[Trae]

15 Largest Metropolitan Economies of The United States

New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA (CSA) $1,208.1 Billion
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA (CSA) $733.9 Billion
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI (CSA) (89176) $467.2 Billion
Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV (CSA) $465.6 Billion
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA (CSA) $437.2 Billion
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH (CSA) $339.1 Billion
Dallas-Ft Worth, TX (CSA) $318.3 Billion
Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX (CSA) $316.3 Billion
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD (CSA) $312.6 Billion
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL (CSA) $242.3 Billion
Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI (CSA) $233.4 BIllion
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL (MSA) $231.8 Billion
Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA (CSA) $201.3 Billion
Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI (CSA) $186.1 Billion
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ (MSA) $160.0 Billion

Released September 27, 2007 by The Bureau of Economic Analysis

The top three are a given. Dallas and Houston are neck and neck, and with energy growing like it is, I think Houston will surpass the Dallas economy next year. I am a little surprised to see Atlanta as low as it is. I thought it would be at least $270 billion, or so. Also, when will the L.A. region surpass the one trillion dollar economy? Will it ever happen?

Here are the Top 15 Metropolitan Economies, Per Capita GDP (made by bay_area at SSC):

15 Largest Metropolitan Economies of The United States, by Per Capita GDP

San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA (CSA) $60,908
Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX (CSA) $58,004
Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV (CSA) $57,072
New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA (CSA) $55,003
Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI (CSA) $53,708
Dallas-Ft Worth, TX (CSA) $51,554
Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA (CSA) $51,286
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD (CSA) $49,095
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI (CSA) (89176) $48,344
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL (CSA) $45,682
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH (CSA) $45,454
Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI (CSA) $43,086
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL (MSA) $42,735
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA (CSA) $41,604
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ (MSA) $41,258

[Joey D]

"Philadelphia Camden Vineland." What disrespect to Wilmington :/

[Aleks]

I had hopes that Seattle would be higher. Seeing that for a city this size it has a very good economy....

[Shawn]

"Philadelphia Camden Vineland." What disrespect to Wilmington :/

Haha how do you think Providence feels? Manchvegas gets billing ahead of it.

[mthd]

15 Largest Metropolitan Economies of The United States

New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA (CSA) $1,208.1 Billion
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA (CSA) $733.9 Billion
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI (CSA) (89176) $467.2 Billion
Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV (CSA) $465.6 Billion
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA (CSA) $437.2 Billion
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH (CSA) $339.1 Billion
Dallas-Ft Worth, TX (CSA) $318.3 Billion
...

Released September 27, 2007 by The Bureau of Economic Analysis

The top three are a given. ...

It's really the top two that are a given. I don't see those changing in the next 10-20 years. 3 through 5 are surprisingly close (7%) and I wouldn't be surprised to see them reshuffle themselves several times. I don't think any of the next 5 are growing fast enough to break into the top five for quite a while.

[Trae]

Houston can surpass DFW by next year. As long as the oil/energy industry keeps growing like it is. Medical is also doing very well here.

[Cirrus]

mthd has a point.

Chicago... $467.2 Billion
Washington... $465.6 Billion
It doesn't look like a given that Chicago will retail #3 forever.

[10023]

^ I'd suspect that Washington has been fed by the real estate boom in Northern VA and MD recently. That should slow down for a bit now. But overall the coasts are just so much more expensive that nominal GDP is higher. On a real GDP or PPP basis, it wouldn't be close.

[VivaLFuego]

^I assume the DC area also does better when the Federal government is on a spending binge, as it has been for the last several years. Obviously that will be cyclical as well.

[BTinSF]

{{Pant! Pant!}} Too busy to comment cranking out my share of that $60,908. :slob:

[TexasBoi]

Houston can surpass DFW by next year. As long as the oil/energy industry keeps growing like it is. Medical is also doing very well here.

They probably will flip back and forth as both economies are starting to grow.

[totheskies]

Philly is still way ahead of Phoenix in the money game.

[caltrane74]

I believe the Toronto GDP is about 360 Billion. So it would fit in nicely. However that figure is dated.

[totheskies]

Dallas-Ft Worth, TX (CSA) $318.3 Billion
Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX (CSA) $316.3 Billion

Three cheers for Houston!!

True we're two billion behind D/FW, but keep in mind that

-Houston is politically/ traditionally considered to be one metropolitan area, while Dallas/Fort Worth are considered as two (Fort Worth/ Tarrant County includes the super-burb of Arlington). But I do agree, it's great to see both Texas giants prospering at a friendly competitive pace :tup:

-Houston carries the second highest per capita income, but has the cheapest standard of living out of all the metros listed.

We get dancing bananas for this one.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Don B.]

Philly is still way ahead of Phoenix in the money game.

Well, of course:

1. Philly's metro population is over 6 million, ours is just passing 4 million;

2. Philly is a much older city with a lot more established money and industry. Phoenix is a much newer city and is still pretty much an economic backwater. We have very few commercial, legal and finance jobs. We have no federal reserve bank, for example, nor any sort of a stock market. We have very little corporate presence here - most of those businesses gravitated to bigger cities that got big long before Phoenix was much of anything in terms of size;

3. Phoenix is a much younger city (median age here is 31 years, compared to 34 for Philly) and younger people are not as well off financially compared to older people which have had more time to work and accumulate wealth.

4. Phoenix is a non-union town in a warm climate where people take less money to be able to live here. This is called the "sunshine discount" and both exert a downward pressure on wages and incomes, which further reduces the GDP of a given region.

--don

[totheskies]

Well, of course:

1. Philly's metro population is over 6 million, ours is just passing 4 million;

2. Philly is a much older city with a lot more established money and industry. Phoenix is a much newer city and is still pretty much an economic backwater. We have very few commercial, legal and finance jobs. We have no federal reserve bank, for example, nor any sort of a stock market. We have very little corporate presence here - most of those businesses gravitated to bigger cities that got big long before Phoenix was much of anything in terms of size;

3. Phoenix is a much younger city (median age here is 31 years, compared to 34 for Philly) and younger people are not as well off financially compared to older people which have had more time to work and accumulate wealth.

4. Phoenix is a non-union town in a warm climate where people take less money to be able to live here. This is called the "sunshine discount" and both exert a downward pressure on wages and incomes, which further reduces the GDP of a given region.

--don

Too true. What is the cost of living in Phoenix?

[Ex-Ithacan]

I believe the Toronto GDP is about 360 Billion. So it would fit in nicely. However that figure is dated.

Is that in Canadian or US $........oh wait, the Canadian is worth more now. Nevermind.

[VivaLFuego]

I'm never a huge fan of per capita income statistics because they are so easily skewed by being chock full of very wealthy tycoons (East and West Coasts) or by a relatively high or low percentage of recent unskilled poor immigrants (e.g. LA/Phoenix vs. Seattle).

Median Income is much more informative as to how the "average" person or household in a given area actually lives, even moreso if the median is then adjusted for purchasing power.

[volguus zildrohar]

"Philadelphia Camden Vineland." What disrespect to Wilmington :/

I do believe Wilmington is its own MSA now. It has its own economic field of gravity which is part of the reason it was broken off from Philadelphia's. Same for Atlantic City.

[dimondpark]

It's really the top two that are a given. I don't see those changing in the next 10-20 years. 3 through 5 are surprisingly close (7%) and I wouldn't be surprised to see them reshuffle themselves several times.

I think its safe to say that we arent done yet.:D


Modesto, CA (MSA) $13.8 Billion
Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Roseville, CA (MSA) $84.8 Billion
Salinas, CA (MSA) $16.4 Billion
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA (CSA) $437.2 Billion
Stockton, CA (MSA) $17.2 Billion

MegaloNorcal $569.9 Billion

[Don B.]

Too true. What is the cost of living in Phoenix?

According to www.salary.com:

The cost of living in Philadelphia, PA is 17.4% higher than in Phoenix, AZ. Employers in Philadelphia, PA typically pay 9.8% more than employers in Phoenix, AZ.

Based on what I know, I think Phoenix's real estate prices are now a little higher than Philly's, but the taxes here are much lower.

--don

[Capsule F]

Philly close to double of Phoenix's GDP.

[arbeiter]

4. Phoenix is a non-union town in a warm climate where people take less money to be able to live here. This is called the "sunshine discount" and both exert a downward pressure on wages and incomes, which further reduces the GDP of a given region.

--don

The median sales price of existing homes in Philadelphia metro is $218,000 and in Phoenix it's $268,000. Philadelphia's per-capita GDP of $49K is higher than Phoenix's $41K. When you factor that in, plus cheaper gas and likely shorter commuting distances, the property and income tax negatives of Pennsylvania even out. So I don't think it takes less money to live there, at least not compared to its often-paired cousin on the seaboard.

[arbeiter]

According to www.salary.com:

The cost of living in Philadelphia, PA is 17.4% higher than in Phoenix, AZ. Employers in Philadelphia, PA typically pay 9.8% more than employers in Phoenix, AZ.

Based on what I know, I think Phoenix's real estate prices are now a little higher than Philly's, but the taxes here are much lower.

--don

What about comparing the cost of living in Moorestown, NJ or Blue Bell, PA to Phoenix? Phoenix is such a large amoeba of suburban sprawl, that comparing Philly directly to Phoenix might not be totally realistic. The taxes in Bucks County are quite lower than Philadelphia city.

[roadwarrior]

The top 15 metro areas by GDP measured by mean skews the total upwards. Houston is a prime example of this. There probably are a significant number of people in the oil business there that are making a killing. However, the median income there is fairly low and not #2 in the nation.

[ocman]

These are just a bunch of numbers. Where is the original link to this data?

[Trae]

The top 15 metro areas by GDP measured by mean skews the total upwards. Houston is a prime example of this. There probably are a significant number of people in the oil business there that are making a killing. However, the median income there is fairly low and not #2 in the nation.

You know this how?

[Capt AWACS]

The top 15 metro areas by GDP measured by mean skews the total upwards. Houston is a prime example of this. There probably are a significant number of people in the oil business there that are making a killing. However, the median income there is fairly low and not #2 in the nation.

and your basis for this ignorant statement is what exactly? Being that less than Half of Houston's economy is Energy based? I am sure all those rich doctors at the worlds largest Medical Center in Houston also skews things and the rich pilots at Continental airlines, and the rich computer folks at BMC and Compaq....:rolleyes:

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Europe, we have no easy button

[totheskies]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior
"The top 15 metro areas by GDP measured by mean skews the total upwards. Houston is a prime example of this. There probably are a significant number of people in the oil business there that are making a killing. However, the median income there is fairly low and not #2 in the nation."

and your basis for this ignorant statement is what exactly? Being that less than Half of Houston's economy is Energy based? I am sure all those rich doctors at the worlds largest Medical Center in Houston also skews things and the rich pilots at Continental airlines, and the rich computer folks at BMC and Compaq....

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Europe, we have no easy button


...Hip- hop industry, in which the music scene is literally "self sufficient"; thriving contemporary arts scene, and let's face it- Religion is BIG BUSINESS in this town. The megachurch factor alone skews the earned income b/c they don't claim half of what they make.

[10023]

and your basis for this ignorant statement is what exactly? Being that less than Half of Houston's economy is Energy based? I am sure all those rich doctors at the worlds largest Medical Center in Houston also skews things and the rich pilots at Continental airlines, and the rich computer folks at BMC and Compaq....:rolleyes:


Pilots, most doctors and computer engineers aren't exactly rich, but he really should show numbers along with the statement.

However, that doesn't mean he isn't completely right. This data is a few years old, but I doubt things have changed much. Maybe someone with more time on their hands can find newer estimates - I just did a Google search and picked the result from the census.gov website.

Houston is #50 in median household income at ~$36,000/year. San Jose is still #1 at ~$70,000/year.

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2003/R07T160.htm

[VivaLFuego]

Ranked by median household income
1 San Francisco--Oakland--San Jose, CA CMSA 7,039,362 $62,024
2 Washington--Baltimore, DC--MD--VA--WV CMSA 7,608,070 $57,291
3 Anchorage, AK MSA 260,283 $55,546
4 Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN--WI MSA 3,368,806 $54,304
5 Boston--Worcester--Lawrence, MA--NH--ME--CT CMSA 5,819,101 $52,792
6 Hartford, CT MSA 1,183,110 $52,188
7 Atlanta, GA MSA 4,112,198 $51,948
8 Honolulu, HI MSA 876,156 $51,914
9 Rochester, MN MSA 124,277 $51,316
10 Denver--Boulder--Greeley, CO CMSA 2,581,506 $51,088
11 Chicago--Gary--Kenosha, IL--IN--WI CMSA 9,157,540 $51,046
12 New York--Northern New Jersey--Long Island, NY--NJ--CT--PA CMSA 21,199,865 $50,795
13 Seattle--Tacoma--Bremerton, WA CMSA 3,554,760 $50,733
14 New London--Norwich, CT--RI MSA 293,566 $49,283
15 Madison, WI MSA 426,526 $49,223
16 Detroit--Ann Arbor--Flint, MI CMSA 5,456,428 $49,160
17 Austin--San Marcos, TX MSA 1,249,763 $48,950
18 Raleigh--Durham--Chapel Hill, NC MSA 1,187,941 $48,845
19 Fort Collins--Loveland, CO MSA 251,494 $48,655
20 Salt Lake City--Ogden, UT MSA 1,333,914 $48,594
21 Salinas, CA MSA 401,762 $48,305
22 Naples, FL MSA 251,377 $48,289
23 Philadelphia--Wilmington--Atlantic City, PA--NJ--DE--MD CMSA 6,188,463 $47,528
24 Appleton--Oshkosh--Neenah, WI MSA 358,365 $47,438
25 Dallas--Fort Worth, TX CMSA 5,221,801 $47,418
26 San Diego, CA MSA 2,813,833 $47,067
27 Bloomington--Normal, IL MSA 150,433 $47,021
28 Colorado Springs, CO MSA 516,929 $46,844
29 Richmond--Petersburg, VA MSA 996,512 $46,800
30 Burlington, VT MSA 169,391 $46,732
31 Santa Barbara--Santa Maria--Lompoc, CA MSA 399,347 $46,677
32 Des Moines, IA MSA 456,022 $46,651
33 Green Bay, WI MSA 226,778 $46,447
34 Sheboygan, WI MSA 112,646 $46,237
35 Cedar Rapids, IA MSA 191,701 $46,206
36 Kansas City, MO--KS MSA 1,776,062 $46,193
37 Milwaukee--Racine, WI CMSA 1,689,572 $46,132
38 Charlotte--Gastonia--Rock Hill, NC--SC MSA 1,499,293 $46,119
39 Grand Rapids--Muskegon--Holland, MI MSA 1,088,514 $46,116
40 Sacramento--Yolo, CA CMSA 1,796,857 $46,106
41 Portland--Salem, OR--WA CMSA 2,265,223 $46,090
42 Barnstable--Yarmouth, MA MSA 162,591 $46,034
43 Los Angeles--Riverside--Orange County, CA CMSA 16,373,645 $45,903
44 Provo--Orem, UT MSA 368,536 $45,833
45 Santa Fe, NM MSA 147,635 $45,822
46 Reno, NV MSA 339,486 $45,815
47 Indianapolis, IN MSA 1,607,486 $45,548
48 Janesville--Beloit, WI MSA 152,307 $45,517
49 Lancaster, PA MSA 470,658 $45,507
50 York, PA MSA 381,751 $45,268
51 Wausau, WI MSA 125,834 $45,165
52 West Palm Beach--Boca Raton, FL MSA 1,131,184 $45,062
53 Rockford, IL MSA 371,236 $44,988
54 Omaha, NE--IA MSA 716,998 $44,981
55 Cincinnati--Hamilton, OH--KY--IN CMSA 1,979,202 $44,914
56 Richland--Kennewick--Pasco, WA MSA 191,822 $44,886
57 Columbus, OH MSA 1,540,157 $44,782
58 Houston--Sugar Land--Baytown, TX MSA 4,669,571 $44,761
59 Phoenix--Mesa, AZ MSA 3,251,876 $44,752
60 Reading, PA MSA 373,638 $44,714
61 Portland, ME MSA 243,544 $44,707
62 Kokomo, IN MSA 101,541 $44,531
63 Elkhart--Goshen, IN MSA 182,791 $44,478
64 Lansing--East Lansing, MI MSA 447,728 $44,441
65 St. Louis, MO--IL MSA 2,603,607 $44,437
66 Charlottesville, VA MSA 159,576 $44,356
67 Nashville, TN MSA 1,231,311 $44,223
68 Rochester, NY MSA 1,098,201 $43,955
69 Sioux Falls, SD MSA 172,412 $43,387
70 Albany--Schenectady--Troy, NY MSA 875,583 $43,250
71 Springfield, IL MSA 201,437 $43,180
72 Jackson, MI MSA 158,422 $43,171
73 Huntsville, AL MSA 342,376 $43,104
74 Allentown--Bethlehem--Easton, PA-NJ MSA 637,958 $43,098
75 Harrisburg--Lebanon--Carlisle, PA MSA 629,401 $43,022



Like I stated in my previous post....I think this is much more meaningful. You'll notice that the ones on top generally are the ones with a much lower level of low-skill, low-income immigration, and a lower-percentage of African-Americans. The 'whitest' cities like Anchorage, Minneapolis, Boston, Seattle, feature prominently. The diverse cities of Denver, Chicago, Atlanta, Austin, Detroit (!) and NYNJ actually look quite good by this measure.

[10023]

Like I stated in my previous post....I think this is much more meaningful. You'll notice that the ones on top generally are the ones with a much lower level of low-skill, low-income immigration, and a lower-percentage of African-Americans. The 'whitest' cities like Anchorage, Minneapolis, Boston, Seattle, feature prominently. The diverse cities of Denver, Chicago, Atlanta, Austin, Detroit (!) and NYNJ actually look quite good by this measure.
Anchorage doesn't really count, because it includes the several thousand dollars a year each resident gets from the federal government for living in Alaska.

Chicago and obviously New York have massive amounts of professionals in finance, law, etc. that outweigh their massive populations of immigrants and inner city poor.

Atlanta is very suburban and Austin isn't really that diverse. Detroit still has money in the suburbs but virtually none in the city... in fact that city proper has the 3rd lowest median income in the country per the link I posted. Only inner city Miami and Cleveland are poorer (and I bet new condo construction has pushed Miami past Detroit in the last few years).

[Capt AWACS]

Pilots, most doctors and computer engineers aren't exactly rich, but he really should show numbers along with the statement.

However, that doesn't mean he isn't completely right. This data is a few years old, but I doubt things have changed much. Maybe someone with more time on their hands can find newer estimates - I just did a Google search and picked the result from the census.gov website.

Houston is #50 in median household income at ~$36,000/year. San Jose is still #1 at ~$70,000/year.

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2003/R07T160.htm


So are you comparing CSA's and MSAs? One can go around to a dozen different cities and pick and choose jobs they want to include. We could put up lists then adjusting this to cost of living and see what happens also? The point is it is all subjective. And the premise of the post below is based on selective judgment.

Pilots, and doctors and constantly ranked on the top 25 of highest paid jobs in the US. yes starting out it is not as bad but the upward mobility is very high.


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I'd like to supersize that with a diet coke

[totheskies]

Anchorage doesn't really count, because it includes the several thousand dollars a year each resident gets from the federal government for living in Alaska.

Chicago and obviously New York have massive amounts of professionals in finance, law, etc. that outweigh their massive populations of immigrants and inner city poor.

Atlanta is very suburban and Austin isn't really that diverse. Detroit still has money in the suburbs but virtually none in the city... in fact that city proper has the 3rd lowest median income in the country per the link I posted. Only inner city Miami and Cleveland are poorer (and I bet new condo construction has pushed Miami past Detroit in the last few years).


have you ever been outside of New York???? Do you care to travel outside of the city? Is it really the only place that exists?????????

[VivaLFuego]

Austin isn't really that diverse


Less diverse than NYC, LA, or Chi, sure, but it's still over 40% minority (black+hispanic+asian).

[dallasbrink]

Houston can surpass DFW by next year. As long as the oil/energy industry keeps growing like it is. Medical is also doing very well here.

Its going to be all about Houston and Dallas soon, with the amount of business coming into the cities with asian shipping routs electing to go threw the Panama Canal and docking in Houston and trucking everything to the major Rail yards in Dallas and Fort Worth to get things out to the East coast faster then the LA ports can.

[edluva]

Its going to be all about Houston and Dallas soon, with the amount of business coming into the cities with asian shipping routs electing to go threw the Panama Canal and docking in Houston and trucking everything to the major Rail yards in Dallas and Fort Worth to get things out to the East coast faster then the LA ports can.

um, not likely. as long as rail transport remains economically feasible, shipping will generally forgo the additional 4-5 thousand miles required to go all the way down to central america and back again, just to save what, 1300 miles of land route? That's the reason vancouver and seattle grew into major seaports in their own right. asian shipping routes generally hug the northern pac-rim, and LA/LB will always be much closer in this respect.

[Trae]

Its going to be all about Houston and Dallas soon, with the amount of business coming into the cities with asian shipping routs electing to go threw the Panama Canal and docking in Houston and trucking everything to the major Rail yards in Dallas and Fort Worth to get things out to the East coast faster then the LA ports can.

Not everything will be going to DFW. The ships, customs, and deciding where they will go will happen in Houston. Then, it will be shipped from here to DFW to be shipped elsewhere. The rail yards in South Dallas is more like an extension of the Port of Houston.

[edluva]

Being that less than Half of Houston's economy is Energy based?

well, technically it's less than half, but not by much. And rich doctors are everywhere, what city doesn't have em? You cite this as though medicine were as disproportionately large an economic engine as IT were for the silicon valley. TMC is large mostly by virtue of having all of the metro's major insitutions in a single site. Big deal, I don't understand why texans cite this as if it were some sort of accomplishment. Size doesn't necessarily equate to quality. though to be sure, there are some great facilities there - md anderson being one.

[totheskies]

well, technically it's less than half, but not by much. And rich doctors are everywhere, what city doesn't have em? You cite this as though medicine were as disproportionately large an economic engine as IT were for the silicon valley. TMC is large mostly by virtue of having all of the metro's major insitutions in a single site. Big deal, I don't understand why texans cite this as if it were some sort of accomplishment. Size doesn't necessarily equate to quality. though to be sure, there are some great facilities there - md anderson being one.

It obviously has its good and bad points, but in times of crisis, it helps to have specialists in every imaginable field around the same area. I would bet that fact alone has saved many lives in the Medical Center. There's alot more there than fat-cat doctors, too. With all of the Med schools, there's plenty of ground-breaking collaborative research being done too.

Of course Houston can't hold a candle to LA for cosmetic surgeries :tup:

[edluva]

the most amazing figure on this list is that for NY imo. a metro of its size should not have such a high per-capita GDP, but it does anyways.

[edluva]

It obviously has its good and bad points, but in times of crisis, it helps to have specialists in every imaginable field around the same area. I would bet that fact alone has saved many lives in the Medical Center. There's alot more there than fat-cat doctors, too. With all of the Med schools, there's plenty of ground-breaking collaborative research being done too.

Of course Houston can't hold a candle to LA for cosmetic surgeries :tup:

well, not even nearly all of the specialties in the TMC are at the top of the heap. I can probably cite more top twenty specialties at UCLA med center alone than in all of the TMC, so it's not just cosmetic surgeries which your candle cannot be held against. Which goes again to show the proverbial size-whoring tendency does not guarantee quality.

and regarding med schools, aside from baylor, there really aren't many top-notch research-oriented med schools in houston to note. UT southwestern is the other good texan one, but it's in dallas. kinda disappointing for "the world's largest med center" if you ask me. look to california and the northeast for "groundbreaking collaborative research" - at least with regards to the "hardcore" areas of translational and basic research (and especially for stem cell research)

[totheskies]

Well I certainly wasn't looking for a fight, nor did I wish to discredit the levels of research being done in LA for all types of medicine. I was just poking fun, but oh yeah, this is SSP....

US News and World Report ratings and saving lives are two different things, so I wouldn't assume that there's not quality work being done in the Texas Medical Center, or anywhere else in the country. Bottom line is, for Houston, that is a major staple of our economy.

[edluva]

oh i wasn't picking a fight either, i was just clarifying any misunderstandings which might have arisen from optimistically over-generalized statements about the role that the doctors of the TMC play in metro houston's broader economy, and the potentially false implication that being "worlds largest" of anything might have.

and i totally agree that ratings are not directly related to the number of lives saved, though i have to credit the fact that much of their study methodology is relevant to the quality of healthcare provided, after all, that is their intent.

[Capt AWACS]

well, not even nearly all of the specialties in the TMC are at the top of the heap. I can probably cite more top twenty specialties at UCLA med center alone than in all of the TMC, so it's not just cosmetic surgeries which your candle cannot be held against. Which goes again to show the proverbial size-whoring tendency does not guarantee quality.

and regarding med schools, aside from baylor, there really aren't many top-notch research-oriented med schools in houston to note. UT southwestern is the other good texan one, but it's in dallas. kinda disappointing for "the world's largest med center" if you ask me. look to california and the northeast for "groundbreaking collaborative research" - at least with regards to the "hardcore" areas of translational and basic research (and especially for stem cell research)

I am not sure what sources you site but TMC has several of the highest ranked centres internationally and doctors in literally dozens of specialties. And it has no bearing on the fact of Houston's hospitals being one place or another. The TMC is not organised as some mismatch of hospitals. As a medical industry lobbyist I have seen more than my share of companies and cities for that matter lobby for money and projects. Houston is getting more money in the next few medical budgets than most cities-another factor relating to my money comments on this thread.

Houston actually has the same amount of hospitals strewn about town as any other city, your assumption there is incorrect. Aside from the fact I know the folks at Texas Children's because my wife did part of her residency there- Texas children's is noted as one of the best by AAP (as just one example)
M.D. Anderson #1 Cancer Centre in the world by US News.
Texas Woman's has 3 of the #1 Doctor's in the US by woman's specialty,
not to even start into the research rankings and dollar funding that goes into TMC. One could go on and on, but here in Italy for example TMC is one of the most known centres in medical schools and research. John's Hoppy, Sinai, yes there are others also but not many. Just another small example of how the TMC is known more than some here intimate. No, Houston is not big on a stem cell research, but is huge in plenty of other areas with-in genetics, and cancer and so on, but I know this is not a medical thread.

Plenty of cities have great hospitals and research institutions sure; Houston has more than its share and the impact of the medical industry on the Houston metro economy is noted in major percentages, not dollars for doctors or the like (and more than many cities on that list including Dallas). I was not noting and referencing doctor salaries. I lobby for a medical company and can tell you what all our doc's make- I was talking about impact of the doctors and research and intuitions as a whole. With the multibillion dollar expansion for more genetic research lab and school expansions, Texas' Children expansion and so on, the money (which this thread is relative too) will continue to increase more so than in a metro like Dallas, with less research dollars.

As for plastic surgery, well the breast implant was invented in Houston so LA should be thankful :banana:

Ciao, and Hook ‘em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Should it burn when I pee

[Trae]

I am not sure what sources you site but TMC has several of the highest ranked centres internationally and doctors in literally dozens of specialties. And it has no bearing on the fact of Houston's hospitals being one place or another. The TMC is not organised as some mismatch of hospitals. As a medical industry lobbyist I have seen more than my share of companies and cities for that matter lobby for money and projects. Houston is getting more money in the next few medical budgets than most cities-another factor relating to my money comments on this thread.

Houston actually has the same amount of hospitals strewn about town as any other city, your assumption there is incorrect. Aside from the fact I know the folks at Texas Children's because my wife did part of her residency there- Texas children's is noted as one of the best by AAP (as just one example)
M.D. Anderson #1 Cancer Centre in the world by US News.
Texas Woman's has 3 of the #1 Doctor's in the US by woman's specialty,
not to even start into the research rankings and dollar funding that goes into TMC. One could go on and on, but here in Italy for example TMC is one of the most known centres in medical schools and research. John's Hoppy, Sinai, yes there are others also but not many. Just another small example of how the TMC is known more than some here intimate. No, Houston is not big on a stem cell research, but is huge in plenty of other areas with-in genetics, and cancer and so on, but I know this is not a medical thread.

Plenty of cities have great hospitals and research institutions sure; Houston has more than its share and the impact of the medical industry on the Houston metro economy is noted in major percentages, not dollars for doctors or the like (and more than many cities on that list including Dallas). I was not noting and referencing doctor salaries. I lobby for a medical company and can tell you what all our doc's make- I was talking about impact of the doctors and research and intuitions as a whole. With the multibillion dollar expansion for more genetic research lab and school expansions, Texas' Children expansion and so on, the money (which this thread is relative too) will continue to increase more so than in a metro like Dallas, with less research dollars.

As for plastic surgery, well the breast implant was invented in Houston so LA should be thankful :banana:

Ciao, and Hook ‘em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Should it burn when I pee

Said it better than I could.

[edluva]

I am not sure what sources you site but TMC has several of the highest ranked centres internationally and doctors in literally dozens of specialties. And it has no bearing on the fact of Houston's hospitals being one place or another. The TMC is not organised as some mismatch of hospitals. As a medical industry lobbyist I have seen more than my share of companies and cities for that matter lobby for money and projects. Houston is getting more money in the next few medical budgets than most cities-another factor relating to my money comments on this thread.

Houston actually has the same amount of hospitals strewn about town as any other city, your assumption there is incorrect. Aside from the fact I know the folks at Texas Children's because my wife did part of her residency there- Texas children's is noted as one of the best by AAP (as just one example)
M.D. Anderson #1 Cancer Centre in the world by US News.
Texas Woman's has 3 of the #1 Doctor's in the US by woman's specialty,
not to even start into the research rankings and dollar funding that goes into TMC. One could go on and on, but here in Italy for example TMC is one of the most known centres in medical schools and research. John's Hoppy, Sinai, yes there are others also but not many. Just another small example of how the TMC is known more than some here intimate. No, Houston is not big on a stem cell research, but is huge in plenty of other areas with-in genetics, and cancer and so on, but I know this is not a medical thread.

Plenty of cities have great hospitals and research institutions sure; Houston has more than its share and the impact of the medical industry on the Houston metro economy is noted in major percentages, not dollars for doctors or the like (and more than many cities on that list including Dallas). I was not noting and referencing doctor salaries. I lobby for a medical company and can tell you what all our doc's make- I was talking about impact of the doctors and research and intuitions as a whole. With the multibillion dollar expansion for more genetic research lab and school expansions, Texas' Children expansion and so on, the money (which this thread is relative too) will continue to increase more so than in a metro like Dallas, with less research dollars.

As for plastic surgery, well the breast implant was invented in Houston so LA should be thankful :banana:

Ciao, and Hook ‘em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Should it burn when I pee



thanks for the reply, but aside from a lot of generalized statements, i'd like to see some specific medical specialties and research areas aside from oncology (MD Anderson) and perhaps infectious diseases, which are highly ranked, and then see how much money and how many doctors are required for this to happen. you're a lobbyist so i'm sure you have access to this. i'm sure TMC is a nice place, but it's role in medicine and basic research is nowhere near reflective of the place's size.

as a researcher and phD candidate myself I know for certain that TMC does not play a particularly large role in the basic sciences. This may be explained by the fact that about 570 million in annual research spending is diffused over such a large center, most of which goes toward the clinical arena, an area of research more akin to detective work than innovation. UCLA for example, spent about 780 million - across a much smaller and presumably more productive (talented) group of researchers, a larger share of which consists of million-dollar multi-year basic research awards, and not those token sub $100,000 "community health" studies which while important too, are by no means indicative or "research prowess". You also mention hopkins, an institution which garnered over a billion last year just in the bio/life sciences. Both of these are much smaller institutions with much more prominently respected international roles in basic life and health sciences research, in addition to what is considered the superior quality of of bench-to-beside medical care. Again, in spite of their size. For example, relative to UCLA, USC (still a major research center in its own right) is an inferior med center, for example, despite being much larger than UCLA.

don't get me wrong, TMC is no slouch, but with regards to quality, it's not necessarily better than grouping all of LA's pretty good med centers into a single place. It's not what one would expect from its size or its oft-touted synergy, and it's not what one would expect from reading your posts, for example.

Another note. I wonder if it's necessarily better care if a metro has more hospital beds rather than an emphasis on preventative coverage such that people don't end up with prolonged hospital stays to begin with. I'm sure you're aware that it's a contentious public health issue which often overlaps the dividing line between the conservative-biased laissez-faire healthcare currently in play, and a more liberal-oriented "socialized" system. Life expectancies don't lie. But that's for another thread.

[Trae]

It isn't like there are not other large medical centers around the Houston metro area. The TMC is just by far the largest.

[Capt AWACS]

but it's role in medicine and basic research is nowhere near reflective of the place's size.


I wasn't saying it was. My thread response was talking about money in relation to economies on this list. Research dollars are not the only thing that add to a city's economy being discussed in this thread, though very important. For example, The Jan 1 Texas workman's comp law change alone is already seeing more money flowing into several institutions and doctor's offices in Texas. And TMC is getting a multi-billion dollar expansion to Texas Children's, M.D. Anderson (for research), and the VA. This is predicted to add 1000's of research jobs and 1000's more in the general health industry adding to health and the TMC's percentage in the Houston list.

As for rankings, yes I have seen more than my share (god knows people send me so much crap it is kindling for the fire sometimes) from nearly every organisation one could think of. Academy of Pedicatrics comes to mind for Texas children's (though IIRC US News had them around 5 or 6 this year).
Texas Heart Institute and the Cleveland clinic the top two in federal funding for all general heart research this last fiscal year. I haven't seen the magazine, just online snippets (and I don't put stock in all US News does for anything mind you) but I think TMC has institutions ranked in the top ten in about half the list and hospitals in the top 25 on nearly all lists. More so than say Dallas, which was a reference above (by another poster)

that people don't end up with prolonged hospital stays to begin with. I'm sure you're aware that it's a contentious public health issue which often overlaps the dividing line between the conservative-biased laissez-faire healthcare currently in play, and a more liberal-oriented "socialized" system.
I agree 100% but would add the insurance industry and managed health industry/lobby/interests into the sentance when related to "systems". Manged care decisions can play a bigger role than some would like. It is starting to be a problem here in Italy as well and that is with a socialised system which is for another thread...


Ciao,
AWACS

[edluva]

actually, med-specialty wise, TMC does not have many highly ranked disciplines. You're referring to institution-wide rankings, and even then I'm not sure there are nearly as many as you've stated unless you're focusing solely on per-institution research grants but regardless, you're main point has been on economics not medical innovation, so back to the thread topic...

[Capt AWACS]

actually, med-specialty wise, TMC does not have many highly ranked disciplines. You're referring to institution-wide rankings, and even then I'm not sure there are nearly as many as you've stated unless you're focusing solely on per-institution research grants but regardless, you're main point has been on economics not medical innovation, so back to the thread topic...

I and the many doctors I know would tend to disagree. What ranking agencies are you refering too? What disciplines? What do you consider high? I finally found a way to see US News from a foreign IP, and I was correct TMC has plenty of institutions in the top ten and one on nearly every specialty.

Pediatrics, Oconolgy, Gynocology all very highly ranked by a multitude of agencies and already noted above, and there are many others. I don't have any of my literature here at home in Italy but upon my return to the States I can find others rankings and publications-they are out there. I see Child Magazine has Texas Children's as top 5 again, for example.

The patents coming out of Houston are some of the highest in the US and plenty of innovation has come out of TMC from Dr Michael DeBakey one of the best around in pioneering surgery, first civilian Life Flight, implants for cancer patients, new translational medicine research-the list goes on.

But yes this is about money, though I am not looking at research grant money lists I am looking at quality lists however as you said that is basically for another thread. As the TMC expansion continues and the amount of pledged research money continues to flow, it will only add to TMC's effect on Houston's overall growth on the list.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe, que la vida es breve

[sprtsluvr8]

Atlanta is very suburban and Austin isn't really that diverse. Detroit still has money in the suburbs but virtually none in the city... in fact that city proper has the 3rd lowest median income in the country per the link I posted. Only inner city Miami and Cleveland are poorer (and I bet new condo construction has pushed Miami past Detroit in the last few years).

I have read this statement several times and I still can't quite relate it to the topic. "Atlanta is very suburban" - I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by saying this. Atlanta HAS suburbs just like every other city in the U.S., but there is a large city sitting in the middle and the city of Atlanta is not suburban. The suburbs are suburban.

If the Texas Medical Center is ranked highly in certain areas then that's great...and I would expect someone living in Houston to be aware of it. But the reputation probably isn't going to get much further than the state of Texas, so people in Boston may not know much about it. I think that's pretty common really...I know which Atlanta hospitals are the supposed to be the best and what specialties some of them are known for, but I couldn't tell you much about highly ranked medical centers in other states other than the very famous ones (Johns Hopkins, Mayo, etc)

[Capt AWACS]

I

If the Texas Medical Center is ranked highly in certain areas then that's great...and I would expect someone living in Houston to be aware of it. But the reputation probably isn't going to get much further than the state of Texas, so people in Boston may not know much about it. I think that's pretty common really...I know which Atlanta hospitals are the supposed to be the best and what specialties some of them are known for, but I couldn't tell you much about highly ranked medical centers in other states other than the very famous ones (Johns Hopkins, Mayo, etc)

Well I am not in Houston, I am in Europe and every doctor I know here knows TMC, and your statement basically says you know little about medical study or industry. For example, There is a reason thousands of foreign students flock to the TMC for training each year. In fact the State Department started a H visa processing desk just for med students going to 5 cities- Boston, New York, LA, Baltimore and Houston.
Just because you haven't heard of it, doesen't mean people in the industry don't know about it. Most anyone in the medical industry could tell you the main centres in the USA.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Io sono il capo di tutti capi tesoro

[The Agonist]

I have read this statement several times and I still can't quite relate it to the topic. "Atlanta is very suburban" - I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by saying this. Atlanta HAS suburbs just like every other city in the U.S., but there is a large city sitting in the middle and the city of Atlanta is not suburban. The suburbs are suburban.

If the Texas Medical Center is ranked highly in certain areas then that's great...and I would expect someone living in Houston to be aware of it. But the reputation probably isn't going to get much further than the state of Texas, so people in Boston may not know much about it. I think that's pretty common really...I know which Atlanta hospitals are the supposed to be the best and what specialties some of them are known for, but I couldn't tell you much about highly ranked medical centers in other states other than the very famous ones (Johns Hopkins, Mayo, etc)

Here are the top 20 in 2007 according to US news.

1 Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore 30 points in 15 specialties
2 Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. 29 points in 15 specialties
3 UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles 25 points in 15 specialties
4 Cleveland Clinic 25 points in 13 specialties
5 Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 23 points in 12 specialties
6 New York-Presbyterian Univ. Hosp. of Columbia and Cornell
21 points in 11 specialties
7 Duke University Medical Center, Durham, N.C.18 points in 10 specialties
7 University of California, San Francisco Medical Center 18 points in 10 specialties
9 Barnes-Jewish Hospital/Washington University, St. Louis 17 points in 11 specialties
10 Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston 16 points in 10 specialties
11 University of Washington Medical Center, Seattle 15 points in 9 specialties
12 Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia 11 points in 8 specialties
13 University of Pittsburgh Medical Center 10 points in 7 specialties
14 University of Michigan Hospitals and Health Centers, Ann Arbor 9 points in 7 specialties
15 Stanford Hospital and Clinics, Stanford, Calif. 8 points in 6 specialties
15 Yale-New Haven Hospital, New Haven, Conn.
8 points in 6 specialties
17 Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles 7 points in 6 specialties
17 University of Chicago Medical Center 7 points in 6 specialties

[BTinSF]

Here are the top 20 in 2007 according to US news.

1 Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore 30 points in 15 specialties
2 Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. 29 points in 15 specialties
3 UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles 25 points in 15 specialties
4 Cleveland Clinic 25 points in 13 specialties
5 Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 23 points in 12 specialties
6 New York-Presbyterian Univ. Hosp. of Columbia and Cornell
21 points in 11 specialties
7 Duke University Medical Center, Durham, N.C.18 points in 10 specialties
7 University of California, San Francisco Medical Center 18 points in 10 specialties


Well, for what it's worth, I am an alum of Johns Hopkins (BA, pre-med), Duke (Med School) and UCSF (post-grad training) and I've got a lot of respect for TMC.

[sprtsluvr8]

Well I am not in Houston, I am in Europe and every doctor I know here knows TMC, and your statement basically says you know little about medical study or industry. For example, There is a reason thousands of foreign students flock to the TMC for training each year. In fact the State Department started a H visa processing desk just for med students going to 5 cities- Boston, New York, LA, Baltimore and Houston.
Just because you haven't heard of it, doesen't mean people in the industry don't know about it. Most anyone in the medical industry could tell you the main centres in the USA.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Io sono il capo di tutti capi tesoro

Do you think most people are in the medical field? MOST people aren't in the medical field...duh...you're the one that added "people in the industry" to that statement. I assumed we were talking about people in general...the majority of the population is in the many other fields besides medicine.

EVERY doctor in Europe is familar with TMC? I doubt every doctor in Europe is familiar with Texas, much less it's medical facility. I didn't say I had never heard of your little medical shack - it's discussed to death on this forum, so there's no way I could not know about Texas Medical Center (You do know that being the biggest doesn't automatically mean the best right?). All I was trying to say was that everyone doesn't study which cities have the highest ranking hospitals...there no pressing need to know. Many, many more cities than those 5 have excellent health care facilities, but I don't need to convince people in Houston that Emory University hospitals in my city are top notch - I know they are and it's not up for debate.

I thought my post was very diplomatic and sensitive as to not offend people about their city, yet you come back with that condescending crap about how much you know and how much I don't know. We're all very impressed that you're in Europe and that you have knowledge of the medical industry. You and Texas Medical Center win.

Now if we start talking about Education, which is my field, I predict I would win...okay I'm being sarcastic, but the maturity level of this discussion has taken an unexpected dive and I had just joined it...so adios.

[Capt AWACS]

Thanks BT, the thing with the TMC, is it is made of dozens of Hospitals of differing specialites--- some folks do not realise that.
Like M.D. Anderson as the number 1 cancer hospital in the world, Texas children's as a top 5 kids hospital etc &c.

Of course single large research and teaching hospitals are going to have the most specialties, no doubt.

For single units Hopkins, Mayo, UCLA etc have by far the most single specialty ratings at one institution and are some of the best bar none. TMC's various institutions also have high rankings in various fields, that is the main point some of us above are making.
Since this list and thread is about money, I feel the continued growth of the TMC, and massive expansion expenditures will boast the Houston metro numbers in years to come. Energy is less than half of the metro economy now, which is good. Houston has a large transportation based economy also, computers etc. It is more diverse than some give it credit for. This is what several posters were getting at above. I've seen over the years that some folks on this forum have an anti sun-belt bias that can leak into other discussions (not you edluva or anyone in particular here mind you) and cause folks to form misguided opinions. Some people will not change, others will do more research and re-think things. This is the beauty of the forums IMO, but I am rambling.

Didn't realise you were an M.D. BT, nice to know you are around. My wife's soon to be boss at Texas Children's was a Dukie ;) But my wife has to re-do her residency since the US doesn't recognise most European ones (and she is having to do the USMLE). Painful but needed I guess.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, flying the black silent helicopters around Jasonhouse's home

[Capt AWACS]

Do you think most people are in the medical field? MOST people aren't in the medical field...duh...you're the one that added "people in the industry" to that statement.

Well, let's see, it is people in the industry that write the various journals and rankings so it is a valid point.


I assumed we were talking about people in general...the majority of the population is in the many other fields besides medicine.

never assume, I am sure you have heard that one before. and actually a large amount of US non-service industry is related to medicine and health care.

EVERY doctor in Europe is familar with TMC? I doubt every doctor in Europe is familiar with Texas, much less it's medical facility.

Unlike American's Europeans know Georgraphy and are more well read in general, so yes basically every person of any limited education in Europe knows of Texas and in Italy for example all the medical schools in the country-Every single one has American staff who worked at TMC at one time so yes some of the countries do.

I didn't say I had never heard of your little medical shack
Wow, quite the nerve one has hit huh. thanks for saying it is mine and trynig to be condescending but it is not my shack. I simply exist on the forum to promote fact. sorry that bothers you.

- it's discussed to death on this forum, so there's no way I could not know about Texas Medical Center (You do know that being the biggest doesn't automatically mean the best right?).
Yes, like Delta at ATL..... seriously though, I don't know of anyone that said biggest is best. Could you please do us a favour and provide quotes or maybe re-evaluate your comments. Some of said being big provided benefits to the economy on a scale different than other metros, which is not what you say above.

All I was trying to say was that everyone doesn't study which cities have the highest ranking hospitals...there no pressing need to know. Many, many more cities than those 5 have excellent health care facilities, but I don't need to convince people in Houston that Emory University hospitals in my city are top notch
Well I don't know anyone in Houston that needs to go to Emory for care but you can try if you have some free time. Your statement above has no bearing on the discussion though.

- I know they are and it's not up for debate.
In the real world you can debate anything. 7th grade L/D teachs us that.

I thought my post was very diplomatic and sensitive as to not offend people about their city, yet you come back with that condescending crap about how much you know and how much I don't know.
Diplomatic? Who needs diplomacy on a website. Funny really. Not sure what you found condescending other than facts and industry insight. Just because something is not as you see it does not mean it is condescending.

We're all very impressed that you're in Europe and that you have knowledge of the medical industry.
could care less if you are impressed, we are not trying to do that. Some of us are discussing things here, others, mainly you are having a hissy fit when facts are presented.

You and Texas Medical Center win.
And what do we win?

Now if we start talking about Education, which is my field, I predict I would win...okay I'm being sarcastic, but the maturity level of this discussion has taken an unexpected dive and I had just joined it...so adios.

Really, could you provide examples? Other than your post, as I re-read this thread I see facts and good thesii going back and forth. Then I see your post.
The fact you are not posting again is only a benefit it seems. Let me be the first to thank you.


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, yankee air pirates inc

[totheskies]

Just for the record, I never meant to get off-topic, or to discredit LA's research and medical resources. Your opinion is your opinion, and I know very little about medicine. If you don't like TMC, it's good that you are earning your doctorate elsewhere, and I wish you success.

Back to HAIF, I guess.

[oldpainless]

Is that in Canadian or US $........oh wait, the Canadian is worth more now. Nevermind.
And your point is?....
Oooo, the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar. High fives all around for Canadians :cheers:

[TexasPlaya]

Just going to share some info about the TMC. It's pretty impressive what is going on over there. I hope to work there once I graduate from college, so I've been following whats going on. Here are some current facts about the TMC:

46 Institutions (23 private non-profit and 23 public)
Approximately 5.5 million patient visits a year
73,600 Employees
10,000 M.D.s and Ph.Ds
26,000 Registered nurses, technicians, and caregivers
13,500 Volunteers (not sure if this is daily?)
Education and research institutes such as Rice, UT, Baylor, MD Anderson, Texas Southern University, University of Houston, DeBakeyand Texas A&M
33,150 Full-time students
75,000 Part-time students
37 million sq.ft. of existing, under construction, or programmed physical plant space
$2 Billion-Approximate cost of buildings under active construction

All this on 1,000 acres. Not to mention there are many pharmaceutical, dental and nursing schools. It was pretty surprising to see that there were that many part time students. The TMC does have significant research that takes place there, however, the TMC is mostly known for its treatment (cancer and cardiovascular) and patient care. Well I'll stop bragging now.

[Jersey Mentality]

Here are the top 20 in 2007 according to US news.

1 Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore 30 points in 15 specialties
2 Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. 29 points in 15 specialties
3 UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles 25 points in 15 specialties
4 Cleveland Clinic 25 points in 13 specialties
5 Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 23 points in 12 specialties
6 New York-Presbyterian Univ. Hosp. of Columbia and Cornell
21 points in 11 specialties
7 Duke University Medical Center, Durham, N.C.18 points in 10 specialties
7 University of California, San Francisco Medical Center 18 points in 10 specialties
9 Barnes-Jewish Hospital/Washington University, St. Louis 17 points in 11 specialties
10 Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston 16 points in 10 specialties
11 University of Washington Medical Center, Seattle 15 points in 9 specialties
12 Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia 11 points in 8 specialties
13 University of Pittsburgh Medical Center 10 points in 7 specialties
14 University of Michigan Hospitals and Health Centers, Ann Arbor 9 points in 7 specialties
15 Stanford Hospital and Clinics, Stanford, Calif. 8 points in 6 specialties
15 Yale-New Haven Hospital, New Haven, Conn.
8 points in 6 specialties
17 Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles 7 points in 6 specialties
17 University of Chicago Medical Center 7 points in 6 specialties

It seems every major population center in the U.S is represented on here except Florida... (well Phoenix and Atlanta too). But Florida, as a state doesnt have one.

[Metro Matt]

Of course Houston can't hold a candle to LA for cosmetic surgeries :tup:

Actually, LA can thank Houston for inventing the breast implant...

[Metro Matt]

Austin isn't really that diverse.

True, Austin isn't that diverse compared with Houston or D/FW. Most of Austin's diversity is due to having a very large student population of more than 48,000 at UT.

[atl2phx]

Actually, LA can thank Houston for inventing the breast implant...

:lmao:

[edluva]

^that's already been said, metro matt.

anyways, back to a discussion of substance. i'd like to see a listed ranking of individual programs at TMC. aside from the anecdotal, my impression is that not that much heed is given its institutions. i'm sure it's great. but i dispute that it's of such world-reknown as hopkins, mayo, ucla, or any of the top ten listed in agonist's list. that numbers texasplaya posted is a size-whore list with little indication of the quality of care and research actually taking place there.

[totheskies]

I think we're just scewed by our areas of the country. I never hear anything about UCLA's research. But that's no reason for me to assume that it's not valid, just like it's no reason for me to assume that TMC is a top quality medical destination.

[Crawford]

I think we're just scewed by our areas of the country. I never hear anything about UCLA's research. But that's no reason for me to assume that it's not valid, just like it's no reason for me to assume that TMC is a top quality medical destination.

Actually, your location is exactly the reason TMC is so popular. If Houston were located anywhere else, it wouldn't have such a well-known medical center.

Houston is a huge U.S. gateway to Latin America, thanks to Continental. Among the Big Four Latin American hubs (NYC, LA and Miami round out the four) It's also the closest major American city to most of Mexico, which has over 100 million residents, half of them with at least a middle class standard of living. It's closer to and has more direct flights from the three major Mexican wealth centers and also has frequent connections, direct flights and relative proximity to the rest of Latin America's wealth centers.

Until Latin America's private hospitals are equal to America's private hospitals, you will see Houston try and mine this market for all it's worth. I have seen billboards and print ads for the TMC in both Mexico City and Guadalajara. Remember that this is not a small market.

I'd wager there is significantly more wealth in Mexico City than in Houston (and probably more than in all but a handful of cities worldwide). TMC is therefore incredibly blessed with its location.

[edluva]

I think we're just scewed by our areas of the country. I never hear anything about UCLA's research. But that's no reason for me to assume that it's not valid, just like it's no reason for me to assume that TMC is a top quality medical destination.

If you had a clue about medicine and research, you'd know that UCLA is superior to the TMC in far more specialties than the TMC can claim the other way around. Don't confuse your personal ignorance of medicine with the reality. UCLA alone is far more respected in medicine/research than TMC in its size-whorish entirety. I guarantee you will find that is a consensus opinion among peers in virtually all globally respected institutions. TMC is well-known, but it's no UCLA, Mayo, or Hopkins.

[j korzeniowski]

mthd has a point. It doesn't look like a given that Chicago will retail #3 forever.

yeah, but that's washington with baltimore thrown in. unlike most other cities in the top 15, chicago doesn't have another city above 150,000 people thrown in there, much less the 640,000 that baltimore brings to "washington's" count. that's not washington's fault, and, as vivalfuego pointed out, washington is spending like crazy at the moment, but throwing in a city the size of baltimore changes things a bit. (yes i know they're really close, and san francisco and oakland have a similar jig, but whatev's ...)

[fleonzo]

yeah, but that's washington with baltimore thrown in. unlike most other cities in the top 15, chicago doesn't have another city above 150,000 people thrown in there, much less the 640,000 that baltimore brings to "washington's" count. that's not washington's fault, and, as vivalfuego pointed out, washington is spending like crazy at the moment, but throwing in a city the size of baltimore changes things a bit. (yes i know they're really close, and san francisco and oakland have a similar jig, but whatev's ...)

You're right...if this trend continues they might as well throw NYC and Philly together. The whole NE should figure out how to consolidate local government services to reduce the amount of per capital state employees they have as compared to the Sunbelt States. That plus large interstate (i.e. NY,PA, and NJ) "zones" for foreign investments for manufacturing that ease the cost of Unions so that they're better able to compete. Manufacturing hasn't left this country...it's U.S. companies that have left because of the Union labor costs...BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai and others are setting up "manufacturing" plants but in Sunbelt labor friendly states!

[bnk]

yeah, but that's washington with baltimore thrown in. unlike most other cities in the top 15, chicago doesn't have another city above 150,000 people thrown in there, much less the 640,000 that baltimore brings to "washington's" count. that's not washington's fault, and, as vivalfuego pointed out, washington is spending like crazy at the moment, but throwing in a city the size of baltimore changes things a bit. (yes i know they're really close, and san francisco and oakland have a similar jig, but whatev's ...)


Good post but we do have Milwaukee, Rockford, Madison to annex next of course.;)

[TexasPlaya]

i'd like to see a listed ranking of individual programs at TMC. aside from the anecdotal, my impression is that not that much heed is given its institutions. i'm sure it's great. but i dispute that it's of such world-reknown as hopkins, mayo, ucla, or any of the top ten listed in agonist's list. that numbers texasplaya posted is a size-whore list with little indication of the quality of care and research actually taking place there.

Size-whore list? I was just giving some facts about it. First off, I said that the TMC is more known for treatment and patient care than research. Next, your list that you provided earlier from US News doesn't take the whole TMC into account, but ranks the individual hospitals. While the UCLA Medical Center is counted as a whole. I was alerted to this by the fact that the TMC wasn't on the list but the UCLA Medical Center was :haha: . However, I did search for some individual hospitals in the TMC from US News and only found 3 listed:

Methodist Hospital #9 Neurology #10 Urology
Texas Children's Hospital #6 Pediatrics
Memorial Hermann Rehab #4 Rehabilitation

Unfortantely, I couldn't find the heavy hitters, such as Memorial Hermann Hospital, MD Anderson Hospital, MD Anderson Cancer Center, Baylor Hospital, and DeBakey Texas Heart Institute. The fact that you aren't familiar with the TMC doesn't mean squat. I can easily say the same thing about the UCLA MedicalCenter.

UCLA alone is far more respected in medicine/research than TMC in its size-whorish entirety.

You are completely biased. I haven't seen you provide any other evidence than that lopsided US News rankings that doesn't even rank the TMC as a whole. Don't be mad because your medical center is smaller... some girls say size doesn't matter. :haha:

[totheskies]

If you had a clue about medicine and research, you'd know that UCLA is superior to the TMC in far more specialties than the TMC can claim the other way around. Don't confuse your personal ignorance of medicine with the reality. UCLA alone is far more respected in medicine/research than TMC in its size-whorish entirety. I guarantee you will find that is a consensus opinion among peers in virtually all globally respected institutions. TMC is well-known, but it's no UCLA, Mayo, or Hopkins.

You're not helping any arguments with comments like this. I'll admit that I'm no doctor, but I can't claim the level of total ignorance that you assume me to have. Again, if you don't like Houston or the Texas Medical Center, it is very good that you don't live here. And I'm sorry but in reference to well-known, EVERYTHING in your state is well-known because of it's control of the entertainment industry. If you'd like to accuse Texas of "size-whoring", then you should wear the badge of "media whoring" loud and proud!

Lastly, I am hoping and praying for all of the wonderful of Southern California as you try to battle these fires and save your homes and families. In that capacity, I'm sure that the state's medical professional are doing all that they can.

[Capsule F]

I think for the topic at hand it would be much more appropirate to compare the full significance of the medical field measured by cities, not by institutions. Does anyone have any figures on this?