[Hed Kandi]

Vancouver Site Finally Confirmed


October 17th, 2007

After years of speculation and anticipation, there is finally confirmation that that an Apple store will occupy a space inside the Pacific Centre Mall in downtown Vancouver (BC). The three-block indoor mall has been undergoing a long-term and extensive renovation that included demolition, construction and the juggling and moving of several retailers, along with the addition of new stores. But Apple isn’t among those new tenants. Instead, additional construction will begin in 2009 for retail space where Apple will locate its first western Canada store. That work will be finished by the holiday season of 2009 and, most importantly, for the 2010 Olympic Games that begin in February.


http://www.ifoapplestore.com/db/2007/10/17/vancouver-site-finally-confirmed/

[Rusty Gull]

Lame! What is Apple thinking, building their first Western Canada shop inside a mall? What a letdown.

Why not Granville Street? Or Robson? Or even Georgia Street. But buried inside the mall -- wedged between an Orange Julius and Randy River? Yeesh.

[Nutterbug]

What's so bad about indoor malls? Less interaction with street traffic--good for both drivers and pedestrians alike.

[Rusty Gull]

Trust me. I've been to street-level Apple Stores, and I've been to the indoor shopping mall versions (ie, the Toronto location inside the Eaton Centre). It makes all the difference in the world.

If they're going to stick it in some generic shopping mall, why don't they save themselves a few dollars and settle for Coquitlam Centre or a strip mall in Surrey?

[mr.x2]

we hardly know the details....for all we know, there could be both an outdoor and indoor entrance to the store like the old and new Holt Renfrew.

[Rusty Gull]

^Good point, X. If it goes the Holt Renfrew path, that would be ideal. But I would hate for it to be holed up in the basement next to the food court.

At any rate, I am happy that Apple is finally showing up in Vancouver.

[mr.x2]

But I would hate for it to be holed up in the basement next to the food court.

This is Apple...their stores are precious...do you really think they would let that happen???

[Smooth]

This is Apple...their stores are precious...do you really think they would let that happen???

The Apple store in downtown Portland is in the basement of one of their downtown malls. It was really tucked away... I walked by it once without even noticing it and had to refer to a directory before I found it.

[mr.x2]

The Apple store in downtown Portland is in the basement of one of their downtown malls. It was really tucked away... I walked by it once without even noticing it and had to refer to a directory before I found it.

okay, then ummm....uhhh...this is Vancouver, Canada's third largest city, a rapidly growing metropolis, host city of the 2010 Olympics?

:notacrook:

[Nutterbug]

This is Apple...their stores are precious...do you really think they would let that happen???

Food court area is high traffic. It would make good business sense to have at least one entrance adjacent to it.

[westcoast604]

My best guess would be that it's going upstairs. Right now theres not much traffic up there, and is generally dead. Once H&M opens with an entrance on that level it will improve, along with an Apple store next to it. I could see it right next to the pedestrian bridge into Holt Renfrew, replacing the existing cell phone stores (if they are even still there?/enough room?). It seems to me that it would be in Pacific Center's best interest to locate it up there, as a store like Apple (along with H&M) is exactly what that floor needs to bring up traffic levels to that of the lower floor.

[Delirium]

it could also go in a redeveloped entrance at georgia & howe. wasn't this area slated for something new anyway?

http://www.aerenlund.dk/vancouver/images/pacific_centre.jpg

they could do something really cool here. plus it would be across the street from the new city centre station.

[mr.x2]

it could also go in a redeveloped entrance at georgia & howe. wasn't this area slated for something new anyway?

http://www.aerenlund.dk/vancouver/images/pacific_centre.jpg

they could do something really cool here. plus it would be across the street from the new city centre station.

that could be possible since the article does say this:

The three-block indoor mall has been undergoing a long-term and extensive renovation that included demolition, construction and the juggling and moving of several retailers, along with the addition of new stores. But Apple isn’t among those new tenants. Instead, additional construction will begin in 2009 for retail space where Apple will locate its first western Canada store.

[SpongeG]

The Apple store in downtown Portland is in the basement of one of their downtown malls. It was really tucked away... I walked by it once without even noticing it and had to refer to a directory before I found it.

yeah but portland has a few stores

there is suppossed to be a street one soon somewhere in portland

i think all of seattles stores are in malls - though some of them are in the outdoor "lifestyle" sections - like alderwood and university village

if its going in one of the expansions it could be cool

[marmorek]

YES!

Vancouver Opening Could Be Spring ‘08
October 31st, 2007
Apple has posted job listings for the future Pacific Centre mall in Vancouver (BC), a location that was confirmed here earlier this month. Based on the timing of previous store openings, the listings mean the store could open as early as next Spring, not early 2009 as previously predicted.

ifoAppleStore (http://www.ifoapplestore.com/)

[deasine]

All the better! =)

[SpongeG]

that would mean its going in the H&M part than since the stores going there are suppossed to open spring 2008

[mr.x2]

that would mean its going in the H&M part than since the stores going there are suppossed to open spring 2008

which also means there could be both a inside and outside entry to the new store like at the old Holt Renfrew....something you've all been worried about:

http://www.pacificcentre.com/rtecontent/image/pac_centrev2.jpg

[tintinium]

key word being additional construction.

They're not just a mall tenant. They'll be an anchor store.

That would be cool to see the Pacific Centre Arboreum replaced by an Apple Glass Cube.

[SpongeG]

that couldn't be complete in 6 months though - could it?

[mr.x2]

that couldn't be complete in 6 months though - could it?

it could, doesn't take too long to build something.

[deasine]

It all depends on the store size. And apple has standard designs for apple stores already... so most of that is covered.

[officedweller]

You'd never get approval to build it in 6 months. It must be in the H&M part - at least for now - they could move it later.

[SpongeG]

i just got back from Portland and the 2 Apple Stores we saw were packed when walking past

they will do pretty good once they set up here

[marmorek]

From MacNN.com:


Vancouver BC Apple Store construction begins

http://images.macnn.com/macnn/news/0710/ifo_071024_nystoresm.jpg (http://macnn.com/rd.php?id=90027)
Apple (http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/11/19/vancouver.store.underway/#) has begun construction on a new retail store (http://macnn.com/rd/90023==http://www.macnn.com/applestore) on the west coast of Canada, and has already painted covers over the job site to mask the workers' progress. The Cupertino-based company has listed job openings for the future store, which will reside in the Pacific Center Mall in the old Holt Renfrew location. The retail space rests in one of the busiest spots in the city, according to one MacNN reader, and may open in time for the forthcoming iPhone launch in Canada.

[mr.x2]

^ great news! looks like it's due for a spring completion, and it'll have an outside entrance afterall.

[SpongeG]

nice

what has ever become of the corner unit on granville and georgia?

i think it was radio shack than the source and at times its been condo showrooms etc.

its been empty a while now

is a prime locale i would think yet its empty

[osirisboy]

^i think its the ledcor site office for now anyway, not positive though.

[officedweller]

I think it is the site office.

The lower level Pacific Centre former Holt Renfrew space has signage up for a big Jacob store. It's pretty well most of the lower level. There's still space at the north end and the corner at the south end (former Armani space in HR, but very small). My guess is that the H&M (3 levels?) will take the bit on the north end of the lower mall - menswear? - and partial space on the upper mall and the whole level above that. That would leave room for Apple in the upper mall.

[Jacques]

I think it is the site office.

The lower level Pacific Centre former Holt Renfrew space has signage up for a big Jacob store. It's pretty well most of the lower level. There's still space at the north end and the corner at the south end (former Armani space in HR, but very small). My guess is that the H&M (3 levels?) will take the bit on the north end of the lower mall - menswear? - and partial space on the upper mall and the whole level above that. That would leave room for Apple in the upper mall.

I am a bit confused, is it APPLE who's located where the old H&R was or is H&M because other thread states H&M but today looking at it it sure look like huge steel beams are making its facade kind off the trademark used to set up a BOX such as in APPLE design!!!
any info?

[LeftCoaster]

Well H&M is only taking up about 80 percent of the old Holt site, so there is extra retail space, however it wont be Apple. Apple has stated that they are looking at a spot in Pacific Center that has street frontage, and all the old holt street frontage space is being used by H&M.

The Apple store could possibly be in the space where the Pacific Centre rotunda is, at W. Georgia and Howe, which looks like it is going to be redeveloped to meet the street and eliminate the open square. This site is still in its planning stages however, so it may not be habitable until too late for Apple, there are other sites available that meet their criteria though, and they were discussed previously in this thread.

The preliminary renderings of the redeveloped rotunda space show retail consisting of an Abercrombie & Fitch store and the new Hold Renfrew space, so obviously they are a bit out of date, and no tennants have locked up this potential space yet.

[Jacques]

Thanks Leftcoaster, I was in Pacific Mall and it publicized the opening of JACOB and COEX shoes, so I stood somewhat aghast, I was and I am looking forward to have a signature Apple store setting roots here, I just purchased an IMAC Pro and so far the only store that I found offer ABOVE quality service is the MAC STATION in Yaletown, they are truly a bunch of amazing guys, I am truly content that store exist, however having APPLE here would be great.
I will kepp touch with this thread for further development.

[SpongeG]

pacific centre said it was dividing the old HR into one big retailer (H&M) and than there was space for 9 more retailers depending on configuration i guess

I imagine H&M will have a small floor plan on the lower level a bigger one on the second and probably take up the entire third floor as its not accessible from the mall or street - knowing some other H&M stores - bottom level will probably be unisex - with the divided line and than mens on the second and womens on the 3rd

Since its not an Apple flagship it could be squeezed in on the second floor (street level) easily

[SpongeG]

Thanks Leftcoaster, I was in Pacific Mall and it publicized the opening of JACOB and COEX shoes, so I stood somewhat aghast, I was and I am looking forward to have a signature Apple store setting roots here, I just purchased an IMAC Pro and so far the only store that I found offer ABOVE quality service is the MAC STATION in Yaletown, they are truly a bunch of amazing guys, I am truly content that store exist, however having APPLE here would be great.
I will kepp touch with this thread for further development.

i think its GEOX shoes (from Italy) no COEX

[LeftCoaster]

pacific centre said it was dividing the old HR into one big retailer (H&M) and than there was space for 9 more retailers depending on configuration i guess

I imagine H&M will have a small floor plan on the lower level a bigger one on the second and probably take up the entire third floor as its not accessible from the mall or street - knowing some other H&M stores - bottom level will probably be unisex - with the divided line and than mens on the second and womens on the 3rd

Since its not an Apple flagship it could be squeezed in on the second floor (street level) easily

Not gunna happen. You are right about H&M taking up the entire 3rd floor, but H&M is taking up the entire street facing portion of the second floor also, the only retail spaces open for other retailers face the mall and have no street frontage what so ever. H&M has no space on the first floor (the floor below Granville st.), which is where the majority of the new retailers will be. There is only a small amount of space not being used by H&M on the second floor, and like i said it is all in the south end and mall facing.

[officedweller]

The old (existing) Jacob location will also be reconfigured (cut in half) when the Canada Line Station passge is built through it. That could be the location - on a corner - but I view Apple as an upper mall store, not a lower mall store and more frontage could be more opportunity for theft. Remember that stores can shuffle too - i.e. Le Chateau could move or it could go in at the base of 701 West Georgia on the corner - where the Source was temporarily located and which is currently a worksite office. They could pull a "Trump Tower" and replace the store's dark glass with clear glass just for the Apple Store.

[Jacques]

They could pull a "Trump Tower" and replace the store's dark glass with clear glass just for the Apple Store.
officedweller sound like a very good idea

[westcoast604]

The old (existing) Jacob location will also be reconfigured (cut in half) when the Canada Line Station passge is built through it. That could be the location - on a corner - but I view Apple as an upper mall store, not a lower mall store and more frontage could be more opportunity for theft. Remember that stores can shuffle too - i.e. Le Chateau could move or it could go in at the base of 701 West Georgia on the corner - where the Source was temporarily located and which is currently a worksite office. They could pull a "Trump Tower" and replace the store's dark glass with clear glass just for the Apple Store.

Theres signage up indicating that Jacob is moving into the old Holt space on the lower mall level.

[Kilgore Trout]

Lame! What is Apple thinking, building their first Western Canada shop inside a mall? What a letdown.

Apple opened its first Montreal store in a suburban mall. Their downtown location won't be ready until the spring.

Similarly, it has taken H&M more than a year to find a flagship spot in downtown Montreal since they first opened stores in five or six different malls.

[thefly]

It will have an entance off Granville Street. Store will be 5,354 sq ft in size.

[SpongeG]

nice

how soon till Pacific Centre is done - they say Spring so do they mean March? or like May?

i haven't seen the progress down there for a couple months now

[Jacques]

Apple Planning Flagship Store in Montreal
- First flagship store in Canada...
By: Victor Mihailescu, Apple News Editor


Enlarge picture
Apple already has a very strong retail presence in the US, with hundreds of stores where customers can try out, buy and service Apple products. However, in other countries, the situation is very different, with the bulk of Apple products being handled by various resellers with various degrees of professionalism. As such, it is not surprising that Apple plans to expand its retail presence
overseas.

While there have been several reports about Apple planning Apple Stores in Europe, a recent AppleInsider report has details about Apple’s plans for the company’s first Canadian flagship shop, a spacious multi-story retail outlet to be located in the heart of Montreal.
According to AppleInsider sources, the company has secured over 9,300 square feet of space along the 1300 block of Rue Ste-Catherine Ouest, where it is planning to heavily alter, but not raze, an existing structure.
Apple’s initial plans for the site would see the ground floor raised and existing column structures on the property relocated. The building would also receive a stainless steel facade and a new roof. On the inside, Apple plans for the two stories of retail space to be joined by what has become a trademark glass staircase that can also be found in other flagship stores.

While Apple currently operates four retail locations in Canada, none of these are flagship locations. This new Montreal store would join the existing nine high-profile stores for Apple, which are spread all over the U.S., U.K. and Japan.
While the Montreal store might be subject to delays for any number of reasons, it would seem that Apple intends to begin operating out of it the summer or early fall of next year, according to AppleInsider sources.

Apple’s stores continue to be a huge part of Apple’s strategy, while also being one of the greatest success stories in retail history.

[Jacques]

thanks for the INFO about the next Apple flagship soon to be in Vancouver, by the article posted it will be very interesting to see what come to Vancouver in looks and design

[thefly]

From what I have heard there will not be any "flagship" stores in Vancouver at the moment. In addition to Pacific Centre there will be one in West Van and then a third to go in Metrotown.

[johnjimbc]

where there were 6 stores in the metro area (you read that correctly, SIX - with an additional 2 in cities less than an hour away), NONE were considered "flagship" stores.

Even so, some of them did have a bit more prominence than others. But all of them were very nice, complete service stores.

The only flagship store I've seen is the one in front of Trump Tower. Wow, impressive at street level! But, you know what, the store itself really was not that incredible. Bigger, but very crowded. The mall stores in DC had all the same elements, with easier access to staff and product. In NYC, I preferred the Soho store, which was damned impressive too with a great corner location.

Point being, I'll take 3 "regular" stores in the Vancouver metro area ANYDAY! I miss my Applestore fix ; ). I hope that info is accurate.

[thefly]

I hope that info is accurate.

It is. I understand that a location is yet to be picked out for West Van but should be done shortly.

[officedweller]

It is. I understand that a location is yet to be picked out for West Van but should be done shortly.

I guess that'll restricted to "North Mall or South Mall"?

[johnjimbc]

I vaguely talked about the Apple stores in the DC area being in malls before, but I should have been more clear. About half of the stores there were physically in traditional malls. The others (which tended to be larger and a bit more stylish) were in outdoor shopping areas or planned community districts. In DC, they tended to call these areas "town centers" - some of them being all new developments while others being revitalized and expanded shopping districts with new apartments and housing overlaying the original town strips built decades ago.

I am still learning names of places here, but in West Van there is that outdoor mall area (where the Homesense and Home Depot are). Is that still part of Park Royal Mall? I could see an Apple Store being placed in a nice storefront in the outdoor area there over one in the indoor mall. For that matter, I could them even go for one in the heart of Marine Drive (is that the correct street name?), though not as likely. Sorry I'm still learning names here.

At any rate, my point is they might not be in physical traditional malls. I used that term a bit too generically. It seems they go for newer shopping districts or street store fronts whenever they can.

[officedweller]

It's called The Village at Park Royal - part of the south mall area of Park Royal - I think it is fully leased. I don't think that either Ambleside or Dundarave have the cache that the malls do in West Van. Plus building anything new in those districts would be painfully time consuming wrt permits.

[Rusty Gull]

I think johnjimbc is onto something, though. If Apple is looking for premium retail location in West Vancouver (and Apple always does historically), then they'd be gunning for The Village At Park Royal.

And just because it's fully leased now doesn't mean something won't come up. Look at the Steamworks restaurant on the site, which has recently been taken over by the Cactus Club group.

At any rate, I'm glad to hear that Apple will also be setting up shop in the North Shore and Burnaby in addition to their downtown store. It sounds like a smart strategy.

On another note, it would be nice to have a flagship store. My (limited) experience at a flagship store, in Osaka, Japan, was that it was very impressive indeed. On the other hand, my visit to a regular Apple store in the Eaton Centre in Toronto was rather underwhelming.

[towerguy3]

Have you guys seen the Apple store in New York City?! It's 2 floors under street level across from the General Motors building and kitty corner to Central Park on 59th; open 24 hours

[SpongeG]

I guess that'll restricted to "North Mall or South Mall"?

there were some empty spaces in the village extemnsion last time i was there a couple months ago - it could end up out there

[deasine]

I don't think are any empty spaces left... but I'm sure they will find room for Apple =)

The village area would be a perfect spot for the apple store too, it reminds me of the Apple in Alderwood Mall (states) where it is outside too =)

[SpongeG]

the one at university village is nice

all the apple stores in Portland are inside of malls

[bugsy]

I know Apple has Employee Purchase Program (http://www.apple.com/r/store/government/epp.html) pricing for federal, state, and local government employees in the US, but do we get that here in Canada? I only see educational discounts.

[dreambrother808]

The temporary barrier outside of the Pacific Centre site (on the side within the mall) is now painted the traditional "Apple-Store-in-progress" black, as well there is a small 2"x2" apple logo on the grey metal plate between the two doors. There is about a 1/4" worth of view between the two doors and I was able to glimpse what amounts to a base site that has been recently turned over to the clients, meaning the outer walls are drywalled but other than that there is nothing completed yet, no inner framing, no ceiling work, no floor work, etc. I'm excited to hear that there may be street access, which perhaps means we will have more than just an average mall location.

[marmorek]

http://images.apple.com/ca/retail/images/titles/title_pacificcentre.gif
http://images.apple.com/ca/retail/images/photo_pacificcentre.jpg

701 West Georgia Street
Vancouver, British Columbia V7Y 1G5
(778) 373-1800

Link (http://www.apple.com/ca/retail/pacificcentre/)

[deasine]

I'm so excited =D

[Yume-sama]

Ehh, I will have to check it out. I get back from Tokyo tomorrow. Having visited both the Apple store in NYC and Ginza... it may be slightly underwhelming :P

[deasine]

See Grand Opening pictures captured by me: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3572787#post3572787

[SpongeG]

Apple Store Opens in Vancouver BC, Canada (1st Update)

Vancouver’s Pacific Centre store is the fifth Apple store to be opened in Canada, and the first one in Vancouver. With a location in the heart of downtown’s upscale business and shopping area, it is set to attract all kinds of customers.

This morning, around 09:00 am, a large crowd of people waited in front of the Pacific Shopping Centre at 701 West Georgia Street. As anticipated, Palluxo! was there to cover this exciting grand opening event.

When we entered the mall around 9:45 am, there were between 2,500 and 3,000 people waiting for the grand opening of the Apple Store, one line stretching from the Pacific Centre’s main entrance on West Georgia Street all the way up to the Granville Street entrance, and another inside the Pacific Centre with the head of the line by HMW’s Granville entrance.

At 09:55 am sharp, the Apple Store’s lights went out and the crowd began to buzz with excitement. At 10:00 am on the dot, the Apple Store opened its doors for the grand launch with staff on hand ready to greet the waiting Apple fans and welcome them into the store.

No wonder Apple came to Vancouver considering that 2010 Olympic Games are just around the corner! According to a report by Bernstein Research analyst Toni Sacconaghi, Apple stores are doing remarkably well with annual sales of $4,032 US per square foot (compared to Best Buy’s $930 US and Tiffany & Co.’s $2,666 US).

Security guards managed the crowd carefully, letting in groups of about 100 people at a time while the rest waited their turn outside.

Apple Store employees were handing out free gifts to people as they entered the store and at first many of the people standing in line thought Apple was giving away free iPods.

Since most Apple fans already have an iPod, they were happy to get their hands on something they didn’t already own - an Apple Store Pacific Centre T-Shirt! Apple gave away 1,000 of the free “Designed by Apple in California” T-Shirts.

We filmed the event inside of the main mall entrance from 9:55 am until 10:20 am (video will be available shortly). Then we went outside of the entrance and waited 1 hour in a line up to enter the store. At that time, there were still people waiting behind us. As we were entering the store, they run out of T-shirts, but they managed to bring some more. As we were leaving the event around 11:40 am, there were still people coming in.

One month ago (old photos), the store’s premises at 701 West Georgia Street were still undergoing extensive renovation work. As you may recall in April we were told by two contractors, speaking on condition of anonymity, that the Vancouver Apple Store was due to officially open on August 19th. They commented at the time that the date was subject to change depending on the progress of the Pacific Centre Mall refurbishment.

Apple has clearly stepped up the pace of the renovations and completed ahead of schedule, quite probably in order to prepare the sales floor for the new products due to be unveiled at Apple’s Worldwide Developer Conference in June. Apple has four other stores in Canada. Three stores are located in Toronto, Ontario (Eaton Centre, Sherway Gardens, Yorkdale) and one in Laval, Quebec (Carrefoul Laval).

In 2nd, we will provide video coverage. Stay tuned!

http://www.palluxo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/grand-opening-of-apple-store-in-vancouver-1.jpg

more pics at the source: link me (http://www.palluxo.com/2008/05/24/apple-store-opens-in-vancouver-bc-canada-1st-update/grand-opening-of-apple-store-in-vancouver-1/)

[NewfBC]

Apple Store Opens in Vancouver BC, Canada (1st Update)

We filmed the event inside of the main mall entrance from 9:55 am until 10:20 am (video will be available shortly). Then we went outside of the entrance and waited 1 hour in a line up to enter the store. At that time, there were still people waiting behind us. As we were entering the store, they run out of T-shirts, but they managed to bring some more. As we were leaving the event around 11:40 am, there were still people coming in.


Apple fanboys still use film? :)

This sounds like it was written by a 12y/o..

Ron.

[marmorek]

When we entered the mall around 9:45 am, there were between 2,500 and 3,000 people waiting for the grand opening of the Apple Store

No way.

I arrived at 10:10, didn't get into the store until 10:40, but I still got one of the 1000 T-shirts. By the time I left, they were gone.

[Yume-sama]

No way.

I arrived at 10:10, didn't get into the store until 10:40, but I still got one of the 1000 T-shirts. By the time I left, they were gone.

Apple fanboys need to overstate to help make themselves feel more secure with their purchase :P

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/39-apple-products/

[Nutterbug]

Young people being trend whores? No way!

[David]

When we entered the mall around 9:45 am, there were between 2,500 and 3,000 people waiting for the grand opening of the Apple Store, one line stretching from the Pacific Centre’s main entrance on West Georgia Street all the way up to the Granville Street entrance, and another inside the Pacific Centre with the head of the line by HMW’s Granville entrance

What is HMW?

[tintinium]

What is HMW?

You seriously don't know where this is? Sheesh, it's right next door to RV & Co.

[Nutterbug]

You seriously don't know where this is? Sheesh, it's right next door to RV & Co.

Are you sure that's not BMW? ;)

[SpongeG]

lol i think he meant H&M

it was full of errors but couldn't find much "news" about the opening on google other than that

[NewfBC]

You seriously don't know where this is? Sheesh, it's right next door to RV & Co.

I was there today... I saw no HMW! :)

Ron.

[David]

When I first read it I thought it said HMV and I definitely didn't think it would be lined up all the way down to Robson & Burrard :p

[Yume-sama]

Well, checked it out today. Pretty impressive! They have a great stock of all their items, not really busy now... but there was still a couple of dozen employees and customers. Ended up picking up a Nano and the new 3.06GHZ iMac.

[deasine]

They'll look perfect in your new condo *winks*

[Yume-sama]

Yes, I have never been complimented so many times on my computer as I walked back. It was a very nerdy high...

Also got a lot of "There's an APPLE STORE.... in VANCOUVER?" :P

[marmorek]

When I first read it I thought it said HMV and I definitely didn't think it would be lined up all the way down to Robson & Burrard :p

That would be insane.

[amac]

The Apple store space is disappointing, it's a dreary grey box. No street entrance, no natural light, no glass staircase. Definitely not up to the standards of the some of the American stores I've been to. I guess my expectations were a bit too high. Oh well, I'm still glad we finally have one.

[SpongeG]

its in a mall - not much could be expected

[Pinion]

its in a mall - not much could be expected

That part of the mall is above ground and could've had an exterior entrance on Granville I believe. That's what I thought they were renovating the exterior for...? That whole block is turning into a second Robson.

Also, Pacific Centre's stores for the most part are much nicer than your average mall's. I agree it was underwhelming.

[Yume-sama]

Well, I don't know why people would expect anything grand. It suits its purpose, and isn't a landmark building like in NYC, or anything major like in Ginza, Tokyo.

[SpongeG]

That part of the mall is above ground and could've had an exterior entrance on Granville I believe. That's what I thought they were renovating the exterior for...? That whole block is turning into a second Robson.

Also, Pacific Centre's stores for the most part are much nicer than your average mall's. I agree it was underwhelming.

it was never meant to be more than a typical apple store

it was never possible to put an outside entrance there - unless it involved stairs - even the H&M has a staircase to get into the store from the street level

one of these days i will go and take a picture of where the apple store would be inside and show how high it is from the street :yes:

the only flagship Canada will have is set for Montreal

the rest are run of the mill stores

the ones in seattle are noting spectacular

the only really nice one i have been to is a flagship in san francisco

the other ones in san francisco area that i have been to are no better or worse than what we have in pac centre

[amac]

it was never meant to be more than a typical apple store

it was never possible to put an outside entrance there - unless it involved stairs - even the H&M has a staircase to get into the store from the street level

one of these days i will go and take a picture of where the apple store would be inside and show how high it is from the street :yes:

the only flagship Canada will have is set for Montreal

the rest are run of the mill stores

the ones in seattle are noting spectacular

the only really nice one i have been to is a flagship in san francisco

the other ones in san francisco area that i have been to are no better or worse than what we have in pac centre

I've only been to the flagship stores, I thought they were the norm. I stand corrected – 8 times over to be exact! Sheesh.

[Rusty Gull]

What about the rumours last year that Apple was looking to set up in Jameson House? If there's an opportunity for a flagship location, that would be it!

[SpongeG]

I've only been to the flagship stores, I thought they were the norm. I stand corrected – 8 times over to be exact! Sheesh.

lol

sorry not picking on anyone but i swear its like has anyone ever left their house? :haha:

[Hed Kandi]

What about the rumours last year that Apple was looking to set up in Jameson House? If there's an opportunity for a flagship location, that would be it!


That would have been a stellar location. I'm suprised by the lack of innovative foresight on Apple's part and their choice to open a retail location in Pacific Centre.


On the whole, I actually despise Pacific Centre and I would much prefer to have street front retail shopping not unlike Robson.

[johnjimbc]

In the Washington, DC, area there are 5 (actually I think there are 6 now with a new one opening in the past couple of months) apple stores. None of them are "flagship" stores. But among them, a few look like Pacific Centre's new location (rather basic). But two of them stand out. They are in nice tree-lined street-front locations with lots of natural light and large glass store-fronts. Those two stores are a bit larger as well. So it is possible to have a nice Apple store that is not a flagship but is still a bit more impressive. Unlike most people who have a mac, I don't go ga-ga over the idea of a flagship store. But I do like their stores and products.

I'm just surprised they didn't take advantage of the potential for a window overlooking Granville Street, but I guess it didn't fit their standard layout since that area is where supplies are kept in the store. But it still is a bit disappointing, thought about that when I walked up Granville the other day. I'm still hoping they'll open another location with a real store-front, perhaps the outdoor mall area of Port Royal (is that the correct name?) in West Vancouver. That retail area is similar to the ones in which they located the nicer stores in DC.

[deasine]

Close: Park Royal. And yes it would be perfect at the village area. We should throw one in Metro, Coquitlam Centre, Guildford, and Richmond Centre =)

[mr.x2]

I'm sure if demand warrants it, they could open a bigger streetfront store in downtown....give it 5-10 years, it'll happen. It's not like their new Pacific Centre store cost a fortune to build.

[SpongeG]

that little lifestyle mall in south surrey would be a great place too

[Rusty Gull]

How about the Kingsgate mall at Kingsway and Main? It looks to be gentrifying these days...

[marmorek]

I'm sure if demand warrants it, they could open a bigger streetfront store in downtown....give it 5-10 years, it'll happen. It's not like their new Pacific Centre store cost a fortune to build.

It's Apple ... you'd be surprised how much they spend on even their mall stores. Everything has to be perfect.

[Yume-sama]

Not relevant to the store... BUT... 3G iPhone coming to Canada on July 11th with Rogers. And if it's good enough to finally be released in Japan, it's probably good enough to buy one. Although I'm sure they'll have to add features to the Japanese phone to make it marketable... like a camera for starters since QR Codes are such a big deal there. I'm sure we will be THOROUGHLY ripped off compared to AT&T in America's $45 unlimited data, dialing, plan. Long live Rogers ;)
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/the-lucky-22-countries-receiving-iphone-3g-on-july-11th/

[sacrifice333]

The all-new, limited time offer from Rogers $4500 offering unlimited data, dialing, plan. Long live Rogers :haha:

[WarrenC12]

The new iPhone looks fantastic, what an upgrade to an already great device.

I'm fearing my imminent let down when Rogers announces their plans.

[jhausner]

A lot of money spent by a company that if Steve Jobs ever quits, will fall apart. Apple = Steve Jobs and without him, the company won't last long trust me.

[marmorek]

A lot of money spent by a company that if Steve Jobs ever quits, will fall apart. Apple = Steve Jobs and without him, the company won't last long trust me.

Jon Ive was rumoured to be his eventual successor, and he's brilliant. He's behind almost every major design in recent Apple history - original, flatscreen and G5/Intel iMac, iPod, MacBook, iPhone, etc. Definitely has the vision to keep it going. It's still lucky Steve has quite a few years left in him - he was lucky to survive his ordeal with pancreatic cancer.

[Overground]

I just talked to Rogers and they said that they don't have any information right now other than what you read on the internet and all they do know is it will be released on 11 July.

What they thought will probably happen is that the iPhone will sell for around the $399 price on a 3-year term but they have to still figure out a data package and the guess they said is that it will be the status quo to now with their pricing or around $100 a month.

What's incredible with these jokers is that the phone is going to retail for $199, yet they still want to rip us off by doubling the price and then charging us an inexcusable amount of money to access the interactive parts of the phone compared to everyone else in the western world.

[subdude]

Although I'm sure they'll have to add features to the Japanese phone to make it marketable... like a camera for starters since QR Codes are such a big deal there.

It's always had a camera...

[Yume-sama]

It's always had a camera...

Yeah, I was thinking of the iPod touch. :koko: They need a front camera, then :P

[tintinium]

For Video Calls? Yeah i suppose. I think it will bigger than you think in Japan, Yume.

[deasine]

Well unfortunately for us, our 3G network is HORRIBLE here (and in the states). Video calling won't be popular until at least another few years.

iPhone 3G announced. It's available in white or black for $199 8GB model or $299 for 16GB model via Rogers or Fido.

I'll pass on this one though: no major improvements to iPhone other than AGPS. I'll wait for NTT DoCoMo's fall/winter lineup of the 907i series =P or Sony Ericsson's announcement at CommunicAsia next monday.

[Yume-sama]

I have no doubt people in Japan will buy it because it is fashionable. Heck, they even make a Louis Vuitton iPhone Holder, and the Japanese will buy anything they can associate with Louis Vuitton.

[deasine]

I have no doubt people in Japan will buy it because it is fashionable. Heck, they even make a Louis Vuitton iPhone Holder, and the Japanese will buy anything they can associate with Louis Vuitton.

Back when their apple store opened years ago, holy cow it was like 3000 ppl lining up.

Thank god Softbank is carrying the iPhone. I want many ppl to switch over which will make DoCoMo will start improving their phones. I was so disappointed when the SH906i had such a sluggish user interface (touch section). Not mnay of the 906i phones were an imporvement compared to the 905i phones sigh...

Back to business here... =P

[Stanzmastertron3000]

It's Apple ... you'd be surprised how much they spend on even their mall stores. Everything has to be perfect.

Minus the products, of course.

[marmorek]

The real issue is that the Canadian iPhone has a listed minimum operating temperature of 0ºC. That excludes most of the Canadian demographic during winter, except for Vancouver.

I live in Vancouver. :)

[subdude]

Minus the products, of course.

You're hilarious.

[jhausner]

Jon Ive was rumoured to be his eventual successor, and he's brilliant. He's behind almost every major design in recent Apple history - original, flatscreen and G5/Intel iMac, iPod, MacBook, iPhone, etc. Definitely has the vision to keep it going. It's still lucky Steve has quite a few years left in him - he was lucky to survive his ordeal with pancreatic cancel.

Here's hoping because without Steve they would lose their marketting guru and marketting > technology unfortunately.

[jhausner]

You're hilarious.

And accurate. I work with Macs every day and they crash just as often as Windows boxes unlike what the commercials all claim. That is if you use them for real work rather than a simple repository for photos and mp3 files and a fill-up station for your iPod.

That said, they do know how to market which is what's popped them back up though I have a strong feeling they will be getting slapped around due to anti-trust issues in the next 5 years or so. They're as bad as Microsoft was in that dept.

[tintinium]

I have no doubt people in Japan will buy it because it is fashionable. Heck, they even make a Louis Vuitton iPhone Holder, and the Japanese will buy anything they can associate with Louis Vuitton.

Only if it's endorsed by a j-dorama Celebrity.

Yume, are from Japan or 2nd/3rd generation?

[marmorek]

And accurate. I work with Macs every day and they crash just as often as Windows boxes unlike what the commercials all claim. That is if you use them for real work rather than a simple repository for photos and mp3 files and a fill-up station for your iPod.

I'd say you're probably in the minority there. I do audio, video and photo editing on my mac but my dad uses his work PC only for MS Office and it crashes way more often. The lack of viruses and spyware alone is a huge benefit, not to mention the stability of the OS itself.

When I decided to install Windows XP on my mac for NHL 08, I had to restart it way more during the installation and setup process alone than I did for its entire 8 months of ownership before that. On the rare occasion that I've had a problem, I've never lost a significant amount of work from it.


That said, they do know how to market which is what's popped them back up though I have a strong feeling they will be getting slapped around due to anti-trust issues in the next 5 years or so. They're as bad as Microsoft was in that dept.

As bad as Microsoft? I doubt that. Microsoft's issues had a lot to do with IE. Apple's browser isn't an essential core part of the operating system, you can remove it whenever you want. As for DRM, that's basically the fault of the record companies, with some labels having MP3 tracks already. Not to mention that their DRM is cross-platform, unlike a certain other company we know.

[deasine]

I never ever had my mac crash before. Honestly.

[Rusty Gull]

^Mine crash constantly. Especially since the latest Leopard update.

[zivan56]

I'd say you're probably in the minority there. I do audio, video and photo editing on my mac but my dad uses his work PC only for MS Office and it crashes way more often. The lack of viruses and spyware alone is a huge benefit, not to mention the stability of the OS itself.
.

Not sure about him, but I do tech support for a major University from time to time and I can tell you OSX is one of the most unstable variants of *nix...and is only a bit less buggy than Windows (for a base install with no spyware and whatnot). Apple's patchwork of a kernel is a joke unless it runs on custom made hardware, which it thankfully does. Most Windows crashes are driver related. Since Microsoft doesn't write drivers except for very low level things (like ATA controllers, SVGA driver), it's not up to them to fix the problem (nor can they fix it). On the hand, Apple writes and only support a single platform of their choice. If you run OSX on a custom made PC, you will experience tons of crashes and other issues which are driver related.
OSX is not immune to viruses and spyware, as the same social engineering methods can be used for both Mac and Windows users to coerce them to give super user privileges to a rouge app. You can actually install spyware on a Mac with a simple drag and drop, but most spyware virus writers focus on the platform that 95% of people use (Windows).
Speaking of programming, don't get me started on Apples frameworks and their insistance on forcing you to use Object-C :yuck:

When I decided to install Windows XP on my mac for NHL 08, I had to restart it way more during the installation and setup process alone than I did for its entire 8 months of ownership before that. On the rare occasion that I've had a problem, I've never lost a significant amount of work from it.


Again, OSX has NO hardware detection. It simply transfers an OS image to the drive...as it knowns which model computer you have and which drivers it needs to load. Windows, on the other hand, has to support hundreds of different drivers in order to simply get a GUI up. It has to detect all this hardware in a way that is safe for almost every hardware out there. For example, there are some buses used in certain computers that can fry hardware if it is probed for devices. Apple has none of these issues...as they build their computers from the ground up.


As bad as Microsoft? I doubt that. Microsoft's issues had a lot to do with IE. Apple's browser isn't an essential core part of the operating system, you can remove it whenever you want. As for DRM, that's basically the fault of the record companies, with some labels having MP3 tracks already. Not to mention that their DRM is cross-platform, unlike a certain other company we know.

The IE browser engine is not a core part of Windows...it can be removed and still have Windows operate properly. However, you would lose some features of Explorer in older versions of Windows (98/ME)

Not trying to bash Apple, but comparing an OS meant for at least 3 architectures (NT 4.0 supported 2 more!) and hundreds of chipsets and hardware combinations is a great feat. That being said, their approach to jamming everything they possibly could in Vista is quite horrible. The base OS kernel in Windows is excellent, but the junk that comes with it just bogs it down. If you have ever run a server version of Windows, you would see it is rock solid...and used by hundreds of thousands of companies throughout the world. Apple does a great job with the GUI, but it has actually been getting less and less stable with recent OSX editions.
For the record, I run Linux...but I am not biased towards a particular platform.

[marmorek]

Apple designed OS X to run on Apple hardware only. The reason why Apple does this is that it avoids all those driver issues you mentioned, and clearly that strategy has been successful. You can hardly criticize it's stability on other systems when users are modifying it without official support to run. It was Microsoft's decision to license their OS extensively, and its stability suffers from that. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of choice in hardware to have a more stable OS.

The base OS kernel in Windows is excellent, but the junk that comes with it just bogs it down.

Who pre-installs that junk? Exactly. A stable kernel isn't a great help if the OS on top of it is filled with bugs. I'm not saying OSX is bug free, but almost everyone I know that have used both have said that it is more stable.

[g35]

I never ever had my mac crash before. Honestly.

You know what's crazy? I've never had XP crash on me, either. :)

[marmorek]

You know what's crazy? I've never had XP crash on me, either. :)

That's great, but I find that computers aren't very useful when you don't turn them on. :haha:

[tintinium]

problem with my most recent mac (and ones before it) is that it never TELLS me what's wrong. There's no way to diagnose problems. The computer just freezes or "Beachballs" (It's like a windows hourglass, but it's completely modal many times and you can't do ANYTHING about it)

To those that say Macs crash as much as PCs though, you are mistaken. Macs crash more often. My iMac and the PowerPC i had before it has required a Hard reboot far more often than my Thinkpad. The difference is... to a Mac user, when the system hangs for 10 minutes, they don't consider that a crash... they only consider a "Blue screen" a crash. I can't remember the last time I saw a blue screen on a PC. Of course, I don't use cheap PCs, so perhaps that's half the problem. Compare quality to quality, I say.

I use a Mac @ home because they're simple to use for my wife, they look great (more like furniture) and they have a cool set of apps for managing photos.

They have their faults... but their biggest failing, in my opinion are the legions of froth-at-the-mouth myopic mactards that worship Steve Jobs and have no idea what the meaning of "objective" is... except that it's the only sanctioned language they can use on the platform.

A lot of Mac is "Convention over Configuration" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just less flexible.

Macs are great at doing what they can do...

[quobobo]

problem with my most recent mac (and ones before it) is that it never TELLS me what's wrong. There's no way to diagnose problems. The computer just freezes or "Beachballs" (It's like a windows hourglass, but it's completely modal many times and you can't do ANYTHING about it)

If this happens a lot, my guess here is paging - I went from 768MB of RAM to 1.5GB and it solved nearly all my beachballing problems. Use Activity Monitor or top (Console if the app/machine actually crashes) and you should usually be able to figure out what your problem is.


They have their faults... but their biggest failing, in my opinion are the legions of froth-at-the-mouth myopic mactards that worship Steve Jobs and have no idea what the meaning of "objective" is... except that it's the only sanctioned language they can use on the platform.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

(aside from the last bit, use whatever language you want even if Objective-C/Cocoa is Apple's darling)

[tintinium]

Thanks for the tips. I've been wanting to increase the Ram for a while... though it does have 2GB... I know OSX is hungry for RAM. Overall, I'm really happy with my Macs, but I will say that I really wish there was more acknowledgment when things go wrong... Difficult to diagnose and a great way to learn about computers. Windows tends to pop up an error message... but for Macs, it's unfortunately a side-effect of the "It just works."
"It just doesn't work" applied too.

Plug in an unsupported Peripheral and it just won't work... no feedback, no message saying what's wrong. Windows will say, "Sorry, please try again" or "Yes, this works and is set up" Different philosophies. The Mac uses sound more for feedback. Nice and unobtrusive, but not when there's a problem.

Although the messages can be annoying on Windows, there's something to be said for feedback.

It's also more of a Mac thing. I've always thought of a Mac like the newer cars. You're not meant to work on them, that's why they cover the engine in a plastic cowl. Unless you know what you're doing, don't fix it. Generally, however, you can just leave them alone and they will run well.

However, have a problem, and you better call an expert.

Not really good for people who like to diagnose and fix their own problems unless they're fluent in Unix.

Yeah, I know you can use other languages, but it's definitely the course of least resistance to use Apple's darling.

Actually I've been impressed with Microsoft's latest run on the languages. They're developing a LOT of new languages and building support for a Lot of existing ones like Python, Ruby, etc. They're also incorporating a LOT more community feedback.

quobobo... are you a Mac Developer?

[dreambrother808]

people seem to have a lot of varying experiences on the mac/pc debate. mine is pro-mac, but whatever. each person will trust that their own version is the truth and make their next purchase accordingly. no one ever wins these arguments.

[quobobo]

Thanks for the tips. I've been wanting to increase the Ram for a while... though it does have 2GB... I know OSX is hungry for RAM. Overall, I'm really happy with my Macs, but I will say that I really wish there was more acknowledgment when things go wrong... Difficult to diagnose and a great way to learn about computers. Windows tends to pop up an error message... but for Macs, it's unfortunately a side-effect of the "It just works."
"It just doesn't work" applied too.

2GB? Hm, probably not paging... although it still could be memory leaks, Safari gets really slow when its memory use balloons, regardless of whether there's enough system memory. Anyway, for beachballs my first resort is always Activity Monitor and then maybe Console. If you're beachballing, something is wrong, and that should point you in the right direction.


Plug in an unsupported Peripheral and it just won't work... no feedback, no message saying what's wrong. Windows will say, "Sorry, please try again" or "Yes, this works and is set up" Different philosophies. The Mac uses sound more for feedback. Nice and unobtrusive, but not when there's a problem.

Agreed, peripheral support can be spotty - Windows "helps out" a lot more. Time to get in the habit of ALWAYS checking Google or the Apple Discussions before buying peripherals :D



It's also more of a Mac thing. I've always thought of a Mac like the newer cars. You're not meant to work on them, that's why they cover the engine in a plastic cowl. Unless you know what you're doing, don't fix it. Generally, however, you can just leave them alone and they will run well.

However, have a problem, and you better call an expert.

Not really good for people who like to diagnose and fix their own problems unless they're fluent in Unix.

Agreed, although I'd say it's mostly just getting used to the system in general - you don't need to dip into the unix layer for much (although some general knowledge will definitely go a long way). You're completely right though, my family is hopeless with any troubleshooting and although things generally don't go awry they'd probably be better off with XP or Vista when they do. I kind of dread the troubleshooting required every now and then when I visit.



Yeah, I know you can use other languages, but it's definitely the course of least resistance to use Apple's darling.

Actually I've been impressed with Microsoft's latest run on the languages. They're developing a LOT of new languages and building support for a Lot of existing ones like Python, Ruby, etc. They're also incorporating a LOT more community feedback.

quobobo... are you a Mac Developer?

Nah, just a CS student who likes to play with things outside of classes. I agree, Apple's focus on ObjC is kind of annoying - I'm mostly okay with it since I'm relatively fresh but I imagine seasoned C++ developers would find it maddening. An "easier" way to develop like .Net would be nice too.

[marmorek]

Plug in an unsupported Peripheral and it just won't work... no feedback, no message saying what's wrong. Windows will say, "Sorry, please try again" or "Yes, this works and is set up" Different philosophies. The Mac uses sound more for feedback. Nice and unobtrusive, but not when there's a problem.

Although that's true, I've found that almost everything I've plugged into my mac has worked right out of the box. Internet, network, printer, hard drive, camera, camcorder, etc. The only exception I can think of is my Yamaha synth, but MIDI is a bit more complicated than most interfaces.

[northwest2k]

My cousin works there :D

[sacrifice333]

Rogers to roll out new data plans ahead of iPhone
Mobile Broadband; Prices will reflect changing world, Mohamed says

David George-Cosh , Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, June 18, 2008

Changes in Rogers Communications Inc.'s cellphone plans are coming within the next two weeks as the company gears up to release a slew of new data-heavy mobile devices.

Rogers president and chief operating officer Nadir Mohamed made the remarks during his keynote address at the Canadian Telecom Summit yesterday morning in Toronto and highlighted the emergence of widespread usage of broadband Internet access in the wireless world.

"There's a recognition on the part of Rogers that the world has changed," Mr. Mohamed said. "We'll be changing our prices to reflect that."

Although Mr. Mohamed did not provide any specifics as to what the new pricing rates will be, he indicated the path it will take will mirror how rates in voice-specific plans have fallen.

"We're looking at pricing changes that will be more flexible, easy to understand and most importantly, drive the adoption of mobile broadband."

It is widely believed that Rogers will introduce new rates to coincide with the launch of two highly anticipated "3G" smartphone devices -- Apple Inc.'s iPhone and Research In Motion Ltd.'s Black-Berry Bold. Mr. Mohamed hinted at changes to the company's wireless pricing structure at Rogers' annual general meeting this past April.

Rogers currently earns about $63 in average revenue per user (ARPU), a figure that has risen rapidly over the past few years with the increasing usage of data-heavy services such as text messaging and over-the-air music downloads.

With the introduction of the 3G iPhone and its application store on July 11,Mr. Mohamed estimated the device will bring about $90 in blended ARPU to the company, a reflection of how important wireless broadband adoption will be to the bottom lines of telecom providers.

Mr. Mohamed outlined three main areas that are helping to drive wireless broadband adoption to Rogers customers. Aside from new devices and applications, the company is investing billions into its next-generation infrastructure in select markets which will provide speeds up to 7.2 megabits per second, double its current capacity.

"We're on a technology path that is delivering more and more to the customer," he remarked.

Mr. Mohamed declined to comment on the current Industry Canada wireless spectrum auction, which has set aside about 40% of the national airwaves for new entrants to encourage greater competition.


© National Post 2008

Could Canada's Data Rates fall closer in line with the rest of the world?! :shrug:

[WarrenC12]

Could Canada's Data Rates fall closer in line with the rest of the world?! :shrug:

The rumour I've heard for the iPhone is $30/month for unlimited data, that's a big step up from where we are now. My fingers are crossed... :notacrook:

[tintinium]

2GB? Hm, probably not paging... although it still could be memory leaks, Safari gets really slow when its memory use balloons, regardless of whether there's enough system memory. Anyway, for beachballs my first resort is always Activity Monitor and then maybe Console. If you're beachballing, something is wrong, and that should point you in the right direction.

Thanks for the tips quo.

As for peripherals, I've found if you stick to names, you're fine. Many of the ones that don't work as well are those gadgety no-name ones.

The only one that didn't work for me was a combination "dock" SD Card reader I bought. The Dock worked, but the USB connection to the SD card reader on the dock didn't recognize anything.

The thing is that nothing tells you it doesn't recognize it just ignores it. Overall, though, I don't have too many problems... Oh... yeah, iSync support for some phones is spotty and there's no recourse except wait for Apple...

In fact, my Sony Ericcson USED to work and be able to be mounted on the desktop but the new iMac with 10.4.11 didn't allow me to mount the phone. frustrating!

Also, after an upgrade to Quicktime, subtitles stopped working in FrontRow. I found perian, which is AWESOME, but there was no indication that there was anything wrong. I began to understand why people always searched message boards to see what the latest thing that breaks is.

What would be REALLY useful is if I could get into a log of errors. I'm sure these things are stored for future diagnostics, but I've never found the time to look for them.

Hey quo, you do any Ruby Development? That's something that I want to delve into one of these days.

[tintinium]

The rumour I've heard for the iPhone is $30/month for unlimited data, that's a big step up from where we are now. My fingers are crossed... :notacrook:

Yep: http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/17610/

[sacrifice333]

That would be nice... :banana:

[tintinium]

That would be nice... :banana:

That's an additional $30, btw. You still have to have a voice plan. I doubt it includes text messages, either, even though sms costs the carriers almost nothing.

In case anyone is wondering: SMS was discovered by Nokia. Every phone maintains an always-on lightweight network connection between itself and the local tower... it is essentially always "listening" for an incoming signal (so it can ring).

Nokia decided that they'd simply send a text signal instead of just data. The limit for this signal is 160 Bytes or something... which is why SMS is limited to about 148 characters (plus your number is sent)

SMS is also extremely profitable and is calculated to be the most expensive bandwidth on the planet. After, it's just a bit of extra chatter between an already open connection between your phone and the tower. No additional infrastructure is necessary and most of the cost to the carrier is probably just in tracking its usage so they can bill you for it.

It's no wonder that Free Text Message plans are the past ones they want to give up if you threaten to cancel.

[sacrifice333]

That's an additional $30, btw. You still have to have a voice plan. I doubt it includes text messages, either, even though sms costs the carriers almost nothing.

In case anyone is wondering: SMS was discovered by Nokia. Every phone maintains an always-on lightweight network connection between itself and the local tower... it is essentially always "listening" for an incoming signal (so it can ring).

Nokia decided that they'd simply send a text signal instead of just data. The limit for this signal is 160 Bytes or something... which is why SMS is limited to about 148 characters (plus your number is sent)

SMS is also extremely profitable and is calculated to be the most expensive bandwidth on the planet. After, it's just a bit of extra chatter between an already open connection between your phone and the tower. No additional infrastructure is necessary and most of the cost to the carrier is probably just in tracking its usage so they can bill you for it.

It's no wonder that Free Text Message plans are the past ones they want to give up if you threaten to cancel.

Yeah... I know it's in addition to voice.

Have you seen the current data plans?!

Nothing close to $30 for unlimited data. There is NO UNLIMITED PLAN.

[Of course they'll have some footnote that ultimately limits it, but for the normal 'heavy' user it should be sufficient.]

And no, that's not going to include text messages you'll have to pay extra for those.

[cc85]

psssst, its not a current plan, its a future 2 week plan that has the $30 unlimited (w. a cap)

[Yume-sama]

It is ridiculous that they charge so much for text messages. In Japan, it is unlimited text messages (up to 9000 characters) and internet webpage viewing (for a standard small-ish fee) and talking is what costs money, which is why you RARELY see people actually talking on their phones... they just do everything else with them. Canada has pretty poor providers, a byproduct of the lack of competition that America, Europe and other places have.

[Overground]

Need some advice if someone could help.

I'm going to get a new Rogers account and I need a new phone from them. Considering that the iPhone is coming out on the 11th I was wondering if it's worth getting. My other option is getting the Sony K850i. Both are $199 on a 3 year plan. I really only need the phone for normal usage, mp3, and a half decent camera. I don't care about emailing or the internet. One of the differences I can see is the Sony has a 5mp camera that records video where the iPhone doesn't - it has a 2mp and still shots only.

I don't know a hell of a lot about phones and I'd love to get something from Japan or elsewhere but I wouldn't have the foggiest on how to do that. That's why I'd rather just make life easy and get one from Rogers and the iPhone or the Sony seem the best choices. Any ideas?

[Yume-sama]

Well, if you don't care about ease of use as far as dialing and text messaging, and surfing the net (compared to say, a blackberry), and want to look stylish and be able to play both video and music... I would go with the iPhone. If not, well, you're probably better off with the Sony if you are just a basic "talk on the phone" kind of guy, who would like to take nicer photos and some videos.

[deasine]

Need some advice if someone could help.

I'm going to get a new Rogers account and I need a new phone from them. Considering that the iPhone is coming out on the 11th I was wondering if it's worth getting. My other option is getting the Sony K850i. Both are $199 on a 3 year plan. I really only need the phone for normal usage, mp3, and a half decent camera. I don't care about emailing or the internet. One of the differences I can see is the Sony has a 5mp camera that records video where the iPhone doesn't - it has a 2mp and still shots only.

I don't know a hell of a lot about phones and I'd love to get something from Japan or elsewhere but I wouldn't have the foggiest on how to do that. That's why I'd rather just make life easy and get one from Rogers and the iPhone or the Sony seem the best choices. Any ideas?

Just because I am a bum and a cell phone freak: I'm going to correct you: it's Sony Ericsson, not Sony.

Since you aren't planning to do any web browsing or any GPS, then I think the K850i would be your better choice. But keep in mind, the problem I find with the K850i is that there is a steep learning curve to the phone.

1) You have "touch softkeys", not actual buttons [not too hard to get used to though]
2) Instead of a fiveway navigation, you only have four way. So when you confirm your choices, you must press the centre touch softkey, unlike where you press the centre button on the keypad. Many people say it's the biggest problem with the K850i, but after they got used to it, they really like it...
3) If you are a past Sony Ericsson user, u have to get used to the call/end keys [not a problem at all though]
4) Different buttons, but again once u get used to it, you'll be typing amazingly fast

The K850i has a "media gallery" which is pretty nice. You get your walkman music player [.mp3, iTunes music, etc] and it looks beautiful. Below image is the picture section of the gallery (yes there is a music). Notice the user interface is similar to the PSP XMB.

http://i.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/se-w910/sshots/gsmarena_s046.jpg

Check GSM Arena's review of the phone:
http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_k850-review-165p4.php

If you do choose to get this phone, MAKE SURE U DO FIRMWARE UPDATES. There's been many problems where the camera cover does not automatically close or open and there LED around the camera turns on randomly.

We might have Rogers lower the price of this phone when the iPhone comes. If camera is important for you, the K850i would be a better choice.

~~~~~~~

Then, if you want to wait till Q4 2008 and get your phone overseas for about $700 CDN no contract, go get the Sony Ericsson C905: 8.1 megapixel camera with WiFi and GPS XD XD XD

http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/file/1.489586.1213455362/C905_see_the_product_large_2.png

[tintinium]

It is ridiculous that they charge so much for text messages. In Japan, it is unlimited text messages (up to 9000 characters) and internet webpage viewing (for a standard small-ish fee) and talking is what costs money, which is why you RARELY see people actually talking on their phones... they just do everything else with them. Canada has pretty poor providers, a byproduct of the lack of competition that America, Europe and other places have.

Don't even get me started on text messaging. The amounts that are charged for a 160 character message is revolting. considering it's 90% profit and costs almost nothing for the carriers to provide (SMS are sent on a signal that's already open with the carrier) SMS Text messages are the most expensive bandwidth on the planet.

[marmorek]

Don't even get me started on text messaging. The amounts that are charged for a 160 character message is revolting. considering it's 90% profit and costs almost nothing for the carriers to provide (SMS are sent on a signal that's already open with the carrier) SMS Text messages are the most expensive bandwidth on the planet.

It's actually cheaper per bit to communicate with the Hubble Telescope than it is to communicate by text messaging. :rolleyes:

[Overground]

Thank you deasine, you are a star!! Just the type of info I was looking for.

I was being lazy not typing Sony Ericsson, which is actually something I never do and can be quite compulsive about. Nevertheless, I used to own one of their phones and really enjoyed it. So hopefully it won't be too difficult to sort out. I think I will probably get it but wait until the iPhone is out. But damn, that C905 looks sweet!

[subdude]

So whaddya all think - Rogers/Fido iPhone plan? $30 data plus ___ for voice/etc. I'm hoping not much over 80 beans....

[deasine]

Thank you deasine, you are a star!! Just the type of info I was looking for.

I was being lazy not typing Sony Ericsson, which is actually something I never do and can be quite compulsive about. Nevertheless, I used to own one of their phones and really enjoyed it. So hopefully it won't be too difficult to sort out. I think I will probably get it but wait until the iPhone is out. But damn, that C905 looks sweet!

Yup. Good that your waiting 'till July. You could even try the iPhone out in the store (I hope the Apple store has it) but I'm sure you've tried it out, or at least the iPod touch. And if you have time, go jump in a few Roger stores and look at the K850i. Show lots of interest in it and ask to see if they have a real demo. You never know, maybe one of the staff members has one. The dummy phone and the real phone is very different.

In terms of build quality, both phones are pretty good. They feel very sturdy in your hand (well I've only tried the iPhone 3G).

[zivan56]

Why not just buy a regular non-branded K850i? Then you aren't locked into a contract...and don't have to worry about Rogers having their own firmware on the phone. If they indeed do have their own custom firmware on there, then you can't update the firmware on the phone unless you want to jump through hoops to get the regular firmware on there.

[WarrenC12]

So whaddya all think - Rogers/Fido iPhone plan? $30 data plus ___ for voice/etc. I'm hoping not much over 80 beans....

By my math I'll be paying an extra $25 on top of my current plan, new total would be $75/mth for the iPhone. Assuming I can use my FidoDollars to help offset the price of the handset, I think I'll get the 16gb.

Of course I'll wait to see the inevitable fine print that might change my mind.

[bugsy]

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080627/3G_iPhone1.jpg

If you think AT&T's iPhone 3G service plans are expensive, just consider what Rogers is forcing on our Canadian friends.

Friday, the carrier announced its service plans for the iPhone 3G, none of which include unlimited data use. Instead, Rogers will cap data each month at a certain amount, which will range from 400MB for the cheapest serve plan ($60 Canadian or $59.23 U.S.) to 2GB for the most expensive plan ($115 Canadian or $113.64 U.S.).

Though 2GB is a lot of data, we're not sure how a customer is supposed to know what 2GB even means in real-world use. True, you can track your data use on the iPhone, but it's not like tracking calling minutes.

In its press release, Rogers does provide a convenient chart to gauge your data usage--apparently, 2G amounts to 16,000 Web pages (who knew?)--but we don't approve of such an arrangement at all. The iPhone's Web browser is one of its top attractions, particularly on a 3G network, and asking users to limit their data certainly isn't putting the "Internet in your pocket." Rogers is offering unlimited Wi-Fi access at all Rogers and Fido hotspots, but that in itself is limiting if you have to be in one place.

What's more, the data restrictions aren't the half of it. While AT&T's cheapest iPhone 3G service plan ($69 per month) includes 450 anytime minutes, the cheapest Rogers plan (the one with 400MB of data) only gets 150 anytime minutes. Ouch. Similarly Rogers' most expensive plan includes only 800 anytime minutes while AT&T's priciest plan ($129 per month) includes unlimited anytime minutes. Double ouch.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9979657-1.html

[sacrifice333]

What's more, the data restrictions aren't the half of it. While AT&T's cheapest iPhone 3G service plan ($69 per month) includes 450 anytime minutes, the cheapest Rogers plan (the one with 400MB of data) only gets 150 anytime minutes. Ouch. Similarly Rogers' most expensive plan includes only 800 anytime minutes while AT&T's priciest plan ($129 per month) includes unlimited anytime minutes. Double ouch.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9979657-1.html

With blackberry's one can basically choose any voice plan and than just add on the data plan that best suites their needs to come up with a 'custom' plan. Is this the same for the iPhone or is Rogers trying to make you drop any current 'split' plan and get an iPhone all-in-one plan?!

[sacrifice333]

http://www.ruinediphone.com

[Yume-sama]

Unfortunately I will definitely NOT be buying the iPhone. I am not signing a 3 year contract, and I will not pay that much money for it.

I will go with the Blackberry Bold when it is released from Telus. It is more functional, anyways.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/05/5-16-08bold.jpg

[sacrifice333]

Unfortunately I will definitely NOT be buying the iPhone. I am not signing a 3 year contract, and I will not pay that much money for it.

I will go with the Blackberry Bold when it is released from Telus. It is more functional, anyways.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/05/5-16-08bold.jpg

Yeah, looks like Rogers may be trying to milk the 'iPhone' and 'Apple' brands for all their worth.

Bold & Thunder may be the route to take.

[tintinium]

Well... it's Rogers.

I love Apple products... but this is just plain and simply too expensive.

[Yume-sama]

So, did anybody cough up the dough for the iPhone? :P Lastnight at about 8PM there was 1 guy waiting outside the Fido store on Richards / Robson in a lawn chair. This morning at about 7:30 there were about 10 - 15 people outside the Rogers store just down the street. I had almost expected there to be more.

[sacrifice333]

The new $30 add-on 6GB data plan is decent... but it should really be unlimited.

I'm hoping within 6-12 months some of the shortfalls of the iPhone are addressed... video, bigger megapixel camera, better battery life, cut & paste abillity... then I might jump.

[Yume-sama]

Oh, I am sure we are probably only a few months away from another new iPhone :P

Still holding out for the Blackberry Bold, though.

[Smooth]

I'm with Telus and although I think the iPhone is quite cool there's no way I'd be lured over to Rogers with that rate plan.

I also don't think the iPhone is everything I'd want it to be for the money they're asking for it. I'd rather wait a few years until Telus switches over to the 3G network and by then hopefully they'd have an iPhone with >80GB capacity. At this point the iPhone couldn't replace my 80GB iPod/phone/digital camera so I don't see the point in getting one.

[tintinium]

I REALLY think it's a bad idea for Telus to be charging for incoming SMS messages in light the iPhone...

saying all that... I'm actually looking forward to the Blackberry Thunder.

The iPhone is cool and all and is a great internet browser... but after using the iPhone I think haptic feedback is essential with onscreen keyboards.

Saying all that... I saw an application on the iTunes that I really want... almost makes me want to get an iPod Touch... if they weren't so overpriced now.

[SpongeG]

the samsung touch equivalent has come out with bell and is said to be a much better phone

anyway they showed the iphone launch on the news and they showed a rogers video store line up

couldn't they have at least showed the apple store? is the store not selling the phone?

[jlousa]

No you can not buy the iphone at Apple in Canada.

[tintinium]

No you can not buy the iphone at Apple in Canada.

Kinda funny, eh?

Customer: I'll have an iPhone please... surprised there's no lineup

Apple Dude: "Sorry, you can not buy the Apple iPhone here."

"But isn't this the Apple store?"

Yes, but you can only get it at Rogers, you can buy a Mac here, though... like this one.

"That one's too small, have you got something else?"

"Sure, there's a Big Mac over there..."

"No thanks, I'm not hungry... and I prefer sweet foods"

"Uhhhmm... okay... like Chocolate?"

"You sell the Chocolat? Isn't that a bit strange, selling your competitor's phone?"

SMacks head to forehead

[tintinium]

Yeah, looks like Rogers may be trying to milk the 'iPhone' and 'Apple' brands for all their worth.

Bold & Thunder may be the route to take.
Bold? Meh.... Thunder, however might be worth looking at... haptic feedback... that stuff is some useful technology.

[Hong Kongese]

Definitely, I will get an iphone, just a matter of when!

[SpongeG]

No you can not buy the iphone at Apple in Canada.

thats bizarre :haha:

all the apple stores in the states carried it

anyway

I wonder how many people have iphone remorse 2 days later

[ckkelley]

I have an iphone. I lined up at the fido on Robson and Granville. I got there at 6:20am and was first in line. By the time the store opened at 9:30am there was about 25 people waiting. It turned out that the store only had 10 iphones. 2 16GB (one black - yoink! and one white one) and the eight remaining were all 8GB.

I had it up and runnin' (without a hitch btw) by about 12:30pm.

When a was a little boy, I dreamed of the day when such a device would exist.

Yes, expensive. It was $335.00 and will cost me $1,000.00 annually for three years. The past four days have been among the best in my life, hee hee.

/lonely bastard, gadget prostitute.

[sacrifice333]

Yes, expensive. It was $335.00 and will cost me $1,000.00 annually for three years. The past four days have been among the best in my life, hee hee.

Which plan did you go with? The $30/6GB data add-on? If so... does this plan includes unlimited Rogers wifi?

p.s. how's the battery life?

[ckkelley]

Which plan did you go with? The $30/6GB data add-on? If so... does this plan includes unlimited Rogers wifi?

p.s. how's the battery life?

Yes, any data package includes the unlimited Rogers wifi.

I went with the $60 package - 150 minutes, 400MB data, unlimited even/wkend etc.

With tax/assorted fees - $85.00 monthy.

It is a very cool machine but a definate battery hog. Although, I just charged it to full from being near empty in 75 minutes. I'll have to research methods of energy conservation but so far I'm happy with battery performance.

I'm sure the 400MB will be loads as I'll be doing most of my surfin' via wi-fi.

[dreambrother808]

Here's a photo from AppleInsider of the Beijing Apple Store, opening tomorrow. Too bad we weren't lucky enough to get something similar.

http://images.appleinsider.com/aschina-080718-1.jpg

[NewfBC]

Here's a photo from AppleInsider of the Beijing Apple Store, opening tomorrow. Too bad we weren't lucky enough to get something similar.

http://images.appleinsider.com/aschina-080718-1.jpg

Maybe when we're lucky enough to have 17 million people living in our city, and have to wear a gas mask to go for a walk.

Ron.

[Denscity]

Maybe when we're lucky enough to have 17 million people living in our city, and have to wear a gas mask to go for a walk.

Ron.

Good point Ron

[SpongeG]

i hardly doubt vancouver will only have 1 apple store - seattle which is close in size as more than 1

but as apple itself as said its only Canadian Flagship will be in montreal and if its not a flasghip its nothing special

[Nutterbug]

Maybe when we're lucky enough to have 17 million people living in our city, and have to wear a gas mask to go for a walk.

Ron.

Is that office space up top there?

I'd hate to work in it if it is.

[tintinium]

Yes, any data package includes the unlimited Rogers wifi.

I went with the $60 package - 150 minutes, 400MB data, unlimited even/wkend etc.

With tax/assorted fees - $85.00 monthy.

It is a very cool machine but a definate battery hog. Although, I just charged it to full from being near empty in 75 minutes. I'll have to research methods of energy conservation but so far I'm happy with battery performance.

I'm sure the 400MB will be loads as I'll be doing most of my surfin' via wi-fi.

"Rogers Wi-Fi" is basically using their hotspots right? Are those just around Rogers and Fido stores?

What WOULD be cool is if the iPhone had an 802.16 antenna and Rogers Wifi included its Inukshuk network. You'd practically never be out of range in Metro Vancouver.

[Pinion]

My phone cost three times as much as an iphone and is three times less sexy but also at least three times better.

http://www.luxphones.com/images/cellphones/NOKIA_E90_hf.jpg

[deasine]

That's three times as much with contract. If the E90 was available here, it would probably at the most be 50 dollars more expensive? Right now, the iPhone is about retail for $1000+ for a fully unlocked one from 3G HK.

I'm a phone freak and I have posted this on my facebook note:
Well I've been asked this question a lot now and previously I've replied, "that's the only way... you have to sign with Rogers. But wait until a few weeks, because it will be available in the Chinese stores right away..."

Well, looks like I was wrong... It's a few days only. Three days after July 11th, I found an online dealer located in Toronto (in Pacific Mall), where they are carrying the new iPhone 8GB black edition for $699. Now this might seem a huge rippoff considering the iPhone here is $199. HAHA maybe not until you see the math below:

iPhone 8GB Black Edition from Rogers/Fido 3-Year Contract:
$199 Initial Cost

Talk and Data Plan for $60 per month
$60 x 12 = $720 per year

Three Year long contract:
$720 x 3 = $2160 O_O"

Therefore total money you will be giving to Rogers is:
$2160 + $199 = $2359

iPhone 8GB Black Edition from UnlockLink
$699 + shipping (approx $30 or more depending) = $729

Normal Plan most of us have: $30
$30 x 12 = $360

Three year long:
$360 x 3 = $1080 -___-

Threfore total money you will be spending for your iPhone is:
$729 + $1080 = $1809
http://unlocklink.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=115

Wow... a $550 difference! Now I have to say, these rates aren't really fair to the iPhone from Rogers because their plan includes data services and internet usage over their network while the iPhone from Unlocklink can't do that. BUT, who uses Rogers 3G when you have WiFi (wireless laptop internet)! People rarely browse the net with their phone anyways... Also one more thing to note, the iPhone from Unlocklink, I used a three year long plan, but many of us have less than three years to go with our plan anyway... So if you have less than three years, the cost savings are even more... CAN YOU IMAGINE IF YOU WERE USING PAY-AS-YOU-GO? =O Cheap Cheap Cheap! (Yes I perfectly represent chinese stereotype XD XD)

If you don't mind waiting for a month or two, you can possibly get the iPhone for much less. The first iPhone costed over $1000 overseas, but then dropped to $700 after four months. Now that the iPhone is available almost everywhere, I'm 100% sure the initial cost of the iPhone will be much less.

Do the math before you commit to any contract! =D
Note: iPhone from Unlocklink is from Fido/Rogers except it's string-free (no contract) and not the fully-unlocked iPhone from Hong Kong (via 3HK)

[tintinium]

But won't it be bricked after a software update from Apple?

[deasine]

But won't it be bricked after a software update from Apple?

Which iPhone? The one from unlocklink sells phones that are by Rogers/Fido. The ones in Hong Kong are fully unlocked by default. There are a number of places in the world where there are laws that make sure a phone is fully unlocked by default, including Italy I believe. I don't think it's a law in Hong Kong, but phones there are never locked anyways. Since it's factory unlocked, it won't be bricked.

Besides, people will be able to hack into the phone within a week =)

[tintinium]

Which iPhone? The one from unlocklink sells phones that are by Rogers/Fido. The ones in Hong Kong are fully unlocked by default. There are a number of places in the world where there are laws that make sure a phone is fully unlocked by default, including Italy I believe. I don't think it's a law in Hong Kong, but phones there are never locked anyways. Since it's factory unlocked, it won't be bricked.

Besides, people will be able to hack into the phone within a week =)

Yes... I'm talking about the one from Unlocklink. They're unlocking the phones from Fido/Rogers. So, better not update the phone... or it could be bricked... I wonder how they're getting phones out of contract. As I understand it, you must sign a contract to get a phone.

[deasine]

Yes... I'm talking about the one from Unlocklink. They're unlocking the phones from Fido/Rogers. So, better not update the phone... or it could be bricked... I wonder how they're getting phones out of contract. As I understand it, you must sign a contract to get a phone.

No no no HAHA sorry I don't think I was talking right. The iPhones from Unlocklink aren't unlocked. They bought phones from Rogers & Fido and they are just selling the phones to Canadians (I believe). The store gets some pretty amazing deals for phones... and I wonder how they got the iPhone too. I think it would be costing a lot of money if they bought the iPhone then ended the contract... But then again, there are so many insiders in Rogers & Fido... You can do lots of negotiating if you are in the mobile industry (especially with Chinese people =S) so they might've got the iPhones that way.

Of course if you want to play the safe way, some online stores are carrying the iPhone from Hong Kong, but it's asking for $1000. But iPhone's prices is known to fall very quickly... Give it about a month or two and you can find a factory unlocked iPhone for much less.

[SpongeG]

according to some news i read the i-phone was hacked a couple days ago

[jlousa]

They've only hacked the application side so you can now load Linux and/or run non apple certified applications. The phone part of V2.0 has yet to be hacked, shouldn't take much longer though.

[cprail]

Montreal's store is unveiled...a little smaller than expected
http://www.macetmoi.com/blog/132-apple-store-montreal-cette-fois-cest-la-bonne

[NewfBC]

Montreal's store is unveiled...a little smaller than expected
http://www.macetmoi.com/blog/132-apple-store-montreal-cette-fois-cest-la-bonne


Smaller? Looks like it takes up the entire building space.

Ron.

[mr.x2]

^ the first level of Montreal's new store appears to be a quarter of the size of the Pacific Centre store.....iunno about the second level of Montreal's.

[deasine]

^ the first level of Montreal's new store appears to be a quarter of the size of the Pacific Centre store.....iunno about the second level of Montreal's.

certainly doesn't look like it... and the second floor is about the same size as the first... so that's only 1/2 our store... But Vancouver's store is pretty deep in so it actually looks smaller than it really is...

[Hong Kongese]

Google's Answer to the iPhone UnveiledSource: By PETER SVENSSON, The

Associated Press
Posted: 09/23/08 3:12PM

NEW YORK - The first cell phone running Google Inc.'s mobile software looks something like Apple Inc.'s iPhone and has a large touch screen, but it also packs a trackball, a slide-out keyboard and easy access to Google's e-mail and mapping programs.
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr71/yellowfever_2008/google-phone-453.jpg
Photo Gallery: Gadgets of the Year

1 of 6Google Android Phone
The T-Mobile G1 Android-powered phone, the first cell phone with the operating system designed by Google Inc., is shown Tuesday, Sept. 23, 2008 in New York.Google made its debut as a cell phone software provider Tuesday at an event where wireless carrier T-Mobile said it will begin selling the G1 phone for $179 with a two-year contract. The device hits U.S. stores Oct. 22 and heads to Britain in November and other European countries early next year.

The phone will be sold in T-Mobile stores only in the U.S. cities where the company has rolled out its faster, third-generation wireless data network. By launch, that will be 21 cities, including New York, Los Angeles, Houston and Miami.

In other areas, people will be able to buy the phone from T-Mobile's Web site. The phone does work on T-Mobile's slower data network, but it's optimized for the faster networks. It can also connect at Wi-Fi hotspots.

The data plan for the phone will cost $25 per month on top of the calling service, at the low end of the range for data plans at U.S. wireless carriers. And at $179, the G1 is $20 less than the least expensive iPhone in the U.S.

Like the iPhone, the G1 has a high-resolution screen, making it easier to browse Web sites that haven't been specifically adapted for a cell phone. Unlike the iPhone, Research in Motion Ltd.'s BlackBerrys and most other high-end smart phones sold in the U.S., the G1 has a very limited ability to connect to corporate e-mail servers. That means the device's initial market is likely to be consumers.

Google is giving away Android, the software that underlies the G1, for free, and opening the operating system to third-party developers who can create their own programs. The software has been seen as Google's way of getting a foothold on the mobile Internet, which industry watchers see as a big growth area, and in particular as a way to make advertising on cell phone screens a viable business.

In an interview, Google co-founder Sergey Brin said Google's aims are broader than mobile advertising.

"Generally, we think if there are great (operating systems) out there that let people have great devices and great applications, people use the Internet on their phones much more," Brin said at the launch event in New York. "And whenever people use the Internet more, they end up using our services, and ultimately, that's good for our business. There's no secret plan to have ads pop up or anything."

On the face of it, the G1 doesn't do much that other high-end phones don't already do. But Google is counting the device unleashing the creativity of software developers, who are free to write applications for it.

"There aren't a lot of 'wow' features on it. I think what we can expect from it is that it's going to be a good Internet phone," said Lance Ulanoff, editor-in-chief of PC Magazine.

Developers will be able to submit applications to an online store run by Google, which will apply minimal vetting. Apple launched a similar store for the iPhone earlier this year, but keeps much tighter control over what applications are available. It has blocked programs that compete with its own.

Brin also revealed that he had personally written an application for the phone.

"It's just very exciting for me as a computer geek to be able to have a phone that I can play with and modify and innovate upon just like I have with computers in the past," he said.

Brin's program uses the phone's built-in motion sensor to measure how long it takes for the phone to land when tossed into the air. He acknowledged that the wisdom of including such a program with an expensive phone is dubious.

"We did not include that one by default," he said.

[ckkelley]

^
I'm definately underwhelmed. I'm biased, I own an iphone but I was expecting something different or at least compelling.

This looks like a lot of other cellphones.

[SpongeG]

i wonder when it will come to canada and how long it will take for one of the phone companies to overcharge us

[deasine]

Evidently, it's not a phone for you. The specs aren't impressive... the "looks" look like T-Mobile's Sidekick (aimed for youth), but I can tell you it's the start of Google Android... Right now, in terms of mobile operating systems, the most widely used ones are:
1) Symbian OS (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc.)
2) RIM (Blackberrys)
3) Windows Mobile

Google will be the fourth major OS for the mobile market... and will be a big one since more and more phone manufacturers are joining in. Many delays of Windows Mobile are causing them to fall behind, so G