[M II A II R II K]

One thing I wondered about is given how old it is in colonial history, why the city and perhaps even the province itself isn't as populated or developed as say a northeastern city such as Boston.

The same could be asked about how it developed in comparison to other Canadian cities which are currently bigger but didn't even exist long before Halifax was founded.

Theories?

[alps]

Geography (proximity to the United States) and policies that focused business towards Central Canada come to mind. So does the Heritage Trust in more recent times ;).

[skyscraper_1]

Part of the reason could be the lack of agricultural land. Thus, Halifax never had much of an rural hinterland to draw new people from. Plus the people who did stay often depended on fishing such never transitioned to a competitive modern industry here.

Secondly, the economic collapse thanks mostly to policies from Ottawa drove many maritimers to Boston, Toronto or out west.

"Rapidly growing out-migration itself became the major cause of Maritime economic grief. At least 100,000 people, including my great grandparents, left the Maritimes in each of the decades between 1881 and 1931, mostly the young, skilled and ambitious. At least three-quarters of these talented Canadians appeared to follow the traditional Maritime route to the United States. Prince Edward Island was the worst affected and it would not regain its 1881 population level until a full century later in 1986. The loss of so many vigorous people from those provinces, which as a whole in 1881 held only 871,000 persons, was clearly the main cause (or some say the major symptom) of the region’s economic and political decline."

http://www.david-kilgour.com/inside/chap02.htm <-------Good read if you want to find the reason for the historical reasons of Maritime underdevelopment.

Another snippet

"Atlantic Canada’s experience in Confederation is a story of hesitation and triumph followed by successive disasters. By the mid-nineteenth century, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island were thriving within a trade network involving themselves, Great Britain and the West Indies. The shipyard industry, at its peak in the 1860s, had built much of the fleet that made the world’s fourth largest shipping power of what soon was to become Canada. The financial network included a dozen banks, -- the Bank of Nova Scotia and antecedents of the Royal Bank of Canada, as well as other important institutions. Halifax -- the centre for

Nova Scotia by mid-century -- Toronto historian J.M.S. Careless called "the wealthiest most advanced metropolitan city in the British North American provinces." Culture flourished in the region. There emerged a strong regional outlook which gave rise to the romantic notion of a golden age of "Wooden Ships and Iron Men.""

[someone123]

A lot of it can be traced back to that 1881-1931 period. Halifax actually grew pretty quickly in subsequent decades. For example, it was the fastest growing city in Canada in the 1940s and was not hurt nearly as badly as some others in the 1930s.

In 1881, Halifax proper had a population of about 40,000 and in 1931 it was only up to 60,000 (+50%). During the same period, Montreal grew from about 140,000 to 820,000 (+480%). If Halifax had grown by the same amount it would have been in the 235,000 range.

From 1931 to the present, Halifax went from 60,000 (city proper) to 380,000 (metro). Montreal went from 820,000 (proper) to about 3.6 million (metro). Halifax grew somewhat faster. Halifax was actually a relatively "smaller" city in early-mid 20th century North American terms than it is today.

The same percentage growth starting from 235,000 would have put the city at almost 1.5 million, although it is a stretch to assume that the percentages would have remained the same.

I think that one would reasonably expect the Maritimes to have a city in the 1-1.5 million range given its rural hinterland, which is what Halifax probably would have ended up being had it continued to develop during that fifty year period along with almost every other city in North America. Alternatively, Saint John could also have done this. It started to stagnate around the 1870s, but prior to that was one of the biggest cities in Canada. At the time of Confederation, 3 of the top 6 cities in Canada were in the Atlantic Region.

As for the situation today, I agree that the city is held back somewhat by red tape and poor management. It should be growing much faster than it is.

[Greco Roman]

Ok, not sure where else to post this question, but what kind of population growth is Halifax experiencing right now? Is there any kind of population "boom" expected in the near future?

[terrynorthend]

Geography (proximity to the United States) and policies that focused business towards Central Canada come to mind. So does the Heritage Trust in more recent times ;).

Check out the NFB documentary, "Empty Harbours, Empty Dreams" for an interesting take on this subject. Its a couple of decades old. I think it was made in response to the 70's Western oil boom and the resultant emmigration.

It should be required watching for any proud Nova Scotian. LOL.

[Haliguy]

Ok, not sure where else to post this question, but what kind of population growth is Halifax experiencing right now? Is there any kind of population "boom" expected in the near future?


Halifax has had fairly solid population growth for quite a few years now. The 2006 census shown 3.6 % growth I believe and 4.3 or so in the 2001 census. I think Halifax will continue to grow nicely but by how much really depends on many factors. Things such offshore oil and gas and the Atlantic gateway could accelerate growth but if they don't live up to their potential it may not. Other factors such as the Finacial Service Sector which IS growing a lot in Halifax right now could increase growth as well..who knows.

[M II A II R II K]

http://www.david-kilgour.com/inside/chap02.htm <-------Good read

Well that certainly covered more than what I was asking about!

[Canadian_Bacon]

I am kind of glad that Halifax did not grow as fast as other cities... Because then it would have the problems that other BIG cities have, with the big population growth.

But it is also a shame at the same time. Alot of first's happened in the maritimes, and alot of big corporations got their start in Halifax. Look at Cunard Lines. Didn't really start in Halifax but it was a big part of its history. Also I forget which big bank it was, I think ScotiaBank or something started in Halifax. Actually I think a couple big bank corporations got their start in Halifax. If I'm not mistaken I also think RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) started in Halifax as the Bank of Halifax or something like that.

So the maritimes and Halifax in perticular does have a big part in Canada's history and the British North American history. So I would like to see it grow.

[skyscraper_1]

Well that certainly covered more than what I was asking about!
hehe, it covers almost everything but it is all somewhat related to the slow growth of the Maritime provinces and cities. I should have put a warning "good read * if you have the time*" :)

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Halifax has had fairly solid population growth for quite a few years now. The 2006 census shown 3.6 % growth I believe and 4.3 or so in the 2001 census. I think Halifax will continue to grow nicely but by how much really depends on many factors. Things such offshore oil and gas and the Atlantic gateway could accelerate growth but if they don't live up to their potential it may not. Other factors such as the Finacial Service Sector which IS growing a lot in Halifax right now could increase growth as well..who knows.

I know I'm always labelled as a pessimist when I post this but I think Halifax will be hard-pressed to maintain any significant population growth in the near future. The outmigration this province is facing hasn't been balanced by enough international or interprovincial immigrants. Traditionally Halifax has drawn on it's Maritime hinterland but people are moving out west now which doesn't bode well for future growth in the city. Until we can compete with western wages people will continue to move west.

[someone123]

Here's the interprovincial migration data for Halifax: http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/shared/redirectproduct.cfm?ips=97-556-XWE2006012

I agree that population growth is unlikely to be very high but then again these trends are constantly evolving. Economic conditions in Halifax seem to be improving. I would guess that the "peak" in income compared to cost of living in Calgary/Edmonton vs Halifax was a couple of years ago. Similarly, immigration has gone up considerably. I wouldn't be surprised if 2001-2006 turned out to be a slow growth period like 1991-1996 (growth was actually slower then I think) rather than the beginning of a permanent trend.

I think Halifax has two major problems that can actually be dealt with (having hundreds of billions of dollars of natural resources nearby and ready to be developed is another a bit different). The first is that it just isn't on the radar for many people who could move there. Partly this is due to fewer opportunities but it's also due to self-perpetuating popular views. Alberta is the hot place to move to right now. Even if the job growth ground to a halt tomorrow people would keep moving there. Similarly, if Halifax started to have Calgary-like job opportunities it would take people a long time to revise their mental image of the city, which right now is basically Regina-by-the-sea.

As for the city's international reputation, well, it doesn't exist, and I'm not aware of efforts to change that. Immigrants can't move to Halifax if they don't know it exists.

The second problem is that Halifax tends to shoot itself in the foot a lot. If it is to become successful it will have to become a very welcoming and business-friendly city. Right now it's not. Bitter curmudgeons dominate public discourse and the city's municipal government moves at a glacial pace, implementing totally uncreative policies.

[Wishblade]

I know I'm always labelled as a pessimist when I post this but I think Halifax will be hard-pressed to maintain any significant population growth in the near future. The outmigration this province is facing hasn't been balanced by enough international or interprovincial immigrants. Traditionally Halifax has drawn on it's Maritime hinterland but people are moving out west now which doesn't bode well for future growth in the city. Until we can compete with western wages people will continue to move west.

Actually a saw a study somewhere not long ago that showed most of Halifax's population growth was from inter-provincial migration followed by hinterland migration. If I can find it, I'll post it.

[kwajo]

One thing I wondered about is given how old it is in colonial history, why the city and perhaps even the province itself isn't as populated or developed as say a northeastern city such as Boston.

I don't really see Boston and Halifax as very comparable, mainly because Halifax is so much younger of a city than Boston is. I mean by the time Halifax was settled, Boston was only a few years from revolting against Britain. If anything you should look at the city as a major historical success compared to the settlement that Halifax was founded to counteract.

So look at it this way: which town is doing better right now, Halifax or Louisbourg? ;)

[M II A II R II K]

So I suppose Halifax could still yet have over a million people eventually with LRTs and skyscrapers one day.

[Empire]

So I suppose Halifax could still yet have over a million people eventually with LRTs and skyscrapers one day.

Halifax has had a number of setbacks form a development perspective. The Halifax explosion that flattened half the city turned back the clock by approx. 50 years. In general, development has been restrained by viewplanes and heritage concerns. In addition, the terrain does not lend itself to massive development. Toronto being flat as pancake has grown exponentially without many restrictions. Halifax will grow at a measured pace blending history with a modern, vibrant, urban landscape.

[someone123]

I disagree that the Halifax Explosion caused that much trouble. The reality is that many very successful cities had major fires or disasters that required a huge amount of rebuilding and in most cases it didn't end up being a big setback.

I guess the loss of life and injuries related to the Explosion were much worse than with fires, but the city had been essentially stagnant for years before that.

I also disagree that the local setting has been a serious impediment to development - many, many cities have more difficult natural settings than Halifax does. In North America, San Francisco is a good example of this. Even in the case of Boston and New York the natural settings we see today are the result of much more human effort than was ever put into developing Halifax.

[Empire]

Generally the economy in the region is not as advanced as other centers that have seen tremendous growth. New York, Boston, San Fan and Toronto all draw on a catchment area of additional millions of people. For the most part the market for goods and services produced in Halifax is aimed at the Halifax market. When you combine topography, development restrictions, geography and the lackluster regional economy with limited population you end up with Halifax continuously struggling. Some of that is changing with a more globalized economy and an infusion of oil & gas $$. Exporting is holding its own and the airport has had a positive impact.

[DigitalNinja]

If the great lakes and the Saint Laurence Seaway were not there, halifax would probably be the biggest city in Canada in my opinion. Mind you Canada wouldn't have a lot of the population it does right now to...

[worldlyhaligonian]

http://beacon.chebucto.ca/Photo_Album/Webcam_Dec_2004/fenwick3.shtml

this set of images really shows where halifax has gone in the past 5 years... except for surface lots around SGR it looks like a decent improvement in the west part of downtown... its interesting to see how Gladstone and Armoury Square have really added density to the west end.

Trillium is really going to help out the area and I'm excited the next wave of development on the peninsula.

[Dmajackson]

^Nice find WH. :)

The Atrium will be slightly noticable in the second one,

The LSRC and 5800 will help out big time in the third picture,

The Trillium and City Centre Atlantic (if built) in the fourth one,

Salter Street, The Vic, Emera and a bunch of the proposed towers in the fifth one,

and the Farmer's Market in the eigth one.

:)

[Waye Mason]

Halifax not developing faster has a lot more to do with national industrial policy, especially in the 1930s-1950s period, than it does viewplanes and such.

You need to read more Nova Scotia history. The reason Nova Scotia voted against confederation in 1868 was because, and I quote from the Journal of the Nova Scotia Legislature:

"the scheme [confederation with Canada] by them assented to would, if adopted, deprive the people [of Nova Scotia] of the inestimable privilege of self-government, and of their rights, liberty, and independence, rob them of their revenue, take from them the regulation of trade and taxation, expose them to arbitrary taxation by a legislature over which they have no control, and in which they would possess but a nominal and entirely ineffective representation; deprive them of their invaluable fisheries, railroads, and other property, and reduce this hitherto free, happy, and self-governed province to a degraded condition of a servile dependency of Canada." Excerpted from the Address to the Crown by the Government, from the Journal of the House of Assembly, Province of Nova Scotia, 1868


Ottawa focused on Montreal to Niagra for development. But now is now, we need to focus on the future.

Plenty of cities built on rock, with historic and heritage districts, by the ocean. I don't think skyscrapers are all we need to grow the place, but I think it is reasonable to plan to hit 500-600,000 in 50 years. We just need to make sure we are allowed to access international markets.

[someone123]

Generally the economy in the region is not as advanced as other centers that have seen tremendous growth. New York, Boston, San Fan and Toronto all draw on a catchment area of additional millions of people. For the most part the market for goods and services produced in Halifax is aimed at the Halifax market. When you combine topography, development restrictions, geography and the lackluster regional economy with limited population you end up with Halifax continuously struggling. Some of that is changing with a more globalized economy and an infusion of oil & gas $$. Exporting is holding its own and the airport has had a positive impact.

I am not sure I agree that the hinterland areas of the Maritimes are much smaller or worse-off than those of other regions like Quebec, BC, or any number of US states or small regions with larger cities than Halifax.

Problems began really early with the Deportation and the subdivision of NS into NB and PEI. If something similar had been done to a city like Toronto I doubt it would have gotten off of the ground either.

Confederation was another nail in the coffin. Even with the artificial division of the region, both Halifax and Saint John were pretty important as late as the 1860s, and combined they would have been the second-largest city after Montreal.

[someone123]

Oh yeah, and in terms of infill in the core Halifax has done very well during the past decade. There are no dramatic new office towers downtown but there are dozens of little projects that make a big difference in a small city.

It's also interesting how development is spilling into formerly pretty run down secondary areas like Agricola. I think Halifax is going to start to feel a lot bigger over the next few years. It's already noticeably nicer and busier feeling than in the 90s.

[Empire]

The Commonwealth Games Bid is the type of event that Halifax needs. To cop out just sends the message that no we can't do it or no we don't deserve it.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Plenty of cities built on rock, with historic and heritage districts, by the ocean. I don't think skyscrapers are all we need to grow the place, but I think it is reasonable to plan to hit 500-600,000 in 50 years. We just need to make sure we are allowed to access international markets.

Hmm... the issue is not so much are we allowed, its an issue of CAN we really be a player. The current leadership doesn't understand alot of the fundemental flaws with Halifax (they are included btw) and I'm excited by the fact that we are seeing decent growth and that inevitably Halifax fare well. I think we are going to need that population increase to make ourselves more viable in terms of international trade (in all its forms, even a damn Ikea).

[Waye Mason]

The Commonwealth Games Bid is the type of event that Halifax needs. To cop out just sends the message that no we can't do it or no we don't deserve it.

You think we could have afforded 1.9 billion?

[Empire]

You think we could have afforded 1.9 billion?

The number wasn't etched in stone. Kelly bailed in typical fashion. There was 800 million in free money available for starters and only HRM would turn their nose up at that. There is a desperate need for sport infrastructure in the city and province and most of the jobs etc. would be retained locally. Now we have to pay 100% for infrastructure and at rising prices and never have a stadium. This province needs 2 billion in sport infrastructure and now we can foot the entire bill. The 2 billion in economic spinoffs for hosting the games seems to go unnoticed for some reason.

[Keith P.]

The number wasn't etched in stone. Kelly bailed in typical fashion. There was 800 million in free money available for starters

Free money is an interesting concept but one that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The feds are the only level of govt with what seems an inexhaustible supply of cash to burn on boondoggles and worthless initiatives, and they only committed to $400 million. The province is broke and cannot afford to match that, and HRM would be on the hook for the remainder -- likely well over $1 frigging billion dollars. No way, no how.

[worldlyhaligonian]

One point I enjoy the most is that, in 40-50 years, people are going to look back and scratch their heads... there WILL be tall buildings in Halifax long term because its unavoidable due to energy and environmental issues.

[Barrington south]

Halifax has had a number of setbacks form a development perspective. The Halifax explosion that flattened half the city turned back the clock by approx. 50 years. In general, development has been restrained by viewplanes and heritage concerns. In addition, the terrain does not lend itself to massive development. Toronto being flat as pancake has grown exponentially without many restrictions. Halifax will grow at a measured pace blending history with a modern, vibrant, urban landscape.

Toronto is not "as flat as a pancake"....try driving up yonge st. from lake shore to the 401....you will notice several elevations...try "summer HILL"..."MT pleasant" an incline at yonge+ ST. Clarie and Yonge + Davisville..also yonge and eglinton....(the wind really whips up yonge in the winter...Brrrr) also at yonge and Lawrence there is a very large decline and then incline....same can be said about yonge+wilson...now that was just an example of yonge st.....there is also a massive "ravine" system that extends through much of the old city of Toronto, and MAJOR valley systems such as the Dawn Valley or the Humber Valley...try riding your tricycle up the bayview...(BAY-VIEW....wouln't be much of a view if it was flat!!) extension and then 15 minutes after reaching the top....after you have caught your breath...tell me again that Toronto is flat as a pancake....perhaps you could visit on of my favorite places to enjoy a nice relaxing cigarette...at the top of the staircase, leading to Casa Loma, from the norther end of Spadina...and enjoy that view of the city.. dude!!...now only an idiot would claim T.O. is as hilly as Beverly Hills or San Fransisco....which I am not doing....however, you have proved once again, empire, that you have no clue what you are talking about and that there is a bigger hole in your head than in between Pamela Anderson's Legs...


after reviewing my the previous statement, I have come to regret my uncool personal attack on you, empire, at the end of my post....I offer you my most sincere and humble apology...

[Empire]

It would be nice to see more bicycle lanes in downtown. Hopefully HRM by design will be ammended to promote more dedicated lanes.

Toronto Ideal for biking
http://blog.bicycletutor.com/toronto-loves-bicycles/

[Barrington south]

Ys, Empire....it seems this Alex Ramon knows as little of Toronto as you do...perhaps it is unwise to put much weight into the words of a fellow that has spent one weekend, in the largest city in Canada, and then proceeds to make broad generalizations

[Barrington south]

One point I enjoy the most is that, in 40-50 years, people are going to look back and scratch their heads... there WILL be tall buildings in Halifax long term because its unavoidable due to energy and environmental issues.

very true...and this point reminds me of an article in the coast about six months ago, in the sustainable city piece, written by that regrettable young fellow who's name i forget, ...anyways, in it he spent the entire article lam blasting tall building's and density as environmentally unfriendly, due to the pea Brain argument that because they have smaller roof space to the number of people living in them ratio...as opposed to house's, they will have less solar power potential too heat the building's....now I'm no environmentalist....but saying tall development are worse than the environment that sprawl this is wrong on SO MANY levels....and so frustrating, I am not even going to bother to discredit this propaganda....he's almost as irritating as Tim Bousque

[something_witty]

:tup: Toronto is not "as flat as a pancake"....try driving up yonge st. from lake shore to the 401....you will notice several elevations...try "summer HILL"..."MT pleasant" an incline at yonge+ ST. Clarie and Yonge + Davisville..also yonge and eglinton....(the wind really whips up yonge in the winter...Brrrr) also at yonge and Lawrence there is a very large decline and then incline....same can be said about yonge+wilson...now that was just an example of yonge st.....there is also a massive "ravine" system that extends through much of the old city of Toronto, and MAJOR valley systems such as the Dawn Valley or the Humber Valley...try riding your tricycle up the bayview...(BAY-VIEW....wouln't be much of a view if it was flat!!) extension and then 15 minutes after reaching the top....after you have caught your breath...tell me again that Toronto is flat as a pancake....perhaps you could visit on of my favorite places to enjoy a nice relaxing cigarette...at the top of the staircase, leading to Casa Loma, from the norther end of Spadina...and enjoy that view of the city.. dude!!...now only an idiot would claim T.O. is as hilly as Beverly Hills or San Fransisco....which I am not doing....however, you have proved once again, empire, that you have no clue what you are talking about and that there is a bigger hole in your head than in between Pamela Anderson's Legs...


after reviewing my the previous statement, I have come to regret my uncool personal attack on you, empire, at the end of my post....I offer you my most sincere and humble apology...

Okay, lets be realistic here. Summerhill? Honestly? It's an incline. Mt Pleasant? About as montainous as Morris Street.

I think what he was trying to explain was that Toronto IS flat as a pancake...below Bloor Street, which, incidentally is where the majority of the business high-rises are located in Toronto.

[Barrington south]

The fact is Toronto is NOT flat as a pancake, and the part that is relatively flat...there is an incline at collage part..... and Jarvis has a general incline all the way to bloor...there is also a change in elevation inbeteen lake shore and front st...so the statement claiming Toronto is as flat as a pan cake... even the mostly flat part, is by definition incorrect...... and is as accurate as you claiming to be witty... the fact is that Toronto grew beyond the limitations of your below bloor argument by the 1800's and let's face in...the vast majority of all torontonians live north of bloor, and in size it is much larger ...so empire's ilconceived notion that Halifax's somewhat stunted growth was due to it's terrain...what is he just blindly making up this up?...is completely unrealistic especially when cities that are significantly bigger than Toronto....San Fransisco, and relatively old, are blessed with terrain 10 times as difficult as Hali....why am I rattling on about relatively small points and getting all worked up about over this?....well empire often writes cheque's he can't cash, and I enjoy calling him on them, because I believe in the TRUTH and fact's of reality...and it also annoys me that he implies Halifax growth was restricted by forces of nature and not politics and competitiveness....and by the way, I know many people who like Halifax the size it is, and are thankful it is not like Toronto, or any other large city

[Nilan8888]

Let's try to gain a little perspective here... I'm going to flash my "Toronto resident for the past 8-9 months" card...

First of all, TO is NOT 'flat as a pancake'.

Secondly, TO is NOT as hilly as Halifax.

Thirdly, Halifax's topography is NOT why it hasn't developed. To say that the forces of natural granite were insurmountable to modern construction technology until about 1992 is just silly.

Frankly, if you want a realy hilly city, I suggest you travel to Fredericton. That place's south side has the longest, most frusterating, most draining $%#@@^* hill that I have ever seen. Neither Halifax nor Toronto can compare to THAT.

Toronto's had the benefit of relatively simple topography on the macro level: there's the water, there's the land, go. It's had to navigate around the ravines, but it's had the benefit of miles and miles of farmland that was long ago divvied up into a neat land tidy grid system that Halifax's Fairview community can only envy.

But necessity is the mother of invention, and you can argue that this simple topography has worked against it. Regardless, the fact that Toronto is overall flatter than Halifax really means just that: it's flatter. The real factors of why one place is bigger than the other lie elsewhere.

[Empire]

....why am I rattling on about relatively small points and getting all worked up about over this?....well empire often writes cheque's he can't cash, and I enjoy calling him on them, because I believe in the TRUTH and fact's of reality...and it also annoys me that he implies Halifax growth was restricted by forces of nature and not politics and competitiveness....and by the way, I know many people who like Halifax the size it is, and are thankful it is not like Toronto, or any other large city

BS if you look back over your rants they are loaded with blank cheques. Your rants are childish and the fact that you think your opinion is the only correct asseessment is the root of the problem. Your handle of BS fits like a glove.....did you choose it?

Numerous lakes (topography) in the HRM region also make development a bit more challenging.

[Barrington south]

yes, empire it's the lakes fault!!....lol....once again I am left stunned by your words of wisdom....no human is ever right all the time empire, and as you have proved, some humans are rarely correct...By no means do I claim to be the most knowledgeable or smartest person on this forum, however....I do tend to try and educate myself (with varying degrees of success) as much as possible on subjects that interest me... however... you on the other hand, randomly blurt out any and all thoughts that pass through your mind and then announce them to the world as if they are divine knowledge,that is irrefutable. And quite frankly, it seems to me that you must be munching on a box of cracker jacks when you do your brainstorming for "ideas" so please just admit that elevation had nothing to do with Halifax's slow growth, so we can end this pitiful argument

[Empire]

yes, empire it's the lakes fault!!....lol....once again I am left stunned by your words of wisdom....no human is ever right all the time empire, and as you have proved, some humans are rarely correct...By no means do I claim to be the most knowledgeable or smartest person on this forum, however....I do tend to try and educate myself (with varying degrees of success) as much as possible on subjects that interest me... however... you on the other hand, randomly blurt out any and all thoughts that pass through your mind and then announce them to the world as if they are divine knowledge,that is irrefutable. And quite frankly, it seems to me that you must be munching on a box of cracker jacks when you do your brainstorming for "ideas" so please just admit that elevation had nothing to do with Halifax's slow growth, so we can end this pitiful argument

BS, you can whine all you want but I won't change my opinion to allow you to end your silly tirade. In my opinion, topography is an inhibiting factor in the overall progression of growth in HRM and that may not be a bad thing. If you look at a google satellite shot of approx. 10km over HRM and compare it to 10km over downtown Toronto will will see a vast difference. With so many watercourses, lakes etc. grid like corridors would be hard to develop in HRM. Streets like King, Queen, Dundas and Bloor would be very difficult in HRM. Just for your own information this is an opinion thread so when you say someone is stating an incorrect fact, what you really mean is that it is an opinion that differs from yours. At the end of the day HRM may not have developed rapidly in the past 50 years because the majority of residents seem to be content with that.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/HFX-TO.jpg

[worldlyhaligonian]

I think you both present valid points, but I don't think there can be a real conclusion to your discussion... lets just end this particular debate.

My question to everyone is... which area of HRM that currently has little to no development will sprout and grow the fastest?

I would put my money on the outlying areas of Dartmouth or west of Spryfield... there is soo much land!

[Empire]

I think you both present valid points, but I don't think there can be a real conclusion to your discussion... lets just end this particular debate.

My question to everyone is... which area of HRM that currently has little to no development will sprout and grow the fastest?

I would put my money on the outlying areas of Dartmouth or west of Spryfield... there is soo much land!

This area beyond Dartmouth remains undeveloped but is an ideal location.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/devarea.jpg

[Dmajackson]

^A good chunk of that land is part of the Magazine Hill DND property.

Also a line runs right through that for the 107 Extension. I believe anything west of that line would be federal or parkland.

The rest is designated by HRM to be an Urban Reserve.

EDIT: And well I hate to correct pretty much everything you said but almost all of the land is either in Bedford or Waverly.

[Empire]

Maybe some or all of the Rocky Lake quarry lands with be sold for residential or does DND have rights to that? There is also enough land north of Dart Crossing for a golf course and residential development that was part of the now dead proposed swap with Brightwood.

[Wishblade]

Maybe some or all of the Rocky Lake quarry lands with be sold for residential or does DND have rights to that? There is also enough land north of Dart Crossing for a golf course and residential development that was part of the now dead proposed swap with Brightwood.


The land north of Dartmouth Crossing is actually going to be all residential and light commercial in the not too distant future.

[Dmajackson]

The land north of Dartmouth Crossing is actually going to be all residential and light commercial in the not too distant future.

Yep and the Burnside portions are slowly being filled out as well.

The area within the 118/107 are planned out.

[Nilan8888]

Maybe some or all of the Rocky Lake quarry lands with be sold for residential or does DND have rights to that? There is also enough land north of Dart Crossing for a golf course and residential development that was part of the now dead proposed swap with Brightwood.

If memory serves me correct -- and anyone feel free to jump in here -- nobody actually wants to buy that land just yet: because in WWII / WWI it was used as a firing range for dreadnaughts, cruisers and various other naval vessels.

I don't know if it's relatively dangerous... heck I don't know if this is all urban myth or not... but presumedly anyone buying that land might be on the hook for doing a lot of safety upgrades and sweeping for old leftover ordinance.

Beyond that I don't see why the DND wouldn't want to sell the land if they don't have plans for it... but really if the above is correct I wouldn't anticipate that land getting used until the growth of the city starts to make that sort of investment worthwhile. Halifax is still, I think at the point where a developer would just look for land elsewhere instead.

Mind you, that's due to change someday.