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BTinSF
09-28-2007, 06:48 PM
S.F. cruise terminal finds new berth
San Francisco Business Times - by J.K. Dineen
riday, September 28, 2007

A blue-ribbon panel on the future of San Francisco's cruise ship industry has identified Pier 27 as the best place for a new terminal, a recommendation that could give a major boost to Shorenstein Properties' proposed mixed-use development on Piers 27-31.

The panel, led by former Port Commissioner Frankie Lee and Chamber of Commerce President Steve Falk, said that Pier 27, which is in relatively good shape, represents the cheapest and best place to accommodate the increasing number of luxury cruise vessels that have been stopping in San Francisco over the past few years.

The debate comes as Shorenstein Properties and partner Farallon Capital Management are negotiating with the port to transform Piers 27-31 into a recreation, office and cruise ship facility. The panel didn't specifically address the Shorenstein project, details of which have not been made public. But it was clear that funding the terminal would likely require a public-private partnership of the sort that Shorenstein is proposing.

In addition, a cruise ship terminal could give the project a better chance of passing muster with the State Lands Commission. That agency, which must approve any waterfront development, tends to favor maritime and recreation uses over offices.

While the details of the Shorenstein project are still being worked out, the revised plan would likely include more than 300,000 square feet of office space and a large recreation facility. In October 2006, Shorenstein proposed 440,000 square feet of office space as the economic engine that could pay for the $446 million project, which included a $145 seismic upgrade of the rotting piers. Under a revised plan, the amount of office space is likely to be significantly reduced to accommodate the cruise ship terminal.

The West Coast cruise ship trade has been stopping with increasing frequency in San Francisco as both Alaska and Mexico have exploded as cruising hot spots. The cruise ship industry currently pumps $31 million into the city's economy and between 1998 and 2006 the number of cruise passengers visiting the city annually rose from 34,000 to 250,000.

While San Francisco represents a popular stopover, the city's antiquated cruise terminal at Pier 35 is too small and in poor shape. The Port of San Francisco estimated that Pier 35 will be completely obsolete in five to seven years. Pier 35 could be repaired for $45 million, but even then it would remain too short, with a shed that is too small and an apron that is too narrow, according to the panel.

"Pier 35 is like a time bomb -- it's going to blow up if we don't do anything, and bye-bye cruise ship industry," said Lee.

The panel looked at three options for Pier 27. The cheapest, bare-bones development would cost $26.6 million, but would not meet cruise ship industry standards. The other two options would cost $57.9 million for a moderate renovation or $106.6 million for the most expensive alternative, which would include a berth at Pier 29. At a Port Commission meeting Sept. 25, Falk said San Francisco should choose the middle alternative. The city "needs a stronger seat at the table" or will "sit back and let the ship pass us by," he said.

"The industry is growing and we need to grow with it," said Falk.

Shorenstein Executive Vice President Tom Hart said the panel report shows that a new cruise ship terminal at Pier 27 "is clearly the direction the port has to head in.

"Every great American city has a library, a symphony, a baseball team, and every great port city should have a first-class home cruise ship facility," said Hart. "I think a facility at Pier 27 is the place for it, and we would like to be part of the equation."

The city has had several false starts in its efforts to develop a new cruise terminal. The most recent deal was at Piers 30-32, where Bovis Lend Lease had agreed to develop a terminal as part of a larger office and condo project. That agreement ran aground when the developer's estimated costs for seismically retrofitting the dilapidated piers doubled to $80 million. The aborted terminal at Piers 30-32, however, did generate some money for a cruise ship terminal. As part of that agreement, Bovis Lend Lease was allowed to develop the Watermark condos on Port-owned land in exchange for pumping a portion of profits into a fund for the cruise ship terminal. That money, $17.8 million, could be transferred to Piers 27-31.

Larger cruise ships are expected to hit the West Coast in 2008, including the Genesis line currently under construction. The Genesis ships are 1,035 feet long and hold more than 5,400 passengers. Longshoreman Willie Adams, secretary-treasurer of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, said funding a stronger cruise ship facility has been "the No. 1 issue" that always comes up as he looks at infrastructure needs.

"We feel this is at the top of our priority list," said Adams.

jkdineen@bizjournals.com / (415) 288-4971


Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2007/10/01/story1.html

peanut gallery
09-28-2007, 09:59 PM
Even though the deal for piers 30-32 fell through, they are using that pier as an overflow cruise ship terminal. There was a huge one there on Tuesday or Wednesday (I forget which it was) while another large cruise ship was at the usual pier 25.

I think they've worked out most of the environmental concerns. If so, let's build a new terminal!

roadwarrior
09-28-2007, 10:53 PM
They had two separate Norweigan Cruise Line ships at Piers 30-32 this week. Living in this area, I'm dissapointed that the Bryant Street Pier project won't come to fruition, but am happy that the project will occur at least somewhere else.

If they aren't doing anything with the project, I'd hope that they can demolish the piers, so that it really opens up the waterfront, similar to the area between the bay bridge and the ferry building.

ozone
09-29-2007, 06:07 AM
I just want to know: What the hell is a 'blue-ribbon panel' anyway? What is the significance of the color blue? And of the ribbon? Who decided blue was stand-in-judgement color anyway? Why not red or green? Do members of the panel actually wear blue ribbons? Can anyone who wears blue ribbons be on these panels?

SFView
09-30-2007, 09:06 AM
I just want to know: What the hell is a 'blue-ribbon panel' anyway? What is the significance of the color blue? And of the ribbon? Who decided blue was stand-in-judgement color anyway? Why not red or green? Do members of the panel actually wear blue ribbons? Can anyone who wears blue ribbons be on these panels?

Aha...humor! Actually, "Blue Ribbon," means high quality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ribbon

Anyway, we had been discussing the cruise terminal before in another thread here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=131286

Are the Genesis class ships shrinking from 1180 feet long? Here is some background information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_Class
In the other thread we were discussing that the 1180 foot version wouldn't fit under the Golden Gate Bridge.

The idea of building a new cruise terminal in San Francisco has been around for ages. By the time the cruise terminal gets built, many of the people who have been waiting to enjoy it will be, or are already dead or dying!

roadwarrior
10-02-2007, 03:24 AM
The idea of building a new cruise terminal in San Francisco has been around for ages. By the time the cruise terminal gets built, many of the people who have been waiting to enjoy it will be, or are already dead or dying!

I took a cruise once. Almost everyone on the cruise was around 80 or so. Even if this takes 5 years to complete from today (a very optimistic time frame), most won't be around anyway.

ltsmotorsport
10-02-2007, 04:19 AM
Well, the largest market for cruises then is still to come, using that logic. Baby boomers will be there soon enough, and then where would SF be for that market? I wouldn't worry about this terminal not being used in the future.

Downtown Dave
10-03-2007, 10:55 PM
Some gratuitous cruise ship images taken today:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/20071003-SerenadeSeas.jpg

A whole boatload (HA!) of tourists wait to spend money in San Francisco:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/20071003-SerenadeSeasBow.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/20071003-SerenadeSeasReflect.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/20071003-SerenadeSeasDistant.jpg

The serious point would be to imagine how much revenue all those passengers must bring the city. Surely a decent cruise terminal isn't too much to ask.

SFView
10-03-2007, 11:41 PM
:previous: I have been on a few cruises myself, and I've heard a lot of comments from older people impatiently waiting for a new cruise terminal to be built in San Francisco. These are the people more likely to miss out.

Not only do the tourists spend money, but the ships crews do as well. I once knew a female Purser with RCI (that's one of their ships above) that LOVED TO PARTY!

Oh by the way, many of the passengers who sail in or out of San Francisco may be locals, especially if it is a round trip cruise.

BTinSF
10-04-2007, 12:03 AM
The idea of building a new cruise terminal in San Francisco has been around for ages. By the time the cruise terminal gets built, many of the people who have been waiting to enjoy it will be, or are already dead or dying!

From San Francisco's point of view, the "people waiting to enjoy it" are the 20-somethings who will get the additional tourist industry jobs that more cruise ships in the port will bring and the 30- and 40-somethings working in the ship-repair and other maritime industries still hanging on in San Francisco that will get work from the cruise lines.

Then, of course, there's these happy customers of Atlantis Cruises who appear likely to make it through the next 5 years or so:

http://www.atlantisevents.com/images/about_pic1.jpg
Source: http://www.atlantisevents.com/about.aspx

dallasbrink
10-04-2007, 03:55 AM
whats the deal with the coast guard boats escorting the ship

BTinSF
10-04-2007, 04:44 AM
^^^Maybe what you are seeing is this:

http://www.boatingsf.com/photos/070304/DSC_0383_edited.jpg

the harbor pilot. The pilot boat takes him out to board the ship before it enters the Bay and then comes back in along with the ship. There are a couple of them--I don't know if the others are red.

dallasbrink
10-04-2007, 04:48 AM
No, one is a inflatable Coast Guard speed boat, the other on the left is a coast Guard sea clipper.

Downtown Dave
10-04-2007, 05:41 AM
Yup, I had earlier noticed the cutter going out, and was a bit surprised to see it return escorting the cruise liner. The small one is called a defender.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/Cutter.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/PatrolBoat.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/SanFrancisco/GoldenGateBridge/PatrolBoatClose.jpg

SFView
10-04-2007, 06:54 PM
From San Francisco's point of view, the "people waiting to enjoy it" are the 20-somethings who will get the additional tourist industry jobs that more cruise ships in the port will bring and the 30- and 40-somethings working in the ship-repair and other maritime industries still hanging on in San Francisco that will get work from the cruise lines.

Then, of course, there's these happy customers of Atlantis Cruises who appear likely to make it through the next 5 years or so:

http://www.atlantisevents.com/images/about_pic1.jpg
Source: http://www.atlantisevents.com/about.aspx

Ha! Yes of course they will. These people, including the happy ones too, should be around to enjoy it :haha:. There are so many different kinds of people who will benefit and enjoy having a new cruise terminal, including myself. As typical with so many different new projects coming to San Francisco, I can hardly wait to see all of them get completed.

dallasbrink
10-04-2007, 08:02 PM
O, that small one is one of those port authority boats

Downtown Dave
10-05-2007, 03:30 AM
Negative, it is one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCG_Defender_class_boat).

Reminiscence
10-05-2007, 06:36 AM
From San Francisco's point of view, the "people waiting to enjoy it" are the 20-somethings who will get the additional tourist industry jobs that more cruise ships in the port will bring and the 30- and 40-somethings working in the ship-repair and other maritime industries still hanging on in San Francisco that will get work from the cruise lines.

Then, of course, there's these happy customers of Atlantis Cruises who appear likely to make it through the next 5 years or so:

http://www.atlantisevents.com/images/about_pic1.jpg
Source: http://www.atlantisevents.com/about.aspx

Ha! Yes of course they will. These people, including the happy ones too, should be around to enjoy it :haha:. There are so many different kinds of people who will benefit and enjoy having a new cruise terminal, including myself. As typical with so many different new projects coming to San Francisco, I can hardly wait to see all of them get completed.

I think I'd concider myself happy if this project actually sees the light of day within 5 years. Hopefully I can enjoy my first cruise here before I turn 25. However, I seriously doubt you'd see me among those guys, I'm not that crazy about it :haha:

dallasbrink
10-05-2007, 04:12 PM
Negative, it is one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCG_Defender_class_boat).

thats what i thought it was

SFView
10-05-2007, 06:01 PM
...I seriously doubt you'd see me among those guys, I'm not that crazy about it :haha:

Same here, but that's okay :haha:.



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