveness?

Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself (you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.

PacificNW
09-28-2007, 06:24 AM
Nutterbug....why don't you reread your responses to this thread....you come off as being pretty biased towards our neighbor to the north. It was just an article written by someone who is respected in his field of expertise...

This Portland/Seattle thing is not unique. People in Portland hate their city being compared to Seattle when they feel Seattle represents everything they don't want Portland to evolve into. Make sense? Seattle has always strived to be a "World Class City". It's not that important to attain this status for those who call Portland home. (For the most part, I think.) There are some people who live in Seattle who seem to have an attitude that Seattle is a more desirable city to live, work, and play when compared to Portland and they proclaim this from the tops of their majestic downtown towers and corporate offices . Portland has an attitude that it is the best city in America for "correct" urban planning and having one of the best transit systems in the U.S. This, I am sure, annoys a lot of people. I have lived "many years" in both. They are both incredible cities. I think people want to love and enjoy the city they call home. When I lived in Dallas and Houston no one could say anything nice about the other...Those living in Dallas or Houston hate the other town. L.A./San Francisco? No love lost. San Francisco/Oakland? Same feelings. New York City/Boston?....Don't dare say you are a Yankee fan and live in Boston. Are you kidding me? What rivalry that Seattle/Portland comes no where the degree of rivalry as the fore mentioned cities. We just like to have fun with each other.. :) :notacrook:

Nutterbug
09-28-2007, 06:38 AM
Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself
Too bad you have to look at it that way. I just meant to inject a little reality and was expressing my perceived reason as to why popular opinion would put Seattle in a more favourable light, including that of the writer himself.

(you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.
I find it quite baffling that you Seattleites and Portlanders have this rivalry/animosity between you. I suppose having to share the same forum does that.

I'm from Vancouver BC, by the way, yet feel no need to get into a pissing match with nearby Seattle. I suppose good borders make good neighbours.

tworivers
09-28-2007, 08:21 AM
We're kind of like a couple of brothers who are attached at the hip and are also cursed with very different personalities. Hence the grouchiness.

SeattleHusky82
09-28-2007, 08:43 AM
Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself (you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.

For the record, I didn't mean to crash the party and bash Portland for no reason. I only posted after one of the posters took a cheap shot at Seattle with the "ouch...second string to Seattle" line and I simply asked what they meant by that and then all the Portland defensiveness/Seattle bashing came out.

tworivers
09-28-2007, 09:08 AM
I only posted after one of the posters took a cheap shot at Seattle with the "ouch...second string to Seattle" line and I simply asked what they meant by that

Did I really start all of this?!

Sorry, but suggesting that Portland is "second string" to Seattle is so... 1999. A cheap shot was not my intention, though. Indeed, it was only a few months ago that I was singing Seattle's praises on this forum, after a bike-centric visit that I thoroughly enjoyed. In reality, each city plays "second string" to the other in different ways. And I think we've already elucidated these distinctions, so...

How about we discuss the PDX food scene? Anyone else in love with Toro Bravo?

Black Box
09-28-2007, 09:21 AM
We're in the middle, does that mean we're the GLUE? Anyhow, I've lived in Portland and now reside in Seattle and who is to say that Seattle does not have its' own thing or that it was not developed on its' own terms? That's ridiculous! Ten, fifteen years ago, the writer would have inserted Seattle in that article. Today, it is Portland. I am not dismissive of Seattle or Portland's accomplishments. You see, we're all still debating about how a New York writer defines our cities. Not in totality, but certainly in the context of who the media giant, mover shaker is. Does that mean that a New York writer can decide the fate of said cities? Hell no! It's up for debate because of the scope a writer from New York has. It is a place of immense influence. What influences these rantings? I wonder what Mr. Asimov or Mr. Bruni would think reading these posts? Of course they take us into consideration, but in the end, we're left with ourselves. My take, Seattle and Portland are different, but I think they're much more alike than they are otherwise. We're blinking eyes.

PacificNW
09-28-2007, 03:39 PM
Black Box...you're right. I have been around long enough to remember, and live through, all the positive press/top of the polls Seattle has received for over 20 years... Now, Portland, in the last few years, is getting its due press.

PDX City-State
09-28-2007, 04:57 PM
Ten, fifteen years ago, the writer would have inserted Seattle in that article. Today, it is Portland.

Well put...Portland has become a media darling, as especially of the NY Times. It's always been great, but it's really only starting to move (quickly) toward its potential. Seattle is already there. When I walk through Seattle, I never look around and think about what could be...it's pretty much already there. In Portland, there's still a lot of possibility and finally downtown neighborhoods are being redeveloped. If you want a big urban scene, you're probably not going to get your city hard-on from Portland...that's why I go to Seattle once every two months or so...or better yet Vancouver. However, if you want to visit a city with a truly interesting and original vibe that's still feels a bit under-the-radar, has an urbane sensitivity, but hasn't yet been over-run with money (mark my works, this is going to happen very quickly), Portland is one of very few places. That, I guess, was the point of the article. Still, I agree with a lot of things Nutterbug said about Seattle. The water factor does create a "wowing" effect. To stand on the Seattle Waterfront and look at the Olympics over the sound conjures up a feeling that few cities on earth can offer. Portland, with its green and hilly topography that's surrounded by several large volcanoes, isn't exactly Des Moines though...and as brought out earlier in this thread, many of the worlds great cities are river cities. I don't think Portland can compare itself to places like Paris and Milan, but Lyon and Bilbao are fare game. We're not a first-tier city, and that's fine with me. At the same time, the days Portland lived in shadow of Seattle are absolutely over. We have our own thing going on, and it's pretty fucking unique. Still, I'm very happy to have Seattle so close. I love the feeling I get when I see the Seattle skyline from West Seattle. I also love the high-end boutiques and the fact that Seattle has a Rem Koolhaas building and an art museum that doesn't totally suck (designed by a Portland firm). So cheers bitches! to the NW...how many regions In North America have three diverse and unique urban centers each with such unique qualities? Plus, the coffee in Sea-Van-PDX is perhaps the best on earth, which was the subject of another New York Times article just two weeks ago.

Black Box
09-28-2007, 07:36 PM
^By the way, Seattle has a river that runs through it. Well, it's not as large, but just so you know. Okay now, shall we move on? This can go on forever and get pretty exhausting. We obviously have our strong point of views and they're not going to change much. Okay Portlanders, which of these restaurants would you recommend an out of town visitor try first? Like, say me. What do you like best about your food scene?

rsbear
09-28-2007, 08:27 PM
^ Okay Portlanders, which of these restaurants would you recommend an out of town visitor try first? Like, say me. What do you like best about your food scene?

For a 'liquid' meal I always take out-of-town visitors to Huber's Cafe on S.W. 3rd (between Stark and Washington) for a Spanish Coffee. The place is about 100 years old and the inside doesn't look like much has changed in all those years. And they make this huge production out of making the Spanish Coffee; very memorible. Warning - the drinks are potent. Great spot to stop while siteseeing downtown, and the coffees are especially nice on a wet winter day. Huber's is also known for their 'homemade' turkey dinners - just like grandma used to make for Thanksgiving. Certainly not haute culture and not a place the NY Times would cover, but I love it. No matter how much Portland changes, you can count on Huber's to stay the same.

sopdx
09-28-2007, 11:15 PM
Dude, you've had too many spanish coffees :) Who mentioned torre bravo - it's wondeful. Anybody tried sel gris???

horatioalfonzo
09-29-2007, 01:34 AM
http://www.portlandmenuguide.com/

That site has a lot of good restaurants, although I think a few from the list are no longer around.

I'd also add the Bombay Cricket Club and the Hush Hush Cafe.

zilfondel
09-29-2007, 09:44 AM
lol you guys just never give up.

Seems like I'm the one who has to crash the party, as there are no Bond posts here.

Portland has crappy food! Go away, we don't want our prices to go up!!!!

:whip: :yuck:

Nutterbug
09-29-2007, 12:26 PM
Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself (you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.
One other thing.

Instead of starting a pissing match between Portlanders and Seattleites over what is said in a NY paper, ask yourselves how much New Yorkers would care about what is written about them in the Oregonian (or the Seattle Times/PI for that matter). :haha:

PDX City-State
09-29-2007, 05:18 PM
One other thing.

Instead of starting a pissing match between Portlanders and Seattleites over what is said in a NY paper, ask yourselves how much New Yorkers would care about what is written about them in the Oregonian (or the Seattle Times/PI for that matter). :haha:


Good point. They wouldn't care. Though I read this the other day...

http://www.wweek.com/wwire/?p=9379

It's funny that Pacific NW cuisine is suddenly hip and exportable. I'm also told that Willamette Valley and Columbia wines are all the rage at NYC restaurants these days.

MarkDaMan
09-29-2007, 08:06 PM
One other thing.

Instead of starting a pissing match between Portlanders and Seattleites over what is said in a NY paper, ask yourselves how much New Yorkers would care about what is written about them in the Oregonian (or the Seattle Times/PI for that matter).

course the Oregonian and the Seattle Times/PI altogether don't equate for even half of the NYT's national audience.

Nutterbug
09-30-2007, 12:50 AM
Good point. They wouldn't care. Though I read this the other day...

http://www.wweek.com/wwire/?p=9379

It's funny that Pacific NW cuisine is suddenly hip and exportable. I'm also told that Willamette Valley and Columbia wines are all the rage at NYC restaurants these days.

I'm sure the West Coast has always been hip to them in a small, pretty and refreshing place to vacation sort of way, but will always be a backwater overall to those haughty New Yorkers.

alexjon
09-30-2007, 12:56 AM
Our port is bigger actually.

Dry tonnage 2005 (2007 World Book Almanac, page 77)
Portland 29,995,641,000
Seattle 23,501,372,000


Is that grain shipping?

alexjon
09-30-2007, 12:58 AM
Okay, we'll put an end to this.

Portland has better bear events, but Seattle has a better scene.

PacificNW
09-30-2007, 01:32 AM
⬆ What does that mean? Bear events?

alexjon
09-30-2007, 01:37 AM
It means cheap beer and (usually) fun guys you've probably seen everywhere

PacificNW
09-30-2007, 01:41 AM
⬆ If you mean "Bear" like I think you are suggesting I don't hang out at the Dirty Duck when in PDX but inexpensive "good" beer=bring it on. :)

Drew-Ski
10-02-2007, 07:28 AM
I reserected this old artical.......seems that the NYT is not the only media powerhouse to proclaim Portland's great culinary scene. Check this out!



Food Network Awards 2007: Delicious Destination of the Year!

The Food Network's chef Emeril Lagasse has just announced the cable network's first-ever awards to honor the people, places and products that are making a delicious difference in our world today. Portland, a 'rising city with a fast-growing food scene,' was selected as the 2007 Delicious Destination of the Year.

The awards will be presented at the South Beach Wine & Food Festival Feb 22-25, 2007.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_aw/text/0,3151,FOOD_28456_61089,00.html
Source: The Food Network, Apr 16, 2007.


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PDX City-State
10-02-2007, 06:23 PM
Whoa...check out this post from veteran magazine journalist Kevin Allman.

http://kevinallman.com/

PacificNW
10-02-2007, 06:39 PM
Very interesting.. definitely could be a "conflict of interest" going on here...It will be interesting to see how this plays out....

tworivers
06-01-2008, 08:29 PM
The NYT published it's "places to go this summer" travel issue today and Portland is #11. The short blurb mentions only the food scene, and drops Clyde Common specifically. Two other Oregon places get listed: the Owyhee River and Hwy 101. Not bad.

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