[Sioux612]

It's been almost two years since we've heard anything. The teams that are candidates to relocate due to stadium issues with their current cities are the Oakland A's and Florida Marlins. These teams really are our last hope. We wont be seeing another expansion team for a long time.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/Hype_won/winter.jpg


The Portland metropolitan region (population 2.3 million) is the 22nd largest metro area in the country and is the largest in the nation without a Major League Baseball franchise. Portland is by far the largest metro area in the nation with only one major professional sports franchise; the region's ratio of population to professional sports franchises is behind only New York and Los Angeles.

[nwroots]

I would love to see another professional team in PDX! Man, It's hard to choose between football and baseball. Sipping a local IPA and relaxing in the summer sun at a ballpark or a high energy stadium with testosterone flowing sipping a local IPA watching drizzle soaked football. I'll take either one!:cheers: Did I hear that we were going to have Major league Soccor sometime soon? I also am inclined to believe that Las Vegas, with 1.8 million in it's metro, has the highest % urban population without a professional sports team in the country.

[Fiat Lux]

With interleague play and the uneven divisions, MLB should expand add two more teams sometime in the future. Their current priorities is fixing the ballpark situations in Florida. After that, its time for expansion. Portland, Charlotte, and San Antonio will all be players I would presume.

[lil yuca x3]

DANg this is great News, I hope Portland Gets both A MLB ANd MLS team, that would be awesome,
THAt kinda sucks becuase portland is one of the greatest cities in the united states and only has one major sports team,
I found a link where you guys can look at proposed sites and facts about the possible new stadium
http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/submission/pdx_ballpark_mlb_082604.pdf

[Drew-Ski]

I do not mean to be pessimistic, but the only way Portland will land another Pro Sports Franchise is if it gives out tremendous tax and financial subsities. We all know that won,t happen. There are many desperate cities out there who will roll out the red carpet for a team to relocate to there city.

[Fiat Lux]

^ Portland is a creative city, get creative! Ticket tax, use potential income tax revenue directly from MLB towards ballpark, lottery game, license plates, t-shirts, screw the tourists taxes (rental car tax, hotel/motel tax), create a ballpark district with extra parking and restaurant tax, etc. Heck, I am sure there are other clever financing schemes out there that can tap the people most interested in supporting the effort or some of the potential revenues gained from the presence of MLB.

[PacificNW]

PDX currently has $150 million financing earmarked for building a MLB stadium...that is a huge part of the equation.

[Sioux612]

One of the coastal Oregon tribes said they would pay for the $350 million ballpark if they were allowed to put a Casino within the city limits.

Now that some state officials are talking about the tribes (confederated?) to run and operate a Casino/Hotel in the Lloyd District, could this still be an option?

....This all of course hinges on if we can land the Marlins or the Oakland A's.

[Fiat Lux]

The A's are headed for the South Bay (Fremont), most likely.

[PacificNW]

Sioux612.....I have suggested this also...... getting the Governor on board would be a big step forward...

[pdxman]

I believe it was the grande ronde tribe that said they would finance a stadium if they were then allowed to put a casino in the city. I believe some other local tribe(s) came out against it tho because they said it would unfair to let one tribe take advantage of such a large market, or something like that. I personally am not opposed to the idea of having a casino as long as the ballpark comes with it. I believe they(grande ronde) also offered to finance the convention center hotel if a casino could be built

[MarkDaMan]

Why the hell shouldn't the State of Oregon or City of Portland build and own the casino? They can than issue revenue bonds to finance the stadium. The $350M to $500 million it would cost to build a stadium would be recaptured in 5 to 10 years, less with using money from the I-tax of players and stadium employees approved by the Oregon legislature. Why should one tribe get a 50 year windfall to build a stadium and not the People of Oregon or the city?

[sopdx]

Yeah, that'll never happen. You can only imagine the flak the city or state would get for proposing such an idea. We can't even fund schools adequately.

[EastPDX]

I don't understand why creating jobs and supporting arts and entertainment in this city isn't understood.

My personal hope (stated in the past at the OSC site) is for the Beavers to find a new home in Portland or in another city so PGE Park can go to a grass only surface.

I think the new owner of the Beavers and Timbers does have a game plan for the future along these lines. He is quoted as talking about a future MLS and/or MLB team in PDX.

EP

[pdxtex]

you need to sell alot of tickets to make a mlb franchise profitable. we can fill the rosegarden most games but do you guys think the metro area is interested in baseball enough to make it a successful venture?

[joeplayer1989]

you bet your ass its ready :whip:

[sopdx]

There are over 2 million in the metro region, not counting Salem - and the draw would be greater than that. I am totally opposed to trying to build a stadium in the core. I think it is huge waste of valuable space including all the parking. I think that the Portland Meadows area would be good or even a suburban location.

[Sioux612]

I would put this stadium in the Lloyd District. It would be great to have this next to the RG arena.

That brings up a question, why is the Memorial Coliseum needed? It's past it's prime...20 years ago.

[PacificNW]

I can't believe there are people who bitched about the demise of the Rosefriends but don't carry whether M.C. is demolished...or not. It has been noted, by experts (not me) that the M.C. is one of the finer examples of the "International" style of architecture in the U.S. I think it deserves to be saved and upgraded.

[Sioux612]

I can't believe there are people who bitched about the demise of the Rosefriends but don't carry whether M.C. is demolished...or not. It has been noted, by experts (not me) that the M.C. is one of the finer examples of the "International" style of architecture in the U.S. I think it deserves to be saved and upgraded.

The interior needs a lot of major renovation and upgrades.

[PacificNW]

⤴⤴ I am aware of that...but the Davis Cup people seemed to be satisfied with the venue when selecting PDX for their upcoming matches. What makes this worth upgrading, IMO, is that it is a public venue....and there have been past proposals for this facility that would bring it back to life....a continued life it deserves, IMO.

[sopdx]

I agree, and another big hulking stadium in that area would only cut off the Lloyd District more from downtown, plus I believe studies suggested that there would not be adequate space in the MC space thats why they focused on the blanchard site.

It would be awesome if it could be redeveloped into something totally sustainable yet maintaining its overall appearance. Possibly something akin to what Hanna is proposing down by the Ross Island Bridge.

[Sioux612]

Speaking of the MC, I remember seeing a story on KGW about the Winter Hawks' owner wanting to upgrade the arena inside and out. The rendering showed the MC with some exterior mods, such as new, more reflective glass.

[MarkDaMan]

Expansion, not relocation, is Portland's ticket to MLB
Portland Business Journal - by Maury Brown

As a former member of the Oregon Stadium Campaign, and a current sports business analyst, I was pleased to read Andy Giegerich's article, ["Supporters hope stadium plan leads to big-league ball," Oct. 26].

In a city that continues to see rapid growth, the idea of having another big-league professional sports franchise would add value to Portland's entertainment options and bring in revenue from outside the city and the region.

However, as one who researches Major League Baseball as an industry, I found comments by Steve Kanter of the Portland Baseball Group regarding the possible relocation of an MLB team to be misleading.

Kanter states that "there will be a team moving," but events at this time point to quite the contrary. While matters could change, officials with Major League Baseball have placed the development of a new stadium for the Florida Marlins at the site where the aging Orange Bowl now sits as one of, if not the, top priority for the league.

MLB Commissioner Bud Selig has said that he wishes to keep the Marlins in the south Florida market, and believes that only the lack of a new retractable-roof stadium is preventing the franchise from garnering the revenue needed to be successful. This hardly seems like a team ready to relocate.

The same can be said of the current situation with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. While the team's current stadium, Tropicana Field, is a substandard domed facility for baseball, ownership has invested in capital improvements to make the "Trop" more attractive.

On top of that, the team announced this week its intent to work toward a new $450 million, 35,000 seat waterfront stadium

In Portland, a state-of-the-art stadium would require an orchestrated effort by the city and the business community -- neither of which seems doable at this time given the political leanings of Mayor Potter, who is against any tangible discussion regarding stadium funding.

Instead of talking relocation, baseball boosters in Portland should mention the possibility of MLB expanding from the 30 teams it currently has. While this may still be remote in the near term, the odds are better than a team relocating given MLB's extremely rosy financial standing as of late -- gross revenue is projected to be in excess of $6 billion this year.

I'm grateful for civic-minded individuals such as Steve Kanter, Beavers and Timbers owner Merritt Paulson, and those who are involved in the Portland Baseball Group and the Oregon Sports Authority. Portland should be prepared for professional sports opportunities that may arrive, and these groups work to monitor the professional sports landscape.

An ongoing evaluation of possible site locations and a keen eye toward the costs of a major-league facility should be the primary focus to allow realistic and responsible decisions to be made by local, regional and state government as it pertains to funding.

While Major League Baseball is not looking to relocate any franchises in the future, the Portland market should be seen as an attractive location should MLB decide to expand beyond its 30 teams in the future. That should be the message sent to those who have an interest in seeing big-league baseball in Portland in the future.

Maury Brown is the president and founder of the Business of Sports Network, which reports on professional sports as an industry. He is also a sports business analyst and author for Baseball Prospectus. Brown is a former member of the Oregon Stadium Campaign.
http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2007/11/19/editorial3.html?t=printable

[joeplayer1989]

effing mariners aint cutting it man, I NEED A HOME TEAM!!!!!

[zilfondel]

didn't they have an article about MLB in the Portland Monthly mag? I didn't pick it up, tho.

[MarkDaMan]

that's right baby...this is the MLB thread even when we got a second major league team today!

Friday, March 20, 2009
Quick Hits
Play ball?
Portland Business Journal

Word that the Oakland Athletics could relocate their Major League Baseball franchise has rekindled the fire among Portland’s baseball enthusiasts.

Drew Mahalic, CEO of the Oregon Sports Authority, acknowledged that the group is “closely watching” the A’s’ situation, revealed last week when owner Lew Wolff announced he’ll move the team.

The Sports Authority, which seeks to bring big-time events to the state, and the Oregon Stadium Campaign were two groups that unsuccessfully sought to bring the Montreal Expos to Portland in 2004. The Oregon Stadium Campaign has not met since the Florida Marlins made overtures toward Portland in early 2006, said Wally Van Valkenburg, the group’s former chairman.

However, Portland Beavers and Timbers owner Merritt Paulson’s willingness to spend money on a Major League Soccer franchise could spur baseball advocates into action.

“If he can run a good strong minor league team and get the MLS franchise, our chances would be pretty good in the future” of landing big-league ball, said Van Valkenburg, who’s also a Stoel Rives LLP managing partner.

Supporters still hold a big trump card: The Oregon Legislature passed a 2003 bill calling for $150 million to be raised in stadium funds through taxes on player and executive salaries.

“That money is still sitting on the table” said Ryan Deckert, executive director of the Oregon Business Association and a former state senator whose parliamentary move helped save the bill. “That was the first effort of the (Oregon Stadium Campaign), to get that bill signed into law, and we did it.”

Portland officials made several steps to attract the Expos, even launching an exhaustive stadium site study. The Oregon Stadium Campaign estimated that building a new major league ballpark would produce more than 1,500 construction jobs and 2,000 permanent jobs.

The $150 million legislative contribution would have funded one-third of the campaign’s original stadium cost estimates. The rest would have come from several sources, including ticket surcharges, seat licenses and hotel taxes.

— Andy Giegerich
http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2009/03/23/tidbits1.html

[IHEARTPDX]

Tuesday, February 24, 2009
ESPN--Rob Neyer Blog
(http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3931617&name=Neyer_Rob)

With Fremont out, A's should turn to Portland

Well, it's official: the A's aren't moving to Fremont. Owner Lew Wolff's official statement:
"After much consideration, today we informed Mayor Wasserman and City Council members that the Oakland Athletics will cease efforts to relocate our franchise to the City of Fremont.
"I expressed my regrets and gratitude, especially to those people who shared our vision and spent endless hours in support of our proposal. However, it became increasingly clear that our ballpark project faced significant delays ahead and I could not, in good conscience, continue to lead our team down this path.
"My focus now is on baseball with Spring Training and the opening of the 2009 season. I am extremely excited about the team's prospects this year.
"My goal and desire for the organization is to determine a way to keep the team in Northern California. This goal has not changed."
This is huge news, right?
The Coliseum isn't the worst place to see a baseball game … but it's far, far from the best. I suppose this is good news for the taxpayers in Fremont and it's good news for all the A's fans who didn't want to schlep all the way to Fremont without even a BART stop at the end of their journey.
By my count, after the Twins move into their new palace next spring, only the Dodgers and the Red Sox will play in older homes than the A's. But Dodger Stadium and Fenway Park are both baseball-only cash cows, while the A's are sharing with the Raiders, and nobody shows up even when they're winning.
So what's next? As Neil deMause notes, there doesn't seem to be a Plan B, with the best course looking like this:
Wild speculation aside, what seems most likely is for Wolff to lay low for a year or two, while working behind the scenes to put out feelers for a new site, and wait for the economy to perk up a bit. Though given recent reports, he might not want to hold his breath on that last one.
I feel sorry for everyone involved, and I wish to extend a heartfelt invitation from the good citizens of sunny Portland, Oregon.

[Downtown_Gal]

"sunny Portland, Oregon"

Since when has Portland gotten a reputation for being sunny? :shrug:

[JordanL]

During the baseball season Portland is one of the least rainy cities in the country...

[IHEARTPDX]

"sunny Portland, Oregon"

Since when has Portland gotten a reputation for being sunny? :shrug:

I think he was being sarcastic. Wow.

[twofiftyfive]

During the baseball season Portland is one of the least rainy cities in the country...

On average, yes. But we have some years where it doesn't stop raining until July. The stadium would probably need a roof.

[MarkDaMan]

So let's see...we have $150M from the legislature passed players salary tax. $50M passed already for the minor-league park, which I assume could be easily put towards an MLB stadium. Hmmm, seems like we are halfway there?

casino anyone?

[2oh1]

Oh, not a casino. Otherwise, yes, let's get MLB in PDX! Put it in the Post Office site in the Pearl (ok, I'm dreaming), or in the Rose Quarter.

[PacificNW]

↑ I actually like the idea of a "major casino attached to the headquarters hotel" for the Rose Quarter/Lloyd District. I know the Governor does not support the concept of building off the reservation but, heck, this was once Indian territory. The casino would be a major draw to the area. Hell, the casino here in little old Florence is usually packed. I hope those who are opposed to the idea aren't doing so because of a some sense of morality....give me other reasons to change my mind because another persons sense of morality has no bearing on how I should lead my life and spend my money. The Grande Ronde tribe even stated, at one time, they would pay for the construction of the stadium. I would bet if a casino was also planned for the area hotel operator would partake in developing a major headquarters hotel.

[IHEARTPDX]

I would support a casino here. It would help Portland diversify its economy.

FYI: According to the book Portland Confidential, Bugsy Seagal back in the day actually considered Sauvie Island for the location of his gambling mecca. He came to Oregon during a particularly rainy February and chose sunny and dry Las Vegas instead.

[PacificNW]

Interesting:::: ↓↓↓


http://portlandarchitecture.com/

[RoseCtyRoks]

^^ I'm glad there's another possibility for the new ballpark, and the hope of saving the MC. The more I think about it, it just seems like it needs to stay, as it's a part of Portland. The city has been losing money year after year, as reported, with the coliseum. This will have to be reversed undoubtedly, if the MC is going to survive.

Could it be possible to have an upgraded PGE Park(name?), Rose Garden, new baseball park, AND keep the Memorial Coliseum? My head says no, but the Rip City in me says yes.

[65MAX]

MC doesn't have to be an arena. It can be a transportation hub, a public market, an aquarium, any number of reincarnations. So yes, the MC can live on with 3 other sports venues here.

[EastPDX]

:previous:

This has been a dream of some of us (www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com) for six (?) years now (I have lost count and will need to check the archives there.). This is not a new idea people. But it is nice to see the next level of people start joining in. Everything takes time to make our ideas grow. Some ideas die just like seeds in the garden. Some ideas grow into shade trees!

Blanchard as the site for a AAA Ballpark has been the dream of that shady tree for years. Some over at www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com say that we don't have the time to get this done at Blanchard (1. Find a new/temporary home for the PPS operation. 2. Move them there. 3. Design the AAA Ballpark (hopefully with expansion in mind). 4. Clear the site. 5. Build the AAA Ballpark.) Some think that the MC is the only viable location because of the timeline issue here.

But I think these steps (step 1) started about two months ago as a contingency plan as part of normal operations at PPS. Step 3 is happening now also. I think PPS/Blanchard was the primary site all along because of the advantages/logic. I now think developers are starting to see the opportunity and are jumping on the bandwagon/into the parade. Welcome aboard! Push Hard!

Two years to get them done is tough but doable.

I still have hope.

Ep (Big Boomer at OSC)

[MarkDaMan]

^And have the schools donate their land that is currently worth more than $60M, assessed, on Portland Maps?

I think the school district should get a lot more out of the deal than a smaller house.

But if that can be resolved, then hell yeah, let's get them moved and the MLB stadium built!

[twofiftyfive]

The day Major League Baseball comes to Portland is the day I buy each and every forumer a condo in the Casey. We only by the skin of our teeth got the city to back $70 million in bonds for PGE and the AAA park, and even that isn't finalized. The Florida Marlins just announced a $634 million stadium, of which the vast majority is coming from Miami and Dade County.

[jaxg8r1]

The day Major League Baseball comes to Portland is the day I buy each and every forumer a condo in the Casey. We only by the skin of our teeth got the city to back $70 million in bonds for PGE and the AAA park, and even that isn't finalized. The Florida Marlins just announced a $634 million stadium, of which the vast majority is coming from Miami and Dade County.

Miami/Miami-Dade County taxpayers got really screwed on that deal....

I'm usually one for being pragmatic and open to these sorts of deals, but the Miami deal seems ridiculous.

[Okstate]

^ Wow that's crazy about Miami. Those Marlins have been trying to relocate for nearly ten years. I remember years ago they said they were thinking very strongly about coming to OKC. It would make sense to have big league ball here in Oregon. We have excelled on the national spotlight in different aspects such as the Lake O Lakers making the nationals more than once & OSU with the world series. I think Oregon could really hop on board with baseball.

[65MAX]

The day Major League Baseball comes to Portland is the day I buy each and every forumer a condo in the Casey.

I'll take a penthouse unit. Thanks 255.

[JordanL]

The day Major League Baseball comes to Portland is the day I buy each and every forumer a condo in the Casey. We only by the skin of our teeth got the city to back $70 million in bonds for PGE and the AAA park, and even that isn't finalized. The Florida Marlins just announced a $634 million stadium, of which the vast majority is coming from Miami and Dade County.

See if you can get me one in SoWa.

[2oh1]

I'd like a unit facing north.

I believe it can happen. MLB in PDX can be a reality. I doubt we'll get the A's, but I do think that each time around gets us closer.

Is there anybody here who can explain the economics of MLB in terms of cost/benefit? Got any links that help explain it? And, along similar lines, anybody familiar with what Seattle really lost when they lost the Sonics? OK, I realize basketball is a different game entirely, but I'm curious all the same.

[Joeplayer19]

Future Pdx Mlb Season Ticket Holder -right Here-

[Sioux612]

Does anyone else hate the idea of the baseball stadium in Beaverton?

With the longterm plan of bringing in an MLB franchise they have to be somewhere near/in the core of the city.

I think a perfect location would be across the river from SoWa. I think it would be cool to place the field to get a nice view of the new development.

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2008/09/15/20080915_3rd_base_skyline_view_33.jpg

[urbanlife]

Does anyone else hate the idea of the baseball stadium in Beaverton?

With the longterm plan of bringing in an MLB franchise they have to be somewhere near/in the core of the city.

I think a perfect location would be across the river from SoWa. I think it would be cool to place the field to get a nice view of the new development.

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2008/09/15/20080915_3rd_base_skyline_view_33.jpg

A minor league stadium should be constructed as a down payment to a MLB stadium...the problem that we have right now is that the Beavers are forced to find a new home and there isnt money around to cover the cost of the move. The only good site for a MLB stadium is the PPS site, which is where the new Beavers stadium should be built, but the city cannot afford to build the stadium and pay for the land and help PPS move...thus we get this stupid fiasco we have been watching with the Memorial Coliseum and Lents, both of which are bad locations.

I think the idea of moving the Beavers out to Beaverton is a good idea for now...though I dont think Portland should help pay for it if it does. The move to the Round could help redevelop much of that land including the little office park to the north and give Beaverton a downtown that is actually active.

The downside for Beaverton that they must consider is MLB, either their stadium would be upgraded to take MLB when it came or a new stadium would be constructed at the PPS location, thus would put Beaverton in a bind because they would be forced to lose the AAA team because affiliated teams cannot compete in the same market. Leaving Beaverton with an unused ballpark...but it would be a risk the city has to look at either way.

[PacificNW]

:previous: :previous: Doesn't Tacoma field the "Rainiers" of AAA? Everett a AA team? They are part of the Seattle market......even Portland is considered part of the Seattle TV market for the Mariners and Seahawks...

[urbanlife]

:previous: :previous: Doesn't Tacoma field the "Rainiers" of AAA? Everett a AA team? They are part of the Seattle market......even Portland is considered part of the Seattle TV market for the Mariners and Seahawks...

I am looking for the actual rule, it is just something I remember back when my hometown was trying to get a mlb team. There is a distance away a MiLB team has to be from a MLB team to not pose direct competition...thus Seattle would never have a minor league team as well as a pro team.

Which might be true with Portland, that Beaverton could have a AAA team and us a pro team, but seeing that each stadium would be less that 20 minute drive from each other would put them in direct competition.

Anyway, if anyone can bet me to the information that would be great, but I will keep an eye out for it and see what I can find.

[PacificNW]

Cool, tks....

[Pavlov's Dog]

I am looking for the actual rule, it is just something I remember back when my hometown was trying to get a mlb team. There is a distance away a MiLB team has to be from a MLB team to not pose direct competition...thus Seattle would never have a minor league team as well as a pro team.

Which might be true with Portland, that Beaverton could have a AAA team and us a pro team, but seeing that each stadium would be less that 20 minute drive from each other would put them in direct competition.

Anyway, if anyone can bet me to the information that would be great, but I will keep an eye out for it and see what I can find.Lawrenceville Georgia has a AAA team so it must me allowed. There are numerous other examples as you go down the system.

There is another baseball league, the American Assosiation, where some of the teams like Fort Worth, Grande Prarie and St. Paul are very much in the shadow of other MLB teams.

[Okstate]

I don't think Portland's market is anywhere near big enough for a AAA & MLB team. We are pushing it to get a MLB team by itself. If we do get MLB it had better be (near) downtown. We aren't a role model in urban planning for nothing.

[urbanlife]

Lawrenceville Georgia has a AAA team so it must me allowed. There are numerous other examples as you go down the system.

There is another baseball league, the American Assosiation, where some of the teams like Fort Worth, Grande Prarie and St. Paul are very much in the shadow of other MLB teams.

Dallas Minor League Proposal (http://www.dallascityhall.com/committee_briefings/briefings1206/20061218_EDH_PlayBall.pdf)

I havent found any actual information that says anything about location restrictions, but I did come across an independent minor league proposal for Dallas, which addresses what I am talking about.

A few slides in, it talks about the Rangers restrictions on letting a MiLB team start within its area which requires permission from the Rangers, but independent leagues do not have this restriction, so that is the only way the Beavers could stay in Beaverton if Portland got a MLB team...what would happen is the Beavers would get relocated, then Beaverton would have to try and attract an independent team to their stadium...so in the end, it will be a huge risk for them to take on if Portland were to ever get a MLB team that built a stadium in Portland.


And also, it would be hard for a MiLB team to survive here if the metro has a MLB team.

[Dougall5505]

the mariners AAA team is in tacoma i think. pretty similar to having the beavers in beaverton.

btw i attended the mariners series this weekend and I really enjoy a couple days at the ballpark. i would support MLB to PDX

[MightyAlweg]

I find it very, very hard to believe that the Portland movers and shakers that I follow here and in The Oregonian would ever be organized enough to actually begin the long and hard work of attracting a MLB team to Portland, let alone actually succeed in winning a franchise expansion slot or steal a team from another city.

And then of course there would be the issue of actually building a 50,000 seat stadium that has wind turbines on the roof, four MAX stations covering all four sides of the facility, and only serves organic beer at the snack bars.

Oh, and you can't have any sponsor put a billboard up in the outfield that looks too "corporate", lest you degrade the Portland experience. :haha:

Portland could barely get a soccer team that won't get any major media exposure to take over a 60 year old baseball stadium, and even that isn't a done deal.

Just for SOCCER, of all things!

MLB and the mega-stadium it would need will require a major sea change in political thinking from Portland's city hall and the people who grease the wheels of politics there.

[urbanlife]

the mariners AAA team is in tacoma i think. pretty similar to having the beavers in beaverton.

btw i attended the mariners series this weekend and I really enjoy a couple days at the ballpark. i would support MLB to PDX

Yeah, but Tacoma isnt a few miles way from downtown Seattle. With that scenerio, it would make sense to keep the minor league team in Salem, but it would be hard pressed to keep the team in Beaverton if Portland got a MLB team.


I find it very, very hard to believe that the Portland movers and shakers that I follow here and in The Oregonian would ever be organized enough to actually begin the long and hard work of attracting a MLB team to Portland, let alone actually succeed in winning a franchise expansion slot or steal a team from another city.

Actually when DC got their team, Portland was in a serious run for that, so there is some form of clout for getting a pro team here, it is just the current financial state of the city and state that makes it hard right now...plus Potter was so much against the idea, that the city lost a good 4 years or work that could of been dedicated to pushing the chances of getting a team. If anything, we will probably get an AL team when they one day do an expansion because the AL is still short a couple teams and there are not many cities that could handle a MLB team anymore...and Portland is still a growing city.

[Sioux612]

According to former Portland Tribune writer, Dwight Jaynes, they are trying to bring in the owner of the Oakland A's to look at the post office site.

My favorite location of all the proposals.

[urbanlife]

According to former Portland Tribune writer, Dwight Jaynes, they are trying to bring in the owner of the Oakland A's to look at the post office site.

My favorite location of all the proposals.

I always question the A's willingness to move...they seem to like to threaten, but never seem to follow through...but who knows, I was surprised when the Sonics finally moved out of Seattle.

Oh and it is looking like we will be saying Beaverton Beavers in the coming years cause it looks like Beaverton is more willing to find a site for the new stadium than Portland is.

[CUclimber]

According to former Portland Tribune writer, Dwight Jaynes, they are trying to bring in the owner of the Oakland A's to look at the post office site.

My favorite location of all the proposals.

I just don't see how that location would work. Are you going to have 50,000 people trying to drive through the Pearl, up Naito, or over the Broadway bridge after a game? The gridlock would last for hours.

[Pavlov's Dog]

I just don't see how that location would work. Are you going to have 50,000 people trying to drive through the Pearl, up Naito, or over the Broadway bridge after a game? The gridlock would last for hours.I agree. The post office location went off the board 10 years ago. That site needs to be saved for something special with constant vibrancy and not a use that is both seasonal and only at certain times of day.

I wonder why Gateway hasn't more serious consideration. It would be a boon to that area and it's really well served by both transit and freeways.

The school district site is the best in my opinion. The school district offices can easily be moved to another location but their are few large centrally located sites that have only one owner (which also happens to be public) as well as freeway and transit access.

[Okstate]

I just don't see how that location would work. Are you going to have 50,000 people trying to drive through the Pearl, up Naito, or over the Broadway bridge after a game? The gridlock would last for hours.

50,000!?? The only team in MLB that pulls those crowds is the Yankees...and they're pushing it at around ~53,000 per game. Just for reference, the Mariners draw in 28,000 per game on average & we'd be lucky to match Seattle's attendance.

-When did Naito & Broadway become the only way out of the Pearl?
-How many people would stay after the game to grab a bite or just simply hang out?
-How many would take transit?
-How many live within walking distance (not to mention downtown hotel guests)?
-You would be looking at maybe 10,000 cars absolute max needing to vacate the area & that is a liberal guess IMHO.

I imagine after a game it would take 45 minutes for the bulk of traffic to exit.

[pdxhome]

When did Naito & Broadway become the only way out of the Pearl?
-How many people would stay after the game to grab a bite or just simply hang out?
-How many would take transit?
-How many live within walking distance (not to mention downtown hotel guests)?
-You would be looking at maybe 10,000 cars absolute max needing to vacate the area & that is a liberal guess IMHO.

Also, you can assume that people would use the parking garages at the Rose Quarter (easy freeway access) and then just walk or take street car across the Broadway Bridge. The 10,000ish cars will be spread out over such a large area downtown/pearl/rose quarter that multiple accesses from the site would be used.

You have egress problems when you place a signifigant volumes of cars with only one roadway outlet (i.e. 7,000 cars in one big parking lot with one access road and one freeway ramp) like at Clark County Ampitheatre during a big concert.

[RoseCtyRoks]

50,000!?? The only team in MLB that pulls those crowds is the Yankees...and they're pushing it at around ~53,000 per game. Just for reference, the Mariners draw in 28,000 per game on average & we'd be lucky to match Seattle's attendance.

-When did Naito & Broadway become the only way out of the Pearl?
-How many people would stay after the game to grab a bite or just simply hang out?
-How many would take transit?
-How many live within walking distance (not to mention downtown hotel guests)?
-You would be looking at maybe 10,000 cars absolute max needing to vacate the area & that is a liberal guess IMHO.

I imagine after a game it would take 45 minutes for the bulk of traffic to exit.


Here are the attendance figures for MLB ballparks of all the teams, if you'd like to compare the big league franchises. I would imagine that the first couple years of any expansion team (Portland??:yes: ), attendance could be way up there.....but then would drop off like most others to average crowds.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

[urbanlife]

I have always figured Portland would get a stadium that is alot like what was built in Pittsburgh...which that is a very intimate setting to see MLB played in, plus it holds about 38,000 people and averages over 19,000 people, which would be perfect for Portland.

[urbanlife]

So I have been thinking about the possibility of a stadium being built at the round and I havent had the chance to do any overlays or anything, but is it even possible to fit a minor league ballpark at the old Westgate site? I know there are large parking lots in that area that could easily fit a ballpark, but the Westgate property is such a wedge of land, that I dont think a park could fit there.

[pdxhome]

but is it even possible to fit a minor league ballpark at the old Westgate site?

I measured out the site and compared it to many other minor league and major leage ballpark site. The answer is, the vacant area that you see in google maps or google earth (former Westgate Theatre) is too small to accomodate a field and stands/concourses, etc. (approx 4 acres)

In order to fit a ballpark in the Westgate site, the City of Beaverton would have to aquire the adjacent property to the north (up to Westgate Drive). I believe this land is privately owned and occupied by a medium sized office building and restaurant. The total site after the aquisition would be about 9 acres. 9 acres can work IMO, but only would include the field and stands and a limited amount of open plazas, restraunts that you typically see included in some ballparks.

I'm no expert in land development, but I have done a fair bit of research on the development and design of baseball stadiums around the U.S.

[pdxhome]

I read my post again and should at least mentioned that all that information is based on my assesment of the site using the highly accurate Google Earth. It's not very scientific at all!:D

[urbanlife]

This is roughly what it would like if the built a park at the Round, I am using the footprint of the AA Minor League park in Staten Island, which is for 7,200 people. Clearly, the larger building to the north would have to be torn down or partially torn down...the smaller building to the west of it could actually stay with a slight modification to the field.

The lines for the Staten Island Park is 390 CF, 318 LF, and 230 RF.

It would be interesting if something like this is what actually sparked some real growth at the Round and gave Beaverton a more developed downtown.

A ballpark would fit perfectly in the square block south of the tracks, which would require the removal of Beaverdam Rd and the taking over of several land owners....though I am curious what other lots they are looking at...granted, at the Round is the only one I am interested in seeing....this ballpark should stay in a downtown if it isnt in Portland's downtown.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3803/beavertonpark.jpg

[pdxhome]

urbanlife,

I like what you did with you're map. One thing to consider is that the PCL (and professional baseball in general) will not allow a field layout with a west or south facing orientation. This is because they do not not want the batter in a position facing a setting sun. (they would rather have the outfielders deal with the sun)

There may be exceptions to this rule that I'm not aware of, but I remember a previous thread on this post stating this rule.

This is in part why the Westgate site is more challenging. Home plate would likely need to be placed in the west half of the lot with a first base line alignment west to east.

Could you rotate the orientation of the ballpark in your map to see what the impact would be?

[eric cantona]

as a native of this area i have to say that this proposal is no less of a problem than Lents was. my thoughts:


traffic: anyone who regularly drives in Beaverton can tell you that getting to this location from 217 or 26 on or around 5pm on a weekday is a nightmare. not so much fun at other times, either. and believe me, people ARE going to drive to the games.
big league baseball: fantasize about MLB? kiss that notion goodbye. can you imagine 30k or so humans trying to get in or out of this location? utter mayhem.
adaptability: conversely, this site looks extremely constrained for AAA anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
political will: you think after Beaverton and Paulson put big $$$ into a ballpark that they're going to sit back and watch MLB crush their revenue stream? you think taxpayers in Portland will vote for funding a new expensive stadium when one was built 5/10/20 years ago in the burbs?


wherever the new AAA stadium is built it will need, at a minimum, easy access to rail, freeway(s), parking and, probably most importantly, the ability to be modified for the big show. anything else is throwing money down the crapper.

urbanlife: if you feel like it, i would love to see this cut and paste stadium placed on the open area adjacent to I5 at PIR. the site i've talked about before straddles N Broadacre Rd. right near the PIR max stop. it's a grassy area that's used for overflow parking for the better attended races, to the best of my knowledge. great freeway and transit access. lots of space for parking that can be shared with PIR.

[urbanlife]

urbanlife,

I like what you did with you're map. One thing to consider is that the PCL (and professional baseball in general) will not allow a field layout with a west or south facing orientation. This is because they do not not want the batter in a position facing a setting sun. (they would rather have the outfielders deal with the sun)

There may be exceptions to this rule that I'm not aware of, but I remember a previous thread on this post stating this rule.

This is in part why the Westgate site is more challenging. Home plate would likely need to be placed in the west half of the lot with a first base line alignment west to east.

Could you rotate the orientation of the ballpark in your map to see what the impact would be?

Actually, the park is currently facing more north than it is west, so this positioning should be fine with the PCL rules. Also, the buildings to the north will be effected no matter what if the park goes at this site, so it is very easy to rotate the ballpark even more north if needed.

[urbanlife]

as a native of this area i have to say that this proposal is no less of a problem than Lents was. my thoughts:


traffic: anyone who regularly drives in Beaverton can tell you that getting to this location from 217 or 26 on or around 5pm on a weekday is a nightmare. not so much fun at other times, either. and believe me, people ARE going to drive to the games.
big league baseball: fantasize about MLB? kiss that notion goodbye. can you imagine 30k or so humans trying to get in or out of this location? utter mayhem.
adaptability: conversely, this site looks extremely constrained for AAA anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
political will: you think after Beaverton and Paulson put big $$$ into a ballpark that they're going to sit back and watch MLB crush their revenue stream? you think taxpayers in Portland will vote for funding a new expensive stadium when one was built 5/10/20 years ago in the burbs?


Traffic will be an issue, but then again, no matter what Beaverton does in its future, traffic will always be an issue...that shouldnt stop them from doing anything, but it is an issue they need to really start addressing...though, unlike Lents, this proposal isnt in the middle of a neighborhood and the number of parking isnt coming from street parking in front of people's homes. Plus at this site, a plaza can extend from the light rail stop to the stadium.

This is where I think Beaverton should think hard about taking this risk, if Portland goes for the Majors, I see them building the stadium at the PPS site with the help of state funding...this Beavers park does not have state funding, which is why the PPS site isnt an option right now for Portland. I think in the long run Beaverton will be screwed over when the Majors come to town...also, what makes you think Paulson wouldnt want to have his hands in a new MLB team in Portland if we ever got one....seriously, the only player who is gonna get the short end of this stick in the long run will be Beaverton.



wherever the new AAA stadium is built it will need, at a minimum, easy access to rail, freeway(s), parking and, probably most importantly, the ability to be modified for the big show. anything else is throwing money down the crapper.

urbanlife: if you feel like it, i would love to see this cut and paste stadium placed on the open area adjacent to I5 at PIR. the site i've talked about before straddles N Broadacre Rd. right near the PIR max stop. it's a grassy area that's used for overflow parking for the better attended races, to the best of my knowledge. great freeway and transit access. lots of space for parking that can be shared with PIR.

I do agree, this new ballpark should be built with the Majors in mind, which is what pissed me off about the whole ordeal with Leonard, this seemed to not be a factor for him. The MC was too small of a site for a MLB park, Lents was too stupid of a location for one, and from what I can tell, Leonard really wasnt all that serious about keeping the Beavers in Portland, he just needed to be a drama queen about "something."


Also, in regard to the PIR site...you can put this ballpark there and all its parking with room to spare....looking at the map at the same elevation as the Beaverton map was at, which is 200ft, it is easy to see that....though for Leonard, it is hard to see good ideas when your head is wedge that deep in your own ass. Which I do agree with you, if Portland was serious about keeping the Beavers and couldnt afford to pay the PPS to move, the PIR site should of been the second choice.

[pdxhome]

traffic: anyone who regularly drives in Beaverton can tell you that getting to this location from 217 or 26 on or around 5pm on a weekday is a nightmare. not so much fun at other times, either. and believe me, people ARE going to drive to the games.

Like urbanlife said, traffic will always be an issue in Beaverton and yes people will definatly drive to a baseball game, but there is one very large advantage that the Westgate site has to at lease minimize the headaches of sitting in traffic. The Round MAX stop is very close to the biggest employers in Beaverton/Washington County. It's 2-stops away from St. Vincents Hospital/Sunset Transit Center, 2-stops away from Nike and 5/6-stops from Intel. Also, many of the MAX stops in this area offer park-n-ride, w/in 1 or 2 stops of the Round. It would be very reasonable to assume that people could drive to a park'n'ride and take a 5 minute MAX ride. This is similiar to what people do for events at the Rose Quarter by parking at Lloyd Center and either walking or taking MAX.

There are more parking/traffic options with a stadium in central Beaverton than in many other areas of the Metro area including downtown PDX, the Rose Garden and Lents.

[twofiftyfive]

If Portland ever gets MLB (which I still maintain will never happen), the only reasonable location for a stadium is the Blanchard PPS site.

Suburban MLB stadium in Portland? That would go over well. Without doing much research, I would guess that every MLB stadium built in the last twenty-five years is either very near a downtown or in the same location as the stadium it replaced (Arlington, Texas may be an exception).

But the Post Office site is even worse for different reasons. Anyone who thinks a MLB stadium will be put in a residential neighborhood is fooling themselves. This isn't 1900.

[PacificNW]

:previous: If a stadium should not be placed in a residential area (such as the Pearl) why has the city of Seattle rezoned the surface parking lots north of Qwest Field/south of King Street Station (Amtrak) be developed into condos, etc.?

[Okstate]

-Without doing much research....

-Anyone who thinks a MLB stadium will be put in a residential neighborhood is fooling themselves. This isn't 1900.

Enough said.

[jaxg8r1]

:previous: If a stadium should not be placed in a residential area (such as the Pearl) why has the city of Seattle agreed to allow the surface parking lots north of Qwest Field/south of King Street station (Amtrak) be developed into condo's, etc.?

When I was in Denver last August, their baseball stadium had condo's all around it. In fact, that particular area (Lodo) was very much like our Pearl District.

And it seemed to work out just fine.

[urbanlife]

the biggest issue with a ballpark in the Pearl would have to do more with the current residents complaining about it more than anything. A park would do fine there, but it is so after the fact with all the development that has happened in the Pearl, that I think it is too late to build it there.

Now if it was built there back when the Brewery Blocks were being constructed, then it would of been a different story and the northern part of the Pearl would of probably developed differently to reflect the ballpark that was there.

But the reality is, the PPS site is the best site for a MLB park, which if Portland doesnt build a AAA park there, then the city is just wasting money and we might as well let another city throw away money for a minor league team.

[PacificNW]

I tend to agree with you, urbanlife...

[Okstate]

I wish the far north Pearl (north of Overton in this case) would have hosted the ballpark. Then that area of the Pearl could have developed even denser (which is already being planned) reminiscent to San Diego's ballpark surroundings. The park could have faced south south-east & got an amazing downtown view. Just FYI (in my dream world) the blocks north of Overton between the Fremont is a larger footprint than the Postal or PPS site.

[zilfondel]

The far north part of the Pearl District doesn't have MAX, either. That wouldnt be good. Have any of you been to a Beavers game afterwards? Every MAX train out of there is packed full like a sardine can.

[Okstate]

^ I would consider 6 blocks away to have Max access at Union Station.

[eric cantona]

the post office land is way, way too valuable to the City to be putting a ballpark there. that will suck too much of the tax base away. i simply cannot see the zoning happening there that would allow for a stadium. once it's freed up it will be marketed as a premier spot for a corporate campus, with a whole lot of mixed-use pieces.

while i have advocated for the PIR site, i still believe that the Blanchard site would provide the most advantageous spot based on existing infrastructure (parking, max, future streetcar, freeway, and proximity to downtown). all that needs is some political will and massive dollars. should be easy, right?

[Okstate]

The PO site should be our version of Salt Lake's new City Creek Development! I'm being told in the SLC city compilation thread that their development is worlds ahead of anything in Portland.