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Colin May
Mar 22, 2016, 3:10 AM
Hearing rumblings that the rest of this development is in serious trouble of being delayed or cancelled except for the iconic tower, which rumour has it may be changed to hotel/residential.

Too many unsold condo units and the metro rental market is overbuilt.
Poor place for a hotel, people want to be in Halifax.

someone123
Mar 22, 2016, 4:26 AM
I was under the impression that they have a lot of deposits already for units in the main tower. It must be kind of hard to sell small building #4 when the possibility of a nicer building is on the horizon and there aren't yet a whole lot more amenities than there were in downtown Dartmouth a few years ago. On top of that it looks like the future phases will detract a bit from the skyline views of some of the units in the original buildings. Maybe something like a major grocery store would make the area a bit more attractive. That's a chicken and egg problem though. Maybe there's enough of a population base now?

From the beginning I think they said it would be a 10-15 year build-out. Halifax is not like Toronto and Vancouver where bubbly prices, flipping, and "investment" dollars cause buildings to sell out in minutes. That'll probably be a good thing in the long run though.

OldDartmouthMark
Mar 22, 2016, 12:32 PM
I'm not in the development, planning or business professions, but to me it almost seems like this project is being developed in a backwards fashion.

Trying to sell smaller, stubbier buildings first to support the more desirable tall tower seems like you would run the risk of the major attraction to this complex not being built because the less-desirable (and slower-selling) aspects are expected to fund it.

Wouldn't it be better to build the main attraction first with the effect of making the smaller buildings more desirable by association?

Perhaps that type of investment might attract merchants to set up shop based on the more upscale impression that the towers would give to the area?

Like I said, I'm not a businessman...

Jonovision
Mar 22, 2016, 3:10 PM
I'm not in the development, planning or business professions, but to me it almost seems like this project is being developed in a backwards fashion.

Trying to sell smaller, stubbier buildings first to support the more desirable tall tower seems like you would run the risk of the major attraction to this complex not being built because the less-desirable (and slower-selling) aspects are expected to fund it.

Wouldn't it be better to build the main attraction first with the effect of making the smaller buildings more desirable by association?

Perhaps that type of investment might attract merchants to set up shop based on the more upscale impression that the towers would give to the area?

Like I said, I'm not a businessman...

That is the same sort of thing I have been thinking for the past few years. Even had they not built the iconic tower first, but had built out the centre blocks and created a desirable place for people to congregate. A real city square instead of a long line of buildings on a cul-de-sac. The place needed a draw not just for residents but for locals to come and enjoy the space, make it something exciting and full of life.

Drybrain
Mar 22, 2016, 5:05 PM
That is the same sort of thing I have been thinking for the past few years. Even had they not built the iconic tower first, but had built out the centre blocks and created a desirable place for people to congregate. A real city square instead of a long line of buildings on a cul-de-sac. The place needed a draw not just for residents but for locals to come and enjoy the space, make it something exciting and full of life.

Agreed. I was recently house-hunting and considering a condo, but there's no way I would've bought at King's Wharf. Most importantly I wanted to be in Halifax, but eve if I'd considered Dartmouth, King's Wharf is just kinda...stuck out there, without a lot immediately around it.

worldlyhaligonian
Mar 22, 2016, 9:19 PM
Yeah... why wouldn't they have built the iconic tower first and then attracted people to the rest of the development!

We want iconic towers!!!!!!!!

grbrki
Apr 13, 2016, 12:05 PM
And the crane is down...for now...

Jonovision
Apr 24, 2016, 9:12 PM
https://41.media.tumblr.com/79d8286c9d196a74ea9af12a33ef04e7/tumblr_o65m41TRmj1sk8kjeo7_1280.jpg

Jonovision
Jun 26, 2016, 8:40 PM
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7090/27819317492_45d3bc57d4_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JoigT3)20160626_074806_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JoigT3) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

alps
Jun 28, 2016, 1:53 AM
Lovely pic!

Jonovision
Jun 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
Lovely pic!

Thank you :)

The Iconic Tower is the next building coming apparently.

They will also need to get that second access up and running before this 5th building can open.

http://www.condonova.ca/blog/kings-wharf-proceeding-iconic-condo-tower

King's Wharf Proceeding With "Iconic" Condo Tower

—June 26, 2016
The Dartmouth waterfront is poised for further revitalization, as King’s Wharf developer Francis Fares announced this week his plans for constructing the development’s signature building—the 33-storey, $120 million, 177 condo unit “Iconic Tower.” Fares plans to begin marketing condo units in the planned building in September, and, based on demand, begin construction next summer.

The news comes on the heels of rumors that Fares plans to sell the complex’s fourth residential building, The Killick, to a real estate investment trust. The Killick was originally marketed as a condo building, but with lagging condo demand last summer, Fares shifted the building to apartment rentals....

Colin May
Jun 29, 2016, 1:08 AM
Thank you :)

The Iconic Tower is the next building coming apparently.

They will also need to get that second access up and running before this 5th building can open.

http://www.condonova.ca/blog/kings-wharf-proceeding-iconic-condo-tower

King's Wharf Proceeding With "Iconic" Condo Tower

—June 26, 2016
The Dartmouth waterfront is poised for further revitalization, as King’s Wharf developer Francis Fares announced this week his plans for constructing the development’s signature building—the 33-storey, $120 million, 177 condo unit “Iconic Tower.” Fares plans to begin marketing condo units in the planned building in September, and, based on demand, begin construction next summer.

The news comes on the heels of rumors that Fares plans to sell the complex’s fourth residential building, The Killick, to a real estate investment trust. The Killick was originally marketed as a condo building, but with lagging condo demand last summer, Fares shifted the building to apartment rentals....

PVSC shows 14 unsold units in the 77 unit Aqua Vista with an assessed value of $6.8 million. Only 7 units have sold in the past 6 months.
An 11th floor unit sold for $120,000 below the assessed value and a 9th floor unit sold for $90,000 below assessed value; and a 3rd floor unit sold for $172,000 below assessed value in June 2015
An $881,000 unit on the 11th floor sold for $1 on June 20 2016.

portapetey
Jun 29, 2016, 4:03 AM
I'm a little confused. If they couldn't sell the units in the Killick, why would they go ahead and build the 33 story tower as condos? Are they betting that people will buy there because of the height? Also, I hoe they find a good name for it. I'm so tired of the word "iconic" in this business, especially when applied to bland designs.

IanWatson
Jun 29, 2016, 11:53 AM
I'm a little confused. If they couldn't sell the units in the Killick, why would they go ahead and build the 33 story tower as condos? Are they betting that people will buy there because of the height? Also, I hoe they find a good name for it. I'm so tired of the word "iconic" in this business, especially when applied to bland designs.

When Kings Wharf launched a lot of people put down deposits to reserve a unit in the Iconic Tower. Maybe those deposits are still valid and Fares thinks they can convert them into actual sales?

hockey157
Jun 29, 2016, 3:58 PM
Does anyone know when or if the iconic tower is scheduled to be built? can't find anything about it

Colin May
Jun 29, 2016, 6:22 PM
When Kings Wharf launched a lot of people put down deposits to reserve a unit in the Iconic Tower. Maybe those deposits are still valid and Fares thinks they can convert them into actual sales?

I have heard that people put down deposits but i have never heard the name/s of such persons. Perhaps an enterprising journalist can make a phone call and ascertain the number of deposits and determine if the money has been held in a trust account for the past several years.

Jonovision
Jun 29, 2016, 8:36 PM
My understanding was that they actually got so much interest that they could have filled the building and that's why in the revised plan there were two towers. Still not sure if that will go ahead or not.

I think the issue with King's Wharf overall was the phasing. They showed this amazing place with lots of great buildings and this big iconic tower at the end. Everyone wanted those spaces and that big tower and instead they started by selling the least appealing of all the buildings. In my opinion they should have started with the larger tower as well as creating a destination, a place with a buzz that people want to come to, whether they live there or not. A line of 4 buildings on half a street does little to entice the outsider to come visit.

hockey157
Jun 29, 2016, 9:31 PM
Yeah, I agree they should've built the big tower first, I think it really would've attracted more people Than the smaller ones they have know

portapetey
Jun 29, 2016, 10:15 PM
I don't know how these sort of things work, but I'd assume they used the sales of the smaller units to generate funding for the larger tower. Then again, they don't seem to have trouble building stuff all over the place.

Colin May
Jun 30, 2016, 12:20 AM
My understanding was that they actually got so much interest that they could have filled the building and that's why in the revised plan there were two towers. Still not sure if that will go ahead or not.

I think the issue with King's Wharf overall was the phasing. They showed this amazing place with lots of great buildings and this big iconic tower at the end. Everyone wanted those spaces and that big tower and instead they started by selling the least appealing of all the buildings. In my opinion they should have started with the larger tower as well as creating a destination, a place with a buzz that people want to come to, whether they live there or not. A line of 4 buildings on half a street does little to entice the outsider to come visit.
If the big tower had been the first building he would have have needed a very substantial number of deposits before any bank would provide construction financing, construction would have taken longer and cash flow would have been an issue. The construction financing for the buildings to date has not been cheap. When he put mortgages on the unsold units of the Anchorage the loan approval signatures at CIBC went through 3 levels of risk analysis right up to a senior VP.
Francis Fares has taken a risk that no others were willing to take and I hope he reaps the rewards.

pblaauw
Jun 30, 2016, 3:54 AM
Does anyone know when or if the iconic tower is scheduled to be built? can't find anything about it

"Fares plans to begin marketing condo units in the planned building in September, and, based on demand, begin construction next summer."

source: the condonova.ca article mentioned above.

q12
Jul 27, 2016, 3:15 PM
Great 5 minute video from yesterday about the Harbour Water Taxi by Global News Morning: (Includes a brief skyline tour.)

http://i68.tinypic.com/2cdu4o9.png

Video Link: http://globalnews.ca/video/2847706/harbour-water-taxi

http://www.harbourtaxi.ca/

someone123
Sep 14, 2016, 2:22 AM
Apparently the developer is now planning to build the 33 storey tower next (and not the pair of ~16 storey towers previously mentioned). It sounds like they have a lot of deposits from potential customers who now get first crack at the units, but that they still have yet to hit the 50% pre-sales target required for financing.

They are also planning to either operate or find somebody to operate a hotel in the lower floors.

No new renderings are available but Rafii Architects are working on the project. Hopefully renderings will be available soon.

eastcoastal
Sep 14, 2016, 1:34 PM
No new renderings are available but Rafii Architects are working on the project. Hopefully renderings will be available soon.

Apparently, they have renderings which they'll share with you if you make a deposit. LOL.

Colin May
Sep 16, 2016, 3:50 AM
Apparently, they have renderings which they'll share with you if you make a deposit. LOL.
Is a refund provided if the buildings don't have curb appeal ?

Jonovision
Sep 20, 2016, 9:27 PM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7762/29192990824_84cb516f61_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LtFH71)20160920_131412 (https://flic.kr/p/LtFH71) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

HalifaxRetales
Nov 28, 2016, 7:39 PM
Press release

"November 28, Halifax – This week Francis Fares has announced the official plans for the next phase in the popular King’s Wharf community – The Maristella. The iconic structure has been in the plans for several years, but now Fares is ready to break ground come the new year.
Inspired by the vast ocean, the dynamic city skyline and the charm of the community in which it resides, The Maristella at King’s Wharf unites contemporary minimalist design with creative living. Each residence combines sophisticated aesthetics and sleek modernism.
“As the in-filling of the peninsula at King’s Wharf continues, plans have been made for what will be the signature building of King’s Wharf and will set the bar for luxury living by the ocean here in the Maritimes,” says Fares.
The building will feature 36 storeys, including two floors of penthouses. There will be an amenities area to rival the best luxury developments in the world, including an indoor pool with views of the stunning Halifax Harbour and city skyline. There will be an exclusive marina, concierge service and electric car shares, two-floors of in-ground parking and many more unique and beautiful details.
Also new for this area, the condominium building will have a hotel at it’s base – utilizing the first 11 floors. The next two floors are for amenities and the residential suites begin on the 14 storey.
“There is nothing like this in this part of the world,” says Fares. “This will be a true destination- the jewel on the Harbour showcasing the beauty of the ocean and the best of modern living.”
Ground breaking is scheduled for fall 2017, with occupancy expected in fall of 2019. Pricing starts at $500k up to $2M.
Attached you will find a package containing detailed floor plans and a list of amenities. Website is still under construction."

http://halifax.retales.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/The-Maristella.pdf

http://halifax.retales.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/CyXsJeYXUAExbYP.jpg

beyeas
Nov 28, 2016, 8:10 PM
Not sure that I would have gone with Caravaggio as one of my choices to name a suite after!

Colin May
Nov 28, 2016, 9:11 PM
Not sure that I would have gone with Caravaggio as one of my choices to name a suite after!
Haha.
The good news is the moon no longer sets in the SW.
The Anchorage has 32 unsold residential condos.

counterfactual
Nov 28, 2016, 9:34 PM
I think it looks great. Could be iconic.

hokus83
Nov 28, 2016, 9:37 PM
Looks ugly and bleak as eff with nowhere to walk around. Looks like a spot I would hate to live more than anywhere else in the city

bluenoser
Nov 28, 2016, 9:43 PM
Halifax & Dartmouth are getting a lot classier lately!

I was also wondering about the surrounding area; how it will end up looking and connecting to the rest of King's Wharf. I concluded that I'm just happy the building is going ahead, and some of those details may be subject to change / further design as we get closer to completion (Fall 2019).

DT Hfx
Nov 28, 2016, 11:32 PM
The tower is tall and slim and looks sharp. The roof-top corner spire extending down the side of the building is simple, classy and suits the design.

OldDartmouthMark
Nov 28, 2016, 11:58 PM
I like it. Perched right out on the water would be a pretty amazing place to live, IMHO. Can you imagine the view (is it OK to talk about views here? lol) from the top floors - it would be pretty spectacular, I think.

The only question mark is whether the surrounding neighborhood will rise to meet it. The indications are good as lower Portland St. seems to be undergoing a bit of a metamorphosis recently. There are also some good bits of undeveloped land in the vicinity that could be spurred to growth by the success of this building.

Besides, if you really are Dartmouthphobic, the ferry is only a 2 minute walk away.

cormiermax
Nov 29, 2016, 9:59 AM
Tacky as sin. Looks like something from Astana...

IanWatson
Nov 29, 2016, 12:52 PM
I was also wondering about the surrounding area; how it will end up looking and connecting to the rest of King's Wharf.

I think those purple footprints on the rendering will be low-rise buildings. The site plan on page four of the PDF shows them (whether or not you can make it to page four without vomiting from the gratuitous marketing-speak is another matter...)

The building looks good in my opinion, though it really is hard to tell from that vague rendering. The units will be pretty sweet. If you're in the market for a penthouse, those ones seem like they'll be a steal of a deal (as far as a penthouse goes). Only $2 million for what will probably be some of the best views in the city.

I don't think this building is approved under the current DA. Fares is rolling the dice a bit (or is really confident) if he's selling units now without approval.

JET
Nov 29, 2016, 4:12 PM
- Heated underground parking with dog wash and car wash bay

connect2source
Nov 30, 2016, 12:37 AM
Would love it more if the spire ( I'm assuming it will be illuminated ) was facing out towards the harbour, sort of a welcoming beacon. Make a lot less sense where it is., otherwise not bad, reminds me of some of the new Burnaby proposals we're seeing here in Metro Vancouver.

eastcoastal
Nov 30, 2016, 3:01 PM
Always suspicious of materiality when something is rendered at night... this isn't even dusk. It's very hard to get a sense of finishes.

scryer
Nov 30, 2016, 9:38 PM
Always suspicious of materiality when something is rendered at night... this isn't even dusk. It's very hard to get a sense of finishes.

Same.

I need to see more renderings before placing any judgements. Butmy first impression is definitely a good one :tup:.

Jonovision
Nov 30, 2016, 10:23 PM
Tacky as sin. Looks like something from Astana...

That was exactly my thoughts?! I'm hoping the design will be refined slightly so its not quite as tacky. The massing is great though.

Dmajackson
Dec 1, 2016, 1:39 AM
Fares has big plans for latest development
JAMES RISDON
Published November 30, 2016 - 6:25pm
Last Updated November 30, 2016 - 7:24pm
Luxury harbour hotel plus condos worth up to $2 million

When the roughly $100-million King’s Wharf Maristella — Italian for Star of the Seas — is finished in three years, hotel patrons will be able to call from the tallest building in the Halifax Regional Municipality for a water taxi to pick them up at their front door.

Developer Francis Fares’ latest building is expected to eclipse the current tallest building, the Fenwick Tower, when it’s completed in 2019.

And it will also feature a marina.

...

Read more at the chronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1420460-fares-has-big-plans-for-latest-development)

pblaauw
Aug 19, 2017, 11:35 PM
Future of King’s Wharf will look different (http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1495731-future-of-king%E2%80%99s-wharf-will-look-different) (Chronicle Herald article)

worldlyhaligonian
Aug 20, 2017, 3:17 PM
Future of King’s Wharf will look different (http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1495731-future-of-king%E2%80%99s-wharf-will-look-different) (Chronicle Herald article)

36 stories? Is that tower approved? The views would be incredible.

Also, it sounds like a better plan... more short townhomes that won't block the existing 4 "towers", a few tall buildings and the marina. Sounds more like a cohesive neighbourhood and the townhomes will be a great place to live when the weather is nice.

mleblanc
Aug 22, 2017, 3:17 AM
Not sure if anyone's seen these as well - but they seem fairly updated and include the new direction that the Herald was talking about. They are from the Breakhouse (http://breakhouse.ca/kings-wharf) website that is partnered with Fares for the project. Looks quite stunning, getting excited to see how this is all going to turn out. Not sure about the beach though:yuck:

http://imgur.com/6FPaizI.jpg
http://imgur.com/cPntoAX.jpg
http://imgur.com/PrcUb6D.jpg
http://imgur.com/TiIrcnp.jpg
http://imgur.com/eBCPQDO.jpg
http://imgur.com/U8Bmrho.jpg
http://imgur.com/kXFB7J4.jpg

Keith P.
Aug 22, 2017, 11:16 AM
The beach is pretty ambitious. So is kayaking in the winter.

Meanwhile I see Frances Fares is being sued by some disgruntled investors.

IanWatson
Aug 22, 2017, 11:53 AM
Some thoughts:

1) Looks great!
2) Jeeze, there are still years and years of construction to do.
3) Hopefully in those years and years I can save up enough to get one of those waterfront townhouses.
4) No second road access???
5) Apparently only white people will go there / are allowed to go there.

eastcoastal
Aug 22, 2017, 6:21 PM
Some thoughts:

...
5) Apparently only white people will go there / are allowed to go there.

Touche. Time for architects to start showing some diversity in their renderings, I guess.

Colin May
Aug 23, 2017, 11:19 PM
The barely visible red hyphenated line starting at Ferry Park Trail defines the boundary of HRM property. HRM could infill part of that water area between the trail, Cove Beach and Beacon Park and then expand the existing park into the water lot and build a public boat launch ramp. Or HRM could fill in the whole area and create an even larger park.

Use viewpoint.ca to see the water lots owned by HRM. http://www.viewpoint.ca/sidebarmap#!

jslath
Aug 27, 2017, 2:00 PM
The barely visible red hyphenated line starting at Ferry Park Trail defines the boundary of HRM property. HRM could infill part of that water area between the trail, Cove Beach and Beacon Park and then expand the existing park into the water lot and build a public boat launch ramp. Or HRM could fill in the whole area and create an even larger park.

Use viewpoint.ca to see the water lots owned by HRM. http://www.viewpoint.ca/sidebarmap#!

...or it could be left as is. :shrug:

Takeo
Aug 27, 2017, 3:23 PM
Some thoughts:
5) Apparently only white people will go there / are allowed to go there.

White people and snowmen ⛄️

Dmajackson
Aug 27, 2017, 4:06 PM
The proposed changes have a HRM case number;

Case 21296 - King's Wharf Place (https://www.halifax.ca/business/planning-development/applications/case-21296-kings-wharf-place-dartmouth)

kph06
Aug 29, 2017, 11:48 AM
Some thoughts:

1) Looks great!
2) Jeeze, there are still years and years of construction to do.
3) Hopefully in those years and years I can save up enough to get one of those waterfront townhouses.
4) No second road access???
5) Apparently only white people will go there / are allowed to go there.

An application is in with the city to defer construction of the 2nd access by 2 years from the previously required April 2017 start date. Additionally they are asking the city to consider looking at other means of access. Fares has already bumped this requirement at least one. Reading between the lines, I don't think they intend to build it. It would be very costly but it was part of the original requirements.

The application is here (application letter (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/business/planning-development/applications/21100%20Minor%20Amendments%202017.pdf) and here (detailed analysis) (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/business/planning-development/applications/21100_2017-03-13%20Kings%20Wharf%20Development-Risk%20Assessment-Draft%20V%201.1%20_Redacted.pdf). Some of the justification seems a little loose to me.

Here are the quoted reasons not to have it from the letter linked above:
- Kings Wharf has a very low incidence of emergency calls – and none of which have every been impeded due to the train or other blockage;
- Further, across HRM, which has many crossings, there is no recollection of an emergency response being impeded by a train;
- Due to a variety of factors, the likelihood of an emergency response being delayed due to an obstruction of our access is statistically very low;
- Medical Assistance, not Fire, is not the most likely incident on this site. As such, response by foot is possible;
- Pursuant to Transport Canada regulations, trains may not occupy a crossing for more than 5 minutes, either stopped, or during shunting. Further, when moving, based upon speed, train length and crossing - arm actuation time, the crossing will not be occupied for more than 5 minutes at a time while moving. CN advises that there are 8 trains per day however this seems high based on casual observation.
- There exists an emergency hotline which connects to CN dispatch where there is a concern that a train may be at risk of blocking the access. This provides for a timely halt or hasten order being delivered to the conductor.
- Anticipated turning movements (cross product risks) are, and will continue to be, substantially lower than the threshold at which CN would require a GSA.


They appear to say that a 5 minute delay is acceptable. 5 minutes could greatly change the outcome of someone in need of paramedic response.

Another item to consider is that the Port Authority has recently said the preferred way forward with future planning is a new container pier on the Imperial refinery lands (this plan seems long term and far fetched). If this happens there would be increased train traffic on this line.

MonctonRad
Aug 29, 2017, 12:09 PM
Another item to consider is that the Port Authority has recently said the preferred way forward with future planning is a new container pier on the Imperial refinery lands (this plan seems long term and far fetched). If this happens there would be increased train traffic on this line.

Somewhat off topic, but a new container facility at Imperoyal would make a nifty replacement for Halterm on the peninsula. This would free up a lot of valuable land for development on the waterfront, eliminate freight trains in the rail cut (perhaps hastening commuter rail to the downtown) and create new possibilities for a potential third harbour crossing.

What are we waiting for??? :)

eastcoastal
Aug 29, 2017, 5:44 PM
An application is in with the city to defer construction of the 2nd access by 2 years from the previously required April 2017 start date. Additionally they are asking the city to consider looking at other means of access. Fares has already bumped this requirement at least one. Reading between the lines, I don't think they intend to build it. It would be very costly but it was part of the original requirements.

The application is here (application letter (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/business/planning-development/applications/21100%20Minor%20Amendments%202017.pdf) and here (detailed analysis) (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/business/planning-development/applications/21100_2017-03-13%20Kings%20Wharf%20Development-Risk%20Assessment-Draft%20V%201.1%20_Redacted.pdf). Some of the justification seems a little loose to me.

...
They appear to say that a 5 minute delay is acceptable. 5 minutes could greatly change the outcome of someone in need of paramedic response.

...

Yikes. I don't think I'd want to live somewhere where the developer thought so little of my safety.

Ziobrop
Aug 30, 2017, 5:22 PM
Somewhat off topic, but a new container facility at Imperoyal would make a nifty replacement for Halterm on the peninsula. This would free up a lot of valuable land for development on the waterfront, eliminate freight trains in the rail cut (perhaps hastening commuter rail to the downtown) and create new possibilities for a potential third harbour crossing.

What are we waiting for??? :)

1. where did you see this?
2. halterm is not going away. period. full stop. its fairvew cove that is now constrained by the bridges, and in need of replacement. also Halterm is only 2 of the piers at the south end - the rest is the ocean terminals, and likewise, not going anywhere.

MonctonRad
Aug 30, 2017, 5:28 PM
1. where did you see this?
2. halterm is not going away. period. full stop. its fairvew cove that is now constrained by the bridges, and in need of replacement. also Halterm is only 2 of the piers at the south end - the rest is the ocean terminals, and likewise, not going anywhere.

Didn't see this anywhere - I was responding to kph06.

The truck traffic generated by Halterm is a pox on the downtown. The land it sits on would be ideal for redevelopment. I'm just stating the obvious.

Also, if CNR didn't need the rail cut for container trains, the lines could be freed up for commuter rail......

someone123
Aug 30, 2017, 6:09 PM
I always thought the argument that the Halterm land is valuable was a bit strange. Yes, it is, but it is infill that was created for the container terminal. The container terminal would have to be moved to make that land available and building a new one would cost in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The net value of the land as a place for new development is probably negative.

Similarly people sometimes say it would be nice just to get rid of the container terminal and shipping but that is one of the bases for the city's economy. Without it there won't be as many people to buy the housing and shop at the businesses that the container terminal could make way for.

There are a bunch of ways to get truck traffic out of downtown Halifax that would have a lower cost than moving the container terminal (inland terminal, rail cut highway, Northwest Arm bridge, third crossing). The fact that none of these has happened is evidence that there's very little will or ability to build new transportation infrastructure of any kind in the Halifax area. This is the major root problem, and the truck traffic is but a symptom. There's been very little improvement during a time when the city's population has increased by 30% or more.

kph06
Sep 1, 2017, 11:25 AM
1. where did you see this?
2. halterm is not going away. period. full stop. its fairvew cove that is now constrained by the bridges, and in need of replacement. also Halterm is only 2 of the piers at the south end - the rest is the ocean terminals, and likewise, not going anywhere.

It's been rumored and reported in a couple local news sources. The Port Authority had the study done, so its not specific to one terminal operator. Even if it happened, I don't think it's on any near term horizon, but within the lifespan when looking at the train crossing at King's Wharf.

I think there's probably two independent things happening. The Port Authority is getting the study done so they have the backup for a big ask for Federal funding to support long term planning to defend against other regional competitors. On another path, Ceres and McQuarrie, the two operators have long been rumored to be in merger talks here as they have already merged elsewhere.

I think they should infill the finger piers at Halterm to have a long north/south pier to focus on multiple 8,000+ TEU ships, and send the smaller ones to Fairview Cove.

lawsond
Oct 9, 2017, 12:17 AM
Didn't see this anywhere - I was responding to kph06.

The truck traffic generated by Halterm is a pox on the downtown. The land it sits on would be ideal for redevelopment. I'm just stating the obvious.

Also, if CNR didn't need the rail cut for container trains, the lines could be freed up for commuter rail......

Was down there this week and thought the same thing. It is a waste of dense urban space. Fairview Cove makes somewhat more sense but Halterm could be its own Kings Wharf and right by the park. It would also make PPPark a much more inviting place.

Keith P.
Oct 9, 2017, 1:36 PM
Was down there this week and thought the same thing. It is a waste of dense urban space. Fairview Cove makes somewhat more sense but Halterm could be its own Kings Wharf and right by the park. It would also make PPPark a much more inviting place.

I have posted this before but in the late 1990s I saw a set of plans at a local engineer's office for redevelopment of Halterm into a local Marina del Rey type of community (aside from the palm trees). It was fairly spectacular.

ILoveHalifax
Oct 9, 2017, 9:09 PM
I have posted this before but in the late 1990s I saw a set of plans at a local engineer's office for redevelopment of Halterm into a local Marina del Rey type of community (aside from the palm trees). It was fairly spectacular.

How about a few palm trees in heated glass domes?

someone123
Oct 9, 2017, 9:38 PM
How about a few palm trees in heated glass domes?

This is a tangent but the climate there is close to being able to support some palm trees outside year-round. There's a huge variety of palm trees. Some cannot get anywhere near freezing and others are hardy to -15 or -20, which is around the coldest it gets in the milder parts of Nova Scotia (some weather stations in NS have never had a night that got down to -20). People grow palms in areas like Rhode Island which are only marginally warmer in winter. Factor in climate change and I won't be surprised if palms become somewhat common in front yards in Halifax in 2050.

Vancouver can get down to -10 in the winter and many plants that Canadians would think of as exotic survive this without protection. One problem in is that you can plant things that will survive 90% of the winters but then they will die off once a decade on average.

beyeas
Oct 10, 2017, 9:25 AM
This is a tangent but the climate there is close to being able to support some palm trees outside year-round. There's a huge variety of palm trees. Some cannot get anywhere near freezing and others are hardy to -15 or -20, which is around the coldest it gets in the milder parts of Nova Scotia (some weather stations in NS have never had a night that got down to -20). People grow palms in areas like Rhode Island which are only marginally warmer in winter. Factor in climate change and I won't be surprised if palms become somewhat common in front yards in Halifax in 2050.

Vancouver can get down to -10 in the winter and many plants that Canadians would think of as exotic survive this without protection. One problem in is that you can plant things that will survive 90% of the winters but then they will die off once a decade on average.

Funny enough I was just wondering the same thing yesterday. I’m in Dublin this week and was surprised at how many homes have tropical plants in their yards!

terrynorthend
Oct 16, 2017, 2:18 AM
Any news regarding the Maristella ground breaking? Plans were for a Fall 2017 start.

Colin May
Oct 18, 2017, 8:39 PM
Any news regarding the Maristella ground breaking? Plans were for a Fall 2017 start.
Fares changes his story on a regular basis. Don't believe anything until you see the equipment on the site.
We went to The Roy showroom to see what the QE2 lottery condo prize looks like. Saleman wanted to know if we were buying to live or buying to rent. Apparently more people are 'investing' in the condos with the idea that they'll rent out for short term visitors.

terrynorthend
Oct 18, 2017, 10:40 PM
Fares changes his story on a regular basis. Don't believe anything until you see the equipment on the site.
We went to The Roy showroom to see what the QE2 lottery condo prize looks like. Saleman wanted to know if we were buying to live or buying to rent. Apparently more people are 'investing' in the condos with the idea that they'll rent out for short term visitors.

As in, AirBNB?

mleblanc
Oct 18, 2017, 11:41 PM
As in, AirBNB?

Most condos have contracts against renting out for AirBNB, but allow longer lease rentals, at least it was like that in Vancouver

Colin May
Oct 19, 2017, 2:49 AM
As in, AirBNB?

No.
As in 'Executive suites' - business people in town for a few weeks/months.
And the building may become part 'owner occupiers' and part 'owner renters'.
Looks like the condo market has almost run its course and some buildings end up with some units owned and other units rented by the developer.
The Lofts was proposed as a condo and is now advertised as apartments.

DigitalNinja
Oct 19, 2017, 9:23 AM
No.
As in 'Executive suites' - business people in town for a few weeks/months.
And the building may become part 'owner occupiers' and part 'owner renters'.
Looks like the condo market has almost run its course and some buildings end up with some units owned and other units rented by the developer.
The Lofts was proposed as a condo and is now advertised as apartments.

I think part of it is how ridiculous the condo fees have been getting. Yes sure it may be nice to have certain things but paying an extra $400+ a month on-top of a mortgage will turn off a lot of buyers. I know that when I return to Halifax we will be looking at a house instead of a condo due to being able to get a lot more for our money.

OldDartmouthMark
Oct 19, 2017, 1:35 PM
I think part of it is how ridiculous the condo fees have been getting. Yes sure it may be nice to have certain things but paying an extra $400+ a month on-top of a mortgage will turn off a lot of buyers. I know that when I return to Halifax we will be looking at a house instead of a condo due to being able to get a lot more for our money.

To be honest, I don't know why people buy condos these days, with condo fees and the potential for unexpected repair bills as outlined in this article from a couple of years ago:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/condo-workmanship-problems-1.3302025

That, combined with the potential for not being able to sell it later would be enough to deter me, anyhow...

Drybrain
Oct 19, 2017, 1:51 PM
I think part of it is how ridiculous the condo fees have been getting. Yes sure it may be nice to have certain things but paying an extra $400+ a month on-top of a mortgage will turn off a lot of buyers. I know that when I return to Halifax we will be looking at a house instead of a condo due to being able to get a lot more for our money.

I don't really understand new-build condo prices in Halifax. They're a bargain compared to prices in many other cities, but, compared to the price of houses in the city, they don't offer much, if any, price advantage. Yeah, you'll get brand-new appliances and fixtures, etc., whereas most houses don't come with those perks, and may involved pricey renovations. But besides a relatively small niche, the consumer preference for houses over apartments is still strong and those are pretty minor deterrents for most people. This is noticeable even in cities with strong price advantages for the latter.

Yes, some people prefer apartment living. But I'd say that most people, faced with the choice between a condo for 300-400k or a fixer upper on the peninsula in the same range, would go for the latter. If you can get a small house in a desirable neighbourhood for not much more than a two-bedroom condo, the house will usually win out, even among younger buyers.

Maybe things are rebalancing, though: according to Royal LePage (http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/detached-homes-in-halifax-continue-healthy-price-growth-in-third-quarter-650555623.html), prices increased substantially for all housing types last year, except condos, which dropped substantially.

DT Hfx
Oct 19, 2017, 7:25 PM
I agree. I would never consider buying a condo that was not centered in the downtown. However, I would much rather live in a condo in the center of the downtown than live in a house on the outskirts of downtown. I imagine a lot of people like the idea of living several floors up surrounding by urbanity....and the only way to do that is by buying a condo if you don't want to rent. It is worth paying double or triple per square foot for the right location.

someone123
Oct 19, 2017, 9:15 PM
Yeah, when it comes to a building like the Roy it's hard to come up with an apples-to-apples house comparison. There aren't any detached houses in that area. Similarly for King's Wharf there isn't much in a prime location like that, although they might build townhouses there in the future. I doubt those townhouses will be affordable.

It's the condos in areas like Young Street that are more comparable to houses around the peninsula. Generally speaking there's a trade-off around whether or not you want to do maintenance work on your own property. A condo is a lot less work. Seniors in particular tend to prefer them.

It is pretty common for me to hear or read that the condo market will be "saturated". In fact I've heard that for as long as I've paid any attention. Probably 15 years or more. Without talking about specific levels of construction and time frames this type of conversation is meaningless. Condo construction is cyclical and waxes and wanes but there is steady demand for new building stock due to population growth, economic growth (i.e. people can afford larger and nicer places so they want new builds or renos), and the general decline of older housing stock. Talking about housing demand being permanently statisfied is kind of like suggesting we don't need food anymore because people already eat too many cheeseburgers. The time scale is just different.

Colin May
Oct 19, 2017, 11:29 PM
Yeah, when it comes to a building like the Roy it's hard to come up with an apples-to-apples house comparison. There aren't any detached houses in that area. Similarly for King's Wharf there isn't much in a prime location like that, although they might build townhouses there in the future. I doubt those townhouses will be affordable.

It's the condos in areas like Young Street that are more comparable to houses around the peninsula. Generally speaking there's a trade-off around whether or not you want to do maintenance work on your own property. A condo is a lot less work. Seniors in particular tend to prefer them.

It is pretty common for me to hear or read that the condo market will be "saturated". In fact I've heard that for as long as I've paid any attention. Probably 15 years or more. Without talking about specific levels of construction and time frames this type of conversation is meaningless. Condo construction is cyclical and waxes and wanes but there is steady demand for new building stock due to population growth, economic growth (i.e. people can afford larger and nicer places so they want new builds or renos), and the general decline of older housing stock. Talking about housing demand being permanently statisfied is kind of like suggesting we don't need food anymore because people already eat too many cheeseburgers. The time scale is just different.
Every month I download sales/transfer information for Halifax, Dartmouth and Bedford. About 25-30% of all transactions are between related persons where no Deed Transfer Tax is payable.
Three years after completion half the units of the 82 unit condo St Lawrence on Dutch Village Road remain unsold,41 of the 82 condos. In the last 12 months only 3 condos have been sold. Will the Young Street condo do any better - I doubt it.
High end condos with an unrestricted view of green space or the harbour and in a central location cater appear to sell quite well. Younger couples in metro can afford single family homes on the peninsula and central Dartmouth and a couple such as a police officer($100K) and a teacher ($70K) can easily afford a detached home - you cannot say that about markets in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary.

Keith P.
Oct 20, 2017, 12:23 AM
I can see the appeal of condos for some but it is hardly a slam-dunk. You are getting things like amenities, maintenance and possibly location but trading for that in return for having to put up with elevators, noise, scents, lack of outdoor space, and having other people in your living environment. At one point those things would not have bothered me and as I get older they may become more acceptable again in return for not having the responsibilities of a house but for a lot of people having their own property is everything.

Drybrain
Oct 20, 2017, 2:33 AM
It is pretty common for me to hear or read that the condo market will be "saturated". In fact I've heard that for as long as I've paid any attention. Probably 15 years or more. Without talking about specific levels of construction and time frames this type of conversation is meaningless. Condo construction is cyclical and waxes and wanes but there is steady demand for new building stock due to population growth, economic growth (i.e. people can afford larger and nicer places so they want new builds or renos), and the general decline of older housing stock. Talking about housing demand being permanently statisfied is kind of like suggesting we don't need food anymore because people already eat too many cheeseburgers. The time scale is just different.

I don't think the housing market is saturated; not by a longshot. I just think condos in Halifax have in recent years been overpriced (which the frequent reversion to rentals seems to bear out).

Something like The Roy or King's Wharf is indeed different, and is aiming at a wholly different market. But the six-eight storey infill buildings in the North End are aiming at the same demographic that would be looking at a saltbox or rowhouse in the same area for a not especially greater price.

The future for the city is still going to be one of more and taller buildings throughout the centre of the city, and a growing proportion of the population living in condos/apartments. The relative prices of housing types have been a bit out of whack in recent years, is all.

DT Hfx says that he'd rather be in a condo in the centre of the city rather than a house on the outskirts of downtown, and there are surely others who feel that way, but just objectively speaking, that's definitely a minority of buyers in this market (or probably any Canadian market). Personally, I could be pretty happy in an ultra-downtown condo, but my partner prefers to live in a house a bit further out on the peninsula. I have to admit, she's the one with the more common preference.

DT Hfx
Oct 20, 2017, 2:43 AM
Condos can offer an ultra urban lifestyle; that is their sole advantage. Without that advantage they won't sell at bungalow prices. Even though it offered nice floor plans at decent prices, the Monaghan condo project failed because of it's location on Young St. On the other hand if the Pearl (beside Citadel Hill) had been condos it would have sold out.

IanWatson
Oct 20, 2017, 2:16 PM
Condos can offer an ultra urban lifestyle; that is their sole advantage.

Not entirely true. If that was the case you wouldn't see people buying condos in Spryfield (if I'm not mistaken, Halifax Condo Corp #1 is actually the Cowie Hill townhouses). Condos also offer fewer worries about maintenance, plus the possibility of shared amenities (pools, guest suites, etc.).

OldDartmouthMark
Oct 20, 2017, 3:13 PM
Not entirely true. If that was the case you wouldn't see people buying condos in Spryfield (if I'm not mistaken, Halifax Condo Corp #1 is actually the Cowie Hill townhouses). Condos also offer fewer worries about maintenance, plus the possibility of shared amenities (pools, guest suites, etc.).

Agreed. I think with the demographics of an aging population ensures there will be a good market for condos in the foreseeable future. Removing the hassles of home ownership will certainly be attractive to older residents with declining physical abilities or for those just wanting to spend their time doing other things. Not to mention the lack of worries in vacating it for several months, such as in the case of snowbirds.

I should also clarify in my post above that I meant the difference in buying vs renting a condo, and not the difference between buying a condo and buying a house - they are apples and oranges in my opinion. There are certainly different and viable reasons for preferring one over the other. I wasn't very clear about that point in my post above.

An other very important point of buying vs renting for older residents is the ability to sell one's house and use the principal to live their retirement years the way they want to, rather than have all their money tied up in an expensive purchase. :2cents:

someone123
Oct 20, 2017, 3:52 PM
I don't think the housing market is saturated; not by a longshot. I just think condos in Halifax have in recent years been overpriced (which the frequent reversion to rentals seems to bear out).

I was responding more to Colin May who has been posting stuff about how condos aren't selling for years now.

I think the fact that older people trade in houses for condos and the fact that the condo market is small tends to inflate prices in cities like Halifax. A lot of people like to buy into shiny new buildings and there are only a couple of these at any given time. The developers know that the buyers are downsizing and have a lot of cash to spend.

Here in Vancouver there is almost no rental construction. Developers can get more money selling off condos then selling or operating apartment buildings. I think this is mostly because there is a lot of speculation and all real estate is treated as an investment. Arguably, these investors are subsidizing their tenants in many cases. Most amateur real estate investors in Canada lose money every month on their purchases but make up for it with rising property values. If the increases stop it's going to get interesting. Halifax housing hasn't gone up much in value so the temptation to engage in this kind of speculation is much lower.

DT Hfx
Oct 20, 2017, 6:02 PM
My point is condos traditionally offered a cheaper alternative to a house and that itself can be sufficient appeal to make them salable almost anywhere. But if developers expect to sell pricey units they have to offer something really special such as being in the center of downtown.

Colin May
Oct 21, 2017, 3:09 AM
As I wrote previously, condos will sell in better locations of HRM.
A couple planning a family in HRM will rent then buy a house. And the turnover in my area is older sellers and 30 something buyers.
When discussing condos it helps if you have the names of owners and like anything else the devil is in the details.
The Anchorage, 88 units and first sale June 2013. As of today 3 commercial units and 28 residential units are unsold.

Takeo
Oct 21, 2017, 10:11 AM
The Anchorage, 88 units and first sale June 2013. As of today 3 commercial units and 28 residential units are unsold.

Last spring I was told The Avery has old sold 12 units. Beautiful building. Stunning. But most of the units are around half a million dollars+. It’s nuts.

DT Hfx
Oct 21, 2017, 12:00 PM
Those condo developers who demand high per-sq-ft prices would make more profit by concentrating on their niche market in the center of downtown Halifax going after those customers who prioritize an urban lifestyle. The Avery and King’s Wharf make a great improvement to the look of the area but unfortunately the downtown is not nearly substantial enough to bring out enough buyers at those high prices.
But I do hope I am wrong and the Maristella attracts enough interest to get built.

Colin May
Oct 22, 2017, 1:59 AM
Last spring I was told The Avery has old sold 12 units. Beautiful building. Stunning. But most of the units are around half a million dollars+. It’s nuts.
A few months ago I noted 15 units occupied,including the superintendent.
There are 45 units. An HRM planner tried to convince the developer to ask for another 2 storeys.
One penthouse unit is for sale at $899,900 for less than 1,700 sq ft !!
Great view of the harbour.... until the HRM owned empty lot on the opposite side of Alderney Drive lot is developed.
Can anybody tell me why The Maple is an apartment building and not a condo ? I see lots of BBQs and chairs on the balconies.
Rental details : Only 33 units available http://apartments.southwest.ca/apartments/ns/halifax/maple-2/floorplans.aspx

DT Hfx
Oct 22, 2017, 9:25 PM
Can anybody tell me why The Maple is an apartment building and not a condo?
I asked them that very question last year; I was told "the developer prefers to keep his developments". To add to the rental portfolio I guess. The Maple is collecting very high rents so I imagine that is the way to the highest return over the long run.

DT Hfx
Oct 22, 2017, 9:35 PM
Rental details : Only 33 units available http://apartments.southwest.ca/apartments/ns/halifax/maple-2/floorplans.aspx

The Maple has 281 units - so it is 88% occupied already. That's impressive.

planarchy
Oct 22, 2017, 11:34 PM
My point is condos traditionally offered a cheaper alternative to a house and that itself can be sufficient appeal to make them salable almost anywhere. But if developers expect to sell pricey units they have to offer something really special such as being in the center of downtown.

Condominium or strata housing is simply a type of tenure. It has nothing to do with context and its a more recent phenomenon to have the 3 of condos built in the inner city. The first condominium corporation in Halifax was in Clayton Park, with Cowie Hill close behind, then all the redevelopment of the former Rockhead Prison in the north end. The earliest condos around here were townhouse-style in the early 1970s, townhouse and apartment-style in the Rockhead area. Townhouse was very common early on, but then you have all the apartment style along Spring Garden/Coburg. More recently, we have bare-land condos like Glen Arbour, where you build your own house on an exclusive use lot.

Halifax is a weird market, because unlike most markets, we build our rentals to condo quality or sometimes better. Dexel (Lawen), Southwest (Spatz), Universal (Suissa), Westwood (Chedraewe) all build almost exclusively rentals and hold on to them. They quality of construction by these developers is often far superior to WM Fares and United Gulf who like to build condos. Other markets often have to incentivize developers to get this type and amount of rental. CMHC is working hard to provide incentives for rental construction, but they recognize that these programs have no use in Halifax.

As others have said, the condo market is very soft in Halifax. Why buy a $400,000 condo when you can get a detached house? The Avery has sold 12 of 71 units. Q-lofts took years to get any amount of units sold. The price per foot to build quality units is too high in Halifax.

Colin May
Oct 25, 2017, 3:02 AM
I asked them that very question last year; I was told "the developer prefers to keep his developments". To add to the rental portfolio I guess. The Maple is collecting very high rents so I imagine that is the way to the highest return over the long run.
A condo property produces greater property tax revenue as well as deed transfer tax (DTT) every time a unit is sold.
Avonhurst has 213 rental units and is assessed for 2018 at a little under $37 million. Do the math, if every unit sold at $150,000 the sales generate $479,500 in DTT.

IanWatson
Oct 25, 2017, 11:42 AM
I suspect in the current market holding on to rentals is more profitable in the long term compared to selling condos, but it also means you have to tie up capital and also have the management structure in place to manage the rental buildings. In other words, you're both a developer and a landlord. Different business models that appeal to different companies.

Halifax
Feb 2, 2018, 7:31 PM
Anyone hear anything on king's wharf and the status of the Maristella - last I heard was of legal issues and I would love to see this get going!

kph06
Feb 3, 2018, 12:15 AM
There is a long boom excavator on site, it looks like it is working on the breakwater near the marina. No activity on the Maristella site. We are probably due for a new concept plan for the site, they seem to change their mid each year.

someone123
Feb 3, 2018, 1:50 AM
There is a long boom excavator on site, it looks like it is working on the breakwater near the marina. No activity on the Maristella site. We are probably due for a new concept plan for the site, they seem to change their mid each year.

The Maristella renderings released so far looked rough and preliminary. I wasn't a big fan of the style but then again it's hard to tell exactly how the rendering would have translated into a final product.

The idea of a 36 storey tower on this site is really interesting though. It would be a landmark in the harbour.

hoser111
Feb 28, 2018, 2:28 AM
Killam Properties acquires King’s Wharf building the Killick

In Killam REIT’s 2017 year-end presentation to unitholders, the real estate investment trust revealed that it had reached agreements to invest $39 million in two properties during the first quarter of 2018.

One of the acquisitions was a $33 million purchase of the recently completed Killick, a 12-storey, 110-unit apartment building — part of the King’s Wharf development in downtown Dartmouth, where the Dartmouth Marine Slips once stood.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1549253-killam-properties-acquires-king%E2%80%99s-wharf-building-the-killick?utm_source=email&utm_medium=business_insider&utm_campaign=business_insider

Interesting that Fares states that the next building going up is 24 stories. Doesn't sound like the Maristella.

Colin May
Feb 28, 2018, 7:42 PM
Killam Properties acquires King’s Wharf building the Killick

In Killam REIT’s 2017 year-end presentation to unitholders, the real estate investment trust revealed that it had reached agreements to invest $39 million in two properties during the first quarter of 2018.

One of the acquisitions was a $33 million purchase of the recently completed Killick, a 12-storey, 110-unit apartment building — part of the King’s Wharf development in downtown Dartmouth, where the Dartmouth Marine Slips once stood.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1549253-killam-properties-acquires-king%E2%80%99s-wharf-building-the-killick?utm_source=email&utm_medium=business_insider&utm_campaign=business_insider

Interesting that Fares states that the next building going up is 24 stories. Doesn't sound like the Maristella.
Killam press release of February 13 2018 mentions the purchase. News travels slow to Nova Scotia.
The banks will be happy, they have lent him millions.
There are 29 unsold residential units and 2 unsold commercial units in the Anchorage. Aqua Vista has 3 unsold residential units.

someone123
Feb 28, 2018, 8:00 PM
In the latest development agreement, the only 24 storey component is lot E, which is at the Alderney Drive end (still over the rail line) and south of the existing buildings. It looks like a fairly narrow tower with a larger podium.

The Maristella is interesting in that it would be a new tallest for the city but lot E also looks significant in terms of making this feel like more of a neighbouhood instead of just a row of towers.

Development of the parking lot on King Street would probably be the biggest single improvement in terms of filling out downtown Dartmouth. Despite the infill that has been happening there, there are still half a dozen or so prominent surface lots that feel like holes in the urban fabric.

Colin May
Mar 1, 2018, 4:34 AM
In the latest development agreement, the only 24 storey component is lot E, which is at the Alderney Drive end (still over the rail line) and south of the existing buildings. It looks like a fairly narrow tower with a larger podium.

The Maristella is interesting in that it would be a new tallest for the city but lot E also looks significant in terms of making this feel like more of a neighbouhood instead of just a row of towers.

Development of the parking lot on King Street would probably be the biggest single improvement in terms of filling out downtown Dartmouth. Despite the infill that has been happening there, there are still half a dozen or so prominent surface lots that feel like holes in the urban fabric.
Here is a job for you :
Calculate the amount of shale which will have to be removed and then calculate the cost.
March 31 2018 marks the 40th anniversary of expropriation of the lot by Dartmouth City Council. The empty lot was assessed at $0 until last year when the assessment was $2,892,900; this year the assessment is the same.

OldDartmouthMark
Mar 21, 2018, 10:30 PM
For interests sake, here's what the King's Wharf site looked like in the 1950s when it was the Dartmouth shipyard:

http://gencat1.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/systems/halifax/resource/6000_1038_5005176_101-80c-1-3-9.jpgplu_p1bujjbea11cmc1ter1bdl8o21f1g1.jpg

Source (http://gencat1.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/request/DoMenuRequest?SystemName=Halifax+Regional+Municipality+Archives&UserName=WA+Public&Password=&TemplateProcessID=6000_20185_20185&CMD_(SearchRequest)[11]=&PromptID=&ParamID=&RequesterType=SearchTemplate&browseData=1&Keyword=0&SearchLogic=%26Logic%3D%26S1%3DPOI1_1225%261POI1_1225%3D827)

For comparison, Google's 3D map view:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6520857,-63.5681248,599a,35y,15.46h,65.98t/data=!3m1!1e3

IanWatson
Mar 22, 2018, 12:02 PM
Interesting how much larger Sawmill River was before Alderny Drive was built.