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Sheba
Mar 25, 2018, 4:28 PM
I feel like many riders my choose to take the Canada Line into Downtown instead, not good for crowding.

There are likely to be a lot more people who will bypass Downtown Van as they won't need to travel there to transfer between Skytrain lines - they'll be able to do it at Broadway-City Hall instead.

aberdeen5698
Mar 25, 2018, 4:37 PM
then there are the VIA Rail trains, Seattle bound trains and Mountaineer as well.
And The Canadian (https://youtu.be/EUhO5i3Hlxk) thrice weekly...

Reecemartin
Mar 25, 2018, 9:46 PM
And The Canadian (https://youtu.be/EUhO5i3Hlxk) thrice weekly...

The Canadian is the VIA rail train being referred to. I wouldn't be surprised if it was cancelled for most of the year though given that VIA seems completely fine with operating it more than 10+ hours late on a regular basis, and the trains aren't up for renewal.

Reecemartin
Mar 25, 2018, 9:48 PM
There are likely to be a lot more people who will bypass Downtown Van as they won't need to travel there to transfer between Skytrain lines - they'll be able to do it at Broadway-City Hall instead.

Hence the issue with what already is looking to be quite an under built connection.

casper
Mar 25, 2018, 11:19 PM
The Canadian is the VIA rail train being referred to. I wouldn't be surprised if it was cancelled for most of the year though given that VIA seems completely fine with operating it more than 10+ hours late on a regular basis, and the trains aren't up for renewal.

If you have ever been on the train, it is obvious there is a lot of slack in the scheduled. Spend an entire day in Winnipeg refueling. Jasper is a few hours.

Reecemartin
Mar 26, 2018, 3:51 PM
If you have ever been on the train, it is obvious there is a lot of slack in the scheduled. Spend an entire day in Winnipeg refueling. Jasper is a few hours.

The slack has increased, it serves virtually no practical purpose as a method of transportation. The Canadian is very much on its last legs.

aberdeen5698
Mar 26, 2018, 11:11 PM
The slack has increased, it serves virtually no practical purpose as a method of transportation. The Canadian is very much on its last legs.
It's been a tourist train for decades now, and the trains are considerably longer and fuller now than they were in 1955 when it was first launched. Over the last couple of years they've been renovating some of the cars to provide more luxurious staterooms at even higher prices. I strongly doubt it's going anywhere soon.

mr.A
Mar 26, 2018, 11:18 PM
Please get back to the topic! Skytrain Renovations. Thank's

Metro-One
Mar 29, 2018, 5:19 AM
So, in regards to the overhead walkway fiasco in Metrotown (or in better words, the bizarre lack there of) I was just in Kitakyushi City last week for a work event.

While there I decided to take a bunch of pictures on how the Japanese integrate major stations into the urban surroundings.

While it is not perfect, I do wish that Metrotown (and other stations) would at least adopt a couple of these aspects.

Sp, this is Kokura Station, the main station for an urban area with a population just under 1 million.

First, inside the station. Large and grande.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/895/39255993080_dc2dc4542b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22NVe5U)Inside Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/22NVe5U) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

One of the several entrances. Please note the width!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/899/40171457765_9cacf954c0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24cPdQM)Kokura Station Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/24cPdQM) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

Looking out the south exit. Look at the elevated mono rail running down the middle of an urban street! (Something that will scare those in Surrey especially). Also note that those are all elevated walkways.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/871/40355830464_3c1bca1154_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u7bqq)Kokura Station Monorail (https://flic.kr/p/24u7bqq) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

Numerous elevated walkways connect the station to surrounding shopping centres / streets while having roads / a major bus depot / taxi depot / bike parking below them.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/789/40355813644_2c98cc9f6e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u76qq)Downtown Kitakyushu (https://flic.kr/p/24u76qq) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/872/40355822524_d3482725cd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u794w)Outside Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/24u794w) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/792/40355827364_8b65c84d5d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u7auY)Outside Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/24u7auY) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/795/40171460385_7046ddf5c3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24cPeBX)Kokura Station Monorail (https://flic.kr/p/24cPeBX) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

This one leads right into the cities entertainment district. Please not the multi story buildings with countless bars , restaurants and clubs. Not everything is on the first floor and many of these establishments only fit up to 10 people, making them far more interesting in character than the huge industrial style run bars and clubs in Vancouver. Also note all the signs. This area gets bright and funky at night.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/784/40355818504_92f434e361_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u77Sd)Kitakyushu (https://flic.kr/p/24u77Sd) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

This walkway is on the north side of the station, connecting it to several conference centres and major hotels, and it runs above a major street and even has airport style moving walkways!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/886/40171522145_4b59556dea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24cPxYM)Walkways near Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/24cPxYM) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

Personally for the Metrotown area I would love to see something between what they are proposing and what is depicted in my pics above.

Also note the foot traffic was light at this time because it was mid afternoon. Rush hour is a very different story. And the street life around the station (such as the entertainment zone) is very very active, and hasn't been "killed" by such walkways, especially on the south side.

Firebrand
Mar 29, 2018, 5:31 AM
So, in regards to the overhead walkway fiasco in Metrotown (or in better words, the bizarre lack there of) I was just in Kitakyushi City last week for a work event.

While there I decided to take a bunch of pictures on how the Japanese integrate major stations into the urban surroundings.

While it is not perfect, I do wish that Metrotown (and other stations) would at least adopt a couple of these aspects.

Sp, this is Kokura Station, the main station for an urban area with a population just under 1 million.

First, inside the station. Large and grande.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/895/39255993080_dc2dc4542b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22NVe5U)Inside Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/22NVe5U) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

One of the several entrances. Please note the width!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/899/40171457765_9cacf954c0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24cPdQM)Kokura Station Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/24cPdQM) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

Looking out the south exit. Look at the elevated mono rail running down the middle of an urban street! (Something that will scare those in Surrey especially). Also note that those are all elevated walkways.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/871/40355830464_3c1bca1154_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u7bqq)Kokura Station Monorail (https://flic.kr/p/24u7bqq) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

Numerous elevated walkways connect the station to surrounding shopping centres / streets while having roads / a major bus depot / taxi depot / bike parking below them.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/789/40355813644_2c98cc9f6e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u76qq)Downtown Kitakyushu (https://flic.kr/p/24u76qq) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/872/40355822524_d3482725cd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u794w)Outside Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/24u794w) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/792/40355827364_8b65c84d5d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u7auY)Outside Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/24u7auY) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/795/40171460385_7046ddf5c3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24cPeBX)Kokura Station Monorail (https://flic.kr/p/24cPeBX) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

This one leads right into the cities entertainment district. Please not the multi story buildings with countless bars , restaurants and clubs. Not everything is on the first floor and many of these establishments only fit up to 10 people, making them far more interesting in character than the huge industrial style run bars and clubs in Vancouver. Also note all the signs. This area gets bright and funky at night.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/784/40355818504_92f434e361_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24u77Sd)Kitakyushu (https://flic.kr/p/24u77Sd) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

This walkway is on the north side of the station, connecting it to several conference centres and major hotels, and it runs above a major street and even has airport style moving walkways!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/886/40171522145_4b59556dea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24cPxYM)Walkways near Kokura Station (https://flic.kr/p/24cPxYM) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

Personally for the Metrotown area I would love to see something between what they are proposing and what is depicted in my pics above.

Also note the foot traffic was light at this time because it was mid afternoon. Rush hour is a very different story. And the street life around the station (such as the entertainment zone) is very very active, and hasn't been "killed" by such walkways, especially on the south side.

I really like how the design and infrastructure is implemented around these stations.

Unfortunately, Corrigan will have a different view looking at these pictures.

CanSpice
Mar 29, 2018, 4:22 PM
So, in regards to the overhead walkway fiasco in Metrotown (or in better words, the bizarre lack there of) I was just in Kitakyushi City last week for a work event.

While there I decided to take a bunch of pictures on how the Japanese integrate major stations into the urban surroundings.

While it is not perfect, I do wish that Metrotown (and other stations) would at least adopt a couple of these aspects.

I think the station that might come close to this is New Westminster, but that's a long way from what you've shown us here. I think it's a great vision for how our more transit-oriented development stations (Metrotown, New West, Brentwood, Lougheed, Surrey Central, and maybe Lincoln in 50 years) can become.

Vin
Mar 29, 2018, 4:27 PM
And these are only Monorail stations, and not even the highly-regarded Shinkansen Stations. Also note how nicely things are maintained in Japan.

kaitoe
Mar 29, 2018, 5:23 PM
The width of the canopies on the walkways would be great for rainy days, and they're all fitted with solar panels too.

WBC
Mar 29, 2018, 6:09 PM
I think the station that might come close to this is New Westminster, but that's a long way from what you've shown us here. I think it's a great vision for how our more transit-oriented development stations (Metrotown, New West, Brentwood, Lougheed, Surrey Central, and maybe Lincoln in 50 years) can become.

When Metrotown station renos where announced I was hoping the design would be at least driven towards something that New West Station was transformed into. Compared to Japan we are bush league in terms of station integration and design (although I do like our SkyTrain technology with automation).

The new Metrotown station does look nice and grand compared to the old one, but it is now even less integrated then before...It looks so sterile, sitting in the middle between things...It's just sad that this opportunity was missed for probably the next 20-30 years...

Vancity
Mar 29, 2018, 7:01 PM
When Metrotown station renos where announced I was hoping the design would be at least driven towards something that New West Station was transformed into. Compared to Japan we are bush league in terms of station integration and design (although I do like our SkyTrain technology with automation).

The new Metrotown station does look nice and grand compared to the old one, but it is now even less integrated then before...It looks so sterile, sitting in the middle between things...It's just sad that this opportunity was missed for probably the next 20-30 years...

This is Vancouver, they're always going to be short-sighted. That hasn't changed EVER. There is no vision for transit, and the business side of things is terrible in this province. We compare to Asia and dream to have our transit stations be more incorporated like places in Japan, but I don't think that'll ever happen in Van. Not for a long, long, long, long time.

Migrant_Coconut
Mar 30, 2018, 12:25 AM
^ Pretty much - our politicians may dream of Manhattan, but their worldview is still firmly stuck in Kelowna.

TransitJack
Mar 30, 2018, 2:41 AM
This forum is really about discussion rather than complaining.

Meaningful posts go a long way versus endless rants :shrug:

I can totally understand your frustration about how some of our transit investments are low in magnitude. Since this city is still very car-centric and since convincing the majority that transit investment should trump catering to continued outward growth that relies on the automobile isn't in our best interests is difficult we can partially understand why our system is what it is.

That being said, let's use the forum to discuss these decisions critically and offer solutions and potentials, maybe find the small things to celebrate rather than posts that simply complain. A lot of s have enjoyed this forum for a long time because of the various opinions and comparisons offered.

What is really cool at the moment is a massive investment in transit happening right now, and tremendous ridership growth. We could be at a tipping point now that shifts investment more in favour of transit oriented development :D

SpongeG
Mar 30, 2018, 5:30 AM
Lougheed TC will be ok if it goes to plan, with the overpasses, retail and elevated walkways etc.

http://shapeproperties.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/gallery-lougheed-06.jpg
shapeproperties.com

MIPS
Mar 30, 2018, 6:23 AM
That took a few seconds to register what I was looking at.

That is one hell of an ambitious concept.

Migrant_Coconut
Mar 30, 2018, 6:30 AM
(stands and applauds) Now THAT is good street planning... though would it be possible to put a SkyTrain entrance & mezzanine and the elevated street on the same level?

Mac Write
Mar 30, 2018, 7:16 AM
If you notice that is light rail and not SkyTrain (the photo is from when the Evergreen line was going to be LRT. Though it does show the new Livery. so I would say the photo is 12-15yrs old.

Meraki
Mar 30, 2018, 7:35 AM
If you notice that is light rail and not SkyTrain (the photo is from when the Evergreen line was going to be LRT. Though it does show the new Livery. so I would say the photo is 12-15yrs old.

The pillars of the guideway are missing, but that's just artistic style. It's not old, or LRT. It's clearly their current plan for Lougheed. http://shapeproperties.com/projects/the-city-of-lougheed/

jollyburger
Mar 30, 2018, 8:38 AM
The pillars of the guideway are missing, but that's just artistic style. It's not old, or LRT. It's clearly their current plan for Lougheed. http://shapeproperties.com/projects/the-city-of-lougheed/

There's one pillar on the far right and the perspective would explain why most of them don't appear in the image. To say it's a 12 year old photo is nuts. :D

Mac Write
Mar 30, 2018, 10:05 AM
Looking at the drawing of the train as well as the tracks for the station tell me that it's a separate station for LRT from the current Lougheed station. Look at the top of the train it has power collectors for over-head wires.

aberdeen5698
Mar 30, 2018, 5:36 PM
...would it be possible to put a SkyTrain entrance & mezzanine and the elevated street on the same level?
Yeah, going down escalators to ground level and then back up stairs or other escalators to the passerelle is just nuts.

Migrant_Coconut
Mar 30, 2018, 6:51 PM
Looking at the drawing of the train as well as the tracks for the station tell me that it's a separate station for LRT from the current Lougheed station. Look at the top of the train it has power collectors for over-head wires.

Those black things? Seems more like a stylistic choice - the rest of the train looks like a Mark II.

Yeah, going down escalators to ground level and then back up stairs or other escalators to the passerelle is just nuts.

You said it. Grade separation should be more convenient for people, not less.

Reecemartin
Mar 30, 2018, 7:06 PM
Frankly this as well as Brentwood are fantastic. As much as I like the idea of the overhead crossing at Metrotown, part of me feels like having people go through the street network rather than right into the mall can be beneficial. I know I for one have explored the area around the station much more now that I'm forced to ground level. If only we could get a long and very wide crosswalk and rearrange the bus loop more then Metrotown can still be great!

flipper316
Mar 30, 2018, 8:09 PM
Frankly this as well as Brentwood are fantastic. As much as I like the idea of the overhead crossing at Metrotown, part of me feels like having people go through the street network rather than right into the mall can be beneficial. I know I for one have explored the area around the station much more now that I'm forced to ground level. If only we could get a long and very wide crosswalk and rearrange the bus loop more then Metrotown can still be great!

There's nothing to explore there. Some old apartments that are on their last legs waiting to be demolished. New sterile condos most metro Vancouver residents can't afford and a sterile mall streetscape.

Reecemartin
Mar 31, 2018, 2:31 PM
There's nothing to explore there. Some old apartments that are on their last legs waiting to be demolished. New sterile condos most metro Vancouver residents can't afford and a sterile mall streetscape.

Wow, your attitude seems to explain why you can't enjoy a stroll along the street...

Theres lots to explore all across the region but, if you look at it like this you will never enjoy it.

Migrant_Coconut
Mar 31, 2018, 8:10 PM
Wow, your attitude seems to explain why you can't enjoy a stroll along the street...

Theres lots to explore all across the region but, if you look at it like this you will never enjoy it.

But we're talking about Metrotown here, and flipper's absolutely right. See for yourself - bus loop and the mall (all on the second floor) on one side, empty grass walkway and apartments on the other. No street network, definitely nothing to explore, 99% of the reason for the station's existence is for people to get in and out of the mall. That necessitates an overpass.

Reecemartin
Mar 31, 2018, 11:52 PM
But we're talking about Metrotown here, and flipper's absolutely right. See for yourself - bus loop and the mall (all on the second floor) on one side, empty grass walkway and apartments on the other. No street network, definitely nothing to explore, 99% of the reason for the station's existence is for people to get in and out of the mall. That necessitates an overpass.

Have you ever actually walked more than a block or two from Metrotown? (Very much in the station catchment) The way you say it is sounds like Metrotown exists on an island with nothing but ocean surrounding it.

It surprises me that walking through different neighborhoods etc. isn't considered exploring by so many on here.

Anyways lets bring the conversation back to Station Upgrades.

Aroundtheworld
Apr 1, 2018, 1:41 AM
Have you ever actually walked more than a block or two from Metrotown? (Very much in the station catchment) The way you say it is sounds like Metrotown exists on an island with nothing but ocean surrounding it.

It surprises me that walking through different neighborhoods etc. isn't considered exploring by so many on here.

Anyways lets bring the conversation back to Station Upgrades.

I agree with you. Metrotown is improving with new developments south of the station and ones like Station Square which are much better urban design-wise than previous developments. It still has a ways to go, but it's on its way to becoming a nice, urban neighbourhood.

Migrant_Coconut
Apr 1, 2018, 5:52 AM
I agree with you. Metrotown is improving with new developments south of the station and ones like Station Square which are much better urban design-wise than previous developments. It still has a ways to go, but it's on its way to becoming a nice, urban neighbourhood.

Do you mean north of the station? Getting to the library, Crystal Mall or all the retail and restaurants on Kingsway requires you to walk either around or through Metrotown - removing the overpass only makes things more difficult in the case of the latter.

South of the station, there's a total of three mixed-use 'rises, a Jinya, pharmacy/clinic and gym across the road, and some retail where Central meets Imperial. The rest is a mix of condos and walk-ups - I've been to McKay Avenue to pick up a pair of headphones, and there is really nothing to see there.

Waders
Apr 1, 2018, 7:24 AM
Do you mean north of the station? Getting to the library, Crystal Mall or all the retail and restaurants on Kingsway requires you to walk either around or through Metrotown - removing the overpass only makes things more difficult in the case of the latter.

South of the station, there's a total of three mixed-use 'rises, a Jinya, pharmacy/clinic and gym across the road, and some retail where Central meets Imperial. The rest is a mix of condos and walk-ups - I've been to McKay Avenue to pick up a pair of headphones, and there is really nothing to see there.
Ya, it is very quiet south of the station. Most passengers only travel between the station and the mall/bus loop.
After the east station house was opened, more passengers use the east entrance to go to the mall. Cars coming out from the mall underground parkade are now 'fighting' for road priority with pedestrians.
'

SpongeG
Apr 1, 2018, 8:15 AM
you don't have to walk through metrotown to get to crystal mall or the library

Shift
Apr 18, 2018, 1:32 AM
Surrey Central - Apr 17:

https://i.imgur.com/bTbIwCt.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/gEvz2ge.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/lMaj2rZ.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/2IumTzx.jpg?1

officedweller
Apr 18, 2018, 4:04 AM
Thanks.
That was fast!

Waders
Apr 18, 2018, 5:17 AM
The new Surrey station North Station House is designed by the same company who designed the new Joyce station east station house.
I can see similar wooden ceiling and black steel beam is being used.

officedweller
Apr 28, 2018, 5:44 AM
Hey... look what I found at the Fast + Epp website:

Burrard Station 2nd Entrance

Note the separate banks of faregates in the tunnels to/from the elevators.

http://fastepp.com/media/djmediatools/cache/750x500-crop-90-images_slideshows_burrardstation_2_burrardstation.jpg
Addition of second entrance to existing station on the east side of Burrard Street via a new 6-storey
below-grade vertical shaft and horizontal tunnel in order to connect to the existing station concourse and platform levels.
http://fastepp.com/index.php/en/projects/current/burrard-skytrain-station-upgrades


This is the existing schematic taken from the RFP docs:

https://i.imgur.com/SWufuxB.jpg

Sheba
Apr 28, 2018, 6:14 AM
I received an 'occupant' letter in the mail from TransLink - they're going to start repainting Edmonds Station.

I got another occupant letter from TransLink: "However due to scheduling conflicts, the painting work will not take place this year. ... we have planned to do some minor cleaning work at the station..."

Meraki
Apr 28, 2018, 6:16 AM
So they're installing 6 new elevators to replace the existing one, pretty much?

Mac Write
Apr 28, 2018, 12:31 PM
No not a replacement in addition.

officedweller
Apr 28, 2018, 8:29 PM
They are adding 6 elevators because there isn't space to add escalators on that side of Burrard Street (because of the Park Place office building).

Presumably, they need 6 elevators to provide the same throughput as 2 or 3 escalators.

MIPS
Apr 28, 2018, 9:10 PM
The fact that park place has absolutely no interest renovating a sub basement to fit escalators or even the lobby for another station entrance that has been proposed since the early 80's baffles me.

Just throwing in a bunch of elevators seems like such a stupid solution. Who the hell is going to wait for an elevator (excluding those who NEED an elevator) when you can cross the street?

officedweller
Apr 28, 2018, 10:15 PM
The fact that park place has absolutely no interest renovating a sub basement to fit escalators or even the lobby for another station entrance that has been proposed since the early 80's baffles me.

Just throwing in a bunch of escalators seems like such a stupid solution. Who the hell is going to wait for an elevator (excluding those who NEED an elevator) when you can cross the street?

You'd think that they'd benefit from a lobby or entrance from the Hornby side of their building
- but there's not much retail space below Park Place to begin with.
QuadReal is the building manager - not sure if they own it (or if they own part of it).
It could be that the building is owns by a consortium that can't agree.

The elevator may actually be faster than walking over and going down 3 flights.
AND... I just realized that there is only one UP escalator from the outbound platform to the inbound/faregate level.
For those EXITING the station and heading east, the elevators may be faster if you are on that end of the platform.

Burrard Station 2nd Entrance

Note the separate banks of faregates in the tunnels to/from the elevators.

http://fastepp.com/media/djmediatools/cache/750x500-crop-90-images_slideshows_burrardstation_2_burrardstation.jpg
Addition of second entrance to existing station on the east side of Burrard Street via a new 6-storey
below-grade vertical shaft and horizontal tunnel in order to connect to the existing station concourse and platform levels.
http://fastepp.com/index.php/en/projects/current/burrard-skytrain-station-upgrades

jollyburger
Apr 28, 2018, 10:45 PM
Just to clarify, even if they went through Park Place that would doesn't mean they could fit in escalators?

deasine
May 1, 2018, 3:47 AM
I'd reckon the elevator operation would be very similar to Heathrow Terminal 5 with their automated lifts, which go between floors automatically timing with train arrivals to reduce congestion and wait times.

Meraki
May 1, 2018, 5:37 AM
I'd reckon the elevator operation would be very similar to Heathrow Terminal 5 with their automated lifts, which go between floors automatically timing with train arrivals to reduce congestion and wait times.

I'm not so sure. The 4 new elevators at Metrotown aren't synchronized or connected in any way.

At least in a proper building you'd only need to push one call button. I can maybe understand the two outer ones, but the middle two should definitely be operating together and they aren't.

officedweller
May 9, 2018, 1:26 AM
Granville Station's super-tall escalators completely closed for next 24 months
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-granville-station-escalator-replacement-entrance-closure

https://i.imgur.com/3dNME4U.jpg

E-PVr62UDuY

Shift
May 9, 2018, 1:55 AM
^Never use them anyway. It's faster to get out using the new Dunsmuir side - even if you're going to the Granville exit.

mcminsen
May 9, 2018, 4:53 AM
Granville Station's super-tall escalators completely closed for next 24 months
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-granville-station-escalator-replacement-entrance-closure





Oy....

Well, thanks for the heads up. I use that Seymour entrance a lot but I guess I should start getting in the habit of going to Stadium - Chinatown station instead. It's actually about the same distance from my apartment. It will also free me up from having to traverse either Homer, Richards or Seymour between Robson and Georgia. Each of those blocks have pedestrian flow issues for the foreseeable future.

SpongeG
May 9, 2018, 5:09 AM
why 2 years? that's a ridiculous timeline.

Spork
May 9, 2018, 5:12 AM
They are building them in place rather than building elsewhere and assembling on site. It seems a bit long to me too, but given how installation even takes 6 months, 2 years isn't inconceivable given how slow any other construction project goes around here.

dpogue
May 9, 2018, 5:53 AM
why 2 years? that's a ridiculous timeline.

If they were installing a new escalator as part of a new station, I'd agree, but this is removing and reinstalling 3 escalators in an existing station, underground, in confined spaces. Each of the escalators has to have its parts custom built to fit, and they can only work on one of the escalators at a time.

When London replaced one of the escalators in their underground stations, it took 10 months.

jollyburger
May 9, 2018, 5:57 AM
^Never use them anyway. It's faster to get out using the new Dunsmuir side - even if you're going to the Granville exit.

Won't be faster when all the people from the other escalators have to use it. :D

Mac Write
May 9, 2018, 4:44 PM
Can't they remove and install the escalators in modules via the rail tunnel? The crane would be interesting to put it in place.

officedweller
May 9, 2018, 6:04 PM
... and work within a 4 hour window each night? That would stretch the timeline out for many more years.

Tetsuo
May 9, 2018, 6:16 PM
That sucks for Compass' group's food operation leasing from HBC, no way they'll be able to survive

cganuelas1995
May 9, 2018, 6:23 PM
... and work within a 4 hour window each night? That would stretch the timeline out for many more years.

Or they could single track it at nights. But that would still stretch it out.

Prometheus
May 9, 2018, 7:10 PM
It took only one year to build the Empire State Building.

WBC
May 9, 2018, 7:26 PM
It took only one year to build the Empire State Building.

Yup, but that job was definitely not managed by Translink :) This sound crazy, but then again I witnessed a Burrard escalator being out of service for 8-9 months for "repairs".

Luckily there is a second entrance to this station...Otherwise, I do not know what the plan would be. Close the station?

Tetsuo
May 9, 2018, 8:11 PM
Yup, but that job was definitely not managed by Translink :) This sound crazy, but then again I witnessed a Burrard escalator being out of service for 8-9 months for "repairs".

Luckily there is a second entrance to this station...Otherwise, I do not know what the plan would be. Close the station?

Open up the staircase like they did for Burrard a few years back.

Although with Granville that would be quite a bit of exercise :runaway:

LeftCoaster
May 9, 2018, 9:01 PM
Yup, but that job was definitely not managed by Translink :) This sound crazy, but then again I witnessed a Burrard escalator being out of service for 8-9 months for "repairs".

Luckily there is a second entrance to this station...Otherwise, I do not know what the plan would be. Close the station?

it's not Translink, it's the elevator companies and the unions associated with them.

Just ask any commercial landlord their thoughts on Otis, Theissen etc... and you'll hear new curse words you never knew existed.

WBC
May 10, 2018, 1:12 AM
it's not Translink, it's the elevator companies and the unions associated with them.

Just ask any commercial landlord their thoughts on Otis, Theissen etc... and you'll hear new curse words you never knew existed.

Yup - if you have a kid with no clear career choice just suggest elevator or escalator repairman and let the gravy train roll... :)

Metro-One
May 10, 2018, 2:28 AM
it's not Translink, it's the elevator companies and the unions associated with them.

Just ask any commercial landlord their thoughts on Otis, Theissen etc... and you'll hear new curse words you never knew existed.

Haha, my brother repairs elevators for Fujitech.

He did the elevators at Shanghai-La

jsbertram
May 10, 2018, 2:55 AM
Granville Station's super-tall escalators completely closed for next 24 months
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-granville-station-escalator-replacement-entrance-closure

https://i.imgur.com/3dNME4U.jpg

E-PVr62UDuY

are they also gonna repair or replace the escalator from the magazine stand level to the lower level (outbound) trains?


that escalator has also been running for almost 35 years too

might as well, if this expo-era section of the station is going to be completely shut down to passengers

MIPS
May 10, 2018, 7:28 PM
I gotta say, whoever TransLink paid to make that short, PLEASE pay them to make more. The animations were fantastic. It felt like a Röyksopp music video.

officedweller
May 10, 2018, 8:25 PM
are they also gonna repair or replace the escalator from the magazine stand level to the lower level (outbound) trains?


that escalator has also been running for almost 35 years too

might as well, if this expo-era section of the station is going to be completely shut down to passengers

The newspaper said that 6 escalators would be replaced, so I think, so, yes.

idunno
May 10, 2018, 8:50 PM
I gotta say, whoever TransLink paid to make that short, PLEASE pay them to make more. The animations were fantastic. It felt like a Röyksopp music video.

Translink's PR efforts have really taken an upturn over the last few years!

jsbertram
May 10, 2018, 11:07 PM
lets hope it also gets a major cleaning too while its closed

especially the roof over the escalator bank. it looks like my furnace filter after a long, stuffy winter

Mac Write
May 11, 2018, 12:20 AM
Hopefully they will re-tile the escalators so that the tiles are horizontal vs at the same angle as the escalators. They could do allot of work on the station with this down time. Lets hope they take advantage of it.

jollyburger
May 11, 2018, 5:04 AM
Hopefully they will re-tile the escalators so that the tiles are horizontal vs at the same angle as the escalators. They could do allot of work on the station with this down time. Lets hope they take advantage of it.

3 year closure. :notacrook:

BCPhil
May 11, 2018, 6:39 AM
It took only one year to build the Empire State Building.

How about a more reasonable comparison:

It only took around 2 and a half years to build and test all 21km and stations of the original Expo line, including Granville station.

Which means they managed to expand the rail tunnel, build the platforms, and build the escalator tunnel/foundation, and install the escalators probably in less than 2 years. All under existing buildings in the same "space constraints" they are talking about now (hence why they were unable to install an elevator).

But it takes 2 years just to install new escalators?

officedweller
May 11, 2018, 7:47 AM
All under existing buildings in the same "space constraints" they are talking about now (hence why they were unable to install an elevator).


The Granville Station ticketing hall was an open pit excavation in the middle of Seymour Street.
It's conceivable that the original escalators were installed in assembled form, but I don't know.

On this cross-section, you can see the ticketing hall and escalators (marked by dashed lines) are directly under Seymour Street:
http://www.via-architecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Granville-Station-Section.jpg
http://www.via-architecture.com/project/granville-station/

They were unable to install an elevator because the land directly above the platform was not available (other than, say, by expropriation) and the ticketing hall was so offset from the platforms that excessive excavation would have been necessary.
When the Hudson was built, they were excavating for the parkade, so it became feasible.

jollyburger
May 11, 2018, 8:49 AM
SkyTrain Access: When the Granville Street SkyTrain Station was being designed in 1984, it was assumed that when the Bramalea development went ahead, it would include a universal access ("handicapped access") to the station. The station has since lacked a universal access. During the development application process for Site A as noted above, Translink asked Macdonald Development Corporation to reconsider their plans to increase the scope of the proposed development to enable inclusion of much deeper underground parking (two levels was then proposed) thereby making it possible to create a desired connection to the station. Macdonald Development Corporation agreed, and entered into a public-private partnership with Translink "to provide the handicapped and enhanced access requirements to the Granville Station through a revised and expanded design".

http://council.vancouver.ca/020611/p2.htm

officedweller
May 11, 2018, 10:12 PM
Nice find!
Thanks.

For reference, Bramalea / Trilea (a big developer like Cadillac Fairview) owned all the parcels on the remainder of the Hudson's Bay block and the block to the north (except the CIBC Building, now Sophos & Shoppers) - ending at Pender.

The plan was to build another downtown mall with Hudson's Bay at the south end and a new Woodward's department store on the north end.

In the early/mid (?) 1990s, the City rejected the development application.

The parcels were subsequently sold off piecemeal - Hudson site, St. Regis & Gotham sites, another to BCIT and the heritage buildings on Pender to others.

Note this from the report - i.e. this is why we don't have a PATH system.

Underground Retail: The proposal includes one floor of underground retail through which a second access to the SkyTrain Station is available from Granville Street near the Bay. The Central Area Plan generally discourages underground retail except for small amounts to serve the employees of major office buildings. The exception to this policy is that underground links with limited retail should be permitted from rapid transit stations. This exception is intended to generally maintain the public streets as downtown's pedestrian routes, while providing added convenience for transit users and additional pedestrian capacity closest to stations where heavy pedestrian traffic is anticipated.
http://council.vancouver.ca/020611/p2.htm

mcminsen
May 12, 2018, 11:15 AM
Commercial - Broadway Station as seen from E. 10th Avenue, Broadway, Commercial Drive and then finally the lower platform in the ravine.



May 11 '18, my pics
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/VRXn1r.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnVRXn1rj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/tB2dAK.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/potB2dAKj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/7p33lE.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/po7p33lEj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/Ht0VLO.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmHt0VLOj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/kRI3Lq.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pokRI3Lqj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/UINKUa.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poUINKUaj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/RysYo8.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnRysYo8j)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/5ZBnMi.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn5ZBnMij)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/MDBZeA.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poMDBZeAj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/G3dxvY.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmG3dxvYj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/Yrgi5a.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmYrgi5aj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/9KT6PR.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn9KT6PRj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/nq2PIA.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmnq2PIAj)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/5TQSfU.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/po5TQSfUj)

BCPhil
May 12, 2018, 9:45 PM
The Granville Station ticketing hall was an open pit excavation in the middle of Seymour Street.
It's conceivable that the original escalators were installed in assembled form, but I don't know.

On this cross-section, you can see the ticketing hall and escalators (marked by dashed lines) are directly under Seymour Street:
http://www.via-architecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Granville-Station-Section.jpg
http://www.via-architecture.com/project/granville-station/

They were unable to install an elevator because the land directly above the platform was not available (other than, say, by expropriation) and the ticketing hall was so offset from the platforms that excessive excavation would have been necessary.
When the Hudson was built, they were excavating for the parkade, so it became feasible.

That may be the case, but it is still incredible that they can build the entire thing in less time than it takes to replace some escalators. They replaced 3 longer, older escalators in Washington DC in 8 moths. Montreal is replacing 24 in 2 years.

Last year Translink was saying that an escalator would take 4 months to replace. Granted, that's for other stations, but it is not like any station has easy access where they can crane in a full escalator and not many stations have ample working room around them. Many of them come up in the middle of the platform and have wall built around them at ground level.

I just think it is ridiculous that it will take 2 years to do something other cities (and this one) have done if far less time.

cganuelas1995
May 12, 2018, 11:14 PM
It took only one year to build the Empire State Building.

There were far more lenient standards on working hours, safety, environment, etc., back then.

J.OT13
May 13, 2018, 1:52 AM
The Granville Station ticketing hall was an open pit excavation in the middle of Seymour Street.
It's conceivable that the original escalators were installed in assembled form, but I don't know.

On this cross-section, you can see the ticketing hall and escalators (marked by dashed lines) are directly under Seymour Street:
http://www.via-architecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Granville-Station-Section.jpg
http://www.via-architecture.com/project/granville-station/

They were unable to install an elevator because the land directly above the platform was not available (other than, say, by expropriation) and the ticketing hall was so offset from the platforms that excessive excavation would have been necessary.
When the Hudson was built, they were excavating for the parkade, so it became feasible.

With this (relatively) new entrance, I can see how they might be able to justify closing down the original entrance.

I'm supervised the station wasn't built to accessibility standards in the first place. I feel they could have built an elevator shaft at the HBC entrance closest t the escalator.

Of course Montreal's Blue Line built in the same era was also built without any elevators.

Funny how Ottawa's 1980s BRT Transitway was ahead of the curb in accessibility, with all stations (as far as I know) having elevators (but with high-floor buses).

Were any other of the Skytrain Stations not have elevators?

MIPS
May 13, 2018, 5:01 AM
Every station when the line opened had one elevator, with the exception of Granville due to placement issues.

I think just back then it was deemed okay for Granville to not have an elevator so long as nearby Burrard did.

Sheba
May 13, 2018, 5:57 AM
Every station when the line opened had one elevator, with the exception of Granville due to placement issues.

I think just back then it was deemed okay for Granville to not have an elevator so long as nearby Burrard did.

Scott Road Station had a problem as the elevator was on the car side of the station. People would take a bus to the station and then would have to take a Handydart vehicle to the other side of the station (there's a major road that's fenced off so you can't just walk across) to access the elevator. It's only been in the more recent past that they added an elevator on the bus side.

MIPS
May 13, 2018, 7:26 AM
I have this unconfirmed feeling that regulations at some point got updated where metro stations had to have more than one elevator simply to improve accessibility. I mean I can see why as you can get a lineup at the older stations because at best they can carry two strollers at a time but given how doing so has so far meant typically rebuilding one end of the stations to do it, that's a pretty expensive addition.

Dave2
May 13, 2018, 2:23 PM
Every station when the line opened had one elevator, with the exception of Granville due to placement issues.

I think just back then it was deemed okay for Granville to not have an elevator so long as nearby Burrard did.

Well, technically side platforn stations like Nanaimo and Edmonds had two elevators.

aberdeen5698
May 13, 2018, 5:03 PM
Every station when the line opened had one elevator, with the exception of Granville due to placement issues.
...and for wheelchair access to Granville they provided a free HandyDART shuttle from Burrard station from opening day until the new entrance opened.

Changing City
May 13, 2018, 5:50 PM
You can read how the elevator at Granville came about - or nearly didn't - in this 2002 Rezoning Report (http://council.vancouver.ca/020611/p2.htm). Initially "On September 12, 2001, development application DE406058 was submitted on the 600 Granville Street site, to underdevelop the site with a four-storey retail and office development. The application included the retention of the heritage B.C. Electric Showroom Building but without providing an underground access to the Granville Street SkyTrain Station.". After negotiations "On January 8, 2002, staff received a rezoning inquiry from Macdonald Development Corporation proposing to introduce residential development on this site where residential use is not permitted, retain four heritage structures plus provide universal access to the Granville Street SkyTrain Station."

The report notes that there was concern that allowing residential in the CBD could undermine the viability of Downtown as an employment centre, and this was one of the projects that led to the creation of the Metro Core Policy a few years later to restrict residential uses, and boost employment uses with a higher base FSR.

The cost if the new underground access points and elevator were all effectively the CAC to allow the residential tower on top. There was some additional risk as the St Regis Hotel could also have been impacted, but fortunately the same developer had already purchased that in 1995. The reports in those days didn't give dollar values, but I think I recall Robert McDonald, one of the developers, saying it was over $20m (at 2002 values).

VancouverOfTheFuture
May 13, 2018, 6:18 PM
residential in the CBD. terrible, terrible thing.

J.OT13
May 14, 2018, 3:37 PM
Every station when the line opened had one elevator, with the exception of Granville due to placement issues.

I think just back then it was deemed okay for Granville to not have an elevator so long as nearby Burrard did.

Thanks. Still pretty good for the 80s.

residential in the CBD. terrible, terrible thing.

That's an interesting point of view. In Ottawa, we're pushing for more residential in the CBD in order to make it more lively evenings and weekends. The biggest sticking-point is the Sparks Street Pedestrian Mall, which has never lived up to its potential. I've heard other cities have the same issue with their CBDs (Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto amongst others).

Vancouver might be different. The CBD is more compact, the surrounding residential is much denser, the CBD itself is more of a tourist destination than most cities.

aberdeen5698
May 14, 2018, 4:49 PM
That's an interesting point of view.
I suspect he was being facetious. Downtown residences are a key part of Vancouver's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions because they make it possible for people to walk to work. The more, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.

CanSpice
May 14, 2018, 7:15 PM
For reference, Bramalea / Trilea (a big developer like Cadillac Fairview) owned all the parcels on the remainder of the Hudson's Bay block and the block to the north (except the CIBC Building, now Sophos & Shoppers) - ending at Pender.

Just a completely off-topic note: Sophos is no longer in that building, they've moved just down the street to 777 Dunsmuir.

J.OT13
May 15, 2018, 1:43 AM
I suspect he was being facetious. Downtown residences are a key part of Vancouver's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions because they make it possible for people to walk to work. The more, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.

I've been reading the report, I can see that now. My bad.

WarrenC12
May 15, 2018, 4:55 AM
I suspect he was being facetious. Downtown residences are a key part of Vancouver's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions because they make it possible for people to walk to work. The more, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.

Even if they aren't walking, they are in transit central, and potentially commuting in opposite patterns, which is efficient.