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dreambrother808
Oct 5, 2008, 12:20 AM
I remember the shutdown being mentioned somewhere else before. Not sure where though.

Gordon
Nov 5, 2008, 7:57 PM
There is a press release on Translink's site that talks about the renovations to the Broadway Station that start Nov. There is no mention made of any closures.

deasine
Nov 6, 2008, 5:06 AM
^CTV also reported this two days ago (keep on forgetting to post =P), the will begin later this month.

jlousa
Nov 7, 2008, 4:03 AM
Lots of info on the Broadway station renos on the following pdf. Some of the changes the city is going to be doing will help as well. The expanded sidewalks and double width sidewalks will certainly help.

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/Broadway_Boards_prf17.pdf

Anyone know if there is a reason that the overhead passage way between Broadway and Commercial didn't take up the whole space available, there is about 1m on either side which would've helped with congestion.

deasine
Nov 7, 2008, 8:07 AM
I have a feeling it's all boils down to the financing. Even though I would be better and aesthetically nicer to have a larger passerelle, I think it was way too expensive.

Really, I want them to get rid of CIBC, replacing it with just a civic plaza and have the station entrance (of north side) opening to a civic plaza. That way, you have so much more room for people to navigate around.

Dave2
Nov 7, 2008, 7:09 PM
Lots of info on the Broadway station renos on the following pdf. Some of the changes the city is going to be doing will help as well. The expanded sidewalks and double width sidewalks will certainly help.

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/Broadway_Boards_prf17.pdf

Anyone know if there is a reason that the overhead passage way between Broadway and Commercial didn't take up the whole space available, there is about 1m on either side which would've helped with congestion.


It's probably because prior to 2001, it was just an overpass to a stairwell on the north side of E. Broadway (iirc, there was no escalator or elevator before the M line was built, I may be wrong).

In hindsight, it would have made sense to build it as wide as they could have in the 80's, bu tin those days, with no M-Line, and no 99-B Line, it wasn't as busy as it is now.

officedweller
Nov 7, 2008, 7:17 PM
Anyone know if there is a reason that the overhead passage way between Broadway and Commercial didn't take up the whole space available, there is about 1m on either side which would've helped with congestion.

Thanks for the info.

Probably a cost savings measure when the Expo Line was built (i.e. before it was a transfer station) and could be widened in future to extend the platform.

If it was actually a design feature, my guess is that you want the corridor to be narrower than the holding area (platform) so that there's a rate limited flow onto the platform. i.e. people spill out into a roomier area. If it were as wide as the platform, people entering the platform area would run into people waiting at the platform edge, which could be a safety problem.
The platforms (as-built) were meant for 6-car MK-I trains which take up the whole length of the platform (so there would be people awaiting at the platform edge right at the end of the corridor).

Jared
Nov 8, 2008, 3:02 AM
Renovations have started; there's a bunch of white plywood fencing put up around the south end of the station.

Also, note in the PDF is says "next steps: planning and design for major capacity improvements". It would appear they have the future platform extentions in mind when doing this upgrade.

officedweller
Dec 19, 2008, 3:12 AM
From the Buzzer Blog:


Scott Road Station getting second elevator:

http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2008/12/scott-road-stations-getting-a-second-elevator/

Update on Broadway Station renovations:

http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2008/12/broadway-station-construction-update-for-december-2008/#more-1643

The hoarding on the south end of the platform.
http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/broadway-elevator-hoarding.jpg

The emergency exit on the south side of the station has been demolished and the asphalt on that side removed. Look, you can see right through to 10th Avenue now!
http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/broadway-workers.jpg

The chain-link fence under the station has been removed, as well as the TransLink garbage and recycling bins.
http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/broadway-construction-underneath.jpg

deasine
Dec 19, 2008, 4:40 AM
December 18, 2008
Universal accessibility gets a “lift" - 2nd Elevator for Scott Road Station

Second Elevator to be Installed at Scott Road Station
A longstanding barrier to seniors and people with disabilities will at last be removed in 2009, with the installation of a new elevator at Scott Road Station. TransLink approved the necessary capital funds, following the recommendation of the Access Transit Users’ Advisory Committee, and ensuring that the new elevator will take precedence over other renovations at Scott Road.
The elevator will take customers from the SkyTrain platform to the bus loop on the north (nearest Pattullo Bridge) side of the station. Currently, a person with a mobility device who needed to get between the bus exchange to SkyTrain needed to wait for a taxi to take them to the park and ride, where the one elevator is located.

“Making public transit fully accessible has been a priority for TransLink,” said TransLink CEO, Tom Prendergast. “The Access Transit Users’ Advisory Committee has shown tireless commitment to accessibility and has provided invaluable feedback that allows us to improve our transit system.”

“We are very pleased to see this project moving forward and appreciate the contributions made by the Access Transit Users’ Advisory Committee”, said Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, Chair of the Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation. “Access for all is imperative and we are very pleased to have worked with TransLink to bring this project to fruition”.
“This is a long-anticipated day,” added Rob Sleath, Chair of the UAC. “When construction of the second elevator is complete, persons with disabilities and seniors will be able to more easily, independently and inclusively access the conventional transit, community shuttle and/or HandyDART services that frequent the Scott Road SkyTrain Station.”
Station upgrades are being completed through the Expo Line Station Review as part of TransLink’s Accessibility Commitment. Four major stations have been identified for improvements: Broadway Station is currently under construction. In 2006 an elevator was installed at Granville Station making the downtown core accessible. Future improvements are anticipated for Metrotown and Main Street Station.

hollywoodnorth
Dec 19, 2008, 6:15 AM
great news all around! a fully accessible system is how it should be.

punkster1982
Dec 20, 2008, 12:44 AM
I know a lot of people take the #640 to the ferry from Scott Road and I'm sure they will also appreciate the elevator!

Dave2
Dec 22, 2008, 9:02 PM
That photo showing the hoarding on the platform is already out of date; the seats seen in the foreground have since been 'hoarded in'

officedweller
Dec 23, 2008, 9:24 PM
Has this Main Street Station render been posted before?

Its from the public consultation boards at this link on the TransLink website:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans/Public_Consultation/Main_St_Upgrades.asp

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/544/63450102sa9.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/63450102sa9.png/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img525/63450102sa9.png/1/)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1981/60342123au1.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/60342123au1.png/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img525/60342123au1.png/1/)

mr.x
Dec 23, 2008, 9:36 PM
^ yea, i posted that awhile ago....we were all wondering which station it was.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8917/11279564xn4.png




I think it's a shame Broadway Station isn't getting more renovations considering it's by far the busiest station.

SpongeG
Dec 23, 2008, 9:51 PM
i liked the other first rendering - this one is nice too but the other one was cooler

deasine
Dec 23, 2008, 10:02 PM
Looking from Mr. X's rendering... it looks like they decided to remove the mezzanine level and puts the ticket concourse on the ground level. It's a much better design as it is easily accessible. This is also stated in the minutes section 3.2.

While the current renderings are quite different from what we were presented earlier, the first being much more impressive... it does answer our concerns about platform extensions. The new design, with the east side of the station being much longer, allows for easier platform extensions simply by removing the glass (vs. relocating the elevator and extending the platform if we went with the first design).
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7834/sci6be2.png

The current design does nothing to preclude fare gates from being installed in the future, which was another problem with the first design.

Interestingly enough, this station will be closed for at least four months...

deasine
Dec 23, 2008, 10:22 PM
Continuing to scan the minutes.... ahem... "Depending on how quick a funding decision is available it may be possible to have the east side station house done in 2009"

=D

mr.x
Dec 23, 2008, 10:23 PM
Wasn't this suppose to be all done by 2010?

deasine
Dec 23, 2008, 10:28 PM
Not anymore... they may be closing the station during June of 2010 now. I guess the initial plan didn't factor in the platform extensions and the inclusion of fare gates (or the space for it).

officedweller
Dec 23, 2008, 11:21 PM
The new design, with the east side of the station being much longer, allows for easier platform extensions simply by removing the glass (vs. relocating the elevator and extending the platform if we went with the first design).

I remember looking at that original render and thinking that it wouldn't allow for a platform extension. The new design places the new stairs, elevator and escalators in the centre of the platform with 1.5m on each side whihc allows them to be midway along the length of the platform.

SpongeG
Dec 23, 2008, 11:35 PM
so the starbucks won't move in this new configuration?

the old one showed it moving off of main to the side and the entrance would be off main

deasine
Dec 24, 2008, 12:02 AM
so the starbucks won't move in this new configuration?

the old one showed it moving off of main to the side and the entrance would be off main

it will still be moved.

DKaz
Dec 24, 2008, 4:56 PM
It seems like the 2nd picture has more panels (therefore longer platform) than the 1st picture

officedweller
Dec 24, 2008, 10:51 PM
Probably just the angle of the rendering - they both go to the same guideway pylon.

Metro-One
Dec 24, 2008, 11:01 PM
Can someone please re-post all of the station redesigns, i have not seen any for Edmonds and central Surrey. Also, i am now confused with Main St. Station, did they cancel the awesome design wit the bid "Main St" letters?

NetMapel
Dec 24, 2008, 11:09 PM
Has this Main Street Station render been posted before?

Its from the public consultation boards at this link on the TransLink website:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans/Public_Consultation/Main_St_Upgrades.asp

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/544/63450102sa9.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/63450102sa9.png/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img525/63450102sa9.png/1/)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1981/60342123au1.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/60342123au1.png/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img525/60342123au1.png/1/)

I happen to like this design better :P It's more "round" and I love the big curved glass plate.

officedweller
Dec 24, 2008, 11:18 PM
Can someone please re-post all of the station redesigns, i have not seen any for Edmonds and central Surrey. Also, i am now confused with Main St. Station, did they cancel the awesome design wit the bid "Main St" letters?

Yes, that design has been cancelled, because the east station house would have taken up the entire width of the east end of the platform and would have prevented the lengthening of the platform. The current plan has the stairs, escalators and elevator centred between the future platform edges with 1.5 metre clearances on each side (I think the east "platform extension" will be walled in with glass upon opening and then removed when the platform is actually expanded).

deasine
Dec 24, 2008, 11:57 PM
Probably just the angle of the rendering - they both go to the same guideway pylon.

It seems like the 2nd picture has more panels (therefore longer platform) than the 1st picture

It's longer (more panels or whatever). You can actually use the SkyTrain guideway columns as reference. As

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7834/sci6be2.png
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/544/63450102sa9.png

Both these pictures show similar angles of Main St. Station. Notice the second straight column on the east side of Main Street. On the first rendering, the design only reaches the second column whereas the new design, the station concept actually goes way past the second column.

I'm glad they got rid of the MAIN STREET & SCIENCE WORLD text. It was incredibly tacky.

officedweller
Dec 25, 2008, 1:26 AM
I thought he meant the difference between the east facing and the west facing renders of the new design

WBC
Dec 25, 2008, 4:12 AM
I like the idea of making our stations offer more protection against the elements, which is on the Main station upgrade agenda. Our existing Expo stations are more suited for California climate than BC. On the other hand we don't want bunkers either. So that curved glass will address the problem nicely I think.

flight_from_kamakura
Dec 25, 2008, 4:15 AM
^agree 1000%.

CoryHolmes
Dec 25, 2008, 9:45 AM
On the other hand we don't want bunkers either.

But where else will we shelter when the Zombie Apocalypse happens? :shrug:

WBC
Dec 25, 2008, 4:08 PM
But where else will we shelter when the Zombie Apocalypse happens? :shrug:

In our glass towers of course - see "Land of the dead"

Volksboi
Dec 25, 2008, 10:55 PM
I did not know that Central City was part of the upgrades, or is this based on the transit village they are working on. Either way, does anyone have any renderings?

deasine
Dec 26, 2008, 1:06 AM
Transit village: nothing more than what we have on TransLink's website atm:

http://translink.bc.ca/Plans_Projects/Urban_Showcase/Transit_Villages/surrey_central_create_plan.asp

hollywoodnorth
Dec 28, 2008, 4:15 AM
Not anymore... they may be closing the station during June of 2010 now. I guess the initial plan didn't factor in the platform extensions and the inclusion of fare gates (or the space for it).

that seems like a logistical nightmare having Main Street Station closed for a whole month.......I sure hope that does not happen.....

SpongeG
Dec 28, 2008, 4:20 AM
they just have to reroute buses

I believe most of the users of the station arrive on busses there

and by 2010 those who live close by and walk can walk to stadium or the canada line as needed

DKaz
Dec 29, 2008, 5:52 PM
The previous company I was working at did the conceptual Main St Science World Station design (the original picture with the tacky Station name wording on the exterior - won't say which aspect) and at the time the station length was still 80m with absolutely no provisions for platform lengthening because the elevators and escalators would've been in the way. The elevator was right against the eastbound tracks while the stairs and escalators were against the westbound tracks.

The new photos look like they're still building it to 80m but with the east end platform house further out, there is future provision to extend the platforms. Seems odd that they don't do it all in one go.

I have a friend working at Metro Vancouver who would be more than happy to share this information with me if I ask. *doo doo doo*

ravman
Dec 29, 2008, 9:19 PM
the MAIN STREET STATION sign actually looks nice and funky and its a shame to see the updated drawings not having that....

officedweller
Dec 29, 2008, 9:55 PM
Seems odd that they don't do it all in one go.

Probably just different sources of funding and different timing (one federal infrstructure program and the other provincial transit plan)

Spork
Jan 13, 2009, 9:21 PM
fyi, they were disassembling the announcement displays at surrey central today.

SpongeG
Jan 13, 2009, 11:27 PM
why would they do that?

Whalleyboy
Jan 13, 2009, 11:34 PM
i saw them doing that at gateway too

mr.x
Jan 13, 2009, 11:48 PM
Perhaps those LCD screens will be used for train announcements afterall.

deasine
Jan 14, 2009, 1:46 AM
I hope they are replacing them with LED ones with newer LED ones. The colour screens are nice, with ads (no that's not nice) and Global News Headlines, but there is much space for transit information.

What I would rather have is colour screens for every station, which displays TransLink updates and Buzzer Articles, and new LED displays that display "Next Train" information.

Vancity
Jan 14, 2009, 1:58 AM
I hope they are replacing them with LED ones with newer LED ones. The colour screens are nice, with ads (no that's not nice) and Global News Headlines, but there is much space for transit information.

What I would rather have is colour screens for every station, which displays TransLink updates and Buzzer Articles, and new LED displays that display "Next Train" information.

I'd love for those as well. LED displays "Next Train" information. Too bad Skytrain won't install those double doors (like the ones they have in HK in the MTR).

deasine
Jan 14, 2009, 2:04 AM
You mean platform screen doors? Can't be possible here. The two generations of trains have different door locations. Until we get rid of all the MKIs and replace them with MKIIs (which won't be within the next twenty years), we can't have them.

The Canada Line on the other hand... but I wouldn't put those in either until we have max 50m trains.

nname
Jan 14, 2009, 2:08 AM
Until we get rid of all the MKIs and replace them with MKIIs (which won't be within the next twenty years), we can't have them.

We still can't have them then, until we convert all the trains to 5-cars MKIIs (or limit the capacity to 4-cars MKIIs)

teriyaki
Jan 14, 2009, 3:57 AM
I'd love for those as well. LED displays "Next Train" information. Too bad Skytrain won't install those double doors (like the ones they have in HK in the MTR).

I actually don't fancy the platform doors too much. It lessens the experience. Kind of miss peeking your head out a bit to catch the lights of the train come barrelling down the tunnel and then lean back as the train whooshes by, feeling the breeze on your face.

officedweller
Jan 14, 2009, 9:05 PM
Yeah, platform screen doors do sterilize the subway experience - kind of like waiting for a big elevator.

twoNeurons
Jan 14, 2009, 10:01 PM
I actually don't fancy the platform doors too much. It lessens the experience. Kind of miss peeking your head out a bit to catch the lights of the train come barrelling down the tunnel and then lean back as the train whooshes by, feeling the breeze on your face.

And all it takes is one little bump or push...

geoff's two cents
Jan 14, 2009, 10:20 PM
:previous: Indeed.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/05/20/woman-reveals-terror-of-spadina-subway-fall-another-moment-and-my-head-would-have-been-crushed.aspx

Vancity
Jan 14, 2009, 10:34 PM
And all it takes is one little bump or push...

That's why those platform doors wouldn't be a bad idea. Surely the engineers can make it happen.

ravman
Jan 14, 2009, 10:38 PM
so at VCC- Clark station

Monday: LCD fully working ( the tv)
Tuesday: No News- ads still showing
Wednesday: OFF!

deasine
Jan 15, 2009, 4:04 AM
Well the LED displays on Gateway and Surrey Central are still there... so I don't know what you guys were talking about. There are LCD displays at Gateway now.

Spork
Jan 15, 2009, 4:23 AM
Maybe somebody dropped one? I will report back tomorrow when I head to class.

jlousa
Jan 25, 2009, 7:43 AM
Translink has issued an RFP for work at the Metrotown station. I've cut and pasted the details and attached a link to the full documents below. Enjoy

2.0 PURPOSE AND SCOPE OF RFP
2.1 Through this Request for Proposals (“RFP”), TransLink intends to retain a contractor to supply architectural, transportation planning and engineering design services for the Schematic Design of specific improvements to Metrotown SkyTrain Station and the associated transit exchange for a proposed term of approximately eight (8) months. Preliminary and Detailed Design, which involves the development of construction documents, will be addressed by a subsequent RFP.
2.2 Metrotown Station Upgrades
(a) The main objective of the Metrotown Station Upgrade is to address capacity constraints and access/accessibility needs to ensure current and future SkyTrain and bus passenger demands are met.
(b) Close to 40,000 people a day use Metrotown Station, making it the second busiest SkyTrain station. At the heart of the largest Regional Town Centre, Metrotown Station is an important destination for worker, residents and shoppers. It is also an important bus hub – passenger volumes through the bus loop are approximately 50% of the SkyTrain volumes. Looking
ahead, the area around Metrotown will experience growth. Redevelopment and intensification will increase demands on this station. The station currently faces significant access and capacity constraints which will become more pronounced with anticipated growth.
(c) The following issues have been identified at Metrotown Station:
1. Capacity
a. Metrotown Station has, functionally, only one entrance at the east end of the platform which is used by the vast majority of passengers to exit and enter the station. As a result, passengers are loaded disproportionately on the east end of the platform, creating significant congestion on the platform, single staircase and single ascending escalator between the mezzanine level and platform. This problem is compounded when two trains are unloading in the station at a time.
b. The passerelle linking the station to Metropolis Mall, Metrotower office buildings and the bus loop is too narrow to accommodate current passenger volumes.
c. Currently the bus loop is located across the street from the station. Many transferring passengers use the passerelle to connect to buses, contributing to congestion in the elevated walkway.
d. The mezzanine level, where the ticket vending machines are located, also becomes congested and the queue of people buying tickets blocks access to the escalator and passerelle.
e. The only access point on the western side of the station is via a single elevator. It is the only entrance for those who cannot manage stairs and is the closest entrance to the bus loop and destinations north and west of the station. As a result it is in heavy demand and there are often queues.
f. The existing bus exchange is overcrowded and does not meet current or future bus capacity needs.
2. Access/Accessibility
a. The eastern entrance is not accessible to people who cannot manage stairs. There is no elevator and escalator between grade and the mezzanine. The passarelle linking the station to Metropolis Mall is at a different grade than the station mezzanine, requiring three steps, which interrupts passenger flow, creates accessibility challenges for those who have difficulty with stairs or those with heavy items or a stroller and can reduce safety and cause delay.
b. On the west side, an elevator provides an accessible connection between grade and the platform. However connections between the elevator and the bus loop and the mall are indirect and inconvenient. Passengers are
required to cross Central Boulevard and are funneled into a narrow pathway edged by a metal railing on both sides. At 1.2m wide, the walkway is insufficient to comfortably accommodate significant bi-directional flow or allow a wheelchair user to comfortably pass a single pedestrian. Passengers instead tend to cut across the bus loop which can interfere with bus
circulation.
c. The surface-quality of the paths leading to the station is poor.
3. Passenger Environment and Amenity
a. In the station and station-area, deficiencies in passenger environment andamenity have also been identified including inadequate wayfinding and passenger information, CPTED issues, insufficient lighting, and undefined and poor surfacing and landscaping beneath the guideway in the station

STUDIES TO DATE
In June 2007, a Conceptual Design study was completed entitled “Metrotown SkyTrain Station Village Plan – Options and Evaluation” which explored the recommendations from the site assessment report. This study included input from a variety of stakeholders from TransLink, the City of Burnaby, SkyTrain and Coast Mountain Bus Company. This report presents a preferred option for the station expansion, including the following:
1. Rebuilding the east station house to include escalators to grade, and eliminate the grade change between passerelle and the mezzanine
2. Widening the passarelle to provide greater capacity and better passenger comfort.
3. Extending the mezzanine at the east station from the rebuilt station house to a relocated elevator core at mid-station
4. Extending the platform and building a new entrance at the western end to increase platform capacity, distribute passenger loads and connect to destinations to the west of the station and the bus exchange under the guideway.
5. Extending/redesigning the station roof to the full extent of the platform. A redesigned station roof and enclosure would provide weather protection for the entire length of the platform, provide more transparency and mark the station as a major landmark.
6. Providing the primary bus exchange underneath the station to minimize the transfer time and distance for passengers and address capacity constraints at the existing exchange. Bus stops at existing exchange will be maintained to provide direct access to the mall for bus passengers.
7. The new bus exchange underneath the station is envisioned as a vibrant urban plaza incorporating the BC Parkway through the exchange and/or along Beresford.
8. Increasing elevator capacity. Relocating elevator(s) to connect with expanded mezzanine creating an accessible connection to the east stationhouse.

Full Report
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/procurements/Q9-0002_-_RFP.pdf

Metrotown Station report from last summer for refresher.
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/procurements/Q9-0002_-_Ref_Doc_3.pdf

deasine
Jan 25, 2009, 8:11 AM
Oh finally... thanks for the update jlousa =)

I just realized RFPs reveal everything =P

eduardo88
Jan 25, 2009, 4:50 PM
4. Extending the platform and building a new entrance at the western end to increase platform capacity, distribute passenger loads and connect to destinations to the west of the station and the bus exchange under the guideway.

Does this mean they're going to go through with the lengthening to fit 6-car Mark II trains, or just lengthen it slightly to add another entrance at the west end of the station?

metroXpress
Jan 25, 2009, 6:37 PM
I think the Commerical Station is having some minor renovations...I saw it when I drove past the station :)

agrant
Jan 25, 2009, 7:52 PM
Does this mean they're going to go through with the lengthening to fit 6-car Mark II trains, or just lengthen it slightly to add another entrance at the west end of the station?I found this blurb in the one of the PDFs that jlousa provided.

"2.2.2 Extend Platform: The existing station is planned to accommodate a 20 m extension of the platform. The guideway geometry is at a constant slope and the distance between the guideway structures does not decrease to allow for this extension. An extension to the existing platform will reduce passenger congestion by increasing the platform area, and allowing the train stopping locations to be ‘offset’ to distriute passengers arriving and departing."

A 20m extension should be enough to accommodate 6 car trains. It almost sounds as though they need to re-build the guideway as well.

Jared
Jan 25, 2009, 7:52 PM
Does this mean they're going to go through with the lengthening to fit 6-car Mark II trains, or just lengthen it slightly to add another entrance at the west end of the station?

extending the Metrotown platform has been the plan since 2007 (see the link jlousa posted), before the Expo line upgrades were announced. It has mainly to do with providing a new Entrance at the western side of the platform I believe.


Anyways, I'm not entirely convinced that spending $2billion to go from 5 cars to 6 is such a good use of money (I'm assuming they're going to 6), it's quite a lot of money, and certainly far short of the "doubling" of capacity that was mentioned originally. That, plus the 6km Surrey extention adds up to $3.1billion. I think we could find better ways to spend this money.

metroXpress
Jan 25, 2009, 7:57 PM
When will this renovation start?

eduardo88
Jan 25, 2009, 8:16 PM
Anyways, I'm not entirely convinced that spending $2billion to go from 5 cars to 6 is such a good use of money (I'm assuming they're going to 6), it's quite a lot of money, and certainly far short of the "doubling" of capacity that was mentioned originally. That, plus the 6km Surrey extention adds up to $3.1billion. I think we could find better ways to spend this money.

yes 2 billion dollars is a ridiculous amount of money to extend all the platforms by just one car length, i'd think that for that money they'd be able to go to 8-car platforms, though i doubt that'd be necessary for current usage, although in 20 years time we may be needing that.

deasine
Jan 25, 2009, 8:18 PM
extending the Metrotown platform has been the plan since 2007 (see the link jlousa posted), before the Expo line upgrades were announced. It has mainly to do with providing a new Entrance at the western side of the platform I believe.

They said in the plan that they were to lengthen the entire platform by 20 m.

nname
Jan 25, 2009, 8:27 PM
2 billions is probably enough to build a new line from Metrotown to Downtown.

mr.x
Jan 25, 2009, 8:31 PM
extending the Metrotown platform has been the plan since 2007 (see the link jlousa posted), before the Expo line upgrades were announced. It has mainly to do with providing a new Entrance at the western side of the platform I believe.


Anyways, I'm not entirely convinced that spending $2billion to go from 5 cars to 6 is such a good use of money (I'm assuming they're going to 6), it's quite a lot of money, and certainly far short of the "doubling" of capacity that was mentioned originally. That, plus the 6km Surrey extention adds up to $3.1billion. I think we could find better ways to spend this money.

There's a separate $1-billion budget to buy more rail cars for the Expo Line, M-Line, Surrey and UBC extensions, and Evergreen. That billion should be enough to buy at least 300 Mark II cars, which in turn with platform extensions would double the Expo's capacity.

Jared
Jan 25, 2009, 9:17 PM
There's a separate $1-billion budget to buy more rail cars for the Expo Line, M-Line, Surrey and UBC extensions, and Evergreen. That billion should be enough to buy at least 300 Mark II cars, which in turn with platform extensions would double the Expo's capacity.

Exactly. The $2B renovations themselves are only going to account for a small portion of the "doubling", the rest of it (longer trains and higher frequency) could happen anyways, and is not being included in the $2B cost.

Let's put it this way, we're spending $2B to render the capacity only 20% higher than what it would otherwise be.

racc
Jan 26, 2009, 12:32 AM
Exactly. The $2B renovations themselves are only going to account for a small portion of the "doubling", the rest of it (longer trains and higher frequency) could happen anyways, and is not being included in the $2B cost.

Let's put it this way, we're spending $2B to render the capacity only 20% higher than what it would otherwise be.

It will probably more than 20% higher. By making the platforms wider and longer, removing barriers and enhancing exits, passenger flows to and from the train will be improved allowing lower headways and thus increasing capacity as well. Still, a lot of money.

The renovations will also make the stations nicer and safer places to be encouraging more people to use the train.

eduardo88
Jan 26, 2009, 2:53 AM
Exactly. The $2B renovations themselves are only going to account for a small portion of the "doubling", the rest of it (longer trains and higher frequency) could happen anyways, and is not being included in the $2B cost.

Let's put it this way, we're spending $2B to render the capacity only 20% higher than what it would otherwise be.

I know that its A LOT of money, but you have to keep in mind that most of stations haven't had any real work done with them since the initial Expo line opened in the 80's. By the time they get through to renovations most of the stations are going to be almost 30 years old, which is the perfect time for them to receive a renovation to last another 30-40 years. So its not just $2 billion to extend them by one car, but also badly needed renovation work, which in turn will allow for safer, cleaner, newer, more efficient stations.

Mac Write
Jan 26, 2009, 2:56 AM
How much would it cost to add by-pass tracks at all stations for express trains, and by adding by-pass tracks, how much time would it cut off the trip? Of course Waterfront, Burrard and Grandville wouldn't have by-pass tracks, Stadium already has a outbound by-pass track in place.

This could be very interesting, would it increase capacity, as well as decrease travel time?

NetMapel
Jan 26, 2009, 2:57 AM
For the Metrotown station, they should get rid of the tunnel thing connecting the station to the shopping mall. Replace the tunnel with an actual huge floor with vender booths and whatnot on it. This will create a bigger open space connecting skytrain to Metrotown with more shopping options.

eduardo88
Jan 26, 2009, 3:05 AM
How much would it cost to add by-pass tracks at all stations for express trains, and by adding by-pass tracks, how much time would it cut off the trip? Of course Waterfront, Burrard and Grandville wouldn't have by-pass tracks, Stadium already has a outbound by-pass track in place.


The cost would be way too high compared with the advantage.


Does anyone know if they'll need to close down Granville and Burrard stations to work on the Dunsmuir tunnel when they get around to extending the platforms?

deasine
Jan 26, 2009, 3:09 AM
Is that really needed? It seems that the tunnel is really straight so it seems like we wouldn't have to realign the tracks and keep service levels disrupted as little as possible during the expansion.

eduardo88
Jan 26, 2009, 3:16 AM
Is that really needed? It seems that the tunnel is really straight so it seems like we wouldn't have to realign the tracks and keep service levels disrupted as little as possible during the expansion.

I know the tunnel is pretty much straight for the sections at the two stations, i'm just wondering if its wide enough beyond the stations to accommodate the platforms or would they need to dig to the sides, therefore shutting down that stretch of tunnel to fit machinery/reinforce the roof once they dig into the side.

Jared
Jan 26, 2009, 3:52 AM
It will probably more than 20% higher. By making the platforms wider and longer, removing barriers and enhancing exits, passenger flows to and from the train will be improved allowing lower headways and thus increasing capacity as well. Still, a lot of money.

The renovations will also make the stations nicer and safer places to be encouraging more people to use the train.

This is really only an issue for the busiest stations. There's no way Royal Oak or 29th Ave need to improve passenger circulation, there's simply never enough people on the platform for it to be an issue. I suppose most stations could use a bit of a facelift, but I'm not sure we need to spend $2B on it. Metrotown's renovation is expected to cost $25million, at that rate, we should be able to do all 20 station for about $500 million.

mr.x
Jan 26, 2009, 3:54 AM
^ Columbia needs major improvements....like holy crap, seriously that station is like a ghetto.

eduardo88
Jan 26, 2009, 3:57 AM
This is really only an issue for the busiest stations. There's no way Royal Oak or 29th Ave need to improve passenger circulation, there's simply never enough people on the platform for it to be an issue. I suppose most stations could use a bit of a facelift, but I'm not sure we need to spend $2B on it. Metrotown's renovation is expected to cost $25million, at that rate, we should be able to do all 20 station for about $500 million.

You have to remember though, that the downtown stations are probably going to cost a whole lot more than renovating metrotown, plus i bet main street and broadway stations are going to cost probably double. Still I'd say $800 million would be sufficient for everything.

Jared
Jan 26, 2009, 3:58 AM
How much would it cost to add by-pass tracks at all stations for express trains, and by adding by-pass tracks, how much time would it cut off the trip? Of course Waterfront, Burrard and Grandville wouldn't have by-pass tracks, Stadium already has a outbound by-pass track in place.

This could be very interesting, would it increase capacity, as well as decrease travel time?

You'd essentially need new stations for all places where you want the trains to stop; having them merge with the regular trains and then stopping would cause a backup.

Furthermore, building them would entail shutting down the Expo line for a significant amount of time. They managed it by building the Millenium Line wyes at Columbia by only using one track at a time, this can't be done for each station because there's simply not a switch at each end of each station. If you want some sort of express service, you should check out fever's maps in the "transit fantasy" thread, he's basically made a line that uses the central valley line from waterfront, then dives into a tunnel at the Sapperton Bar, and continues along the Interurban line.

DKaz
Jan 26, 2009, 4:43 PM
You don't need bypass tracks at every single station... just where you expect trains to pass. Normally though it's the local trains that would pull into the side track to stop in the station while express trains whiz straight through. Because Skytrain is elevated and never designed to accomodate building express trains in the first place, it would be very expensive to implement an express train system.

Hence why I recommended that a parallel at grade commuter line be built that operates in the peak hour direction only, with bypass tracks so trains can return back to Surrey and carry more passengers. It would be premium service but a more comfortable ride for commuters much like the West Coast Express, run only every say 10 minutes so it really doesn't have a serious impact on traffic, and alleviates skytrain for the general users. It would also have the advantage of being much cheaper to expand out to Langley, Abby, and beyond.

Waterfront - Broadway - Metrotown - New Westminster - Scott Road (Interurban terminus) - Surrey Central - (future expansion parallel to Fraser Hwy)

eduardo88
Jan 26, 2009, 6:08 PM
Wouldnt it make more sense just to run the interurban all the way downtown, instead of having a parallel system to skytrain and commuters from langley, abbotsford, ect have to transfer at scott road?

deasine
Jan 26, 2009, 6:46 PM
I don't see a need of any express train from Downtown to Surrey. Most of South Fraser commuters travel within their own region, or to New West, little of Burnaby, and the Tri-Cities. Wouldn't it make more sense if we spend our money and resources improving this first?

twoNeurons
Jan 26, 2009, 8:03 PM
It wouldn't strictly be Surrey -- Downtown, and there are existing tracks along the grandview cut and north of Burnaby Lake where this could happen now.

An express service from Langley to Downtown, with stops in Cloverdale, Newton, Scott Road, crossing the Fraser, with a stop at Braid, Sperling (future), Commercial, and Downtown (Pacific Central). However, I suspect that lots of people would get off at Commercial, as the transfer would be easier than Pacific Central, so this could be discouraged, if there were "gates" at stations by making the skytrain no additional charge if you're coming from the Train to a downtown station... or more simply, include the streetcar/bus with the train ticket cost and not the skytrain.

This train could also split after the Fraser to Service New West, South Vancouver, and a connection to the RAV Line.

lightrail
Jan 26, 2009, 8:25 PM
It wouldn't strictly be Surrey -- Downtown, and there are existing tracks along the grandview cut and north of Burnaby Lake where this could happen now.

An express service from Langley to Downtown, with stops in Cloverdale, Newton, Scott Road, crossing the Fraser, with a stop at Braid, Sperling (future), Commercial, and Downtown (Pacific Central). However, I suspect that lots of people would get off at Commercial, as the transfer would be easier than Pacific Central, so this could be discouraged, if there were "gates" at stations by making the skytrain no additional charge if you're coming from the Train to a downtown station... or more simply, include the streetcar/bus with the train ticket cost and not the skytrain.

This train could also split after the Fraser to Service New West, South Vancouver, and a connection to the RAV Line.

Express trains along the SkyTrain corridor are not needed. All they need to do is lengthen the trains to platform length (maybe lengthen the platforms), and if speed is an issue, they could use a "skip-stop" service, similar to some subways in New York. I don't like this system, but it works. SkyTrain Expo could run "A" and "B" trains. Sort of like this (peak hours only):

A Train - Waterfront, Burrard, Granville, Main, Broadway, Nanaimo, Patterson, Metrotown, 22nd street, New Westminster, Columbia, Scott Road, Surrey Central, King George

B Train - Waterront, Burrard, Granville, Stadium, Broadway, 29th Avenue, Joyce, Metrotown, King Edward, New Westminster, Columbia, Scott Road, Gateway, Surrey Central, King George

The problem is you can't travel between some adjacent stations with this system.

touraccuracy
Jan 26, 2009, 9:11 PM
the skytrain was fucked up in surrey today. for some reason they've shut down the westbound track from scott road to king george and everyone just has to use a shuttle going back and forth between those stations on the eastbound track. i'm still in surrey so i don't know if it's been fixed yet. didn't know where else to post this.

eduardo88
Jan 26, 2009, 9:22 PM
it seems its been running into a lot of problems lately...or is it usual for it to shut down ever once in a while?

deasine
Jan 26, 2009, 10:51 PM
It wouldn't strictly be Surrey -- Downtown, and there are existing tracks along the grandview cut and north of Burnaby Lake where this could happen now.

An express service from Langley to Downtown, with stops in Cloverdale, Newton, Scott Road, crossing the Fraser, with a stop at Braid, Sperling (future), Commercial, and Downtown (Pacific Central). However, I suspect that lots of people would get off at Commercial, as the transfer would be easier than Pacific Central, so this could be discouraged, if there were "gates" at stations by making the skytrain no additional charge if you're coming from the Train to a downtown station... or more simply, include the streetcar/bus with the train ticket cost and not the skytrain.

This train could also split after the Fraser to Service New West, South Vancouver, and a connection to the RAV Line.

The point is why not spend money where it is more needed then having to upgrade the same route.

twoNeurons
Jan 26, 2009, 11:33 PM
The point is why not spend money where it is more needed then having to upgrade the same route.

Yes, I agree. I missed the context of it being a rail line paralleling the Skytrain. I thought we were talking about a West Coast Express style Commuter-rail using existing tracks.

ravman
Jan 26, 2009, 11:35 PM
the lighting at Bway station looks nicer and softer and brighter

SpongeG
Jan 27, 2009, 1:36 AM
it seems its been running into a lot of problems lately...or is it usual for it to shut down ever once in a while?

it has issues probably once a month

it is happenning more now lately it seems

but even back in 1991 when i worked at metrotown there were times i couldn't use it or there were slow downs etc

metroXpress
Jan 27, 2009, 1:55 AM
Skystrain stations should add these barriers to their stations.
Many cities around the world has it, such as this one in London.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Westminster.tube.station.jubilee.arp.jpg

This has been planned by TransLink but I didn't hear any further
progress. Photo from Wikipedia.

officedweller
Jan 27, 2009, 1:57 AM
It can't be done because of different door spacing on the MKIs versus the MKIIs.

red-paladin
Jan 27, 2009, 3:21 AM
I think those doors are a big waste of money. I saw some in Hong Kong.
I think only like 3 people have ever been run over by a skytrain in this city.
If it is really about safety, it would make more sense to have things like that
at bus stops, where I'm sure people get run over and the side view mirror
smacks them on the side of the head all the time.

mr.x
Jan 27, 2009, 3:24 AM
I think those doors are a big waste of money. I saw some in Hong Kong.
I think only like 3 people have ever been run over by a skytrain in this city.
If it is really about safety, it would make more sense to have things like that
at bus stops, where I'm sure people get run over and the side view mirror
smacks them on the side of the head all the time.

It's actually more like 36 people that have been killed by SkyTrain. Something like 7 of those deaths were suicides, the remaining were accidents.

I think it's worth it, if only we had the same trains, as it enhances the whole security and safety image of the system. Every lil bit counts.

DKaz
Jan 27, 2009, 3:26 AM
More like 50 since skytrain first opened.

I don't think it's worth it though. Suicidal people can easily step out into fast moving traffic, or jump off an overpass, etc. If we put barriers at the stations, we're pretty much going to have to put barriers EVERYWHERE!

mr.x
Jan 27, 2009, 3:34 AM
More like 50 since skytrain first opened.

bingo, thanks for the correction!




SkyTrain's Mounting Death Toll
Experts urge platform barriers already saving lives in other cities.

By Bob Mackin, Tyee
Published: November 18, 2008

A man who fell from a wheelchair onto the tracks at Metrotown Station midday Nov. 1 is lucky to be alive. He could have become the 55th SkyTrain-related death since 1985.

According to British Columbia Coroners Service statistics obtained by 24 Hours Vancouver via freedom of information, at least 54 people have died on SkyTrain tracks and platforms. Ten deaths were accidental. The rest were suicides.

SkyTrain president Doug Kelsey said there is no plan to retrofit any Expo Line or Millennium Line platforms with barriers to stop people from falling or jumping on tracks.

Past Olympic cities like Beijing and Torino have such barriers on their new rapid transit lines, as do Hong Kong, Las Vegas, London, Paris and Singapore.

But when Canada Line opens in late 2009, its platforms will be barrier-free, like all others at existing SkyTrain stops.

'Need a solution that works': SkyTrain president

Concerns about platform safety were voiced by coroner Liana Wright in her inquiry into the May 19, 2001, suicide of a male at Royal Oak Station. She cited a 1994 SkyTrain safety review that estimated platform barriers would cost $1.7 million to $2.2 million per-station. The $40 million to $50 million system-wide estimate was deemed too expensive by SkyTrain.

"While adding safety features to all stations may not be fiscally attainable, emphasis could be placed at those sites that have higher rider usage or where there is an increased risk due to surrounding demographics," Wright recommended.

Limiting access to platforms until a train has stopped, she concluded "would virtually eliminate the possibility for individuals to jump or fall in front of oncoming trains."

Kelsey said he does not know of any platform barrier system that would work on SkyTrain, which has cars of varying ages with different door-spacings.

"You don't want to have any one incident, but you also need a solution that works," Kelsey said. "We haven't seen any solutions that work yet."

Kelsey said wider yellow tactile warning strips were added to platform edges in 2003 and lighting upgrades are bringing Expo Line stations in accordance with newer Millennium Line stations. He said SkyTrain carries 72 million riders annually.

Safer down south

Similarly large subway train systems south of the border report far lower death rates.

Last year, there were five SkyTrain-related deaths. There was not a single death reported on a right-of-way or platform, stop or waiting area in Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, San Francisco or Washington, D.C. Single suicide deaths were reported only on the L.A. and Staten Island systems.

In 2006, there were two SkyTrain-related deaths. No right-of-way death was reported in the U.S., though Boston, Chicago and Miami each had one platform/stop/waiting area death. There were four suicides, all on-platform in Washington, D.C.

In January of this year, Premier Gordon Campbell pledged $10.3 billion for rapid transit expansion to 2020. Transportation minister Kevin Falcon did not respond to repeated interview requests from 24 Hours. His ministry website said it is "committed to... innovative, forward-thinking transportation strategies that move people and goods safely throughout B.C."

"The negligent manner in the way the Liberals have been dealing with issues has amounted to nothing less than assisted suicide by government," said Canadian Union of Public Employees' local 7000 president Gerry Cunningham.

Cunningham said transit workers are trained to spot intoxicated or distressed passengers, but admits they can't be everywhere at all times. He said counselling is available to workers affected by the deadly incidents. Some workers have taken leaves of absence.

"Once someone has expired, [staff] have to call emergency services, police, fire, paramedics," Cunningham said. "From that point on, stations are closed and quite a routine has to happen. Buses have to attend the station in order to transport passengers coming off the trains or entering that area, and need to get to their destination. There is quite a job that takes place."

Stay alert says SkyTrain chief

"The solution is for people to remember that any place close to tracks where an onrushing train is liable to arrive at any time is a place to be aware of their surroundings," Kelsey wrote in a subsequent letter to 24 Hours. "Again, this is not dissimilar to our city streets. Stay well back from the yellow tactile strip -- it's not just for the visually impaired. Wait until the train has come to a full stop before boarding."

But that advice couldn't have saved one Surrey man who died en route to his downtown Vancouver office on April 23, 2003.

The man, whose name was censored in a B.C. Coroners Service report released to 24 Hours, awoke from a nap and exited a SkyTrain car at Stadium Station. Closed circuit TV cameras showed he walked briskly toward the eastbound side of the platform, suddenly collapsed and fell forward into the track area below.

Sensors tripped the emergency brakes on the approaching train. The man was motionless for a second, sat up and tried to climb out of the guideway. He was struck as the train came to a screeching halt and trapped under the lead wheel closest to the platform.

Firefighters manually pushed the train westbound, but the man was dead on the scene at 8:38 a.m.

He suffered crushing injuries to his abdomen. Coroner Colin Harris ruled the death accidental by mechanical asphyxia. An undiagnosed heart ailment apparently contributed to the collapse. The man tested negative for drugs and alcohol.

Montreal train suicide attempts studied

"As for suicides, even if there was a barrier along a SkyTrain platform, they may sadly find other means," Kelsey wrote.

But one of the world's top suicide researchers said two-thirds of people who try to kill themselves in the Montreal subway do not die.

University of Quebec at Montreal Prof. Brian Mishara, president of the International Association for Suicide Prevention, said distraught people may choose against ending their lives if they knew that suicide via rapid transit is neither quick nor painless.

"Those that did die often died after a lot of pain and anguish and not immediately," Mishara said. "Those who survived were very often severely handicapped."

Many files released to 24 Hours by the B.C. Coroners Service concur with Mishara. Two were especially horrific.

Firemen cut a hole in a SkyTrain car floor to help a man who dived in front of a train on July 3, 1989 at Stadium Station. His upper right arm was ripped off, flesh torn from his lower left leg and left thigh bone shattered. He died eight hours later in Vancouver General Hospital.

Emergency crews found another man conscious under a SkyTrain at Main Street Station just four days later. His left arm was severed below the shoulder, left leg and right ankle broken, ribs crushed, skull fractured and lungs lacerated. He eventually died.

'High cost for society'

Mishara's Railway and Metro Suicides: Understanding the Problem and Prevention Potential study found deaths on tracks constitute four to eight per cent of suicides in most countries, but "they have an extremely high cost for society." Hundreds or thousands of passengers are inconvenienced and witnesses and train personnel are traumatized.

"Very often a person is not dead, they're alive and screaming and this is not pleasant to witness," he said.

Obvious surveillance cameras, improved lighting, prompt intervention during an attempt and suspended-rail "suicide pits" can help prevent such suicides, he said.

Platform barriers are the solution, but many in the industry consider them "financially untenable," he said.

The federal government granted TransLink almost $10 million under the Transit-Secure program in 2006, but those funds are strictly for anti-terrorism measures. Not one of the 54 deaths recorded by the B.C. Coroners Service in the past 23 years was terrorism-related.

jlousa
Jan 27, 2009, 3:34 AM
Almost all of them have been suicides, not accidents, pretty sure you have your numbers swamped.

I see you found an article that confirms my thoughts.

deasine
Jan 27, 2009, 3:56 AM
I rather spend money on expanding our infrastructure. Those doors are cool, but not needed... especially in Vancouver. I know Broadway STN gets busy, but not to a point where I will get pushed off the platform (I'm talking about regular days, not snow days). Once our system gets that busy, we should then think about installing these things.

Locked In
Jan 27, 2009, 4:40 AM
Platform doors are pretty cool, but.... there have been 10 accidental deaths since the system opened 23 years ago? Someone on here will know approximately how many rides have been taken in those 23 years... however many tens of millions it is, the odds of someone falling to their death on the Skytrain tracks must be absolutely minuscule. From a cost-benefit perspective, not nearly high enough to justify the millions and millions that platform doors will cost to install and maintain IMO.