[Rusty Gull]

I'm having a hard time believing that the only so-called "express" link between downtown Vancouver and the University of British Columbia -- two of the most important economic focal points in Metro Vancouver -- is the #44 bus service.

I took this service today, both directions. The bus was jam-packed in both directions -- passing up transit users at various stops along the way. The can-of-sardines atmosphere made for a completely uncomfortable ride -- which is, by the way, about 45 minutes between the university and Waterfront Station.

Worse yet, it only runs every 15 minutes during rush hours, and once every 30 minutes otherwise. Some days, it doesn't run at all. The line-up at the UBC bus loop for this service is so long that some folks were shut out -- and told to wait for the next bus.

Is TransLink oblivious to this situation, or does it choose to turn a blind eye to the matter?

I have endured the transit crunch on the B-Lines, trolleys and suburban routes, but to me it is official: The #44 is the absolute worst service offered by TransLink, and is a disgrace to the City of Vancouver and the University of British Columbia.

[deasine]

I would say please don't create more topics when we have a GENERAL topic regarding transit in Vancouver. Having said that I completely agree with you, and that's why I almost never take #44... there aren't many options to UBC from downtown. That's why sometimes I would take 98 then trasfer on 84.

[fever]

I used to take it before the UPass. It wasn't bad - it usually took about 25 minutes from end to end in the morning.

After the UPass came in it had the most extreme overcrowding I've experienced. But that was only in peak periods. It was nearly empty mid-day. The route wasn't frequent enough to rely on and too infrequent to handle peak demand.

Before my time, there was a bus that went directly from Bewicke and Marine to UBC, like the direct West Van bus. The story goes that the route was the first one dropped if a driver called in sick or another bus broke down. It was eventually cancelled due to low ridership.

[raggedy13]

I take the 44 a few times a week to work (every weekday in the summer). I catch the first UBC to downtown run - 8am. The annoying thing is that if I miss it the next one doesn't come until 8:30. Needless to say I don't wait around for it. Generally during the school year it isn't too busy at 8am from the start at UBC but there are usually about 10 people that get on. Obviously by the time it gets downtown it is packed though and I have seen the driver have to reject people trying to get on a number of times.

In the summer it seemed a bit worse though, at least for awhile - there was a period for a couple weeks when some sort of children's camp was catching the bus to downtown every morning and by the time I got to the bus there were no seats left at all. It was pretty annoying because I usually like to read on the bus in the morning. The driver had to reject many people during that period. And trying to catch the bus back to UBC at the end of the day (usually from the stop on Burrard between Alberni and Robson) it was always already quite packed (and never seemed to arrive when the bus schedule said it would).

I'm always surprised there isn't better service between downtown and UBC. There really needs to be better service for weekend nights as well. The N17 is always overflowing with drunken students. It's ridiculous. I've never been on a more full bus ever than on N17s. I've been on more than once when it is so full that people are sitting on each others laps to make more room and everybody's touching somebody else front to back. I've also been a position where the N17s were too full to stop and I had to wait through a couple of them passing me by (and at far from frequent intervals) before I finally just started walking the hour+ walk back to campus.

What would be really nice is an M-line extension to UBC that runs until at least 4am at no longer than 20min intervals.

[Rusty Gull]

It's a shame because so many visitors to Vancouver do want to visit the university -- whether it's to see the Japanese Gardens or the Museum of Anthropology or Pacific Spirit Park. Unfortunately, their trip (and their opinion of Vancouver) is quickly marred by the dreary, crowded, inefficient bus service that the #44 is.

[CrooklynDodger]

I'm having a hard time believing that the only so-called "express" link between downtown Vancouver and the University of British Columbia -- two of the most important economic focal points in Metro Vancouver -- is the #44 bus service.

I took this service today, both directions. The bus was jam-packed in both directions -- passing up transit users at various stops along the way. The can-of-sardines atmosphere made for a completely uncomfortable ride -- which is, by the way, about 45 minutes between the university and Waterfront Station.

Worse yet, it only runs every 15 minutes during rush hours, and once every 30 minutes otherwise. Some days, it doesn't run at all. The line-up at the UBC bus loop for this service is so long that some folks were shut out -- and told to wait for the next bus.

Is TransLink oblivious to this situation, or does it choose to turn a blind eye to the matter?

I have endured the transit crunch on the B-Lines, trolleys and suburban routes, but to me it is official: The #44 is the absolute worst service offered by TransLink, and is a disgrace to the City of Vancouver and the University of British Columbia.

1. Take the 84, the 17 or the 99.
2. Deal with it, its a huge city with high transport demand
3. Mail customer relations, (I have seen countless examples of suggestions being taken from the web board back in the early 2000's).

Overcrowding to an extent is good, it means the service is being used and will eventually be expanded. If it was empty then I'd be worried because it wouldn't be there next service year.

[Rusty Gull]

1. Take the 84, the 17 or the 99.
2. Deal with it, its a huge city with high transport demand
3. Mail customer relations, (I have seen countless examples of suggestions being taken from the web board back in the early 2000's).

Overcrowding to an extent is good, it means the service is being used and will eventually be expanded. If it was empty then I'd be worried because it wouldn't be there next service year.

1. Taking the #17 would add at least 30 minutes to the trip. The #99 and #84 options add 20 minutes. Not acceptable.

2. Deal with it? I take it you work for TransLink or some other agency with a stake in the matter. Why should I deal with having to stand for 30 minutes like a crushed sardine? Especially when I see countless other buses at the same time that are running empty.

3. Mail customer relations? You must be kidding. Nobody with any influence at TransLink, to the best of my knowledge, has ever paid attention to a customer complaint.

Finally, you say that overcrowding is good. It sure is good for automobile manufacturers when it convinces bus riders that taking refuge in a single occupant vehicle really is the way to go -- especially when it's known that attitudes like yours exist.

[vanhattan]

1. Take the 84, the 17 or the 99.
2. Deal with it, its a huge city with high transport demand
3. Mail customer relations, (I have seen countless examples of suggestions being taken from the web board back in the early 2000's).

Overcrowding to an extent is good, it means the service is being used and will eventually be expanded. If it was empty then I'd be worried because it wouldn't be there next service year.

1. I used to alternate between the 4, 17, 44, and 99 for my round trip downtown to UBC commute every day. Just 3 years ago, my commute averaged about 20 to 30 minutes each way, quite acceptable I thought. Now, all the above mentioned lines are packed, standing room only, often times I am passed up by several busses before one will stop letting more standing room only persons on the bus.
2. I have "dealt with it" this year buy forsaking the city bus system for my big black beautiful mercedes. Contributing more to urban traffic congestion, emmissions, etc. But I now get to work in time and my back does not hurt anymore from standing for two hours a day with my computer bag on my shoulders.
3. I tried to communicate my concerns and suggestions to translink and to the city on many occasions. I did not receive any response, nor have I seen ANY improvements in the cities transit system. The fact remains that this city has serious transit issues and statements like "deal with it" are rather lame and border on insulting for the hard working commuting public. The city and translink know that they have serious problems on their hands, but no serious moves to correct these shortcomings are in the works.

I would say that maximum capacity is good and signs of a healty ridership. 30-40 people deep lines at am bus stops is not a healthy sign, but a big sign for system undercapacity on peak routes at peak times.

[Nutterbug]

People should have voiced this issue when Gordo et al made their announcement for the new fleet of buses to be run over the Port Mann Bridge to score points with the public.

"What about us?"

[CrooklynDodger]

Ok, you guys have a point. It's better the demand the best. That why Vancouver is so much better than other cities in terms of Transpo around these parts.

[marmorek]

The #44: Vancouver's Transit Shame

Bertuzzi has a bus now?

[SpongeG]

thats why you live where you work or go to school

thats the mantra of vancouver isn't it?

[Nutterbug]

Bertuzzi has a bus now?

The #44: Vancouver's Hockey Shame

[Rusty Gull]

The #44 is really a disgrace. It constantly leaves commuters stranded at the UBC bus loop. This has been going on for years, and for whatever reason, UBC nor TransLink have addressed the matter.

[Nutterbug]

What do they need more? Better transit service to UBC, or another branch campus of UBC on the eastern side of the Lower Mainland?

I'm beginning to question the wisdom of funneling all the students to the westernmost fringe of the metropolitan area.

[mr.x2]

What do they need more? Better transit service to UBC, or another branch campus of UBC on the eastern side of the Lower Mainland?

I'm beginning to question the wisdom of funneling all the students to the westernmost fringe of the metropolitan area.

I'd say both. We only have two university's in the Lower Mainland, and in time with our growing population and the growing demand for more space either new ones will have to be built or the existing institutions will have to set up satellite campuses elsewhere in the region.

SFU has already done that, with the arts school at Woodwards, campus at Harbour Centre, and the major campus at Central City.

UBC has accomplished that somewhat...a satellite school in the Okanagan, and Robson Square.

[SFUVancouver]

The SFU Surrey Campus is starting to get pretty full. I recall hearing or reading that last year SFU had about 2500 students based out there and now that the remainder of the galleria floors are complete it could theoretically accept the full 4500 students it was designed for. SFU is directing most of its enrollment growth in the applied sciences to the Surrey campus and I think the Physics dept might be moving there too but I'm not certain. The new Health Sciences faculty is getting up and running at the new Arts and Social Science buildings on the mountain but I think those buildings are final planned campus expansion for at least the better part of a decade. Four major new academic buildings have been added in the last year or so.

Anyway, the #44 is a great route that lacks capacity. I hope that some of the new articulated buses are going to be assigned to it because it sure sounds like they are needed. The #84 needs them too. So do most Vancouver routes.

I wonder how many routes will be discontinued when SkyTrain goes to UBC. The 99, 84, and 44 would be my guess, plus some of the Richmond-UBC route(s) whose numbers I am not familiar with.

[quobobo]

The SFU Surrey Campus is starting to get pretty full. I recall hearing or reading that last year SFU had about 2500 students based out there and now that the remainder of the galleria floors are complete it could theoretically accept the full 4500 students it was designed for. SFU is directing most of its enrollment growth in the applied sciences to the Surrey campus and I think the Physics dept might be moving there too but I'm not certain. The new Health Sciences faculty is getting up and running at the new Arts and Social Science buildings on the mountain but I think those buildings are final planned campus expansion for at least the better part of a decade. Four major new academic buildings have been added in the last year or so.

Anyway, the #44 is a great route that lacks capacity. I hope that some of the new articulated buses are going to be assigned to it because it sure sounds like they are needed. The #84 needs them too. So do most Vancouver routes.

I wonder how many routes will be discontinued when SkyTrain goes to UBC. The 99, 84, and 44 would be my guess, plus some of the Richmond-UBC route(s) whose numbers I am not familiar with.

Yeah, I can see the 44 being discontinued - the 4 will probably be enough for the people who decide not to take Skytrain.
Not so sure about the 84 though - without it VCC-Clark station would be even more useless. Also, replacing it with a local bus would be a little redundant since 4th ave is already served by the 7 and the 4, so I'm guessing the 84 will stay as an express.

[deasine]

I would like them to keep 84 and a good reason to keep it. With the completion of th olympic village (phase 2, 3 & 4), there would be a lot of people in the area that need bus service on West Fourth, etc. Unless they have the downtown streetcar running, they shouldn't take away the 84 bus.

[Rusty Gull]

What's bizarre is that TransLink has actually been pulling articulated buses OFF of the route -- stranding hundreds of commuters at UBC and throughout the 4th Avenue and Burrard Street corridors everyday.

I can't fathom how they could under-serve the only direct connection between the two largest commuter destinations in British Columbia: Downtown Vancouver and UBC.

It's insane!

[mr.x2]

what about the Richmond 480 to UBC?

[The_Henry_Man]

what about the Richmond 480 to UBC?

The low-floor buses that were used for that route until last school term were now replaced by those old high-floor artic (formerly used on the 99B and 44). Anybody knows why?

But the good thing is that buses from Richmond to UBC will have 3 separate routes: one from Steveston, one from Richmond-Brighouse Stn and the other from Bridgeport Stn. That'll greatly lessen the load of the current 480, esp when the buses directly depart from the yard in the early morning. Those buses are almost always full before they get to Richmond Centre.

[deasine]

I thought they won't run the 480 when the Canada Line starts: take the Canada Line to 41st Avenue transfer to 91 B-Line... I think that was the original plan, if I can find that document with the future bus routes.

[The_Henry_Man]

I thought they won't run the 480 when the Canada Line starts: take the Canada Line to 41st Avenue transfer to 91 B-Line... I think that was the original plan, if I can find that document with the future bus routes.

If you look at Canada Line open house documents, one of the files will contain future bus route configurations (one from Translink), and it will show the 480 route as well as 481 and 482 (Steveston and Bridgeport).

[Nutterbug]

I thought they won't run the 480 when the Canada Line starts: take the Canada Line to 41st Avenue transfer to 91 B-Line... I think that was the original plan, if I can find that document with the future bus routes.

I wouldn't do that till they get the Millenium extension built to UBC as well.

[baggab]

What's bizarre is that TransLink has actually been pulling articulated buses OFF of the route -- stranding hundreds of commuters at UBC and throughout the 4th Avenue and Burrard Street corridors everyday.

I can't fathom how they could under-serve the only direct connection between the two largest commuter destinations in British Columbia: Downtown Vancouver and UBC.

It's insane!

Buses are more utilized elsewhere is probably the problem and depending on the day the 44 is really only utilized one-way.

The thing is... there are actually a lot of options to get to UBC like some have stated before. I've been riding the buses for 10 years now and I guess it's a lot easier for me to plan alternative routes max amount of time it takes for me to ever get to UBC is about 45mins in rush hour from downtown.

Give the system some slack, it's going to be like this for a while. Every single person on the roads at least had some time added to it with all the congestion from Transit Construction to Residential.

I've been to SFU and UBC, most of the time I don't know what students are complaining about.

The ONLY transit users that really should complain is Surrey and Coquitlam, but only because Translink can't guarantee the sparse frequencies those buses run at.

[Rusty Gull]

Buses are more utilized elsewhere is probably the problem and depending on the day the 44 is really only utilized one-way.

Give the system some slack, it's going to be like this for a while. Every single person on the roads at least had some time added to it with all the congestion from Transit Construction to Residential.



Obviously you don't travel to the university during the rush-hour crunch -- when the #44 leaves hundreds of commuters stranded at bus stops across Vancouver, including the UBC Bus Loop.

It's especially infuriating when countless other buses at the UBC Bus loop sit empty...

This service is over-capacity, yet the bosses at TransLink are seemingly oblivious to this fact.

If TransLink can't service a UBC to downtown route, then maybe UBC should create its own transit service, much like how Microsoft and Google have.

[mr.x2]

^ why not go on the 99 B-Line, than transfer to the 98 if the 44 is so bad?

[Rusty Gull]

^ Because it can add anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes on the total commute-time -- especially if the traffic is thick on Broadway between Arbutus and Granville. Every time you add a connection you are adding another chance for a pass-up or a bus that is late. That's why people flock onto the 44 like it's the last wagon leaving Dodge.

[mr.x2]

errr...i just saw the 44 kill a squirrel today.

[deasine]

I would ride the 84 and transfer on to a bus to downtown from granville (not specifying which one since there are so many options to get to downtown from fifth avenue).

[Rusty Gull]

errr...i just saw the 44 kill a squirrel today.

Apparently the squirrel and I share some common ground when it comes to our sentiments toward the #44. :(

[mr.x2]

Apparently the squirrel and I share some common ground when it comes to our sentiments toward the #44. :(

its guts were everywhere.....i was so shocked, the bus driver just went full speed.

[Rusty Gull]

^I've seen more than my share of disgruntled #44 passengers who've nearly suffered a similar fate after standing in the way of a full bus that wouldn't let them board.

RIP anonymous squirrel.

[baggab]

Obviously you don't travel to the university during the rush-hour crunch -- when the #44 leaves hundreds of commuters stranded at bus stops across Vancouver, including the UBC Bus Loop.

It's especially infuriating when countless other buses at the UBC Bus loop sit empty...

This service is over-capacity, yet the bosses at TransLink are seemingly oblivious to this fact.

If TransLink can't service a UBC to downtown route, then maybe UBC should create its own transit service, much like how Microsoft and Google have.

Trust me everywhere pretty much sucks during the rush hour crunch. Every transportation system has that problem. For some reason like most people think change is instantaneous. It takes time, complain if you want but I accept the fact that things take time.

which other buses at the UBC Loop sit empty?


Well besides that. If I was in your position I'd go to Burrard Station wait for either the 44 or 2 which ever comes first and take the 2 to broadway and macdonald catch any of the 17, 99 or 9 traveling to UBC the additional time you might have to endure is probably 10 mins. Which isn't that bad.

Yea, maybe UBC should... let's see how well that goes along with the students fees.

I would ride the 84 and transfer on to a bus to downtown from granville (not specifying which one since there are so many options to get to downtown from fifth avenue).

Yea. I found it kind of funny sometimes, I meet these relaxed people in UBC who won't take a bus that doesn't offer a direct connection to downtown.

[Rusty Gull]

Yea. I found it kind of funny sometimes, I meet these relaxed people in UBC who won't take a bus that doesn't offer a direct connection to downtown.

I can't think of another Canadian city that doesn't offer a direct connection between its downtown and its major university. In Vancouver's case, though, we're talking about the second largest commuter destination in British Columbia (UBC).

[baggab]

I can't think of another Canadian city that doesn't offer a direct connection between its downtown and its major university. In Vancouver's case, though, we're talking about the second largest commuter destination in British Columbia (UBC).

You're arguing a weird point here... U of T is pretty much in downtown Toronto and Mcgill as well. I'm assuming you mean offering "better" service.

Things like these aren't apples to apples comparison.

I can say, well most other major Canadian cities don't have as many rivers to cross, thus less choke points.

Anyways, I've made my point. The service from point A-B that you stated can be substituted with other routes, which makes service as a whole not "great" but adequate.

With that said, with major roads shut down in downtown and in Vancouver area. Buses have had to be increased for certain regular routes just to maintain past frequency as congestion has risen as a whole for the city. Once the Skytrain comes online fall 2009, you'll probably receive better service as they can cut back the number of buses for the suburban routes and reassign them where needed a long with the money they received to purchase a addition 100 odd buses.

Also, I have been going to UBC during rush hour quite a few times actually. Only from the 99 from Commercial, yes pass up do happen. Thou never to the point where I've seen an additional 45min add times. If you're getting increases of time like that, it's something outside of Translink's control.

[Rusty Gull]

^ Yes, we should all settle for mediocre transit service.

Why don't we connect five times for every commute, thereby rendering public transit the most hellish experience conceivable, and thereby contributing to Vancouver's reputation as a backwater for transit -- where most people opt to commute by cars.

One of the reasons the 44 is much faster than a 99/98 connection to downtown is because it doesn't have to traverse the Broadway, Granville or Seymour corridors. It takes the much more direct 4th Avenue/Burrard route.

You sound like some sort of apologist for TransLink. If you are on their payroll, why don't you just come out and admit it.

[baggab]

I am on payroll, but I do ride the bus to every location I go to all over Vancouver. Thou, I'm only a casual (2-3 shifts). I alway ride the bus and never had a major complaint. Even that's besides the point, I have more than enough money to buy a decent car, thou I've chosen not to, because I used the Transit System and trust me it's not like I'm making short trips. I can be required to move distances from Vancouver to Maple Ridge. I'll be terminated by May :p

I don't know why you want to bring that up, you think a casual position will provide me enough bias to fall in love with a company?

The difference is I don't let myself become irrationally angry at any major companies until I understand that they are at fault, beyond reasonable circumstances. I have talked to certain people in scheduling departments during Christmas luncheons it's a lot more than simply placing more buses there.

I didn't say take the 98/99 connection. The alternative was to take the 2 Macdonald to Broadway then connect to 99, 17 , 9 loads are generally lighter after it pasts the Granville and Arbutus.

It runs almost exactly the same route as the 44 until macdonald, but you're hell-bent on connecting 99-98. If you can't do a little research then you seem to just like to complain. Which it seems to if you're going to make rash comparisons like that.

If you think it's a mediocre system while we have all these major hindrances, then I guess they've done a decent job.

[Rusty Gull]

I am on payroll, but I do ride the bus to every location I go to all over Vancouver...

I didn't say take the 98/99 connection. The alternative was to take the 2 Macdonald to Broadway then connect to 99, 17 , 9 loads are generally lighter after it pasts the Granville and Arbutus.


I appreciate your candid answer.

But again, I ask you.... is it reasonable to ask commuters who are travelling as far as Port Moody or North Vancouver via downtown connections to catch every milk run crawling down West 4th or Broadway.

What clearly is needed -- judging by overcapacity buses -- is an express bus service between Waterfront Station and UBC Bus Loop that runs every 8 to 10 minutes. That's in order to service all of those folks who are coming in to downtown via Seabus and West Coast Express and need to get to points west of Burrard Street Bridge (UBC included).

The current schedule (every 30 minutes except for rush-hour, when it's 15, and not running on weekends) is pathetic.

[baggab]

Reasonable, long-term. No, it isn't.

Under current circumstances 1-2 years, yes.

They have been monitoring that route if you are interested in knowing that. Thou, I'm pretty sure it's not on the top of their priority list.

[mr.x2]

lol, i just saw a professor at UBC loop running towards the 44. the driver saw him, as he was running straight in front of the bus, but he just sped away. he started yelling profanities and gave a middle finger....classic.

[deasine]

that's exactly what I do haha. I hate those bus drivers - see you - RUNS AWAY.

[Nutterbug]

It's Translink policy not to stop for anyone once the bus starts running at the bus loops.

[Rusty Gull]

lol, i just saw a professor at UBC loop running towards the 44. the driver saw him, as he was running straight in front of the bus, but he just sped away. he started yelling profanities and gave a middle finger....classic.

LOL! Sounds like he almost wound up like your aforementioned squirrel!

Thanks Baggab, by the way, for the info on the #44 monitoring. It's good to hear from someone connected to our transit authority on this board. :tup:

[zivan56]

lol, i just saw a professor at UBC loop running towards the 44. the driver saw him, as he was running straight in front of the bus, but he just sped away. he started yelling profanities and gave a middle finger....classic.

Professors think they are someone special, so they do stupid things like that. If a driver stopped and opened the door for someone running towards the bus once the bus leaves the bay, they could be disciplined and theoretically lose their job. Bus drivers must decide when to close the doors and leave, especially at universities or places where trickle passengers are always present. Not an easy job by any means...

[mr.x2]

Professors think they are someone special, so they do stupid things like that. If a driver stopped and opened the door for someone running towards the bus once the bus leaves the bay, they could be disciplined and theoretically lose their job. Bus drivers must decide when to close the doors and leave, especially at universities or places where trickle passengers are always present. Not an easy job by any means...

It was hillarious...he was wearing one of those stereotypical professor hats, with a brown leather briefcase...and as he was running towards the bus, he was tapping on his wrist (his watch). Maybe he was in a rush?

[zivan56]

^^ Sounds like a good idea for a caricature for a local paper :D

[Rusty Gull]

It was hillarious...he was wearing one of those stereotypical professor hats, with a brown leather briefcase...and as he was running towards the bus, he was tapping on his wrist (his watch). Maybe he was in a rush?

I think the watch-tapping means that the 44 left the loop early.

As funny as a picture you paint, I can sympathize with the good professor if in fact the bus left early (as it often does) -- since the next one wouldn't come around for 15 to 30 minutes.