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WarrenC12
Jul 19, 2013, 2:12 PM
He's saying all the major redevelopments along the Canada Line should include a station expansion in their plans. Fr example the Marine Gateway development should include a station expansion along with the huge development they're building.

And even give MC2 the option of paying for an overhead entrance directly into Marine Drive station.

That area is going to be extremely busy, both with transit riders and pedestrians navigating that very busy intersection (Cambie and Marine).

Millennium2002
Jul 19, 2013, 5:34 PM
From this diagram, there appears to be no easy way for anyone on the north side of the station to access/leave the new platform without having to take a circular route.

Because of that, I'm not really sure if I agree with this current design...

officedweller
Jul 23, 2013, 10:08 AM
From this diagram, there appears to be no easy way for anyone on the north side of the station to access/leave the new platform without having to take a circular route.

Because of that, I'm not really sure if I agree with this current design...

I assume that there'll be an escalator to ground from the new platform on the south side of Broadway.

BCPhil
Jul 23, 2013, 11:29 PM
I assume that there'll be an escalator to ground from the new platform on the south side of Broadway.

I doubt it.

Hands down the busiest movement of people in the station is in the AM rush, when full trains on the Millennium line unload at a majority of the riders transfer to the Expo line into downtown. And that crush of riders will grow with the Evergreen line and increased frequency of trains.

The new platform will cater to this transfer, relieving the bottleneck caused by people walking infront of each other at the base of the escalators in the station plaza. You have people making it for the b-line coming down the escalator cutting across people running for the Expo line from the Millennium line. It is a mess.

I don't think they will have it be a unload one side, load the other. The third platform will be for the AM rush, facilitating a segregated transfer between inbound Expo and Evergreen lines. This will relieve pressure on the main platform making it more navigable.

And in the future when people will make the transfer from Expo to the Broadway line, the direct connection will be useful in both directions, so I hope they make it wide.

officedweller
Jul 24, 2013, 12:22 AM
I would think they'd need a stair/escalator for fire escape purposes
(i.e. at 10th Ave (not necessarily interfering with the platform space)
That would allow a down and up movement for someone who ended up on the wrong platform.

BCPhil
Jul 24, 2013, 12:48 AM
I would think they'd need a stair/escalator for fire escape purposes
(i.e. at 10th Ave (not necessarily interfering with the platform space)
That would allow a down and up movement for someone who ended up on the wrong platform.

I would bet there would be a fire/emergency only exit at the south end of the platform down to 10th (like at every station).

But from the image it looks like the stairs down from the platform go to the mezzanine of the Millennium line (not the platform), near that coffee shop thing where there is open space.

So if someone were to get off the train on the wrong side, they would need to go down the stairs there, then double back over the existing walkway to the main plaza. I'm sure people would learn fast which way to go, and it's not an impossible no way out if you do go the wrong way, just an annoying short walk.

I don't think you could go down sooner as there is a shoppers in the way and the walkway would go over the existing Tranlink breakrooms/washrooms.

hollywoodnorth
Aug 4, 2013, 9:34 AM
main street station east side addition moving along ... my pics from a couple nights ago

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zpsd3e8235f.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zpsda1c1c2e.jpg

Ehlun
Aug 9, 2013, 3:49 AM
Google is being uncooperative, so I can't seem to find information on this.

Power rail replacement started last year, then was cancelled. Then resumed this year in May. Anybody know why it was cancelled?

MIPS
Aug 9, 2013, 4:00 AM
I remember that too. I think they had to push it a quarter because of budgeting issues.

ryanmaccdn
Aug 9, 2013, 12:49 PM
was on skytrain today and had a cool/new/scary experience. We left royal oak and was heading towards Metro and the train lost power.... the lights shut off and the AC units powered down. And the oddest part was the train was just "coasting" no breaking...nothing. After about 10 seconds of slowing down due to various forms of resistance the power came on and the skytrain acted like nothing happened and just chugged away again.... it then repeated it two more times.

I have to think this has something to do with power rail replacement as this area of track between royal and metro has been under construction this past week.

Anyways I have a video on my phone of it... its cool/non event.

st7860
Aug 9, 2013, 2:30 PM
was on skytrain today and had a cool/new/scary experience. We left royal oak and was heading towards Metro and the train lost power.... the lights shut off and the AC units powered down. And the oddest part was the train was just "coasting" no breaking...nothing. After about 10 seconds of slowing down due to various forms of resistance the power came on and the skytrain acted like nothing happened and just chugged away again.... it then repeated it two more times.

I have to think this has something to do with power rail replacement as this area of track between royal and metro has been under construction this past week.

Anyways I have a video on my phone of it... its cool/non event.

while repairing a section of power rail it shorted out. check twitter for more info-- some passengers reported weird smells and other fun stuff yesterday afternoon

aberdeen5698
Aug 9, 2013, 3:52 PM
We left royal oak and was heading towards Metro and the train lost power.... the lights shut off and the AC units powered down. And the oddest part was the train was just "coasting" no breaking...nothing.I had something similar happen to me on a Mark I train a few months after the original Expo line opened. I boarded an inbound train at 29th Ave. and after the doors closed the train didn't accelerate like normal, it just started rolling under its own weight down the hill toward Nanaimo station. I started to worry about what the heck was going to happen. After perhaps 10 to 20 seconds of this the emergency brakes locked on and the train came to a juddering halt, and shortly after that it started accelerating with the usual sounds of the LIM.

Mac Write
Aug 9, 2013, 7:26 PM
DAMN would love to be on a train when it lost power. I guess some systems are on internal power and hence no emergency stop as it didn't loose communications, just internal lighting and running power. Way way too cool.

aberdeen5698
Aug 10, 2013, 3:59 AM
DAMN would love to be on a train when it lost power.Let me tell you right now that being on a train rolling downhill without power is a unique but also rather unsettling experience...

jsbertram
Aug 10, 2013, 4:12 AM
Let me tell you right now that being on a train rolling downhill without power is a unique but also rather unsettling experience...

As we've found out at Lac-Megantic ...

MIPS
Aug 10, 2013, 4:31 AM
The couplers allow for power transfer between cars to get over small dead spots but I remember last year west of Burnaby Lake there was one spot where you would still get the brief blip from the lights. If I read right the onboard backup power is only enough to run emergency lighting, the VOBC and the e-brake which seems a bit absurd to take ten seconds to engage.


---hypothetical scenario time---
Imagine a train stopped inbound at Nanaimo and there's another train running close behind it waiting to get into the staging tracks on the other side of the station. If the power fails the train in the station isn't going to go anywhere but even if the train above was slowing down the failure kills the primary brakes and the LIM and for ten seconds it's a rolling deadweight that could plough into the train at the platform.

I would expect at tops three seconds unless there's a reason it takes longer.

Edited: According to below the brakes can be immediate when power is lost. Bizarre.

Meraki
Aug 10, 2013, 4:32 AM
I had a fun encounter pulling into Lougheed one day on a Mk I. The train lost power causing the emergency brakes to apply. About a half second later, while everybody was in the process of being violently thrown forward it came back and the train switched to 100% accelleration, throwing the unstable passengers back in the other direction.

Jebby
Aug 10, 2013, 4:33 AM
As we've found out at Lac-Megantic ...

That train's engine was running. The driver left the train unattended but with the engines running to power the air brakes.


The engineer left the lead locomotive, #5017, running to keep air pressure supplied to the train's air brakes and also applied a number of manual hand brakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_derailment#Events_prior_to_the_derailment

aberdeen5698
Aug 10, 2013, 5:13 AM
If the power fails the train in the station isn't going to go anywhere but even if the train above was slowing down the failure kills the primary brakes and the LIM and for ten seconds it's a rolling deadweight that could plough into the train at the platform.

I would expect at tops three seconds unless there's a reason it takes longer.The automatic train control system uses a "moving block" concept which allocates a "safe zone" around a train as it moves long the track. Track space is allocated in such a way to ensure that the train is always able to stop before it reaches the end of the block it's been authorized to occupy.

It wouldn't surprise me that, in the event of a loss of communications, the train would be able to proceed autonomously to the point at which it needs to brake in order to stay within it's authorized track block. This avoids service issues with momentary communications disruptions, and it would explain why a train without LIM power is allowed to roll freely for a certain distance before the emergency brakes kick in.

aberdeen5698
Aug 10, 2013, 5:15 AM
That train's engine was running. The driver left the train unattended but with the engines running to power the air brakes.It was running, but not engaged. It was gravity that sent the train down the hill, not the engine.

Mac Write
Aug 10, 2013, 7:24 AM
Well today we were parked outside King George outband they said they were clearing trains. We finally move and 5 feet later (1-2s) the train slams the Emergency Breaks on!

A couple months ago I was on the train with my boss and we did a "Fast stop" not emergency stop but a slower faster then normal stop. Anyone ever had that were is stops fast but not an emergency stop?

Rolling Block. Anyone remember when in 2007(?) when there was like 7 trains piled up outside of Broadway station? Trains were parked about 60ft apart waiting to get into the station.

Millennium2002
Aug 10, 2013, 9:37 AM
I have a feeling that TransLink may want to invest a whole weekend or two into the project to smooth out some of the jarring stops and slow spots that have popped up all over the network of late.

GeeCee
Aug 10, 2013, 9:52 AM
It's not really 'all over the network' so much as directly because of the power rail replacement project.

mr.x
Aug 11, 2013, 1:01 AM
I had the impression they were pulling a Canada Line with how they were slowing down near the track switches, to prevent further wear down and system disruptions.

Waders
Aug 11, 2013, 1:45 AM
Train is definitely being slowed down to cross track switch for the past few months. Once the whole train passes the switch area, it then accelerates to compensate for the lost time. But then it has to decelerate again as it approaches the next station.
It is much less wear on the switch but more wear on the train itself. And I find the ride not as smooth as before.

MIPS
Aug 11, 2013, 8:54 PM
I think the failures of so many switches so close together is an indication that it's time they were overhauled and TransLink has either sidelined that replacement too far into the future or as said they don't want to do that so instead they're going to screw with train speeds as a way to squeeze a bit more life out of them until they have no choice left to replace them.

red-paladin
Aug 12, 2013, 12:27 AM
This is what happens when people from the suburbs yell and scream about Translink wasting money ... that and my Employee Pass >:[

GlassCity
Aug 12, 2013, 7:36 PM
So I'm not crazy, the Canada Line doesn't run at full speed? Because I find myself getting almost frustrated at how slow it feels. Yesterday I rode both the Millennium Line and the Canada Line, and the Millennium Line felt significantly faster.

officedweller
Aug 12, 2013, 8:11 PM
The Canada Line doesn't run at full speed because it is running to an established schedule (i.e. X trains per hour)
If it ran at full speed between stations, the dwell times would be much longer at each station to maintain the same schedule.
Or, if it ran at full speed end to end, you'd have a longer wait between trains.

MIPS
Aug 12, 2013, 9:56 PM
The Canada Line doesn't run at full speed because it is running to an established schedule (i.e. X trains per hour)
If it ran at full speed between stations, the dwell times would be much longer at each station to maintain the same schedule.
Or, if it ran at full speed end to end, you'd have a longer wait between trains.

But it uses the same signalling system as the rest of the rail network. Expo/Millenium doesn't seem to have long waits when it runs full tilt and it does that at least twice a day.

jhausner
Aug 12, 2013, 9:58 PM
That and on Canada Line a few of the larger corners or S bends (Yaletown stretch to Vancouver City Center, or up the hill to King Ed) are not banked I believe so while the train is capable of going around those corners quicker, the ride wouldn't feel that nice. I mean you can hear it now when it putz around those corners all the wheel grinding and squeeling.

All the curves on the Expo/Millenium line are banked to maintain full speed and be comfortable.

Just want to correct a previous post though, I don't know where the notion of all those "people from the suburbs" screaming about Translink wasting money. I haven't seen a topic on these forums about transit that is asking Translink to spend less money. On the contrary, people in the suburbs are screaming for Translink and the Province to fix their funding issues so they can SPEND MORE on transit.

I don't know why some people need to blame those that live in the suburbs for everything. Apparently we're to blame for screaming for Translink to spend less money but we're also to blame for screaming for Translink to spend more money for more transit. So which is it? My experience on these forums is actually quite the contrary, every time someone "from the suburbs" pipes up asking for something like maybe a B-Line finally, or transit expansion, or skytrain extension, people "not from the surbubs" say "NOT BEFORE BROADWAY NO MONEY FOR ANYTHING ELSE GO AWAY SUBURBS!!!"

officedweller
Aug 13, 2013, 12:24 AM
But it uses the same signalling system as the rest of the rail network. Expo/Millenium doesn't seem to have long waits when it runs full tilt and it does that at least twice a day.

I should have inserted "because InTransitBC is only contractually obligated to run to an established schedule ..."

It is not obligated to incur additional costs of running higher frequency - unless (presumably) it gets compensated for it...

Jebby
Aug 13, 2013, 1:56 AM
So I'm not crazy, the Canada Line doesn't run at full speed? Because I find myself getting almost frustrated at how slow it feels. Yesterday I rode both the Millennium Line and the Canada Line, and the Millennium Line felt significantly faster.

IIRC, the Canada Line was planned so that it can be sped up once the two future stations are added without changing the overall travel time between Richmond/YVR and Waterfront.

Meraki
Aug 13, 2013, 2:50 AM
IIRC, the Canada Line was planned so that it can be sped up once the two future stations are added without changing the overall travel time between Richmond/YVR and Waterfront.

Yeah. Also the Canada Line trains from Rotem don't have steerable axles like the Bombardier trains, which means they have to slow down to make corners (and you get the wheel squealing when it does make the corner.)

The steerable axle and narrower car allow the Bombardier cars to take corners at basically full speed.

GlassCity
Aug 13, 2013, 6:18 PM
IIRC, the Canada Line was planned so that it can be sped up once the two future stations are added without changing the overall travel time between Richmond/YVR and Waterfront.

I see, the two stations being 33 and 57 Avenue? So I assume there is no longer any intention of ever building a station at Capstan Way.

Zassk
Aug 13, 2013, 6:38 PM
I see, the two stations being 33 and 57 Avenue? So I assume there is no longer any intention of ever building a station at Capstan Way.

No, I believe that 57th is no longer contemplated. The time guarantee was with the airport authority, so the two future stations that affect that time are 33rd and YVR2. Of those two, YVR2 is the most likely to be built, since the next airport expansion will encompass it. Capstan is still planned (and may come ahead of schedule due to the pace of development funding it) but has no bearing on airport travel time.

officedweller
Aug 13, 2013, 7:17 PM
No, I believe that 57th is no longer contemplated. The time guarantee was with the airport authority, so the two future stations that affect that time are 33rd and YVR2. Of those two, YVR2 is the most likely to be built, since the next airport expansion will encompass it. Capstan is still planned (and may come ahead of schedule due to the pace of development funding it) but has no bearing on airport travel time.

57th is still planned - see the Pearson Dogwood Hospital redevelopment plans here - note the transit plaza on the corner (and pic of a "subway" entrance)

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6224580&postcount=253

BCPhil
Aug 15, 2013, 8:57 AM
I had the impression they were pulling a Canada Line with how they were slowing down near the track switches, to prevent further wear down and system disruptions.

Yeah, I've noticed in a few spots. But not on every switch (nor only switches).

It seems to happen on the first switch when you leave Nanaimo towards Broadway (but not it speeds up over the second and doesn't slow down the other way over either of them).

It slows down over the switch between Joyce and Patterson (I don't know why, its not like they ever use it). But it doesn't slow down over the switches outside Metrotown.

But oddest of all, is that it slows to an almost crawl when going over the expansion joint between between the Skybridge and the approach on the Surrey Side. What's going on there, there is no switch. This one is driving me the most nuts because the train used to scream on that stretch between Scott Road and Columbia, but now slows down so much.

st7860
Aug 15, 2013, 2:37 PM
Yeah, I've noticed in a few spots. But not on every switch (nor only switches).

It seems to happen on the first switch when you leave Nanaimo towards Broadway (but not it speeds up over the second and doesn't slow down the other way over either of them).

It slows down over the switch between Joyce and Patterson (I don't know why, its not like they ever use it). But it doesn't slow down over the switches outside Metrotown.

But oddest of all, is that it slows to an almost crawl when going over the expansion joint between between the Skybridge and the approach on the Surrey Side. What's going on there, there is no switch. This one is driving me the most nuts because the train used to scream on that stretch between Scott Road and Columbia, but now slows down so much.

For the joyce/patterson one, I guess it slows down because people living in those condos complained. I heard that many years ago they slowed down trains leaving main street(westbound) because similarly, there were complaints about noise.

Millennium2002
Aug 15, 2013, 5:39 PM
Residents have no role with the latest slowdowns on the Expo Line...

As mentioned previously, trains are only slowing down at various switches and joints on the network. This is most likely due to their condition, age, and need for replacement.

If there was a slowdown ordered by residents, the system would basically have trains crawling throughout like mad...

usog
Aug 15, 2013, 6:01 PM
I posted a few months ago about the switch area slowdowns but looks like it's still a mystery. The weirdest thing is that they only slow down going westbound on many of them, they go full speed the other direction so it's definitely not a matter of noise.

st7860
Aug 15, 2013, 6:02 PM
With regards to the huge joint at the beginning of the skybridge I read something a few months ago saying that translink is replacing the 'bushing/coupling' or something like that (The thing under the guideway where the guideway meets the column somewhere near the beginning of the skybridge"

officedweller
Aug 15, 2013, 6:32 PM
They replaced the one on the New West side - I think it was last year.

red-paladin
Aug 15, 2013, 7:58 PM
Trains are slow on the stretch between Main St - Science World. station and the dip under the viaduct on purpose. That is the tightest, most problematic section of track in the system, and has made some of the most noise. When there was the open house for the station renos, there were some questions and answers about the noise on this portion from residents that were available as minutes from the meeting. Translink spoke about about efforts to minimize noise by track grinding and wheel replacing. I can't remember the name of the report though. Personally I don't mind it as it provides a few extra seconds for view of the false creek, perhaps tourists feel the same.

BCPhil
Aug 15, 2013, 9:18 PM
Trains are slow on the stretch between Main St - Science World. station and the dip under the viaduct on purpose. That is the tightest, most problematic section of track in the system, and has made some of the most noise. When there was the open house for the station renos, there were some questions and answers about the noise on this portion from residents that were available as minutes from the meeting. Translink spoke about about efforts to minimize noise by track grinding and wheel replacing. I can't remember the name of the report though. Personally I don't mind it as it provides a few extra seconds for view of the false creek, perhaps tourists feel the same.

Yeah, I have a feeling that Translink slowed down trains along the false creek section in response to complaints is because fast trains were probably putting a lot of strain on the tight curves and switches there, and it does make for a good tourist eye-rgasm. If they didn't have other things to gain from slowing down the trains, they would have ignored the noise complaints. As if Translink (or anyone) would have any sympathy for people who bought condos above the Cobalt and on the doorstep of the DTES.

But the Skybridge one is really aggravating me because it slows down for quite a distance before hitting the bridge.

I also noticed the Canada Line slows down so much it almost goes backwards over the switches at Bridgeport out to the airport. That's brand new and there are already problems there?

Zassk
Aug 15, 2013, 9:25 PM
I also noticed the Canada Line slows down so much it almost goes backwards over the switches at Bridgeport out to the airport. That's brand new and there are already problems there?

Its 4th birthday will be on Saturday!

It was always really slow on those switches... probably the slowest spot in the whole system... is it even slower now?

BCPhil
Aug 15, 2013, 9:38 PM
Its 4th birthday will be on Saturday!

It was always really slow on those switches... probably the slowest spot in the whole system... is it even slower now?

I haven't been past Bridgeport in a while until yesterday, but it was definitely worse than it was the last time I rode it.

TransitJack
Aug 16, 2013, 1:06 AM
I haven't been past Bridgeport in a while until yesterday, but it was definitely worse than it was the last time I rode it.

It's definitely slower at Bridgeport south on the Outbound.

I'm sure the Skybridge slow order relates to other work, perhaps running or power rail or bridge expansion joints that need some work. The slow order in place until the work cab be scheduled.

MIPS
Aug 16, 2013, 6:03 AM
I was in town on Tuesday and ran a loop from New West to Waterfront and back.
The slowdown at the switch between Patterson and Joyce comes with a distinct "klunk" as the train passes over so it's more likely this section has been slowed for repairs.
The other one I found however baffled me. We left Nanaimo inbound and we more or less coasted down the grade, through one of the switches below and then took off again once we had cleared the first one. I didn't notice any new slowdowns though the one added outbound after Metrotown seems to of been removed. They only added it if I recall because the switch broke and they didn't want trains running over it fast.

Also, here's some photos.
SHINY NEW POWER RAIL BETWEEN EDMONDS AND METROTOWN
Image Courtesy of MIPS
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CGS_0331.jpg
I noticed the yellow weather guards aren't being replaced. Have they finally given up on them? I recall they were an afterthought after the SRT had icing issues.

MAIN STREET CONSTRUCTION PROGRESS
Images Courtesy of MIPS
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CGS_0328.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CGS_0330.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CRW_9000.jpg

Scaffolding has been constructed both at the end of the expansion so workers for now don't need to require the station for access and along the guideways (Take note however that this now allows someone to travel down the guideway and get around the intrusion detection).
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CGS_0326.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CGS_0329.jpg

They have also just about gutted the roof of the station. Most old electrical fixtures have been removed or replaced, PA speakers are in the process of being replaced and all panelling has been cut and removed.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/CGS_0327.jpg
The red oxide painted beams are components of the older and shorter demonstration half of the station. When the platform was expanded during construction of the Expo Line they used white beams instead.

red-paladin
Aug 16, 2013, 4:04 PM
Thanks for the photos!

AverageJoe
Aug 20, 2013, 11:05 PM
Main St. Station:

http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t665/AaverageJoe/IMG_5914a_zps2166b748.jpg

officedweller
Aug 20, 2013, 11:09 PM
Thanks.
Coming together nicely.

Will the 2-car shuttle trains stop at the new east end of the platform?

dreambrother808
Aug 20, 2013, 11:53 PM
I love that they're renovating this station but I've always found Metrotown to be much more crowded and problematic. Why not that one first? Issues with tying into mall redevelopment perhaps?

officedweller
Aug 20, 2013, 11:59 PM
Maybe because Main Street is a multi-modal hub with the coach buses and VIA trains...

DKaz
Aug 21, 2013, 12:53 AM
My photos from yesterday...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/946352_566620611885_1037725007_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1185444_566620626855_147338834_n.jpg

Hopefully I'm allowed on the platform level next month.

jhausner
Aug 21, 2013, 1:45 AM
Trains are slow on the stretch between Main St - Science World. station and the dip under the viaduct on purpose. That is the tightest, most problematic section of track in the system, and has made some of the most noise. When there was the open house for the station renos, there were some questions and answers about the noise on this portion from residents that were available as minutes from the meeting. Translink spoke about about efforts to minimize noise by track grinding and wheel replacing. I can't remember the name of the report though. Personally I don't mind it as it provides a few extra seconds for view of the false creek, perhaps tourists feel the same.

Yah I never minded the slow down between main and station for that very reason, it's a nice view like "ta da Vancouver." It's been that way for as long as I can remember though aka back in the early 90s before there were high rises around there so I think it is as you said, more for the complexity and problematic nature of that section of track. It's a fairly good S bend with a curving elevation change right out of a station.

MIPS
Sep 1, 2013, 7:45 AM
What was the reason again for covering all the windows in Stadium Station?
It makes the ticket hall really dark and gloomy.

red-paladin
Sep 1, 2013, 4:46 PM
Stadium Station really needs to be be rebuilt completely. It's so completely ugly.

Millennium2002
Sep 1, 2013, 4:58 PM
What was the reason again for covering all the windows in Stadium Station?
It makes the ticket hall really dark and gloomy.

It might have been a summer thing... with all the (now-covered) glass at top I can only imagine they had a lot of complaints regarding how warm or hot the station house was during a heat wave.

MIPS
Sep 3, 2013, 3:25 AM
Stadium Station really needs to be be rebuilt completely. It's so completely ugly.

It was built back when it was not completely crammed between the Costco, Rogers Arena and the International Village. It hung out over the hill with the viaduct and was surrounded by parking lots. It's also seen multiple renovations to add the Waves coffee and expand the offices up top. A fair number of windows and lights were also removed. If you see drywall it's not an original part of the station (including that white railing they put on the roof because WCB is retarded). The idea to bring back the windows is because you can't get light from the sides anymore and you have windows in the offices that no longer serve a purpose.

Otherwise, it's one of the largest Expo stations. I like it because the ticket halls are not cramped. There's also that third platform which no other station in the system has. They could be loading or unloading multiple trains at once during game nights but all they seem to do is park idle trains in it which is a complete waste.

Mac Write
Sep 3, 2013, 3:43 AM
The third platform was solely build for Expo86 to shuttle people to Canada Place as Canada Place was inside the Expo86 grounds. Now it goes unused (really wish I had ridden it as an express to Waterfront back then, but I was only 8).

jbrizzy
Sep 13, 2013, 7:11 AM
Drove by main st station tuesday and thursday night around 10:30 and main st was blocked at terminal. I'm guessing this has something to do with the construction but I couldn't see any work being done. Also I don't think any busses were running down main past broadway. Anyone know what's going on ?

Mac Write
Sep 13, 2013, 7:38 AM
Escalator Delivery?

ryanmaccdn
Sep 13, 2013, 1:19 PM
Drove by main st station tuesday and thursday night around 10:30 and main st was blocked at terminal. I'm guessing this has something to do with the construction but I couldn't see any work being done. Also I don't think any busses were running down main past broadway. Anyone know what's going on ?

They close that intersection and any traffic along Main Street to gain more vantage points and do some serious work when the tracks are turned off.

Oh shit, you thought finishing a station during the day was enough... err girl you cute.

lightrail
Sep 20, 2013, 9:55 PM
It was built back when it was not completely crammed between the Costco, Rogers Arena and the International Village. It hung out over the hill with the viaduct and was surrounded by parking lots. It's also seen multiple renovations to add the Waves coffee and expand the offices up top. A fair number of windows and lights were also removed. If you see drywall it's not an original part of the station (including that white railing they put on the roof because WCB is retarded). The idea to bring back the windows is because you can't get light from the sides anymore and you have windows in the offices that no longer serve a purpose.

Otherwise, it's one of the largest Expo stations. I like it because the ticket halls are not cramped. There's also that third platform which no other station in the system has. They could be loading or unloading multiple trains at once during game nights but all they seem to do is park idle trains in it which is a complete waste.

As presently designed, using both platforms to load multiple trains is not really feasible. It can be done, but it would be complicated. For example, staff would need to direct people to the correct platform. I supposed Mellenium could use one and Expo the other. Given Skytrain's frequency, running trains through one platform works better. It avoids having to over use two switches that don't get used too often, so would likely be subject to failure. The platform also has no wheelshair access - stairs only.

Platform 3 at Stadium is used for train testing, filming and storage these days. A good place to test new materials, or lighting, for example.

It was built for the Expo and at that time a none-stop shuttle train operated between there and Waterfront. At Stadium, the platform connected directly to the Expo monorail platform. At Waterfront, the centre platform was split by fencing - with the south half being for Expo (and that included the Howe Street entrance, which was inside the Expo grounds), and the north side for regular trains, which was access through Waterfront Station. This is why there is a cross-over west of the station, so the Expo trains could enter the south platform to load and unload, and the regular train the north platform to load and unload.

At Stadium, Canada Place bound shuttles would depart eastbound, then cross over at the first switch east of Stadium, then reverse and power through Stadium station, Granville and Burrard to waterfront.

The shuttles ran in between regular services, leading to a few fast acceleration and decleration as it had to wait for service trains to depart platforms at Granville and Burrard. It made for a fun ride. During the journey, an announcement was made explaining how skytrain was computer controlled and how it operated.

I also want to point out that in the first year of Skytrain, there was no service on Sundays. Trains were replaced with two bus routes - the 113 and 114 (Sunday only services - i think those were the numbers). I'm not sure of the reason but suspect a mix of wanting time to work on the new technology as well as expected low ridership on Sunday.

rsxstock
Sep 21, 2013, 1:42 AM
it might be interesting if they route the future street car to that 3rd platform and maybe the ov station to tie that area and the 2 lines together

MIPS
Sep 21, 2013, 2:11 AM
-Lots of other facts but truncated due to size-

I've known this for a while. I'm not the SkyTrain Nut for nothing. ;)

So if we don't need a third platform at Stadium because of the issues of using it, what exactly was the reason again to consider adding a third platform to Broadway?

Jebby
Sep 21, 2013, 2:15 AM
I've known this for a while. I'm not the SkyTrain Nut for nothing. ;)

So if we don't need a third platform at Stadium because of the issues of using it, what exactly was the reason again to consider adding a third platform to Broadway?

It will only be a third platform, not third track, which will allow boarding/exiting through doors on both sides of the train to speed things up and reduce crowding on the current platform.

MIPS
Sep 22, 2013, 5:45 AM
It will only be a third platform, not third track, which will allow boarding/exiting through doors on both sides of the train to speed things up and reduce crowding on the current platform.

Oh, sorry. I must of mixed the terms.

Jebby
Sep 22, 2013, 8:10 AM
Oh, sorry. I must of mixed the terms.

No worries.

Stadium Station has 3 tracks and platforms:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Stadium-chinatown-tracks.jpg

Broadway Station will be getting a 3rd platform but will remain 2 tracks, like this:

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/20423_3588546485829_2136010907_n.jpg

Just ignore the bottom platform and you have what Broadway will be like. Passengers going towards Waterfront will probably be boarding using the center platform and disembarking on the outside platform.

hollywoodnorth
Sep 22, 2013, 11:17 AM
the wind screens are going up on main street station starting ... now! they look great!

hollywoodnorth
Sep 23, 2013, 10:20 AM
my pics of said event

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zps210600c3.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zps0374bc9d.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zps54585fef.jpg

officedweller
Sep 23, 2013, 6:35 PM
Sweet! Thanks for posting.

This may end up resembling Brentwood Station a bit.

BCPhil
Sep 23, 2013, 8:56 PM
As presently designed, using both platforms to load multiple trains is not really feasible. It can be done, but it would be complicated. For example, staff would need to direct people to the correct platform. I supposed Mellenium could use one and Expo the other. Given Skytrain's frequency, running trains through one platform works better. It avoids having to over use two switches that don't get used too often, so would likely be subject to failure. The platform also has no wheelshair access - stairs only.

Platform 3 at Stadium is used for train testing, filming and storage these days. A good place to test new materials, or lighting, for example.

It was built for the Expo and at that time a none-stop shuttle train operated between there and Waterfront. At Stadium, the platform connected directly to the Expo monorail platform. At Waterfront, the centre platform was split by fencing - with the south half being for Expo (and that included the Howe Street entrance, which was inside the Expo grounds), and the north side for regular trains, which was access through Waterfront Station. This is why there is a cross-over west of the station, so the Expo trains could enter the south platform to load and unload, and the regular train the north platform to load and unload.

At Stadium, Canada Place bound shuttles would depart eastbound, then cross over at the first switch east of Stadium, then reverse and power through Stadium station, Granville and Burrard to waterfront.

The shuttles ran in between regular services, leading to a few fast acceleration and decleration as it had to wait for service trains to depart platforms at Granville and Burrard. It made for a fun ride. During the journey, an announcement was made explaining how skytrain was computer controlled and how it operated.

I also want to point out that in the first year of Skytrain, there was no service on Sundays. Trains were replaced with two bus routes - the 113 and 114 (Sunday only services - i think those were the numbers). I'm not sure of the reason but suspect a mix of wanting time to work on the new technology as well as expected low ridership on Sunday.

I think you can use the third track and platform at Stadium. Right after a game or concert lets out there is an initial surge at the station. During the event, a train can be parked on the track and wait for the crowds. Staff could easily direct passengers up to both platforms. At that time of night, usually trains are less busy, so trains almost fully load at Stadium after a game, and that takes time. If you were fully loading empty trains on both platforms, you can load 2 trains at once, and you can run the trains much closer together and clear out the crowds in no time at all. Even if they just fill the one train that is there waiting, it would go a long way in reducing overcrowding on the main platform and keep trains from backing up.

Even if you separated the trains into Expo and Millennium, you could still have passengers who need special access (elevator) to the Millennium line just board an Expo train and switch trains somewhere down the line (is anyone stupid enough to realize you can't do that?).


Last Monday, right when the Canucks game got out, there was a problem train in Waterfront station and they closed Waterfront, Burrard, and Granville stations. This caused a huge backup at Stadium station, with the large crowds and few trains. If a situation arises where you have to short turn trains at Stadium (because the tunnels are closed), then you could keep trains frequent by using the third track to turn around more trains.

hollywoodnorth
Sep 24, 2013, 12:33 AM
and a few more of Main Street Station from the daytime (30 mins ago). my pics

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zps7661b456.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zpse594192b.jpghttp://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zps86aaee49.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zpsebca4cf1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zps67b5ed70.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/hollywoodnorth/null_zpse5e1586c.jpg

dpogue
Sep 24, 2013, 3:15 AM
So that's what those white metal things are. They've been sitting on flatbed trucks in a parking lot on Great Northern Way for a week or so now.

Photo of them in the parking lot, taken on my way home:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-T0yICGCAop0/UkDmjFreF1I/AAAAAAAAD6E/Yo0UMLuw5Ss/w1164-h873-no/IMG_20130923_180959.jpg

lightrail
Sep 24, 2013, 4:02 PM
I think you can use the third track and platform at Stadium.

.


If it were up to me, I'd decommission the third track, and then extend the third platform to the eastbound track to create a "spanish solution", then it could be used effectively during events to load trains faster.

Of course, this would remove the pocket track for staging trains, which might have operational concequencies.

MIPS
Sep 24, 2013, 7:19 PM
That seems like such a massive waste. I mean you have Vancouver's only three platform station right next to both of its major sports venues and the system itself both automated and self-adjusting to loads.

Prior to the end of an event you could inject four SkyTrains inbound and prepare several more at OMC and at staging points near Nanaimo and Metrotown. One can wait at Stadium, one sits at the staging point at Waterfront, another sits in the turnaround and another sits on Waterfront's outbound. Because at night the system runs at limited service you can still have a functioning loop where trains enter Waterfront and stop at the inbound platform, then reverse through the switch west of the station and continue back outbound. The only issue is you can only keep these regular service trains there for half the time (two to five minutes instead of five to ten) or else you will have trains clog up just outside the Waterfront end of the tunnel as they wait for trains to pass through the switch.
When the event ends you can open the third platform and begin loading the staged train. Then you begin sending trains outbound and start rolling the trains parked at Waterfront (and put the section into rush hour mode to get trains turned around quickly). One after another the switch at Stadium brings in trains to both platforms and sends them out fully loaded while still allowing for regular service trains to arrive stadium, loop to waterfront and pass back through Stadium with no interruptions to their regular service.

The key components is the ability for the computer to handle a lot of trains on one half of the line and slowly spread them out as they make their way to VCC or King George before going out of service and returning to the OMC.

Edited: Wow. So I spent two hours trying to better describe this with illustrations on paper but it's amazingly hard to do so without making it look like there's wait states all over the system. I almost need to crank out gifs to demonstrate it.

Mac Write
Sep 24, 2013, 9:40 PM
If you wanted to stage trains at Waterfront, I would send inbound trains through the switch before the station to the outbound platform. Then you can store 1 train on the storage track at the other side of the station and upto 3 trains after the switch before the station and on the tail track after the station and a train in the station.

aberdeen5698
Sep 24, 2013, 10:11 PM
That seems like such a massive waste. I mean you have Vancouver's only three platform station right next to both of its major sports venues and the system itself both automated and self-adjusting to loads.There's no point in using the third platform at Stadium to bunch trains together any more closely than you can do with the one normal outbound platform because all of the other stations have only one platform and therefore those stations' dwell times will be the bottlenecks. You'd just end up with a bunch of trains waiting outside stations while the ones ahead load and unload.

officedweller
Sep 24, 2013, 11:19 PM
It depends on whether the dwell time at Stadium would be artificially long due to the entire train being filled with stadium/arena crowds.

The dwell time at other stations down the line wouldn't be as long because passengers would exit at various stops more randomly.

MIPS
Sep 25, 2013, 12:17 AM
There is also a delay forced when you switch tracks. The computer can't allow a train to go through until the switch is complete and it will not go through at regular speed. Using well planned dwells and toggling of outbound trains between platforms you can develop a much more even flow of trains out of the downtown without having trains stuck in the tunnel.

Prometheus
Sep 25, 2013, 1:16 AM
Thanks for the awesome update of the SkyTrain station renovations, hollywoodnorth.

cornholio
Sep 25, 2013, 2:15 AM
They can use it as a third platform for special events while keeping the track. When a third platform is needed they can cover the track and use it as a platform. This does not have to be expensive
nor complicated and can be deployed quickly if properly designed.

hollywoodnorth
Sep 25, 2013, 2:57 AM
So that's what those white metal things are. They've been sitting on flatbed trucks in a parking lot on Great Northern Way for a week or so now.

Photo of them in the parking lot, taken on my way home:


if your in that area often ... snap us some shots of the MEC HQ building going up! :cheers:

and a few of the Fraser and Broadway Social Housing project .... its looking big from my hood up on that ridge!

and no probs on the pics peeps .... will keep them coming!

MIPS
Sep 25, 2013, 6:34 AM
They can use it as a third platform for special events while keeping the track. When a third platform is needed they can cover the track and use it as a platform. This does not have to be expensive
nor complicated and can be deployed quickly if properly designed.
New West had that for a few years before Columbia opened.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/SkyTrain/temp-plat.jpg
Photo courtesy of Alan M.

Mac Write
Sep 25, 2013, 7:48 AM
Is there any video of the New West dual platform loading? This does show the system since the beginning has been programmed for dual platform loading Drool!!! Now when Broadway becomes dual platform loading…………

I was 8 when Skytrain opened and remember that dual platform loading. If only I had taken photos. oh well.

Thanks for the photo.

VanCvl
Sep 25, 2013, 3:07 PM
I've been thinking that we must be close to getting an express train on the Expo line that maybe stops at Surrey Central, New Westminster, Metrotown, and Stadium. The thing that I can't wrap my mind around is if a new dedicated track is needed or just by-pass tracks at the other stations.

red-paladin
Sep 25, 2013, 4:53 PM
I had always remembered being in the New West station with my parents in 1986, and stopping at the 'wrong' yellow line. (Stopping at the actual platform's yellow line, not the temporary one), yet until I saw that picture on the forum last year or so, I could never figure out why that happened. :)


Also, more of the curved structural elements have been placed on Main St. Station now. They are on both sides, etc.

cornholio
Sep 25, 2013, 7:00 PM
New West had that for a few years before Columbia opened.

Great find! Exactly what I was thinking.

I've been thinking that we must be close to getting an express train on the Expo line that maybe stops at Surrey Central, New Westminster, Metrotown, and Stadium. The thing that I can't wrap my mind around is if a new dedicated track is needed or just by-pass tracks at the other stations.

If you lengthened the express stations platforms you could run a longer train where some of the cars open its doors only at these longer express stations. But if you want a train skipping other trains then I don't see how that can be done without significantly reducing the overall frequency of the entire system.

aberdeen5698
Sep 25, 2013, 11:51 PM
I've been thinking that we must be close to getting an express train on the Expo line that maybe stops at Surrey Central, New Westminster, Metrotown, and Stadium.How the heck can you run an express train on the same tracks that the regular trains are running on? And if they're on the same tracks, they're not going to be able to pass regular trains so why wouldn't you open the doors at every station anyway?

rsxstock
Sep 26, 2013, 3:06 AM
How the heck can you run an express train on the same tracks that the regular trains are running on? And if they're on the same tracks, they're not going to be able to pass regular trains so why wouldn't you open the doors at every station anyway?

if the computer controls it well enough, the express trains may be able to cross over to the other track to overtake but that would look like the equivalent of a car weaving in and out

VanCvl
Sep 26, 2013, 3:20 AM
if the computer controls it well enough, the express trains may be able to cross over to the other track to overtake but that would look like the equivalent of a car weaving in and out

If there was four sets of tracks at the station the express train would "bypass" the station while the local train would be on/off boarding. The four tracks would reduce to two between stations: where ROW is tight. You are correct, it'd have to be timed right but doesn't seem to complicated that an algorithm could figure out.

I've heard the switches are the most expensive maintenance part in the system so I wonder how that would compare with the capital cost of an entirely new track.

deasine
Sep 26, 2013, 3:54 AM
if the computer controls it well enough, the express trains may be able to cross over to the other track to overtake but that would look like the equivalent of a car weaving in and out

Yes, but did you take into account what frequency the SkyTrain is operated at?

The four tracks would reduce to two between stations: where ROW is tight.

Unfortunately many stations have maximised the allotted ROW area. Real estate acquisition will ultimately be needed at many parts of the line in order to build bypass tracks. Of course then, how much faster is the system and at what cost? Arguably the money spent to make the system much faster can be used instead to expand capacity and service or be used to modernise the system.

twoNeurons
Sep 26, 2013, 6:20 AM
This has been discussed many times before. An Express SkyTrain would have very little benefit and just add complexity to the system.

aberdeen5698
Sep 26, 2013, 9:13 AM
if the computer controls it well enough, the express trains may be able to cross over to the other track to overtake but that would look like the equivalent of a car weaving in and outThere aren't enough crossovers to make that possible without dropping frequencies to something like once every 10 minutes. That would be a huge reduction in system capacity for virtually no gain.

aberdeen5698
Sep 26, 2013, 9:15 AM
If there was four sets of tracks at the station the express train would "bypass" the station while the local train would be on/off boarding.Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen. Platform lengthening would be a far less difficult and vastly more beneficial project to undertake.

casper
Sep 30, 2013, 5:15 AM
This has been discussed many times before. An Express SkyTrain would have very little benefit and just add complexity to the system.

Why not just run express trains (with much less frequency) on the regular railway network (i.e. WestCoast Express type configuration). I could see a train that starts at Waterfront, stops at Broadway, Spiraling, New West and then out to Surrey working just by adding platforms to existing tracks. The freight railway lines would need to be convinced or forced to share their track, however if this is a service that is only warranted during rush house it may be doable with some double tracking in a few places. This would compliment the WestCoast Express.

When the distance based fare structure is in place and skytrain stations exist along the WestCoast express line Transitlink should look at droping the premium that is charged for using WestCoast Express.

MIPS
Sep 30, 2013, 5:22 AM
There's no way in hell CN or BNSF will surrender that last track through the cut.

The idea of express trains is simply not a function that the signalling system was designed for. Remember that the original name was Intermediate Capacity Transit System. Express trains are a feature more dedicated to heavy rail systems where costs per km of track is far lower and the systems see much heavier use. We see load in far smaller bursts that can be handled by the ability to dump as many trains as we have onto the system and not have collisions.

Jebby
Sep 30, 2013, 6:24 AM
There's no way in hell CN or BNSF will surrender that last track through the cut.

The Grandview cut and ROV through Vancouver and Burnaby is wide enough, even with the M-Line guideway, to support a double track.