[mrherodotus]

Most of these are from areas of the city that are still solid. Most were taken on the west side, with a few from just outside the city limits. They range from the utilitarian, to the very handsome. Detroit's biggest challenge may be to prevent these areas from falling apart.



http://www.pbase.com/image/87317045/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317046/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317047/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317048/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317049/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317050/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317051/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317052/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317053/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317054/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317055/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317057/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317058/original.jpg



The main streets in Detroit are soooo wide. Good for traffic, but not so good for pedestrians. 6 lanes plus parking.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317059/original.jpg


Considering that these houses are on a main artery, they are fairly well maintained. If the structures on the main street are in good shape, usually the housing on the side streets is too. Decay along the main streets is usually an early sign that a neighborhood is in decline.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317060/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317061/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317062/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317063/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317064/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317065/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317066/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317067/original.jpg


Vernor Street in Mexicantown is an anomaly in Detroit. In a city famous for it's impossibly wide streets, Vernor is a commercial street of normal width. As a result, it is pedestrian friendly, and quite lively.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317068/original.jpg


Housing from before the rise of the automobile industry. These are very typical of late 19th Century worker cottages in the Great Lakes region. Similar streets can be found close to the core in Cleveland, Milwaukee, Buffalo, and other cities in this region.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317069/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317070/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317071/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317073/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317074/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317075/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317076/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317077/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317081/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317083/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317085/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317086/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317087/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317088/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317089/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317090/original.jpg


Corktown is Detroit's only remaining neighborhood from the mid-19th Century. Much of it has been lost, but what remains is quite charming.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317091/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317092/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317093/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317094/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317095/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317096/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317097/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317098/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317099/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317100/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317101/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317102/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317103/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317104/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317105/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317106/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317107/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317108/original.jpg


A solid block, on the troubled eastside.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317110/original.jpg


Indian Village.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317111/original.jpg


Ugh. Dreadful infill.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317112/original.jpg


This could be a much nicer looking building.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317113/original.jpg


A beautiful church, and some nice homes on the eastside.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317114/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317116/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317117/original.jpg


Showplace homes on E. Grand Ave. While this group of homes is in decent shape, the deplorable condition of many of the large homes on Grand, (which was designed to be Detroit's showplace), lends itself to the common perception of Detroit as a city in ruins.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317118/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317119/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317121/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317122/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317125/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317128/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317129/original.jpg


Super wide Woodward Avenue.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317132/original.jpg


New Center.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317135/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317136/original.jpg



Hmmmm!
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317139/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317142/original.jpg



Goodbye! More Detroit to come.

[denveraztec]

Fantastic old homes. Neighborhoods like this are saved traditionally by the owners. If the structures are historic, there may be funding available at the local and state level to help the owners kept them from disrepair. The problem is finding dedicated owners able and/or willing to take on the task. Thank you for sharing!

[Stephenapolis]

Thanks for sharing. Ir is nice to see some of the more stable areas of Detroit.

[jeremai]

Great thread; there are some really nice looking houses there.

[Jularc]

Yeah it looks safe from that decay. Lets just hope it remains that way.

[JivecitySTL]

Party Store Paradise.

[STLgasm]

That's more like it!

[JackStraw]

I could live there

[Evergrey]

very informative post

[LivingIn622]

nice pictures of the city. Do you think in the near future you will be taking any pics of Downtown Detroit.

[Chelsea Spy]

Great tour - some handsome suburbia... I'm glad the whole city hasn't gone to hell (but the zombies are coming I guess...)

[BUFFALOVE!!]

Good call, that infil is horrendous. These shots look like transition neighborhoods, there must be nicer parts to the city than this

[ColDayMan]

Nice!

[hudkina]

Great pics, mrherodotus. It's good to see some of the more overlooked neighborhoods throughout the city.:)

[hudkina]

Good call, that infil is horrendous. These shots look like transition neighborhoods, there must be nicer parts to the city than this

There are... He was showing the more traditional neighborhoods as opposed to the wealthy neighborhoods or abandoned neighborhoods that are typically viewed on this forum.

There are dozens of neighborhoods throughout the city that were built for some of the wealthiest people of their times. Brush Park (1860's-1900's), Indian Village (1880's-1920's), Boston-Edison (1890's-1930's), Palmer Woods (1920's-1950's), etc. were some of the most exclusive neighborhoods of their respective eras. Other upper middle-class neighborhoods such as Sherwood Forest, Rosedale Park, East English Village, University District, Rosdale-Grandmont, etc. are other neighborhoods with nicer homes.

Here is Sherwood Forest. As of the last census it was the third wealthiest neighborhood in the city behind its neighbor Palmer Woods and the much smaller Joseph Berry neighborhood on the east side.
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/westside/sherwoodforest/021.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/westside/sherwoodforest/029.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/westside/sherwoodforest/032.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/westside/sherwoodforest/033.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/westside/sherwoodforest/035.jpg

The Joseph Berry neighborhood has lots of housing from all different eras of Detroit starting in the late 1800's up until the newest housing built in the last few years. Here are some examples of the newer "in-fill" that can be found in the neighborhood.
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/eastside/josephberry/015.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/eastside/josephberry/016.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/eastside/josephberry/017.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/eastside/josephberry/018.jpg
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/eastside/josephberry/022.jpg

Joseph Berry is also home to the mayor of Detroit:
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/eastside/josephberry/007.jpg

[Jularc]

^ I am amazed you can find those expensive looking homes in the city of Detroit. Nice stuff. How much for one of those?

[mrherodotus]

nice pictures of the city. Do you think in the near future you will be taking any pics of Downtown Detroit.

Patience please. They are coming.

[hudkina]

^ I am amazed you can find those expensive looking homes in the city of Detroit. Nice stuff. How much for one of those?

I'm amazed that everyone thinks that all 139 sq. mi. of Detroit looks like this:

http://www.pbase.com/image/87306314/original.jpg

There are over 930,000 people living in the city with the average household making nearly $50,000 annually. Over 70% of the residents are above the poverty-line, with the percentage of adults even higher. You don't think that there are typical middle-class neighborhoods in the city or even upper-class enclaves? Would you have asked the same question of Miami where the poverty rate is higher and the average income is lower?

As far as the price, I wouldn't know, but I would assume they average between $200,000 and $1 million.

[Evergrey]

930k? I thought it was below 900k now... or is that a Social Compact guess?

Census 2006 Estimate: 871,121 (-8.4% change from 2000)
Median Household Income 2005: $28,069 (down from $29,526 in 2000)
Poverty Rate 2007: 32.5% (highest rate amongst American cities over 250,000; 8.6% higher than Miami)


http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2005/10063.png

I'm not out to bash Detroit... but let's get our facts straight, hudkina.

[hudkina]

You do realize that the Census Bureau numbers are the actual "guess" and the Social Compact study is an actual study of the city. Also, I was quoting the average income, not the median income, but even then would you expect a city where half the population earns over $30,000 a year to look like that? Especially when many American cities have similar median incomes?

I'm sure lots of people have terrible opinions of Pittsburgh but how many of them are close to the actual truth? Is Pittsburgh nothing but a polluted wasteland of abandoned steel factories surrounded by neighborhoods of toothless Appalachians?

[Crawford]

You do realize that the Census Bureau numbers are the actual "guess" and the Social Compact study is an actual study of the city. Also, I was quoting the average income, not the median income, but even then would you expect a city where half the population earns over $30,000 a year to look like that? Especially when many American cities have similar median incomes?

I'm sure lots of people have terrible opinions of Pittsburgh but how many of them are close to the actual truth? Is Pittsburgh nothing but a polluted wasteland of abandoned steel factories surrounded by neighborhoods of toothless Appalachians?

LOL, the Census is the official estimate. Social Compact is an unknown noprofit. Feel free to show skepticism on Census estimates (which are conducted by Phds, are lavishly funded, and have very large sample sizes), but then why on earth would you trust some tiny, underfunded nonprofit with an agenda?

Average income is meaningless. Median income is an accurate barometer of community wealth.

These shots are more "typical' Detroit than in the other thread. It will be interesting to see what happens in these neighborhoods over the next few years. Will they fall into abandonment, or will they be saved by some forthcoming demographic trend (immigration, gentrification, high fuel costs, etc.)?

[hudkina]

The Census Bureau bases their population estimates on county-level data and then disperses the "estimates" among the cities based on housing construction. They give far great emphasis on areas where new housing is always going on the market and tend to overlook built-out cities. They even operate under the assumption that a certain amount of housing built before a certain year is going to be "retired". The American Community Survey which tries to get an arguably more accurate mid-census picture of our cities is still a relatively new concept and we won't know how accurate they are until the 2010 data is released.

I'm not saying that the Social Compact study (keep in mind their studies have shown similar results to many other cities throughout the nation) is the ultimate authority on Detroit's population, but to assume that the Census estimates are is just as misguided.

[Michi]

^ I am amazed you can find those expensive looking homes in the city of Detroit. Nice stuff. How much for one of those?

As the saying goes: "Detroit invented the middle class".

Detroit was once known as the slumless city. The Paris of the Midwest. The Detroit of today, though aging, is still a relatively new phenomenon. Southeast Michigan, also called "Detroit" is among (at least has been among) the most wealthy areas of the country.

There was a period of about 30 years, starting in the 1960s where the city took a poop and cleaned its colon of all of its people that could move out. They now hover around the city leaching on in every way imaginable, yet keep enough distance to claim they are not accountable for the mess they left behind. Look up "American Throw-away society" in the dictionary and all the photos are from Detroit.

The housing stock that you see in Detroit is very much representative of the city in its heyday. Automobile and other industrial inventors and innovators who made fortunes in this part of the country building the exclusive neighborhoods. Well-off middle class homes from the brick to the wood-frame line the streets both densly and semi-densly. The working class masses built their dwellings near the old "verticle" factories, in a density pattern that allowed them to walk or take a short transit ride to the jobsite.

All that is completely gone now and the functionality of Detroit is turned upside down. During the mass exodus, the infiltration of poverty took over the neighborhoods which were extremely vulnerable. Part of the reason why almost every commercial strip is dead is because they were built for transit, which we no longer have. All of the new replacements are strip malls built to accomodate for the automobile.

For a great personal touch on this kind of imagry, take a look at this fascinating slideshow:

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/detnews/2007/news/0721dobelstreet/index.html

[mrherodotus]

You do realize that the Census Bureau numbers are the actual "guess" and the Social Compact study is an actual study of the city. Also, I was quoting the average income, not the median income, but even then would you expect a city where half the population earns over $30,000 a year to look like that? Especially when many American cities have similar median incomes?

I'm sure lots of people have terrible opinions of Pittsburgh but how many of them are close to the actual truth? Is Pittsburgh nothing but a polluted wasteland of abandoned steel factories surrounded by neighborhoods of toothless Appalachians?

Actually, the one thing Pittsburgh had in it's favor over many other industrial cities, is the fact that nearly all of it's industry was along the rivers. This was largely due to two factors. First was the easy transportation the rivers provided. Second was the fact that Pittsburgh's rugged terrain meant that the river banks were one of the few places that had enough level land to build huge complexes on. This level land also attracted the rail lines, reinforcing the attractiveness of the river banks to industry. Why does this help now? It helps because of the high value of riverfront property. Because the land is so valuable, the empty mills were quickly swept away, and the land redeveloped. Thus Pittsburgh is largely spared being littered with hulking abandoned industrial structures like many other cities. Many of the surrounding mill towns, with their riverfronts being less valuable, have not been so lucky.

[Evergrey]

Detroit was once known as the slumless city. The Paris of the Midwest. The Detroit of today, though aging, is still a relatively new phenomenon. Southeast Michigan, also called "Detroit" is among (at least has been among) the most wealthy areas of the country.

[/url]

Just to add on to your points.

The Per Capita Personal Income of the Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI MSA ranks 57th out of the country's 363 MSAs at $38,174 in 2006. The PCPI increased by 1.8% from 2005-2006 compared to 3.9% from 2004-2005.

The Total Personal Income of the Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI MSA ranks 12th at $170,600 (millions). The TPI increased by 1.5% from 2005-2006 compared to 3.5% from 2004-2005.

Detroit MSA PCPI is 105% of the national PCPI of $36,307.

Detroit MSA PCPI is 100% (ever so slightly above) of the PCPI of all metropolitan areas: $38,109.

http://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/mpi/mpi_newsrelease.htm

[Wheelingman04]

I love these neighborhood photo threads.

[boden]

Good work hero. Did you take any downtown pics?

[mrherodotus]

Good work hero. Did you take any downtown pics?

Of course. Stay tuned.

[boden]

I figured as much!:tup:

[PA Pride]

Nice work dotus. You are snappin pics like your life depended on it.

[WIGS]

very interesting thread


LOL, the Census is the official estimate. Social Compact is an unknown noprofit. Feel free to show skepticism on Census estimates (which are conducted by Phds, are lavishly funded, and have very large sample sizes), but then why on earth would you trust some tiny, underfunded nonprofit with an agenda?


I believe estimate is the key word. For example, the city of St. Louis has fought like hell with the Census Bureau because of their undercounts.
we'll have to wait till 2010 to see just how much population loss has occurred or if Detroit's population has stabilized by then.

[illmatic774]

Wasn't there a point in time where one of these estimates undercounted Chicago by about 200,000 people?

Yeah, I'll wait until 2010. There is no way that Detroit has already emptied out to below 850,000 people. I'm thinking closer to 905,000-915,000 range.

[ChrisLA]

Detroit is one of those cities I have always been interested in seeing. Although I like to visit, its has not been a city I would plan a whole vacation around. I keep hoping my manger would send me there to see our operations center in the suburbs of Detroit. My only concern is he one of the micro mangers, and probably wouldn't want me to venture too far from hotel during my free time. He's all about image (which is okay to a point), but with me he wouldn't have to worry about me being unprofessional or getting into any trouble or embarrassing him. Its not me, nor is it my style.

Anyway back to the subject.

Great photos, I wouldn't say these neighborhoods look all that great, but yet not what one would expect. Detroit has such a bad reputation, so its good to see these.

[ChrisLA]

The main streets in Detroit are soooo wide. Good for traffic, but not so good for pedestrians. 6 lanes plus parking.
http://www.pbase.com/image/87317059/original.jpg



Take away two of the lanes on that Detroit picture and there you have something similar. This is Central Avenue on the east side of south central Los Angeles. A photo Segun took back in Jaunary 2007. In fact a lot of south central LA commercial blvds look similar to the one above. Especially the ones on the east side as the further west you go in the hood the better the area gets, and the commercial streets are much cleaner, example would be Crenshaw Blvd.
http://www.streetsandsoul.com/edited/lae058.jpg
courtesy of Segun

[Michi]

Wasn't there a point in time where one of these estimates undercounted Chicago by about 200,000 people?

Yeah, I'll wait until 2010. There is no way that Detroit has already emptied out to below 850,000 people. I'm thinking closer to 905,000-915,000 range.
SEMCOG is projecting the city's population somewhere around 600,000 by 2030.

What do you mean, ChrisLA? I didn't get the connection of venturing away from your surroundings and image. If you ever DO get the opportunity to visit Detroit, I HIGHLY recommend it (to anyone). Especially, if you have a tour guide (you don't even have to ask). Everyone should visit Detroit at least once. Not only is it the best city to tell America's story, it is one of few cities that changed the world over. It may have been reduced to dust, but you can still spend a good amount of time being a tourist in the city and surrounding area. :)

[Michi]

dp

[ChrisLA]

SEMCOG is projecting the city's population somewhere around 600,000 by 2030.

What do you mean, ChrisLA? I didn't get the connection of venturing away from your surroundings and image. If you ever DO get the opportunity to visit Detroit, I HIGHLY recommend it (to anyone). Especially, if you have a tour guide (you don't even have to ask). Everyone should visit Detroit at least once. Not only is it the best city to tell America's story, it is one of few cities that changed the world over. It may have been reduced to dust, but you can still spend a good amount of time being a tourist in the city and surrounding area. :)


Michi,

My manager has this thing about how his department is viewed, and he wants nothing that would bring any negative light on us. Some of my other colleagues have visited our Michigan operations centerk, and he strongly suggested before the trip they not even drink acholol.

He's also acompany them since our only reason for visiting the site is to meet those we work with daily, and tour the site. I remember one co-worker was invited to go out to a bar get a tour around Auburn Hills, and he again strongly suggested not to. One person even said he didn't even want to them order certain foods ( I think it was a steak).

Don't get me wrong, he's a very nice manager, and one of the best I've worked with. He's a very easy going person, just talks to much in the morning when I'm tired and ready to go home (lol). He seems to forget I've worked all night, and he had a good nights sleep.

Anyway I don't make a big deal about it since I see it like this. If they area paying for a business trip, I can understand his concerns. Personally he'w wouldn't have to worry about me getting drunk, I'm one of those who always like to be in control of myself. I do drink, but I always limit it to no more than two drink anyway.

Who knows, if I do make it our for a tour with this company, I'll have to find a way to see Detroit on my free time.

[the pope]

generic compliment.

[DetroitSky]

Nice shots.

[mthq]

good to see the better side of Detroit!

[newboldphilly]

So who lives in these neighborhoods? immigrants? middle-class blacks? blue-collar white-ethnics?

on PGH - i think the thing it really had going for it was that the industrial meltdown came 20 years later than a place like Philadelphia. An extra 20 years of decay and deferred maintenance can really eff a neighborhood up - the housing stock especially.

[arbeiter]

god, what potential that city has. i fear it may never realize it, at least not within the next 10 years. if michigan had a good economy, it would be a different story.

http://www.pbase.com/image/87317132/original.jpg

that reminds me of any bad neighborhood's high street in brooklyn/queens/bronx

[Michi]

Michi,
...Who knows, if I do make it our for a tour with this company, I'll have to find a way to see Detroit on my free time.
Well, if you ever get the chance, I'd be happy to show you around...if I myself am still here. Which doesn't look good.

that reminds me of any bad neighborhood's high street in brooklyn/queens/bronx
That's actually an improvement project that was completed about 2 years ago. Imagine big, black, ugly awnings hanging over the sidewalk, which was a development impediment that made for an affect where the retail could not stay open, so the storefronts were blighted. That picture is from New Center, which is just down the street from the Fisher Building on Woodward Avenue. It's a neighborhood in transition as it attracts more residential units.

[hudkina]

So who lives in these neighborhoods? immigrants? middle-class blacks? blue-collar white-ethnics?


The majority of the neighborhoods in Detroit are at least 90% black. There are six different areas of the city where blacks make up less than 50% of the population. If you take away the Greater Downtown area plus those six neighborhoods, Detroit would be 92% black.

The largest non-majority area is Southwest Detroit. The area consists of several different neighborhoods including Delray, Vernor-Springwells, Mexicantown, etc. The total population is about 71,000 with African Americans making up about 11% of the population. The majority of the residents in Southwest Detroit are actually hispanics, who are fueling the growth in one of the few areas of the city seeing a rise in population.

The second largest is the Warrendale neighborhood near the border of Detroit. It's a small section of the city south of Tireman St that juts into neighboring Dearborn. The total population is about 28,000 with African Americans making up about 30% of the population. The area is home to quite a few middle eastern residents with shops along Warren Ave.

The third largest is the Balduck Park area that sits at the easternmost corner of the city near the Grosse Pointe border. The total population is about 13,000 with African Americans and Caucasians each making up about 45% of the population.

The fourth largest is the area that sits north and east of the city of Hamtramck (which is surrounded by Detroit). Hamtramck is known as one of the most diverse suburbs in the nation, home to a large number of immigrants from all over the world. The neighborhoods that are adjacent to Hamtramck have absorbed some of those immigrants. The Hamtramck border neighborhoods have a total population of about 10,000. African Americans and Caucasians each make up about 33% of the population, while Asians make up another 20% of the population.

The fifth largest is the Five Points area that sits at the far northwestern corner of the city between Telegraph Rd and the Redford border. The total population is about 7,000 with African Americans and Caucasians each making up about 45% of the total population.

The smallest is the Chaldeantown area that runs along a small strip of 7 Mile Rd near the cities nothern border. The population is about 5,000 with African Americans making up about 45% of the population. The area is home to a large number of Chaldean immigrants with shops along the 7 Mile Rd corridor.

Greater Downtown Detroit (including Downtown, Midtown, New Center, Corktown, Woodbridge, Eastern Market, Lafayette Park, Rivertown, and the West Riverfront) is more diverse than the city as a whole, but African Americans make up nearly 2/3 of the total population. Midtown (particularly the areas surrounding Wayne State University) is the most diverse neighborhood in the Greater Downtown area.

So if you added together those seven areas (even though they aren't near to each other) the total population would be about 180,000 with African Americans making up about 36% of the population. The rest of Detroit has a total population of about 775,000 with African Americans making up about 92% of the population.

Here's a map:
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/detroitneighborhoods.jpg

[Michi]

Uh...I've never heard of Balduck Park before.

*quack*

[hudkina]

It's a somewhat large park near the border with Harper Woods/Grosse Pointe Woods. It's cut in half by Chandler Park Dr. The Balduck Park neighborhood is basically everything near the park...;)

[Evergrey]

fascinating post and map, hudkina... thanks!

[Exodus]

You do realize that the Census Bureau numbers are the actual "guess" and the Social Compact study is an actual study of the city. Also, I was quoting the average income, not the median income, but even then would you expect a city where half the population earns over $30,000 a year to look like that? Especially when many American cities have similar median incomes?

I'm sure lots of people have terrible opinions of Pittsburgh but how many of them are close to the actual truth? Is Pittsburgh nothing but a polluted wasteland of abandoned steel factories surrounded by neighborhoods of toothless Appalachians?Yes, and we call them Steelers fans:haha:

[LivingIn622]

Blacks in Detroit make up 80 percent of the population, not 92%. Warrendale is very diverse, If you drive through there you'll find, hispanics, blacks, muslims, whites, and indians.

Hudkina. Southwest Detroit is more white than hispanic, and you missed holy redeemer neighborhhod which is about the least african neighborhood in Detroit, whith only 5.4 percent black. Here are the demographics for the southwest detroit neighborhoods. Hubbard Richard pop(2,000) white 37%, black 20%, Hispanic 32%. Delray pop(1,891) white 53%, black 21%, hispanic 18%. Holy redeemer pop(8,000) white 50.6%, black 5.4%, Hispanic 35%.