[skyscraper_1]

The New Heart of Halifax Harbour
Fares Real Estate Inc is planning to develop King's Wharf, a multi-phased, mixed use, waterfront development situated in Dartmouth Cove on Halifax Harbour.

The project vision combines a lifestyle centre - urban village feeling with world class architecture and construction quality. King's Wharf will offer Dartmouthians, residential purchasers, the working community, shoppers, tourists, and Nova Scotians the opportunity to enjoy a world class, legacy development.

The development concept currently envisions:

* 1200 residential condominiums
* 200 room Hotel and Convention Center
* Hotel condominium suites
* 100,000 SF of mixed retail shopping
* 40,000 SF of commercial space.
http://www.faresinc.com/

http://www.faresinc.com/images/New%20Renderings/New%20Renderings/presentation.jpg

http://www.faresinc.com/images/New%20Renderings/New%20Renderings/26.jpg

An older rendering. I am not sure if it is still valid
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/447565437_06e91bac25_o.jpg

This is one project I am looking forward too. Downtown Dartmouth and its skyline will change drastically...for the better. :)

[terrynorthend]

This thread should be moved to the Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth section. (otherwise it might get deleted on us)

Having said that, I'm excited to hear more about King's Wharf. I hope this project moves quickly through the approval processes.

Terry

[skyscraper_1]

Right....I was thinking it was Dartmouth and suburbs for some reason...

[Jonovision]

I was poking around the website today and they have a nice space in the newsroom section to post what kind of amenities you would like to see built into this project. You can also read what others have said, and get an idea of what the general public think of the project.

[Seely32]

On more news on this project??

I hoping this gets built and it will give me an excuse to go to dartmouth when i visit halifax.

[someone123]

No idea what the story is with this one really. It's supposed to be built in phases. I remember at one point that they said sales were going slowly, but at the time there was no marketing. I don't even know if this development is approved yet.

[Wishblade]

No idea what the story is with this one really. It's supposed to be built in phases. I remember at one point that they said sales were going slowly, but at the time there was no marketing. I don't even know if this development is approved yet.

Correct me if Im wrong, but if their doing sales, I would be under the impression that its approved.

If I remember back, the feedback from the public was generally good, except for a few people who would be losing a view that they don't even own :rolleyes:

[Jonovision]

This project has not been approved yet. It still has to go to regional council at some point. One would hope that that would be within the next year. I think the developers were just scouting out potential buyers. They seem to be taking their sweet time fine tuning every little thing though.

[someone123]

It's not even clear what this development will end up looking like since the renderings keep changing.

Not sure if it would be appealed or not. Hopefully if the developers of this project do plan on a tower they will separate it from the rest (although I guess that could backfire since it's no longer measured against the benefits of everything else).

[Jonovision]

I don't know? I've heard some opposition to the tower, but non of them had any real reason to oppose it. So therefore there would be no standing in any appeal. Also, I remember the developer took the time to go someones house who's views would be affected and made up renderings showing the person and the public what the new view would entail. After that, that person thought it was a good idea. This just shows how the developer is really trying to work out all the bugs before it goes to council.

[phrenic]

I emailed the developer the other day with a few questions regarding a time line for the project and such and got the following response:

Dear Aaron,

Thank-you for your interest in King’s Wharf.

This spectacular Halifax Harbour project is currently evolving through design and development approval stages so I do not have accurate timelines. We are not pre-selling condominiums yet; this will occur when we have a better idea of our project timelines.
I will add your name to our contact list and email you when we have more details available. Please feel free to participate in our forum where we are seeking ideas on how we can incorporate public space into our development here http://www.mtlpr.ca/kingswharf/
Should you have any questions, we would be pleased to discuss them at any time and share any further information on King’s Wharf.


Doesn't seem like they even know much yet. Their comment page is hosted by MT&L, a public relations firm. So I would imagine they are going to some effort to make sure they please as many people as possible with the development.

[Wishblade]

http://www.yourwish.ca/

^A friend of mine just showed me this site. It is a site where they are specifically looking for public input as to what they would like to see done with the project. So if anyone has an opinion they want to make known, it might be a good place to voice it :tup:

[worldlyhaligonian]

http://www.yourwish.ca/images/header.jpg

The header on that webpage gives a cool perspective of what the project will look like from a perspective like you are level with the development.

[Wishblade]

Developer confident project will happen soon
King's Wharf still waiting to resolve a few issues
JOANIE VEITCH - THE WEEKLY NEWS


After nearly three years of talk, it looks as though Dartmouth may soon see some action on the King's Wharf waterfront development project.

Recent discussions between Francis Fares, the developer of the project, Tim Olive of the Downtown Dartmouth Business Commission and senior municipal planning staff, resulted in a "reassessment of the economic impact of this project," Olive said in an interview last week at his downtown office.

The $300 million, multi-phased project is planned for the Dartmouth Marine Slips site and encompasses a 200-room hotel and convention centre, 1,200 condo units and a combined 140,000 square foot commercial and office space over the next five to seven years.

It's a huge project that will not only have a large economic impact on Dartmouth, it will put millions of dollars in to the coffers of HRM, Olive said.

"To put that anywhere in HRM would be valuable, to put it in downtown Dartmouth ... it is the catalyst for our economic future," Olive said. "Everyone's waiting to see something happen on this site."

In the intervening months - and years - since the project was first announced, the lack of progress on development had more than a few people wondering if it was even going to go ahead. Olive said he knows a few property owners in the downtown core of Dartmouth are waiting for something to happen before proceeding with their own redevelopment plans.

"I'm at a loss to understand how it could go on this long without someone at HRM asking what's happening with this project. Up until now it appeared it wasn't a priority from the perspective of HRM senior staff," he said.

While the wait has been frustrating, developer Francis Fares said he appreciates that HRM staff have had a lot to deal with over the past few years. "It's a big project and they've been very busy with other projects ... but I'm feeling very positive there's an effort to make this happen now."

There are still five substantive issues to be resolved before the development goes before council for final approval, however. These issues deal with engineering drawings and view plane restrictions from Brightwood Golf Course.

"There is still work to be done, but those issues can all be resolved fairly easily," Olive said.

The largest issue has to do with vehicular access to the site. The property is adjacent to CN and although HRM owns the land, the rail line runs through it.

To comply with fire regulations, an access road has to be open and clear at all times, which means simply putting a road across the railway tracks is not sufficient and another access has to be built.

"It's an issue that both CN and HRM will have to resolve," Olive said. "The hope is that all those matters will be resolved before the project goes before regional council."

Once the project has gone through council, the next step is begin "bringing to life" the first phase of the project, the condominium development.

"We will begin with the condominiums then build the office and commercial part to support that," Fares said.

Olive, for one, will be very happy when construction actually begins (which Fares estimates will likely be by fall) as he won't be fielding so many questions about the project.

"People want to know about this ... members of the public, the business community ... I'm getting calls all the time on this," he said. "People are very excited about this project."

[hfx_chris]

The largest issue has to do with vehicular access to the site. The property is adjacent to CN and although HRM owns the land, the rail line runs through it.

To comply with fire regulations, an access road has to be open and clear at all times, which means simply putting a road across the railway tracks is not sufficient and another access has to be built.
Oh, just like Alderney Gate? Funny, the access road to the parking lot there goes over the rail line as well, and I don't know of any other access route that doesn't require you to drive over the rail line...


view plane restrictions from Brightwood Golf Course....oh come on!! Now they're just being silly.

[someone123]

Alderney Gate doesn't have any residents, so maybe that explains the difference. Still, access doesn't seem like it would technically be difficult. I guess it is just a bureaucratic issue.

The Brightwood view planes are amusing given the fact that the course itself would have been redeveloped if not for the opposition of the neighbours.

[Jonovision]

This is great news! Construction in fall! Wow, that would be amazing. I'm excited to see what other developments this spawn in the area.

[Haliguy]

This is great news! Construction in fall! Wow, that would be amazing. I'm excited to see what other developments this spawn in the area.

Its looking good for a lot of construction this year. Salters Landing, Twisted Sisters, Kings Wharf and I read in the papaer this morning that the developer of the Trinty church site wants to start construction this fall.

[terrynorthend]

Its looking good for a lot of construction this year. Salters Landing, Twisted Sisters, Kings Wharf and I read in the papaer this morning that the developer of the Trinty church site wants to start construction this fall. (sic)

Well this is what sort of scares me. So many massive developments on the boards at once. Can HRM support all these condos and hotel rooms? Will developers be stymied by poor economics, especially if they each take one another's proposals into account in their feasibility studies? A question to all forumers; what is your take on this?

[sdm]

Well this is what sort of scares me. So many massive developments on the boards at once. Can HRM support all these condos and hotel rooms? Will developers be stymied by poor economics, especially if they each take one another's proposals into account in their feasibility studies? A question to all forumers; what is your take on this?

Twisted sisters will be at best 2010 before anything starts, if it starts at all. It will likely be sold.

Salters street will be on hold, which is been the custom for the site many times as the economics aren't there for 2,500 plus a month rentals.

Hotels at 60% occupancy don't work, and if we continue to increase the inventory it will see many hotels fail.

Kings Wharf is 2 years away at best.

[terrynorthend]

Salters street will be on hold, which is been the custom for the site many times as the economics aren't there for 2,500 plus a month rentals.

Are you referring to Centennial Development's property just north of Bishops Landing?

[someone123]

There are other projects as well, e.g. brewery tower, South Park, maybe Herald lands.

Absorption for apartments and condos downtown is in the range of a couple hundred a year for average priced units. That is basically one project like United Gulf or two smaller ones like what is proposed for the Trinity site. Of course, many projects take more than one year to go from pre-sales to being fully complete.

I think it's very unlikely to see construction spontaneously start on everything at once, but I hope we do see a couple of major projects start up this spring. Keep in mind the fact that there is also office demand downtown. I'm guessing we will see one or two decent office projects soon.

Would the Centennial rental units really be that expensive or would that just be the higher end ones? In the Paramount there were also some $2,500+ apartments.

[Wishblade]

Twisted sisters will be at best 2010 before anything starts, if it starts at all. It will likely be sold.

Salters street will be on hold, which is been the custom for the site many times as the economics aren't there for 2,500 plus a month rentals.

Hotels at 60% occupancy don't work, and if we continue to increase the inventory it will see many hotels fail.

Kings Wharf is 2 years away at best.


Im going to be slightly more optimistic.

No I don't believe there is the market or economic activity right now to support all of these projects starting this year, but Im thinking that atleast 1 or 2 of them will start in the Fall. Im going to put my bets on those being Kings Wharf, and the 19 story tower on the trinity lands. Just a hunch I guess.

As for salters gate, I would expect that to follow within the next 2 years, and UG probably will start shortly after that.

[phrenic]

One thing to consider about potential condo sales for the UG project in particular is the amount of media attention it has received since it was first proposed. It's story has even been featured in the Globe and Mail at least once.

Everyone, and I mean everyone knows what it is and where it will be built which may impact sales to some extent.

I'm not trying to imply that it will be Halifax's equivalent to 1 Bloor East (http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_16483.aspx) or anything, but it is a pretty high profile project for this area.

But anyway this is getting off the topic of King's Wharf.

[someone123]

One thing to consider about potential condo sales for the UG project in particular is the amount of media attention it has received since it was first proposed. It's story has even been featured in the Globe and Mail at least once.

I agree. It is the kind of project that might even appeal to buyers outside the city. The same thing goes for the Centennial Group development since it is right along the waterfront.

[phrenic]

Ironically, the fact that the Heritage Trust kept it tied up for so long (thus giving it more media attention than usual) may end up leading to quicker sales.

[Haliguy]

Are you referring to Centennial Development's property just north of Bishops Landing?

Is this true?

[hfx_chris]

This whole viewplane from Brightwood thing seems like a non-issue to me. Just looking at a map, it looks like the only real view that this may block is the lovely view of Woodside and the refinery.

Interestingly, the heritage folks were all up in arms about the Twisted Sisters blocking viewplanes as well... and what did we determine the Twisted Sisters would block? The view of the refinery.

What is it with these people and looking at the refinery?

[someone123]

The refinery itself is actually somewhat historic. It's been there since 1918. ;)

[Keith P.]

This whole viewplane from Brightwood thing seems like a non-issue to me. Just looking at a map, it looks like the only real view that this may block is the lovely view of Woodside and the refinery.

Interestingly, the heritage folks were all up in arms about the Twisted Sisters blocking viewplanes as well... and what did we determine the Twisted Sisters would block? The view of the refinery.

What is it with these people and looking at the refinery?


I can't believe there is actually something protecting the view from Brightwood. That view is the one from the 7th tee and having seen it numerous times it is a nice view, not just of the refinery but also of the mouth of the harbor. But let's be realistic: it is one building we are discussing here that will not impair the view to any extent; and that view is enjoyed by a very small number of people, the 500 or so playing members of Brightwood, who are likely to move the club anyway if they can do a deal. It is similar to denying a development because the neighbors in another building will lose their view. Simply absurd.

[Spitfire75]

Waterfront proposal would be ‘huge’ boost (http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1062408.html)

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Tue. Jun 17 - 5:39 AM

The former Dartmouth marine slips could become "Bishop’s Landing on steroids" if its proposed redevelopment is approved, says a regional councillor.

Coun. Andrew Younger (East Dartmouth-The Lakes) said he compares King’s Wharf 30-acre project to Southwest Properties’ awarding-winning development on the Halifax side of the harbour because of its size and design.

"It has the trail on the water side, and then the development, and it’s huge," he said Monday.

The proposal, from developer Fares Real Estate, includes 12 new buildings like a cruise ship docking facility, condominiums, townhouses, a 200-room hotel, 160,000 square feet of office space and 70,000 square feet of ground-level retail space.

Since it was proposed at a public information meeting back in 2006, the developer has had to overcome obstacles like providing two access roads into the development and dealing with view plane issues from Brightwood Golf Club and the Dartmouth Common.

"Some of the delay is because of those kinds of issues," Mr. Younger said.
Before the development can proceed, regional council must approve the zoning change from marine-industrial and then schedule a public hearing during the summer.

The executive director of the Downtown Dartmouth Business Commission is hopeful it will be given the go-ahead.

"It’s probably the most important project that we’ve seen here in 50 years," Tim Olive said Monday.

The $300-million project would include 1,292 residential units, which would bring about 2,500 people into the area, he said.

"It will probably be the best living accommodations on the harbour, bar none, . . . and just having all those people in our downtown, which is slowly coming back and being revitalized, will be a boost to the businesses."

"(Its effect) is almost incalculable because there will be so many people living within two blocks of a shopping district is something that business communities can only dream about."

Other benefits to the area are important, too, said Coun. Gloria McCluskey (Dartmouth Centre).

That’s because the area used to be home to the former Irving shipyard property, she said Monday.

"I know a lot of people are anxious to see that place developed and get rid of those ugly old shipyard buildings."

"It certainly would be something for downtown Dartmouth, let me tell you," she said.
( apugsley@herald.ca)I really hope this one gets the go ahead. Dartmouth needs it!

[Dmajackson]

What is up with this viewplane from Brightwood? This viewplane should not exist because:

1) That is a private golf-course that you have to pay a private company to gain access to see this view, Viewplanes should be left to public areas accessible with no cost,

2) Brightwood is not a protected heritage site known for its historic veiws,

3) Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't/wasn't Brightwood closing down? I thought they were planning to move out to the suburbs?

[Spitfire75]

Yeah I don't understand that either. I'm against viewplanes anywhere in the city. I have yet to see a situation where they make sense.

[hfx_chris]

The one and only view plane I agree with, is the view of Georges Island from the Citadel. That's the only one. I was on Georges Island this weekend past, and I honestly have to admit while standing there looking at the Citadel, I felt something unusual. A kind of connection. Those two forts have a connection, a visual and historical connection that should be preserved.
Christ, I sound like a heritage nut...but unlike the heritage nuts, while gazing upon the Citadel I enjoyed the contrast between history (the Citadel) and the modern tall buildings. It was nice to see!

[terrynorthend]

Is there an actual legislated viewplane from Brightwood or the Dartmouth Common?

I was under the impression that in this case it was just the opponents' choice of words; their contention that its too high and will block various views from Dartmouth. "Viewplane" is a loaded word in the politics of HRM, so it makes sense that they would use that term to muddy the issue, attempting to confuse the public into believing that there is hard legislation that would contraindicate this proposal.

[HaliStreaks]

Is there an actual legislated viewplane from Brightwood or the Dartmouth Common?

I think it is the opponents choice of words, I don't think there is any actual "viewplane" to speak of, however just the view.

As far as I know I don't think Dartmouth has any real "viewplanes" so I don't see why the issue should really be brought up with this project. I really want to see this happen, it will really help Dartmouth, I guess in plain terms, it'll help Dartmouth suck a lot less :sly: :haha:

Here's to hoping it goes :tup: :cheers:

(Hell, if McCluskey likes the idea, that means its good for everyone :haha:)

[Jonovision]

This would be the best thing to ever happen in Dartmouth. For once the most sought after homes would be on this side of the harbour. I thought there was actual viewplane legislation for Brightwood. Even though it makes little sense. I'm almost positive these plans do not interfere either. Fares has been really good about it all too. I'm sure I mentioned this before, but there was a concerned resident on the hill just down from Brightwood. He wanted to know how his view would be affected so Fares came in and took some pictures from his window, then did up a rendering showing the new perspective the resident would have. That is not something most developers would do.

[Canopus]

Forget 50 this would be the best thing to happen to Dartmouth in at least 100 years and be a fantastic thing for the city as a whole.

And people are seriously considering making the view from the tee of a private golf course an issue here?!?!?

Gad, why is it that so often the far left position seems to be a thorn in the side of development proposals yet now, when faced with what one would think would be considered blocking a good project to placate a few local golfers, they are not up in arms?

[worldlyhaligonian]

It might be the greatest thing to happen to Dartmouth ever... lol.

But seriously, this whole "viewplane" talk is rediculous, I think a product of the media and those who do not want ANY development. Is this some kind of fallacy of the development's opponents?

Citadel Hill is one thing, and I respect that, but thwarting developing based on b/s will ultimately just make Halifax more uncompetitive.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I find a great irony in this whole leftist group... the poverty that exists in the Maritimes is generally due to structural causes, namely the decline of specific industries. Many of the people thwarting development are anti-poverty.

Thus, a paradox... the economy and people's general financial welfare will not miracuously change without development. And then we have those in office who are completely clueless, who want to change developer's plans at their uneducated personal whims. Its a fucking joke.

Peter Kelly, where is your eMBA at?

I think Fougere could do a good job though, she's a family friend. I would like to inform her of this forum, so she could get a glimpse of those who are proud of Halifax and want to be even more proud.

What does everybody think of this idea?

I think this forum has produced excellent discussion that seeks the truth in our urban planning community. We need to dispell alot of these myths out there (i.e. 4 stories max, etc)

[Spitfire75]

I think Fougere could do a good job though, she's a family friend. I would like to inform her of this forum, so she could get a glimpse of those who are proud of Halifax and want to be even more proud.

What does everybody think of this idea?

I think this forum has produced excellent discussion that seeks the truth in our urban planning community. We need to dispell alot of these myths out there (i.e. 4 stories max, etc)

Yes, most definitely. I wish this forum was our urban planning committee. ;)

[Canopus]

I find a great irony in this whole leftist group...

Many of the people thwarting development are anti-poverty.

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with wanting to help eliminate or at least lessen poverty and in fact it should be a goal of every government and civic minded person because it's good for everyone.

What I don't understand is why the lefties in the city want to stick roadblocks on every project they can when they would definitely bring immediate work and contribute to the economy overall. It doesn't even seem to be about design really or truly making a good, functioning community.

Truthfully, if you ask me, the lefties in Halifax are like every other group. They simply like being listened to and want to maintain and expand their political influence for the sake of themselves. Nothing like working to justify your own existence about everything else

Yeah, why not tell Shelia about this place. It's not exactly hopping all of the time but it might be worth a nod.

[phrenic]

Are we talking about HCAP? Because if we are, please don't assume that every left-of-centre person in HRM is on their side. We're not. HCAP are a bunch of idealistic buffoons who don't know the first thing about how to appropriately address poverty issues.

[Canopus]

Are we talking about HCAP? Because if we are, please don't assume that every left-of-centre person in HRM is on their side. We're not. HCAP are a bunch of idealistic buffoons who don't know the first thing about how to appropriately address poverty issues.

Well, to be fair I don't think left - right labels are very accurate anyway but no I wasn't directly talking about those nuts. Just as a whole I have found that the left, for lack of a better term, in Halifax has become not really even about left principles but about a handful of socially stagnated ideals such as anti-development and basically a podium to rant against "the rich old boys" whoever they are exactly without providing anything as a real alternative.

Maybe I've been reading the Coast too much instead of wrapping fish in it as would seem to have been more appropriate over the last few years :D

[phrenic]

Just as a whole I have found that the left, for lack of a better term, in Halifax has become not really even about left principles but about a handful of socially stagnated ideals such as anti-development and basically a podium to rant against "the rich old boys" whoever they are exactly without providing anything as a real alternative.

There are certain groups that would fall under this criticism, although much of the same can be said just as easily about groups on the other side of the political spectrum. Activist groups on both sides tend to suffer from over-simplified and impractical idealism which serves only to undermine their causes in the eyes of the public. Often debates are then framed as if they are black and white like Anti-Development versus Any-Development, Anti-gentrification versus doesn't-give-a-shit-about-the-neighborhood-let's-just-build-these-condominiums, etc. Your attempt to paint all local left wingers all with the same brush showcases this problem.

Anyway, I apologize for the rant, I just can't stand it when people make broad generalizations like this. I won't jack the thread anymore.

//////////

So anyway, I don't see any logical reason, golf course view planes or otherwise, why this development on the whole, would be opposed. I'm sure the condo tower may get some people's knickers in a knot, but overall it is a fantastic project that will likely be the best thing to ever happen to this part of Dartmouth.

[Canopus]

Your attempt to paint all local left wingers all with the same brush showcases this problem.

Re-read my posts then and you'll see that I both mentioned various groups (not only lefties) as well as the fact that I find the labels themselves unsatisfactory.

I'm not painting anyone with a single brush anymore than they have painted themselves no matter how diseparate the beliefs of the various scuffy crowds that inhabit the core. If people self identify as such then I've got the right to identify them as a whole as well.

Personally, like I said, I don't think most of the vocal few are really "left" so to speak or are often even bright enough to know what that really means but one way or another if you call yourself something then others can too.

[Dmajackson]

Public Hearing:

July 8, 2008

Halifax City Hall - 6pm

Case 00798

Dartmuth Marine Slips Redevelopment

[Jonovision]

!!!!!!!!!! I'm THERE! And one day before my birthday! What a present that would be!!!!!
:cheers: :banana: :banana:

[someone123]

Reports up here: http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case00798Details.html

[Keith P.]

Those reports and hearing minutes make for fascinating if not depressing reading. How foolhardy was it for Dartmouth council 30 years ago to set height limits and viewplanes for downtown development? There has been virtually no development since that time. One wonders why council would have been concerned with putting in place things that inhibit the already weak development climate for the area.

The comments at the various hearings were surprisingly supportive, but the usual voices (Ruffman and Pacey) naturally showed up to decry the proposal. Pacey went on about preserving the views from various old 2-storey buildings in the area. Good lord. Some of the other comments are simply hilarious. Someone asked whether the design had taken into account climate change effects so that if a "large ship" broke free of its moorings and crashed into the site, would the buildings fall down... criminy.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Someone asked whether the design had taken into account climate change effects so that if a "large ship" broke free of its moorings and crashed into the site, would the buildings fall down... criminy.

You don't know how hard I just laughed. This is a prime example of the rediculous rhetoric of the anti-development community. We should maybe have a thread to archive a "Hall of Stupidity" or something. It would be great to pull out pages upon pages of this kind of material at a public hearing. It really shows that the opponents of development are grasping at straws, while seemingly oblivious to the declining heritage properties around the city.

Pathetic.

[Smevo]

The Heritage Trust drives me nuts.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2008/06/23/development-harbour.html
Dartmouth development threatens Harbour view: heritage advocates
Last Updated: Monday, June 23, 2008 | 1:49 PM AT
CBC News

The Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia is worried that a development planned for the former Dartmouth Marine Slips could jeopardize views of Halifax Harbour.

W.M. Fares & Associates, developer of the multi-million dollar residential, commercial and institutional project, has asked for changes to the height restrictions along Dartmouth's waterfront for three of the 10 proposed buildings.

Heritage advocates have written to the Harbour East Community Council outlining their objections to a move that would contravene Dartmouth's view plane rules. Height restrictions are in place to protect views of the harbour from the Dartmouth Commons and the Brightwood Golf Club.

Philip Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust, is worried about the move to amend the rules.

"They've been in place for a number of years and they're working well. That's another example where a consensus was reached and now one developer is asking to change the municipal planning strategy strictly for their benefit," Pacey said.

The development — called the Anchorage at Dartmouth Cove — proposes a mix of townhouses and highrise units, a 200-room hotel, office and retail space as well as a private marina and cruise ship docking facility.

If it goes ahead, it would cover 12 hectares and include 10 buildings — some of them built on in-filled water lots. The company announced the $150-million project in 2005. An HRM staff report said while three buildings would exceed the maximum height restrictions, they would not affect the view planes.

A public hearing on the proposed changes will be held July 8.

Protecting view planes of the harbour from Halifax Citadel Hill have been raised repeatedly during development disputes on the Halifax side of the harbour.

[Dmajackson]

Why doesn't the HT just stay on the Halifax side of the water and let one area of HRM grow without opposition? And whoever wrote this article needs to do some research its not the Anchorage....anyways i don't think the HT stand a chance on this one they already have their boots filled.

[hfx_chris]

A couple of those comments on that article just irritate me like you wouldn't believe. Blocking the view of downtown Halifax! That woman said this would block the view of downtown Halifax from the Common!
As I said in the comments, she needs to get out a map and figure out that this actually wouldn't be blocking any of the harbour from any point on the Commons...

[Keith P.]

The Heritage Trust drives me nuts.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2008/06/23/development-harbour.html

Philip Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust, is worried about the move to amend the rules.

"They've been in place for a number of years and they're working well. That's another example where a consensus was reached and now one developer is asking to change the municipal planning strategy strictly for their benefit," Pacey said.



Well, considering that nothing has been built in downtown Dartmouth in 25 years, that is one way to look at it. But the sensible way to look at it is that laws that protect a view of a derelict shipyard from a private golf course are (a) probably not very good laws and (b) probably have a lot to do with why there has been zero development in the area.

Pacey and the HT are on the run these days and are losing in situations where a couple of years earlier they would have totally stonewalled things. Long overdue, but watch out for them to try even more desperate tactics now that they are on a losing streak and the tide of public opinion has turned agaisnt them.

[Dmajackson]

A couple of those comments on that article just irritate me like you wouldn't believe. Blocking the view of downtown Halifax! That woman said this would block the view of downtown Halifax from the Common!
As I said in the comments, she needs to get out a map and figure out that this actually wouldn't be blocking any of the harbour from any point on the Commons...

I had a look on a map an oddly enough the only view this would block from the Commons is the view of the Woodside Oil Refinery...strange...isn't this the same view HT was attempting to save from some development in Halifax?

[hfx_chris]

Yup. If you draw a straight line between the Citadel and the oil refinery, it goes right through the empty hole in the ground where the United Gulf towers are proposed. Twice now they're fought for our rights to be able to gaze upon the shimmering flame of fuel burning off at the refinery. Those noble souls.

[Smevo]

Well, really, what's more attractive than a refinery? :koko:

[JONOJOE]

http://www.faresinc.com/

http://www.faresinc.com/images/New%20Renderings/New%20Renderings/presentation.jpg

http://www.faresinc.com/images/New%20Renderings/New%20Renderings/26.jpg

An older rendering. I am not sure if it is still valid
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/447565437_06e91bac25_o.jpg

This is one project I am looking forward too. Downtown Dartmouth and its skyline will change drastically...for the better. :)

I know francis quite well, he's actually somewhat related to me.. he's asked for my help with the public hearing.. I'm going to be there to speak a few words in support for the project, and i think anybody who feels they'd liek to have kings warf a reality should do the same.. july 8th city hall..

ps. drop by and say hi if you're there, it would be nice to put some faces to names..

[Jonovision]

I'll be there talking. I'm gonna use heritages tactics of using Elmo to try and help my case for this development.

[Spitfire75]

The hearing is tonight. I can't make it, but I hope all goes well.

[HaliStreaks]

They've just started with the presentation for this, wasn't able to make it over, watching on TV now.

[HaliStreaks]

Jeez, just watching this, so far it seems they haven't left ANYTHING out. I really hope this gets positive support.

[Keith P.]

Gawd, I LOVE it when Patrick Leroy speaks. He just took on the Heritage Trust's late entry into this, and absolutely eviserated them. :cheers:

No negative comments in the first few speakers. :banana:

[HaliStreaks]

Gawd, I LOVE it when Patrick Leroy speaks.

I have to agree, that was gold.:D .. this is looking good so far :cheers:

[Keith P.]

Uh-oh... a couple of whiteheaded opponents espousing some Flat Earth Society views... don't change anything seems to be their mantra. Sad.

[HaliStreaks]

wow, the 2 naysayers so far live in the same building...

I don't get this whole thing about the harbour cleanup they are bringing up? Infill doesn't make it dirty, god these people are stupid lol.

[HaliStreaks]

The second older lady to speak this evening (saying we should light up dartmouth) is a regular customer that comes to the russell lake sobeys and has nothing but good and positive thoughts to tell us about how she thinks dartmouth should grow more and how she wants change. More of the older generation need to think like her...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand phil pacey is up next..................

[Keith P.]

Is there any development that Alan Ruffman will not speak against?

That guy is so negative, bitter and sour that one wonders how he can function on a daily basis. What a twisted individual.

[HaliStreaks]

Is there any development that Alan Ruffman will not speak against?

That guy is so negative, bitter and sour that one wonders how he can function on a daily basis. What a twisted individual.

I totally agree, and Pacey was there again as usual sounding like a broken f@$king record again. Too tall bla bla bla

I hate ruffman and pacey with a friggin' passion

[sdm]

Seems like the fushion group was out again tonight with its pro development tour.

Pacey and ruffman are nutballs. Someone should do a count to the number of position projects these two have approved. I figure it would be easier to count the for, rather then against.

[hfx_chris]

Holy crap, did I just hear correctly? Brightwood gave it the thumbs up!
So the whole "views from Brightwood" thing shouldn't be an issue the heritage nuts bring up anymore! :D

[Dmajackson]

APPROVED :D 21-0 pretty good, eh?

Congrats Dartmouth you guys deserve a development like this :yes:

[Haliguy]

Congrats Dartmouth! This is a great development. Alan Ruffman is real old crank isn't he.....geeech

[hfx_chris]

Ah, dammit I shouldn't have been following this topic. You just ruined the ending for me :) I'm time shifting because I wasn't home to catch it.

I'm also pleasantly surprised by the number of Hazelhurst residents who are in support.

[Jonovision]

I was there and put my two cents in. It was an amazing evenning! So much positivity in the room. And when I got there it was standing room only in the overflow room, it was crazy. I really liked that second women as well. During one of the breaks she came up to me and said she wanted to give me a hug lol so cute! Non of the naysayers had any real valid points. I still can't believe it was unanimous!!! Has that ever happened?!
What a great couple of weeks it has been for Halifax!

[Keith P.]

Keep in mind that last night's vote was only on the plan amendments, not the development agreement. There is still going to be another round of debate about the infill of the wate rlots , the design and density, and of course, the ever-popular "it's too tall!!!!" debate about the tower.

[JET]

This is a great development. I hope that it moves along quickly. The infill will help contain whatever is sitting near the old shipworks.
One presenter brought up a good question: the shubie canal presently empties into the harbiur. The canal is a nice feature. I wonder how it will meet up with the development. I remember seeing an aerial view at one point, but I can't remember what happens at the end of the canal. JET

[Jonovision]

Council clears way for $300m Dartmouth project

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Wed. Jul 9 - 5:47 AM

Regional council is in the mood for development.

With a 21-0 vote at city hall Tuesday night, councillors approved changes to land-use bylaws and planning strategies that will pave the way for a $300-million development for Dartmouth’s waterfront.

King’s Wharf — a series of buildings that will include a hotel, 30-storey condo building, shops, three public accesses to the waterfront, a marina and underground parking—– wouldn’t be permitted without the changes.

But now developer Francis Fares can proceed to Dartmouth’s community council to test the waters for a development agreement for his project, which will be located on the former Dartmouth Marine Slips land.

Before their vote, councillors heard from more than 50 people during a public hearing.

Not since the so-called Twisted Sisters development proposed for the Tex-Park lot in Halifax two years ago has council seen such an outpouring of public input — so much so that council had to extend its meeting to 11 p.m., an hour past its normal closing.

The overwhelming majority of speakers, who came from all over the municipality, were in favour of the development.

Many Dartmouthians, like Helen Anstey, said they were encouraged to see such investment put into their side of their harbour.

"It’s our turn now," she said. "We don’t have what you (in Halifax) have on your waterfront."

"We’ve always been considered the dark side of the harbour," agreed Marjorie Gibbons of Hazelhurst Street.

"But this would make everyone in Halifax say, ‘Wow! Look how bright it is!’ "

About five people were opposed and almost as many said they liked the idea of the project but didn’t approve of the height of the proposed development.

They included Heritage Trust president Philip Pacey, who said after the meeting that it’s "too early to tell" whether he’ll appeal council’s decision.

Clive Mason told council to reject it because the plan calls for filling in water lots to accommodate a development that he said is too tall and out of scale with its neighbourhood.

"They’re going to pave over the harbour," he said.

In the end, though, councillors — led by area councillor Gloria McCluskey — were all for the project.

Coun. Debbie Hum (Rockingham-Wentworth) said she was influenced by the residents who came to speak from downtown Dartmouth.

"So many of them said they didn’t care (about the view plane) . . . and that they were willing to overcome that, because what was important to them was the revitalization of the downtown and what this would do for Dartmouth.

"I thought that was tremendous."

Initially, Coun. Bob Harvey (Lower Sackville) said he was concerned for the height.

"It has the potential of being a Fenwick-By-The-Sea," he said, referring to Fenwick Place, the Dalhousie University residence in Halifax that is 32 storeys high.

However, he noted that the height of the tower is something that can be further debated when the Dartmouth councillors hold a public hearing on the development agreement for the project in a few months.

( apugsley@herald.ca)

[phrenic]

The infill will help contain whatever is sitting near the old shipworks.


I agree. I'm not crazy about infilling in the harbour under any circumstances, but considering all of the toxic sludge underneath that site that likely can't be cleaned up, this is probably the best option.

[Spitfire75]

That's great news, 100% approval! Amazing.
But honestly, I'll be surprised if the 30 story tower makes it through alive.

[terrynorthend]

I'm encouraged by the unanimous support.. in particular how many speakers and most councilors expressed explicit support for the project, not just the broad concept of plan amendments and some sort of project for these lands. Having said that, there are lots of hurdles ahead, lots of opportunity for appeals, elections happen, and minds can change.

However I think the real enemies of King's Wharf are the economics of it. It will take many years to get this built i am afraid.

[Jonovision]

I would say about 75% of the people in favour of the development were in full support. Even the 360' tower. Many of those residents were from Hazelhurst Street, which is right down overlooking the site. One councillor expressed concern regarding the height of the tower. But he did seem open to the idea as long as the tower was a true icon. The flavour of last night gave me the impression that there will not be such a large fight as some might expect for the tall buildings. I admit however, I am an eternal optimist.

[Wishblade]

I would say about 75% of the people in favour of the development were in full support. Even the 360' tower. Many of those residents were from Hazelhurst Street, which is right down overlooking the site. One councillor expressed concern regarding the height of the tower. But he did seem open to the idea as long as the tower was a true icon. The flavour of last night gave me the impression that there will not be such a large fight as some might expect for the tall buildings. I admit however, I am an eternal optimist.

Yeah, I cant see there being THAT much fuss over this, even the tower. According to the height, its actually going to be taller than Fenwick tower by about 40 feet. Having said that, considering that height, there was surprisingly little opposition towards it at the meeting last night. And 21-0 in the vote. Wow, I mean what can you say? I've never seen that happen before thats for sure.

[phrenic]

According to the height, its actually going to be taller than Fenwick tower by about 40 feet.

Really? So this would be Halifax's new tallest, and the first building in the city over 100m?

That woul be coooooooooool.:cheers:

[Dmajackson]

Yah that would be very cool. I never thought Dartmouth might beat Halifax to 100m...Good luck Dartmouth :cheers:

[sdm]

Yeah, I cant see there being THAT much fuss over this, even the tower. According to the height, its actually going to be taller than Fenwick tower by about 40 feet. Having said that, considering that height, there was surprisingly little opposition towards it at the meeting last night. And 21-0 in the vote. Wow, I mean what can you say? I've never seen that happen before thats for sure.

thats 21-0 to amendments, not the development. I love to see this project built, but until ground is broken and the development is approved i am not getting to excited. Remember its an election year, after elections the votes might change......

[Wishblade]

thats 21-0 to amendments, not the development. I love to see this project built, but until ground is broken and the development is approved i am not getting to excited. Remember its an election year, after elections the votes might change......


Oh I realize that, but what I'm saying is that I didn't hear a lot of complaining about the scale or height of the buildings, especially from the general public. Heck, I'd say it was probably encouraged because it will add the needed density to revitalize downtown Dartmouth.

Aside from the HT and Hendsbee, I think it was basically all in favour.

[terrynorthend]

In particular, the members that compromise the Harbour East Community Council were well in favour of the project itself.

[spaustin]

Hendsbee only supports road building and paving :haha:

[waterloowarrior]

'They're going to pave over the harbour' :haha:

[Dmajackson]

I found it strange how Harvey said he will be waiting for this to become visible in SACKVILLE! which is 100% impossible for 300'. I'll be dammed if i can see it from my house in Bedford...

[hfx_chris]

Hendsbee only supports road building and paving :haha:
As much as I enjoy a good attack on Hendsbee, he did vote in favor of the amendments, so I'm curious to know what prompted this?

[spaustin]

As much as I enjoy a good attack on Hendsbee, he did vote in favor of the amendments, so I'm curious to know what prompted this?

I didn't catch the council meeting, I was going on what wishblade posted just before me. Perhaps he was referring to a different Hendsbee? or did Handsbee speak ill of the project even though he voted in favour?

[JET]

I think that Hendsbee did say that he hoped that existing businesses that are there (Dominion diving, Secunda Marine etc) should not be negatively affected by the development. I had forgotten that they are there. The properties are an eyesore. It is possible to combine industry and developments (the Hfx tugs fit in fine with the boardwalk) but there would have to be some fixin up with the dartmouth marine properties, probably minimum standards could help out. The fishing wharf and boardwalk in Eastern passage are another good example of how the marine and people spaces work well together. A few posts back i was raising the issue of where the shubie canal would meet the development; it would be right where the train bridge goes over the canal, right next to dominion diving and Scunda marine. It would take some will to fix that area. JET

[Wishblade]

I didn't catch the council meeting, I was going on what wishblade posted just before me. Perhaps he was referring to a different Hendsbee? or did Handsbee speak ill of the project even though he voted in favour?

No, not a different Hendsbee. I was referring to the councilor.

The vote was just for the amendments, and he made it clear to ask that the vote was just for the amendments and not for the height and scale of the project. I believe that he is all for the project happening, but I don't think he is content with the height, especially of that 360' tower.

[hfx_chris]

I think that Hendsbee did say that he hoped that existing businesses that are there (Dominion diving, Secunda Marine etc) should not be negatively affected by the development.
Partly, but he also was hoping that the developer was completely aware that Dominion and Secunda are their neighbors, and that any future tenants would be equally aware, because he didn't want to have the developer or tenants launching complaints about their industrial neighbors in the future.

[Jonovision]

I don't know if anyone else caught this, but councilor Younger eluded to a second big project in the pipes for Dartmouth. Anyone have any ideas? The only thing that comes to mind is either the YMCA redevelopment on lake Banook, or the Ekistics project on Wyse Rd.

[spaustin]

I don't know if anyone else caught this, but councilor Younger eluded to a second big project in the pipes for Dartmouth. Anyone have any ideas? The only thing that comes to mind is either the YMCA redevelopment on lake Banook, or the Ekistics project on Wyse Rd.

I know the WDC has been considering what will happen with the rest of the Dartmouth waterfront (Dartmouth cove). Maybe there is more going on there then is publicly known.

[HaliStreaks]

I don't know if anyone else caught this, but councilor Younger eluded to a second big project in the pipes for Dartmouth. Anyone have any ideas? The only thing that comes to mind is either the YMCA redevelopment on lake Banook, or the Ekistics project on Wyse Rd.

I really, REALLY hope it is the Banook project.