[J-MAN]

http://www.magicalurbanism.com/wp-images/postimg/walmart7.jpg

I just found this and thought it was preaty damn crazy...

especially when there debating a 24 hour one in winnipeg:eeekk:


I was just wondering if you where with or against wal-mart...
(I myself am not a walmart hater..)

[LordMandeep]

never knew the west was so unpopulated.

[J-MAN]

^^^

well california has 20 million + ppl alone

[Xelebes]

^^^

well california has 20 million + ppl alone

38 million, actually.

[harls]

I take it by the thread title you never shop there?

[Hootch]

I never shop there.

Wal-Mart is the Devil! :P

[401_King]

i shop at wal mart when i visit my friends in brampton, its the biggest store i've ever seen. why are ppl so much against certain stores....bored? you aren't forced to shop there.

[1ajs]

hits up walmart with the other big box stores stupid store to name one... but then usly go to 6 or 7 stores and still never get everything you need... damit

as for the 24 hour walmart heres were it is... for those none pegers gues witch one is the wallmart...... :P hint its across from a hospital
http://www.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=walmart&sll=49.955804,-97.1468&sspn=0.011707,0.029182&ie=UTF8&ll=49.953318,-97.146649&spn=0.011708,0.029182&t=h&z=15&om=0

[J-MAN]

I actually do shop at wal-mart even though its not good for local companies and stuff like that...


btw, this misses the wal-marts at st-vital center, Regent, ect...
http://www.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=walmart&sll=49.955804,-97.1468&sspn=0.011707,0.029182&ie=UTF8&ll=49.953318,-97.146649&spn=0.011708,0.029182&t=h&z=15&om=0

[MonkeyRonin]

why are ppl so much against certain stores....bored?

Because Wal Mart promotes sprawl, destroys communities, treats and pays foreign workers like shit, treats their employees like shit, treats the environment like shit, and just generally adds nothing of value to the world?

Oh, and its just in the realm of lame suburbanites. :)

[Doug]

never knew the west was so unpopulated.

WalMart grew south to north and east to west. California was one of the last markets that it entered.

[chris]

Wal-Mart is the best.

[MTLskyline]

I have set foot in a Wal-Mart exactly once, and didn't buy anything. The only thing interesting about the store is the people watching (you see plenty of eccentrics in there...)

[401_King]

Because Wal Mart promotes sprawl, destroys communities, treats and pays foreign workers like shit, treats their employees like shit, treats the environment like shit, and just generally adds nothing of value to the world?

Oh, and its just in the realm of lame suburbanites. :)

i could care less about all that, just like many other wal mart shoppers. i want my one-stop shopping that i can't get downtown when i'm in brampton, its a big convenience. you passionate wal mart haters have too much free time to think about this nonsense!! =P . The best thing you could do for your revenge against wal mart is to spend your money elsewhere. Why these threads??

[J-MAN]

i could care less about all that, just like many other wal mart shoppers. i want my one-stop shopping that i can't get downtown when i'm in brampton, its a big convenience. you passionate wal mart haters have too much free time to think about this nonsense!! =P . The best thing you could do for your revenge against wal mart is to spend your money elsewhere. Why these threads??


:jester: omg lmfao
..........

i am speechless

[chris]

Anyone ever read the book "Wal-Mart effect"? Pretty interesting. They prove that with each new Wal-Mart store that opens, they create 50 net jobs. Additionally, Wal-Mart is so big, that they actually lower inflation in the USA (With Wal-Mart inflation is 2.0%, without Wal-Mart 2.7%). I think these numbers are from 2005.

[Hardhatdan]

Don't shop there, won't shop there.

I value my sanity far more.

Like every other store in a capitalist economy they exist for a reason; because they serve a purpose: bringing low cost product to the consumer.

Their ethics as far as employees, suppliers, distributors and competitors and certainly the quality of product, however, is questionable at best.

[West_aust]

i shop there once in a while to get cleaning products among other things, it's a little cheaper on some products, and i can find everything.

And they now have those reusable bags like you find at the grocery store, so i bought one, good size and it's a little something for the environnement

[401_King]

:jester: omg lmfao
..........

i am speechless

lmfao, lol, rofl....are you mental? or just so passionate about hating walmart that you have no facts to back this up with?? its not like i looooooooooooove walmart with all my heart and go there every weekend like the suburb ppl do. i go to brampton twice a year to visit some family which means i go to walmart twice a year and maybe spend a grand total of 30 bucks on some discounted items! you dont get those deals in downtown toronto my friend, it sucks every penny out of you!

[Doug]

I rarely shopped at WalMart and when I did it was usually because it was open later than other stores and because it had great deals on kids clothes (my kids are extremely hard on clothing).

I still don't relate to the WalMart angst. As others have pointed out, WalMart raised the bar and forced all retailers and their suppliers to optimize their supply chains, with the efficiencies passed on the end consumers. I actually have no sympathy for local retailers run out of business by WalMart. Alot of those "Mom and Pop" stores got away with exorbitant pricing before WalMart.

I'm a big fan of big box retail in general. It offers greater convenience and lower pricing. I also disagree with the sentiment that big box promotes increased auto dependance as it reduces the number of trips a shopper makes due to better selection and minimizes the need for offsite warehousing. Plus most Power Centers are located along busy roads, allowing shoppers to make a stop while on their way to/from somewhere else, meaning no incremental driving. Sure big box doesn't offer the "experience" of streefront retail, but the whole notion of shopping as an "experience" is an invention of marketeers. Shopping is commodity: the less amount of time and money dedicated to it, the better.

[401_King]

again , if you hate walmart, the most effective thing you can do to them is not give them your money.

[1ajs]

again , if you hate walmart, the most effective thing you can do to them is not give them your money.

AMEN!

[kirjtc2]

Don't mind them either way. I shop there, but probably only because they're in the big mall in town. If it were a Zellers there instead, I'd just go there more often.

[Jarrod]

I only shop there if I can't find something else where because 9 times out of 10 they have it. And usually at a cheaper price...

But it's my last resort.

[raggedy13]

Personally I don't really like Walmart and what it represents. However the main reason I don't shop there is because I don't even know where the nearest one is and if I did I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to shop there. If I lived across the street from one I'd probably shop there often though for convenience sake but I'd feel somewhat guilty for doing it... the same way I feel every time I walk into a Mcdonalds.

[ScottFromCalgary]

I don't shop there because I don't want cheap crap. However I have considered shopping there to show support for their innovation in supply chain and information systems management. And because I hate hippies.

[Boris2k7]

I don't shop there, ever, and hate the place with a passion. Unfortunately for them, I value the local economy, well paying jobs, quality products and ethics more than I do the 50 cents I might save on detergent.

Doug: Your point about "incremental driving" only works if you already live in auto-dependent hellhole like suburban Calgary. Streetfront retail benefits from significant pedestrian movement of course, while Walmart targets people with cars. Now, what happens when all those people who were walking the retail strips before have an incentive to get in their cars and drive to Walmart?

Regardless, when it comes in, shreds up the competition, leaving poorer-paying jobs and a more homogenous economy in it's wake. An effect that is felt particularly hard in smaller towns. Walmart is the epitome of retail evil.

[Nathan]

I pretty much always shop at Superstore... but in the off-chance I can't find what I want there, I might make a stop at Walmart. It's not that I'm against Walmart or anything... I just prefer Superstore.

[Mille Sabords]

I don't because it's out of my way and the stuff is typically cheap. I have in the past and there's so many people that the lineups make it another drag on my time. They do have low prices on some of the staples (diapers, pharmacy stuff etc.) but the few cents they would save me are not worth my time standing in line.

[DC83]

Hamilton (incl Burlington) has 5 ... 5 of which I NEVER shop at!!

blue dots = existing Wal Marts
red dots = Coming Soon :(

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/DC_83/walmart3.jpg

note: 3 are in the complete outskirts of the city!

[salvius]

Nope; I bought a $50 phone card there once because I got a (completely thoughtless) $50 gift certificate from someone. Boris sums up my feelings about the place pretty well; in addition, they sell such cheap garbage.

[Policy Wonk]

Nothing said about Wal-Mart today wasn't said about Marshall Field's 150 years ago - except I don't believe Wal-Mart has had anybody executed.

Although it is unfortunate that cashiers can't afford to buy a BMW and condo anymore now that Wal-Mart has driven down their wages so much - oh wait, they never could.

Retail sucked before Wal-Mart and it will suck after Wal-Mart.

[ReginaGuy]

I buy my groceries at Superstore, because it's cheaper than Walmart, and at least it's Canadian

I feel guilty for shopping at a big box, but I'm a poor student, so I don't care

[MolsonExport]

Hate the place. Hate the parking lots. HATE the customers. Hate the commercials. Hate the smiley-face guy. Love the prices.

[KrisYYC]

I do most of my shopping at Superstore, the odd time I'll go to Wal-Mart for something Superstore doesn't carry. Do I feel guilty about it? Hell no! I'm looking for what I need at the lowest price possible. This is free market economics folks.

One thing that really pisses me off are the pretentious shit heads that try to make me feel guilty for shopping at big stores like Superstore. I'm on a fairly tight budget, I'm not going to pay triple the price for something because "it's organic so it's more earth friendly blah blah".

As far as Wal-Mart wages goes: Do you think cashiers at Mom and Pop stores make any more than a Wal-Mart cashier? They don't. And in fact they have more opportunity to advance their wage or position in a large company like Wal-Mart if they have a good head on their shoulders. Let's cut the crap, nobody is forcing anybody to work there.

Let the market rule, adapt or perish.

[harls]

And in fact they have more opportunity to advance their wage or position in a large company like Wal-Mart if they have a good head on their shoulders.

Good one.

[240glt]

I don't shop there because I hate screaming kids, lineups of pushy rude suburbanites, Cheap T-12 lighting and useless "customer service" personnel.

I'll gladly pay $.50 more for asswipe from the store down the street to avoid all those headaches

[flar]

Walmart is a net negative for society. The only postive about them is low prices, or if perchance you have some strange need to see the ugliest, most disgusting people in existence, they're usually at Walmart.

[J-MAN]

lmfao, lol, rofl....are you mental? or just so passionate about hating walmart that you have no facts to back this up with??

are u a fucker??

(I myself am not a walmart hater..)

Im actually about the same view on it as u...

i never said anything about being a passionate wal-mart hater:koko:

[srperrycgy]

Cashiers? What Cashiers? Self-Checkout works great for me! :D

[vid]

When my dad got his job at Wal-Mart, he became an alcoholic homewrecker. I'm just saying! :)

At least it's located four minutes from downtown. We're one city that can't blame Wal-mart on stretching the urban fabric too thin. The city planning department did that all by itself. :)

[MolsonExport]

Walmart is a net negative for society. The only postive about them is low prices, or if perchance you have some strange need to see the ugliest, most disgusting people in existence, they're usually at Walmart.

Seen at a recent Walmart outing:

http://www.fionablain.co.uk/images/ugly1.jpghttp://outhouserag.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/redneck_1.jpghttp://mail.tenino.k12.wa.us/~students/8thFirstSem04/MCD/pics/Redneck.jpghttp://www.ibiblio.org/dls/pics/2002-10-26/white_trash.jpg

[dubiousmike]

There's something to be said for any establishment that sells lingerie, shotguns and bulk candy all under the same roof.

I mean, if I want to dress up in women's underwear, eat a half dozen Butterfingers and discharge a large caliber weapon in my backyard, it's nice to know I don't have to go to three separate stores.

[MonkeyRonin]

i could care less about all that, just like many other wal mart shoppers.

Can't say I exactally expected Wal Mart shoppers to have any concern for suburban sprawl, the local economy, the evironment, or business ethics.


you passionate wal mart haters have too much free time to think about this nonsense!! =P .

So I take it you are unable to do something while thinking about something else? :shrug:

I doubt too many people just sit still for hours on end pondering how much they loathe Wal Mart. We do that while doing something else. :)


you dont get those deals in downtown toronto my friend, it sucks every penny out of you!

The money spent to buy a car, pay insurance, and pay for the fuel to get to Wal Mart more than makes up for the 50 cents you'll save by not going to a retailer downtown.



I still don't relate to the WalMart angst. As others have pointed out, WalMart raised the bar and forced all retailers and their suppliers to optimize their supply chains, with the efficiencies passed on the end consumers.

The also set the (very low) standard as to how workers are treated in developing countries.


again , if you hate walmart, the most effective thing you can do to them is not give them your money.

Exactally what many people do. But what, because we don't like something, we aren't allowed to say so?


Hate the place. Hate the parking lots. HATE the customers. Hate the commercials. Hate the smiley-face guy.

That too. Even if ethics and the fact that there are no Wal Marts near me weren't issues, I still would not shop there simply for those reasons. It is just so utterly trashy and uncool.

[vanman]

What disgusts me about Walmart the most is the way they treat the workers that run their stores, and moreso the people that make and produce the goods that we suburbanites blindly buy. I mean, explain how the world's richest company cannot afford to cover the health insurance of it's poorest workers in the US.

[SpongeG]

I live very close to one so i go often for most things

the walmart supercentre near seattle can't be beat on loads of items

Can't wait to see what the super centre in surrey will be like

[401_King]

C




The money spent to buy a car, pay insurance, and pay for the fuel to get to Wal Mart more than makes up for the 50 cents you'll save by not going to a retailer downtown.




i dont buy a car , pay insurance for the sole purpose of walmart. walmart is a bonus on my visits to brampton and sauga. the convenience you get at wal mart cant be quantified in money.

[401_King]

are u a fucker??

yes.

[SpongeG]

how is the cheap crap at walmart different to the crap elsewhere?

tide is tide no matter where you buy it, DVD's are the same - and walmart usually gets special deals that are wal mart exclusives

its not like they are selling unique stuff??

why don't people get mad at other places?

like amazon which has killed many bookstores

[Cambridgite]

again , if you hate walmart, the most effective thing you can do to them is not give them your money.

Amen to that.

Also, there's only so much that Walmart can cover, considering that they're selling mainly crap and have very poor selection and customer service. So if I'm looking to buy crap, and in bulk, I'll drive 5 minutes to Wal Mart, 5 minutes to Sam's Club, or 10 minutes to Costco. Another issue is that Wal-Mart locations are spread thin because they have to capture such a large customer base. Not everyone is as close to one as I am and there could be many intervening options in between. Don't worry about downtown retail too much, since the only downtown retail that's really being leached dry from this is the department stores. Even today's successful downtowns don't usually have department stores anymore. Their niche has become specialty products, restaurants, cafes, and bars. Or of course, certain stores that cater to the yuppie crowd. Of all the downtown areas I've been to, I've only seen big box stores in Toronto. I suspect the reason they're there is because population densities are so high that they can actually support a pedestrian-oriented Best Buy and Canadian Tire.

Put me down as an occasional shopper. Very occasional.

[Jay in Cowtown]

However I have considered shopping there to show support for their innovation in supply chain and information systems management. And because I hate hippies.

lol!

I buy some groceries there, I'd buy more if they'd hurry the fuck up and turn my local Wally World into a Supercenter!

[KrisYYC]

The also set the (very low) standard as to how workers are treated in developing countries.


Are you really naive enough to think that Wal-Mart is the only one guilty one out there? Give me a break, pretty much EVERY retailer uses cheap overseas labour. It's a fact of the global economy.

That too. Even if ethics and the fact that there are no Wal Marts near me weren't issues, I still would not shop there simply for those reasons. It is just so utterly trashy and uncool.

So you'd spend way more just because it's "cooler" even if you're buying the same product? Like SpongeG said "tide is tide etc". If you're willing to pay more for the same thing, well I'm sure you've heard the saying "there's a sucker born every minute."

Exactally what many people do. But what, because we don't like something, we aren't allowed to say so?

Of course you can, the problem is most of the Wal-Mart haters act all high and mighty as if they're saving the world from oppression, while branding Wal-Mart shoppers as heartless bastards and/or trailer trash. The reality is most Wal-Mart shoppers are people who want to get the most for their money. It's smart. Paying twice as much for the same product at a different retailer who's supplied by the same sweatshops as Wal-Mart anyway, is stupid.

[J-MAN]

are u a fucker??
yes.

alllllrrright :tongue4:

[boden]

Wal-Mart is a no-go-zone for me. In my opinion no single corporation has done more to hurt the free enterprise system than they have. They have put almost every Ma and Pop in North America out of business.

[Kevin_foster]

One of my favorite musicians/artists does a song that reminds me of this topic - it's called "All you can eat" by Ben Folds.

Here's a clip :)

In case, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALNeDKf31Y

"..Look at the people lining up for plastic, wouldn't you like to see them in the national geographic? Squatting bear assed in the dirt eating rice from a bowl - with a towel on their head, and a bone in their nose..."

:D

[Canadian_Bacon]

I don't shop at Wal-Mart because of reason's mentioned previously. I do some of my shopping at Zellers or somewhere else.

I don't know about other Wal-Mart stores but the one where I live has no cheaper stuff than Zellers etc. So their lower prices slogan doesn't mean crap here. I can find stuff the same price in Zellers or other stores than in Wal-Mart... Sometimes even cheaper than at Wal-Mart.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but one of the reasons movies are so cheap at Wal-Mart and other movies after awhile is because they shorten the length of the movie and cut parts of the movies out. New movies they don't. But some older movies I have seen when they came out and then just recently bought had some scenes missing. It may have just been a fluke or something but I have seen it a few times with different movies. I'm not saying Wal-Mart is the only one that does this, but I have noticed it.

Another reason I shop at Zellers some times is because they where here first! Long before Wal-Mart opened up shop in my town. So I'm use to shopping there.

Its just like what was said before... If you don't like it, then don't go there. Just like the sunday shopping debate we had a couple years ago. Alot of people where against it, but alot of those people who where against it, shop on sunday's. So some people just want something to talk about. One minute they hate it and complain about it, then after wards they shop there.

[feepa]

hiSmlmXp-aU
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://walmartwatch.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/30/baynton.html
The True Cost of Things- Why Walmart S.U.C.K.S.
(Senseless Uneducated Consumerism Killing Society)
Richard Baynton.
The day Wal-Mart came to town, the townsfolk were downright joyful about it. A huge, brand new, job-providing, property tax paying mega-store planting itself on the edge of the community. And did I mention huge? And amazingly low prices, too! Get the kids! Let’s go shopping!
And they did. Suddenly that $25 widget at the downtown hardware store could be had for a mere $14.95. Incredible! Film developing at the local camera shop was way too expensive now. Prices at the market down the street? Forget about it! http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/graphics/tickmart2.gifToo high compared to the brand new superstore. And the convenience! Food, car batteries, electronics, books, beer, clothes, jewelry, and more, and more, and more… The local unemployed lined up for the new jobs, thrilled at their fresh prospects for a steady paycheck and the self-respect society confers on those with a job. So what if it pays only minimum wage, with minimum benefits . . . it’s a job!
The vast parking lot overflowed, the “deals” crowded like cornucopia in consumers’ carts, and all was well in their world.
Well, sure, there was that “Going Out of Business Sale” sign that appeared in one of the downtown store windows. But only one . . . well, maybe there were two or three after awhile. But no worries. It happens, you know, very sad to see them go, but after all, their prices were always a bit high, so it’s no wonder they went under. The independent bookstore, a fixture for 30 years—the store that people had deeply woven into their life stories—gone. The owners–your neighbors, your friends– moved away, disheartened and disillusioned. The hardware store, that ancient edifice, the old paradigm of personal, knowledgeable customer service—gone. Same with the sporting goods store. One by one, the downtown core, the heart and soul of the business community, dying away. And gradually, as stories of fear and financial failure from friends and acquaintances spread through the town, people finally began to wonder. How did this happen? Why are there no jobs anymore with decent wages? Why are the lines at the unemployment office growing even longer? Why have I lost touch with so many people I used to see downtown every week and share the local news with? Why do I have to drive all the way to the edge of town on a busy stop & go street just to buy something I need?
Too late. This town, this community of decent, hard-working people, was addicted, and they didn’t even know it. Having sold their souls to Wal-Mart’s company store for a cheap consumer high, their fate was sealed. They never realized they were degrading themselves, their friends, their families, and their community—just by going shopping.
The mega-store, the so-called Big Box store (Wal-Mart being the biggest of them all) comes to town with a Big Plan. The plan usually works because “consumers” (known locally as “people”) are so predictable. They want to buy things cheaper. What could possibly be wrong with guaranteed lower prices? Let’s shop!
The Shadow of Low, Low Prices
Almost every dollar spent super-shopping immediately leaves town for corporate headquarters out-of-state, never to re-circulate again in the local economy. Life blood lost.
Wal-Mart is so powerful, it usually gets its way through sheer economic force. It can under-price local businesses because it coerces suppliers to cut their costs in order to get the contract with them. As a result, manufacturing jobs fly to places like China, where girls and young women in sweatshops slave under horrific conditions for next to nothing, so Americans can buy cheap clothing & widgets 10,000 miles away. What a deal! The local hardware store, bookstore, sporting goods store, bakery, electronics store, music shop, toy store, food market—all closed through lack of local support because Americans chase those guaranteed lower prices. The local factory—you know, the one that used to manufacture widgets, that used to employ 100 local people at family wages with benefits; the one that was part of the town’s identity? Closed. More life blood lost. Money is the blood of a local economy, and this community is bleeding to death.
And guess what? Your job at the local supermarket is about to be sucked dry, too. You see, Wal-Mart doesn’t pay its employees what you get paid, nor does it give the benefits you receive. So, to remain competitive, your employer has just lowered your pay and cut your benefits! Don’t like it? Not gonna stand for it! Fine, they say. Go try to find anything better in this dying town.
The cycle affects everyone in the community. Everyone is sucked into the downward spiral. And that sound you hear? Yes, indeed, it’s a sucking sound. Wal-Mart is a parasite on the town body. Like a giant tick, it attaches itself to the side of a community, digs in and begins to suck the money out. It entices local folks with goodies at prices unheard of. Like innocents entering an opium den, people succumb to the illusion of prosperity, not realizing the enormous price to be paid soon after. Everything sinks to the lowest denominator (or is that dominator)—wages, prices, products, and services. Until most people have to shop there, because either they can’t afford to do otherwise, or there’s no other widget stores left.
Maybe that $14.95 widget wasn’t so cheap, after all.
Every purchase is political.
Every purchase affects the environment.
Every purchase is your conscience.
Every purchase is a vote.
Every purchase is a prayer.
Every purchase matters.
Buy local. Buy little. Buy organic.
Live in the world you want to create.
Create the world you want to live in.

Richard Baynton is a co-founder of Alternatives Magazine. He lives in Eugene with his family and can be reached at info@alternativesmagazine.com.

[MonkeyRonin]

walmart is a bonus on my visits to brampton and sauga.

Going to Wal Mart is really that exciting?


Are you really naive enough to think that Wal-Mart is the only one guilty one out there? Give me a break, pretty much EVERY retailer uses cheap overseas labour. It's a fact of the global economy.

The thing is though, is that Wal Mart, as one of the world's largest companies and can afford to pay their workers semi-decent salaries and still make exorbitant profits. They just raise the wages, and other, lesser companies will follow suit, and as such, it basically sets the standards that other companies follow.


So you'd spend way more just because it's "cooler" even if you're buying the same product? Like SpongeG said "tide is tide etc". If you're willing to pay more for the same thing, well I'm sure you've heard the saying "there's a sucker born every minute."

I generally don't really care, but...there's just no way you'd catch me in a Wal Mart.

And aside from just the image thing, I'd be happy to spend a marginally higher price and support local businesses, while not wasting hours trying to get out to the suburbs to do some shopping at Wal Mart.

Besides, the price you save on your shit just ends up coming back out of your pocket though government subsidies given to Wal Mart.

[tkoe]

Wal-mart is a 'family' company so in some cases they only sell edited versions of CDs, movies and computer games. Its OK to sell rifles and ammo, but the public is just not mature enough to decide if they want to see a bit of t&a...

In any case, I don't think that avoiding Wal-mart is about trying to act high and mighty - it is more about understanding that every dollar spent is a vote of support. Not only does Wal-mart kill independent business (as well as smaller chains), but once they eliminate the competition they raise prices. New stores often lose money for many years until they are the only game in town.

In their race to reduce costs they also pay poverty wages to the people producing their merchandise (through their suppliers) and to the people working in their shops. Wal-mart is one of the biggest proponents of medic-aid in the US because so many of their workers qualify and allow Wal-mart to escape paying proper wages with benefits.

In terms of the free market, their practice of forcing suppliers to reduce costs have, in cases, caused companies to go bankrupt attempting to meet their demands. This pressure promotes unethical business practices and makes the Waltons the only true winners.

[BlackRedGold]

Wal-Mart is a no-go-zone for me. In my opinion no single corporation has done more to hurt the free enterprise system than they have.

I'd say McDonald's has done more to ruin society then any other corporation.

[flar]

Amen to that.

Don't worry about downtown retail too much, since the only downtown retail that's really being leached dry from this is the department stores. Even today's successful downtowns don't usually have department stores anymore. Their niche has become specialty products, restaurants, cafes, and bars. Or of course, certain stores that cater to the yuppie crowd.

Everything that Walmart has used to be available in any town or city's downtown area. The difference is that the downtown stores were owned by local businesspeople, who were often community leaders, and who spent the money they made in their community. Because of economies of scale, the old downtown hardware store, ladies shop, shoe store, electronics store, record store, etc can't compete with Walmart. Walmart's profits go straight out of the local community. Where there was once a middle class of small businesspeople, there is now an army of low wage, high turnover, shitty ass jobs. So it may be true that Walmart won't hurt downtowns, the damage has been done. The niche shops, cafes and bars are only seen in the lucky downtowns, many towns and cities have empty downtowns.


I don't know if anyone else noticed but one of the reasons movies are so cheap at Wal-Mart and other movies after awhile is because they shorten the length of the movie and cut parts of the movies out. New movies they don't. But some older movies I have seen when they came out and then just recently bought had some scenes missing. It may have just been a fluke or something but I have seen it a few times with different movies. I'm not saying Wal-Mart is the only one that does this, but I have noticed it.


The low prices on movies are a result of the loss leader sales technique. Walmart sells movies at a loss but they make up for the loss when you buy a bunch of other crap on the same shopping trip. It also helps to stamp out the competition. My wife used to manage a store in a mall with a Walmart anchor. Walmart used to send their employees down to write down prices so they could lower their own prices.

[Cambridgite]

Everything that Walmart has used to be available in any town or city's downtown area. The difference is that the downtown stores were owned by local businesspeople, who were often community leaders, and who spent the money they made in their community. Because of economies of scale, the old downtown hardware store, ladies shop, shoe store, electronics store, record store, etc can't compete with Walmart. Walmart's profits go straight out of the local community. Where there was once a middle class of small businesspeople, there is now an army of low wage, high turnover, shitty ass jobs. So it may be true that Walmart won't hurt downtowns, the damage has been done. The niche shops, cafes and bars are only seen in the lucky downtowns, many towns and cities have empty downtowns.

I think it makes a big difference on the size of the city. A new Wal-Mart built in Burlington or Waterdown probably wont have much impact on downtown Hamilton. Nor will a Wal-Mart in Richmond Hill have much impact on downtown Toronto. But if one were built on the edge of Caledonia or Paris, it would absolutely destroy their downtown, just as it's apparently doing in Milton (along with many other big-box category killers).

[flar]

^^Paris is a good example, because they still have a full service downtown, complete with an old fashion Canadian Tire. A rarity these days, another town around the same size with an actual downtown is Petrolia. Walmart would destroy places like these.

[vid]

"walmart is a bonus on my visits to brampton and sauga."

Gold.

[miketoronto]

I do not shop at Walmart. I believe in supporting my city, so I stay away from Walmart.

And to be honest, what is there in Walmart for me to buy anyway? If I need soap or garbage bags, you can get that at Zellers, or some other discount store. No need for Walmart.

I want to touch on one thing. Why do people think Walmart is like the God of cheap prices, and that we all suffered with high prices before Walmart?

We had discount department stores before. Infact, before Walmart, there was a ton of discount stores that offered mor selection and competetion.

Second, when we did not kill off our urban economies, our downtowns actually had warehouse districts and bargin areas, where you could get tons of stuff at Walmart or better prices.

My parents use to live in NYC, and my mom always talks about how they use to go into Manhattan and go to the wholesale areas, and get amazing deals on good quality merchandise. Everything from china, to kids clothing, etc you could find in these normal shopping districts.

Same goes for Toronto. My parents talk about how you use to go downtown to EATONS and SIMPSONS, and then over to SPADINA AVE for all the warehouse prices, on anything you needed.

We had discount merchandise before, and much more selection and better quality.

The problem is, we have killed off that unique clustered economy that downtown use to have, where you could find not only the expensive stuff, but also warehouse prices, middle class prices, and everything inbetween.

So in closing like I said, I don't shop at Walmart, because I walk the talk. I believe in cities, I cherish what our cities have, and I will support them. And that means shopping at stores that do something for my city and make it a nicer place.

It is also amazing how cheap people all. We are suppose to be richer now, and have more money. Yet people can't seem to live well and are always going pay check to paycheck and shopping at Walmart. Yet our parents probably made less money, and enjoyed shopping at those great old department stores, mom and pop shops, etc, and they somehow have come out more financially well off then all these families today pulling in over a hundred grand a year, but still needing to buy the cheapest thing possible at Walmart.


Sorry, but aslong as I can afford it, I will go out and buy one good thing, instead of ten cheap things at Walmart. I don't shop everyday. But when I do, its good quality, style, etc.


What is the point of being interested in cities and liking them if you are just going to go to the box store on the highway?

I may be old fashioned, but if I want one stop shopping, I go to the nice old downtown department stores. They still offer the best selection, and the prices are not bad like people think. Amazing the suff you can get there, with good quality, and prices.

[401_King]

i am glad there is no wal mart downtown toronto though. that would destroy downtown shopping. the queens quay loblaws is already a pathetic display of suburban shopping downtown. especially with their huge parking lot. there are people who live downtown in my building and DRIVE to loblaws. its 2 blocks away. do people not carry groceries to their apartments anymore?

wal mart belongs in the suburbs. when in rome, do as the romans do. when in the suburbs i go to walmart LOL.

i saw a documentary about some small town kids and what they do. they hang out at wal mart for fun. true story

[vid]

"I believe in supporting my city ... you can get that at Zellers"

How is shopping at Zellers any better?

WalMart would probably be successful in urban areas, they just have to be willing to spend more than 20 bucks on interior decoration. Seriously, that place is sub-par even on Thunder Bay standards, and we put plastic panels on our city hall!

[cornholio]

Walmart is one of the greatest companies to come around in a long time in our capitalistic system. It lifts people out of poverty in other countries, spreads the wealth, increases the efficiency of the supply chain and as a result pushes other retailers to do the same...I can keep going on and on.

Your so called mom and pop stores hurt our economy, waist our time and money and more importantly are bad for our environment due to their inefficient supply chain, business practices and the waste of our time. These businesses have to either adapt or close.

There is only one negative but that is a negative of our our capitalistic system and applies to all retailers and businesses. This is because in order to max their efficiency they lower the wages which in turn saves everyone money including the rich though the rich dont loose out on wages but rather gain even more money via shares and the poor well all their savings due to cheaper goods are offset by their lower wages. The result the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

There are two solutions and none of them involve walmart, solution one is to increase minimum wage requirements and benefits which lift up the poor while keeping the playing field level for all retailers, solution number two is not as good and that is to allow the process to keep happening until the poor are so poor and so many that they revolt and redistribute the wealth and continue until the process is repeated again and again every hundred years or more.

time for me to go sleep.

[flar]

I too use the efficiency of the supply chain as the standard by which to judge the success of our society!!! Let's keep spreading the wealth to the Waltons.

[Presswood]

I shop at Walmart because no where else i could buy a 1000w home theater at such a low price :tup:

[Rico Rommheim]

sub-par even on Thunder Bay standards, and we put plastic panels on our city hall!


ha ha youre kidding, do you have a photo a this "city hall"

[cornholio]

I too use the efficiency of the supply chain as the standard by which to judge the success of our society!!! Let's keep spreading the wealth to the Waltons.

Sure the Waltons get rich just like the Jimmy Patisons, and the Hiltons and the Gates, etc. etc.
Point being though that with Walmart often getting their goods from undeveloped poverty stricken countries they spread the wealth by allowing those countries to industrialize, provide employment for the people and taxes for the state. Sure the jobs suck and spoiled westerners sometimes try to call it sweat shops which is exactly what we had here not even a hundred years ago, eventually those jobs will improve as the country and the people develop. New industries will emerge while the industries that propped them up out of poverty will begin to move to new markets such as maybe Africa.
This is globalization and this is how it works. The main problem with it is regular people from industrialized nations such as some of you who try to protect local industry while not allowing natural change to happen and the industries to evolve with new ones coming in and old ones moving out. This only helps keep people of third world countries in poverty while in the long run it will only lead to economic failure in your own countries.

[Boreal]

I'm definitely not a Wal-Mart shopper, and nor do they as a corporation have my vote of support for a few reasons already stated here, in regards to their effects on the local economy. Moreover, I try to shop Canadian, or at a store I hold in high regard at every possible turn. Thus, for my normal low to mid-range consumer goods, I stick to Giant Tiger, Canadian Tire, McNally Robinson, Music World, Superstore and London Drugs (largely because there is no Superstore near my home, yet a London Drugs within a 2 minute walk).

I will support the local Ma and Pa operation when it is reasonable, and midly convenient.

[Boris2k7]

Sure the Waltons get rich just like the Jimmy Patisons, and the Hiltons and the Gates, etc. etc.
Point being though that with Walmart often getting their goods from undeveloped poverty stricken countries they spread the wealth by allowing those countries to industrialize, provide employment for the people and taxes for the state. Sure the jobs suck and spoiled westerners sometimes try to call it sweat shops which is exactly what we had here not even a hundred years ago, eventually those jobs will improve as the country and the people develop. New industries will emerge while the industries that propped them up out of poverty will begin to move to new markets such as maybe Africa.
This is globalization and this is how it works. The main problem with it is regular people from industrialized nations such as some of you who try to protect local industry while not allowing natural change to happen and the industries to evolve with new ones coming in and old ones moving out. This only helps keep people of third world countries in poverty while in the long run it will only lead to economic failure in your own countries.

The hell is wrong with you free market, hard righters? You support exploitation of cheap foreign labour under the false assumption that it is lifting those people out of poverty. You support the destruction of the local economy and thus jobs at home to support such global exploitation, as well as money fleeing from the city. You deny that they are sweat shops, even though there is a long and well-known history of human rights abuses in such places. And we are supposed to praise and hail this process because of an efficient supply chain and ultra-cheap goods? And WE are the spoiled ones?

[flar]

Sure the Waltons get rich just like the Jimmy Patisons, and the Hiltons and the Gates, etc. etc.
Point being though that with Walmart often getting their goods from undeveloped poverty stricken countries they spread the wealth by allowing those countries to industrialize, provide employment for the people and taxes for the state. Sure the jobs suck and spoiled westerners sometimes try to call it sweat shops which is exactly what we had here not even a hundred years ago, eventually those jobs will improve as the country and the people develop. New industries will emerge while the industries that propped them up out of poverty will begin to move to new markets such as maybe Africa.
This is globalization and this is how it works. The main problem with it is regular people from industrialized nations such as some of you who try to protect local industry while not allowing natural change to happen and the industries to evolve with new ones coming in and old ones moving out. This only helps keep people of third world countries in poverty while in the long run it will only lead to economic failure in your own countries.

I know this ideology. My practical concern is with what is best for the community I live in, therefore I choose not to let the well being of my community fall to the whims of global capitalists. They do not represent my interests, or likely yours, so why fall for their rhetoric?

[Mille Sabords]

I do not shop at Walmart. I believe in supporting my city, so I stay away from Walmart.

What is the point of being interested in cities and liking them if you are just going to go to the box store on the highway?

I may be old fashioned, but if I want one stop shopping, I go to the nice old downtown department stores. They still offer the best selection, and the prices are not bad like people think. Amazing the suff you can get there, with good quality, and prices.

Probably the best reasons put forth so far in this thread to withhold my consumer dollar from Wal-Mart, aside from the purely convenient-oriented aspect that it's just not close to me or the places I go (and I don't want it to ever be). Miketoronto, I agree with you 100%.

[tradlak]

The Riverdale/Leslieville community in Toronto has risen up to fight a new Wal-Mart on Eastern Avenue which would kill the booming and exciting retail strip along Queen Street if this American cancer is allowed to metastasize again.

Check out their website:

nobigbox.ca

[SFUVancouver]

I don't shop at Wal-Mart or any other large format suburban retailers. I have a few reasons for this but number five is the big one.

1. I loathe the whole experience.

I just plain don't like the hassle of driving to "the strip" on the southern or eastern edges of the City of Vancouver. I don't like fighting traffic to get there, only to inch through the parking lot to find or wait for a space. I don't like walking through a parking lot to get to the store, especially when it is raining and drivers aren't paying attention to what's going on around them. I don't like how crowded a place like SuperStore is and the aisles begin to feel like the parking lot did. I don't like waiting a quarter of an hour in line at the check out and I don't like then having to fight traffic out of the parking lot, narrowly avoiding being side-swiped by half-crazed drivers gunning it to take your spot. Aside from that it's a lovely way to spend an afternoon.

2. My local neighbourhood supermarket is only a block away.

The beautiful part of a traditional streetcar suburb is that one is never more than three or four blocks away from a commercial high street. The bonus for me is that the SuperValue is open 24 hours so I can go for groceries whenever it fits my schedule. I tend to do a couple smaller shops a week and I bring my own reusable cloth bags, which hold more than plastic and don't cut into your hands when they're full. As I shop I fill up the bags and only pick up as much as I am prepared to carry. It's a pretty damn effective way not to make impulse purchases.

3. In my opinion a neighbourhood both looks and works better with local stores so I shop at them to keep them around.

I think car-oriented large format stores are ugly, they usually have huge setbacks from the street and acres of parking in front, and arrogantly ignore the pedestrians' experience of the street. This is mainly an aesthetic concern but it is still very valid. Large format does not need to look like it does now. A department store is large format and for more than a century we've been playing around with what that looks like. A classic pre-war department store was multi-storied and the size of a city block. Later we moved to malls and then, unfortunately, to big box stores and power centres. At each step the aesthetic quality of the experience declined. This clearly doesn't matter to some people but I, for one, don't really like seeing exposed steel joists and blown-on fire-proof insulation on the ceilings, nor do I like klieg lights and industrial-sized ducts dangling above my head. Even the cavernous feel of the average big box store is unpleasant since the scale is all wrong. The width of the aisles and the layout of the store is dismissive of how a human will experience the space, as opposed to a fork lift.

4. Large format retail stores, especially foreign-owned chains, do not circulate capital within a community the same way smaller, locally-owned businesses do.

I am okay paying slightly more for my groceries and goods and knowing that proportionately more of that purchase is staying in the city. This may only be reason number four on my list, but it's a big one for me. Import replacement is the surest way for a local economy to grow and that includes replacing foreign retailers with local ones. Large format retailers may leave slightly more money in one's pocket but it is a net detriment to the community at large in terms of economic capital, putting aside entirely its deleterious effect on community capital.

5. I like walking in my neighbourhood.

I enjoy the few minute walk to the grocery store, hardware store, pharmacy, or SkyTrain station. It is the best way to experience the place I've chosen to live. Over time I like noticing the small changes along the way, be it the jazz bar that is expanding because they're full every night, or the new 24 hour coffee shop opening on the corner, a restaurant that failed is immediately being reno'd into something new. I'm familiar with my neighbourhood and I can't tell you how many times I've run into people I know as I'm heading to and from the grocery store. I'm a familiar customer at my local grocery store and coffee shop. They know me and a quick chat as my groceries are rung through is a nice part of the day. I could drive but I choose not to.

For now this works very, very well for me and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it. Things will be different later when I've got a whole family to shop for but I genuinely don't think I will ever enjoy the big carload shop at a large format retailer when such trips are necessary. The difference is that I've had years of first hand experience with a better way of doing things, unlike many people who have only ever known shopping by car in the suburbs.

The more I think about it reason #5 actually represents the biggest reason I don't like shopping at large format retail. It's a poor imitation of what shopping in one's neighbourhood can be like. Of course it requires a different built form than the suburbs and there is very little we can do to fix them. The last forty years have locked in a very large portion of our population to a mediocre simulacrum of urban living. I wish our cities had been planned better so that the economic necessity of moving to the suburbs didn't require one to forfeit the convenience and enjoyment of urban living. The street layout and scale of 19th century streetcar suburbs are simply better than the latter half of the 20th century's automobile suburbs. I've lived both and I say with certainly that I'm right.

[Cambridgite]

I don't shop at Wal-Mart or any other large format suburban retailers. I have a couple of reasons for this but number five is the big one.

1. I loathe the whole experience.

I just plain don't like the hassle of driving to "the strip" on the southern or eastern edges of the City of Vancouver. I don't like fighting traffic to get there, only to inch through the parking lot to find or wait for a space. I don't like walking through a parking lot to get to the store, especially when it is raining and drivers aren't paying attention to what's going on around them. I don't like how crowded a place like SuperStore is and the aisles begin to feel like the parking lot did. I don't like waiting a quarter of an hour in line at the check out and I don't like then having to fight traffic out of the parking lot, narrowly avoiding being side-swiped by half-crazed drivers gunning it to take your spot. Aside from that it's a lovely way to spend an afternoon.

2. My local neighbourhood supermarket is only a block away. The beautiful part of a traditional streetcar suburb is that one is never more than three or four blocks away from a commercial high street. The bonus for me is that the SuperValue is open 24 hours so I can go for groceries whenever it fits my schedule. I tend to do a couple smaller shops a week and I bring my own reusable bags. As I shop I fill up the bags and only pick up as much as I am prepared to carry. It's a pretty damn effective way not to make impulse purchases.

3. In my opinion a neighbourhood works better with local stores so I shop at them to keep them around. I think car-oriented large format stores are ugly, they usually have huge setbacks from the street and acres of parking in front, and arrogantly ignore the pedestrians' experience of the street.

4. Large format retail stores, especially foreign-owned chains, do not circulate capital within a community the same way smaller, locally-owned businesses do. I am okay paying slightly more for my groceries and goods and knowing that proportionately more of that purchase is staying in the city. This may only be reason number four on my list, but it's a big one for me. Import replacement is the surest way for a local economy to grow and that includes replacing foreign retailers with local ones. Large format retailers may leave slightly more money in one's pocket but it is a net detriment to the community at large in terms of economic capital, putting aside entirely its deleterious effect on community capital.

5. I like walking in my neighbourhood. I enjoy the few minute walk to the grocery store, hardware store, pharmacy, or SkyTrain station. It is the best way to experience the place I've chosen to live. Over time I like noticing the small changes along the way, be it the jazz bar that is expanding because they're full every night, or the new 24 hour coffee shop opening on the corner, a restaurant that failed is immediately being reno'd into something new. I'm familiar with my neighbourhood and I can't tell you how many times I've run into people I know as I'm heading to and from the grocery store. I'm a familiar customer at my local grocery store and coffee shop. They know me and a quick chat as my groceries are rung through is a nice part of the day. I could drive but I choose not to.

For now this works very, very well for me and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it. Things will be different later when I've got a whole family to shop for but I genuinely don't think I will ever enjoy the big carload shop at a large format retailer. The difference is that I've had years of first hand experience with a better way of doing things, unlike many people who have only ever known shopping by car in the suburbs.

The more I think about it reason #5 actually represents the biggest reason I don't like shopping at large format retail. It's a poor imitation of what shopping in one's neighbourhood can be like. Of course it requires a different built form than the suburbs and there is very little we can do to fix them. The last forty years have locked in a very large portion of our population to a mediocre simulacrum of urban living. I wish our cities had been planned better so that the economic necessity of moving to the suburbs didn't require one to forfeit the convenience and enjoyment of urban living. The street layout and scale of 19th century streetcar suburbs are simply better than the latter half of the 20th century's automobile suburbs. I've lived both and I say with certainly that I'm right.

Are you a Jane Jacobs fan by any chance?

[SFUVancouver]

Are you a Jane Jacobs fan by any chance?

Well I felt this way before I ever picked up a book of hers. When I did read several of her books it was a remarkable experience because suddenly I had words for the vague concepts or feelings that I had before but lacked words to express. It's like learning a recipe for a meal you like. You have enjoyed it and have a vague idea of what went into it, but it only becomes clear once you sit down and read the recipe. When conversations like this come up at school some people are dumbstruck that I live the way I do. They just can't fathom it. It is illustrative of just how much different built forms and spatial patterns can change people's daily lives.

[mezzanine]

^Not to hijack the thread, but i dislike the supervalue on davie. My big reason is that during the GVRD water problem last year, they insisted on selling bottled water per bottle, not by case at their usual (discounted)prices, in contrast to all other stores in DT. In other words, they were blantantly profiteering. They don't strike me as being good neighbours.

And I do shop a lot at the DT costco. the site itself is hard pressed for other uses and the costco was an inovative way to use it. It provides more choice - i still go to many other stores in DT, but my driving is reduced by having a 'big-box' in my hood.

[cornholio]

To Walmart you go once a month, to your local smaller stores you will need to go 5 times a month. Thats a tremendous waste of time during which you can continue being a productive member of society. After all there was allot of energy invested in to your early life so you can contribute to society now, wasting your time is wasting your life, which is wasting energy which in the end always leads to a unneeded strain on our environment. After all we are only carbon based machines.

On a more serious note, Boris, your local economy will be fine, the sweat shops in other parts of the world allow those countries to build up infrastructure and educate their workforce, those are two prerequisites of a industrialized country. Look at Taiwan, Singapore, and parts of China as being good examples of their economy getting started up on sweat shops and then maturing to a modern functioning industrialized economy, while those sweat shops moved to new places to repeat the process.

Though depending on a persons philosophy this could be bad, after all the end result of capitalism is going to be making the pooling of everything and maximizing efficiency which will result in a homogeneous world and people being like robotic sheep, plus the pooling of wealth so like I mentioned the rich get richer and the poor get poorer but the wealth will ultimately get redistributed through probably some big event.

By the way i consider my self borderline communist.

[boden]

I'd say McDonald's has done more to ruin society then any other corporation.

Depends on the angle you look at it from, certainly I know what you are saying. In some ways they are just as bad....but in defense of McDonalds they created their market for the most part....whereas Wal-Mart stole theirs.
And, McDonald's always provides the public, and not just patrons, with clean restrooms........AND they have good fries! :eat::eat::eat:

[niwell]

To Walmart you go once a month, to your local smaller stores you will need to go 5 times a month. Thats a tremendous waste of time during which you can continue being a productive member of society. After all there was allot of energy invested in to your early life so you can contribute to society now, wasting your time is wasting your life, which is wasting energy which in the end always leads to a unneeded strain on our environment. After all we are only carbon based machines.



That is easily one of the most tenuous arguments that I've heard in a long time. To assume that every Walmart shopper only needs to shop 1/5th as much because of the perception of greater selection. And therefore shopping there saves the environment! Just.... wow.

Anyway, I don't shop at Walmart ever really. I don't agree with their business practices (sweatshops in developing nations leading to industrialization is an even more tenuous argument), and even if I was indifferent, their prices aren't all that great. At Walmart you save what, $.30 on a $20 item? Not worth it IMO. Plus I have greater selection of goods at a multitude of local stores at the end of my block. If I really want cheap crap I can walk 5 minutes to Honest Ed's. The choice is simple to me.

[mbeaumont]

I rarely go, since I don't buy clothes, or food at Walmart, sometimes I'll go to pick up detergent or shampoo something of the like because its cheaper there than a pharmacy, but I regret the decision every time, I love the low prices, but the walmart on Decare in Montreal is like a zoo, You have to fend for your life just walking through the aisles

[vid]

ha ha youre kidding, do you have a photo a this "city hall"

http://www.thunderbay.ca/images/cityhall/cityhall.gif

The grey on top was (I don't know if it still is, they recently replaced many parts of the facade) plastic panels, and the light cone things are plastic, too. I'm also quite sure that the marble is face, as the pattern seems to, uh, repeat. :) The rest of the facade is that cheap gravel-mold stuff. After seeing what it replaced, it's enough to make you cry. :( The building isn't even big enough anymore, only about 15% of the city government fits in it! They have occupied most of a 200,000 sqft mall! :rolleyes:

[boden]

Wal-Mart is about to build a superstore in Belleville.....and if they weren't greedy enough already......they are going to sell groceries.
Other than a few 8 dollar an hour jobs, and real estate taxes not much more than I pay on my house, all of the money will not only leave Belleville, but Ontario and Canada as well.

[vid]

WalMart wants to build a supercentre here, but we won't let them. People use the greenspace behind it as a park! :D Sam's Club also want's to open but the only lot big enough for a Sam's Club in the entire city has really poor visibility. Unless the got a permit to locate a giant sign 100m away, they will be hidden behind, of all things, the Labour Centre, and an Old Navy.

[boden]

Here is some of the carnage Wal-Mart has left behind in the once lovely (and could be again) downtown Belleville.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1026/1324051952_18547e0172_b.jpg

[SpongeG]

^Not to hijack the thread, but i dislike the supervalue on davie. My big reason is that during the GVRD water problem last year, they insisted on selling bottled water per bottle, not by case at their usual (discounted)prices, in contrast to all other stores in DT. In other words, they were blantantly profiteering. They don't strike me as being good neighbours.

And I do shop a lot at the DT costco. the site itself is hard pressed for other uses and the costco was an inovative way to use it. It provides more choice - i still go to many other stores in DT, but my driving is reduced by having a 'big-box' in my hood.

the davie supervalue and the one just off commercial are owned by the hells angels

I like going at night to the davie one to be followed around :tup: and than ahve to beg to buy some cheese since they lock it up :haha:

and they also charge a lot more than extra foods or super store for the same things

[SpongeG]

Here is some of the carnage Wal-Mart has left behind in the once lovely (and could be again) downtown Belleville.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1026/1324051952_18547e0172_b.jpg

lovely downtown belleville- good one :haha:

im sorry i hated living there - such a crap hole

[ScottFromCalgary]

The hell is wrong with you free market, hard righters? You support exploitation of cheap foreign labour under the false assumption that it is lifting those people out of poverty. You support the destruction of the local economy and thus jobs at home to support such global exploitation, as well as money fleeing from the city. You deny that they are sweat shops, even though there is a long and well-known history of human rights abuses in such places. And we are supposed to praise and hail this process because of an efficient supply chain and ultra-cheap goods? And WE are the spoiled ones?

Have you ever taken a course in economics Boris, or just geography/urban studies?

[Policy Wonk]

just try reading some of his screeds on rent control,

[401_King]

don't pizza places like dominoes and pizza pizza close out traditional mom and pop pizza parlors? should we boycott those places?

Talking about shitty pay for walmart employees.... Didn't the united auto workers go on strike today against Chrysler? should we boycott chrysler?

don't the clothes and shoes we wear that we buy in stores get made in sweatshops in asia? should we boycott clothes??!

wal mart isn't the only store that has these problems. why do people seem to single out wal mart? i think the majority of ppl could care less about this argument anyway. the ppl on this forum are a little extreme and passionate in their views i think and don't necessarily represent whats really out there.

wal mart is such a non traditional corporate giant. their corporate office is a total joke, its a 1 floor office building in the middle of nowhere USA..... They dont build skyscrapers to boost their ego like other giants. Their company is built on the foundation of saving every penny---by being cheap and efficiently using cash. They dont waste money on stuff that their competition do. like their CEO and CFO fly economy class for business trips...can u believe that?! from a business and economic perspective you really have to admire a company that is able to compete like this!

[vid]

"don't pizza places like dominoes and pizza pizza close out traditional mom and pop pizza parlors? should we boycott those places?"

They do, in a way, but then they're franchised. A local coffee house was replaced by a Tim Hortons, but that's because the owner of the coffee house wanted to turn it into a Tim Hortons. He now owns the Tim Horton's franchise at that location.

WalMart isn't like that.

Besides, local pizza places are better. I got double-double for dinner tonight (Only place open after 11pm! wtf?) and they're crap compared to the locally owned Golden Crown (which has a 20 inch pizza for 14 bucks! Unlimited toppings! It's like 1985 or something!) And double-double pizza is crap when it's cold, compared to Golden Crown.

Also, those pizza places or coffee shops only put other pizza places or coffee shops out of business. Walmart can put the independent grocer, many clothing stores, auto shops, toy stores, etc., out of business, with just one location. It's jobs pay less than locally owned businesses (always minimum wage and nothing much higher than that) so their employees can't spend much money, and that slows the economy, which is based significantly on spending. It's a double whammy from that perspective. (And we leave out they way they treat distributors, some have gone out of businesses because of Wal-Mart's agression)

"Talking about shitty pay for walmart employees.... Didn't the united auto workers go on strike today against Chrysler? should we boycott chrysler?"

People that work a Chrysler make 34.00$ an hour. People at Walmart make 8.00$ an hour. (Less if you're under sixteen, and many are).

Another thing -- the people at walmart don't earn enough to pay income tax, so that's another hole there. Less income tax revenue from the government means higher income taxes for those that do earn enough to pay them.

[401_King]

It's jobs pay less than locally owned businesses (always minimum wage and nothing much higher than that) so their employees can't spend much money, and that slows the economy, which is based significantly on spending.

ahh i minored in economics sonny! 70% of GDP to be exact. but you fail to mention the increased spending in the region due to the walmart than if it werent there. i definitely do not agree about ur argument how wal mart hurts the economy, i laughed. wal mart is a magnet for spending. they have crazy techniques and strategies of selling things that people dont need (multipliers). of course all the profits are hogged by walmart and not the mom and pop shops!

[vid]

"of course all the profits are hogged by walmart and not the mom and pop shops!"

And walmart's profits go where?

[Boris2k7]

Have you ever taken a course in economics Boris, or just geography/urban studies?

Yes, I have, and I can see exploitation as easily as anyone else. Frankly, most of what the textbooks say is pure BS and doesn't quite pan out in real life. For instance: supply-side economics.

i think the majority of ppl could care less about this argument anyway.

Which is the problem in the first place... ignorance and carelessness is not an excuse!

but you fail to mention the increased spending in the region due to the walmart than if it werent there. i definitely do not agree about ur argument how wal mart hurts the economy, i laughed. wal mart is a magnet for spending. they have crazy techniques and strategies of selling things that people dont need (multipliers). of course all the profits are hogged by walmart and not the mom and pop shops!

Uhh, yeah, which is the whole point of the anti-WM argument. The owners of the m&p shops are going to profit and put most of the money they earn back into the local economy. WM just takes those profits and sends them somewhere outside of the country. Who cares about increased spending in the region if none of the money gets circulated back into the region?

[401_King]

And walmart's profits go where?

walmart profits --> GDP --> increase economic growth --> increase my portfolio value --> makes me rich ---> spend at wal mart ---> GDP....

[401_King]

Uhh, yeah, which is the whole point of the anti-WM argument. The owners of the m&p shops are going to profit and put most of the money they earn back into the local economy. WM just takes those profits and sends them somewhere outside of the country. Who cares about increased spending in the region if none of the money gets circulated back into the region?

for me, i look at the region as a 'whole country' rather than a community. there is a lot more than this process of simply "sending money out of the country" and everyone loses....their profits and our spending at a canadian walmart or any store for that matter adds value to our canadian economy whether you choose to accept it or not. each transaction in canada gets counted in our economic accounting regardless of where the cash gets sent. see my above post for a simple relation for a macro refresher.